EV Digest 4266
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Depth of Discharge
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: How many Wh does your vehicle average?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Has Anybody Seen My Grin?
by michael bearden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Better Meter, was Meter or Charge?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Cheap DC/DC converters 600W Vicor Mega Mod $45
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Better Meter, was Meter or Charge?
by Richard Marcus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: pusher to electric
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Cheap DC/DC converters 600W Vicor Mega Mod $45
by Paul Wallace <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Niche market for high performance EV's?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) lunchtime fun (Gadget's conversion)
by Gravity Girl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Toshiba's New Rechargeable Lithium-Ion Battery Recharges in Only
One Minute
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Fort Pierce Fl. 7th EV rally
by "Shawn Waggoner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) 36V Inverters Re: pusher to electric
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: pusher to electric
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Battery Doctors?
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) "Wow"
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: adaptors: Felton, CA physical assistance required
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: adaptors: Felton, CA physical assistance required
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Good brush info for FAQ
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: adaptors: Felton, CA physical assistance required
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: article: The Vanadium Battery: The Ultimate Energy Storage Solution
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) EV transport
by "Charles Whalen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: EV transport
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: EV transport
by Marc Geller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
While you're fixing your e-meter, you can measure power consumption
(thus determine Ah consumed since you know the voltage) by SIADIS.
It will have running Wh meter right on the screen (of laptop) as you
drive. IF you know how many Wh your fully charged pack possess, you can
tell SOC at any time by seeing how many Wh have been consumed.
Also it is useful to turn on slow trace to record battery power and
motor power vs. time. So you can determine the most economical
gear to drive on at certain speed, efficiency (motor power and
battery power are both recorded) and many other cool things.
If you care, the data is also savable in ASCII in tab delimited
format, so are exportable to excel for massaging later.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
p.s. If you get tired of figuring out how to make link-10 e-meter work
right or it blows again, consider BRUSA Ah meter as reliable
alternative. No prescalers, no connecting/disconnecting sequences, in
fact no power supply connection needed at all - it draws power directly
from the pack voltage being measured. (of course, display is isolated
by on-the-shunt DC-DC). You only need +12V housepower if you want
backlit.
Integrates in the dash really well:
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/cnt-closed.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/ac_honda/images/cnt-ready.jpg
Consider this as a plug, but I'm just speaking as a happy customer
myself.
Don Cameron wrote:
With my EMeter not working, plus not knowing my vehicle and battery energy
efficiency, I have no idea as a drive what the depth of discharge my battery
is running. The manufacturer states with an open circuit voltage test if
the battery is at 12.85V (Gel Cell) the battery is 100% full, and at 12.35V
the battery is 50% full. However it says I have to wait 24 hours before
reading the voltage.
Does anyone have a more immediate way of measuring the state of charge?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sims are fun! You can learn alot, too. Comments interspersed:
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This doesn't attempt to calculate range based on how hard
> you accelerate, no. Range @ whatever speed is constant load.
I'm doing my 3rd gen simulation now. In my 2nd gen sim, I was able to
vary current vs. time to simulate starting and stopping (even had
regen). It was alot of trouble to do that to estimate range, and
would usually wind up being close to the range at steady highway
speed anyway. It was a feature that took a fair amount of effort to
implement that I wound up not using much! It was instructional,
though, to see regen didn't add as much range as you might expect.
> What acceleration I am calculating is acceleration from
> 0-60, 0-100, 1/8 mile, 1/4 mile, and 60 foot time. Then top
> speed. It will based these off the motor profile generated
> from the max motor volts and max motor amps input, along
> with your peak shift points and all the inputs for your
> car's weight, drag, rolling resistance, tire size, gear
> ratios, and environmental conditions. The calculator will
> calculate acceleration for a maximum of 200 seconds, so it
> will be able to accomodate slug EVs.
If it's easy, please add accelerating for 2 miles, and then using the
time for the last mile to calculate an average speed for the flying
mile. This would simulate land speed racing.
