EV Digest 4208
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Transistor Votage Question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: E-volks motor and adapter factory link (was on EBAY)
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: tranny experts, pls.
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Aging batteries, How best to bring them back?
by "bholmber" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: why are crash tests so expensive?
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: tranny experts, pls.
by "Richard Furniss" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Stirling Engine
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Personal attacks/conspiracy theory touts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: French regulations
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Rabbit replacement
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Series motor runaway
by canev <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Speaking of Viruses ( was Re: 1498 Digest had virus.)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Renualt LeCar
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Stirling Engine
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: X19?
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Selectria Sunrise as replacement for EV-1 and Re: Rabbit replacement
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: DC DC Converter
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Renualt LeCar
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The BMS starts bypassing between 200mA and 250mA when the cell gets to 4.2V.
When the cell gets to 4.25V, the BMS turns on an opto. I want to connect
one side of the opto to cell positive, and also connect Q1's collector to
cell positive. R4 is connected to cell positive and R3 is connected between
the other side of the opto and Q1's base. In the diagram below, everything
to the left of the dots is the BMS, to the right of the dots is my addition
to the circuit.
+Cell_____________________.__________
| . |
BMS <-+ | . |
Logic | | . |
_|_ |/--<<--+ . > R4
_\_/_ --> | . >
| |\--<<--+ . >
| .....|.... |
BMS <-+ . | |
Logic . > R3 |
. > |
. > |/ collector
. |___________| Q1: NPN transistor
. base|
. |\ emitter
. |
. |
. |
. |
. |
-Cell____________.__________________|
.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 1:42 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Transistor Votage Question
Bill Dennis wrote:
>
> Thanks, Lee. I think all I might need is: R3, Q1 and R4; the BMS already
> turns on the opto at the appropriate voltage.
Then, I don't understand what your BMS is doing. In my circuit, D1 is
what is regulating the voltage, and limiting the base current to Q1.
Can you provide a more complete description of exactly what the BMS
circuit is that you are trying to connect to?
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the direct link to factory. $1795 96v with
adapter and controller. 70 mph 45 to 55 miles with 16
T105 Trojan's
And yes I am thinking about it. As it is within a
price range I can afford here shortly. Takes $800
worth of batteries. and will get me my commute to
work.
But like any kid with a new toy I am debating between
this and a Warp9 and a 1k Zilla and a PFC 20 or 30.
Also debating on the Solectria A/C kits from Electro
Automotive. I have debated with myself because this
list has been informative. And while Electro
Automotive looks good, The Zilla sound exciting, and
the E-volks kit is economical-but have not heard of
anyone using them yet.
I still have to refurbish the burnt out body I bought.
So I have time to think about it.
www.e-volks.com/about.html2.html
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://tinyurl.com/5l84y
>
> This is the Utah kit. The Highway model. They
> claim it is a 30 hp Shunt
> motor. Any comments on this motor? Lawrence
> Rhodes.....
>
>
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob, Seth and All,
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> > >
> > > How much does the unibody weigh? How long does
> it
> >
> > Between 400-500 lbs
> >
> > > take to make each
> > > one?
> >
> > One a day per mold set. Easy to make more mold
> sets.
> >
> > > How much will they cost?
> >
> > The composite parts go for about $8-10lb but
> that
> > includes a lot like paint, most of the seats,
> dash,
> > ect in that weight.
> >
> > >
> > > Are they "pure fiberglass"? Or is there
> something
> > > inside of it? Like
> > > bracing or framing of some sort?
> > Pure composites are the framing.
> > Parts would be cored and other not but all the
> > structural is in the body's composites.
> >
> > >
> > > Say for example that you personally have that
> > > fiberglass company do a
> > > run and make ~25 unibody's. Where you go from
> > > there?
> > >
> > For the Sunrise it would be 100 units to make
> > Selectria interested I'd think to start up but
> should
> > easily be able to sell them.
> > Maybe you could start with 25 units but to
> give
> > up the design they are going to want a good bit of
> > business. But right now it's a non performing
> asset
> > they may not even know they have!!!
> > The EV drive parts are stock Selectria
> already in
> > production still. Probably what Electro-Automotive
> > sells from them.
