EV Digest 4158
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Call GM Vice Chairman Bob Lutz to protest EV1destruction
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Idea for generic adapter kit
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Las Vegas NEDRA Wicked Watts Head Count
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Insight on the EV Calculator, was Re: GM Starts Hauling Away the
First of 78 EV1s
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: EV1 Vigil - Call GM Director of Communications Chris Preuss
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Las Vegas NEDRA Wicked Watts Head Count
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Fwd: EV1 Vigil - Call GM Director of Communications Chris Preuss
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Roderick Wilde bests ignorant law enforcers
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Las Vegas NEDRA Wicked Watts Head Count
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Charger
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Candidate for conversion.
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) AC 1/4 mile estimations
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) TIG welding using an alternator
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: TIG welding using an alternator
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: GM Starts Hauling Away the First of 78 EV1s
by "Dave Davidson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) 0-10V controller input?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: NEDRA Wicked Watts April 9 . . . An Event Update
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) RE: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Iota DLS series
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) PM w/ separate lead for each brush?
by Michael Shipway <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: C-Cars AXE? controller
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: one-piece drive assemblies
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Just a side note...When my kids were small, we had a vaporizer in their room
that used salt water. The more salt, the more vapor. For electrodes, it had
sacrificial carbon rods. I never thought about chlorine gas.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 5:00 AM
Subject: Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
Well I was concerned about this too so I asked some chemical engineers and
got conflicting data. My first test was in a VW bug that I converted in a
weekend and the controller was in the passenger seat right beside me and I
was lowering the plates by hand into the salt water and driving around.
Still here, so guess it does not produce that much chlorine. In my
Berkeley the contorller is controlled by the gas pedal and is in the motor
compartment. The chemical engineers also said that there were ways around
the Chlorine by using a different electrolyte. I have yet to experiment
with this. Wouldn't the gas produced by charging all of the batteries for
ev's be just as harmful to the enviorment? I have much to learn on the
chemical side of things. What I do know is that I have a workable ev which
I never would if I waited to buy an off the shelf controller. Also I
intend to let a contactor take over once acceleration is done so it won't
be producing Chlorine at all times. Yesterday I started conversion on a
2000 Kia Sephia, looks like it will work out really good, Later, Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 11:44 PM
Subject: Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and
CAREFUL!!!!!
On 3 Mar 2005 at 21:08, Jack Knopf wrote:
James, try this, make a controller by using stainless steel plates
slowly
dipped into a salt water solution.
EVs are supposed to be zero emission vehicles. With this device, you're
making chlorine gas, a deadly poison. I may be over-reacting, but I'm
not
sure I see how any quantity of chlorine is better than carbon monoxide
from
a gross-polluter gas car.
News is what somebody somewhere doesn't want you to know.
Everything else is just publicity.
-- Lord North
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
This is an opt-in mailing list for underreported news. Your progressive
friends are welcome to join. Have them email me at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
(MY tow Cents...)
Dear Mr. Lutz:
I see the economics behind your decision. Quite clearly. No matter how
complex or expensive H2 Fuel Cell vehicles become, at least you will
have a captive market for H2, and the alliance between the Petro.
industry and the Auto Industry will go on for another 100 years.
I also understand that it would have been possible to work around the
liability issues (parts/support/service) which apply to letting EV1
leases to keep/buy/or extend their ownership. If Ford Motor Co. found a
way, I am sure you could have.
If in the long stretch of history, this leaves General Motors looking
poorly in the eyes of the world, ...well so be it.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
FORMER GM Dealer for 45 YEARS
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hate the word cheaper, for some people it is kinda dimensionless.
Lets say better value.
I think makeing existing adapters is a secondary goal, I want to grow
our options.
Some of our(EV Proponents) customer base may be like me. I own 2 cars
over 130,000 miles and am tired of oil changes and smog and want to help
the environment and don't see OEM's changing unless we force them, Id
rather compete with them. I live in a valley and have breathing
difficulties. I live in Fresno but cant get the image on MetricMind's
site out of my head.
I want to make quality adapters at great prices. I plan on starting out
with very little profit margin to get things rolling. The big problem is
that coming up with the common dimensions without up front dimensions is
not possible, I will probably end up with more than one motor bell in
the long run, like cars with 10" or greater clutches and cars < 10"
clutches. Even though I would standardise on a SBC button flywheel and a
tilton or quartermaster clutch to keep diameter and rotating mass down,
Transmisions that had < 10" clutches may fall inside the 11" hole I
currently have in the adapter plate design. no place for tranny bolts
:-( Maybe smalll, medium, generally to big for an EV anyway.
