EV Digest 4196
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Anyone want to reply to a Fool Cell supporter?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Rabbit replacement
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Just some trivia...
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) BB600 Cells - really bad news!
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Perf Upgrade using EV components
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Dual Charging
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: power steering and AC, was Re: DC DC Converter
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Available RangerEV - New Information
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Series-parallel switch
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) I Like ICE's
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: More usable list format...tried that
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Available RangerEV - New Information
by "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Real Winner ot
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: EV-1 Vigil
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the ego.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) , Re: Jacks EV was Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the ego.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: BB600 Cells - really bad news!
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: I Like ICE's
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Range trailer
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: power steering and AC, was Re: DC DC Converter
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Discussion on Slashdot:
horza has posted a comment in reply to your comment.
Re:Another Fool Cell
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=142856&cid=11974320
I just don't have my materials handy, and don't have the time right now.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Some cautions: Honda quit making the CRX, and the Del Sol. The
Insight is not a great seller, and I fear for its longevity. Two
seater cars have traditionally been a tough sell for any car company,
particularly two seaters that are not high performance.
The Prius, on the other hand, is a four seater and looks to be
selling well. It has a 0.26 Cd (compared to 0.25 for the Insight).
This might make it a better "next generation rabbit" for electric
conversion.
An economy conversion kit might start with one "good" Prius and one
wrecked one. Yank the ICE and replace with the electric parts from
the wrecked Prius. The same idea could be done with the Insight, too.
> >From: John Shelton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: [email protected]
> >Subject: Rabbit replacement
> >Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 20:42:35 +0900
> >
> >With all the talk about copying the EV1, I thought I'd share my
> plans
> >for my EV. I think we already have a great replacement for the
> EV1,
> >the Honda Insight. My plans are to drive my little old 72v rabbit
> and
> >slowly upgrade all the components as I can afford to. I'll have a
> >functional EV that only gets better. This is going to be my
> learning
> >curve car that I can make mistakes with. I've seen a few 100,000+
> mile
> >Insights on Ebay for about $5000 and they will only get cheaper.
> If
> >I'm lucky, I'll be able to find one with a blown engine or ruined
> >battery pack. The target price I'm hoping to get is $2-3000. Then
> I'll
> >put all the components in the insight and have a killer,
> lightweight
> >EV. It has great aerodynamics and if you cover the bottom and
> block
> >the front air vents and it gets even better. I think that would be
> a
> >great car to use as the new EV standard, the new Voltsrabbit
> >replacement. Whatta ya think Mike Brown?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Make Yahoo! your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Dymaxion wrote:
>The bigger crime is how great the EV1 is/was, and how
>sluggy the EV+,
>Rav4EV, Ranger EV, and TEV were.
I agree with that statement 100%. Not very many people wants
a slug, and those certainly are slugs. They were great at
getting you from point a to point b, but such performance
would be no fun. Even still, I'd gladly take one over a gas
chugger, even if I was offered, say, a Lotus Elise(almost a
dream car of mine if it weren't for the fuel it consumed)
over it. They certainly suited most of the needs of normal
people though, just with one-third to one-half the range of
a gas car.
The EV1 had a lot of dead weight added to it over the Impact
though. It ended up weighing 2,900 pounds! A bit porky for a
'sports car', I think(Although I'm of the opinion that
anything at or over 3,000 pounds is way too big for my
tastes, and prefer anything at or below 2,600). Still not as
bad as 3,300 pound Ferraris and Corvettes, but still
overweight. Had that 2,900 pounds been exclusively from
extra battery weight instead of dead weight, the EV1 could
have maybe gone as far as its NiMH version on lead acid
batteries. Or had the car been kept as light as the Impact,
but with the 135 horsepower motor/inverter combo, its 0-60
may have ended up in the high 6 second to low 7 second range
instead of ~8 seconds. For the mid 1990s, that was really
damn fast!
A real crime was ditching Cocconi's charger built right into
the inverter, trying to instead peddle an expensive and more
complicated piece of crap that also caught fire on a few
documented occassions.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Man this sucks!!
I just came back from the warehouse where the batteries are sitting.
