EV Digest 4237
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Troubled Batteries (was: Flooded batteries max current)
by "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Troubled Batteries (was: Flooded batteries max current)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Band saw was Re: Adapter Ideas
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Fwd: [BMBB] Toshiba's New Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery Recharges in
Only One Minute
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Fast charge Li-Ion?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: [BMBB] Toshiba's New Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery Recharges in
Only One Minute
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Fwd: Re: How to quiet an MR2 PS Pump
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Fast charge Li-Ion?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Band saw was Re: Adapter Ideas
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Band saw was Re: Adapter Ideas
by "Jack Knopf" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) TdS Report #1: The Tour de Sol Reports Ride Again!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) TdS Report #2: The 17th Annual Tour de Sol in Saratoga and Albany, NY
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Family EV Kit?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) TdS Report #3: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Small regenerative motor question
by Dave Narby <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fast charge Li-Ion?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Charger Shock - ground the car body??
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Adapter machine drawings
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Fast charge Li-Ion?
by "David C. Navas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: TdS Report #3: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Evan Tuer wrote:
> Hi Nick,
> Is this after charging?
No. I had charged them and then went for a short drive (about 3 miles) several
hours earlier. Hopefully I'll have time tonight to charge them and then use the
hydrometer to measure every cell. I only posted those specific gravity numbers
I got last night because I'm interested to know if they're suppose to be closer
to a common value?
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--
--signature--
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 15:27:06 -0000, Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Evan Tuer wrote:
> > Hi Nick,
> > Is this after charging?
>
> No. I had charged them and then went for a short drive (about 3 miles)
> several hours
> earlier. hopefully I'll have time tonight to charge them and then use the
> hydrometer to
> measure every cell. I only posted those specific gravity numbers I got last
> night because
> I'm interested to know if they're suppose to be closer to a common value?
In my experience, yes, they should be closer together than that. And
when fully charged, the SG should be a good bit higher too I think.
Once you've charged them (as you normally do), let them sit overnight
and do the test the next day.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The truth is that cutting aluminum is a little bit
tricky. but if you have the proper size gullet in the
blade, proper blade speed and lubrication, the stuff
cuts like butter. I was able to cut out the adapter
plate for my conversion in less time than we has spent
on this discussion. less than 10 minutes. I made my
adapter out of 1/4 material. It was so stiff that I
was able to stand on the set up and didn't detect any
flexing. I believe that other adapter plates are so
thick because so much spacing is required when using a
flywheel spacer/adapter. By putting the taperlock
inside the flywheel I only needed the 1/4 thicknessof
the plate I used. If I were to start a conversion
business tomorrow I would use stock flywheels cut down
in diameter with the taperlok fitted into it. That way
I would avoid the cost of the flywheel adapter and
spacer. My machining costs for that operation are
still way less than the cost of the adapter. I would
then be able to use the stock pressure plate and disc.
there would be no worries about weather the throwout
bearing would work. and I would have the confidence
that the tranny wouldn't blow up when I done with it,
since the stock plate shouldn't be able to transmit
enough torque to blow the thing up. What I'm talking
about here is a good daily driver not a high
performance hot rod. the car would have plenty of
power but not enough to eat itself. Using this method
I could build a different model everytime and still be
less costly than the universal adapter plate/flywheel
adapter/spacer ring combo, and still turn a profit. I
just don't see that there will all af a sudden be a
huge market for conversions. By the time we get to
that point, we will have done our job as a group
(educating and advocating) and some OEM will be
manufacturing.
end of rant
Thanks for listening
Gadget
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I can see where a "wood" blade will last longer on
> aluminium because the
> default wood blade has less teeth per inch than the
> default metal blade.
> Alum is softer and takes a bigger chip and it must
> be cleared or the
> blade rubs more than cuts.
