EV Digest 4172
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Miata Conversion. Will these components work? EV PARTS
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: 9' ADC aft mounting holes (rather, lack thereof)
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: energy density comparison
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: UPDATE - RE: (Flooded) battery shipping advice sought
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Jeep EV Update DC Converter
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Rotophase
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: washingtonpost: Fans of GM Electric Car Fight the Crusher
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) K&W BC-20 30A Fuse
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Thoughts for some sort of rally in DC
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: UPDATE - RE: (Flooded) battery shipping advice sought
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Charging Terminology
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) wind charger?
by James Jarrett <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Drexel 8855 motor
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: BB600 Purchase
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: wind charger?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Motorcycle set up ,was :potbox tolerance
by "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) BB600 charging
by "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) spoon feeding
by Carl Clifford <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: cheap ev motor
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) DCP DC/DC used with Zilla was Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: wind charger?
by "dmarks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: BB600 charging
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Spoon feeding BB600's.
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
This is losely based on Blue Meanie of a couple of years ago. I think I got
everything in that is needed. This is from EV Parts. Did I get the price
right and the right components? Did I leave anything out? Mr. Wilde I
recommended this to a friend. Am I steering him in the right direction.
LR..........
Your Shopping Cart Contains:
Click to removeImageProductPriceWeight (lb.)QtyTotal
[Remove] Circuit Breaker, Heinemann 160 VDC, 250 amp
continuous, 1000 amp peak $ 170.00 2.44$ 170.00
[Remove] Meter, Ammeter, 0-1000 amp, Use with SH2518 shunt
$
48.00 0.24$ 48.00
[Remove] Meter, Voltmeter 2", Round, 80-180 VDC $ 48.00
0.29$ 48.00
[Remove] Contactor, Kilovac EV 200 Czonka III $ 97.50
0.95$
97.50
[Remove] DC-DC Converter, Vicor MegaMod Jr., 66-160 volt
in,
12 volt out, 8.3 Amps $ 185.00 0.30$ 185.00
[Remove] Charger, PFC20, 120/240 VAC input, 12/450 VDC
output $ 1,500.00 15.50$ 1,500.00
[Remove] Zilla Z1K Controller, 72 to 156 VDC $ 1,975.00
23.00$ 1,975.00
Sub Total:$ 4,023.50
Total weight:lb. 42.72
Shipping (est):$ 28.67
Tax:$ 0.00
Total (est):$ 4,052.17
Add a motor and
motor mount
for 1500 to 2000 bucks a rev limiter and wiring. If
you used
a 156 volt system 13 batteries. (with this controller you are limited to
this voltage.) That would probably give you a 15 to 20 mile usable range.
Drive to work and charge no problem. It'd be peppy too. Probably better
than the stock Miata. The batteries would be a couple of grand maybe less
if you used Exide Orbitals. Oh yes 13 35 dollar voltage regulators. If you
got a slightly better controller that would handle more volts you could add
a few more batteries for more range and power. But this minimum system is
very good. So for around 8k you would have a very good EV. What I am
showing
you here will knock your socks off. Larry.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Here is what I would do.
>> Use a trolley jack to hold the motor/tranny in the proper position.
>> Attach the bolts at the rear of the transmission.
>> Attach the front motor mount to the car.
>> Use a grease pencil/etc. to mark the position of the front mount on the
>> motor. Probably good idea to add an index mark that goes across the
>> motor
>> onto the mount.
>
> What kind of precision is required in aligning the motor in the car?
> Is this enough? What happens if the motor goes in slightly crooked,
> will things tear themselves apart? If this is good enough, it's almost
> tempting to buy a tap and just use my cordless drill with a 3/8" bit,
> though I guess I'd need to be *very* careful I was going at it straight
> and didn't mess it up. I'd probably still take it to a machinist just
> to be sure.
Unless you are *really* good with a hand drill and tap, it's easy to get
the hole drilled at an angle or out of round. Even if you get the whole
right, it's easy to get the tap started at an angle which eventually
leaves you with threads on only one side.
Best bet is to do as Mike suggested and get the proper end bell. Failing
that I'd highly recommend having a professional, or at least someone with
extensive experience, drill&tap it for you. Like I said, it shouldn't be
very expensive.
