EV Digest 4181
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: RoboMower
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: BB-600 Nicad charging
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) motor cooling
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: RoboMower
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Measuring power required for air & tire resistance
by Lawrence Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: RoboMower
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) TS on their Sides
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Retail Value of 2001 Gem Utility?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: motor cooling
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Heating an EV
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: Measuring power required for air & tire resistance
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Tires again
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: RoboMower
by Lawrence Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: RoboMower
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: A Political party ...
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Light globes for constant current, was RE: BB-600 Nicad
charging
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Heating an EV
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Electravan cord & safety switch problem.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Retail Value of 2001 Gem Utility?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: A Political party that is Pro-EV & Pro-Environment. It is
called: WE THE PEOPLE PARTY
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Personal introduction
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Tires again and Powerwheels
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
23) Re: Tires again - tire width
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) 400 lb-ft, 22" BLDC motors, 120#, on Ebay, ending today
by "Markus L" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) BB-600 Nicad Cells - shipping
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Kia conversion
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
In fact, it is a Woot unit. So new batteries? I could rig up 2 automotive
batteries to test it.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 6:28 PM
Subject: Re: RoboMower
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005, Dave wrote:
Hello all
My friend just bought an EV (sort of), a robotic lawn mower. I have tried
to charge it up, but it keeps shutting off. Here's the EV part: the
battery pack consists of 2 ea 12 volt lead acid batteries, but the
charger is 32 VDC and 900 mA. Does that sound right? Or should the
charger be closer to 24 volts? Thanks all.
The batteries are probably shot, especially if it's one of the Woot units.
IIRC they're 17ah 12v Yuasa batteries, The charger I have is the same, and
at least seems to do a good job of charging. 24v would be too low.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon, why does a string a light bulbs in series make a constant current?
I've seen this suggestion before, but have never understood it. Does the
string go in series with the batteries?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Friday, March 11, 2005 11:31 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: BB-600 Nicad charging
My take on this, is that if you have ever charged a string of Lead Acid
batteries you will find these NiCads much easier. They have less stringent
requirements and tolerate most "oops events" much more gracefully.
My main charger is a 20 amp motorized variac. I have planned on adding the
brains to it since I first bought it, but to be honest, with just a shutoff
timer it takes very little user input to get a decent charge. Once you are
familiar with your pack you can make a pretty reasonable guess at what
current to start out at and how long to let it run then forget it. A string
of light bulbs in series makes for an easy CC device, so for any type of
overcharge I just use the lightbulbs to set the current and adjust the
timer.
damon
>From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: BB-600 Nicad charging
>Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2005 10:11:56 -0800
>
>I'm very seriously contemplating picking up a couple of hundred of the
>Nicads, but one thing is troubling me: The charging. I've heard a lot of
>talk about *how* to charge them (const current, voltage threshold, etc),
>but if I want to charge these reliably, what equipment do I use? Can I use
>one of the PFC chargers? Would I have to babysit it?
>
>Being that I'm handy with electronics, but I don't really want to design
>and build power electronics, an electronically controllable charger would
>be ideal. In fact, a PFC with a serial port and programmable and readable
>current / voltage settings would be ideal. You could set the current to
>level X, and the voltage well above the pack peak; voila! constant current
>-- read the voltage until it reaches a point, then reset your
>voltage/current parameters. Essentially, I want a CV/CC power supply
>that's electronically controllable (as opposed to a knob).
>
>How important is it to monitor individual cells? If you've tested your
>cells and matched them well, how often do you need to check them?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
could some one tell me if this is a bad idea. I am
working on piping air into my motor for cooling. the
current plan is to scoop the air from the front of the
car and pipe it to the back where the motor is. I'm
wondering if this is a bad idea because of mosture and
other crap getting into the motor.... I have some
inline blowers for lower speeds and the air can just
be inducted at higher speeds...
thank you for you input,
Brian B.
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--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005, Dave wrote:
In fact, it is a Woot unit. So new batteries? I could rig up 2 automotive
batteries to test it.
The woot page claimed the batteries were likely goners. The woot unit I
got for my sister last November or so had good batteries, my coworker got
one at the same time and his batteries were bad.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I compute the power and energy to accelerate the mass
an example EV without friction with linear
acceleration.