Another think I didn't mention was the plate mounts to the tranny and
hopefully to isolation mounts on the frame, the motor bell and clutch
can be installed and removed without pulling the tranny. The motor will
still be stabilized to the stock motor mounts to prevent undue stress on
speedbumps etc. Fresno is totally nuts about speed bumps.
Why do I think I have anything to offer??? I have been working as a
mold maker (and every other job) in a Plastics company for 25+ years
and I have a lot of contacts I didn't even realize. CNC shops are hungry
in this area, Partialy because of the seasonality of the work that
remains. I can make a prototype, small scale production, or molds to
make die cast, what ever. I was actually going to hold off mentioning to
the list until I got the ball rolling a little better but as the topic
came up, I thought what the heck. I guess only time will tell.
I have heard "Select a donor you want to drive" and variations on
that a lot I want to enable that statement a little more,
<snide humor>
Let me ask you, Do you want an S10?
we already have manufactures telling us what we want, instead of giving
us options to choose
</snide humor>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.0 - Release Date: 3/2/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey everyone,
There's been a lot of discussion about NEDRA classes lately but now its time
to start doing some racing!
Our NEDRA Season opener will be at Las Vegas April 9. Just a month away.
We need a head count of who is going.
Please respond to Stan Hanel, Richard Furniss or myself if you plan to race
or visit.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
So dust off those battery caps and get on out to Las Vegas April 9.
Chip Gribben
NEDRA hat on
http://www.nedra.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< I have not compared frontal CDA numbers for both, I think it would be
an interesting comparison. Now there are a couple cars that would be
great in the EV calculator!
Lets see, a quick webs search gets this:
The EV-1 numbers are 0.19 Cd and 1.89 sq.m for a CDA of 0.359.
Insight numbers of 0.25 and 1.9 sq for a CdA of 0.475.
Shucks it's not as close as I thought. I had always assumed the EV-1
was larger outside than the Insight, I guess I was wrong..
Still, I think the Insight has the potential for a very efficient EV. >>
Hey, Ot, can you say "done"! I just added the Insight to the dropdown vehicle
list, but sorry, no EV1 entry.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave wrote:
>
> Just a side note...When my kids were small, we had a vaporizer in their room
> that used salt water. The more salt, the more vapor. For electrodes, it had
> sacrificial carbon rods. I never thought about chlorine gas.
If you run *AC* current thru the electrodes, all you have is a resistor.
All the electrical energy is converted to heat; none to gas. The water
gets hot, steams, and you have your water vapor. But no chlorine or
other gases. It's completely safe.
If you run *DC* current thru the electrodes, you have a resistor *plus*
a gas generator. If it is just pure water, the DC current will pull
apart the water molecules at each electrode. Oxygen gas bubbles form on
one electrode, and hydrogen gas bubbles on the other. The bubbles grow
until they break free and pop up to the surface and into the air.
But water alone is a poor conductor, so you add something ionic (some
acid or base or salt). Whatever you added will carry much of the
current, and its molecules will be pulled apart at each electrode. With
salt (sodium chloride), you get metallic sodium and chlorine gas at the
two electrodes. But sodium and water immediately react to form sodium
hydroxide and hydrogen gas. So, with salt you get hydrogen and chlorine
gas.
Why no gasses with AC? Because the current keeps changing direction.
During one half cycle, microscopic gas bubbles *do* form; but it only
lasts 1/120th of a secon. In the next half cycle, the current reverses,
and the hydrogen and chlorine bubbles are converted *back* into sodium
chloride.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for that phone # Chip. I've called.
Marc Geller
San Francisco Electric Vehicle Assn.
www.sfeva.org
On Mar 6, 2005, at 5:54 AM, Chip Gribben wrote:
Let's flood Mr Preus voice mail so when he returns to work on Monday
his messages will be filled with support for the EV-1
Chris Preuss, Director of GM Communication, Washington DC.
(202) 775-5008
Thanks
Chip Gribben
Electric Vehicle Association of Washington DC
http://www.evadc.org
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
GM claims that people don't want EVs? What a crock of shit.
