EV Digest 4199
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: I Like ICE's
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Jacks EV
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Renualt LeCar
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Misprint, was Re: Dual Charging
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
5) RE: Jacks EV
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
by "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zilla interface future.
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Advice on electric scooter sought
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Rabbit replacement
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Kilo-Amp-About or Excuses help the ego.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: More usable list format...tried that
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Motor Horsepower questions.
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) force nicad conversion
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: DC DC Converter, series in, parallel out?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV-1 Vigil
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DC DC Converter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Renualt LeCar
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
<< That's exactly what I mean, battery vapors can also sting your eyes abit,
but it will only happen in a badly ventilated area, and with lots of evs
toguether, or when you are peeking directly on a hot battery >>
Not much gets vaporized out of SLAs, and floodeds only do that at the end of
charge or if someone tries drag-racing with them!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Is not the world record for the 1/8 only 40 mph for the 96 volt
>> class? Is www.nedra.com wrong?
>
>I hope it's not that slow. If it is, then nobody has been trying very
hard!
Depends on where he's looking: Joe Smalley hit 42.93mph in 15.06sec with only
48V, while Dean Tryon hit 53.38mph in 13.351sec in the modified production/96v
class, and even the High School class at that voltage did it in 12.396sec at
52.37mph. If Jack wants to compete, he'll have to see what his car is
classified as, and if it will even pass the manditory tech and safety
inspection, but I'm sure the folks at NEDRA would love to add another
competitor.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike wrote:
> Thanks for the info Lee! The motor seems to be fine.
Good! It's a pain to get in and out in the Lectric Leopards.
> The amp guage is in series with the batteries, and it is drawing
> about 150 amps. I think this might be due to the brakes.
That's a lot of power to go just to the brakes. Once you get them fixed,
I expect you'll find other power-wasters. Soft, high rolling resistance
tires, wheel alignment wrong, hot terminals, that sort of thing.
> I was told the wheel cylinders in the rear drum brakes were
> dragging and probably needed to be replaced.
I have rear drum brakes; fairly easy to work on and adjust so they don't
drag. I have more trouble with my front disk brakes dragging.
> Also, what speed should I reach in each gear before I shift up/down.
> I seem to only be able to hit about 25 in 1st, 40 in 2nd, and 45 or
> so in third.
That sounds low; I would expect more with a 48v Prestolite on 96v. But,
I have an Advanced DC 6.7" (nominally 77-96v) at 132v. I can easily hit
30 mph in 1st, 55 mph in 2nd, and 75 mph in 3rd.
> Also, does anybody have any tips on driving an EV for maximum range?
LOTS of them! Driving an EV is quite different. Your battery amp gauge
is your friend. It gives you instant feedback on how much current (and
thus power, since battery voltage is fixed) you are using.
Basically, accellerate slowly to keep the peak current down. Drive
slower, and coast whenever possible. Use your brakes as little as
possible (since you don't have regen). Avoid steep hills. Time yourself
to avoid red lights.
The main danger is to shift into too high a gear, so the motor runs so
slowly that it draws excessive current and doesn't get enough cooling.
You will never need 4th gear, for example. Even 3rd gear should be used
sparingly; only above 45 mph.
With the old "Lectric Leopard" 2-step contactor controller, you will
need to shift. But if you have a PWM controller, you will also find that
first gear is rarely needed. Just leave it in 2nd, and drive like an
automatic (without using the clutch).
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oops! In the sentence "I have a portable 900w charger...", I meant to say 900w
generator - a 30# Chinese knockoff of a Honda model.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >> Is not the world record for the 1/8 only 40 mph for the 96 volt
> >> class? Is www.nedra.com wrong?
> >
> >I hope it's not that slow. If it is, then nobody has been trying very
> >hard!
>
> Depends on where he's looking: Joe Smalley hit 42.93mph in
> 15.06sec with only 48V, while Dean Tryon hit 53.38mph in
> 13.351sec in the modified production/96v class, and even the
> High School class at that voltage did it in 12.396sec at
> 52.37mph.