You also may want to add efficiency as a function of rpm for the
motor. Losing 5 or 10% at high or low rpm may not sound like much,
but can slow the 1/4 mile time.
> I may even make a virtual racer against IC cars made in
> Java, where you will see two dots on the screen moving,
> representing two cars and a drag strip, one a selected gas
> car and another an EV with given parameters. That's if I
> ever make this a Java program.
Sounds neat, would love to see it.
Some unsolicited things I found out in writing my sims:
Check acceleration, and limit to about the max the tires can do (~0.7
g for RWD, ~0.5 for FWD, ~1 g for a setup car with drag tires). If
you use max current and max amps at low speed you might find the car
"accelerating" at several g's! If you wanted to get really fancy
here, take into account the cg, and include a differential equation
for weight transfer onto (RWD) or off of (FWD) the drive wheels, and
use that for a dynamic max g the car can pull.
I found it easier to deal with power and speed rather than torques. I
thought it easier to deal with top speed in each gear rather than
tranny ratios, rear end ratios, and tire size.
If you want to be really realistic, you could have the car slow a bit
with each shift.
Series motors often need to be shifted before max rpm -- so your sim
needs to look at the current gear and the next gear, and shift when
there is more wheel torque in the next gear (or max rpm hit).
Mine only did this manually, it would be fun to automate: You waste a
bit of time shifting, and the constant power mode of electric motors
means it doesn't matter as much which gear you are in (with some
caveats there). Anyway, you might find you can do the 1/4 fastest
going 2-3-4, or 2-4, or just 3. It would be neat to have a computer
program try all the combos of gears and predict which is the fastest
shifting pattern.
I think ideally a straight line racing sim would have the dv/dt and
dx/dt equations, as well as equations for weight transfer (for max
accel and max regen, and for aero downforce or lift), battery power
sag with current and time, and battery capacity remaining. Has anyone
seen this as five equations written as coupled differential
equations?
My sims helped me shop for a conversion car (smaller, lighter, more
aero, surprise surprise). I was also surprised to learn AWD wasn't
much advantage for acceleration (helps on the launch and on slippery
surfaces, the extra weight actually hurts once you get going). The
sim also predicts I would barely make it to work and back on
Orbitals, so I'll need to either charge at work or get more exotic
batteries.
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Personals - Better first dates. More second dates.
http://personals.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't even DRIVEN it yet...I am starting out at 204v (17 Optimas)
taking it easy, then adding the next 3 to make it 240.
Answers to your questions will be coming in the next year...but not in
any hurry. I just want to be driving electric again!
Michael B.
John Westlund wrote:
michael bearden wrote:
I am probably jumping the gun here... but I am SO close
to regaining
that EV Grin.....that I had to send this off.
Brian Hall and I have been re-configuring and
"re-packing"(with my
Optimas from WATTABMR) his oh-so-fine customized Porsche
(see EV Album)
in my shop, and we are within hours of completing it.
I
am going to be
EV Grinning again in a big way!
Out of curiousity, how fast is that Porsche? What is its
0-60 time approxamately? Top speed? Ever run it in the 1/4
mile, and if not any estimations?
That's one very clean conversion, and I hope to see mine
have that same cleanliness, and not that rolling science
project look so many others have.
30-50 miles range?
What's it's 60 MPH cruising range to 100% DoD?
Looks like an awesome conversion to be tooling around in.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> The patent for this meter described using a single 2v low-amphour cell,
> with a voltage divider to drive it to a percentage of the main EV pack,
> and measuring the current it took in/out of this little cell to estimate
> the big battery's current in/out. But the actual meter I had "cheaped
> out" and used an electrolytic capacitor to simulate a lead-acid cell.
> This is a rather poor substitute, so the actual accuracy was much
> poorer. PS: If anyone wants to use this method, the patent has long
> since expired.
Hmm, sounds like a job for a Cyclon single cell.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe you are mistaken.
These part number tracks with a COMPLETE DC-DC converter according to
Vicor's website.
> These DC/dc are booster modules and need a regular module to turn in and
> regulate correctly.
