EV Digest 4288
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) el camino
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Another Newbie Joins the Ranks
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Dallias 1 wire temp sensors
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Wire Gauge questions. Eastern emergency personel training
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: warp 9 resistance
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) TdS Report #5: Competition Entrants
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) TdS Report #6: E-Bike & NEV Competition at the 2005 Tour de Sol (Entrants)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Diahartsu Charade Meltdown-Lee Hart to comment please
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Need cheep 12V thermostat circuit
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: el camino
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Re: New IMPROVED PowerCheqs
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Vas: Re: Wire Gauge questions
by "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: DMM as a Meter(w/ onboard PC); LEDs; Emissions Testing
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Cheep Thermo circuit Found!!
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Another Cheep thermo circuit found!
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: el camino
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: el camino
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: el camino
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Need cheep 12V thermostat circuit
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cheep Thermo circuit Found!!
by Jon Glauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Cheep Thermo circuit Found!!
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
hi all,
did someone on this list do an el camino conversion...
who
when
where
how does it work?
thanks
keith
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David Roden wrote:
> the acceleration will be adequate unless you drive on Los
> Angeles expressways in rush hour.
Obviously David hasn't lived here in the last 30 years or so. I think LA
freeway traffic stopped moving freely about the time "Mannix" left the air.
IIRC, LA freeway median speed is now 25mph, but don't count on going that
fast during rush hour.
Upside? EV range increases dramatically the slower you go:^O
MarvyMarv
Culver City
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is also another way to monitor temperatures They are called 1-wire
sensors from Dallas Semi,
http://www.maxim-ic.com/quick_view2.cfm/qv_pk/2815/ln/en.
They can be strung together on one telephone wire circuit, here is an example
http://www.ibuttonlink.com/Sensors.htm scroll down to the Snaku.
So basically a single normal 4 wire telephone cable with a RJ-11 connector at
the end can carry data for up to 255 batteries or 255 sensors (combination of
temp and V)
Here is how to build a string yourself
http://www.digitemp.com/building.shtml
They need to then be connected to a Link45
http://www.digitemp.com/products.shtml has the Links and also preassembled
variations on sensors. (Lee and other elec savvy people - note that at the top
of this page is a link to PC board files so that the circuit can be integrated
into another board if needed.)This is just to give an idea of what the
configurations can be since the owner of the site no longer manufactures any of
the boards or assembles the sensors. But the link is available at
http://www.ibuttonlink.com/
Then the Link45 needs to be connected to a computer via a serial cable, but I
hear someone is coming out with a USB connector.
There is free software at http://www.digitemp.com/software.shtml, both Linux
and Windows based. And there is a lot more software available to read the data.
http://www.brianlane.com is one source, I have more if anybody wants some other
links
If somebody can set up a program for a basic stamp then the PC can be bypassed
and a LCD screen can be used, which opens up lots of possibilities for us...
Another thing is that Dallas makes a voltage sensor for NiCad and NiMH
http://www.maxim-ic.com/solutions/battery_management/index.mvp, this is for
cell phones, but I would think that it could easily be modified for a battery
pack management system. By the way Dallas http://www.maxim-ic.com/1-Wire.cfm
will give out free samples of their sensors, you just have to register.
Here is a link to a site that uses the temp sensors to monitor the radiant
heating system in his house.
http://ourcoolhouse.com/monitor/monitor.htm very neat...
So all of this info gathering system could be very easily integrated into
either a voltage/ temperature monitoring system or maybe even a battery
management system, but how to do it is a little beyond my abilities. But I keep
hacking away at it so maybe one day... anybody want to help?
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I guess things are different out here on the left
> coast.
> I had made the assumtion that this training was universal in
> U.S. fire departments, and it might be, once an area
> has enough Hybrids/EV's to warrant it.
A month ago I ran into a friend of mine who is with a local (East Coast)
volunteer fire company.
He had just had training for hybrids that day. There are a fair number of Prii
around but not that
many. Next time I see him I'll get the lowdown on what the training entailed.
And I believe they
trained local, not at a special facility.