Jack appears to be looking at the 96V Street Conversion (SC/G) class,
which makes sense given his car is street legal. Jay Lopes has held
this class record at 15.983s and 40.04mph since 2000. This time is
noticably worse than the records for the SC/H (72V) and SC/I (48V)
classes, so it is definitely a class record ripe for the picking. As
Lee notes, it doesn't appear many people have been trying very hard to
reset this particular class record.
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:52:34 -0800, Mark Dodrill <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello all. It's been so unseasonable warm and sunny here in Seattle this
> year, I've been thinking using an electric scooter to get to and from
> work, instead of my car. A full electric car just isn't in the cards
> for me now, but I did get a tax refund that might work.
>
> I'm looking for an electric scooter that meets the following
> requirments:
>
> * It's a 11 mile (~18 km) commute one-way, so I'm sure I would
> need to charge at work.
> * Total elevation change is about 200 feet from start to finish,
> with about a 250 max elevation gain in the middle.
> * Max speed required is 40 mph for about 1 mile
> * Other times speed is between 25 and 35 mph
> * Some rolling hills but I can avoid any steep up/downgrades
> * Full enclosure not required since I plan to ride only when
> it is relatively nice
> * Either homegrown or production would work
> * Efficiency is more important than looks
> * Needs to haul 200 lbs of people and stuff
> * Don't care about battery weight, size, or chemistry, as long as it works
> * Needs to have a seat
> * Probably need at least a 750 watt motor
> * Probably a 36 or 48 volt system
> * Price of around $1500 US
> * Ability to pull out the battery pack for charging is a plus
> (even if it is 70+ lbs)
>
> Does anyone have a suggestion on what I could use here to meet these
> requirements, or modify something existing to meet them?
> Ebay has a couple of interesting items: 7140833081,7141765328.
>
> Also, if anyone knows of licensing/insurance issues related to scooters,
> I'd appreciate that as well.
>
> All feedback/thoughts appreciated.
I appreciate those who responded both on and off list to my question.
Unfortunately, none of the suggestions met all my criteria--the
closest one was the ElChopper kit, but its max speed wasn't high
enough (could this be overcome? I don't know).
How about another approach. Does anyone know of a scooter or
motorcycle type frame that I could purchase, and then add the motor,
batteries, controller, seat, etc, to? Am I being unrealistic about
getting what I want for the price range I want? I can handle the
truth. :)
Thanks again for the help.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Damon Henry has hills like Seattle (in PDX) and built a motorcycle so
he would be a good reference...
He is also in the EVAlbum with a ??? Honda 250??? conversion?
Seth
On Mar 18, 2005, at 7:57 PM, Mark Dodrill wrote:
On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 12:52:34 -0800, Mark Dodrill
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello all. It's been so unseasonable warm and sunny here in Seattle
this
year, I've been thinking using an electric scooter to get to and from
work, instead of my car. A full electric car just isn't in the cards
for me now, but I did get a tax refund that might work.
I'm looking for an electric scooter that meets the following
requirments:
* It's a 11 mile (~18 km) commute one-way, so I'm sure I would
need to charge at work.
* Total elevation change is about 200 feet from start to finish,
with about a 250 max elevation gain in the middle.
* Max speed required is 40 mph for about 1 mile
* Other times speed is between 25 and 35 mph
* Some rolling hills but I can avoid any steep up/downgrades
* Full enclosure not required since I plan to ride only when
it is relatively nice
* Either homegrown or production would work
* Efficiency is more important than looks
* Needs to haul 200 lbs of people and stuff
* Don't care about battery weight, size, or chemistry, as long as it
works
* Needs to have a seat
* Probably need at least a 750 watt motor
* Probably a 36 or 48 volt system
* Price of around $1500 US
* Ability to pull out the battery pack for charging is a plus
(even if it is 70+ lbs)
Does anyone have a suggestion on what I could use here to meet these
requirements, or modify something existing to meet them?
Ebay has a couple of interesting items: 7140833081,7141765328.
Also, if anyone knows of licensing/insurance issues related to
scooters,
I'd appreciate that as well.
All feedback/thoughts appreciated.
I appreciate those who responded both on and off list to my question.
Unfortunately, none of the suggestions met all my criteria--the
closest one was the ElChopper kit, but its max speed wasn't high
enough (could this be overcome? I don't know).