As for alignment. The closer you get the motor/trans to perfect the
better, but it doesn't have to be perfect to work well.
The bolts in the back of the tranny will help and a tape measure can line
up the rest.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Looking at the weight 3.2 lbs*19 is 60.8 lbs or 365
> lbs of batteries (I have about 300lbs with 6 SAFT's at
> 36V currently). So thats 820 Volts in series with
> 34Ahr capacity. Using 1200V IGBT's I could do an AC
> induction or BLDC drive to run this cart. 820 Volts
> nominal or 920V charged, that's scary!!!.
Umm, how did yo get to 820V??!? Where you thinking that these are 6V
batteries? They are 1.2V cells.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW the energy density of the BB600s (34AH NiCads) is almost the same as
flood lead-acids (GC) batteries, at least at the 1C level. At the C20
level PbA has a higher energy density.
However, the BB600 advantages are:
Don't mind 100% discharge.
can leave them dead for periods of time without damage (in fact when
stored for long periods they are normally drained 100% and stored shorted)
Don't mind (too much) repeated partial charging.
They last a loooong time.
Also, I've heard that they don't react quite so bably to cell reversals as
PbAs do. I.e. it will shorten the life of the cell, but not kill it.
> Somebody posted an energy density comparison table for a bunch of
> different batteries a while back but I can't find it in the archives. If
> anyone knows where I can find it, please let me know. Hopefully it has
> Saft 34Ah cells!
>
> Thanks
>
> Carl Clifford
> Denver
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The Deka's are 'Sealed' batteries aren't they? If they are the sealed
Deka Gel Cells, I believe they are rated as being safe to ship, or even
air freight.
> Here is some information that I found out about:
>
> 1. I was looking for sealed, non-venting battery caps that could
> be screwed on during shipping but was unable to find some
>
> 2. trojan however, has better, individual caps with a bajonet lock
> that replace the push-in, combined single cap for 3 cells that
> I currently have on T105s. These new caps will not leak even if
> the battery is tipped over for a short period (several minutes).
> They are sending me some of those caps (at no cost!) :)
>
> 3. deka told me that I can't take the acid out of the batteries,
> no matter what the state of charge is, they claim I would ruin
> the batteries when I refill with new acid after shipping. I am
> not buying this but am passing it along ...
>
>
> Markus
>
>
>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Markus L
>> Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 2:41 PM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: (Flooded) battery shipping advice sought
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Battery Gurus,
>>
>> I am about to ship my two elec-traks overseas and it looks like
>> I can't ship them with the flooded batteries in. It seems I now
>> have two options
>>
>> 1) remove the acid and ship them dry. Then purchase new sulfuric acid
>> upon arrival. Questions here
>> 1) should I remove the acid when they are fully discharged
>> (so how many
>> volts/cell?) or when they are fully charged?
>> 2) what to do with the old acid, where to bring it, in what
>> container to
>> store it?
>>
>> 2) sell the batteries. In that case I have a set of six brand
>> new (not a
>> single cycle)
>> DEKA 215 Ah golf cart batts for sale in SW Virginia and a
>> set of six used
>> Trojan T105 with plenty of life left (just moved and
>> spread 10 tons of
>> gravel
>> with them on a single charge and they were still going strong)
>>
>> Any advice? Golf cart batteries are 2x the price in Europe
>> than here. Thanks
>>
>> Markus
>>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I checked with UPS and they will ship them if the shipper is listed as a
hazardous
shipper.
We are where I work...
The boxes have to be extra strong and the cells must be bagged and sealed.
So check your local shipping dept.
Mike G.
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
As far as I know you can't ship them. The ones I have were trucked by
the buyer. LR.......
Where are they and where are they going? I might be able to help.
----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 5:57 PM
Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells
Did you let the shipper know that this would be a hazardous material
shipment?
----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan B" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 4:58 PM
Subject: BB-600 Nicad Cells
Hi,
Anyone in the northern california looking to buy some? Shipping for 300
is over 525, but for more cells coming to california, the cost-per-unit
should go down.
Interested? We would pay Tim individually, then pay for the total
shipping using freightquote.com. Could store them here if needed for
pickup? I get a sizable discount through them. Or can someone get even
more of a discount? Any better ideas?
Bryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think Otmar still hosts the excel plot of the discharge test I did of
the GE equivalent of these SAFT cells, FWIW.
Seth
P.S. you guys want to have a group buy on cell interconnects, now that
you can order them in the thousands.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought Sevcon still made a 96-144V DC converter. If not I have one I use
in my E-Jeep that's 96-144Vdc input on www.solectrol.com It's a two switch
forward converter 300W.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 2:39 PM
Subject: Re: Jeep EV Update (New Controller!)
> >Christopher Robison wrote:
> > Mark Farver said:
> >
> > > The DCP DC/DC is basically no longer available. I understand that a
> > > dozen or so are still around but that the current owner is hesitant to
> > > put them into the retail channel. This leaves the EV industry with no
> > > high voltage capable DC/DC products. Someone needs to start thinking
> > > about repackaging an Vicor or Meanwell device.
> >
> > I've complained about it before so I won't add too much here, other than
> > my agreement. This is a hole in the market that would guarantee at
least
> > a temporary monopoly to the party that fills it.
>
> So the situation currently is that their is not a suitable DC/DC for
> the 12 volt needs in an EV?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I made one from an Information-Unlimited article with start and run caps and
didn't hafta use a single phase start motor. I did this for a 3-phase saw
mill. I think it was 28uF per HP on the other two legs and used a 50hp 3
phase motor for the rotary converter. The start-run relay kicked over from
electrolytics (high value uf, 250v) to oil motor run caps when the voltage
on a second phase reached 2/3rds of max.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: AC Bandsaw motor questions
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > bandsaw... has a Baldor 3 phase, 5 HP, 230/460V motor... I don't
> > have 3 phase, so I can get a static phase converter for about $125
> > from andersonconverters.com. But it will only give me about 3 HP
> > instead of the 5 HP of the motor.
>
> This is because it is not fully powering all 3 phases. A typical static
> phase converter powers one phase directly from the single-phase line (so
> it gets normal power); a second phase thru a series capacitor to provide
> a +120 deg phase shift (so it gets only about half power); and the third
> hpase thru a series inductor to provide a -120 deg phase shift (likewise
> only getting about half power). The result is reduced horsepower from
> the motor.
>
> But, this many not matter in your application. The motor will run the
> same speed, and still do the same basic job. You just can't load down
> the saw quite as much (can't cut quite as fast or the motor will
> overheat or stall).
>
> > I also understand that it will really use amps.
>
> Yes, that is inevitable. 5hp 3-phase draws half the current per phase as
> 5hp single-phase. The inevitable losses in the phase conversion make
> this a little worse yet.
>
> > Or I can trade out the motor for a new/used 5 hp, 220 V
> > [single-phase] motor.
>
> As long as it is simple to get and mount a new motor, this may be your
> best choice. It will give you full horsepower, and the best overall
> efficiency. However, a single-phase motor will be larger and less
> efficient (run hotter) than the 3-phase motor. It's kind of like
> replacing a 3-cylinder engine with a 1-cylinder engine.
>
> > Which is my best option? Use the existing motor and get a static
> > converter, or get a new 1-phase motor?
>
> Each has its strengths and weaknesses. Buying a static phase converter
> is cheaper and easier, but provides the least horsepower for the saw.
>
> Buying a new single-phase motor for the saw is best if it is easy to
> mount it.
>
> There is a third option -- a rotary phase converter. This is the best
> choice if you need full horsepower from the saw, and it is physically
> difficult to change the motor. A rotary phase converter is simply a
> standard 2.5-5hp 3-phase motor, with a small 1/4hp single-phase motor
> coupled to it as a starter. The single-phase motor and one phase of the
> 3-phase motor are directly connected to your single-phase AC line. This
> starts it spinning. As it does, it *generates* power on the other two
> phases. Connect the 3 phases to your saw motor, and you're in business!
>
> The rotary phase converter's motor only has to be about 2/3 the
> horsepower of the saw motor. That's because only 2 of its 3 phases are
> doing real "work".
>
> Typically, you start the rotary phase converter first, then start the
> saw motor. Note that you can actually have any number of other 3-phase
> motors connected; with this approach, you are basically generating very
> good standard 3-phase power which can be used for any purpose.
> --
> "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> has!" -- Margaret Mead
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for posting this Marc.
