EV Digest 4233
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Phoenix EV's at the car show.
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Flooded batteries max current?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Esprit costing
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Crushed EV Pictures
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: How not to replace a Force heater
by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) VW,bug and reg Pick-up aero mods, was Re: VW bug orginal cd.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Adapter machine drawings
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Flooded batteries max current?
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: American business model
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Adapter plate ideas
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Flooded batteries max current?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Adapter plate ideas
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Flooded batteries max current?
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Heard on the Jay Leno show
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Texas to New York using just 12 batteries!
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: American business model
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Adapter Ideas
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Phoenix EV's at the car show.
by "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: American business model
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Esprit costing
by "Peter Eckhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Esprit costing
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: VW,bug and reg Pick-up aero mods, was Re: VW bug orginal cd.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Flooded batteries max current?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Texas to New York using just 12 batteries!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) remove
by "johnk" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) How to quiet an MR2 PS Pump
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: How to quiet an MR2 PS Pump
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: How to quiet an MR2 PS Pump
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: How to quiet an MR2 PS Pump
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
A friend and I went to Phoenix yesterday to see Phoenix EAA EV's at the car
show. What an eye opener!
It was really great to actually talk to people and say words like
controller, battery pack, etc, instead of just reading and think about them.
Even more exciting to see the actually elements instead of just jpeg's.
There were about 6 EV's including 2 GM S-10's, a Soletric S-10, a racer, a
TEVan and about 2 hybrids. And about 300 ICE cars chromed, polished and
beautifully detailed.
The 2 GM S-10's were from ev bones, the sales reps were there, and I learned
some interesting things about them. None can be sold in Arizona. I asked why
and got a vague answer about it violates the GM - EV Bones agreement. Later,
one of the sales reps was talking about the NiMH batteries, saying that they
were not too good in the AZ heat, that during the summer months they just
got too hot and would cook, so he just keeps his in his garage on a trickle
charge for about 6 months.... WOW... and with the cooling system! Maybe that
is why they can's sell any here, who would want a truck that only works 1/2
the time? Also, something that I didn't know, the GM S-10's have a diesel
heater and a 10 gal tank. When they need heat they burn the diesel in a
cermaic heater. Should the GM S10 be considered a hybrid since it burns
diesel? One of the reps was saying that the lead acid packs really only get
about 15-20 miles to a charge. I said they why is there a link to the SOCAL
Edison report saying they get 40-45 miles to a charge. His response was that
the report was a controlled test, on a smooth road, with tires up to full
pressure, etc. Go figure... Also it seems that there is only about a 600lb
payload, so why keep it as a pickup? Which I plan not to do with my 86
Mitsu. Gonna do an aerodynamically styled back.
I was really glad to see the Soletric S10 with the dual motors in the back.
I've been thinking about doing that for my '86 Mitsu, with just one motor,
and seeing the two (coupled by a belt drive!) makes me think I have enough
room. I can just directly connect my motor to the drive shaft and have no
transmission, no bell housing, no adapter plate.
Seeing how the battery packs were mounted, the wires routed, the connectors,
all the nuts and bolts of how things are done instead of blowing up a jpeg
was really informative. Now I have to find some EVers here in Tucson. Any
leads would be appreciated.
Rush
Tucson AZ
converting a '86 Mitsubishi truck
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I went for a drive today with the current turned up to 500 battery amps
in the Zilla, and a fully charged pack. I hooked up an analog voltmeter
to see if the battery voltage would sag below 1.75volts/cell or not at
500 amps as Lee suggested it shouldn't.
Well, I quickly found out that now even with just 150-200 amp battery
draws the pack voltage was dropping below 140 volts (1.75volts/cell)! It
looked like it was dropping to about 130-135 volts.
Then, several times, I floored it and got the Zilla to draw about 500
amps from the batteries. Interestingly, the voltage sag at 500 amps
wasn't much worse than at 150 amps, I'd say the lowest it went was
110-120 volts. I only held it floored for about 5 seconds at a time, for
fear of further damaging these batteries.
So, now I'm trying to figure out how I can have this much voltage sag
without obvious signs that something is wrong? None of the batteries are
getting hot, none of the connections or terminals are getting hot. The
battery cables and terminals get a tad warm, but only after I've been
pulling upwards of 300 amps from the batteries for awhile. Today it was
cool outside, in the high 60s. But I've seen pretty bad voltage sag like
this even on days when it has been warmer. :-/
Lee Hart wrote:
When everything is right, you should be able to pull over 500 amps
from a fully charged 8v battery without its voltage sagging to 7v
(1.75v/cell).