At first I thought it would be really great news! There was actually 10
pallets and not 6 as advertised in the invitation for bid.
But! The government really screwed up the invitation for bid, apparently.
On the 10 pallets, were 10 boxes, except for one which had 8. Inside each
box were two boxes and each of those contained 19 cells. The outer boxes
had a label on them that said they contained 2 boxes and were 138 lbs. And
that's where the gov't screwed up. They multiplied the 2 boxes by the 138
lbs, but it was 136 lbs for the 2 boxes. In other words instead of 32096
lbs of cells there is actually only 16048 lbs. Which means half as many as
originally thought.
To be fair, I decided to split these up on a first come first served basis,
The sad news is that basically no cells will be headed to the west coast.
I'm really sorry that it worked out this way. I was really excited to be
able to get these into the EV community at such a great deal, and now I am
feeling really, really low.
Those who have one coming, a refund is in process.
Sorry!!!
--
Stay Charged! anyway
Hump
"Whether you think you can or think you can't, you are right!" --Henry Ford
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking to enhance the performance of my Mitsu Fuso truck weighing in at
11,300 lbs, loaded. It has a 4 cyl turbo diesel and all I can find from diesel
shops are typical ICE upgrades, chips, larger injectors, larger turbos, etc.
There is a lot of room for batteries under this thing and if I can find a motor
with some sort of rubber tire mounted on the shaft as seen on some roller
coasters or log jammer rides, I may be able to transfer this power to my
driveline shaft possibly via the emergency brake drum. I can maybe put the
motor on a swing arm system with a motorized arm to pressure up against the
drum and swing it away when not needed. Has anybody on this list tried this or
know if this type of setup would even give me a performance upgrade? All
comments appreciated.
Gabe Alarcon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Now wait a minute... If this will work, why am I not using 12V automotive
bulbs. Hmmmm, I guess I hadn't thought it all the way through and just
grabbed what I had on hand.
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Dual Charging
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 10:13:48 -0700
I wasn't planning on 120V bulbs. For the 13A portion, for example, what
about 13 12V automotive bulbs in parallel at 1A each? That's 13A * 12V =
156W. For the 8A string: 8A * 13V = 104W, making 260W total. Not too
much
energy. At 10 cents per kWh, this would take about 4 hours to cost me a
dime. Nicads would be charged by then.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of damon henry
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 9:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Dual Charging
21 amps of current being regulated by light bulbs is a lot of light. You
may want to charge next to the local ball field and help illuminate the
game:-)
According to my lightbulb math, which may be flawed... If you are using
120V
light bulbs you will be using up 2500+ watts in lighting. That's 25 100
watt bulbs blazing away.
When I charge my 48V pack at 3.4 amps using light bulbs I light up my whole
garage quite nicely. Light bulbs are convenient and inexpensive, but they
definitely burn up energy.
damon
>From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: Dual Charging
>Date: Thu, 17 Mar 2005 22:47:31 -0700
>
>I've been struggling with how to charge both the Nicad and TS cells that
>will be in my conversion. I could charge them separately, but that
would
>require either multiple chargers, or a single charger that I'd have to
>adjust between Nicad and TS every time.
>
>So what about charging both packs simultaneously? Here's a (possibly
>wacky)
>idea I've come up with. Please feel free to shoot holes in it, or make
>suggestions on how to improve it.
>
>1) PFC-30 charger is hooked to both packs in parallel
>2) The connection between the PFC-30 and the Nicads is made by two
>parallel
>strings of light bulbs, one set for 13A and the other for 8A
>3) The connection to the TS cells is direct
>4) With the PFC-30 set for 30A, initially the Nicads get 21A and the TS
>cell 9A
>5) After some period of time, a timer turns off the 13A string of bulbs,
>so
>now the Nicads are getting 8A and the TS cells 22A
>6) After another period of time, a timer turns off the 8A string, so
>charging for the Nicads is completed, and the TS cells are getting the
full
>30A
>7) The BMS modules on the TS cells take care of making sure that the TS
>cells don't get overcharged -- maybe they can even talk to the PFC-30 in
>some way. I'll have to ask Herr Rudman about it.
>
>That's the idea, and if it works, maybe I can sell if for $50,000,000 on
>Ebay :)
>
>Let me know your feedback.