>
> As for the depth, Look at my adapter plate, the ears
> to the frame do
> make it quite wide. Cutting a basically round shape
> out of a rectangle,
> eventually you are at that 45 degree section where
> the corner is hitting
> and you get to back up and come in at 90 degrees to
> remove the corner so
> you can continue. This doesn't happen all the time,
> the point is more
> that it takes time, human, attended time. In other
> than hobby projects,
> that spells money. The water jet , or laser, or
> plasma program and hit
> the go button.
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Entire article:
>
> http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm
>
> Text from the article:
>
> TOKYO -- Toshiba Corporation today announced a breakthrough in
> lithium-ion batteries that makes long recharge times a thing of the
> past. The company's new battery can recharge 80% of a battery's
> energy capacity in only one minute, approximately 60 times faster
> than the typical lithium-ion batteries in wide use today, and
> combines this fast recharge time with performance-boosting
> improvements in energy density.
>
> The new battery fuses Toshiba's latest advances in nano-material
> technology for the electric devices sector with cumulative know-how
> in manufacturing lithium-ion battery cells. A breakthrough
> technology applied to the negative electrode uses new nano-particles
> to prevent organic liquid electrolytes from reducing during battery
> recharging. The nano-particles quickly absorb and store vast amount
> of lithium ions, without causing any deterioration in the electrode.
>
> The excellent recharging characteristics of new battery are not its
> only performance advantages. The battery has a long life cycle,
> losing only 1% of capacity after 1,000 cycles of discharging and
> recharging, and can operate at very low temperatures. At minus 40
> degrees centigrade, the battery can discharge 80% of its capacity,
> against 100% in an ambient temperature of 25 degree centigrade).
>
> Toshiba will bring the new rechargeable battery to commercial
> products in 2006. Initial applications will be in the automotive and
> industrial sectors, where the slim, small-sized battery will deliver
> large amounts of energy while requiring only a minute to recharge.
> For example, the battery's advantages in size, weight and safety
> highly suit it for a role as an alternative power source for hybrid
> electric vehicles.
>
> Toshiba expects that the high energy density and excellent recharge
> performance of the new battery will assure its successful
> application as a new energy solution in many areas of society.
>
> Major Specifications of New Battery
> 1) Excellent Recharge Performance
> The thin battery recharges to 80% of full capacity in only a minute.
> Total recharge takes only a few more minutes.
> 2) High Energy Density
> Small and light, the new battery offers a high level of storage
> efficiency. The prototype battery is only 3.8mm thick, 62mm high and
> 35mm deep and has a capacity of 600mAh.
> 3) Long Life Cycle
> A prototype of new battery (a laminated lithium ion battery with
> 600mAh capacity) was discharged and fully recharged 1,000 times at a
> temperature of 25 degrees centigrade and lost only 1% of capacity
> during the test.
> 4) Temperature
> The new battery operates well in extremes of temperature. It
> discharges 80% of its capacity at minus 40 degrees centigrade,
> against 100% at an ambient temperature of 25 degrees centigrade, and
> loses only 5% of capacity at temperatures as high as 45 degrees
> centigrade after 1,000 cycles. These characteristics assure the wide
> applicability of the battery as a power source for products as
> diverse as hybrid vehicles and mobile phones.
> 5) Eco-friendly Battery
> The new battery can quickly store energy produced by locomotives and
> automobiles. This speedy and highly effective recharge
> characteristic of the battery will support CO2 reduction, as the
> battery can save and re-use energy that was simply wasted before.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is just a technology announcement, but it is the first time I
have seen a mention of nano-materials in a demonstrated product. Also
exciting is the mention of "automotive applications"!
Full story here: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2005/03/29/toshiba_li-ion_battery/
[..]
Toshiba has developed a Lithium-Ion battery capable of being charged
to 80 per cent of its full capacity in under 60 seconds. Filling it up
takes just "a few more minutes", the company boasted today.
Toshiba also claimed the new cell offers a greater longevity than
today's Li-ion batteries, losing only one per cent of its capacity
after 1000 charge cycles, according to the results of its own
charge-discharge testing.