> > The rest is available. I have the list of
> parts
> > somewhere. It's a very simple EV. It's obvious
> someone
> > who knew what they were doing designed the
> composite
> > body. When you do one right there are few other
> parts
> > needed. It's done how I would design one for mass
> > production.
> > A 100-160 mile range Ni-cad one would be
> about
> > $30-35,000 in a 100 lot run.
> > HTH's,
> > jerry dycus
> >
> > Hi Jerry an' All;
>
> Now yur talking! Been following Jerry's thread
> on building up bodies,
> etc. OK Build a Sunrise body? OK NOW where do we go.
> What running gear,
> suspension, brakes, tires, all the little stuff that
> makes that pretty body
Selectria has already done that for us and I have
a list of the parts from them.
For the Freedom EV I've designed all that from
scratch to be easy to obtain or build.
> a CAR. Hate to sound knit picky, but it was these
> details that sunk Citi
I owned 2 and why I only used the motors, batt
charger from them!!!
I agree and why I need a little help cash wise to do
it right. Having studied this for 8 yrs now and my
experience in low unit boat building gives me the
knowledge to do this. I'm going in with my eyes wide
open. The devil is in the details.
> Car. The damn windows and doors HAVE to work! Seats
> hafta be adjustable so I
> can get my 280 lb 6'4"ass in, or Rick Pryer can
> slide it forward so HE can
> reach the pedals<g>!Seats? Yeah, where do ya get
The Freedom EV 3 wh would easily fit you guys and
was designed for larger people to begin with. The size
of Americans has become larger in both height and
weight.
> them? Glass, window
> mechanicals? the damn windows HAVE to roll up and
> down or a motorized thing.
> Can you BUY this stuff, from small builders of
> parts? Steering wheel,
> column, light controls Wipers, heater, AC system,
> all that stuff that comes
> with a clean doner car.Wayland can do the Sound
> System, no problemo!
Yes, it's all been priced out within my numbers. I
plan on AC too as an option.
Present thoughts on it are a SRE 900 amp 96vdc
controller with 2-6.7's or 1- 8" type motor with
several batt options. The SRE is designed for 2 motors
stock.
>
> I don't think Solectria EVer Crash Tested the
> car. Seth, correct me on
> thi$ one? If we could overcome these details, lottsa
> empty industrial bldgs
> in CT just down the road from Solectria and RI. CT
> is looking for start up
Just what I was thinking for on the Sunrise,
moving up there to be in the center of most of the
parts needed. Or to the west coast for the Freedom EV
if nessasary.
As for franchises, I was more thinking on
factories all around the US to cut shipping costs,
ect. I could ship a factory in 2 semis or containers.
I'm more of a get it started and running smoothly
kind of guy then turn production over to those more
suited to that and just keep an eye to make sure it
runs right.
Fed rules can be bypassed for a while by shipping
batts outside of the EV and calling it a kit. Should
be good for serveral hundred EV's that way. By then
the money should be there for a new design to be
certified.
Of course the Feedom EV 3 wheeler as a motorcycle
doesn't have this problem. And why I would start with
it if possible and it's low weight thus lower costs
and higher performance.
I'm working on learning computers now so I can do a
good website and the other stuff for a start-up.
It will look like the white mock up on the EV Photo
Album with windows added under E-woody or Jerry Dycus,
I forget which.
> stuff like this. Cars WERE built in CT 100 years
> ago, Pope Electrics in
> Hartford, Losiers in Bridgeport, a few others I'm
> sure.
>
> Jerry? Yes, lets talk about your Lumbergini. No,
> seriously, can we build
> some with a bit of cash up front?? As somebody ELSE
Yes but for the same money we could do it in
Composites and have a real production EV that's much
easier to produce after the first 1. And it will take
more than a few to justify the design, implementation.
I would be glad to build one if someone would
order one though.
While a Lumbergini would appeal to a few like
businesses who want to advertize with it and Eco's,
it's too hard to build quickly for production and just
as much work to design.
I could do the composite Freedom EV with only 10
orders from serious people.
To build the production molds, first body will
cost about $10k, the first finished Freedom EV about
another $10K in materials, outside labor needed
defering other costs, my labor until later.
If someone would like to invest in it I'm open to
it but prefer a loan or orders with 10-20% deposits or
a group buy to spread the risk with first come, first
served basis.