>
>Thanks.
>
>Bill Dennis
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
While a MR2 system is nice, it causes other
problems and is costly both in it's costs and higher
DC/DC costs.
What problems, really? I've been using my Prizm for a few years now and
the power steering is totally flawless. It does suck a fair bit of juice
but only when turning at very low speeds or stopped.
I find power steering to be one of the nicest features on this EV. I'd
have to have to manhandle the wheel with all that extra weight.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just spoke with Ms. Pilotti,
She has already got such a response to my earlier post, her cup runneth
over. She asked that people not call, but email only instead. She will
be making a waiting list, and forwarding a file of the email requests
up the ladder at Ford so they know of the response. If your email is
kicked back, please resend after a while. Please honor her request for
no more phone calls. I think more of her time will go to getting these
cars back on the road if she isn't fielding dozens of phone calls.
Ms Pilotti also said 80-90% of current ongoing leaseholders, who Ford
is contacting, are opting to purchase now. Many ex-leaseholder are
asking for their RangerEVs back. As it looks now, there will be very
few vehicles available to new applicants.
Fleets, on the other hand, often are maintaining their leases in order
to continue with warranty coverage. These vehicles will become
available when and if they are returned to Ford.
Bottom line, if you want a RangerEV, email Fran Pilotti. But don't get
your hopes too high.,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marc Geller
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
> At 72-144V input voltage each, could 3 of these SD-200s be connected in
> series on the inputs for a 348V pack, with their outputs connected in
> parallel?
No; you can't wire DC/DC converter inputs in series. They are not
resistors; the voltage will not divide evenly between them unless you
*force* them to all operate at exactly the same output power all the
time. In most cases, there is no way to force them to do this.
But what you *can* do is connect each one across 1/3rd the pack. Then
connect their outputs in parallel (each through a commoning diode).
Adjust their output voltages to be the same; this means the voltage drop
across each commoning diode is the same, therefore, they are all
deliveing about the same current. This means their input currents are
the same, and they won't unbalance the pack.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> While we are on the subject, Has anyone considered series parallel
> hybrid packs? Take a lithium ion pack and a PbA pack in parallel
> from the start then once at cruise put them in series.
Not a bad idea; it's probably what Edison would have tried if he had
lithium batteries in his day. Being an inveterate tinkerer, he might
have gotten it to work!
The main challenge with any hybrid battery is deciding how you will
monitor and control the charge/discharge current and state of charge of
each pack. Certain types of batteries and voltages for the two packs
might make this "easy" (i.e. they could basically be switched directly
in series or parallel some/all of the time). But the more general-case
solution will involve some way to control things better. Maybe just
carefully chosen resistors; but more likely some kind of electronic
DC/DC converter between the packs.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm a fan of EV's, don't get me wrong, I think all transportation among the
cities should be on ev's, regarding highway trips, there will be a solution
either for charging times or for suppliying ev's with energy while they run,
(a trolley or something, even microwave transmission of energy, who knows
?).
The fact is that I like AC cobras, Mustangs, Camaros, and to make it short
"Muscle Cars", but those do not harm the environment, most of them are in
garages, waiting for the weekend, for an ocational trip to a meet or to the
mall, basically those are too costly to drive, (the car and the fuel)at 3 to
5 mpg, most people do not use them. Their owners do not take them out if it
rains, there are serious insurance problems, and if damaged they can be lost
forever.
So My view of the future is:
All EV for transportation, and ICE's in museums and private parties to feast
our eyes (and ears) once in a while.
Regarding the ICE's used daily today, they will dissapear or be converted,
who would want a toyota in a museum ? :))
Well, Am I that wrong ????
Ivo.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 18 Mar 2005 at 8:24, Ryan Bohm wrote:
> The only thing that seems like it could use change IMO, is a threaded
> archive of the list.
A few years back I was planning to build an online archive with Mhonarc,
which does a reasonable job of handling threads and is pretty flexible. I
bought the domain name evdl.org and leased a chunk of server space.
But the more I looked at the traffic, the more I realized that it just wasn't
practical until I had my own server, rather than a leased one. I don't
remember any more what I calculated for the amount of storage required, but
it was daunting.