The secret is the use of "nano-particles" to "prevent organic liquid
electrolytes from reducing during battery recharging. The
nano-particles quickly absorb and store vast amount of lithium ions,
without causing any deterioration in the electrode".
Toshiba's miracle battery will come to market next year, the company
said, initially in automotive and industrial applications.
[..]
Of course. we still have the technical problem of transmitting 40kWh
or so to a vehicle in "just a few minutes".. Any takers? Madman?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 08:19:08 -0800 (PST), Dave Cover
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Entire article:
> >
> > http://www.toshiba.co.jp/about/press/2005_03/pr2901.htm
Snap :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I actually wasn't aware there was any other kind of electric PAS
> other than the type I'm familiar with - i.e. in the steering column,
> which seems to be the default setup over here.
>
Oops, sounds like it's not what I pictured. I thought there was a rack out
there where the
electric drive is incorporated in the rack, not the steering column. Or am I
just halucinating? If
you wanted to use the electric assist on the column, you'd most likely have to
use the matching
steering gear or rack also. A hydraulic rack wouldn't work without hydraulic
supply. But how about
the column assist with a manual rack? Or is the gearing of the rack wrong?
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:19:53 +0100, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>This is just a technology announcement, but it is the first time I
>have seen a mention of nano-materials in a demonstrated product. Also
>exciting is the mention of "automotive applications"!
That is because the hypsters are co-opting that term and making it
meaningless. To use this same terminology for old, old technology,
consider: "The Carbon-zinc battery uses nanoparticles of manganese
dioxide to... yada yada yada".
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If I were to start a conversion
> business tomorrow I would use stock flywheels cut down
> in diameter with the taperlok fitted into it. That way
> I would avoid the cost of the flywheel adapter and
> spacer.
I'm looking at doing the same thing. I like the way it fits together nice and
tidy. One thing
though, you did have to machine the motor shaft to fit the tranny shaft and
bearing. I would
imagine this is a common configuration. I guess I should plan on sending the
motor out with the
flywheel when I get the machining done.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My adaptor plate is 1 inch aluminium. I took it to the local Machine Shop
and he said he might be able to get to cutting it a week from Thursday. One
shop said I could cut 1/8" sheet aluminium with a skill saw and a carbide
blade. So on my 1" aluminium adaptor plate I tried a carbide blade in a
skill saw, no good, then a diamond blade, no good, had an old plywood blade
laying around so I tried that. Went right through. Had to use about 3 of
them to get through 20" of 1" aluminium, but I did it and got on the road.
This adaptor plate I once had on an old Volkswagen and took the tranny out
to lay on the plate to mark the bell housing holes. I cut the 3" center hole
with a cordless drill and a hole saw. All holes were drilled with a cordless
drill. Centered the motor in the 3" hole , marked the holes, drilled , put
one side of transmission coupler on the motor, one side on the VW
tranny(welded), bolted the plate and motor on and took off. This was
clutchless.
On the Kia conversion I did a couple of weeks ago, I used this same 1"
aluminium plate, with the same motor. The Kia has a 1/16 spacer between the
tranny and the engine with all of the holes that are in the bell housing and
motor. A Template! I took this template, laid on the 1" plate, centered
around the existing 3" hole, marked the bell housing holes and then drilled
with a yard sale drill press. (Much better than cordless drill) Then took
center of clutch and had 1/8" machined off to fit in transmission coupler
and then welded clutch center to coupler. $20 at machine shop. I hacksawed
about 1/4" off the back of the clutch center to get the distance right with
not much play. Bolted this up and I am now driving around town. From
decision to driving was 9 days with no special tools. Again this was
clutchless. I have read a lot of the clutchless vs clutch and decided to go
clutchless just because it was simpler and quicker and I wanted to get on
the road.
My idea for an adaptor is just a flat aluminium plate with a 3" hole in the
center for clutchless and bigger hole for clutch. Not much machining and
could be bought in bulk. To the customer , send a nice white plastic
template, a sharpie, 3/8 drill bit and the plate. With instructions. Get a
deposit on the template to be returned when template is returned. They can
keep the sharpie. Instead of the coupler, I guess you could send a 2" steel
bar with a 7/8 inch hole in the middle to be machined for the tranny shaft
to motor shaft. I have never done a clutch version but am looking forward to
it. The Kia shifts really nice without one though, I can almost speed
shift.