A poll was conducted that found over 30% of potential new
car buyers would buy an EV as their first car in the case it
were priced similarly to a gasoline car.
http://greencars.com/newsreleases/sept7.html
The Wall Street Journal reported a poll conducted by various
environmental groups found that in the state of California
alone, there was a market for at least 150,000 vehicles per
year, or 12% of the entire market for cars and light trucks,
again, assuming they were offered at affordable prices. See
The Wall Street Journal, �Californians Show Potential
Demand for Electric Cars�, by Jeffrey Ball, 09/05/2000,
page B12
So here the automakers go and tell people they don't want
the cars when they go to the dealerships and say they
do(Like what Korthof went through with his Honda EV+),
rarely or refuse to even advertise the vehicles, stonewall
the release of info pertaining to battery technology, and
lobby like hell to politicians so that they won't ever have
to sell electric cars.
Then the waiting lists. For those on the EV1, look no
further than Peter Horton's LA Times article. Los Angeles
Times. Los Angeles, Calif.: Jun 8, 2003. pg. I.30
I understand that many people and smaller businesses have
trouble selling EVs. The problem is, these people and
businesses lack money, so they are relegated to using tacky
kit cars or old chassis that people don't seem to want, even
though their conversions are top notch. If only they had
money. But if only a bullfrog had wings...
It's really in the details. Build Blue-Meanie like cars with
50-60 miles range and performance to match a musclecar?
People might start buying conversions on old chassis at a
reasonable price reflecting their cost. Maybe.
To see all these industries with a means to mass produce an
affordable EV when the environmental benefits are needed in
order to curb urban pollution, only to deny such a car
production simply due to profits, is disgusting. If they
want to keep selling cars that belch out poisonous gases,
and contribute to the estimated 50,000+ air
pollution-related premature deaths according to the American
Lung Association, maybe they should pay all the extra taxes
to make up for the cost of those damages. Might change their
tune real quick, with an estimated $5,000+ on the social
costs of air polution associated with the gasoline
automobile. Do the same with gasoline, tax it to reflect its
true social costs, to discourage its use, and you'll have a
lot more angry people seeking alternatives. Might do beter
than a mandate that certain politicians will always refuse
to enforce.
David Dymaxion wrote:
>perhaps Solectria would build Sunrises (comparable
>to EV1
>performance) for a reasonable price.
Actually, the Sunrise is more comparable in performance to a
diesel VW Bus. 0-60 MPH in an agonizing 17 seconds, 0-60 in
11? SLUG! It 'could' be made to perform like an EV1 with a
more powerful motor/inverter combo(120+ horsepower), as the
batteries could have certainly handled it. A lot of
attention to finish was needed. It looked like a 5-year old
built it, as Wayland once said. But its aerodynamics,
efficiency, and range were top notch. Duplicating these
characteristics on a muscle-type EV with all the attention
payed to aesthetics? Even as a prototype, people would be
offering to buy it on the spot. Demand would have certainly
been high. Especially with 0-60 in around 7 seconds, and
with use of a two-speed transmission for a 140+ MPH top end.
I've always fancied the concept of a hot rod type EV built
to resemble and take after the Tatra T77a. In the 1930s, it
had a .21 coefficient drag!
http://www.ltv-vwc.org.uk/W_Spin/ws_mar_2003/Tatra-history-pt1.htm
The automakers could be doing super-efficient car designs
like this. A hotrod that seats 5 or 6 and runs on batteries
could easily be made off of such a platform, with attention
payed to energy efficiency. We've had the technology for an
aero design like this for 70 goddamn years now. This sort of
design could allow for 150 miles highway range on sealed
lead acid batteries for an affordable family-sized
musclecar. With Madman's fast chargers, such a thing would
be a match made in Hell! :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gadget will be there with camera and crew. we would
like to get some footage to use in our upcoming pilot.
I'd love to know who's going.
Gadget
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hey everyone,
>
> There's been a lot of discussion about NEDRA classes
> lately but now its time
> to start doing some racing!
>
> Our NEDRA Season opener will be at Las Vegas April
> 9. Just a month away.
>
> We need a head count of who is going.
>
> Please respond to Stan Hanel, Richard Furniss or
> myself if you plan to race
> or visit.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> So dust off those battery caps and get on out to Las
> Vegas April 9.
