EV Digest 4157
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Charger
by "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV-related parts at surpluscenter.com
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Charger
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) NO POLITICS
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Call GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz to protest EV1destruction
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Electric VW images
by Shawn Rutledge <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 3 phase PM-long and heading OT
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: C-Cars +: Cheap VW Bug EV's and Contactor controllers!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Wife hates smelly flooded batteries.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Any VW Bug-specific conversion videos and custom/prefab batt. racks/bp
xes?
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Idea for generic adapter kit
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: BB600 weight, was Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Datsun Minitruck Mania!
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Roderick Wilde bests ignorant law enforcers
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Electric VW images
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) EV1 Vigil - Call GM Director of Communications Chris Preuss
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) EV1 Vigil - GM shareholders need to write and phone in
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV1 Vigil - GM shareholders need to write and phone in
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) EV1 Vigil - Why the last ditch effort?
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Here is some more info on my on going puzzle with the new batteries and the
lack of a full charge.
I spoke with the owner of K&W, a very nice guy. I may have to send the
charger back to K&W. However, I did open the charger up to check to see if
the resistor loose or the wrong size. The resistor is so small I can barely
tell what the colors are. (I guess I need in
glasses.)
My wife told me that the garage smelled like rotten eggs when I had the
charger on. ( I guess I need a new nose.)
I checked the voltage of each battery. The 8 in the rear closest to the
charger all registered 12.9 volts. The 2 in the front registered 13.6 volts.
I checked the water level of the batteries. I found that two of the
batteries were not dry but took a lot of water. All told I used over a
gallon of water to fill all 10 of the batteries.
I put the charger back on while I did yard work and watched it closely, the
amps dropped to below 5 after about an hour and remained low. I'm going to
unplug the charger for the night and plug it back in when morning rolls
around so I can keep watching the amps.
Thanks for the input
Joe
Ps I got a digital camera so I can share some pics if any one is interested
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Claudio, Todd has been out of business for several years. Go to
http://store.solar-electric.com/bach1.html and order the Iota DLS-30.
This is a very similar product and of high quality for less money. $147.00.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
Hello all,
I'm looking for a "turn-key" DC/DC converter; input of 120-144V nominal
(final system voltage not yet determined); circa 300 Watts; to be used in
parallel with a small SLI accessory battery.
When I started planning this conversion I remember thinking that the Todd
would be a nice fit, but they don't seem to be available anywhere (no
longer being built?). There is a Sevcon that looks like a suitable
alternative, but I'm baulking at the ~$600US sticker price.
Any idea where one can still pickup a Todd? Or other similarly priced
alternatives that fit the above specs?
Cheers,
Claudio
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where / How do we get a catalog?
Mike G.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you don't get the hardcopy version of the Surplus Center's catalog, there
were some things listees may find useful:
11-2337 Curtis 48V contactor $13.95 - 100A continuous duty
11-2538 Hawker SBS 39Ah battery $29.95 - 7-15/16 x 6-3/4 x 6-3/4
11-2532 Hawker SBS 92Ah battery $74.95 - 15-1/2 x 4-1/8 x 10-1/2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> John Wayland wrote:
>
> >a 13 inch, 3 foot long series wound motor
>
> I can understand a larger diameter motor being able to make torque.
> But what does having the motor 3 feet long do? Like how does it make
> it better or more powerful?
First, I need to correct that information that was based on my memory of the
last time I
saw the motor. I'm in Bend today, and have delivered the Zombie's twin motor
setup to Jim,
where we planned the mods together.
The monster motor slated for Purple Phaze is still HUGE and still 13 inches in
diameter,
but not the three feet long I estimated at...it just looks that way, I guess.
It's
actually about 24 inches long, so I was off by a third on that figure...sorry.
It's a very
good thing that it isn't three feet long, as it would not have fit between the
rear wall
of the cab and the input pinion of the Ford nine inch diff. At 24 inches long,
there's
barely enough room for a stub type driveshaft...the only saving grace there, is
that this
motor has a beefy splined shaft, so the driveline slip joint female spline
will slide
right onto the shaft. The driveline in short, will be short, and will consist
of the
female slip joint welded (or machined) right to the U joint that mates the
pinion input.
As to "what does having the motor ...long do...how does it make it better or
more
powerful?", the answer is simple. The longer the armature is for a given
diameter, the
more windings around laminated metal, thus stronger magnetic field strength.