Later, Jack.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 9:52 AM
Subject: Re: Band saw was Re: Adapter Ideas
The truth is that cutting aluminum is a little bit
tricky. but if you have the proper size gullet in the
blade, proper blade speed and lubrication, the stuff
cuts like butter. I was able to cut out the adapter
plate for my conversion in less time than we has spent
on this discussion. less than 10 minutes. I made my
adapter out of 1/4 material. It was so stiff that I
was able to stand on the set up and didn't detect any
flexing. I believe that other adapter plates are so
thick because so much spacing is required when using a
flywheel spacer/adapter. By putting the taperlock
inside the flywheel I only needed the 1/4 thicknessof
the plate I used. If I were to start a conversion
business tomorrow I would use stock flywheels cut down
in diameter with the taperlok fitted into it. That way
I would avoid the cost of the flywheel adapter and
spacer. My machining costs for that operation are
still way less than the cost of the adapter. I would
then be able to use the stock pressure plate and disc.
there would be no worries about weather the throwout
bearing would work. and I would have the confidence
that the tranny wouldn't blow up when I done with it,
since the stock plate shouldn't be able to transmit
enough torque to blow the thing up. What I'm talking
about here is a good daily driver not a high
performance hot rod. the car would have plenty of
power but not enough to eat itself. Using this method
I could build a different model everytime and still be
less costly than the universal adapter plate/flywheel
adapter/spacer ring combo, and still turn a profit. I
just don't see that there will all af a sudden be a
huge market for conversions. By the time we get to
that point, we will have done our job as a group
(educating and advocating) and some OEM will be
manufacturing.
end of rant
Thanks for listening
Gadget
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I can see where a "wood" blade will last longer on
aluminium because the
default wood blade has less teeth per inch than the
default metal blade.
Alum is softer and takes a bigger chip and it must
be cleared or the
blade rubs more than cuts.
As for the depth, Look at my adapter plate, the ears
to the frame do
make it quite wide. Cutting a basically round shape
out of a rectangle,
eventually you are at that 45 degree section where
the corner is hitting
and you get to back up and come in at 90 degrees to
remove the corner so
you can continue. This doesn't happen all the time,
the point is more
that it takes time, human, attended time. In other
than hobby projects,
that spells money. The water jet , or laser, or
plasma program and hit
the go button.
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #1: The Tour de Sol Reports Ride Again!
Daylight Savings Time is about to start and that means the Tour de Sol Reports
recommence, this time for the 11th year.
The Tour itself is celebrating it's 17th birthday with a multi-faceted event in
Saratoga and Albany New York, May 13th through the 16th.
As before, I will talk with the teams and report what I find here. I hope you
will enjoy the ride.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #2: The 17th Annual Tour de Sol in Saratoga and Albany, NY
17th Annual Tour de Sol to be held May 13-16, 2005 in Saratoga and Albany, NY
Featuring New Events, Competitions, and Activities Leading the Way to a
Sustainable Energy and Transportation Future
A Green "Car Show" and More
The May 13-16, 2005 event will feature the Tour de Sol Championship and several
new and exciting activities, including a green "car show" at Saratoga's Spring
Auto Show; a Monte Carlo-style rally for hybrid and alternative fuel vehicle
owners; a "VIP Press" day; and a demo-drive. In addition, a 50-vehicle display
and Award Ceremony at New York State's Empire State Plaza in Albany will offer
superb opportunities to test-drive 3 All-NEW Hybrid SUVs, and to meet with the
press and key government and industry representatives.
Events and Activities for the General Public
(Go to www.TourDeSol.org to link to the => items.)