The article appeared today on the front page of the Washington Post with an
aerial shot of some crushed EV1s in the desert.
A story like this making it on the front page of the Post is big news. It
proves the Vigil and all the messages people have been sending to GM is
working. The world now knows what is going on.
Chris Preuss, GM's Communication director is in DC and must have seen it
already. He must have choked on his coffee.
We should take advantage of the inertia and keep pounding a away on GM till
we make some Impact.
If anyone needs the latest contact information for GM let me know.
Chip Gribben
Save the EV1
http://www.saveev1.org
On 3/10/05 1:07 AM, "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> From: Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2005 22:06:34 -0800
> To: EV Discussion <[email protected]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], RAV4 EV <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: washingtonpost: Fans of GM Electric Car Fight the Crusher
>
> Washington Post 3/10/05
>
> Fans of GM Electric Car Fight the Crusher;
> Activists, Auto Buffs Stage Vigil to Save EV1
>
> By Greg Schneider and Kimberly Edds
>
> The morning is too chilly for her flirty purple skirt and pink top,
> so former "Baywatch" actress Alexandra Paul wraps her bare legs in a
> fleece blanket and settles down for a long sidewalk vigil in Burbank,
> Calif. Passersby on scooters toot their horns, and a security guard
> smiles and waves as he walks by. Both he and the actress are there for
> the same reason: to keep an eye on a parking lot full of colorful,
> two-door cars behind a nondescript suburban office building. . .
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera wrote:
Once again, I'm not blaming the Zilla, Otmar... but it is rather
strange that I NEVER had any problems with the DC/DC blowing its
input fuse PRIOR to installing the Zilla. Maybe just a bad
coincidence? or?
Well, let's think about it.
My first though is the with the new controller that puts out some real power
and a low voltage pack ( 132v might sage to 80 v with 400 amps load) , that
the pack voltage might have droped lower the usule and this would make the
dc to dc work harder , pulling more amps on the input side
The DC/DC input probably has an input fuse, and a big filter capacitor
inside. If the pack voltage changes very rapidly, there will be a large
surge current as the capacitors charge or discharge. This surge current
can blow the fuse.
but woun't this happen also when you first truned it on . maybe the combo of
a high load also
How might one get such a surge current. One possibility is with a very
high current motor controller. The controller also has a big capacitor
bank, to handle the huge pulsed currents produced as the controller
switches on/of/on/off at high frequency to control motor speed. If your
circuit winds up being nothing but a fuse and some wire between the
DC/DC and controller, then the DC/DC's input capacitors also see these
huge pulsed currents. This could blow the fuse.
Another possibility: The battery-to-controller wiring is fairly long,
and has lots of inductance. If the motor is running at high current and
something abruptly shuts it off (controller shuts off with no rampdown
or a contactor opens, etc.), the battery lead inductance is "charged" to
a high current that suddenly has no place to go. The voltage will kick
up tens or even hundreds of volts, and could blow the DC/DC's fuse or
even kill its transistors.
--
so what to do to save these dc's ? voltage clamping diode on input ?
steve clunn
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got a K&W BC-20 that's missing its 30A fuse and fuse cover. Does
anyone know whether this is a special part, or just a regular 30A fuse with
a built-in cover that I can buy somewhere? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, so I'm wondering if any of the DC area people want to do a rally or
who knows what in DC to help support the EV1 guys out in CA? I have no
clue about how to go about doing this, but I think we should do
something. Show up in some sort of force so people go "gee, there are
people with EVs"
Any thoughts?
CZ
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The Deka's are 'Sealed' batteries aren't they? If they are the sealed
> Deka Gel Cells, I believe they are rated as being safe to
> ship, or even
> air freight.
Hi Peter,
while I do have some Deka Gel Cells, the ones I am talking about are
standard
flooded 215Ah/6V golf-cart batteries. They have a twist-lock style vented
cap.
Turns out that my shipper got back to me and told me that for a garden
tractor
all I'd have to do is to unhook the negative battery cable from the tractor
body. I think that rule was meant for standard ICE tracgtors. However, their
agent saw the tractor and knows that there are six large batteries in the
tractor and didn't object. So I think I will slip through the cracks without
violating shipping regulations. :) ... I am still a bit nervous about the
possibility of the container being tipped over and the acid slowly leaking
out eating through my beloved elec-trak, then the container, then the
ship ..... making it a submarine .... hmm, come to think of it submarines
have batteries .... (Well I hope there isn't quite enough acid to do that
kinda damage).