> sed, let's put our money
> where our mouths are. A thousand Listers here? We
> could pony up a startup
> fund for Jerry. Order 5 or 10 I think a woodie
> scares folks away, UNTIL they
> see what Jerry has in mind?Gotta be cheaper than the
> Tango Startup? Were not
> as fancy as Tango. If ya want a Radio you go out and
> BUY one,just build a
> turnkey CAR, or buy it in a semi built kit. Can ya
> offer it from kit to
> turnkey?Depending on how much money and time a guy
> haz?
>
> I'm not crazy about 3 wheelers, but look at all
You would be after you drive one! Done right will
outhandle most anything on the road and total costs
are very low over 10 yrs. 1/2 of an ICE 2 seater and
can be faster.
It would be a great SCCA auto cross racer.
> the un happy folks that
> put up BIG bux for the Sparrow. A really useless car
> for MOST of us. Hell,
> you can't bring home 200 bux worth of groceries or a
> load of studs from Home
> Despot!They are cute, a tiny start up thing to get a
I tow a trailer with my E woody even with it's low
power motor to bring home plywood and other larger
items. It has good cargo space for groceries, ect
unlike the Sparrow and another seat!
Seth, Thanks for the Sunrise info.
The Aveo would be a fairly good one for conversion
but lacks style. The Matrix/Vibe have the style but
weighs too much but good potential for low aero drag,
parts source.
The way to do it would be pop a mold off a Vibe,
ect and then build it in composites to lower it's
weight and design it for EV use.
It could be done EV at about 2200 lbs vs the
conversion weight of about 3600-4000lbs for the same
performance, range. It would make a great commercial
EV truck too.
But the Composite version would have much lower
aero, weight, thus need smaller motor, batt,
controller, ect and the glider would be many thousands
cheaper. The composite EV version could sell for about
the same as an ICE version!!!
It's only when we can sell these at comparible
prices to ICE's that EV's will need to take off and to
do that they must be designed as EV's from scratch.
The question is will EV'ers step up to the plate?
The risks are low, reward high if we get off are butts
and do something whether with me or someone else.
Anyone want to form a committee to get this
going, handle the money like Lee Hart, ect or sign up
for an EV?
It can be as low as $100 each if enough sign up!
That's less than a single Orbital batt!
I'd love to put my time and effort into this
instead of build some more EV GC transaxle based
Woody's to raise the money but they are all I can
afford to build on spec now.
Thanks Bob for your support and others over the
yrs.
Jerry Dycus
.
> poz cash flow, THEN
> we'll go for full size take-the-kids-out-for-Pizza
> Mom-Mobile, Sunrise. The
> Lumbergini would be just the ticket for the legions
> of Train Commuters here
> in the Big East! People buy a older car as a " Train
> Car" it's sole purpose
> in life is to get the guy, or gal to the train and
> home again. In Boston NYC
> Philly, Baltimore ,Wash DC people TRAIN to work.
> Hugh parking lots chock
> FULL of cars by 8am. Lumberginias would be easy to
> park! This would endere
> them to the commuter guyz! In that you often can't
> EVen FIND a parking spot
> among the bememoths at the station.
>
> OK I'll stop now. Just like to run those thoughts
> by the List.
>
> Seeya
>
> Bob
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For those of you on the gearhead end of things-- what
does a bad pilot bearing sound like? And does it look
any different than a _good_ pilot bearing?
(I _know_ when we assembled the flywheel, that the
bearing looked just fine, but perhaps appearances
don't tell the whole story. I did not spin it, take
it out, etc).
The pilot bearing is spinning only when the clutch pedal is depressed.
If the noise is there when in gear and the clutch pedal is released the
pilot bearing is not the problem.
Mike G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello all,
I have a set of 16 SVR-14s that I picked up cheap a couple years ago.
Initially they were going to go into my first kindof electric vehicle, a
hybrid electric drag festiva. Well we all know how some projects go...they
don't, and that's what has happened. I want to use the batteries for
something else eventually, but I won't be able to get to it for another six
months.
I'm wondering what would be the easiest way to maintain these batteries, so
they don't go bad, if they haven't already. I'm starting from scratch, and I
don't even have a single battery charger. Any recommendations? When the
batteries were first obtained they were all checked for voltage and all were
pretty close at 12.5V.