How about another approach. Does anyone know of a scooter or
motorcycle type frame that I could purchase, and then add the motor,
batteries, controller, seat, etc, to? Am I being unrealistic about
getting what I want for the price range I want? I can handle the
truth. :)
Thanks again for the help.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That sounds do-able. Would there be some kind of clutch action built in to the
hydraulic motor or would it be always directly coupled? It seems like it may
work like a typical torque converter in an automatic trans.
----- Original Message -----
From: Lee Hart<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 5:03 PM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Gabriel Alarcon wrote:
> I am looking to enhance the performance of my Mitsu Fuso truck
> weighing in at 11,300 lbs loaded...
On something this heavy, I don't think I'd try any kind of friction
drive. Instead, I'd look at hydraulic motors. You can probably find a
hydraulic motor that would mount in the drive shaft (i.e. has a shaft on
each end; one drive shaft connects from the transmission to the
hydraulid motor, and a second drive shaft from the hydraulic motor to
the differential). Add an electric motor and hydraulic pump from a
forklift, and an accumulator (hydraulic pressure storage tank) and you
should be in business.
For regen braking, the hydraulic motor would work as a pump, storing
braking energy as hydraulic pressure in the accumulator. For
accellerating, use this pressure to aid accelleration. The lift motor
would be run as needed to pressurize the accumulator and/or drive the
hydraulic motor.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Unfortunately, it has no pto. This was my first thought, maybe add a pto if
available but then comes the question of coasting, disengaging, a clutch of
sorts.
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:39 AM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Oh. I was just thinking that a second rear axle could be electrically
driven. Does it have a PTO, perchance?
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:25 AM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
It's a single rear axle truck with dual wheels...
----- Original Message -----
From: Dave<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: Perf Upgrade using EV components
Gabe
Do you have 2 rear axles?
Dave
Some call it retirement, some call it a second career... I just call it
adding 5ive days to the weekend!
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gabriel Alarcon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]<mailto:[EMAIL
PROTECTED]<mailto:[email protected]>>>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Perf Upgrade using EV components
I am looking to enhance the performance of my Mitsu Fuso truck weighing in
at 11,300 lbs, loaded. It has a 4 cyl turbo diesel and all I can find
from
diesel shops are typical ICE upgrades, chips, larger injectors, larger
turbos, etc. There is a lot of room for batteries under this thing and if
I
can find a motor with some sort of rubber tire mounted on the shaft as
seen
on some roller coasters or log jammer rides, I may be able to transfer
this
power to my driveline shaft possibly via the emergency brake drum. I can
maybe put the motor on a swing arm system with a motorized arm to pressure
up against the drum and swing it away when not needed. Has anybody on
this
list tried this or know if this type of setup would even give me a
performance upgrade? All comments appreciated.
Gabe Alarcon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Am I being unrealistic about getting what I want for the price range I
want?
In a word, yes. You could build something yourself for around $1500, but
you can't purchase anything new to my knowledge that meets your criteria
for that little money.
In the "do-it-yourself" category: if you need 40mph an ETEK motor is
most cost effective at approx $350, a controller is another couple of
hundred. Figure $200-$400 for cheap surplus batteries (you'll probably
want a 48V pack). Another hundred for electronic throttle and misc
electrical connectors, wiring, and motor mounting plate. Another fifty
for chains, sprockets and machine work. Another $150-$300 for a charger
or two. This puts us in the neighborhood of $1000 and you would still
need to find an appropriate chassis and do all the conversion work
yourself.
I converted a mini-chopper to a quality electric for about $1300-$1400,
but that was for a lower power level and speed than you need.
It is not an easy task to get a solid 40 mph electric for such a small
sum.
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX - 801-749-7807
message - 866-872-8901
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 16:57:41 -0800, Mark Dodrill
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I appreciate those who responded both on and off list to my question.
>Unfortunately, none of the suggestions met all my criteria--the
>closest one was the ElChopper kit, but its max speed wasn't high
>enough (could this be overcome? I don't know).