Mass: 1,000 kg (2,200 lb)
Acceleration: 60 MPH in 15 seconds
is 26.82 meters per second in 15 seconds
is 1.8 meters per second**2
Force = M * A = 900 Newtons
Distance = 0.5 * A * t**2 = 202.5 meters
Energy = Force * Distance = 364,500 Joules
Power = Energy / Time = 24.3 kW
Note: Reducing the acceleration by increasing the time
reduces the power, energy remains the same.
Consider the other energy losses:
1. Tire rolling resistance
2. Rotating energy in the tires
3. Air resistance
4. Rotating energy in the transmission
5. Rotating energy in the motor rotor
6. losses in the transmission from motor to wheels
7. I**2R losses
8. motor controller losses
I plan to take time & speed measurements of my 1996
GEO METRO, decelerating from 60 MPH, with clutch in,
to estimate energy and power requirements for items 1,
2, and 3.
I was interested to know if anyone else approached the
issue of power & energy in this manner, or how it was
measured, computed, or estimated.
L.MILLER
Vision: Compact EV car or truck, comparable operation
to a commercially available vehicle, range 500 miles
with engine-generator (maybe an engine-generator
trailer)
P.S.
Rod,
Thanks for the friendly reminder against political
posts. I won't reply to political posts again.
L.MILLER
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ah. Then I will get 24 volts worth and check it out.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Derrick J Brashear" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:23 PM
Subject: Re: RoboMower
On Sun, 13 Mar 2005, Dave wrote:
In fact, it is a Woot unit. So new batteries? I could rig up 2 automotive
batteries to test it.
The woot page claimed the batteries were likely goners. The woot unit I
got for my sister last November or so had good batteries, my coworker got
one at the same time and his batteries were bad.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know that the TS cells can be laid on their sides. Is there any problem
with stacking them 7 high? I've got 35 of the 200Ah cells, and would like
to stack them in 5 columns of 7 cells each. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check E-bay for current selling levels. I did this when a Gem came up for
sale at an aircraft auction I was attending. There were 3-4 of them for
sale. You should probably used the "search completed listings" feature.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:02 PM
Subject: Retail Value of 2001 Gem Utility?
> What is a good range to consider for buying:
>
> 2001 GEM Utility
> (don't yet know if it's the short bed or long bed)
> 2 Passenger
> Rear plexi-glass window
> Staked Bed
> Locking truck toolbox
>
> 100 miles
>
> Are there any online resources for this (blue book type of info)?
>
> Thanks,
> Mac
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Been doing this type of cooling now for 30 years with the same Dayton 6 inch
Blowers that is directly attach to the motor brush covers.
There is also a blower on the enclosure that houses the Zilla. Each blower has
a standard 6 inch carburetor air filter housing mounted on the intake.
The motor has exhaust grills at the rear bottom. The internal of the motor
housing, the coils and commentators has been built up with many coats of high
temperature motor enamel, until is glass smooth.
The exposed motor shaft that goes through the rotor is also insulated with this
motor enamel. This prevents brush dust tracking from the commentators segments
to this shaft.
This 12 inch GE motor has temperature sensors on the field coils, which never
indicated a over temperature. The brushes have been only replace one time
although they worn down about 1/2 there length.
Before this mod was done, the resistance was 30 K ohms from commentator to
motor case. After this mod, it now reads over 20 meg ohms.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: brian baumel<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 9:22 PM
Subject: motor cooling
could some one tell me if this is a bad idea. I am
working on piping air into my motor for cooling. the
current plan is to scoop the air from the front of the
car and pipe it to the back where the motor is. I'm
wondering if this is a bad idea because of mosture and
other crap getting into the motor.... I have some
inline blowers for lower speeds and the air can just
be inducted at higher speeds...
thank you for you input,
Brian B.
__________________________________
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Yahoo! Mail - now with 250MB free storage. Learn more.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome to the list L
Check the archives. I asked this question on Aug 25 last year, titled
"Cabin Heaters - what do you use?" There are a lot of people who use
gasoline and other heaters powered from fossil fuels.
I also have a note about it on my web site at
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_CabinHeater.html
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Miller
Sent: March 13, 2005 4:46 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Heating an EV
Has anyone considered or implemented heating by a catalytic propane gas or
other gas system?