> Brian D.Hall
>
>
>
>
>>> That's odd. Halted has them listed as "New" and I've never known them
>>> to
>>> sell defective parts without stating that they're defective.
>>>
>>>
>>>> I tested a few of these from Halted. They were all
>>>> bad. The Sparrow uses a similar model of Vicor. I
>>>> first thought I had found a source. It was too good
>>>> to be true though.
>>>>
>>>> Ed Ang
>>>>
>>>> --- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>>> I kow there are a few folks out there looking for
>>>>> affordable DC-DC
>>>>> converters. While searching for something else, I
>>>>> came across this:
>>>>>
>>>>
> http://www.halted.com/ccp11977-dc-dc-converter-150v-15v-600watt-vi-n52-em-19678.htm
>>>>>
>>>>> It's a Vicor Mega Mod:
>>>>> Input 100V-200V (150V nominal) brown out at 85V
>>>>> Output 15V +-10% @ 40 Amps
>>>>>
>>>>> I believe some other folks ahve used these in EVs,
>>>>> so perhaps they can
>>>>> comment on suitability, but at only $45 seems like
>>>>> too good of a deal to
>>>>> pass up (I ordered one).
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>
> Brian D. Hall
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Mike. It is a 72v pack. It reads 'bout right
on the charger's volt meter. I will double check on
the digital hand voltmeter though I expect it will be
72. The batteries are new so I would hope it would
hold a charge! If it is just a voltmeter not a "state
of charge" meter and it is inaccurate then the wrong
one might explain it. Could you tell me how I check
if it is the right meter (and if it is right how I
check if it is miscalibrated)?
I drove 25miles yesterday on the charge and I will
drive about 30 today by the time I am home so it will
be a good chance to start some readings.
In response to Lee:
"Boiled", i.e. got very hot? I doubt it; more likely
they gassed, like
an open bottle of Pepsi. A small amount of this is
normal at the end of
a charge cycle.
-ear near the battery it sure sounded like actual
boiling...but I could be wrong.
> ... emitted a noxious odor, and an alarm sounded.
What did it smell like? Rotten eggs (sulfur dioxide)
is bad; it means battery trouble. A slight acidic
metallic "tang" kind of like lemon or
grapefruit juice is normal -- that's just trace
amounts of sulfuric
acid being "fizzed" out by the gassing.
-not strong enough for rotten eggs. Lets call it a
strong acidy tang.
What kind of alarm did it set off? Hydrogen gas from
normal charging
can
trigger a propane (or other hydrocarbon) detector, but
it won't usually
set off a CO (carbon monoxide) detector.
-I don't know what alarm it was. A beep like a home
smoke detector (but not near as loud). It beeped two
or three times single beeps over a couple hours and
then suddenly sounded the constant beeping alarm.
> I unplugged it. The meter read 80%. This morning it
read 40%.
This sounds a lot like old batteries and a voltmeter
pretending to be a
state of charge meter. A true state of charge meter
would have hardly
moved unless there were some load on the battery.
They are new batteries.
Do you have a good voltmeter and ammeter? Measure the
charging voltage
and current at several times during a charge cycle
(like, once per
hour), and tell us what the numbers are. From them we
can get an idea
what's going on.
I will take notes from the dash ammeter (which appears
accurate) and readings from my digital voltmeter
during the charge -- then get back to you with number
tomorrow. THANKS!
Richard
Date: Wed, 06 Apr 2005 22:30:02 -0500
To:[email protected]
From:"Mike Chancey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Meter or Charge?
Plain Text Attachment [ Download File | Save to Yahoo!
Briefcase ]
Have you checked to see if the state of charge meter
is the correct one
for
the pack voltage? For example, if it is speced for
120 Volts and
installed
in a 96 Volt EV, it will never read 100%. It is just
an expanded scale
voltmeter, it doesn't "know" better.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, you could add another 12V battery just for accesories and use a 48V
inverter (36V + extra 12V), these are fairly common amoung the alt-energy
folks.
> Sure. No reason why not.