Friday, May 13:
Press-Only event
The press is invited to an exclusive pre-show event that offers ride
and drives in the NEW over 35-mpg Sport Utility Vehicles from Ford,
Toyota and Lexus, a preview of the Tour de Sol Championship
participant vehicles, and much more.
Saturday May 14:
=> The Tour de Sol at Saratoga's Spring Auto Show
=> Monte Carlo-style performance rally
Monday May 16:
=> A culminating event at Albany, NY's Empire State Plaza
Fun, Competitive Events for students, HEV owners, e-bike owners and more!
=> Tour de Sol Championship May 13-16: Students, individuals and
corporations are invited to enter the Tour de Sol Championship and
showcase their efforts to design vehicles that approach zero carbon
emissions and use renewable fuels.
=> E-bike Rally and Competition May 14-16: We invite electric bike owners
and e-bike manufacturers to show off their vehicles, offer
test-drives, and enter a competitive event.
Additional important links:
=> How to enter the Tour de Sol Championship
=> To learn more about green vehicles, please go to our Green Car Club
for a listing of green cars to buy, fun ways of getting around, green
car news, discussion groups, and more!
=> Photo essay of last year's Tour de Sol
=> 2004 Sponsors
=> Volunteer Opportunities: Each year, over one hundred people get
involved in technical testing, marketing, event set-up and more.
=> Follow this link for a glimpse behind the scenes.
=> Exhibitor Opportunities
=> Field Trip Opportunities coming soon. Sign up to take a field trip to
the Tour de Sol.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using a PFC50 on a 30amp 240vac outlet. It sits on the work bench
as there isn't enough space in my truck to mount such a large charger.
I use an industrial cord mounted GFCI in the AC line to the charger.
The battery pack has contactors in both the positive and negative sides
which separate the batteries from all other electronics, except the
DC/DC converter, during charging. This arrangement has worked well for
me, I have never felt even the slightest buzz of leakage from the body
of the truck during charging and the GFCI has never tripped, even in
very wet weather. The down side of the GFCI is it is a relay type. If
there is a power failure, the relay opens and must be manually reset. I
have on occasion found the charger shut down prematurely due to line
power failures. I consider this a small price to pay for the added
safety of the GFCI. If I ever get a 50amp 240vac outlet in the garage,
I'll get a larger GFCI. The company that makes the one I am using also
makes one that will handle 50amps.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:21:48 -0800, Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm using a PFC50 on a 30amp 240vac outlet. It sits on the work bench
> as there isn't enough space in my truck to mount such a large charger.
> I use an industrial cord mounted GFCI in the AC line to the charger.
> The battery pack has contactors in both the positive and negative sides
> which separate the batteries from all other electronics, except the
> DC/DC converter, during charging. This arrangement has worked well for
> me, I have never felt even the slightest buzz of leakage from the body
> of the truck during charging and the GFCI has never tripped, even in
> very wet weather. The down side of the GFCI is it is a relay type. If
> there is a power failure, the relay opens and must be manually reset. I
> have on occasion found the charger shut down prematurely due to line
> power failures. I consider this a small price to pay for the added
> safety of the GFCI. If I ever get a 50amp 240vac outlet in the garage,
> I'll get a larger GFCI. The company that makes the one I am using also
> makes one that will handle 50amps.
To be honest, I would still be inclined to ground the body. The
reason is that you have mains inside the truck (the PFC is not
isolated) and you cannot claim that the live parts are "doubly
insulated" from the exterior, which is what you need to do to
correctly manage without an earth conductor.
Even then, since the truck metalwork is floating, it would probably
count as "extraneous metalwork" if you were talking about any other
type of electrical installation, and you'd have to earth it anyway.
If it's locked in your garage of course, it's your risk. I only want
to point out that it would be a trivial amount of extra work and cost
to add a ground wire to the charging connector, for a whole extra
layer of protection in case something else does go wrong!
Regards
Evan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Jones wrote:
...
22 Valence modules and high
performance DC conversion components would cost over $20K just for
parts, and would only go ~50 miles with ~80 peak HP to the shafts.
...