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA hat on
> http://www.nedra.com
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't normally fwd stuff but this seemed like a good
cause. please read the attached and then send or
e-mail GM
only takes a few seconds and might save the last of
the best electric cars ever made
thanks
keith
Note: forwarded message attached.
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/--- Begin Message ---
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
--- End Message ---
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I read that article when yopu posted it on yuor forums. I
liked it quite a bit. I have my share of negative
experiences with cops in my city that aren't EV related and
far worse than this, so it puts a smile on my face to see
someone one-up law enforcement in a rational manner.
Glad to see those in the article still ride their scooters.
They're very efficient vehicles.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I won't be making the trip.
But I intend to be at Bremerton Raceways on Easter weekend. It my home town
opener... And I intend to get alot of runs in this year.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Ev" <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 8:42 AM
Subject: Las Vegas NEDRA Wicked Watts Head Count
> Hey everyone,
>
> There's been a lot of discussion about NEDRA classes lately but now its
time
> to start doing some racing!
>
> Our NEDRA Season opener will be at Las Vegas April 9. Just a month away.
>
> We need a head count of who is going.
>
> Please respond to Stan Hanel, Richard Furniss or myself if you plan to
race
> or visit.
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> So dust off those battery caps and get on out to Las Vegas April 9.
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA hat on
> http://www.nedra.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ohnojoe wrote:
> My wife told me that the garage smelled like rotten eggs when I had the
> charger on. ( I guess I need a new nose.)
"Rotten eggs" is hydrogen sulfide. This is a bad sign; you are either
drastically overcharging the batteries, or they are low on water, or at
least some are bad.
The more normal smell is the acidic "tang" of sulfuric acid, which is a
decidedly chemical smell rather like lemon or grapefruit.
> I checked the voltage of each battery. The 8 in the rear closest
> to the charger all registered 12.9 volts. The 2 in the front
> registered 13.6 volts.
It's important to know the conditions under which you measured these
voltages. The best way to measure battery voltages is to let them sit at
least 8 hours with no charging and no discharging (zero current in/out).
If you measure batteries while (or soon after) current is flowing
in/out, then the voltage is meaningless unless you know the current and
for how long it has been flowing.
> I checked the water level of the batteries. I found that two of the
> batteries were not dry but took a lot of water.
This could be where the hydrogen sulfide was coming from. Did it stop
producing it after you added the water? I hope it was distilled water.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All Contemplators,
I share Bill's words-of-wisdom every time I show people the electric S10
pickup, "Start with a gas piece of sh__, and you end up with an electric
piece of sh__!"
Dave (B.B.) Hawkins
Member of the Denver Electric Vehicle Council:
http://www.devc.org/
Card carrying member and former racer with The National Electric Drag
Racing Association:
http://www.nedra.com/
Lyons, CO
1979 Mazda RX-7 EV (192V of YT's for the teenagers)
1989 Chevy S10 Ext. Cab (144V of floodies, for Ma and Pa only!)
>Date: Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:01:53 -0700
>From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>
> Never convert a crappy car. Spend a few more bucks and get a car
>that you would be proud to drive, just as it is. You are going to spend
>thousands of dollars on conversion components and 100's of hours of your
>time doing the conversion.
>
> Spend a $1,000 or so and get a nice looking car with a blown
>motor. Otherwise, you will spend $3,000 and months of your time making the
>"bargain" car look like the car you could have had for $1,000.
>
> _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>=(___)=
> U
>Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just looking for a best guess. Be it 13's, 14's, or 16's or whatever.
Just trying to get a general idea.
For the sake of this discussion, lets go with these numbers:
'94 reg cab short bed S10
Stock curb weight ~2800lbs as per:
http://auto.consumerguide.com/Auto/Used/reviews/full/index.cfm/id/2011/act/usedcarreviewspecs/
Stout differential and 5 speed manual with drag slicks.
The Siemans 4WS24 motor for 650v
Specs:
http://www.metricmind.com/motor.htm
Elfa 650v inverter:
http://www.metricmind.com/inverter.htm
Now it being a truck and having space in the bed for lots of
batteries.. What are some 1/4 mile estimations based on these battery
counts/voltages:
Orbital batteries wired in series
30 - 360 volts
35 - 420 volts
42 - 504 volts
It seems like high voltage using 12 volt AGM batteries gets to be
extremely unwieldy in terms of weight and the space they take up..
What might the range be with that amount of batteries?