Markus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Usually it's a European thing for IEI chager curve and dv/dt=0 finish.
Constant max current, 1st phase; constant 2.40 V per cell 2nd phase; a then
constant C/40 current third phase untill dv/dt=0 or <.01 V per cell per
hour, stop.
I restart at <50F to keep the batteries warm and keep the vehicle in an
unheated garage also.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 6:05 PM
Subject: Charging Terminology
> What does the following stand for when referring to a battery charging
> algorithm?
>
> I1, I2, U, I3a
>
> Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Navas
> Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 8:56 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Bendy batteries: the MIT Slimcell
>
> Jay writes:
>
>http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/feature/story/0%2C13026%2C1423451%2C00.html
>
> Paul writes:
> >>Another new cell design, giving 250 wh/kg:
> >>http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/03/bendy_batteries.php
>
> Sadoway's cells are interesting. As I recall, they have higher than
> 250 in the lab and are aiming at 400wh/kg. The thing is, though, that
> in attempting to create a battery that is cheap to manufacture (or
> mayhaps for other reasons), they've foregone Co. LiVOx suffers from
> low-rate, and the best they've done is get 1.6C out of it. You'd need to
> have some kind of assist to put this in an EV.
>
> Voltaflex is attempting to make them using a roll-2-roll, which should
> make them pretty affordable. Assuming they are successful. Take
> a peek at:
> http://www.voltaflex.com/tech.wp.html
>
> -Dave
>
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Celebrate Yahoo!'s 10th Birthday!
> Yahoo! Netrospective: 100 Moments of the Web
> http://birthday.yahoo.com/netrospective/
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mine also was popped the input fuse prior to zorching. I made the mistake
of running it ALL the time which grows and electrolysis effect across the
board from the high voltage components to the controller IC during humid
weather (an accumulative effect over a couple years). I ended up making my
own using a twin forward Unitrode converter AND conformal coating the board
AND not running it constantly. Now I use an Aux U-1 tractor battery and the
DC converter shuts off with the key (120V,12Vcoil relay). I also replaced
all my lights (brake,turn.running) with LED lights. I made mine from
Lumex/Digi-Key but now are available pre-made. That stopped the secondary
fuse from popping on the DCP unit. Mine just sags voltage under load and I
like it better but I also have an input fuse for safety.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 7:00 PM
Subject: Re: Jeep EV Update DC/DC is DEAD
> Hi,
>
> Just to clarify again: Yes, my DC/DC is now 100% DEAD. After it shot
> sparks, that was the end of it, period. Though, upon inspecting it, Mark
> and I could not find any signs of damage at all. That is very strange.
>
> > I don't see any way that the Zilla could have contributed to its
> > demise. But you never know, I may be missing something.
>
> Once again, I'm not blaming the Zilla, Otmar... but it is rather strange
> that I NEVER had any problems with the DC/DC blowing its input fuse
> PRIOR to installing the Zilla. Maybe just a bad coincidence? or?
>
> > Since you are running power steering, I would suggest a DC-DC of at
> > least 50 amps, and 75 would be a normal amount.Plus, you should have
> > a good surge battery.
>
> I too really want a 50+ amp DC/DC. When I was buying components, I
> couldn't find anyone who made one that could handle up to 210 volts
> input. IMO, The Hawker AGM I have does an excellent job handling high
> current surges. It just can't do so for very long as it is only 16ah. I
> really don't want to put something as heavy as a Yellow top in their...
>
> Basically, I've got to find a new DC/DC converter or see if I can get
> the DCP one fixed (sure hope I can as it wasn't a cheap unit). What I
> _really_ want to do is design/build my own, because I enjoy working with
> electronics. However, I have little experience with power electronics,
> so I need to do more homework before I can design a circuit. I'm going
> to start working with some flyback converter circuits and see what I can
> come up with. But in the mean time, I've got to get a working DC/DC in
> the Jeep so I can get it back on the road.
>
> Thanks,
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ok, I need some input from the electronics wizards on the list (Mark you
listening?)