>
> I've taken to dragging around an old APC Backups 600 in my tractor to
> handle the little odd power jobs. Wish I could find one that would take
> 36 volt input.
>
> Chris
>
> James A. Eckman wrote:
>> Could someone tell me if it would be possible/reasonable to use this
>> motor and an inverter to build a cordless mower?
>> Jim
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As I read the data sheet, these modules will only give 200W of output
for voltages above 5vdc. You can get the entire 600W for voltages less
than 5vdc out. To build a 600W DC/DC you would need 3 of the modules.
Still a good price and they will load share per the app notes. You will
also need to add a heatsink with about 1" fins across the mounting
surface I think, based on the power out to heatsink graphs for the J200
modules that are inside the Megamod. I base this on the power output in
free air with different Vicor heatsink models.
Paul Wallace
'91 Chevy S-10 full of SAFT nicads
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Since as far as economy type cars go and the price of the gas vehicle
setting the price for the electric..
How about sports cars? Corvettes, Mustangs, Camaros? The prices for
those are all over the place.
Get one cheap, convert it, sell it for whats tied up in it. Is there
a market? These cars would have to run 13's at a minimum in the 1/4
mile. 12's would be most desirable.
What about a market for full size truck conversions? Ford and Chevy
trucks, etc. 13" WarP, Zilla, and fill the bed with AGM's. Or fill
it half or 3/4 full.. A cover could be built, or a plastic "bed
liner" could be modified in such a way that all the bed space could
still be used... only with half the depth as before..
Let me know because I really want to start converting, but I need to
be able to recoup my investment to be able to do this.
The main selling points would be performance and less(or no?) maintenance.
My parents 1998 Jeep with an in line 6 currently uses $80/week in
fuel. That's over $4,000 a year in fuel. If a conversion costs
$8,000, it would pay for itself in __ years. Yes, a pack replacement
is __ but that same amount of years in fuel is ___ .
Maybe $3/gal fuel this summer might change things.. $120 a week for
fuel is over $6,000 a year... Conversions are going to start looking
really good from a financial standpoint..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just swung by Rev. Gadget's shop during lunch to have a peek at his
new conversion. I must say, it certainly is simple and elegant! His
regen setup probably wouldn't fit into too small of an engine
compartment, since the generator is in-line with the motor, but he has
plenty of space in there. I can't wait to see it driving around Culver
City, and it sure makes me want to try my own conversion soon.
-Cristin
--
La Bola Ocho Magica dice: SI
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We've already discussed these cells on the list,
you can follow the thread from here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ev-list-archive/message/36739
One last thing, I realized just rescently, and it's astounding!
As small as these cells may seem, and they are small, 0.6Ah and
probably no more than 20 or 30 grams each. It seemd odd that
in the press release they mentioned EV's and Hybrids as applications.
Well, It turns out that these cells are actually perfect for hybrids.
Each cell can dish out 100C, or 60 Amps, just 20 Amps shy of the
"Massive" 6Ah NiMH cells in my Insight. So, as unbelievable as it
is, a Tiny Little 50 cell pack of these new cells would deliver
10kW (180v*60A) of power from a 3.3lbs package! Of course it would
only have one tenth of the 1kWh NiMH pack's capacity, or 0.108kWh.
I mean WOW. Even if you scale it up to match the capacity, it's still
only 33lbs versus 90lbs, and it would then deliver 100kW of power!!
But, alas, it's still only a lab experiment, so I've been limiting
my discussion here on this list, maybe we can speculate more here:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/gridable-hybrids/message/1432
Even if/when they make it into production they only deliver half the
power and last half as long they are still several times better than
the next best Li-ion cells, not to mention NiMH, NiCD, PbA, and HFC's.
http://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/News/Press/200412/04-060E/
L8r
Ryan
Joseph Vaughn-Perling wrote:
http://i-newswire.com/pr12515.html
Anyone seen/used/know anything more about this?
"We are continually faced with a series of great opportunities brilliantly
disguised as insoluble problems."
-- John W. Gardner
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Everyone,
The Florida EAA will be having its next meeting at Steve's Rally in Ft.