So maybe the future of AC is not exactly higher voltages, but higher
amp output? Why currently are the AC inverters output so low (amp
wise)?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you! I always wonder what they did to "make" hydrogen and oxygen. When
I worked on B-52s, they had Oxygen Generators. So making a controller with
the 2 plates and the salt water tank is only for AC?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Why bother saving factory EV's???? Cheap EV's and CAREFUL!!!!!
Dave wrote:
Just a side note...When my kids were small, we had a vaporizer in their
room
that used salt water. The more salt, the more vapor. For electrodes, it
had
sacrificial carbon rods. I never thought about chlorine gas.
If you run *AC* current thru the electrodes, all you have is a resistor.
All the electrical energy is converted to heat; none to gas. The water
gets hot, steams, and you have your water vapor. But no chlorine or
other gases. It's completely safe.
If you run *DC* current thru the electrodes, you have a resistor *plus*
a gas generator. If it is just pure water, the DC current will pull
apart the water molecules at each electrode. Oxygen gas bubbles form on
one electrode, and hydrogen gas bubbles on the other. The bubbles grow
until they break free and pop up to the surface and into the air.
But water alone is a poor conductor, so you add something ionic (some
acid or base or salt). Whatever you added will carry much of the
current, and its molecules will be pulled apart at each electrode. With
salt (sodium chloride), you get metallic sodium and chlorine gas at the
two electrodes. But sodium and water immediately react to form sodium
hydroxide and hydrogen gas. So, with salt you get hydrogen and chlorine
gas.
Why no gasses with AC? Because the current keeps changing direction.
During one half cycle, microscopic gas bubbles *do* form; but it only
lasts 1/120th of a secon. In the next half cycle, the current reverses,
and the hydrogen and chlorine bubbles are converted *back* into sodium
chloride.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
With all this talk as of late about alternators, here is a thread with
extensive talk about a particular alternator:
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8872
There used to be lots of pics, but the board crashed and the pics got lost.
Alternator in question:
http://www.alternatorparts.com/Ford_3G.htm
Since TIG welders are expensive, this might be a low cost way to weld
up battery racks or boxes. Or rent a MIG welder from Home Depot..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The way I learned to weld aluminum was with a buzz box
with a high frequency stabilizer. The buzz box being
the simplest form of ac welding machine. just a big
transformer. I bet you can find the high freqency
stabilizers cheap on ebay. You need the high frequency
to stabilize the arc and to control the penetration.
most new welders use a square wave form but sine wave
does work. It just takes more power and the torch gets
hot. There are a lot of ways to get stuff hot and
stick metal together they are just not always optimal.
I can get some incredibly beautiful shiny aluminum
welds with a symetrical AC sine wave machine, but they
are no where near the strength of the slightly matt
finish welds I get with my asymetrical square wave
machine. And they are really fast. maybe one of these
days if some of you guys want to get together in LA
and do a weekend conversion, we could do it in my shop
and maybe I could film it. I've got space, tools, and
equipment. Kinda like an old fashioned barn raising.
Gadget
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> With all this talk as of late about alternators,
> here is a thread with
> extensive talk about a particular alternator:
>
>
http://www.turbomustangs.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=8872
>
>
> There used to be lots of pics, but the board crashed
> and the pics got lost.
>
> Alternator in question:
>
> http://www.alternatorparts.com/Ford_3G.htm
>
>
> Since TIG welders are expensive, this might be a low
> cost way to weld
> up battery racks or boxes. Or rent a MIG welder
> from Home Depot..
>
>
=====
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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It may not be as bad as you first think. The Insight needs a lot of air
flowing through it for the ICE. Close up the front grill opening and add a
belly pan and the Cd should come down quite a bit. I've thought the Insight
would be an excellent start for an EV-1 clone. However, I would need more
than 2 seats to justify doing my own conversion. Has anyone done an Insight
conversion yet? Real world numbers?
Dave Davidson
Glen Burnie, Maryland
1993 Dodge TEVan
Maybe have a look at the Honda Insight. I've think it's pretty much as good
as a EV-1 for a conversion platform. Plus you can buy one new still.
I have not compared frontal CDA numbers for both, I think it would be an
interesting comparison. Now there are a couple cars that would be great in
the EV calculator!
Lets see, a quick webs search gets this:
The EV-1 numbers are 0.19 Cd and 1.89 sq.m for a CDA of 0.359.