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Wouldn't the Elan be a better choice? LR...............
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Like:
Owner GM
Range: 169 miles
Batteries NIMH
Picture of Crushed EV
Lawrence Rhodes..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 2:20 PM
Subject: Crushed EV Pictures
Hi folks,
Can anyone point me to some non-copyrighted high resolution pictures of
the crushed EV-1s, Rangers, and any other OEM EVs? I am considering
making a page showing this current OEM concept of electric cars. :(
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If somebody cut the firewall of my unibody car they would be in for a
big surprise. Unless it were supported by the manufacturer.
Mike G.
Dave wrote:
last time I had to replace the heater core on my Neice's Golf, I did
the same exact thing. After hours of work, I gave up and reassembled
it. She then took it to a shop, where the cut the firewall and
replaced the core. Sealed it right back up. Sigh.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold
S. Hulbert
----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 2:48 PM
Subject: How not to replace a Force heater
Hi folks,
Sometime back on the EVDL someone asked about cutting though the
firewall on their donor car to remove the heater core. I kind of
poo-pooed the idea, as most car heater cores aren't that difficult to
access if you have the proper instructions. Well, I was wrong. Some
cars just SUCK. The heater on my Force hasn't never worked since I
put it on the road, so yesterday I tore into it to try and find the
problem. I have the factory Geo service manual, so I carefully
followed their instructions. To remove the heater core, you have to
remove the entire dashboard and steering column! After hours of
work, I finally got it all out. I then discovered Solectria had
found an easier way. They had simply cut a hole in the side of the
heater housing, yanked out the heater core, then inserted the ceramic
heater elements. Had I noticed this sooner it would have saved me
hours of labor.
Anyway, once I got it out and accessed it, I discovered the element
had failed. I suspect this happened way back when the car was new.
The heater blower did not work on the lowest fan speed setting, which
just happens to be the setting used by the pre-heater. Without any
airflow, the element would heat up, the over heat switch would
trigger, the element would cool, the switch would then cycle it back
on. After several months of this the element apparently failed. I
have now repaired the blower and replaced the element and just in
time for warm spring weather. I have heat now that I won't need it.
:) Timing is everything.
It does appear there are times when simply hacking the heater box
open might just be the better solution. With a little care, one
could even make an access plate that screws in to allow future
repairs if needed, rather than simply sticking it all back together
with copious quantities of black silicon adhesive as Solectria did.
You like and you learn.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence and All,
Sorry for being late on this, been busy ;-))
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The Cx of the Beetle, measured in the wind tunnel of
> the Polytechnic of
> Stoccarda onf the final prototype, measured just
> 0.385. theis data increased
> to 0.41 in mass production but in any case it
> remained an exceptionally low
> value for the epoch (1938). The tatum was also
> confirmed by the particularly
> low value of the absorbed power to travel to 100
> km/h: only 15CV. To make a
> comparison you hve to think that a modern VW Pole
> first series absorbs 17.2
> to the same speed. You have to notice that the
> aesthetic modifications
> introduced inthe 67model (squared bumpers and
> vertical headlights. Made the
> Cd of the Beetle meningfully worse and in the last
> models it appeared to be
> equal to 0.48. That being said would bolting on
> slant back headlight fenders
> and different bumpers and maybe a dam help VW cd?
> LR......
The bad aero of a bug is mostly because of the
upright windsheild which throws air straight up making
the apparent frontal area much larger and the shape of
the fenders which are about as bad as you can get, on
either the bug or super.
The best way to help it is get a fastback or
squareback VW, either of which are much better aero by
50%. Or better, a Karman Ghia! Even a VW bus is better
aero than a bug!
If you did 4 new fenders shapes could help but
still held back by the windsheild. It's the rear 1/2
of the fender that's bad. Aero mirrors could help.
An airfoil like some trucks have over their
windsheilds may help by forcing the air to pile up on
front of the bug, truck making a aero shape of stalled
air but would take some experimenting to do.
It would stick out forward of the windsheild about
12-18" with a slot about 4" between it and the roof
curved down in front 4-6" so to direct the air aft
rather than up. This make a slot effect like used on
wingsails on class C cats or Conner's Stars and
Stripes America Cup cat.