Then we got the mail-archive storage, thanks to one of our members (Mike
Chancey, IIRC). That made the project even less urgent, so it's languished
for a long time now.
If I don't find a way to host a threaded current archive (which seems like it's
not likely any time soon), at some point I'm at least going to post a static
deep archive, with EVDL posts going back to the mid-1990s, to supplement
Mike's current one.
Meanwhile, if there's anyone on the list who has a fairly fast full-time
internet
connection, lots of server space, the chops to build the archive, and plenty of
spare time - well, I hope he or she will consider taking on this project.
David Roden
Assistant EV List Administrator
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A waiting list for ford rangers EV's ?
Didn't I read that GM was dumping the EV1 because no people were intrested ?
I am confused: :))
Ivo
-----Mensaje original-----
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
nombre de Marc Geller
Enviado el: viernes, 18 de marzo de 2005 14:38
Para: RAV4 EV; EV Discussion; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Club EV1
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asunto: Available RangerEV - New Information
I just spoke with Ms. Pilotti,
She has already got such a response to my earlier post, her cup runneth
over. She asked that people not call, but email only instead. She will
be making a waiting list, and forwarding a file of the email requests
up the ladder at Ford so they know of the response. If your email is
kicked back, please resend after a while. Please honor her request for
no more phone calls. I think more of her time will go to getting these
cars back on the road if she isn't fielding dozens of phone calls.
Ms Pilotti also said 80-90% of current ongoing leaseholders, who Ford
is contacting, are opting to purchase now. Many ex-leaseholder are
asking for their RangerEVs back. As it looks now, there will be very
few vehicles available to new applicants.
Fleets, on the other hand, often are maintaining their leases in order
to continue with warranty coverage. These vehicles will become
available when and if they are returned to Ford.
Bottom line, if you want a RangerEV, email Fran Pilotti. But don't get
your hopes too high.,
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Marc Geller
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 15/03/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Q: Can you offer any evidence that you have any idea what you
are talking about? Hopefully not "generators in the wheels" or "windmill on
the hood". There...more answered on: Mar-17-05
A: This is an idea you do not get a finished product. Which
your statement(s) and lack of questions insinuate that you need a finished
product to believe
Why do I still get a laugh out of this stuff, :-) , I have noticed an
alarming trend , there seem's to be a steady decline in the "gen on a wheel
" pouplation , new EV'ers who have not bagged one may be hard pressed to
find one . It may be that 'Hunters " have pumped so much money out of this
free thinking group that they are near extinction.
steve clunn
----- Original Message -----
From: "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 4:09 PM
Subject: Real Winner
Now, here's a winner:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=50552&item=5761261229&rd=1
This guy will tell you how to build an electric car that doesn't have to be
plugged in.
Could it be a hybrid??
Idea is only 6.5% of $50,000,000 to learn about and there is a 50% money
back
guarantee if it doesn't work. So, bid with confidence!
* LP8.2: HTML/Attachments detected, removed from message *
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:19:40 -0800
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;
format=flowed;
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reply-type=original
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Gabe
Do you have 2 rear axles?
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Perf Upgrade using EV components
I am looking to enhance the performance of my Mitsu Fuso truck weighing in
at 11,300 lbs, loaded. It has a 4 cyl turbo diesel and all I can find from
diesel shops are typical ICE upgrades, chips, larger injectors, larger
turbos, etc. There is a lot of room for batteries under this thing and if I
can find a motor with some sort of rubber tire mounted on the shaft as seen
on some roller coasters or log jammer rides, I may be able to transfer this
power to my driveline shaft possibly via the emergency brake drum. I can
maybe put the motor on a swing arm system with a motorized arm to pressure
up against the drum and swing it away when not needed. Has anybody on this
list tried this or know if this type of setup would even give me a
performance upgrade? All comments appreciated.
Gabe Alarcon
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:23:09 -0800
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: EV-1 Vigil
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> What if instead we could use the "amazing" Electrovair II in our
> favor somehow. The fact that they made that car way back in 1966!