Dave (finally got the engine out of my donor vehicle) Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> How much resistance (at temp and RPM) does the 9" motors have.
I don't have the numbers handy, but it's a few milliohms (0.003 ohms)
for the field, and about twice that for the armature.
> If I am building a contactor controller and apply 300 volts or 156
> volts, obviously a different amount of current will flow initially,
> rpm will create back EMF from there.
Correct. To a first approximation, a series motor behaves electrically
like a big resistor. Its resistance value depends on rpm. Very
approximately, for the ADC 9" it is:
R = 0.01 + (7x10^-5 x rpm) ohms
>From this, you can see that the resistance at 0 rpm is stupefyingly low;
essentially a short circuit. You don't dare switch it directly across a
high voltage pack! A contactor controller requires a starting resistor
to limit the current to something reasonable.
> Can I just take an ohm meter to the cold motor and use that
> resistance for my inrush calculations?
Yes... if you happen to have a meter that can measure thousandths of an
ohm. Most digital meters are worthless below 1 ohm.
But you can measure a motor's DC resistance with an ordinary multimeter.
Connect the motor to a high current DC source; like a battery charger.
Measure the current (perhaps with the charger's ammeter), and the
voltage drop across the motor with your multimeter.
It is important to touch the multimeter's lead to the actual motor
terminal -- NOT to the alligator clipleads or whatever is used to
connect the current source to these terminals.
The motor should not be turning at the time. Either apply a low enough
current so it won't run, or hold its shaft so it won't move.
The winding's resistance R = Voltage across it / Current thru it. For
example, your battery charger reads 15 amps, and your voltmeter reads
0.050 volts. Then the motor winding resistance R = 0.05v / 15a = 0.0033
ohms = 3.3 milliohms.
This method works for any low-resistance device; motor, transformer,
connector, etc.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #5: Competition Entrants
The demonstration vehicles and entrants to the Sustainable Energy and
Transportation Festival and Competition of the 2005 Tour de Sol have been
announced. (See the E-Bike and Neighborhood EVs in the next TdS Report.)
The vehicles are entered in Categories, and Divisions within each Category.
Abbreviations:
B20 Biodiesel 20 (20% biodiesel, 80% petroleum diesel)
B100 Biodiesel 100 (100% biodiesel)
CNG Compressed Natural Gas
HEV Hybrid Electric Vehicle
HS High School
ICE Internal Combustion Engine
LiIon Lithium Ion
NMH Nickel Metal Hydride
PbA Lead Acid,
RFG Reformulated Gasoline
Veh# Vehicle Number
CATEGORY: HYBRID & ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES
Veh# Participant-Team Name
Year/Make/Model Propulsion System & Fuel
Vehicle Name State
PRODUCTION DIVISION: light duty vehicles
Demo American Honda Motor Company
2004 Honda Civic Hybrid HEV: Gasoline + Battery
2004 Civic Hybrid California
Demo American Honda Motor Company
2003 Insight HEV: Gasoline + Battery
2003 Insight California
Demo American Honda Motor Company
2005 Hybrid Accord HEV: Gasoline + Battery
2005 Hybrid Accord California
Demo American Honda Motor Company
2004 Civic GX ICE: Natural Gas (CNG)
2004 Civic GX California
Demo American Honda Motor Company
FCX Hydrogen Fuel Cell
FCX California
10 ITAQ (Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute)
2005 SMART ICE: Biodiesel (B20)
Bio SMART Quebec, Canada
70 S&S AutoSport
2001 Toyota Prius HEV: Gasoline (RFG) + Panasonic NMH
S&S AutoSport Prius Oklahoma
Demo Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A.
2005 Highlander HEV: Gasoline + Panasonic NMH
2005 Highlander California
Demo Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A.