As an example, the ADC 'XP1263' 8 inch motor is the same diameter and size as a
standard
ADC 8 inch motor, but has more torque per amp than the stocker, due to
different com bar
counts and different field and armature windings. However, the
s-t-r-e-t-c-h-e-d ADC
'XP1227' 8 inch motor, produces way more power than it's otherwise clone
brother the
'XP1263' only because the center section of the motor is longer, thus larger
field coils
and a longer armature to interact with them.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
.
I put the charger back on while I did yard work and watched it closely, the
amps dropped to below 5 after about an hour and remained low. I'm going to
unplug the charger for the night and plug it back in when morning rolls
around so I can keep watching the amps.
sounds like you may be over charging so much that the voltage is going down
while charging because the batteries are getting hot. , , this is called
thermal runaway , try checking the batteries for heat .
steve clunn
Thanks for the input
Joe
Ps I got a digital camera so I can share some pics if any one is interested
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Greetings all from the EV1 Vigil!
A very long day 17... and we know many of you have been wanting an update-
One enclosed transport truck arrived in Burbank Friday morning at approximately
10:40am. It loaded 5-7 EV1s with a group of vigilers observing, several police
officers monitoring the situation, and several GM employees engaging in various
activies from cordially conversing with the vigilers or observing the
activities to being very antogonistic and trying to grab cameras, etc. We'd
like to point out that our experience so far with the employees inside the
building has generally been peaceful, but such was not entirely the case
yesterday.
After loading, the transport truck proceeded to the 5 South, where it scraped
its right rear wheels on the cement pylons getting on the on ramp, flattening
the tires and damaging the rims. It spent the next 6 hours on the freeway
waiting for help. The vigil was also franchised to the corner of Western and
Lake Blvds., where the truck was monitored- no internet connection there, hence
no updates before now.
Understanding the Pilot drivers are in a very bad position in this overall
situation, we understand that someone did try to befriend the driver with a
snack and a beverage, but it was "politely declined".
At 6pm the truck was repaired and proceeded on its way. 2 vigilers tracked the
truck to Cabazon (near Palm Springs), well past the San Bernadino railhead
where the vehicles would have been put on a train back to Michigan if indeed
they were gong to be reconditioned for museum placement. It's very apparent (to
us at least), that these cars were headed to Mesa- and, despite our current
offer to purchase the vehicles (which has so far gone unanswered) will be
crushed.
Dave Barthmuss was quoted in the Santa Monica Mirror on Thursday as stating
"the vehicles are being recycled... they are not being crushed." The attached
picture (thank you Ken Adelman!) proves otherwise- they are very clearly
crushed EV1s- to have done this to such an environmental vehicle is barbaric.
To have done it with such arrogance without so much as a response to our $1.9
million dollar offer to purchase these vehicles is arrogant. And, to make such
careless decisions without regard to consumer desire nor public interest is
obscene.
But then again, many decisions made over the course of the EV1 program have
been incomprehensible to us.
We would like to once again thank Dana Bartholomew from the Daily News for
coming out to cover the removal of our beloved cars. You can check out his
update at
http://www.dailynews.com/Stories/0,1413,200%257E20954%257E2745718,00.html
And we understand (from an internal GM source) that Bob Lutz (Vice Chairman of
GM) is to thank for the removal order. You may consult with him by emailing
[EMAIL PROTECTED] or calling (313) 556-5000.
Looking forward to seeing you out here,
the EV1 Vigilers
Visit the new "Save the EV1" site at http://www.saveev1.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a note to remind list members that partisan politics is NOT to be
discussed on this list. For the sake of peace, please stick to the charter
subjects. Read the charter here:
http://www.evdl.org/help/
General on-topic reference to government policy as it applies to EVs is
acceptable if calmly and tastefully done. Partisan politics, and praise or
condemnation of specific political figures or parties, are not.
Thanks.
News is what somebody somewhere doesn't want you to know.
Everything else is just publicity.
-- Lord North
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
This is an opt-in mailing list for underreported news. Your progressive
friends are welcome to join. Have them email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Call GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz to protest the removal of the last EV1s to the
crusher.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(313) 556-5000
Let's flood his email and voice message system.
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well it goes to show there isn't a problem fitting a motor behind the
transaxle, right? (Or did this car require a lot of mods to make it
possible?) So it seems to me that the belt drive that cheap kit uses
is a bit suboptimal, but I suppose the idea was to get the additional
mechanical advantage by using different sized pulleys.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With all this talk lately of converting older VW's to electric;
> here's
> a couple images for reference, and perspective.