This can work on EV pickups too with an aero shell
on the back to greatly increase higher speed range by
15-35%!!..
Then before the roof curves down much in the
rear, put a small spoiler on it and down each side so
the air will break cleanly giving a Kammback effect
would help a bunch.
A small spoiler on the rear edge of the wheel
wells and across the top of them just aft of the top
of the curve that breaks the air from curling down, in
would help them though look strange. What you are
trying to do is make small vortexes to put the rear in
a wind shadow to prevent large ones.
A 1"x 3/8" high wedge of wood, ect would make the
needed spoiler on the roof, sides.
The headlights are not a problem as the air stalls
in front of them and makes an apparent fairing. To see
what I mean put yarn all over your bug like we do on
sails though 3' long and go driving with someone video
taping and it will become clear. This works on pickups
or and cars too.
If you want to stick to a bug or super, go ahead
but don't go over 50mph much and it will be great if
you don't do the aero tricks above!
I'd remove the bumpers and other stuff to lose
weight. The motor is about 240lbs and that's about all
besides the gas tank.
Lose the spare drops another 35lbs and replace it
with a air can and a tire patch kit.
HTH's,
jerry dycus
>
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 415-821-3519
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone offer machine drawings for various transmission adaptors? The
idea being of course to get one made up by a machinist friend.
Looking for sources, types of vehicles, etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick are you sure the sag is even? The real question is, do you have a
string of batteries sagging about the same, or is all but one or two
sagging a small amount and the remaining ones falling flat or
reversing? I have had this happen several times. The defective
batteries seem fine when checked with no load and seem to have good
specific gravity, but slap them with a couple of hundred amps and they fall
flat on their face. When I had trouble locating the problem battery I made
up a 10 foot extension for my multi meter with two large alligator clips on
the end, then selected one suspect battery and measure its voltage while
accelerating hard. I then repeated this with every other battery until I
found the stinkers. In my case the bad one actually went negative under
load. It was turning into a resistor. As soon as you took the load off it
snapped right back with everyone else.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
check with ed meyers of san diego electric cars. he
did a very nice conversion of a hyundai elantra. 9"
Advanced or WarP 144v dc, self watering system all in
all a very good professional conversion and could sel
them in fact still has one with only a few miles and
cannot get anyone to buy it for even 10,000 which is
way less than 1/2 of what he has invested. I think we
have to look at what has failed before we think about
doing it again. look at the voltswabbit kits a very
few actually got bought and made it to the road. I
drive a VW bug and it siuts my needs but would never
be practicle as a "production conversion" ya just
can't get folks to pay what it costs to build the cars
even if you donate your labor...
kEVs
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tim wrote:
>
> > > Kia and Hyundai might be options
>
> It appears Hyundai owns Kia(51%). I never knew Kia
> made the Ford Festiva's...
>
>
http://www.detnews.com/specialreports/2001/undersiege/koreatimeline/koreatimeline.htm
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
roger wrote
I would counter that setup cost will dominate unless you do a generic
plate because I seriously doubt that any of the EV parts suppliers
presently orders even a run of 10 vehicle-specific plates at a time.
Yes I think that is the current method, I would like to see what can be done about that.
I strongly suspect that adapters are largely built to order because no
supplier wants to have thousands of dollars tied up in a stack of
adapter plates that he may have to wait years to sell off.
If it costs 1000 for 3 custom built to order but only 1500 for 10 of
each? I am speculating because I only have word of mouth estimates so
far, the quotes come back monday. And adapters I see sold are like $750
and I am pretty sure they are not marking up all that much.
I seriously doubt that even a generic adapter would ever have 100 holes.
agreed, it was not my number.
>It is not actually necessary for the end user to drill anything; this
>could be done by the parts supplier when the end user specifies the
>tranny they are using.
I can see how thru hole would be cheaper and how the pilot hole idea
works for that style
I can't see drilling just before shipment as a normal action, that adds
a step at the worst possible time and either I pick up that pilot or I
float the plate and that is not safe, The depth of the plate will
preclude using a drill press on some holes. But if we are not tapping
them, Not so bad
Use same bolts or I was gonna supply bolts. Personally I don't want to
have bolts and nuts, it takes someone on both sides unless it is on the
bench and could interfere with something on the other side. I would like
someone to be able to take their EV into the tranny shop and have the
mechanic use a lift to pull the tranny,
Because my plate is tapped, it is thicker(5/8), thus making the jigsaw a
pain. CNC's often use a thread mill not a tap, I will find out if the
cost is significant.