I'm in the design phases of my solar charging rig for my I-5 and golf
cart. I have just had an opportunity to purchase a 48v air X wind
turbine.
My property has a lot of wind and this is probably a good idea for me.
What I'm worried about is using a turbine that is designed to charge a
48v system to charge a 36v system. Is there an easy way to do this
without damaging my batteries?
Thanks
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Can anyone help me with finding some particulars of a Drexel PN: 8855 DC
motor? Could not find anything on the web as of yet. Only nameplate on the
motor just has PN. Thanks, Jack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just bought 250 cells and will either pick them up
in NY or have them shipped. If there is anybody else
near Akron, OH that is buying some let me know and
we can arrange combining the shipment.
Thanks,
Rod
--- Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> For those of you that can't get through, or those
> that are interested and
> haven't paid yet....
>
> I have set up a quick and dirty ebay listing
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3880658968
>
> search BB600 if the link doesn't work.
>
>
> You can use this to reserve and pay for the number
> of cells you desire.
> After all of the orders are in, then we will figure
> out the best way to
> ship them.
> There are quite a few people that have expressed
> interest and are only
> about 100 miles from each other, and obviously can
> save quite a bit on
> shipping costs by combining pallets. Each person
> will have the final say
> in how their order is to be shipped, but I will be
> able to suggest
> "partners".
>
> For those that planned to pay via my e-mail
> instructions, it will save me
> a few cents by not using ebay, but ebay will provide
> a nice "database"
> feature for me too, so I guess it's a wash. Use what
> you're comfortable
> with.
>
> I hope I've been able to reply to everyones
> questions. If not, hit me
> again please.
>
> --
>
> Stay Charged!
> Hump
> "Whether you think you can or think you can't, you
> are right!" --Henry Ford
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Might not work as the AIR 403 and AIR-X use a MPPT charge controller in
the unit itself. Could get weird if it only sees 36 volts.
Chris
James Jarrett wrote:
Ok, I need some input from the electronics wizards on the list (Mark you
listening?)
I'm in the design phases of my solar charging rig for my I-5 and golf
cart. I have just had an opportunity to purchase a 48v air X wind
turbine.
My property has a lot of wind and this is probably a good idea for me.
What I'm worried about is using a turbine that is designed to charge a
48v system to charge a 36v system. Is there an easy way to do this
without damaging my batteries?
Thanks
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon,
Thanks for letting me come out and ride your cycle a while back.
I am using an Alltrax 7245 controller 72V 450Amp. I have a range of front
sprockets but right now I am at 4.6:1 which tops me out at about 62MPH.
Acceleration is good, comparable to a 600cc motorcycle and should get better
as I am putting in a 9.6 HP D&D motor to replace my 4HP ADC which was
getting hot. Bike weight is about 600lbs. I am happy with my gearing and
can change it easily. I just bought 100Ah Trojan SCS150's haven't even
charged them once yet, but now it looks like I'll be getting in on the
BB600s so it looks like I am welding up battery cage number 3.
On that note I am looking for Denver folks wanting in on the group battery
buy. Let me know.
-Garret in Broomfield CO
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 2:07 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: potbox tolerance
Which controller are you using and about how much does the bike weigh? What
is your gearing. My bike weighs around 800 lbs with me on it. I have the
48V 400amp alltrax and 14 to 41 gearing. I am happy with the performance.
Acceleration is accetable, perhaps a little slow for a motorcycle, but
easily as good as most cars, and I have about a 60mph top end.
You realize that if you want quicker acceleration you need more amps, or
lower gearing, and if you want more top end speed you need higher volts or
higher gearing right?
damon
>From: "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: RE: potbox tolerance
>Date: Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:52:12 -0600
>
>I am using an Alltrax. I found the manual and in case anyone else was
>wondering it states full on at 4.7k.
>Too bad, I thought I might have found some free horsepower hiding, guess
>not. Thanks for the help.
>-Garret
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>Behalf Of Lee Hart
>Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 11:31 AM
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Re: potbox tolerance
>
>Maki, Garret wrote:
> > I have a Magura twist grip pot for my motorcycle. I measured it the
> > other day and it is actually a 4.7k ohm pot. Should I be concerned
> > that I am not getting fully to 5K?