Insight numbers of 0.25 and 1.9 sq for a CdA of 0.475.
Shucks it's not as close as I thought. I had always assumed the EV-1 was
larger outside than the Insight, I guess I was wrong..
Still, I think the Insight has the potential for a very efficient EV.
Interesting table of top CD numbers here:
http://www.autozine.org/technical_school/aero/tech_aero.htm
--
-Otmar-
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Hello all,
Was just trying to get my new Taylor Dunn cart operational. Seemed the
controller was toast. Turned on once, wouldn't turn off, then died for good.
Pulled out another Curtis out of an abandoned project. Mounting pattern the
same, wiring the same, except for the throttle input. Typical KSI input
terminal. But the Taylor Dunn has only 1 input terminal for speed control.
The replacement is a 0-5K. The input to the Taylor Dunn varies from 0-10Volts
when the pedal is pressed. Pulling apart the pedal reveals some type of fancy
pickup, either inductive or hall effect? Looks like a really nice setup, would
be nice to keep instead of hooking on a pot.
So is there a simple way to interface this high end throttle with this low end
Curtis???
Thanks folks,
Darin Gilbert
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In a message dated 3/5/05 7:51:27 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<<
I will not attend this years Strip race.I have a ADRA series race
april8th.
Dennis Berube
Dennis, how much money could you win at this ADRA bracket race?
Jim >>
Jim,Its not the money,(although I do take and cash the check)I think wining
this az.state racing series in the toughest pro class here would give Evs a lot
more respect. To answer your question theres usually a one shot takes
all so 100 entries in both classes x ten to 20 dollars well one or two
thousand.Then again depending on entries,another $500 to $2000.Second and third
also
do well in the race. Dennis Berube
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Thanks Rod and Joe,
Roderick Wilde writes:
> Claudio, Todd has been out of business for several years. Go to
> http://store.solar-electric.com/bach1.html and order the Iota DLS-30.
> This is a very similar product and of high quality for less
> money. $147.00.
Looks ok, but I had one concern: input range is listed as 108-132vac. Wouldn't
this make it unsuitable for a 120V pack? (and marginal for a 144V pack)?
[Perhaps that's the same as the Todd; the little I know of it was what I
remember from your evparts site, but I thought it had a wider input range.]
If I have a 120V pack, sagging down to 105V, does that mean I need a
power-supply capable of accepting as low as ~75vac? (I'm an AC novice, so go
easy if this is bass-akwards :-) Presumably it is also intended for stationary
applications, but I guess the same goes for the Todd.
On using switchmode battery chargers as DC/DC converters, is there anything to
look out for other than:
* bridge rectified
* acceptable input range (and under/over voltage protected)
* properly sized to expected load (and fuse protected)
Thanks again,
Claudio
(who is again wondering if he shouldn't pony up for a high quality DC/DC)
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Rod,
I'm assuming from your post that the Iota will
work with a DC input? The specs @ the Iota page
specify AC input from 108V to 132, 47 to 63HZ. I'm
looking for a DC to DC for my truck right now as well.
Thanks for the info.
TiM
'61 Corvair Rampdide
'80 Jet 007
Claudio, Todd has been out of business for several
years. Go to
http://store.solar-electric.com/bach1.html and order
the Iota DLS-30.
This is a very similar product and of high quality for
less money.
$147.00.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
__________________________________
Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
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Make sure the input rectifier is not a voltage doubler. If the input
rectifier is a full wave bridge (such as the Ample Power device) then it can
take up to 180 VDC on the input.
Call the number on the website and tell then engineer what you intend to do
with it and he can advise you on any precautions you will need to take to
make sure it lives long and works well.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 8:00 PM
Subject: RE: DC/DC: where to buy Todd?
>
> Thanks Rod and Joe,
>
> Roderick Wilde writes:
> > Claudio, Todd has been out of business for several years. Go to
> > http://store.solar-electric.com/bach1.html and order the Iota DLS-30.
> > This is a very similar product and of high quality for less
> > money. $147.00.
>
> Looks ok, but I had one concern: input range is listed as 108-132vac.
Wouldn't this make it unsuitable for a 120V pack? (and marginal for a 144V
pack)? [Perhaps that's the same as the Todd; the little I know of it was
what I remember from your evparts site, but I thought it had a wider input
range.]