I really don't think it is unreasonable that someone undertaking an EV
conversion would be capable of using a jig saw to customise the generic
adapter's profile to their specific bellhousing, should they choose to
do so.
<chide> but why should they? they are paying for someone else to do the
machine work, he with the best adapter wins?</chide>
The design I have now is akin to the motorplate in sprintcars and high
power race cars, the two holes out wide are for the torque reaction you
mentioned, they are as close to the frame as possible to best transfer
the torque, that way I need 2 not 4 :-) but it is more alum and a pain
to install and very specific to rear wheel drives.
The flat shown at http://cvevs.jfs-tech.com is only 1/2 inch above the
nissan tranny, I chose it above the bell housing becasue in that car the
tranny is 5 or 6 inches intot the engine compartment, the shelf can go
back over the tranny a bit.
I have just been offered a running 88 honda accord as a donar, perfect
body, 280K motor , free. I may get to a front wheel drive next.
Funny you mentioned SBC that is what my adapter is! connected to it is a
"button flywheel" I just realized that If I include the flywheel(gotta
change that name, how about "clutch mounting surface") in the adapter,
I can eliminate 6 threaded holes and a dowel pin and about an inch of
overall height. This saves money on the motor bell, it can be shallower.
using tilton/quartermaster/avg 2 plate racing clutch is cool because
there are lots on ebay since people changed to internal or 4.5" clutches
and they are all the same bolt pattern! a racing standard. Plus the
clutch can handle the torque. Tilton made me a set of paltes for my .5
tripple plate for $160 they put whatever spline you want in there.
The throw out bearing is a challenge :-(
There are a lot of interconnected costs and ways of doing things, The
other idea is to make a mock-block that you bolt the warp 9 into. This
makes an easy kit(for the converter) but there I would probably want to
make it use stock clutch and recommend they get an alum flywheel.
I am really getting excited about the prospects, thanks roger and all
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So, now I'm trying to figure out how I can have this much voltage sag
> without obvious signs that something is wrong? None of the batteries are
> getting hot, none of the connections or terminals are getting hot. The
> battery cables and terminals get a tad warm, but only after I've been
> pulling upwards of 300 amps from the batteries for awhile. Today it was
> cool outside, in the high 60s. But I've seen pretty bad voltage sag like
> this even on days when it has been warmer. :-/
The air temp isn't nearly as important as the battery temp. If you aren't
measuring battery temp, go to Walmart, Autozone, etc. and buy a car
thermometer with an external temp sensor (usually a little plastic puck on
a long wire) and drop the sensor down between two batteries in the middle
of the pack. If the battery temp is below 80�F then you will see more
than normal sag. If the pack temp is 60-70�, then sag like you describe
sounds about right.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When we start using ~10,000 rpm AC motors, we might need to use a
"Blowproof Bellhousing":
http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=2141&prmenbr=361
And SFI rated clutch discs, pressure plates, and flywheels:
http://www.specclutch.com/products.html
http://www.sfifoundation.com/speclist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
sounds like a real good reason to have a battery monitor
http://genki.home.ionet.net/BattMon/BattMonArticle.html
I'd love to build one, but for one set it is pretty expensive (about $500),
anybody else want to get an order together?
Rush
Tucson AZ
converting a '86 Mitsubishi truck
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 7:09 PM
Subject: Re: Flooded batteries max current?
> Nick are you sure the sag is even? The real question is, do you have a
> string of batteries sagging about the same, or is all but one or two
> sagging a small amount and the remaining ones falling flat or reversing?
> I have had this happen several times. The defective batteries seem fine
> when checked with no load and seem to have good specific gravity, but slap
> them with a couple of hundred amps and they fall flat on their face. When
> I had trouble locating the problem battery I made up a 10 foot extension
> for my multi meter with two large alligator clips on the end, then
> selected one suspect battery and measure its voltage while accelerating
> hard. I then repeated this with every other battery until I found the
> stinkers. In my case the bad one actually went negative under load. It
> was turning into a resistor. As soon as you took the load off it snapped
> right back with everyone else.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mike Chancey,
> '88 Civic EV
> '95 Solectria Force
> Kansas City, Missouri
> EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
> My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
> Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
> Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower wrote:
>"Two-eighty a gallon today when I filled up. To give
>you an idea how expensive it is, today on
>Hollywood
>Boulevard I saw a pimp in an electric car"
Perhaps it's because fully pimped-out EVs are real pimp
mobiles. Just note Blue Meanie, or Bill Dube's tricked out
Rabbit.