Considering this would be my first conversion, does anyone have any
advice? (I'm a test engineer and do have some automotive restoration
and bicycle fabrication experience.)
If you want simplicity of wiring and increased safety of operation,
consider integrated AC drives, especially if you plan to spend $20k
for the components.
Internally, AC drives are more complex but it is not a user
concern, just like complexity of a TV or a computer. If it is
easy for the user to install and operate (very few wires to
connect, all made such that wrong connections won't fit),
it is always a preference.
Since some inverters have DC-DC converters built in and units
come pre-wired (contactors, precharge circuit, etc), a user
doesn't have to deal with this. Not to mention shiftless driving,
water cooled motors, regen, and other advantages of an AC setup.
Speaking just as a user with first hand experience installing and
using both types of drives (AC and DC).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #3: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact:
Nancy Hazard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 413-774-6051 x18
Craig Van Battenburg [EMAIL PROTECTED] 508-753-2431
100 mpg Challenge
National Monte Carlo-Style Rally
May 13-14, 2005
Greenfield, MA. - Mar 25, 2005 -
$10,000 in awards will be given to the most fuel efficient vehicles in the
National Monte Carlo-style Rally this May. The prizes will be given to
production hybrid or bio-diesel vehicles that travel a minimum of 150 miles, at
an average of over 55 mpg. A $5,000 prize will be given to most fuel-efficient
vehicle that breaks the 100-mpg barrier. Vehicles can start at any of 15
locations across US and Canada, and must arrive in Saratoga Springs, N.Y. by
noon on May 14, 2005.
"The Northeast Sustainable Energy Association has created this all-new Monte
Carlo-style Rally for people with advanced vehicles that reduce petroleum use
and greenhouse gas emissions" says Nancy Hazard, executive director of NESEA,
organizer of the 2005 Tour de Sol. www.NESEA.org. "Scores of advanced
vehicles will converge at the Tour de Sol finish line at Saratoga's Spring Auto
Show, to celebrate how we can reduce our need for foreign oil today."
"Gas prices, along with our dependence on foreign source oil, are on the rise,"
said Rep. Sherwood Boehlert, Chairman of the House Science Committee.
"Reducing our nation's dependence on foreign oil and promoting the use of
alternative energies will continue to remain top priorities. New York State is
a leader in renewable energy programs and is setting the pace for the rest of
the nation. Events like this are vital to demonstrate the exceptional
technology produced by U.S. engineers, to develop new solutions to solve our
nation's energy crisis."
Self paced Monte Carlo-style Hybrid Rally -
Entrants will travel to Saratoga Springs, NY at their own pace, starting at
any of 15 pre-selected starting sites across the US and Canada. Many entrants
have already registered from as far as Washington State, 2500 miles away.
There will be 9 categories of vehicles, with a minimum rally distance of 150
miles. The Rally finish ceremony and award presentation will be part of
Saratoga's Spring Auto Show on Sat. May 14 at the Saratoga Spa State Park in
Saratoga Springs, NY, at 3 PM. www.TourDeSol.org
TEST of NEW 30 mpg HYBRID SUV's -
A special challenge has been thrown out to FORD, Toyota and Lexus to see which
of the new Sport Utility Hybrids will get the best mileage with their new
SUV's. This is the first event that will demonstrate the efficiency of the 3
NEW Sport Utility Hybrids, which the public will also get to see in Saratoga,
at the finish line.
Self paced Monte Carlo-style Rally -
Monte Carlo-style Rally participants are invited to join at one of our numerous
starting sites around the US and Canada. After they have topped off and their
fuel tank sealed, they will drive to the finish line at Stewarts' Shops in
Saratoga Springs, NY. There, they will a free fill up with gasoline or bio-
diesel, compliments of Stewarts' and Environmental Alternatives - and we will
measure the fuel used. There are nine vehicle categories, and the minimum
rally distance of 150 miles.