Probably. My approach would be to find a "glider" that fits your
physical needs and then add the drivetrain to achieve the speed and
range needed. A "glider" can be something that either doesn't have a
motor (burned out, etc) or is grossly underpowered like most of the
Chinese crap.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve Marks wrote:
Wow, a whole half a K! I feel like a king! =o)
Actually, I suppose it *could* be implemented in half a K. The largest
consumer of memory would probably just be the tag names.
A fully-featured version --
http://www.unicoi.com/fusion_web/fusion_xml_sax_microparser.htm -- takes
up 15K total. We're just talking about something simple and
single-purpose, so we could likely implement it much more simply.
I'm using the term XML here pretty loosely. Basically, I just mean
marked up text. For instance, the following might be a stream of XML
that an application could send the Zilla to tell it to set the Motor Amp
Limit to 800 amps, the Battery Voltage Limit to 170 volts and return
with the current Motor Voltage Limit:
<SET><MAL>800</MAL><BVL>170</BVL></SET><GET><MVL/></GET>
To which the Zilla might respond:
<MVL>150</MVL>
I always like to use attributes instead, because it makes the stream
smaller. For instance:
<SET MAL="800" BVL="170"/><GET id="MVL"/>
<RESPONSE MVL=150/>
For this interface you'd need storage space for the SET, GET, MAL, BVL
and MVL tags plus some simple parsing code. Depending on the number of
tags and how terse you can keep their text, it might just fit in that
space.
You'd still need all that using attributes, I'm afraid. But it's always
seemed much more intuitive to me.
Note, since every XML operation begins with a '<' character, your
teletype interface could simply forward any string received to the XML
parser if it began with '<' and process the others the same as it does
now. The result would be two separate interfaces simultaneously
available. The XML interface could even be tested through the teletype
interface by having the user type the XML in directly, though I can't
imagine the graffiti stroke that does <, / and > ;o)
That would be .> and .< (both start from their topmost corner). I've
used them for programming in the past.
I'm so 1337! :-P
Jude
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ken and All,
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Am I being unrealistic about getting what I want
> for the price range I
> > want?
>
> In a word, yes. You could build something yourself
> for around $1500, but
> you can't purchase anything new to my knowledge that
> meets your criteria
> for that little money.
>
> In the "do-it-yourself" category: if you need 40mph
> an ETEK motor is
> most cost effective at approx $350, a controller is
> another couple of
> hundred. Figure $200-$400 for cheap surplus
> batteries (you'll probably
> want a 48V pack). Another hundred for electronic
> throttle and misc
> electrical connectors, wiring, and motor mounting
> plate. Another fifty
> for chains, sprockets and machine work. Another
> $150-$300 for a charger
> or two. This puts us in the neighborhood of $1000
> and you would still
> need to find an appropriate chassis and do all the
> conversion work
> yourself.
He can easily do better than that.
Get a 100-350cc bike for the glider, about $1-300
with a dead motor. A used golf cart 2.2hp or a PM,
series motor from Surpluscenter.com or other surplus
place for power at $50-200.
Golf cart contactors, resistor would work well on
a light low power unit like this and make a simple 3
speed contactor controller, Series/parallel the batts
and a starting resistor, about $50.
New batts about $100-250 or so and charger, GC or
3-4 12v chargers, ect about $100.
Surplus UPS batts from cell phone towers are
available in most cities for $20-30 each but check
them for voltage and equal max amps on a good tester
the shop should have.
Another $150 for all those other things he'll
need should about do it.
As a good scrounger I'd do this under $500 but
anyone almost should easily do it for under $1,000.
Don't forget the $75 or so to license it if you
get a bike with a title which is the best way by far
or he could have a hard time registering it.
>
> I converted a mini-chopper to a quality electric for
> about $1300-$1400,
> but that was for a lower power level and speed than
> you need.
>
> It is not an easy task to get a solid 40 mph
> electric for such a small
> sum.
I built my enclosed, 2 seat 45-60 mph E-woody for
less than that!!!