"Yeah, I gots twin 8s and a Zilla 2k up in 'dis beotch, so
you ladies buckle up n' hold on, 'cause Mac Daddy D's gonna'
put the hamma down, in style mutha' f***a'."
*scre-eee-e-e-e-e-eeeech*
*whiiirrrrrrrrrr*
Has Jay ever brought up the EV1 he'd like to have? Maybe
it's time he had an EV built for him, or snatched up AC
Propulsion's Li Ion TZero. That thing could be a major
collector's item some day, right up his alley. I do remember
him having a Corbon Sparrow.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Mar 2005 at 7:34, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> There is a web site with a 10 page paper written by a guy who worked for a
> motor company that Newman took his motor to for them to make , I hope
> somebody has this address, it is painfully funny .
Is this what you're thinking of?
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/free_energy/164650.html
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Mar 2005 at 12:50, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> It appears Hyundai owns Kia(51%). I never knew Kia made the Ford
> Festiva's...
I've mentioned the first fact a couple of times, and the second one several
times. I guess you don't read my posts. Sniff. <grin>
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All
Well, I'm stunned at the response this post started. I've been away a few
days, so I'm wading through over 200 emails, but I'm glad that this has
stirred up the ideas cauldron, comments inserted:
At 12:53 PM 25/03/05 -0800, Roger wrote:
Lee Hart wrote:
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
> > I looked into some of the details of the generic mountings
> > that james was talking about and i decided it looked ugly
> > and actually added cost to have extra holes...
The idea was for extra *pilot* holes, as stated (probably better than I
did) below, rather than a 'swiss-cheese' look. This would allow for the
tranny to be plunked down on the plate, and the pre-drilled starter holes
lined up, and drill away, on center. That's if it would be accurate enough,
but that's part of what the debate is about.
<snip> However, if one wanted to go the generic adapter route with reasonable
appearance, it would be possible to not drill *any* holes all the way
through, but instead only have pilot holes for a variety of bellhousings
drilled partially through _from_the_tranny_side_. The end user would
place the plate on his bellhousing and identify which set of holes to
finish drilling out. Once assembled to the bellhousing, the unused
partially drilled holes would be hidden from sight and the only bolts
would be the ones required to hold the adapter to the bellhousing.
That was much the thought. But probably with the motor options fully
drilled?
If the end user wants that 'custom' look, they could trace out the shape
of their bellhousing on the plate after mating them, and then remove the
plate and use a jig saw to trim the adapter as desired.
Better than to use a jigsaw is to take your marked-out plate to an
aluminium metalworker, and have them bandsaw it for you. I started to
jigsaw my plate edge, and realised that it would be less of my time to
drive to the metal shop twice (once to deliver and once to collect) than to
cut it out myself.
Some interesting ideas have come out of this thread; keep 'em coming!
My sentiments also!
Gadget also wrote about a sub-assembly that would contain almost everything
bar the batteries, but I think (FWIW) that a fixed-layout assembly would be
too limiting due to the variety of vehicles that people choose to convert.
However, if it were a slightly more modular arrangement where modules are
bolted together to set the desired combinations and layout, with the same
end result, it may be a useable concept. Were I doing a more conventional
vehicle (rather than a cab-over truck) I would have been looking at a
removeable sub-assembly much as gadget described.
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Either something is seriously wrong with those trucks, they're being driven
up hills (and with payloads), or the batteries are trash. I suspect the
latter. Every other GM S-10E I've seen got very, very respectable range (for
a pickup truck on lead acid batteries). And by respectable I mean at least
double the high end of the 15-20 mile range you were quoted when driven
under normal conditions.
-----Original Message-----
One of the reps was saying that the lead acid packs really only get about
15-20 miles to a charge. I said they why is there a link to the SOCAL Edison
report saying they get 40-45 miles to a charge. His response was that the
report was a controlled test, on a smooth road, with tires up to full
pressure, etc.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 27 Mar 2005 at 10:04, Fortunat Mueller wrote:
> Did Solectria get those geo's as gliders from the
> factory ? or did they buy them and chuck the engines ?