Pierce. The rally is from 11Am to 4PM and the meeting will be at 1PM. We
will be bringing some additional cars / cycles to help make the Rally even
better. Hope some people can come out and join in on the fun!
--
Shawn M. Waggoner
Florida Electric Auto Assoc.
http://www.floridaeaa.org
Custom Honda Electric Motorcycle 72V
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of STEVE CLUNN
Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 8:16 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fort Pierce Fl. 7th EV rally
http://www.grassrootsev.com/flyer.htm
I'll be having My EV rally on Saterday april 30 for 11am to 4pm , all are
welcome, plenty of room for EV's .
steve clunn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I knew I'd seen this somewhere:
http://www.kansaswindpower.net/Bargains.htm
Look for the 1332 inverter. It's a big'un, 1100 watts sinewave, and
priced accordingly at almost $900. It'll take either 32V or 36V.
> Sure. No reason why not.
>
> I've taken to dragging around an old APC Backups 600 in my tractor to
> handle the little odd power jobs. Wish I could find one that would take
> 36 volt input.
>
> Chris
>
> James A. Eckman wrote:
>> Could someone tell me if it would be possible/reasonable to use this
>> motor and an inverter to build a cordless mower?
>> Jim
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is probably a better motor for a cordless mower:
http://www.kansaswindpower.net/motors.htm
it's a 3/4 hp 36V DC motor, it's a bit more expensive ($215), but then
again you won't have to buy an inverter.
At a guess it probably draws about 20-25 amps, which means that you can
use smaller batteries (than the surplus center motor) or mow for longer.
> Seen this just the other day.
> http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005040510004723&item=10-1938&catname
>
> _________
> Andre' B.
>
> At 08:53 AM 4/5/2005, you wrote:
>>We have talked on the list before about converting a standard push mower
>>to electric. Well I now have five (5) dead old gassers, Ghosts of
>>yardwork past, and would like to convert at least one of the to electric
>>for basic edging and the like.
>>
>>I can't seem to find my link I had to several pages where people have
>>done this. Anyone out there got a pointer for me?
>>
>>James
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's a company that claims that they can successfully refurbish
lead-acid batteries.
I can't tell you anything about them or their claims, but I thought list
members might like to check out their site:
http://www.batterydoctors.com/index.html
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Its a nice night in Austin, 70's with a light breeze: perfect night to
pull off the T-Tops and get some ice cream.
The syncros on the MR2 tranny are shot, and the clutch still won't
completely release. Normally I drive with the 5speed transmission
locked in 3rd and never shift.
A few hours after arriving home the 15 Optima group 31's were finishing
up a charge and were nice and warm. I got playing around, dropping into
second for a nice launch out of the neighborhood.
Pulled up to the traffic light on our 45mph main drag. The young driver
next to me was in a light gray BMW roadster with the top down. He looks
over and says, "Nice car, I love the old MR2's".
"This one's electric."
"Neat, how fast does it go?"
In a rather fortuitous bit of timing the light turned green as he
finished his question. The pedal hit the floor and the MR2 took off.
Probably one of my best launches ever, with a solid 850amps from the
pack. BMW takes a few seconds to recover. I hear his tires screech
just as I am clearing the intersection. I hit the speed limit and the
motor rev limit 2 seconds later and start cruising. A few seconds later
the BMW draws alongside and mouths just one word. .. "Wow"
One of these days I really have to fix the transmission.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's the problem I'm fighting. I've been waiting a while, and I
finally get to the top of the queue only to find that my tranny doesn't
*really* match their specs. Now I've either got to clean and ship the
whole thing, plus extras, or find some other way to make my adapter.
Anybody near ElectroAutomotive? Could I convince you to pull an '88
Honda Civic WAGON AWD tranny and schlep it over to them? Totally
serious here. Willing to pay a small fee. Help!
Jude
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
The problem is if they don't make one for the car your doing , I was
ready to buy one for my last conversion but a pinto tranny was not on
any of the builders list.