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX - 801-749-7807
> message - 866-872-8901
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:42 PM 3/18/05 +0900, you wrote:
With all the talk about copying the EV1, I thought I'd share my plans
for my EV. I think we already have a great replacement for the EV1,
the Honda Insight. My plans are to drive my little old 72v rabbit and
slowly upgrade all the components as I can afford to. I'll have a
functional EV that only gets better. This is going to be my learning
curve car that I can make mistakes with. I've seen a few 100,000+ mile
Insights on Ebay for about $5000 and they will only get cheaper. If
I'm lucky, I'll be able to find one with a blown engine or ruined
battery pack. The target price I'm hoping to get is $2-3000. Then I'll
put all the components in the insight and have a killer, lightweight
EV. It has great aerodynamics and if you cover the bottom and block
the front air vents and it gets even better. I think that would be a
great car to use as the new EV standard, the new Voltsrabbit
replacement. Whatta ya think Mike Brown?
We have had several inquiries from Prius and Insight owners wanting to
convert them to pure electric. While it could be done, it would be more
complicated than the Voltsrabbit was to develop. The Rabbit, while
lightweight, was fairly roomy, due to its square shape. The Insight was
practically molded around its drive system. I haven't been close enough to
one to see what might be available for usable battery space.
The Rabbit also had a very simple wiring loom, so it was easy to separate
out the couple of wires I needed to re-use. When I tackled a Golf
conversion, I spent most of a day sorting out the forest of wires to see
what I could safely cut. Before touching a hybrid, I would want to study a
factory service manual wiring diagram. I don't know how easy or possible
it is to separate necessary electronics (like airbags or ABS) from
hybrid-specific electronics. Does the "brain" control functions that we
don't want to eliminate?
I would not use the CVT. It would be too much of a headache to try to
integrate it with a different drive/control system, and they aren't that
efficient anyway. If you compare the Hondas, the conventional transmission
version gets better mileage than the CVT version.
I would do it with a Solectria AC24 motor and their AT1200 gearbox as a
direct drive setup. This requires at least 144V, but can go as high as
336V. I would probably use 12V gel batteries. If someone wanted to put up
the scratch for it, it could be done with TS Li-Ions.
Then it would take someone with deep pockets and patience to finance the
prototype. The first one always costs a lot more, both in time and
fabrication, as you don't yet have welding jigs, etc. To design it, build
the prototype, debug the design, and document it for repeated production
and installation would take about two months - if I could shut down the
business and do nothing else but this project, which of course, I could not
do. So in real life, it would take longer.
Once it was debugged and productionized, it would be about a $15k
conversion (not counting donor car) if you used lead acid gel
batteries. With Li-Ions and their attendant management system, etc., it
would be more than twice that much.
Mike Brown
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If your looking for a high voltage DC/DC, and have deep pockets... I
noticed that "Richard" lists 2 Solectria units with 200-400 volt input
range at http://www.evfinder.com/classifieds.htm
Or perhaps Eledctroautomotive can get them new as a Solectria dealer??
(and no, I don't know who Richard is or anything other than listed in
the ad)
Christopher Robison wrote:
... for a 348V pack
_________
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak
1992 Chevy S-10 BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:23 PM -0800 3-17-05, Steve Marks wrote:
You know, I never get tired of stories like these.
As high minded as I like to be about how they contribute to a cleaner
environment and lessen foreign dependencies, I can't deny that much of
what drives my own project is a desire to have EV experiences like those
of Otmar and Wayland.
Thank you guys for feeding my addiction.
You're welcome. It's fun on this end too. :-)
BTW, does anyone have a line on how much the 8" Warps will take in
voltage and amps?
Well, John is running two of them in the Zombie, so I suspect they
can take quite a bit.
Current plans for the Ghiamonster are to run three of Otmar's high
voltage 1K controllers into three separate 8" Warps. The pack is a set
of 84 of the 11lb SVR-like batteries in three strings. I figured I
could set the voltage limit for about 170V to protect the motors and,
assuming about a 50% sag at full power, still use up everything the pack
could dish out.
This seems true at least once the vehicle is moving pretty well but
during launch, even though the Ghia has a transmission, am I right that
those 1K controllers may be throwing away power at the 1K amp limit that
these batteries can still manage? Am I throwing away significant power
with the 1K controllers that I could recover with the 2K controllers
even though I have a transmission?
Good point, you better upgrade to three 2000 amp Zillas right away!