>
> http://www.cardatabase.net/static/Chevrolet/Electrovair_II.php
The irony goes even deeper. The Electrovair II was nearly a dead ringer
for the EV1 technologically. Same size, weight, top speed, and range.
Same high-voltage high-tech battery design. Same 100kw 3-phase AC
inverter, with oil-cooled AC induction motor and no transmission, etc.
Today, GM has left no history that they ever built the Electrovairs. The
only proof that they ever existed is outside of GM, in the magazine
articles and SAE papers -- and in the one Electrovair II that somehow
got into the hands of the CORSA national Corvair Club. I got to see this
car in their museum in Richmond VA in 1996. It is complete -- even the
silver-zinc batteries are still in it!
GM also built an hydrogen-cell fuelled minivan in 1967. It was also
highly touted as "the future". Ever hear of it? It has also disappeared
without a trace.
This is the fate I expect for the EV1 -- as well as for any future
fuel-cell vehicles that GM builds. They will milk them for all publicity
and government money they can get. And then disappear...
I happen to *have* a 1965 Corvair. And, I am interested in doing an AC
EV as my next conversion. All the news about the EV1 has me thinking
that perhaps it should be an Electrovair III -- a new version of the
1966 Electrovair, built with salvaged EV1 components (if I can find
enough of them).
Good used Corvairs are pretty easy to come by. Is anyone else
interested?
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:25:55 -0800
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the ego.
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> How about using NaOH (lye) or some other electrolyte that *doesn't*
> have a anion with dangerous byproducts?
That would work. Of course, you would then liberate H2 and O2 gas, which
has its own problems. But, they are more straightforward to deal with.
For example, burn the hydrogen. :-)
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 12:06:30 -0700
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Anyone else see this or know anything about this short blurb in the 3/17/20=
05 AZ Republic page B4, bottom right quarter? I am assuming it is a complet=
e mis-statement by the normally misguided and inaccurate staffers but I wan=
t to make sure. I figure it is some cross confuguliation of the normal Phoe=
nix EAA meeting that is normally held on the 3 Sat, but it is funny how it =
plays right into GMs mis-information campaign.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
-------------------------------------
Electric cars join show in Pavilions parking lot
SCOTTSDALE- See the automotive equivalent of a dinosaur Saturday in the McD=
onald's parking lot at the Pavilions, Pima and Indian Bend Roads. Members o=
f the Electric Auto Association-Phoenix Chapter will start gathering with t=
heir EV-1s at about 2 PM and will be available to talk about their cars fro=
m 4 PM until dark. Unlike most of the classic cars in the lot, the EV-1s on=
display are relatively new, the product of a four-year GM experiment with =
electric cars.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------=
--------------------------------------
Hmm, if this is true I want to know as although I have a lot going on tomor=
row I will dump EVerything and be there.=20
Hope the EV-1s are securely looked after, everyone here in Phx knows how ma=
ny cars are stolen every day and end up south of the border, never to be he=
ard of or seen again. I wonder what a mini storage in Sonora goes for? Davi=
d Chapman.
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:25:26 -0800
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It's a single rear axle truck with dual wheels...
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Dave<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>=20
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>=20
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Gabe
Do you have 2 rear axles?
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it=
=20
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----=20
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Perf Upgrade using EV components
I am looking to enhance the performance of my Mitsu Fuso truck weighing i=
n=20
at 11,300 lbs, loaded. It has a 4 cyl turbo diesel and all I can find fr=
om=20
diesel shops are typical ICE upgrades, chips, larger injectors, larger=20
turbos, etc. There is a lot of room for batteries under this thing and i=
f I=20
can find a motor with some sort of rubber tire mounted on the shaft as se=
en=20
on some roller coasters or log jammer rides, I may be able to transfer th=
is=20
power to my driveline shaft possibly via the emergency brake drum. I can=
=20
maybe put the motor on a swing arm system with a motorized arm to pressur=
e=20
up against the drum and swing it away when not needed. Has anybody on th=
is=20
list tried this or know if this type of setup would even give me a=20
performance upgrade? All comments appreciated.
Gabe Alarcon
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:27:55 -0800 (PST)
From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: , Re: Jacks EV was Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the ego.