>
Speaking of time - just make sure you give them 2 months to finish
it. I'm pretty sure they are usually backed up.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jude Anthony wrote:
> Anybody near ElectroAutomotive? Could I convince you to pull an '88
> Honda Civic WAGON AWD tranny and schlep it over to them? Totally
> serious here. Willing to pay a small fee. Help!
Maybe Electro Automotive could just pick one up from a local salvage yard?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.reliance.com/prodserv/motgen/c7090/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For CivicWithACord, we got one from AllTrans in
Portland. THey pride themselves on being the Col.
Sanders of Honda TRannies.
I think I paid $25 + S&H.
--- Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That's the problem I'm fighting. I've been waiting
> a while, and I
> finally get to the top of the queue only to find
> that my tranny doesn't
> *really* match their specs. Now I've either got to
> clean and ship the
> whole thing, plus extras, or find some other way to
> make my adapter.
>
> Anybody near ElectroAutomotive? Could I convince
> you to pull an '88
> Honda Civic WAGON AWD tranny and schlep it over to
> them? Totally
> serious here. Willing to pay a small fee. Help!
>
> Jude
>
>
> STEVE CLUNN wrote:
>
> > The problem is if they don't make one for the car
> your doing , I was
> > ready to buy one for my last conversion but a
> pinto tranny was not on
> > any of the builders list.
> >
> > >
> >
> >> Speaking of time - just make sure you give them 2
> months to finish
> >> it. I'm pretty sure they are usually backed up.
> >
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The problem for me has always been that "membrane". What could it be
made of? We could use the same material for any other liquid
electrolyte reaction, perhaps with some more reactive and cheaper
material, such as Boron.
Then you'd have a car that essentially ran on soap. Talk about cleaning
up the environment! (It's a pun; I'm aware of the environmental
problems caused by excessive oxidant pollution.)
Jude
Paul Wujek wrote:
Jeff Shanab wrote:
At last check 1 problem with that battery technology was dismal
paower and energy density making it really large and heavy for mobile
use. The upside being you could exchange eletrolyte in min to
recharge at a station.
Another was loss of capacity through the membrane which was
exacerbated at higher loads and gave a high self discharge if
operating at low currents., Kinda like a transistor Off and ON are
ok, put 1/10 on is an energy hog
**
Have they solved those 2 problem area's
I don't really know, from time to time I like to send in articles that
I think may be of interest.
There is a page with some technical information:
http://www.vrbpower.com/vrb_power.html
Note to Peter VanDerwal:
you are right the article didn't say 1:1 energy in/out. that was my
interpretation of what I thought was said, the table on the page above
says 98% efficiency in/out.
For power density comparison you might look at the Lead Acid
Comparison.pdf:
http://www.vrbpower.com/pdfs/VRB-ESS%20%20%20Lead%20Acid%20Comparison.pdf
They claim 166 Wh/kg versus 370 Wh/kg for Lead Acid, so yes, this
appears to be fairly low power, but at the same time they also claim
up to 13,000 charge/discharge cycles, which is interesting, if nothing
else.
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I bought a RAV4-EV today from an owner in northern California who was
selling it. Can anyone recommend a good, reliable vehicle transport company
which would be able to transport my RAV4-EV from northern California to
South Florida?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
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Charles Whalen wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a good, reliable vehicle transport company
> which would be able to transport my RAV4-EV from northern California to
> South Florida?
This place: http://www.stewarttransport.com/
Is mentioned here: http://www.factoryfive.com/table/company/priceorder.html
Another place you might ask about what's a good vehicle transport
company is this board:
http://www.corral.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=64
You should get a good response there. I've found that place to be
helpful before.
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Charles,
I've posted your request to the RAV4 EV list ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
You'll want to subscribe if you haven't already.
Marc
On Apr 8, 2005, at 6:35 PM, Charles Whalen wrote:
I bought a RAV4-EV today from an owner in northern California who was
selling it. Can anyone recommend a good, reliable vehicle transport
company
which would be able to transport my RAV4-EV from northern California to
South Florida?
Thanks,
Charles Whalen
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