Just kidding. :-)
Since you will be shifting, I suspect you are giving up very little
by using "only" 3000 amps of controller. I don't have math to back it
up, but my gut feel is that you'll be fine the way it is. Sure, you
could start in a taller gear with 2000 amps each, but I think you'll
hit battery limit pretty quickly and then it won't help to be
carrying the extra weight (and cost) of the Z2Ks.
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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David Roden wrote:
<SNIP>
Then we got the mail-archive storage, thanks to one of our members (Mike
Chancey, IIRC). That made the project even less urgent, so it's languished
for a long time now.
Sorry, not me, I think Bruce set that one up for us.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
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Dave,
And anyone else that saw the Blurb.. Go with your hunches.
The get together is on the 26th, in lieu of our regular meeting. You should
be getting an e-mail announcing that fact.
Where they got the EV-1 part of the story is anyones guess. Must be filler
material. I hope not too many people are disappointed.
BTW: I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Phoenix that you'll see
an EV-1 there, but I'd like to be surprised.
Jim - PhoenixEAA EVents Co-coordinator
'93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
>I am assuming it is a complete mis-statement by the normally misguided and
>inaccurate staffers but I want to make sure. I figure it is some cross
>confuguliation of the normal Phoenix EAA meeting that is normally held on
>the 3 Sat, but it is funny how it plays right into GMs mis-information
>campaign.
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
=
>-------------------------------------
>Electric cars join show in Pavilions parking lot
>SCOTTSDALE- See the automotive equivalent of a dinosaur Saturday in the
>McDonald's parking lot at the Pavilions, Pima and Indian Bend Roads.
>Members of the Electric Auto Association-Phoenix Chapter will start
>gathering with their EV-1s at about 2 PM and will be available to talk
>about their cars from 4 PM until dark. Unlike most of the classic cars in
>the lot, the EV-1s on display are relatively new, the product of a
four->year GM experiment with
>electric cars.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
mail2web - Check your email from the web at
http://mail2web.com/ .
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At 9:41 PM -0600 3-17-05, John Westlund wrote:
Otmar wrote:
I've done some runs with a G-Tech meter and IIRC it
was peaking at
210 HP. I think that was somewhere around 2000 rpm.
Does it hold that power reasonably well, or does it rapidly
taper off?
Pretty much it acts exactly like any other series wound motor. A
mountain-like power curve.
Any idea what it is putting out, at say, 5,000
RPM?
Nope.
I do believe those 2 motors are making like 1000 lb-ft,
if I remember correctly. Strip the gears of a Porsche 930
turbo transmission!
1000 or more, I suspect more. A minor correction: they stripped the
gears of a 901 trans, fortunately the 930 gears are still holding
just fine. :-)
I figured maybe to save weight,
I might want to look into an Advanced DC XP-1227A, which can
handle 8,000 RPM. That may allow me to look people in the
eye and tell them my EV can hit near 140 when I have it,
which would really draw attention to the car and the
possibilities of electric propulsion.
Here are the input parameters I used for the acceleration
simulation, for those curious:
The trouble with simulations is that they follow the old rule: GI-GO,
Garbage in, Garbage out.
As far as I know no one has data on our motors above 500A or so, and
that data is not at many different voltages. I do know from
experience that the response at high currents is nonlinear.
And
the high redline of the XP-1227A could bring me close to 150
MPH,
Beware that redline is another one of those numbers that's quite
undocumented and is basically a guess from the motor designer. I've
heard of a 8" motor that was doing just fine at 10000 RPM. It was
driven by one of its designers for quite some time at that speed just
to be sure that it could take it. 8000 seems common for them. But it
may not do that with a hot commutator, I don't know. I limit mine at
about 6000 which is about 104 mph. I haven't found the need to exceed
that around town. If I lived in NV I might need to shift into 4th
gear for higher speeds or turn up the limit.