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Jack, Jack, Jack,
--- Jack Knopf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I think you guys need to learn how to read. I said I
And I would have though you knew how not to be
insulting!
We can read just fine. You on the other hand jump
to conclusions about stuff you know little about ;-p
This list on the other hand have thousands of
man yrs of EV experience, more than any other place
in the world by far. And you know more?
> could make one that
> would handle 2000 plus amps. I went for another test
And just what size would this 2000amp controller
be? Bigger than your batt pack and weigh almost as
much I'd bet and need a large cooling system. Not to
mention the force needed to move it! No?
No one has said it won't work, just it has
disadvantages.
How long to replace the plates as electrolysis
eats them up?
How much battery power does it waste? It's just a
variable resistor, No?
Would you like to bet on which controller would
win a race, your's or a Zilla?
Do you even know why?
> drive tonight and
> everything went as predicted. When Electrolyte
> controller maxed out ,
> contactor kicked in with very smooth acceleration up
> to 60 mph. Wouldn't a
But it still is only eff at that speed with a
contactor, No?
How much power do you lose at 20,30, 40, 50 mph?
> contactor controller be jerk, jerk, jerk?
Interesting choice of words ;-0
But it isn't as bad as you think if you design it
right and much more eff, longer range than yours.
And yours is so bad you need a CC to make it work
even moderately well as you have shown. Otherwise why
would you need a contactor? To improve it?
CC can have many speeds, easily up to 10 if you
want. It's about like an automatic transmission when
shifting, hardly noticable when designed right. And
they are much lighter weight than yours.
Your style controller has been known for 100+
yrs. Why isn't it used? We've discussed it many times
over the yrs.
> Orbitals
> were always the plan, but
> my Wal-Marts are fine for now. Is not the world
But didn't you say you wanted an inexpensive EV?
Doesn't wasting $400 in batts violate that premise?
Thus doubling your batt costs? Either you are low cost
or your not, make up your mind!
Especially when you could have had good, long
lasting batts, cost effective for the same money had
you just asked?
> record for the 1/8 only 40
> mph for the 96 volt class? Is www.nedra.com wrong?
> Time will tell.
Yes it will!
People here have been nice to you and try to help
you, think about it.
Waiting for your answers, Bet you won't
answer each one!
jerry dycus
> Jack.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 7:21 PM
> Subject: Jacks EV was Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses
> help the ego.
>
>
> > Hi Jack and All,
> > --- Jack Knopf <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >> I got my gas mask from a well thought of surplus
> >> guy! The fact is I now
> >> driving around town daily in my Kia Sephia with a
> >> controller that has no
> >> electronic parts that anyone could build for
> under
> >> $100. Perfect Control ,
> >> good acceleration. Tonight I am going to try a
> >
> > You are not the only one doing this for that
> > price but a contactor controller will be more eff
> as
> > well as lower cost.
> > You will only be eff at full speed where a CC
> > will be at several speeds, up to 10.
> > And as for it being a 2000amp controller,
> thanks
> > for the laugh, I can always use one ;-))
> > I can garranty that a Zilla will always beat
> the
> > pants off of any one of your type C you can build
> or
> > even a contactor C for that matter for several
> reasons
> > you will learn.
> > A good idea is read about a yrs worth of posts
> > and you'll learn a lot and save yourself a lot of
> > money and have a better EV.
> >
> >> contactor at the top end and
> >> see how much of a jerk there is. I tried the
> >> contactor last night while
> >> parked and there was just a slight rpm increase.
> >> Should be a nice transition
> >> and the electrolyte won't get as hot. Go ahead
> and
> >> laugh, get it out of your
> >
> > I'm probably the reigning king of cheap EV's,
> > controllers and it was a good laugh ;-)
> > Your's main problems are ineff, only being eff
> at
> > one speed, always having to refill it, ect.
> > You could combine it with a CC to get more
> speeds
> > that are eff and just use the water controller for
> > smooth startup.
> > Your idea of a contactor at full speed is a
> good
> > one. Add to that series/parallel batts with tranny
> > speeds and it could be a nice, fairly eff set-up.