>
> Motor:
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/band1999/bm16.jpg
>
> Hood/trunk:
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/band1999/bm18.jpg
>
>
. _______ Shawn T. Rutledge / KB7PWD [EMAIL PROTECTED]
(_ | |_) http://ecloud.org/ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
__) | | \______________________________________________
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 Mar 2005 at 21:08, Jack Knopf wrote:
> James, try this, make a controller by using stainless steel plates slowly
> dipped into a salt water solution.
EVs are supposed to be zero emission vehicles. With this device, you're
making chlorine gas, a deadly poison. I may be over-reacting, but I'm not
sure I see how any quantity of chlorine is better than carbon monoxide from
a gross-polluter gas car.
News is what somebody somewhere doesn't want you to know.
Everything else is just publicity.
-- Lord North
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
This is an opt-in mailing list for underreported news. Your progressive
friends are welcome to join. Have them email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Raymond Knight wrote:
> testing using my new test bench... 55amps at 2000rpm at 13.2volts.
Great information, Raymond! It is amazingly hard to find fully specified
test data any more unless you measure it yourself.
> There is a major trend going on like what Thermodyne did. I hate
> to say it but it is becoming the norm with starters/alternators and
> batteries. I look at it as the new school way of doing business.
> Where handshakes mean nothing, you will be told what ever you need
> to hear to make the sale, and there is tons of fine print involved.
We are seeing the extreme application of the principles in that old
classic text "How To Lie With Statistics". Rig the tests to produce the
highest possible numbers; never mind that they no longer mean anything
-- the customer is too stupid to know the difference, and too lazy to
test anything for himself.
> But since the ISO9000 crap came along, I have been thinking of
> changing it as they are busily ruining the thought.
ISO-9000 is a good idea, but it gets spin-doctored to produce bad
results. Basically, ISO-9000 just says you document your proceedures,
and have methods to be sure you are actually meeting them. That's a good
thing! But too many companies have then said "our proceedures are to
cheat our customers", and they establish methods of doing business to
insure that they do so. Voila -- they are "ISO-9000"!
> As for real world tests, I am all for it. Some of it I know off
> hand, some of it I might know by a different phrase, and some it
> I won't have a clue how to do.
A key part of "fighting back" is to devise simple, hard-to-fool tests
that anyone can do themselves. With an alternator, it isn't hard to
connect it to a good battery, an honest ammeter, and spin it with a
120vac AC motor that basically runs at constant speed. Then you'll know
which alternator in fact delivers on its promises, at least under those
test conditions.
> Performance curves such as efficiency I cannot do.
What spins the alternator on the test stand? An electric motor? If so,
then you can put an AC wattmeter on that motor to track how much power
goes in, and compare this to the power coming out. Then all you need to
know is the efficiency of the motor. What's left is the alternator's
efficiency.
Many years ago, when I first started playing with AC drives, I built my
own test stand like this. I used a Reliance Electric 240vac 60hz 1.4hp
blower motor for which I had the actual published efficiency curves. For
example, suppose 13.2v x 45a = 600 watts out takes 1000 watts AC in.
Overall efficiency is 600w/1000w = 60%. That is the motor's efficiency
times the alternator's efficiency. The motor's curves show it is 80%
efficient at 1000w, so the alternator is 75% efficient (because 0.8 x
0.75 = 0.6).
> Which brings up a question from me, how do I test the internal
> resistance of a battery?
Rinternal = (V1 - V2) / (I1 - I2). This means you measure the battery
voltage and current at two different points V1 and I1, V2 and I2. Divide
the voltage difference (V1-V2) by the current difference (I1-I2) to get
internal resistance.
You actually have a pretty good setup to measure internal resistance
during charging. This will be somewhat different than battery internal
resistance under load. However, it is "close enough" as long as the
battery is not near fully charged or fully discharged. Internal
resistance varies so drastically depending on temperature, state of
charge, age of battery, etc. that small variations are not relevant.
> About the pulley ratios. Correct me if I am wrong here...
You are mixing up horsepower with torque and speed. If the alternator
has an internal regulator, it will try to deliver the same electrical
power output (watts) regardless of how fast you spin it. If you spin it
faster, it requires less torque. But since mechanical horsepower =
torque x speed, the horsepower remains "about" the same.