Also, on the XP-1227, watch out for it at higher currents. It is a
higher voltage and lower current motor, and I see no reason to use it
over a standard 8". I've used the 1227 in a couple cars and wasn't
happy with it since it got hot too quick. (but is sure makes a lot of
torque per amp!) They both start fire-balling at 170V but the
standard 8" has fewer larger area windings. I think you'll find more
useful HP from a stock 8" motor since you can run higher current at
that voltage and actually make power at higher RPM.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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Yep, when I spoke to John D'Anna he put me on hold and got a copy of the
original press release from the phx eaa that had your name on it. Said that
there was nothing in the original that mentioned EV-1s at all. I just find
it really strange that this press "item" was invented? (for lack of a better
word) at this time. It gives the casual reader the impression that there are
still EV-1s around, they a number of people in Phx drive them, and I take
particular offense at the term dinosaur. I am going to find out who wrote
this item and ask him/her. I still hope people use the contact info I posted
to try and nudge a response out of the AZ Republic. Maybe if we keep sending
factual evidentuary proof of GMs actions to that investigative reporter Mary
Jo Pitzl she would maybe do an article, and since we are so close to the
gates of the graveyard we could take up the fight here. Regards, David
Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 8:32 PM
Subject: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
> Dave,
>
> And anyone else that saw the Blurb.. Go with your hunches.
>
> The get together is on the 26th, in lieu of our regular meeting. You
should
> be getting an e-mail announcing that fact.
>
> Where they got the EV-1 part of the story is anyones guess. Must be filler
> material. I hope not too many people are disappointed.
>
> BTW: I don't think there's a snowball's chance in Phoenix that you'll see
> an EV-1 there, but I'd like to be surprised.
>
> Jim - PhoenixEAA EVents Co-coordinator
> '93 Dodge TEVan
> "Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
>
>
> >I am assuming it is a complete mis-statement by the normally misguided
and
> >inaccurate staffers but I want to make sure. I figure it is some cross
> >confuguliation of the normal Phoenix EAA meeting that is normally held on
> >the 3 Sat, but it is funny how it plays right into GMs mis-information
> >campaign.
>
>---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> =
> >-------------------------------------
>
> >Electric cars join show in Pavilions parking lot
>
> >SCOTTSDALE- See the automotive equivalent of a dinosaur Saturday in the
> >McDonald's parking lot at the Pavilions, Pima and Indian Bend Roads.
> >Members of the Electric Auto Association-Phoenix Chapter will start
> >gathering with their EV-1s at about 2 PM and will be available to talk
> >about their cars from 4 PM until dark. Unlike most of the classic cars in
> >the lot, the EV-1s on display are relatively new, the product of a
> four->year GM experiment with
> >electric cars.
>
>
>
> --------------------------------------------------------------------
> mail2web - Check your email from the web at
> http://mail2web.com/ .
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Has any body seen this?
Mike G.
http://www.portev.org/solectria/ho/nicad.htm
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Christopher Robison wrote:
>> But what you *can* do is connect each one across 1/3rd the pack.
>> Then connect their outputs in parallel (each through a commoning
>> diode).
> Thanks -- this makes sense, except I'm not sure what you mean about the
> diode. A Google search for the quoted phrase "commoning diode" yields 2
> hits, each of them in EVDL discussions involving you. :o)
> Is this a normal diode serving a particular purpose, or a special type of
> component?
A "commoning diode" is an ordinary diode, in a circuit used to common
(connect in parallel) two power supplies. It is a normal industry term
for the circuit. I'm surprised it's not on the internet somewhere.
Circuit-wise, you just wire a diode in series with each power supply's
output; anode to the +output, all the cathodes tied together to the
load. Whichever power supply has the highest output voltage delivers the
most current. Since both supplies are normally set for the same voltage,
they both supply the same current. If one supply fails, then its output
commoning diode stops conducting and the other supply delivers all the
current. And, the diode prevents any current from going backards into
the dead supply.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Marc Geller wrote:
>
> Fascinating history I didn't know.
>
> Makes one realize that dumb as you may think GM has been, they've
> actually been even dumber!
> The EV1 could have been the Electrovair. I suspect the Corvair name
> seemed forever tarnished as it had been made the scapegoat for all the
> unsafe vehicles of its day.
>
> But it could have created an entirely different GM narrative.
The Electrovair was certainly too expensive to ever think about
producing it. It was just an engineering exercise. Before they tried,
people thought electric cars could not have the same kind of range and
power that ICEs did. The Electrovair demonstrated that an electric car
*could* go as fast and as far as an ICE -- it matched the stock Corvair.