2005 Lexus RX 400h HEV: Gasoline + Panasonic NMH
2005 Lexus RX 400h California
12 Vogelbilt
2004 Ford F250 diesel pick-up ICE: Biodiesel (B100)
Vogelbilt Vehicle New York
INDEPENDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
36 Valence Technology, Inc
2004 Toyota Prius HEV: Gasoline + Valence LiIon
Saphion Texas
STUDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
2 West Philly EV Team (HS)
K1-Attack kit car conversion HEV: Biodiesel + battery PbA
Hybrid Attack Pennsylvania
32 Western Washington U. Hybrid Club
Purpose-built HEV: Bio-methane (CNG) + Panasonic NMH
Viking 32 Washington
23 Western Washington U. Hybrid Club
Purpose-built HEV: Biodiesel + SAFT NMH
Viking 23 Washington
CATEGORY: BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
Veh# Participant-Team Name
Year/Make/Model Propulsion System
Vehicle Name State
INDEPENDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
19 Electrovaya
2002 Tracker conversion Electric (Battery: Electrovaya LiIon)
Maya-100 Ontario, Canada
STUDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
16 Burlington County Electechs
Burlington County Electechs Electric (Battery: GNB PbA)
The Olympian New Jersey
45 Methacton Electric Car Club
1999 "Lomax" kit car conversion
Electric (Battery: Eagle Picher PbA)
The Lorax Pennsylvania
56 St. Mark's Electric Vehicle Club
1994 Ford Ranger conversion Electric (Battery: Trojan PbA)
Woodstock Massachusetts
50 Tandem Friends School
2005 Purpose-built Electric (Battery: Optima PbA)
Sola Rola Virginia
66 U. Maine Solar Vehicle Team
Purpose-built Electric (Solar+Battery: Trojan PbA)
Phantom Sol Maine
53 www.revolutionride.org (N. Haven HS)
1986 VW Vanagon conversion Electric (Battery: PbA)
Revolution Ride Maine
CATEGORY: SOLAR-ASSISTED ELECTRIC VEHICLES
Veh# Participant-Team Name
Year/Make/Model Propulsion System
Vehicle Name State
STUDENT DIVISION: One-person light-duty vehicles
92 Cato-Meridian HS Technology Team
1992 Purpose-built Electric (Solar + Battery: Ovonic NMH)
Sunpacer New York
7 IHS Solar Car Team (W. Irondequoit HS)
1999 Purpose-built Electric (Solar + Battery: Trojan PbA)
Zodiac New York
STUDENT DIVISION: Two-person light-duty vehicles
20 U. Maine Solar Vehicle Team
1986 Chevy S-10 conversion Electric (Solar + Battery: Trojan PbA)
Solar Black Bear Maine
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #6: E-Bike & NEV Competition at the 2005 Tour de Sol (Entrants)
The Sustainable Energy and Transportation Festival and Competition has a
separate sub-competition for the short-range vehicles like Electric Bikes
(E-Bikes) and Neighborhood Electric Vehicles (NEVs). Here is the list of
entrants. (See the full-sized vehicle entrants in the previous Report.)
E-Bike & NEV Competition at the 2005 Tour de Sol
Veh# Participant-Team Name
Year/Make/Model Propulsion System & Fuel
Vehicle Name State
INDEPENDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
33 Bassi Scientific
Purpose-built E-Bike Lead Acid Batteries
E-Bike Connecticut
34 Bassi Scientific
Purpose-built E-Bike Lead Acid Batteries
E-Racer Connecticut
35 Bassi Scientific
NEV Lead Acid Batteries
Low Speed NEV Connecticut
55 Partnerships
Purpose-built E-Bike Lithium Ion Batteries
E-bike New Jersey
300 Run About Cycles
Purpose-built, 3-wheeled Electric (Battery: Valence LiIon)
The RunAbout #1 Massachusetts
STUDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
24 Newburgh Free Academy Team
Purpose-built E-Bike Lead Acid Batteries
(to be announced) #1 New York
25 Newburgh Free Academy Team
Purpose-built E-Bike Lead Acid Batteries
(to be announced) #2 New York
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
djsharpe wrote:
> I am interested in your thoughts on voltage control during charging.
> Are bypass diodes recommended?
In theory, all batteries are identical. So, you can connect long strings
of them in series, and they behave like a single higher-voltage battery.