Perhaps the catalytic heater could be used to heat fluid instead of the air
directly to reduce the chance of carbon monoxide poisioning or suffication.
I just don't like the idea of 3 kW for heating from the batteries or
engine-generator.
L.MILLER
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Read only the mail you want - Yahoo! Mail SpamGuard.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence Miller writes:
> Force = M * A = 900 Newtons
Dropped a factor of 2 here. Rest of math checks out.
> I plan to take time & speed measurements of my 1996
> GEO METRO, decelerating from 60 MPH, with clutch in,
> to estimate energy and power requirements for items 1,
> 2, and 3.
>
> I was interested to know if anyone else approached the
> issue of power & energy in this manner, or how it was
> measured, computed, or estimated.
That's exactly what my wife and I did before starting our first conversion a
few months back. With the vehicle suitably loaded, we went for some timing runs
up and down a nice, long, flat, quiet stretch of road at night: accelerate up
to around 90km/hr, then coast down with clutch in, calling out every 5 km/hr
decrement and recording the elapsed interval; repeated a few times up-and-down
the same stretch.
For each interval, taking the loss in kinetic energy [ie. 1/2 * m *
(v_initial**2 - v_final**2) ] and dividing by the respective average elapsed
time, gave us a crude but useful approximation to the power required to
overcome drag and rolling resistance losses for steady state at a range of
speeds.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 12 Mar 2005 at 20:47, John Wayland wrote:
> if I remember
> correctly, 'Hancook'.
This is probably "Hankook." They're located in the country we call Korea.
FWIW, Hankook (or Hangook or Hanguk; western languages don't have quite the
right sound and there are various ways to Romanize) is the name for Korea in
their own language.
I've been very satisfied with Nokian NRT2s. These are Finnish-made reduced
rolling resistance tires. Though I don't have specs, subjectively traction,
noise, and wear seem about optimally balanced for me. NRT2 is actually a
small car tire, so they might not have the load capacity you want, but they
are available in 185/65R15 and 195/65R15 sizes. They can be a challenge to
find in the US, but are worth chasing down IMO.
http://tinyurl.com/5cnkv
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
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tell lies to journalists and then believe what they read.
-- Karl Kraus
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Given that a typical 12 V car system is at 14 to 16 V
while charging, 32 V for a 24 V system seems within
the high side of reasonable.
Suggest trying your idea first - known good batteries.
L.MILLER
--- Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all
> My friend just bought an EV (sort of), a robotic
> lawn mower. I have tried to charge it up, but it
> keeps shutting off. Here's the EV part: the battery
> pack consists of 2 ea 12 volt lead acid batteries,
> but the charger is 32 VDC and 900 mA. Does that
> sound right? Or should the charger be closer to 24
> volts? Thanks all.
>
> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
> Children need love, especially when they do not
> deserve it.
>
> - Harold S. Hulbert
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I will do that. I am wondering if there is a short in the batteries. When I
attach the charger, it starts to fire up, but immediately shuts off, then
tries again. The batteries are in a case, and I will have to find a way to
open it to access the leads.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 9:43 PM
Subject: Re: RoboMower
Given that a typical 12 V car system is at 14 to 16 V
while charging, 32 V for a 24 V system seems within
the high side of reasonable.
Suggest trying your idea first - known good batteries.
L.MILLER
--- Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello all
My friend just bought an EV (sort of), a robotic
lawn mower. I have tried to charge it up, but it
keeps shutting off. Here's the EV part: the battery
pack consists of 2 ea 12 volt lead acid batteries,
but the charger is 32 VDC and 900 mA. Does that
sound right? Or should the charger be closer to 24
volts? Thanks all.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not
deserve it.
- Harold S. Hulbert
__________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Just a reminder, folks, that because of the wide range of opinion here,
explicit political content is strongly discouraged on the EV list. Even pro-
environmental messages can be controversial. EV hobbyists have many reasons
for their interest, and not all of the list members here are strong
environmentalists. You can't assume, for example, that everyone here agrees
on the issue of human-driven climate change.
When the issue is ON TOPIC, a cautiously worded note suggesting a URL for
further information can be welcome. In this case it would have probably
offended nobody to say something like, "I've discovered a political party
with a pro-EV plank. You can read more at the URL below." But it's
hazardous to the list's signal-to-noise ratio to quote political rhetoric as
was done here.