> >
> >> system. :) I timed my self in the 1/8 last night
> at
> >> 45 mph easy. And they
> >> are right about just adding more plates for more
> >> amperage. I started out
> >> with 2 plates for 150 amps, 4 plates gave me 300
> >> amps. I now have 6 plates.
> >> I am using eight Wal-Mart batteries. I just did
> my
> >
> > Not for long!!!! They won't last very long but
> ok
> > for learning, about 20-50 cycles. Boy will you
> learn!
> > Next time get true deep cycles by Trojan or US
> > batt for a much lower life cycle costs.
> > For more range and even longer life next time
> you
> > should consider T-105 type 6vdc golf cart batts.
> Again
> > only US batt or Trojan if you are smart.
> >
> >> Kia conversion in about
> >> 80 hours for under $800. You just don't realize
> how
> >
> > But how long will it last? If you get correct
> > batts your cost will be much less/mile.
> >
> >> many people there are
> >> out there that really, really want to build an EV
> >> but can not afford to buy
> >> these expensive controllers and such. I found a
> 15
> >
> > I agree but all these thing have been well
> tested
> > before, there is little new in EV's!!!
> > I've built an EV from scratch for under $800 so
> > it's not that hard. People have been doing it for
> > 120+yrs!!
> >
> >> inch, 2 foot long
> >> forklift motor at a machine shop the other day
> for
> >> $300. When I get it in my
> >> Kia, I will See ya at the track,
> >
> > You''ll lose big time!! For one thing you will
> > kill those cheap batts of yours in just a couple
> runs
> > with disappointing results.
> > Now get 10 Orbitals and you might have a fun EV
> at
> > the track with that big motor but you stiil ain't
> > going to get anywhere near him.
> > Before you spend much more, ask the list and
> save
> > yourself a lot of bucks! Had you done that you
> would
> > have saved the $400 or so you wasted on your
> batts.
> > There are a bunch of us who enjoy cheap EV's
> but
> > there is penny wise and pound foolish ways to go
> as
> > you are doing.
> > HTH's,
> > jerry dycus
> >> Jack.
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >> To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> >> Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 1:50 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the
> ego.
> >>
> >>
> >> > >At 1:07 PM -0600 3-17-05, Jack Knopf wrote:
> >> >>>You don't have to worry about that! I think I
> can
> >> get more that a
> >> >>>mere 2000 amps from one of my controllers.
> >> >>>Jack.
> >> >>
> >> >>And...!? Were waiting with baited breath. Tell
> us
> >> what you're running!
> >> >>Is it a contactor control? What batteries do
> you
> >> have?
> >> >>It's starting to sound like fun when 2000 amps
> is
> >> "a mere 2000 amps". :-)
> >> >>--
> >> >>-Otmar-
> >> >
> >> > Isn't Jack's the
> >> dipping-metal-plates-in-salt-water design that
> >> brought up
> >> > the
> >> > discussion of chlorine gas release? If that's
> the
> >> case, then the current
> >> > is
> >> > only limited by the size of plates you use (and
> >> the efficiency of your gas
> >> > mask).
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:33:01 -0800
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: BB600 Cells - really bad news!
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This is (in a way) good news for me: I was really dejected that I
couldn't afford to purchase any at this time, but since I'm on the west
coast ... I wouldn't have gotten them anyway!
Tim, thanks for the effort in any case.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
>Man this sucks!!
>
>I just came back from the warehouse where the batteries are sitting.
>
>At first I thought it would be really great news! There was actually 10
>pallets and not 6 as advertised in the invitation for bid.
>
>But! The government really screwed up the invitation for bid, apparently.
>
>
>On the 10 pallets, were 10 boxes, except for one which had 8. Inside each
>box were two boxes and each of those contained 19 cells. The outer boxes
>had a label on them that said they contained 2 boxes and were 138 lbs. And
>that's where the gov't screwed up. They multiplied the 2 boxes by the 138
>lbs, but it was 136 lbs for the 2 boxes. In other words instead of 32096
>lbs of cells there is actually only 16048 lbs. Which means half as many as
>originally thought.
>
>To be fair, I decided to split these up on a first come first served basis,
>
>The sad news is that basically no cells will be headed to the west coast.