>
>The Curtis controllers specify 4.4k as "full throttle", so you should be
>ok. I'm not sure about other brands of controller.
>--
>"The two most common elements in the universe
>are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
>--
>Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, so it looks like a lot of us may be playing with NiCad.
What are you planning on using for charging? How advanced does the charger
need to be? I've only been doing this for a few months now so sorry if this
has already been discussed.
-Garret in Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All,
I've been debating picking up some of these BB-600's but can't quite get my
head around the big picture on these batteries. I've been a lurker on the list
for years but never having "done it", my head is just full of variables. If
anyone can ballpark any of the following, or give me an educated guess, I would
appreciate it.
These cells are 1.2 v. Does that mean with a 380v max input controller for
example that I use 380/1.2 = 317 cells or is there a nominal voltage issue?
Somebody said that the Saft watering systems are for modules, not these cells.
Does anyone have a sense of whether they would be adaptable, or whether a
mortal could fashion such a system?
What would be a reasonable ballpark estimate of range with 1000 lbs of these
things in a Passat wagon with a beefy controller and motor? (beefy is the
technical term)
0-60?
Can these handle regen?
Can these handle trickle charging?
What would I need to charge such a string? How cheaply could I do it?
I know there are a lot of assumptions required to make any estimates on this
stuff, but I just need to know what is within the realm of possibility. I
realize these have about the energy density of Lead-Acid, but I'm the type of
guy that runs out of gas a lot, so I need batteries that can take some abuse
and that I can forget to plug in now and then without murdering them.
Thanks in advance,
Carl Clifford
Denver
grinless :-|
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was wondering about those old ford starters mentioned in regard to the
cheap EV conversi�n (the bug thing), what was the real hp rating of those
motors, I rmeeber they used them to drag the lures on dog races, I read they
had serious cooling issues.
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] nombre
de Otmar
Enviado el: martes, 08 de marzo de 2005 21:09
Para: [email protected]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asunto: Re: Jeep EV Update (New Controller!)
At 10:29 PM -0600 3-7-05, Nick Viera wrote:
>Since I installed my Zilla, my DC/DC converter has begun blowing its
>input fuse. I own a DCP DC/DC converter. Basically, it appears the
>DC/DC converter works fine when the Jeep is off. However, when I
>turn on the Jeep (by taking the ignition switch to the start
>position to activate the Zilla), the DC/DC converter's input fuse
>would blow within a minute or two. This appears to be a repeatable
>occurrence.
Well that sure is odd.
I wonder if it's the load of the contactor on the 12V system, or some
of the top secret Alien sourced parts from outer space that I use in
the Zilla causing the problem? :-)
A few questions:
Unfortunately this might cost you a few fuses to figure out...
Were you driving when it blew? If yes then what did you set your Low
Battery Voltage cutback to? (Battery menu, setting v) If it's too low
then the DC-DC might be trying too hard to keep up and draw too much
current. Since you have a 160V pack, I would try it at no less than
110V.
Does it blow if you start the controller and do not drive?
Does it blow if you do not start the controller, but just turn on the
headlights for ten minutes?
Is your DC-DC wired so it is always on, 100% of the time, or does it
have it's own relay for turning it on?
That's all I can think to ask at the moment.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.6.2 - Release Date: 04/03/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Otmar wrote:
I don't see any way that the Zilla could have contributed to its
demise. But you never know, I may be missing something.
Nick Viera wrote:
Once again, I'm not blaming the Zilla, Otmar... but it is rather
strange that I NEVER had any problems with the DC/DC blowing its
input fuse PRIOR to installing the Zilla. Maybe just a bad
coincidence? or?
Well, let's think about it.
The DC/DC input probably has an input fuse, and a big filter capacitor
inside. If the pack voltage changes very rapidly, there will be a large
surge current as the capacitors charge or discharge. This surge current
can blow the fuse.
Both Rudman and the Alltrax folks felt the only event that would cause the input fuse to blow was repeated high inrush currents. For example: switching the DC/DC off the ignition or a bad/loose HV wire to the unit. The DC/DC has an inrush limiter, but it appears to be a small thermal device.