Please be prudent and considerate of others' views.
Thanks,
David
Assistant EV List Administrator
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
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Republicans have perfectly nice manners, normal hair,
pleasant smiles, good deodorants; but when it comes down
to cases, you do not want them to be monitoring your oxygen
flow. They will set it to the minimum required to sustain basic
brain function, and then they will recite a little prayer for you.
-- Garrison Keillor
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--- Begin Message ---
At 09:02 PM 13/03/05 -0700, Bill Dennis wrote:
why does a string a light bulbs in series make a constant current?
Hi All
I have never actually used this method to charge a battery, this is from
first principles, I'm certain that Lee and others will be able to give a
more precise/real world answer to this, but a way to describe what happens
(hopefully in simple terms) is as follows:
The first thing needed to be known is the behaviour of a light globe: the
filament in a cold light globe has much lower resistance than a hot (lit)
one [as an aside, that's why they will normally fail at switch-on].
The second piece of information is one that I doubt anyone on this list
would not already know: as batteries of the type we are describing charge
up, their voltage rises.
The follower to the bit about the battery voltage changing with state of
charge, is that if a battery is charged from a constant-voltage DC power
source, the source will attempt to deliver as many amps as it takes to get
the battery volts up to the source voltage, something that usualy can't
happen - so breakers trip and transformers get burnt out.
So when you have a light bulb *of a suitable voltage and power* connected
in between a relatively fixed-voltage DC power source and a battery, when
the battery is down on voltage, the filament will have a significant
proportion of its designed voltage across it, so it will get hot and light
up. Because it is hot, its' resistance is [relatively] high, limiting the
current to around what a fully-on lamp as stated passes (eg, 100W, 100V is
1A, 12V 100W is 8.3A, etc.).
As the battery state of charge rises, the amount of voltage across the
filament falls, so it cools, and so its' resistance falls, allowing more
current through it. But there is lower voltage across it due to the battery
voltage being higher - viola! the current doesn't change much as the
battery voltage rises (I'd predict that it would gradually fall, but
probably not linearly).
The practicalities of using this method I can see relate to how to optimize
the light globe.
The DC power source would need to be just a little higher than full-charge
voltage for the battery.
The filament voltage will need to be around the voltage swing of
full-discharge to full-charge of the battery, for example, an 120V
lead-acid pack will swing from around 105V to around 150V, a 45V swing. So
4 x 12-volt or 2 x 24V light globes in series will cover that. How much
current you want will determine the wattage - to follow the example, if 24V
'globes' are used, and it is desired to current-limit at say 2 to 2.5A,
then 55W 'globes' would be chosen to allow around 2.3A (55W @ 24V = 2.29A).
Changing the 'globes' changes the amps, 100W @ 24V = 4.17A, 100W @ 12V =
8.3A and so-on.
Hope this is useful to someone. I wasn't intending making this to be so
long, but that is what it took - sorry about that!
Regards
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 04:45 PM 13/03/05 -0800, Lawrence Miller wrote:
Has anyone considered or implemented heating by a
catalytic propane gas or other gas system?
Perhaps the catalytic heater could be used to heat
fluid instead of the air directly to reduce the chance
of carbon monoxide poisioning or suffication.
I just don't like the idea of 3 kW for heating from
the batteries or engine-generator.
Hi Lawrence
Welcome to the EVDL, and be prepared to have many preconcieved ideas
rattled (as I did). Look in the archives for a rant from John Wayland about
heating electric vehicles and why it is best to use electric heating.
Yes, fuel-fired heating is done, primarily, it would seem, to not have to
pull apart the vehicle interior to get at the existing heater core.
>"to reduce the chance of carbon monoxide poisioning or suffication."
WHAT! you've got to be kidding, why would you even consider a system that
could run any risk like that?
>"I just don't like the idea of 3 kW for heating from the batteries or
engine-generator"
So don't have to. Pre-heat from the grid at 3kW, insulate your cabin and
keep the temperature comfortable at 300W to 500W average (unless you are
somewhere that gets very cold). Pre-heating comes with a big
comfort-advantage, and if you are somewhere you get frosted windows a big
safety-advantage. Driving away in a warm vehicle with non-frosted windows
in winter is something that I'm looking forward to (my vehicle is still
under conversion).