But it was expensive!
They used the same silver-zinc batteries that were used in the electric
"moon buggy" that the astronauts drove on the moon. Very high energy
density (right up there with today's lithium batteries), but very
expensive!
A 100kw 3-phase AC motor and inverter is "hard" today -- in 1966, it is
absolutely incredible that they got it to work.
It's worth noting that Ralph Nader's "Unsafe At Any Speed" hadn't even
come out when the Electrovairs were built.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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M.G. wrote:
> What I am trying to do is to use the power steering motor and pump
> from the forklift we are scrapping where I work. The motor is a
> 48 volt setup and the pump is already attached... If the motor has
> four brushes can I reconnect them in series instead of
> parallel to effectively double the operating voltage of the motor?
No; it just means you have a 4-pole motor.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
> I have more trouble with my front disk brakes dragging.
I have this trouble too. The way the caliper is designed, whats to
keep the pads from touching the rotor?
Maybe some sort of modification using a small coiled spring(or two)
between both brake pads could be used to keep the pads from rubbing on
the rotors all the time?
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Apparently this is a rumor according to Chelsea Sexton who is one of the
Vigil organizers. There are no EV-1's being leased in AZ so the AZ Republic
kind of put out the wrong info. Why they wrote it is another question.
That blurb is probably getting alot of former EV-1 leasers riled up.
Especially if they think there are some people who still have their EV-1s.
So it's an error on the AZ Republic's part. The only EV-1s in AZ are the
ones waiting to be crushed and the ones that are crushed.
Chip Gribben
Save the EV-1
http://www.saveev1.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ivo Jara" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 6:21 PM
Subject: RE: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
> Let me get this straight, there are still people who have EV1's and the
> leases are functioning ?????
>
> If so, i would think of having someone steal the car, stuff it in a
> container, and send it overseas for the reverse engeneering, then once
it's
> done, just send the pieces back (really do not have to, leases have great
> insurances).
>
> Extradition is not an option, car theft is a serious crime, but not
> international.
>
> And the point is not getting caught is it ?
>
> Btw this is done everyday with mercedes, rolls and BMW, why not an EV1 ?
>
> Ivo
>
> -----Mensaje original-----
> De: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> nombre de Bill Dennis
> Enviado el: viernes, 18 de marzo de 2005 16:36
> Para: [email protected]
> Asunto: RE: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
>
>
> Well, if it's true, then find one of the owners close to the end of his
> lease. Have members of the EVDL go down and take the thing apart to
reverse
> engineer. Then the owner can tell GM to come pick up the pieces at the
end
> of the lease. :)
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David Chapman
> Sent: Friday, March 18, 2005 12:07 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: EV-1 Blurb in AZ Republic
>
> Anyone else see this or know anything about this short blurb in the
> 3/17/2005 AZ Republic page B4, bottom right quarter? I am assuming it is a
> complete mis-statement by the normally misguided and inaccurate staffers
but
> I want to make sure. I figure it is some cross confuguliation of the
normal
> Phoenix EAA meeting that is normally held on the 3 Sat, but it is funny
how
> it plays right into GMs mis-information campaign.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> ------------------------------------
>
> Electric cars join show in Pavilions parking lot
>
> SCOTTSDALE- See the automotive equivalent of a dinosaur Saturday in the
> McDonald's parking lot at the Pavilions, Pima and Indian Bend Roads.
Members
> of the Electric Auto Association-Phoenix Chapter will start gathering with
> their EV-1s at about 2 PM and will be available to talk about their cars
> from 4 PM until dark. Unlike most of the classic cars in the lot, the
EV-1s
> on display are relatively new, the product of a four-year GM experiment
with
> electric cars.
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------
--
> -------------------------------------
>
> Hmm, if this is true I want to know as although I have a lot going on
> tomorrow I will dump EVerything and be there.
>
> Hope the EV-1s are securely looked after, everyone here in Phx knows how
> many cars are stolen every day and end up south of the border, never to be
> heard of or seen again. I wonder what a mini storage in Sonora goes for?
> David Chapman.
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.3 - Release Date: 15/03/2005
>
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