Any help is greatly appreciated.
Brett
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jerry wrote:
<SNIP>
It will look like the white mock up on the EV Photo
Album with windows added under E-woody or Jerry Dycus,
I forget which.
You can access it at:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/168.html
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was working for an Audi dealer one of the school sessions
mentioned that 8 vehicles of each model had to be tested. if anything
was different , engine , trans , seats , each combination only counted
as one model. So many cars were crashed.
Mike G.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
I've never understood how it could cost so much to "crash test" a
vehicle. Lets say I build a new vehicle. I submit one(or a few) at my
expense for them to crash test. Seat belt the dummy in it, rig up the
cables, press the button, and look at the results. To reduce the
costs, they could have owners of the vehicle do all I mentioned above.
Then all they'd have to do is observe the results!
Well, first of all it's not "one" vehicle. The vehicle has to be crash
tested from the front, the rear, the side, etc. EACH test has to start
with a complete, brand new, undamaged vehicle.
So you have the expensive of several vehicles (I don't kow the exact
number), then you have to pay for the testing, the cost of using the
facility, the employees wages (and these aren't McDonalds employees making
minimum wage), the consumable testing suplies, etc. Then you have to pay
to have the data analyzed, computer time, more expensive emplyee wages,
etc.
Then, as is likely, if some part of your vehicle fails to pass, you have
to redesign and start all over. ALL over, even the tests that pasted the
first time, because your changes /may/ have effected them.
Later on if you make any major changes to the vehicle, you also have to
start over from scratch.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob, there might be a problem in your trans BUT from reading your
description of the problem, it sounds like your a victim of "just good
enough" thinking of the manufacture.
In your (our) trans you have metal gears, and the surface of the gears
teeth are sliding across each other and any imperfection in the finish of
the gear tooth will show up as noise. The amount of noise will change with
load and speed of the mesh of the two gear faces. When they make gears for
the trans one of the first questions the bean counters ask "how good of a
finish do we need" and I suspect that at 25 to 32 MPH in first gear the
engine is going to make much more noise than the trans.
The health of your trans bearings and gears can best be determined by
the metal debris in the trans oil and color of the gear oil ( because this
is a subjective opinion it is best done by someone that has done a lot of
trans work). If there is no evidence of something bad in the trans you can
control the level of noise by increasing the viscosity of the gear oil and
you know what the down side of that is.
The point is Bob, I have chased gear noise's before, sometimes I made
them better and sometimes I made them worse. Talk to a experienced trans guy
about what is normal and what is abnormal noise in your trans, one trick
that I have used is to put valve lapping compound on the gear face to polish
the surface for a better fit.
Let us know what you find. Good luck.
Richard Furniss
http://lasvegasev.com
Las Vegas, NV
President, www.lveva.org
Las Vegas Electric Vehicle Association
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2005 10:29 PM
Subject: tranny experts, pls.
> Hi All,
> You've probably the saying, "There's a fine line
> between a visionary and a fool". Well, as gasoline
> continues to climb lately, I've been taking some
> solace that maybe I'm more on the visionary side, and
> less of a fool. (;-p
>
> CivicWithACord just turned 1,100 miles. Would've
> put more on in the last 8 mos. I've been driving the
> rig, but of course, my town is small.
> I waited until Spring Break to pull the adapter
> plate from the tranny to troubleshoot the noisy tranny
> issue.
> To review, the sound doesn't occur all of the time.
> It is most common at 25-32 mph in 1st gear, generally
> stops for awhile when in 2nd, and comes back at higher
> RPMs. It is a rather grindy, growly type of sound.
> When I stomp on the juice, it does rev up just a bit
> without an accompanying acceleration as if there were
> slippage somewhere. It's not too loud, but definitely
> noticeable. But there can't be too much tranny
> slippage, b/c I'm at 288-300 watts/mi., which is
> pretty avg.
> Well, after thinking that perhaps the input shaft
> is rammed up too hard against the pilot
> bearing/flywheel, I was able to slide in some washers,
> about 3/32" in thickness between adapter plate/tranny.
> Bolted it all back up and... same noises.
> Next hypothesis, please...