My $0.02 worth on your 500-mile goal, as you describe it, if your pockets
are deep enough, get on and build it. A 30-min range @ 60mph is 30 miles,
easy to do (depending on base vehicle), so that part is OK. 500 miles+ can
be done by carrying a generator that can provide the average power
requirements needed (not efficient, but quite do-able). Much more important
is the vehicle parameters you are needing: number of passengers and
payload, and the personal parameters of style and comfort. If you are 'set'
on electric-only drive, can you tow a generator-trailer or a pusher-trailer
for longer trips? You state a compact street car - what maximum speed and
acceleration do you want to achieve? Two passengers and a hundred pounds of
payload or five passengers? How compact (it can't be too small or you won't
be able to fit everything in)? Can you compromise on your 'electric-only'
power to the wheels and build a power-train (paralell) hybrid (standard
front-wheel-drive with free-wheeling hubs, electric rear drive)?
Discussion of all of these options will make for great reading over the
coming months, helping you to firm up your concepts before going looking
for a vehicle that is as close to ideal for your specifications. If you can
afford it, a ground-up built chassis put under a body of choice may be optimal.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On the Electravan there is a center switch in the receptical that is
supposed to stop the truck from operating when pluged in. Doesn't work. My
wife drove off tearing some stuff up. Mainly I thought the wire ties
holding the line to the ceiling of the garage. Well that receptical blew up
on me tonight carbon blacking my right hand when I tried to charge. No pain
but I had to use the green scratchy side of the sponge to clean my hand. I
think the center switch spring poped out and welded to the receptical. I
can plug in but I see fire works inside. I don't dare plug in the charger
untill this is fixed. Seems that both the receptical and the plug are now
bad. After 25 years I guess things do break. I can't find anything about
the center switch in the receptical in the manual. I think I'll rewire it
with a relay but that won't work unless I'm charging. Are there off the
shelf recepticals with that switch wired in? Four connectors 12v & 120vdc
& a switch in the center. NC. When pluged in open. Not sure what it is
but it is now FUBAR.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
2k to 3.5k. Good luck. LR............
----- Original Message -----
From: "J Mac" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 7:02 PM
Subject: Retail Value of 2001 Gem Utility?
What is a good range to consider for buying:
2001 GEM Utility
(don't yet know if it's the short bed or long bed)
2 Passenger
Rear plexi-glass window
Staked Bed
Locking truck toolbox
100 miles
Are there any online resources for this (blue book type of info)?
Thanks,
Mac
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Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- Begin Message ---
Discussing politics, religion, etc. is prohibited on this list.
This list generates a lot of bandwidth and the members of the list have
voted to avoid generating even more bandwidth on subjects that are not
directly related to building, driving, and improving EVs.
Please leave politics (in ANY and ALL forms) off the list.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The vision a compact street car with a 500 mile range.
> It would be pure electric to the wheels and may have a
> gasoline, diesel, or other fossil fuel type of
> engine-generator. It would have a 30 minute reserve in
> the batteries for surge power.
You will probably find it more efficient to go with a parrallel hybrid
(ICE and/or electric motor driving the wheels) rather than a series hybrid
(ICE drives generator which powers electric motor to drive the wheels).
Or better yet a combination.
Every time you change energy or power from one form to another you suffer
losses. Generally speaking you can maximize effeciency by minimizing
losses, i.e. avoiding un-necessary changes.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Listers,
I will soon need to replace the tires on my truck so this is a timely
discussion for me. My Nissan pickup has 215/65 15 tires on it now. Can I put a
narrower tire on the rims it has now, namely the Michelin Agilis 205/65 15
tires Otmar spoke about, without causing any damage or handling problems? I
spoke with the sales counter people at Sears and of course they recommended
against it saying that it could cause problems with ABS and 4x4 systems. I
don't have 4x4 but I do have ABS. Now I don't know if they were just being good
little sales people or if they actually knew what they were talking about. They
didn't even know what LRR tires were but you never know what they could be
right about. As with most people on the list, I don't care about noise, ride
harshness, etc., all I want is better mileage.