So the problem could be as Lee suggests: pack voltage swings caused by the Zilla. That would explain why the unit never failed on Alltrax's test bench. It would also explain why Nick with sagging pack of floodeds blows the fuse more often than I do with my stiffer pack of Optimas (except when my car is driven by certain lead footed individuals).
If that is the case there isn't much that can be done about the issue.
Once again I ask who out there is using the DCP DC/DC with the Zilla, or with
other high current (TREX/Raptor 1200) controllers. Has anyone else seen this
issue?
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The best approach to this problem are to bypass what could be one is to
replace the voltage regulator with a 36 volt unit.Your wind charger will now
deliver 36+ volts. Put a VW engine in my lawn tractor and changed to 12
volt charge system by doing same. I increased but as they say what goes up
weill go down.
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 7:30 AM
Subject: Re: wind charger?
> Might not work as the AIR 403 and AIR-X use a MPPT charge controller in
> the unit itself. Could get weird if it only sees 36 volts.
>
> Chris
> James Jarrett wrote:
> > Ok, I need some input from the electronics wizards on the list (Mark you
> > listening?)
> >
> > I'm in the design phases of my solar charging rig for my I-5 and golf
> > cart. I have just had an opportunity to purchase a 48v air X wind
> > turbine.
> >
> > My property has a lot of wind and this is probably a good idea for me.
> > What I'm worried about is using a turbine that is designed to charge a
> > 48v system to charge a 36v system. Is there an easy way to do this
> > without damaging my batteries?
> >
> > Thanks
> >
> > James
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The BB600 manual that I have from Marathon calls for a 21A CC charge until
all cells reach 1.55V, then a 2-hour topping charge of 8.4A.
I was planning on attaching an Amp-hour counter to the Nicads, and then
putting back approx. 110% of the Amp-hours used to equalize the cells. So
if I used 30 Amp-hours, for example, I'd want to put 33 Amp-hours back in.
If my charger goes to only 18A, then I'd charge at 18A for an hour, followed
by 8A for 2 hours. Does that sound right, or is there a better way to do
it?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Maki, Garret
Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 8:43 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: BB600 charging
OK, so it looks like a lot of us may be playing with NiCad.
What are you planning on using for charging? How advanced does the charger
need to be? I've only been doing this for a few months now so sorry if this
has already been discussed.
-Garret in Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Carl Clifford wrote:
Hi All,
I've been debating picking up some of these BB-600's but can't quite get my head around the big picture on these batteries. I've been a lurker on the list for years but never having "done it", my head is just full of variables. If anyone can ballpark any of the following, or give me an educated guess, I would appreciate it.
I think a lot of us are in this boat; we're trying to figure out if/how
these will work. The big advantage is there are a *lot* of them, they
put out a lot of specific power (ok I admit it; I'm addicted to my AGM
Hawkers) and they will last forever. Their footprint seems to match the
T105 in terms of capacity at EV rates and weight and they might be able
to handle 200-300amp discharges for a length of time.
The downside is they need a watering system and one will have to
parallel them. Can these problems be solved? Maybe. But what interests
me is this is a project with 10,000 of these batteries with more on the
way (courtesy of Uncle Sugar... I mean Sam). The price is right where we
could spend an additional $5.00 a battery to figure out a watering cap;
even at that price, $6 bucks a cell means $1,200 for 200 of them (giving
a 120 volt pack with 70ah capacity. That's equal to a T105 pack esp when
you consider you can run these down to zero without destruction, etc).
I'd pay $1,200 for a pack that would last for 50k miles and work well in
the winter.
The Saft cap might be an example. Maybe we can build a prototype for one
that fits the 600 then make them in China or something. For 50 batteries
that would never pay. But how about an order for 10,000 of them?
And yaknow, they might be a total waste. In which case a lot of ham
radio operators will squeal with joy as these get sold at hamfests. I'm
willing to take the risk (and deal with my wife wondering why I have
3,000lbs of batteries in the yard) to find out.
I'm willing to seriously experiment with this. I'm planning on putting a
bunch into my Elec-trak and then another batch into a simple EV. I'd
love to put them in my Prizm, but I'm not sure if they will fit. Maybe
they will somehow.
Perhaps we should set up a seperate list (bb600) to handle this? I'd be
willing to host it on alembic.crystel.com (my personal Unix systems)
Chris
--- End Message ---