>
> For those of you on the gearhead end of things-- what
> does a bad pilot bearing sound like? And does it look
> any different than a _good_ pilot bearing?
> (I _know_ when we assembled the flywheel, that the
> bearing looked just fine, but perhaps appearances
> don't tell the whole story. I did not spin it, take
> it out, etc).
>
> So the next plan would be to take it to my local
> tranny guy, pull the controller (again), leave the
> video of our assembly with him, so he knows what is
> entailed, and let him check out the pilot bearing. If
> that looks good, it's gotta' be the input bearing. (I
> don't have tools to pop out a bearing). Sooo,
> what does a bad one of _those_ sound like, and are
> there other symptoms?
>
> Your insights are gratefully appreciated.
> Yours Truly,
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
>
> I'm thinking about making model Stirling engine that will generate
> a moderate amount of power.
>
> Do you have any ideas or starting points?
>
> The idea is to see if we can make something that is good enough to
> charge an EV for cheaper then PV panels. I think I may already know
> the answer to this, but perhaps not :)
Stirling engines are heat engines -- they run on the temperature
difference between two "heat sinks". For example, a solar reflector uses
sunlight to heat the "hot" side of the stirling engine, and a river
cools the "cold" side.
So, your first question is to decide what the heat sources will be. This
determines the temperature difference. You base the stirling engine's
design on this temperature difference.
You can buy commercial stirling engines, so your first step may be to
get one, maybe big enough for your final project, or just a smaller one
to learn from.
Stirling Power in Ann Arbor MI makes large stirling engines. But they
were bought up by someone, and have a new name -- I don't recall what it
is.
Various scientific supply houses have small "demo" stirling engines. You
could also track them down, I'm sure.
Good luck!
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> We know BEVs are low-maintenance and so do the manufacturers.
>> Manufacturers and dealers won't want to make/sell vehicles that
>> they won't get much maintenance $$$ from.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I've heard this argument here before, and frankly it doesn't wash.
I think it is an oversimplified version of the correct answer. I've
worked for several large corporations for many years, and have some
insight into how they "think". Here's a summary:
Large corporations fundamentally care only about profit. No matter how
well-meaning any individual may be, the corporate culture will still
drive them to seek profit above all else. The bigger the company, the
less influence any individual (even the CEO) can have to alter this.
The corporation can be thought of as a machine to make money (and money
is what the corporation "eats", and needs to survive). The machine has
thousands of parts; some are mechanical, and some are people. The
corporation builds and maintains the machine to make money. If parts
malfunction or wear out, they are replaced and the machine goes on.
Factories, the environment, people, EVERYTHING are just expendable parts
for this machine.
Once you have a machine built to do a certain job, you want to USE it.
The more it's used, the more money you make. So, the corporation will
fight VIGOROUSLY not to change the machine unless there is absolutely no
other choice.
The auto companies have built their machines to design, build, and sell
cars a certain way. Their machine works, and they are NOT going to
change it! If Henry Ford were alive today, he might be impressed at the
details, but he would recognize and perfectly understand every aspect of
how the cars work, how they're built, and how they are sold *because it
hasn't changed in 100 years*!
This is why I have no hope at all that the auto companies will mass
produce EVs in my lifetime.
Does this mean it is hopeless? Of course not! There are many new
products that were invented, became popular, and were mass produced at
low cost *in spite of* well-entrenched corportations that fought against
them. Electronic calculators replaced slide rules and adding machines.
Digital watches replaced mechanical ones. Camcorders replaced movie
cameras. PCs replaced mainframe computers. All these new products came
from tiny new startup companies, NOT from the established leaders in
these fields.
So, the "EVs need less service" is just a tiny facet of a much bigger
problem. *If* the major car companies build an EV, they must build it to
"fit" their present machine as as closely as possible. It will use the
same parts, be built in the same factories by the same people, and have
the same service requirements. Forcing EVs into this mold is likely to
make them a failure in the market. I think the auto company management
recognizes this, and therefore sees EVs as a failure (i.e. they don't
fit into the machine, so they are no good).
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So converting to EV in Norway and importing it to France would be a solution
though expensive, a true one.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "pekka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 4:06 PM
Subject: French regulations
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > I always want an electric motorbike but I'm now converting a bad
designed
> > electric scooter to make it good only because... it's already registered
as
> > an electric scooter.