There will be variations, though, because the alternator's efficiency
changes with rpm, the internal regulator is far from perfect, and the
belt and pulleys (or whatever system is driving the alternator) has its
own efficiency versus speed curves.
When I was testing ordinary automobile alternators, I found that their
basic efficiency was pretty low; rarely over 60%. I also found that the
usual v-belt was throwing away another 10-20% of the power, so the
resulting overall efficiency is not likely to be over 50%. Pretty
dismal. You have to *work* to get efficiency this bad! (that's a pun).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Chancey wrote:
> While contactor controllers can work, conditions may put them at
> a strong disadvantage. C-Cars were designed in Florida and are
> very functional on the flat terrain found there. Put them in hilly
> terrain and problems appear...
That's for sure! :-)
Of course, the real problem is that the C-Cars were poorly designed.
They were cheaply produced in a hurry by a tiny company with no EV
experience. They made a lot of mistakes (and don't we all!)
Mistakes aren't bad as long as you learn from them. What's important is
to learn the *right* lessons. Mark Twain said that a cat that gets
burned once on a hot stove will never sit near a hot stove again. But he
won't sit near a warm stove, either.
In the case of the CitiCars, you had a fixed-ratio transmission (geared
for flat terrain), an undersized motor (basically designed for a golf
cart that weighed half as much), a contactor controller (no current
limiting), inexperienced drivers, and no instrumentation so they
couldn't tell what they were doing was wrong. The end result is lots of
failures!
It would be a mistake to blame all the failures on the contactor
controller. And, replacing it with a PWM controller won't solve all the
problems. It won't fix the gear ratio, so it takes just as much current
to climb a hill. The motor is still too small, and the brush pigtails
will still burn out from the excessive current, whether it is delivered
from a contactor or controller.
A wimpy Curtis controller limits the motor current to protect against
driver error (so the motor lasts longer); but then your accelleration
and hillclimbing is even worse. A high-power controller that can match
the current of the contactor controller will simply burn out the
pigtails just as fast.
> Obviously a better designed contactor controller installed in an EV
> with a multi speed transmission probably would have worked just fine
Ok; let's look at the *last* vehicle of the C-Car lineup; the ComutaVan.
What did they learn?
- It has a 3-speed transmission (no clutch). Now you can pick the
right gear ratio needed to climb hills, accellerate faster, and
reach higher top speeds.
- Same old contactor controller, but with better grade industrial
contactors, not the undersized golf cart parts.
- The main contactor has an RC "snubber", to greatly reduce arcing
and increase contact life.
- The starting resistor was far more robust, and could tolerate
over 1 minute in-circuit without failure.
- The motor is a robust 11hp GE motor, with huge brushes and pigtails.
- The motor had an external blower for cooling, instead of depending
on an internal fan.
- An overcurrent circuit breaker was added.
- Ammeter and battery state-of-charge meters were added, so you could
tell what you were doing.
- A motor overtemp warning light was added.
- A circuit prevented the series/parallel contactor from switching
to series until the motor was up to a minimum speed.
There were many other improvements in brakes, steering, suspension, etc.
but the above are the important ones in getting the drive train to
survive.
In my experience, these changes made a weak unreliable drive train into
a solid, reliable one. But they cost more.
> Perhaps a contactor controller with more steps would have helped,
> but the more steps the more complex things get.
I wish we had more examples of antique EVs to look at. Their designers
did a masterful job of perfecting contactor controllers. They *had* to
-- what other choice was there? :-)
What amazes me is how smooth and quiet and reliable they were. I have
seen many examples of these antiques that still work as well as ever
today, nearly 100 years old!
Last year I looked at a 1902 Baker Electric. It still has its stock
contactor controller. It has a sophisticated compound-wound motor with
both series and shunt fields, regenerative braking, electrical reverse,
and no transmission. The owner wanted me to look into replacing it with
a modern PWM. I talked to Curtis, Sevcon, etc. and was surprised to find
that they didn't have a controller that was as capable as the stock
setup!
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I get that "battery smell" at the end of charge with my flooded pack.
> Is there any health problem or safety problem when charging in the
> garage at street level.