Also, I found a web page, http://www.i-zapp.com/e-quad/ , that has a
really cool modification for a kids Powerwheels cart. The web site hasn't been
updated since 2001 and e-mails to them go unanswered so I can't buy the plans.
Does anyone on the list have a copy of the plans they would like to sell? If
not, does anyone know how wide a rear axle would work on this and what diameter
of tire do the tires on the site look like? I've seen these kinds of cars at
garage sales and thrift shops a million times dirt cheap so I know I can pick
one up for nothing. Thanks for any help and/or advice on the questions.
John Shelton
__________________________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Why do you want to change to narrower tires?
For the same tire pressure and tire construction, the rolling resistance
will be less for a wider tire. (because the deflection will be less)
The reasons bicycle tires are very narrow have more to do with weight and
air drag than rolling resistance. Also, narrow bike tires can be made to
handle higher pressure more easily ( the tire stresses are lower for a given
pressure if the tire is narrower) so that narrower tires can indirectly
result in lower rolling resistance by allowing higher pressure. Also,
because the stresses within a narrower tire are lower, that allows for
thinner, more flexible sidewalls; that can also result in lower rolling
resistance.
But these benefits doesn't apply to car tires - narrower tires don't allow
for higher pressures ( and, I don't believe, thinner sidewalls) Also, I
don't think the weight difference would be significant in a car.
Phil Marino
Rochester, NY
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Tires again and Powerwheels
Date: Mon, 14 Mar 2005 06:35:52 -0500
Listers,
I will soon need to replace the tires on my truck so this is a timely
discussion for me. My Nissan pickup has 215/65 15 tires on it now. Can I
put a narrower tire on the rims it has now, namely the Michelin Agilis
205/65 15 tires Otmar spoke about, without causing any damage or handling
problems? I spoke with the sales counter people at Sears and of course they
recommended against it saying that it could cause problems with ABS and 4x4
systems. I don't have 4x4 but I do have ABS. Now I don't know if they were
just being good little sales people or if they actually knew what they were
talking about. They didn't even know what LRR tires were but you never know
what they could be right about. As with most people on the list, I don't
care about noise, ride harshness, etc., all I want is better mileage.
Also, I found a web page, http://www.i-zapp.com/e-quad/ , that has a
really cool modification for a kids Powerwheels cart. The web site hasn't
been updated since 2001 and e-mails to them go unanswered so I can't buy
the plans. Does anyone on the list have a copy of the plans they would like
to sell? If not, does anyone know how wide a rear axle would work on this
and what diameter of tire do the tires on the site look like? I've seen
these kinds of cars at garage sales and thrift shops a million times dirt
cheap so I know I can pick one up for nothing. Thanks for any help and/or
advice on the questions.
John Shelton
__________________________________________________________________
Switch to Netscape Internet Service.
As low as $9.95 a month -- Sign up today at
http://isp.netscape.com/register
Netscape. Just the Net You Need.
New! Netscape Toolbar for Internet Explorer
Search from anywhere on the Web and block those annoying pop-ups.
Download now at http://channels.netscape.com/ns/search/install.jsp
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Don�t just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guys,
I just came across these motors on Ebay and was thinking they
could make interesting hub motors (maybe unsprung weight is an
issue) or other direct drive motors for an EV. The seller has
two for sale ending today.(Items 3880182576 and 3880182438)
http://tinyurl.com/6zjd3
Two of those would give you 800 ft-lb of torque on the wheels
and none of the driveshaft, differential problems that we heard
from John Wayland. Wow! I have no idea about the top speed but with
direct drive I guess one only needs 600 - 1000 RPM depending on the
tire size to achieve a reasonable top speed.
Shipping these 120# motors is not going to be cheap, plus there
is a $50 crating fee but it looks like the motors are gonna go
for little money (possibly). Of course it would take
somebody like Rob Hower to make a controller for them as that is not
included.
Anyhow, wish I had the time and know-how to play with
them myself ... sigh ... know nothing about the seller
- just passing on the pointer.
Markus
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it possible to contact the widow and find out where the stuff went?
Since it seems NiCads have to be paid by the recyclee to be recycled, the
current possessor of the cells might be willing to give them to you for
(next to) nothing. As Pete said, they must be somewhere nearby....