For most of the Force's life, they bought complete cars and disposed of the
ICE drivetrain. The last few years they were able to get gliders.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Do you have any pictures of the Esprit conversion?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jukka Järvinen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 15:05 PM
Subject: Re: Esprit costing
> I had a Esprit in lab for poking. Mid engine + gearbox + differential.
> Uh... So bautiful place for 2x AC+ Elfa inverter + Lions + Caps. And
> they all fit nicely in there. It would be ridiculously easy to find the
> original balance which is superb.
>
> I was looking for nice donor but when Lotus announced stopping
> manufacturing the Esprit prices skyrocketed for exsisitng individuals. I
> have a some pics and sata about the car and would LOVE to buy one (if
> price would be in right place.) One carshop would really love to buy all
> ICE parts. ( you can obviously see we are all in love in here ;)
>
> Anyway... Lotus Esprit would make a real nice EV.
>
> All never models do have V8. Some older models are available second hand
> in mobile.de but prices are not friendly anymore.
>
> Heck.. it must be good car since James Bond drove one... and even under
> water...
>
> -Jukka
>
>
>
> Paul Compton wrote:
> >> The terrain
> >> is generally flat with a few moderate hills. The car weighs around
> >> 3,000lbs
> >> with a V8(?).
> >
> >
> > Yes, the last Esprits were 3 litre V8 turbos (they didn't sound like
> > V8's because of the single plane crank).
> >
> > Best avoid, as they'd got pretty porky by that stage.
> >
> > There were lightweight 'LS' versions, with both the 4 pot (LS200) and
> > V8(LS300), but they're going to be hard to find.
> >
> > Go for an earlier car with a raplacement spaceframe chassis, custom
> > built to hold batteries.
> >
> > Paul Compton
> > www.sciroccoev.co.uk
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter Eckhoff wrote:
>He is targeting a Lotus Esprit
>http://www.espritfactfile.com/ for various
>reasons including a little bit of cache and a
>likelihood of availability.
>His goal is to create tZero like performance with a
>range of 150 miles. He
>"needs" the car to go 100 miles at close to Interstate
>speeds. The terrain
>is generally flat with a few moderate hills. The car
>weighs around 3,000lbs
>with a V8(?). His initial thinking is to use Lithium
>based batteries
>although he is open to suggestions.
For 150 miles in a car like the Esprit WITH TZero like
performance, Li Ion or Li Poly is really your only realistic
option. And not the cheap Thunderskies, either, but either
labtop batteries(which will be a pain and absurdly time
consuming or expensive to build a pack out of), or Kokam Li
Poly. We're talking a $30,000 battery pack, or more, since
such things you need aren't mass produced.
>I have found a lot of Esprit pictures on the net but
>not enough technical
>info to plug into Uve's Calculator.
Coefficient of Drag = .33
Frontal Area = 19.4 feet square
http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/lotus.htm
Curb Weight ~ 2,970 pounds
http://www.midengine-motorsports.com/Production/Lotus/350/Sport350.htm
Engine Weight: 275 pounds for Lotus Esprit 907(Not V8)
http://www.team.net/sol/tech/engine.html
Gear ratio data shouldn't be hard to find, either.
>Not sure of the Lotus's energy usage per mile so I
>used
>200 Wh/mi as a conservative number.
A car that porky and with such a large frontal area will
more or less wind up consuming 250 or so wh/mile with a DC
setup @60-65 MPH, 230 wh/mile with AC setup. This assumes
33 Cd and 19 square foot frontal area with 3,300 pound
weight w/batteries.
>The Lotus Esprit would be a good choice for low Cd
>(coefficient of drag).
It�s not that low. Much better exists, even from Lotus
themselves.
If I had that much money to burn for an Esprit, I'd say
screw the Esprit and get a Lotus Elise. The Elise is much
lighter, looks a lot better in my opinion(I hate wedges very
much though, so I'm biased), and as a new car chances are
you'll find one a LOT cheaper than a used Esprit V8. Cd of
Elise is .34, with a frontal area of 17 feet square. MUCH
better than a Lotus Esprit considering it's about 1,100
pounds lighter! 180 wh/mile with an AC drive wouldn't be out
of the question.