It's not dangerous per se. What you smell is from small amounts of
hydrogen, sulfuric acid mist, traces of hydrogen sulfide, etc. Pretty
much the same thing you smell around a hot spring, and people go there
for its "natural healing properties" :-)
Of course a vent fan will get rid of it. It can be pretty small and
quiet; you don't need anything like a bathroom fan. A properly charging
set of batteries just doesn't produce very much gas.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have only driven EV1s a few hundred miles (thanks to evrentals),
what a great car, it's a shame there aren't 100,000 of these cars.
Anyway, I realize this is armchair quarterbacking at its finest, and
that it is easy to suggest to others how to spend their money.
The real magic of the EV1 was aerodynamics. Everything else can be
replicated with off-the-shelf components.
A fraction of $1.9M would hire shops (like American Hotrod, Rod
Wilde, Rev. Gadget, etc.) to make a copy. With that many $$ in
orders, perhaps Solectria would build Sunrises (comparable to EV1
performance) for a reasonable price.
http://www.factoryfive.com sells cobra kits for around $12k. The kit
plus a donor Mustang can be built well under $20k. Wouldn't it be a
cool car to adapt a fiberglass copy of an EV1 to one of these chassis
electrified.
Another fine option could be http://www.commutercars.com.
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>... clearly crushed EV1s- to have done this to
> such an environmental vehicle is barbaric. To have done it with
> such arrogance without so much as a response to our $1.9 million
> dollar offer to purchase these vehicles is arrogant. And, to make
> such careless decisions without regard to consumer desire nor
> public interest is obscene.
> ...
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anyone have a conversion video of an older VW Bug/Beetle? Yes I've checked out
all the EV photo album pics. It would be great to locate a source for custom
battery racks or boxes too.
Mark Freidberg
______________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I guess it depends. If you're going to be cheaper than the other adapter
makers, then I'd say go for the popular makes first: Chevy S-10, Ford
Ranger, Honda Civic, VW Type 1, etc. If you're going to be the same price
as everybody else, then consider the above, but consider also other low-cost
vehicles that kits aren't already available for: Saturn Ion, older Honda
Accord, Chevy Aveo, Scion xA and xB, Kia, Mazda 3, etc.
In my case, I will base my first conversion partly on whatever adapter is
cheapest. That's just the kind of budget I will be dealing with.
Tim
----------
> > Date: Fri, 04 Mar 2005 17:51:51 -0800
> From: Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Subject: RE: Idea for generic adapter kit
>
> Ok, time to let the cat out of the bag. and my first progress report on
> the 300VZX
> I am currently working on something similar. Maybe not generic, but
> least common denominator where differences are confined to 1 part whose
> cost doesn't differ when the design changes, Castings have that problem
> sometimes, and sand castings have to be machined anyway....
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try http://www.amplepower.com/products/chrg/index.html.
They make an AC input product that looks a lot like a Todd. I have not tried
one to see if it acts like a Todd but I talked to the design engineer and it
seems to have the same properties as a Todd.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 4:40 PM
Subject: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
>
> Hello all,
>
> I'm looking for a "turn-key" DC/DC converter; input of 120-144V nominal
(final system voltage not yet determined); circa 300 Watts; to be used in
parallel with a small SLI accessory battery.
>
> When I started planning this conversion I remember thinking that the Todd
would be a nice fit, but they don't seem to be available anywhere (no longer
being built?). There is a Sevcon that looks like a suitable alternative, but
I'm baulking at the ~$600US sticker price.
>
> Any idea where one can still pickup a Todd? Or other similarly priced
alternatives that fit the above specs?
>
> Cheers,
> Claudio
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wrong correction to the right answer. You missed the part about "Two
Strings".
ONE 300V string of 1.2V batteries = 250 batteris
TWO 300V strings of 1.2V batteries = 250 X 2 = 500 batteries.
500 batteries x 3.5 lbs = 1750 lbs.
Assuming the batteris are 3.4 lbs then it becomes
3.4 x 500 = 1700 lbs
The math is really quite simple.
> Wrong answer. 3.4 pounds and 360v would be 300 batteries. About 1050
> pounds. Lawrence Rhodes........
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 7:57 AM
> Subject: BB600 weight, was Re: 914EV on ebay,, ooooo
>
>
>> Though I don't have first hand knowledge, I've been told that the BB600
>> nicads are 3.5 pounds each. At 1.2V each, 300V and two strings would
>> mean 500 batteries, meaning 1750lbs. Probably a lot for a tiny two
>> seater...(?)
>>
>> Does anyone have more accurate information on the weight of these cells?