>
> If I have a 120V pack, sagging down to 105V, does that mean I need a
power-supply capable of accepting as low as ~75vac? (I'm an AC novice, so go
easy if this is bass-akwards :-) Presumably it is also intended for
stationary applications, but I guess the same goes for the Todd.
>
> On using switchmode battery chargers as DC/DC converters, is there
anything to look out for other than:
> * bridge rectified
> * acceptable input range (and under/over voltage protected)
> * properly sized to expected load (and fuse protected)
>
> Thanks again,
> Claudio
> (who is again wondering if he shouldn't pony up for a high quality DC/DC)
>
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I just encountered a new thing.
A small (2 hp) DC permanent magnet(field) motor with 4 power leads, 2
red and 2 black.
I determined that each lead connected to only one of the 4 brushs, with
no internal connections between opposing brushs.
Connecting both reds to plus and both backs to minus makes the motor
spin in the direction expected, as does connecting one of each.
Question is, why are the 4 leads instead of 2?
Under what circumstances would you want to connect it differently?
Only thing I can think of is if you connect the inside red and black
together and outside red to plus, outside black to minus, you'd be
putting the armature in series with itself.
I was unwilling to try this without drawing it on paper first, or better
yet asking the list.
Mike Shipway
Puzzled...
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John,
Do you have a source for the controller you found to be a good match? I have
a C-Car that I will be getting on the road soon, was planning to start
looking for a controller. Thanks David Chapman.
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On Mar 4, 2005, at 5:22 PM, Sam Uzi wrote:
I was just wondering how common a practice it is to remove the
universal
joint from an existing drive train (transmission or other reduction
gearing, axle, joint, rear differential, wheels), and hard-mount the
tranmission and motor to the differential housing?...
If I understand your question correctly, I'd say it's a fairly common
practice. Everyone who converts an air-cooled VW and keeps the
transaxle is doing this - the rear differential is part of the
transmission, and the motor hangs right off of the end of the
transaxle. I guess most front-wheel-drive car conversions would also
qualify if you drop the "rear" qualifier from "differential housing".
these one-piece drive units could be mass-assembled in batches from
varieties of scrounged/donated/purchased components pretty
efficiently...
I'm guessing that, logically, the controller electronics should be
included in this drive unit assembly
That increases the packaging efficiency, but makes the unit larger and
less flexible. One way to do this is to develop a drop-in replacement
for a commonly-used ICE+transaxle. The electric motor is going to be
smaller for the same HP, leaving room for the controller and other
goodies like the charger and DC/DC converter. This also gives us the
opportunity to increase integration between these parts. However, I
would expect this package to be pretty expensive.
use these drive units in conversions or, for more "ground-up" EVs,
load-bearing assemblies - including non-drive wheels (if any), steering
mechanism (if any), suspention (if any), frame, rigging (if any),
passenger containment (if any), power bus/batt. pack/charger - could
then
be built from standardized/available parts to fit individual drive
units
and operational requirements...
Actually, in my opinion, the difficult part is not the drive unit.
It's the energy source, and the selection and integration of all the
components.
I was able to buy a motor and adapter and mount them in my Karmann Ghia
in an afternoon. I was lucky with the Ghia in that there are good
places to put the batteries, but I had to design and fabricate the
battery boxes myself. I'm still figuring out the right combination of
controller, charger, DC/DC converter, instrumentation, etc, and the
best way to wire everything up. Once that's all done, I'll need to
worry about tuning the brakes and suspension. Without the EV list I'd
be completely at sea.
A drop-in unit with motor, transmission, and all the electronics would
make this easier, but would still require batteries and chassis and
suspension work. It would also only work on vehicles that had the
right motor to begin with, and maybe I wouldn't like any of those cars
(as is the case with the S-10 pickup truck).
...something to keep in mind for the previously discussed non-profit
neighborhood public access EV shops, where anyone can take courses to
learn (and then practice) EV construction/conversion in a practical
environment... each course would complete the entire construction
cycle
(scrounging, prep, design, assembly test, certification) of a small
fleet
of EVs for distribution and sale... give people who complete each
course
preference (and significant discount) on purchasing vehicles from the
fleets they've built... also allow people to bring their own parts to
build up their personalized EV as one of the fleet...
This sounds great. This sort of program would have helped me
tremendously. Of course I live in a small town that's not terribly
concerned about environmental issues, so it will be some time before
such a program will be available here.
In the meantime I'm having fun and learning a lot.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
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