In practice, batteries are NOT identical! There are always small
variations between them. And, these differences get BIGGER over time,
and as a consequence of using the vehicle with imperfect chargers and
loads.
People and manufacturers have figured this out; but most choose to
ignore the problem. They don't provide any way to check for balance
between batteries, don't correct any imbalances, and just let the
batteries fail sooner. This adds cost later (early battery replacement),
but saves cost NOW.
But if you want the longest battery life and lowest overall cost over
life, you need to:
a) Monitor what each battery is doing, so you can tell if one is
getting weak or falling behind.
b) Provide some way to individually charge or discharge each battery,
so as to bring it back in line with the rest.
c) Detect an impending individual battery failure, so you can warn
the user and/or correct the problem before it causes an expensive
"chain reaction" of expensive failures.
> Lee Hart has a regulator more to your liking.
My home-made system is documented at:
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
Basically, it consists of a bunch of relays so you can select each
individual battery, a multimeter so you can measure its voltage, a
charger to you can charge it as needed, and a microcomputer to run the
system automatically.
I've found you can basically double battery life with such a system. It
can "prop up" a weak battery by charging it so it doesn't go dead any
sooner than the rest of the batteries in the pack. This lets maintain
range and performance much longer than systems where your weakest
battery becomes the "weak link" that limits your range and performance,
and so requires early replacement of the whole pack.
You can built a similar system however you want, in pieces on an
as-you-go basis, or all at once. For example, some people just use a
rotary switch and meter, and manually connect the charger as needed.
On the other hand, it's complex and expensive. The "quick and dirty"
approach is to connect some kind of load device (resistor, light bulb,
electronic regulator) across each battery. When you charge, these
individual regulators bypass some or all of the charging current as each
battery reaches "full". This won't do anything during discharge, but it
does push the batteries back towards balance each time you recharge.
Most of these regulators are simple, and convert the excess charging
energy into heat. They are limited by the heat they can handle, and so
are limited in how much imbalance between batteries they can manage.
But, they are certainly better than nothing!
The Rudman Regulators are (I think) about $40 per battery. The PowerCheq
regulators are (I think) about double that. The cheapest regulators of
this type are probably the zener-and-light-bulb versions I designed and
posted information about on the EV list -- they are $5-$10 per battery
if you build them yourself.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The initial question was for a simple electronic thermostat circuit,
presumably measuring temperature at one location, to accurately
and/or repeatably control some relays. Seems like an easy one, I
hope an electrikker responds with a solution...
But I'm a gearhead, so I'll share some thoughts on a mechanical
solution.
I've been looking into this for battery heater control. Most
mechanical thermostats are accurate to 3-5 F setpoint and another 3-
5 hysteresis, for a total of 6-10 spread among a set of 2 or more.
Unless you select matching units from some batch, which is often a
good solution.
Since I'd need 16 matching Tstats, selecting would have to be done
form a very large batch, probably not practical (match setpoint and
hysteresis...) I've identified two potential sources for precision
mechanical thermostats:
http://www.ulanet.com/
http://www.thermtrol.com/2amp.htm
Some are adjustable if you're willing to build a calibration setup.
I have not called for pricing (afraid of bad news I guess).
Thermocouples and RTDs (Resistance Temperature Detectors -
essentially a linear thermister) are as accurate as the elex that
drive them and no more. They are prone to electrical noise, thermal
drift of the control electronics, lead wire participation, and self-
heating in the case of thermisters and RTDs. A typical controller
that can produce 1 or 2 degree accuracy is $100 to $300 (but you can
get proportional control for this price). See;
http://www.mcshaneinc.com/html/5CX-500.html
Much thanks to the lister who posted a link to this shop a while
back.
-GT
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> David,
>
> I don't think you are going to get that kind of
> accuracy out of a junkyard circuit. The thermocouples
> alone will have a resolution of a couple of degrees
> unless they are 'special limit' type. By the time you
> add a circuit of some kind (especially a junk yard
> circuit), i think the best you can hope for is about a
> 5 degree window.
>
> RTD's are a little more accurate, i think, but I don't
> have a lot of experience working with them.