Another great-looking Lotus candidate would be a pre-wedge
Lotus Elite or a Lotus Europa. Both were in the 1600 pound
region, and both had coefficients of drag of .29. The Europa
appears to have ample battery room for being such a small
car, especially in the rear. Their frontal areas are around
16 feet square as well, so you could be seeing < 140 wh/mile
consumption at 60-65 MPH. Europas in good condition can be
found for reasonable prices(< $10,000), but avoid the early
ones because they are difficult to repair/restore(fiberglass
and all). The Elite would be hard to find, and certainly
expensive, but would make a very efficient and slick-looking
EV.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 27 Mar 2005 19:09:03 -0800 (PST), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> The bad aero of a bug is mostly because of the
> upright windsheild which throws air straight up making
> the apparent frontal area much larger and the shape of
> the fenders which are about as bad as you can get, on
> either the bug or super.
> The best way to help it is get a fastback or
> squareback VW, either of which are much better aero by
> 50%. Or better, a Karman Ghia! Even a VW bus is better
> aero than a bug!
It's more useful to compare cd*A figures. (coefficient of drag
multiplied by frontal area). Then, people won't be confused into
thinking that a VW bus would require less energy than a Beetle, to
move at a given speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 20:54:50 -0600, Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Lee Hart wrote:
> > 8v batteries are basically the same, except the allowable currents are
> > proportionately lower; more like 150 amps for normal life, 350 amps for
> > half life.
>
> Well, it's interesting to hear you say that because I can't seem to pull
> more than say 200 amps without the voltage sagging below 1.75 volts per
> cell. This is with Trojan T-875s.
>
> According to my logs, this pack now has 76 cycles on it.
According to what you've posted before, you murdered the pack rather early on!
I suggest that you make a dump load that will absorb 100 or so amps,
connect it up and go around all of the batteries with a good volt
meter while it's under load and get a reading every 10 minutes of all
the battery voltages. You will soon see what is going on - whether
the whole pack is sulphated and sagging or if just a few cells are
damaged and reversing under load.
If the whole pack seems to be doing the same thing, then first check
that you are charging it properly, and then cycle it fully, 5-10 times
and see if the capacity increases. Install an E-Meter so that you are
able to keep track of the actual AH used.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's the one , Thanks ,
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, March 27, 2005 11:35 PM
Subject: Re: Texas to New York using just 12 batteries!
On 27 Mar 2005 at 7:34, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
There is a web site with a 10 page paper written by a guy who worked for
a
motor company that Newman took his motor to for them to make , I hope
somebody has this address, it is painfully funny .
Is this what you're thinking of?
http://www.totse.com/en/fringe/free_energy/164650.html
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
remove
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I got my power steering working this weekend. The Toyota MR2 pump works
great. But it is way too noisy.
Has anyone tried to insulate the noise of these pumps?
Has anyone had any luck with a control circuit to have these on when the
load demands it?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 28 Mar 2005 07:54:35 -0800, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I got my power steering working this weekend. The Toyota MR2 pump works
> great. But it is way too noisy.
>
> Has anyone tried to insulate the noise of these pumps?
>
> Has anyone had any luck with a control circuit to have these on when the
> load demands it?
I remembered that Jon Pullen had done this:
"I should mention at this point that people have reported success with just
putting a switch on the dash.. and the optical encoder thing really isn't
that tough, either.. there's usually a lot of 'play' in the steering
linkage, and you can pretty much use the assembly from a mouse wholesale..
mine just counts five pulses and then switches on the relay, then resets a
timer, and turns off the relay if the timer expires... I mostly just didn't
want the pump running when I was sitting stuck in traffic."
It sounds like he's using a micro to decide when to switch the pump
on. Another way to do it would be to use a 555 "re-triggerable"
circuit, something like this should do it.
http://www.terrypin.dial.pipex.com/Images/555MonoRetriggerable.gif
Reduce the timing capacitor so that the on-time is a few seconds only.
Hydraulic power steering though, yuk :(
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What kind of noise does it make? On the Prizm mine is a pretty small
little whine, that's it. The brake pump is much louder, in fact the
water pump makes about the same amount of noise.
Mine however is mounted to the car with rubber isolation mounts.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 28 Mar 2005 at 17:18, Evan Tuer wrote:
> Hydraulic power steering though, yuk :(
Has anybody yet tried salvaging the electric power steering from a wrecked
Prius?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