>>
>>
>> --chris
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Peter VanDerWal said:
>>>> All that said, I am currently drooling over the AC version of the
>>>> VoltsPorsche on ElectroAuto's site. I wonder what a 914 would do with
>>>> a
>>>> 100kw AC motor, regen, and two strings of BB600 NiCDs at 300 volts
>>>> (80ah). Mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.......
>>>
>>> Could you get two 300V strings of BB600s in a 914?
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> John Wayland wrote:
>
>>a 13 inch, 3 foot long series wound motor
>
>
> I can understand a larger diameter motor being able to make torque.
> But what does having the motor 3 feet long do? Like how does it make
> it better or more powerful?
>
>
TO get more torque you can go with EITHER larger diameter or longer length
(or both)
Large diamter is obvious since it gives you more leverage. However longer
length works to because you have a larger "area" to push against.
Think of it like this, it's like putting two 18 inch motors back to back,
you get twice as much torque.
Of course this assumes you insert enough power to produce the desired
results, there's no free launch. (bad pun)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:12 PM -0800 3-5-05, David Dymaxion wrote:
I have only driven EV1s a few hundred miles (thanks to evrentals),
what a great car, it's a shame there aren't 100,000 of these cars.
Anyway, I realize this is armchair quarterbacking at its finest, and
that it is easy to suggest to others how to spend their money.
The real magic of the EV1 was aerodynamics. Everything else can be
replicated with off-the-shelf components.
I also enjoyed the EV-1 the few times I drove one. It has the usual
user interface problems that all GM cars have, but the EV part and
efficient design was very nice.
One trip in particular involved taking a date to the beach and some
remote mountain roads to a great restaurant that I could never reach
in a lead acid powered conversion. Sure was fun! I came home with
better than 40% capacity left in the Nimh pack.
Maybe have a look at the Honda Insight. I've think it's pretty much
as good as a EV-1 for a conversion platform. Plus you can buy one new
still.
I have not compared frontal CDA numbers for both, I think it would be
an interesting comparison. Now there are a couple cars that would be
great in the EV calculator!
Lets see, a quick webs search gets this:
The EV-1 numbers are 0.19 Cd and 1.89 sq.m for a CDA of 0.359.
Insight numbers of 0.25 and 1.9 sq for a CdA of 0.475.
Shucks it's not as close as I thought. I had always assumed the EV-1
was larger outside than the Insight, I guess I was wrong..
Still, I think the Insight has the potential for a very efficient EV.
Interesting table of top CD numbers here:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/aero/tech_aero.htm
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just a quick note to let you know that we just posted a great story
about Rod going head to head with local law enforcement on the legality
of PEVs on the road. This is a great example of what knowledge,
persistance, and a little calculated belligerence can accomplish.
Way to go Rod!
Here is the direct link. No registration required.
http://tinyurl.com/667bd
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Shawn Rutledge" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Electric VW images
Well it goes to show there isn't a problem fitting a motor behind the
transaxle, right? (Or did this car require a lot of mods to make it
possible?) So it seems to me that the belt drive that cheap kit uses
is a bit suboptimal, but I suppose the idea was to get the additional
mechanical advantage by using different sized pulleys.
except the vw tranny would give you this , I would think in the gears it has
, 1 st is pretty low .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well I was concerned about this too so I asked some chemical engineers and
got conflicting data. My first test was in a VW bug that I converted in a
weekend and the controller was in the passenger seat right beside me and I
was lowering the plates by hand into the salt water and driving around.
Still here, so guess it does not produce that much chlorine. In my Berkeley
the contorller is controlled by the gas pedal and is in the motor
compartment. The chemical engineers also said that there were ways around
the Chlorine by using a different electrolyte. I have yet to experiment with
this. Wouldn't the gas produced by charging all of the batteries for ev's be
just as harmful to the enviorment? I have much to learn on the chemical side
of things. What I do know is that I have a workable ev which I never would
if I waited to buy an off the shelf controller. Also I intend to let a
contactor take over once acceleration is done so it won't be producing
Chlorine at all times. Yesterday I started conversion on a 2000 Kia Sephia,
looks like it will work out really good, Later, Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
On 3 Mar 2005 at 21:08, Jack Knopf wrote:
James, try this, make a controller by using stainless steel plates slowly
dipped into a salt water solution.