>
>I'm really sorry that it worked out this way. I was really excited to be
>able to get these into the EV community at such a great deal, and now I am
>feeling really, really low.
>
>Those who have one coming, a refund is in process.
>
>Sorry!!!
>
>
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: I Like ICE's
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:33:03 -0800
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Boy, you've hit that nail right on the head. I too, as many other American=
s, have grown to love those muscle cars. Where does that love come from th=
ough? I think it was when I was a kid, seeing those commercials on tv and =
drooling over those cars. The media really worked and it has been tough to=
get out of that love affair. I agree they will always be loved and will o=
ne day be drooling over them at a museum.=20=20
----- Original Message -----=20
From: Ivo Jara<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>=20
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>=20
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:05 AM
Subject: I Like ICE's
I'm a fan of EV's, don't get me wrong, I think all transportation among t=
he
cities should be on ev's, regarding highway trips, there will be a soluti=
on
either for charging times or for suppliying ev's with energy while they r=
un,
(a trolley or something, even microwave transmission of energy, who knows
?).
The fact is that I like AC cobras, Mustangs, Camaros, and to make it short
"Muscle Cars", but those do not harm the environment, most of them are in
garages, waiting for the weekend, for an ocational trip to a meet or to t=
he
mall, basically those are too costly to drive, (the car and the fuel)at 3=
to
5 mpg, most people do not use them. Their owners do not take them out if =
it
rains, there are serious insurance problems, and if damaged they can be l=
ost
forever.
So My view of the future is:
All EV for transportation, and ICE's in museums and private parties to fe=
ast
our eyes (and ears) once in a while.
Regarding the ICE's used daily today, they will dissapear or be converted,
who would want a toyota in a museum ? :))
Well, Am I that wrong ????
Ivo.
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: Range trailer
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 13:38:54 -0600
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I've done a lot of thinking about this as I tow a trailer anyway and often
tow one with 20 or more golf cart batteries loaded on it . here is the
problem as I see it . If your weight to bat weight is 1/3 and your trailer
is 1/2 , your new ratio is going to be some where inbetween 1/3 and 1/2
,probable closer the the 1/3 , not a lot of gain , I could see where it
would be better just as good to get rid of alittle weight instead . It might
pan out better with you as the battery weight in your car is low . so a
triler with 52 golf cart batteries ( your 26 12v ?) . might help , but doing
the math dosn't look so good and when I've had the setup and figure the new
distance/ looking at the meter readings ,,, think i saw maybe 25% , .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Christopher Zach" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, March 17, 2005 5:04 PM
Subject: Range trailer
> Anyone ever towed a trailer of batteries behind an EV for long-range
> trips? I'm thinking of getting something like a small 2 wheeler and
> loading it with either 500lbs of spare Hakwers or 700lbs of NiCDs.
>
> How does it impact range, performance, and the like? My car has a 50kw
> motor so it should be able to handle some weight.
>
> Chris
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 18 Mar 2005 11:50:32 -0800 (PST)
From: jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: power steering and AC, was Re: DC DC Converter
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Hi Chris and All,
--- Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > While a MR2 system is nice, it causes other
> > problems and is costly both in it's costs and
> higher
> > DC/DC costs.
>
> What problems, really? I've been using my Prizm for
Costs, eff in the DC system and buying it vs
buying a pack voltage DC motor and driving the stock
PS pump.
Other than that it seems a great system if you
can't just go to manual variable ratio steering which
is best.
I've used manual steering on many heavy cars,
trucks with no problem so really in all but very heavy
EV's wouldn't go for PS, PB's.
Another reason I stopped buying cars is you
couldn't get even the smallest one without PS,PB, such
a waste but profitable for the dealers, Auto companies
as they break down way too often.
Driving a non PS car, truck, EV is easy, you just
need to move a little, 1 mph will do, and steering
gets real easy without PS, it's costs and weight. Much
better road feel too.
KIS,
jerry dycus
> a few years now and
> the power steering is totally flawless. It does suck
> a fair bit of juice
> but only when turning at very low speeds or stopped.
>
> I find power steering to be one of the nicest
> features on this EV. I'd
> have to have to manhandle the wheel with all that
> extra weight.
>
> Chris
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