After filling up, Rally participants will join the Tour de Sol, the clean
energy and transportation festival and competition, on Saturday, May 14 at
Saratoga's Spring Auto Show. $10,000 in awards will be presented at 3 PM. The
Automotive Career Development Center is taking the lead in organizing the
rally.
Tour de Sol -
From the drawing board...to the show room...to the customer's garage
"The Monte Carlo-style Rally is a perfect addition to the Tour de Sol," says
Nancy Hazard of NESEA. "While the Tour de Sol pushes the envelope so that we
can all have cost competitive, zero carbon, non-toxic, domestically-produced
energy and transportation, the Rally demonstrates what everyone can do today to
help reach that goal."
Now in its 17th year, the Tour de Sol challenges auto companies, students,
entrepreneurs, fuel suppliers, and government to work together, and design,
build, and market vehicles that can meet our transportation needs without
compromising our future. From May 13-16, 2005, the general public is invited
to see what Yankee ingenuity has created. In addition to talking with advanced
vehicle owners participating in the Monte Carlo-style Rally, and students who
have built vehicles to compete in the Tour de Sol Championship, attendees will
have an opportunity to see three new hybrid SUV's, Honda and Toyota's hybrid
sedans, electric bikes and scooters, and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles. After
participating in Saratoga's Spring Auto Show, which is organized by the
Saratoga Auto Museum. On Monday, May 16, the Tour de Sol will parade to Albany
for a free display on Albany's Empire State Plaza.
The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority (NYSERDA), and the
Center for Technology Commercialization are Premier sponsors of the Tour de Sol
and Monte Carlo-style Rally. Supporting Sponsors include the New York Power
Authority, the U.S. Department of Energy, Toyota, the New York State Department
of Environmental Conservation, Honda, and the Federal Highway Administration.
The Tour de Sol is organized by the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
(NESEA), the nation's leading regional education and advocacy association that
aims to accelerate the deployment and use of renewable energy, and energy
efficiency. NESEA produces major sustainable energy events that inspire and
motivate large numbers of people to get involved and make a difference.
For more information on the Tour de Sol and Monte Carlo-style Rally
registration, go to
www.TourdeSol.org
or call 413-774-6051.
Monte Carlo Vehicle Categories
1- Toyota Prius Classic ('01-'03)
2- Toyota Prius ('04-'05)
3- Honda Insight
4- Honda Civic Hybrid
5- Honda Accord Hybrid
6- Hybrid SUV - Ford Hybrid Escape, Toyota Highlander Hybrid, Lexus 400 Hybrid
7- Custom Built hybrids (modified or built from scratch)
8- Modified Factory Hybrids, including plug-in factory hybrids
9- Bio-diesel, and Clean diesel vehicles
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks!
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Anybody know a good supplier for small (25-75lb) motor/generators?
Sure, get a Etek PM motor. Costs about $425 new, produces up to 15 hp
peak, 7hp continuous, and weighs a scant 21.5 lbs (and it's high
efficiency too)
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=527&product_id=3516
Evparts also has a four quadrant regen controller on clearance. You only
need two quadrants, since you don't need to run the motor in reverse, and
it's a little under-powered for the Etek. On the other hand, under
powered means you won't accidentally melt the motor and it's only $265.
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=865&product_id=1103
Motor is rated for upto 48V (a fairly safe voltage) and the controller is
rated for 36V.
At 36V, you'll only get about 3-5 hp continuous, but then a small car only
needs about 10 hp to maintain 50 mph, on flat ground with no wind.
The motor is a good fit for your requirements, the controller is possibly
to small, but a good price.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Toshiba has developed a Lithium-Ion battery capable of being charged
> to 80 per cent of its full capacity in under 60 seconds. Filling it up
> takes just "a few more minutes", the company boasted today.
Yeah, yeah, yeah... Show me the battery. I'll believe it when someone
outside Toshiba buys one, tests it, and publishes independent results.