>
> Why, in the same EU, in Finland, we are allowed to change less than 50%
> of the parts in an MC and register it as modified original. If you go
> over 50% you pay new vehicle taxes and other nuisance, not practical.
>
> Motor and powertrain being 30%-35% or so. You can change the engine to
> electric motor, but you have to preserve the frame and wheels and many
> other parts in order to pass. I think I have figured the engine, gas
> tank, battery, rear swing, chain and some other minor parts come under
> 49,9%. Many of the Harley-Davidson's have confirmed this percentage but
> they are (un)naturally big block putters that are used instead of a real
> motor ;-o for the new power train.
>
> I have not done this yet because I'm poor and stupid but as I read the
> local highway code, it should be possible, keeping dry weight without
> batteries under 400 kg, motor power no more than original engine hp plus
> a little. If it can be done in Finland, you should be able to - atleast
> - drive it in France? But what do I know.
>
> Maybe you or someone could convert the new german, enclosed MC with
> kiddie-wheels to long range with suitable, read expensive lithiums. This
> would suit really well, as the MC (the name escapes me, it being ICE :)
> is already an expensive toy. There was talk about on the EVDL recently
> it being energy-inefficient though.
>
> For me, maybe I could buy a cheap 250 ccm off-road bike or a russian
> side car model with a broken engine and use Etek-level conversion with
> plywood aero fairing for churning along peacefully in the neighbourhood.
>
> Pekka
>
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Except they changed the tax laws and now (Heavy) SUVs have a
> limited tax write-off, $25,000 IIRC.
"Only" $25,000?!?
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hi Ellery.
We use a two stage rev limit on all our vehicles (with series drive).
At 4500 RPM the limiter drops a 5K resistor across the pot box.
At 5500 RPM the limiter drops out the main contactor.
These RPM points can be adjusted.
Of coarse you would have to be running a controller and not just a
contactor.
We sometimes have Curtis factory reconditioned controllers at a good
price but just sold the 1209 48-72 unit that was on the shelf.
What does the machine draw while working?
We had a situation with one of our aircraft refueling tanker trucks
where the pump system actually drew more current in bypass then while
pumping fuel. A simple pressure switch fixed that. :)
BFN
Randy
Hi guys, looking for more info, my Zamboni has a shunt motor now and draws
about 100 amps when not moving or operating the augars, it is driving a
gear box that runs the hydrastatic trans and hydraulic pumps (note that
both are turning all the time but are in bypass mode) I am thinking that
perhaps there is enough load present under these conditions that I could
run a common series wound motor and it would not "run wild", is there any
rule of thumb that could assist me in what would load would be enough for
a motor at different speeds and voltages? I would like to run a series
motor with contactor only at 72 volts and maintain a rpm of around 2400 to
3000, it would not have to be a constant rpm but as little change as
possible, I have no idea how much a load will effect the rpm.
--
Canadian Electric Vehicles Ltd.
PO, Box 616, 1184 Middlegate Rd.
Errington, British Columbia,
Canada, V0R 1V0
Phone: (250) 954-2230
Fax: (250) 954-2235
Website: http://www.canev.com
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manufactures of: "Might-E Truck"
EV conversion Kits and components
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Speaking of Viruses...
>
> What the heck is the point in having a tag line stating that "No virus
> found in this outgoing message"?
>
> Especially considering the fact that I've received several viruses that
> included the exact same tagline.
>
> >> --
> >> No virus found in this incoming message.
> >> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> >> Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.7.4 - Release Date: 3/18/2005
I agree. This page says:
"Tip: turn off the "Certify outgoing messages" which is just an
advertisement and not really needed."
Here's how:
AVG Control Center | Email Scanner
Properties | Configure
Uncheck: "Certify outgoing messages"
http://www.mvps.org/winhelp2002/avg7.htm
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Philippe Borges wrote:
> the piston is at the position he was put by the mounter man:^)
> the system which return back "a little" the piston is the washer
> form, there is some sort of lip on it that deform hitself when
> going one way and so force to go backward (few micrometre)
> sufficiently to let the rotor rotate again withoug drag when
> you release brake pressure.