EVs are supposed to be zero emission vehicles. With this device, you're
making chlorine gas, a deadly poison. I may be over-reacting, but I'm not
sure I see how any quantity of chlorine is better than carbon monoxide
from
a gross-polluter gas car.
News is what somebody somewhere doesn't want you to know.
Everything else is just publicity.
-- Lord North
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
This is an opt-in mailing list for underreported news. Your progressive
friends are welcome to join. Have them email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's flood Mr Preus voice mail so when he returns to work on Monday his
messages will be filled with support for the EV-1
Chris Preuss, Director of GM Communication, Washington DC.
(202) 775-5008
Thanks
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Peter for the suggestion for a snail mail campaign. I've asked Chelsea
if she could get snail mail adresses to the contact information I've provided.
GM says what they are doing is in the interest of the shareholders. We need to
get the shareholders to start writing in NOW to save the rest of the EV1s. If
you own shares in GM or have a Mutual Fund that has shares of GM stock please
email or phone in.
Thanks
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just email me the addresses and I will pass the info onto the Triangle
Electric Auto Association. If you can't get hold of bright colored
envelopes from Staples or Office Max or Depot, you might want to suggest
colored Christmas/Holiday card envelopes.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 9:02 AM
Subject: EV1 Vigil - GM shareholders need to write and phone in
Thanks Peter for the suggestion for a snail mail campaign. I've asked
Chelsea if she could get snail mail adresses to the contact information I've
provided.
GM says what they are doing is in the interest of the shareholders. We need
to get the shareholders to start writing in NOW to save the rest of the
EV1s. If you own shares in GM or have a Mutual Fund that has shares of GM
stock please email or phone in.
Thanks
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why the last ditch effort? Because it is important for the EV movement.
Speaking of ditches the truck that carried off the first 6 EV-1s to AZ for
crushing ended up in a ditch this past weekend. It took six hours to extricate
it. Is it a sign from the EV Gods?
In the past 3 weeks our efforts have made the following the following news
outlets
Los Angeles Daily News
LA Times/Burbank Leader
Motor Trend
Boston Herald
KCRW
KTLA
NBC 4 Los Angeles
KNX
KABC
EV World:
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&newsid=7766
and others . . .
And two EV1 Vigil Websites have been established:
www.ev1.org
www.SaveEV1.org
Although it seems GM isn't listening its important for the public to know what
is going on:
During the 3 weeks of the vigil, $1.8 million in orders were taken for the EV-1
by the vigilers.
Many of the vigilers are former GM employees who worked on the EV-1. There are
many at GM who love the car. It's the corporate wing-dings and some mid-level
managers who want to kill it. Some for personal reasons, others because it
pulls resources from their other programs and because the technology is a
threat or disruptive technology.
Jay Leno offered $1 million for the car but was refused by GM.
The lead designer for Hot Wheels loved the car the month he had it. He wanted
to do a die cast version but GM refused to license the EV-1 for use as a toy. A
lost opportunity to promote the EV-1.
GM has spent $400 million fighting EVs and the mandate. That's almost half of
the $1 billion they spent developing the EV1.
When GM built the EV-1 assembly line it was only designed to handle 9000 units
per year. That doesn't sound like a firm commitment to build the car in mass
numbers. All their efforts on the EV-1 were self defeating. Now that line is
being used for production of the Chevy SSR which GM won't acknowledge is moving
slower then expected.
As oil prices rise sales of their multitude of SUVs will stagnate. Meanwhile
the solution to bail themselves out will be rotting away in the AZ sun.
Hydrogen is "look over there technology". It won't bail GM out short term or
even long term.
The US Govt won't be there to bail GM out when SUV sales start to falter and
oil prices shoot up towards $100 per barrel. The Feds are already in deep hoc
with the deficit. There won't be any money left to help bail GM out like they
did for Chrysler.
Toyota is ramping up hybird technology to 140,000 units per year. The Prius is
in its 3rd generation and Toyota expects ALL of its models to have a hybrid
version within the next couple years. All GM has is a Sierra hybrid pickup
truck with lackluster performance and technical issues. They are way behind. GM
blames it on EV-1 development but that is a cop out.
GM is refusing to acknowlege Ford's turnabout on crushing the last of their
Ranger EVs and the Th!nks. Ford's turnabout is a positive role models for
consumers.
These are reasons for the last ditch effort to save the remaining EV-1s. The
more the public knows the better.
Thanks
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
--- End Message ---