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Peter VanDerWal
> Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 12:17 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
>
> Damn! Well my guess is that it got sold to someone else in Tucson or
> Phoenix, there was a LOT of stuff there, motors, generators, trucks, etc.
> typical government surplus junk.
> Wouldn't be cost effective to hual it very far, at least not for another
> junk dealer.
>
>> Peter,
>>
>> I went by the Surplus place today and it is empty! just some 55 gal
>> metal drums and the building. I talked to somebody down the road who
>> has a off road buggy business and he said that the owner died a couple
>> months ago and the wife never really liked the business and sold all the
> merchandize.
>> No word as to who. So that's it for the used nicads, connectors and
>> boxes that were there.
>>
>> Rush
>> Tucson AZ
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>
>>
>>> At a $1 a piece for interconnects, it would be cheaper to buy the
>>> used NiCad batteries packs at I-10 surplus. Pull the cells out and
>>> store them
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this outgoing message.
>> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
>> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know all you guys that bought these cells want them yesterday :-))
Please bear with me.
I got a great deal from a friend of my father-in-law's, (he used to drive
for him).
His shipping rate to get the cells to me are 75% of the next lowest quote
I received. PLUS he will unload the pallets into his warehouse and let me
re-package them in his warehouse for forwarding out west. He will then
truck them to the western destinations for us. (kind of a one stop shop
for shipping).
I will let the group(s) know in an off-list e-mail what his cost will be
to ship them and then the individual groups can say yes or no to use his
offer. (but, I don't think it can be beat).
In the meantime, I have quite a few people waiting to see if any more
cell's are available. I won't know until the shipment arrives and I can
get a real count as to how many there are.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Had a few questions, I started a conversion 9 days ago on a 2000 Kia Sephia.
Last night I took it for the first test drive. Much better than expected. It
got to 45mph very quickly, but had to go through all 5 speeds. (I find it
hard to believe that the 96 Volt record in NEDRA is only 40 mph in the 1/8)
I went clutchless. I read all the past posts on clutch vs. clutchless and
the article by Bob up North and decided to go clutchless because it was much
easier. I was a little leery about shifting through the gears but was
impressed how easy and quick the Kia shifted . The first question involves
the compound wound motor I am using. I have asked in the past about compound
motors and have had some very good advice but never really had a chance to
experiment until now. I cruised around town for about 5 miles. Pulling 500
Amps starting off in 1st the Kia just jumps right out there and then tops
out and stays the same and I am forced to shift, there is no wind out, which
is normal because the shunt winding is keeping the compound motor at a
certain speed. (As I understand it) I understand that I need to reduce the
voltage to the shunt winding to get a little more top end rpm, but WHY
should one NEVER run a compound motor without ANY voltage on the shunt
winding? Wouldn't it act like a series motor if the shunt winding was not
hooked up? Would it actually harm the motor if I removed the voltage on the
shunt winding at the time it tops out? Another questions was about the
batteries. I am using 8 12V 550 CCA Dual Cycle batteries. Eventually I will
go to Orbitals but I have to live with what I have for now. I was always
taught that 1.75 VPC was considered a dead battery. Which is 84 volts for a
96 volt pack. After just a few minutes of driving the pack was going below
84 Volts under load. I am way under on batts or is this normal? Have not
tried going until they died. Wanted to stay close to home base until I get
to know my range. How does one know when their pack is about dead? When
voltage dips below this marker of 1.75 VPC? When under no load voltage is
below 2 VPC? What is a good indicator in EV's that you won't go much
further? Thanks, Jack.
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--- Begin Message ---
I'll prob go into Tucson tomorrow, I'll stop by and see if there is anybody
around that might know where the stuff went. But from what the guy I talked to
said and his tone of voice, I think that the chances of the widow cooperating
are pretty slim.
I'll give it a try.
Rush
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 7:42 AM
Subject: RE: BB-600 Nicad Cells - connectors
> Is it possible to contact the widow and find out where the stuff went?
>
> Since it seems NiCads have to be paid by the recyclee to be recycled, the
> current possessor of the cells might be willing to give them to you for
> (next to) nothing. As Pete said, they must be somewhere nearby....
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.2 - Release Date: 3/11/2005
--- End Message ---