I understand. In my Renault LeCar, the disk brake pistons have a rubber
seal, shaped like an "O" ring with a square cross-section. When you step
on the brakes and the piston slides out, the outside part of this seal
sits still and the inner part moves with the piston. So, it gets
stretched a bit. When you release the brake, the rubber seal pulls the
piston back a little bit.
However, the amount that it pulls back is tiny; invisible to the naked
eye. There is enough runout in the wheel bearings and out-of-round in
the brake rotor that it *still* hits the pad as it turns. Plus, the pad
is not attached to the piston; it is free to "lean" on the rotor as it
turns. Thus, there is a constant light drag as you rotate the wheel,
even with the brakes off.
With drum brakes, there is an actual spring to pull the shoes away from
the drum. They also pull the shoes away a considerable distance, so that
bearing runout and out-of-round conditions on the drum still don't touch
the brake shoes. It is much easier to adjust them so they don't drag.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hi John,
I love the look of that year F-250. If it's anything like my '85 was, you could
fit lots of batteries under the cab and bed. Swap out your tires for some
high pressure truck tires, put some airbags on it and you could make a
Red Beastie-type conversion with a little more cab room.
My F250 was about 4,800 pounds with fuel, but take out the 460, two 19
gallons gas tanks, monster exhaust system, HD radiator and smog pump,
downsize the A/C to a smaller unit (it's way too much for a single cab),
and I think you could easily get the glider into the 3,500 lb. range. Yours
is even more aero than mine, though.
For your engine and genset range extender, you might be able to get one
of those hitch-mounted shelves that people use to haul a motorcycle or
ATV. Use a 3-cylinder Geo Metro engine and genset for your range
extender.
Tim
--------
> Date: Sat, 19 Mar 2005 20:04:38 -0800
> To: [email protected]
> From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Big vehicle EV conversions, was: Rabbit replacement
>
> Frankly, I am considering such a conversion. Not quite at the Hummer level
> though.
> I'm looking at a Ford F-250. My 93 model has a 4400lb payload
> capacity. This is high enough that I can put 2000 lbs of battery in it,
> and still have a useful payload size.
> I'd really like to get the numbers to figure out what kind of range I could
> get if I used 40 T-145's, Z(1or2)K, and a couple of 8/9/11 inch
> motors. (Which motor would be "best"? Do I really need a Z2K, or would a
> Z1K be enough?)
> I've been starting to gather the numbers to figure out the cost, but I also
> need to find out what "other" items are needed. (How many contactors of
> what type?, Power Steering/Brakes/Air Conditioning
> setups? DC-DC? Probably a PFC-50)
>
> With this kind of size and payload, I could afford to have a slide in
> module with a 4cyl car engine and a 20KW gen set to extend the range.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
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>> I'm thinking about making model Stirling engine that will generate
>> a moderate amount of power.
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I had a similar thought a few years back, so I did some research.
> I came to the conclusion that building a sterling engine large
> enough to be able to do any useful work was neither simple nor cheap.
(Note: It's "stirling", not sterling. That will help in your search)
Another idea occurred to me. A friend builds technological display
devices for museums. One he showed me recently was a thermoacoustic
whistle. No moving parts; just a hot end that is heated with a parabolic
reflector by sunlight, and a finned cold end cooled by the air. Aim it
at the sun, and it produces a loud, piercing whistle. An array of them
(one for each musical note) with blades of a windmill casting shadows
over them plays a tune.
There are also acoustic generators, that turn sound vibrations into
electricity. Basically, high-powered versions of a microphone. I wonder
if you could use a thermoacoustic whistle to generate electricity? You'd
have a heat-to-electricity generator with no moving parts. :-)
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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The Fiat X1-9 was rather overbuilt (especially for a Fiat) to maintain body
rigidity in spite of its being an open roadster. Weight was not too bad at
about 1800 lb (curb with ICE trim), markedly less than a Fiero but
appreciably more than most other Fiats of that size and era. The somewhat
squarish lines would probably help with finding ways to stuff in batteries.
IMO it's a nice looking car, though I'll admit my taste isn't mainstream.
There have been some successful conversions of X1-9s.
The problem is that all the X1-9s are quite old now, and long out of the US
market. Spares availability is apt to be a significant concern.
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"John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ... looked horrible ... More power ... no-regen higher power DC
> setup ... transmission ... lead acid ... Keep the parts cost low.