Until then, it's interesting, but vaporware.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
If you are using GFCI then its safety will work without the frame
ground. GFCI measures the difference between the hot and neutral wire
(or between the 2 hots, or between the two hots and neutral for 240vac
US versions.) If the difference between power in and power out (from the
wires that are supposed to be carrying it) is greater than 5ma (+/-1ma)
it will trip. With a frame ground that results in NO shock (its shorted
to ground.) Without a frame ground you can get a bite, it can be very
briefly above the "safe" level, but if so it will trip the GFCI.
This is all correct but too technical to be accepted by non-technical
users.
When my wife saw the car plugged in and I offered similar explanation,
she told me I speak Greek:
What is Frame?
What is mA?
What is Hot?
Don't lecture me about all this stuff, I won't comprehend as you do.
Just tell me if our kids *can possibly* ever get shocked, period?
I would be lying saying not a chance with non-isolated charger,
so I said it is unlikely but >0% chance.
So she asked to get rid of this thing (a charger) or get rid
of this car then. And, you know what? In her shoes she's right.
The more technical you get trying to explain and convince non-technical
people, the more frightened they get, because they must trust you.
So I use isolated BRUSA charger in ACRX (have PFC too in *lockable*
garage). And sleep better not only because it is safer, but also
because family PR are settled favorably, no arguing about EV safety.
If you consider a charger for others, it must not only be safe,
it must also provide that perception to a user to sell well.
If you will ever expose your EV to others while charging
and protection fails to prevent even small bite to a casual
by passer or a kid, you potentially set yourself at least for
a big and expensive legal trouble, not to mention relationships.
I've
been known to lift my chargers ground to save the GFCI *In my own closed
garage!* (NOT in public.)
I have many hazardous stuff in my garage, like I don't always have
time to close a grease pit so my kid can fall in.
As you sooner or later *can* forget to unplug your EV before
talking off (wee hear such reports now and then), you can forget
to lock your garage.
You don't have to be paranoid, else nothing ever can be done,
but gauge the risk by real potential impact to yoy AND others,
not by convenient for you criteria. No one is perfect, but
electrons (and if that's not enough, lawyers too) don't care.
This is not aimed specifically to John, just thinking out loud.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:11 PM 3/28/05 -0600, you wrote:
Thanks for the input. I am thinking now that I am going to choose my car
by something I like well rather than just whether a kit is already made
for it.
You don't need to limit yourself to patterns that are already
available. We are continually designing new patterns on customer
request. We do not charge anything for the design, work (unless you are
doing something REALLY off the wall) as this is how we expand our pattern
library. We make the design from your transmission. If you are buying a
complete kit from us, we also pay the shipping costs for the transmission,
so there is zero additional cost to you.
Better to do the plans myself and have them made up than settle for
some rustbucket VW Rabbit, etc.
We would never recommend that anyone convert a rustbucket ANYTHING. Start
with a sound chassis. The alternative isn't worth the expense and pain.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Show me the battery. I'll believe it when someone
> outside Toshiba buys one, tests it, and publishes independent
results.
Not only that, but Toshiba plans to have an automotive battery by
2006? And their prototype is 600mAh? Oh yes, and it doesn't really
like being as warm as 45C.
Who are they kidding?
> Until then, it's interesting, but vaporware.
It is interesting in the sense that it is becoming clear that
charge rates will go up, and that people working on chargers need
to plan for that future and not be all concerned about .3C
charge rates on certain lithium chemistries....
It is interesting in the sense that it is clear that battery
chemistries continue to advance, despite all the concentration
on fuel-cells
It is not interesting in the sense of "maybe I should put off my
plans to build an EV for another year".
imho,
-Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> $10,000 in awards will be given to the most fuel efficient vehicles
> in the National Monte Carlo-style Rally this May. The prizes will
> be given to production hybrid or bio-diesel vehicles that travel
> a minimum of 150 miles, at an average of over 55 mpg. A $5,000 prize
> will be given to most fuel-efficient vehicle that breaks the 100-mpg
> barrier.
So, EVs are no longer even being considered as "fuel efficient
vehicles"? Not eligible for any prizes, no categories for them? Does
that make the TdS off-topic for the EV list?
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