Solectria designed the Sunrise to be a showcase for (then) advanced EV
technology. Even under the new regime, it's hard to imagine them
entertaining the idea of fitting the Sunrise with a DC motor, multispeed
transmission, and/or lead batteries. In fact, though I know these things
aren't
always a bad idea for an EV, just thinking about putting them in such an
elegantly designed EV makes ^me^ sad.
Nor would I expect Solectria to be keen on the idea of giving it huge gobs of
power. I think they'd be realistic about consumers' desires, which have been
affected by the automakers' advertising convincing them that they somehow
need a car that can go from 0 to 60 in 10 seconds. However, cars that ooze
testosterone are just not their style. <g>
Besides, they meant it as a family car. The Sunrise was designed to have
about as much passenger room for four as a midsize US vehicle. In fact a
Sunrise would be considered a large car in Europe. I believe that one reason
that Toyota Prius sales have taken off in the states is that the new version of
the car is in that size range that many Americans are comfortable with.
Because of that, I think that the Sunrise has significantly more potential to
put Americans in an EV than the EV1 ever had.
As for appearance, I've never seen a Sunrise in person, but all the photos I've
seen showed a car that I consider sleek, even beautiful, and quite well
finished for a prototype. I think the people who've described it as looking
like
an unfinished kit car have stumbled onto a version that had been deliberately
stripped down to be as light as possible for range competition purposes.
As for price - consider the fact that we already have people who are willing to
pay $24K for a ^used^ EV1.
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Ok.. update on Nick's DC/DC.
We did a postmortem, and it appears a power resistor attached to the
heatsink is fried. As in burn marks on the board, both halves of the
case split etc.
This is the same part that failed in my DC/DC some time ago.
The HV power section in the DC/DC is pretty straightforward. Two
independent IGBTs driven from the same gate driver chip. Each acts as
the low side driver for one of the isolation/step down transformers.
(For some reason the circuit uses two transformers in parallel, I'd
guess it was a cost/parts selection thing). A 50watt resistor is in
series with the transformer/igbt circuit on the high side, and a 30watt
resistor on the low side. The 30watt resistor blew up.
The PWM controller chip (HV9120) has a max 50% duty cycle. My guess
would be some event is causing the controller chip to freak out or
restart and leave the IGBTs in a on state for longer than normal. The
resulting short circuit blows the fuse, or the series resistor.
I don't see much brownout protection or caps in the isolated 12v supply
that runs the PWM chip.
Anyhow.. the verdict is that the DC/DC is repairable. I'm not any
closer to an answer about what is happening, but a larger input cap
looks promising.
If anyone else has a dead DCP DC/DC I'd be willing to take a look at it.
Mark Farver
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exactly what i mean.
maybe you make sort of strong spring between the pads helping them to stay
away from rotor when there is no brake pressure ?
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 20, 2005 8:44 PM
Subject: Re: Renualt LeCar
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> > the piston is at the position he was put by the mounter man:^)
> > the system which return back "a little" the piston is the washer
> > form, there is some sort of lip on it that deform hitself when
> > going one way and so force to go backward (few micrometre)
> > sufficiently to let the rotor rotate again withoug drag when
> > you release brake pressure.
>
> I understand. In my Renault LeCar, the disk brake pistons have a rubber
> seal, shaped like an "O" ring with a square cross-section. When you step
> on the brakes and the piston slides out, the outside part of this seal
> sits still and the inner part moves with the piston. So, it gets
> stretched a bit. When you release the brake, the rubber seal pulls the
> piston back a little bit.
>
> However, the amount that it pulls back is tiny; invisible to the naked
> eye. There is enough runout in the wheel bearings and out-of-round in
> the brake rotor that it *still* hits the pad as it turns. Plus, the pad
> is not attached to the piston; it is free to "lean" on the rotor as it
> turns. Thus, there is a constant light drag as you rotate the wheel,
> even with the brakes off.
>
> With drum brakes, there is an actual spring to pull the shoes away from
> the drum. They also pull the shoes away a considerable distance, so that
> bearing runout and out-of-round conditions on the drum still don't touch
> the brake shoes. It is much easier to adjust them so they don't drag.
> --
> "The two most common elements in the universe
> are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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