>
> ~fortunat
>
>
>
> --- David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I need to come up with a cheap and easy to build but
> > close tolerance
> > thermostat circuit that will work off 12V. Need to
> > hold 1% or less at 100
> > deg F and be able to turn on and off 1 maybe 2
> > relays. Preferrably without a
> > microprocessor. I have lots of thermistors & non
> > specialized ICs and the
> > like in the Junqueyard. Anyone got a junk box
> > circuit to share? Hmm, this
> > MIGHT be ev related if it would work for a battery
> > heater control. Thanks in
> > advance for any help.
> >
> > David Chapman
> > Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
> > http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 4/17/2005 10:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< hi all,
did someone on this list do an el camino conversion... >>
Roland Wiench has an El Camino
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
HTH,
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have not tried them.
However I'm personally not interested until they come up with
a "terminator" with 4 wires to bridge the + and - side of the pack.
This would close the loop and dissipate any accumulated voltage
tolerance along the length of the chain. When I emailed them about
this the idea was dismissed.
Statisticaly, the odds are with you that this isn't necessary. I
don't want to gamble on this one.
The overcharging thing I think is useful even with a balanced pack?
-GT
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "John Foster" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Has anyone had a chance to test the "new & improved" power cheqs?
>
> http://www.powerdesigners.com/powercheq.htm
>
> Besides balancing while charging or under power, they do it while
> sitting idle.
>
> I'm hoping this will reduce the problem of imbalance from unequal
> self-discharge. Cars left unplugged for long periods, then charged
up
> once and driven can have batteries damaged. (If they don't have a
Lee
> Hart Bat Bridge or equivalent.)
>
> But will individual cells still get out of whack despite the
> inter-battery charge shunting? IE do we really just have to keep
> periodically (over) charging a parked car?
>
>
> - John
>
> John Foster
> VEVA Tresurer
> Dynasty Electric Car Co
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For UL listed Orange welding cable, see
http://www.mcmaster.com/
Search for vu-tron or go to catalog page 3142. Available in 10 foot
lengths (or more). 2/0 = $3.23 per foot plus shipping.
I bought some and found it to be springier than the generic super-
flexible black cable (the limp stuff is easier to route).
I would think that regardless of color, if you mess around with a
cable that large your judgement is extremely BAD.
-GT
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > These folks have a pretty good price on orange cable (as well as
red,
> > black, blue, green, & yellow):
> > http://store.solar-electric.com/wc--4.html
>
> The price is good, and they at least list orange (though say it's
not
> stocked). Has anyone ordered any from them (any color) to see if
this is
> UL listed, or just unmarked untested imported stuff?
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
mike golub wrote:
> 1. Couldn't you use a DMM as a meter in your car?
> Turning it on when you need to?
Sure; why not?
The only real roadblock is that almost all digital multimeters require a
9v battery for power, and the + and - of this battery are ***NOT***
common with the meter's inputs. So, you require an isolated source of 9v
to power the meter.
> 2. I have a DMM with a rs 232 jack, so I guess you could connect
> it to an onboard computer and an LCD screen, or laptop.
Yes. I do this for my Battery Balancer. You don't need a PC, either.
Some DMMs output generic ASCII, which can be read and displayed by any
cheap little computer (BASIC Stamp, etc.)
> But you'd have to rip out more sections of the dashboard?
I don't see why. The DMM can be hidden anywhere; connect your display to
whatever little computer you are using to read its RS-232 data. This
computer's display can be anything you like; a digital display, the
dashboard's analog "fuel" gauge, an LCD module, etc.
> 3. But using a PC in the car seems overkill in wasting juice.
Yes a modern laptop PC would murder your 12v accessory battery in no
time. But as I said, you don't need a PC. ANYTHING that can read RS-232
data will work.
> Is there a reason why we aren't saving our last watt?
It all depends on what is important to you. An EV is a complex machine.
No one person is an expert on everything. So, you focus on what's
important to you, and what you can do with your skills; optimize that,
and let the rest go (for now).
> 4-I was wondering how do you pass the emissions test
> in California when you convert the vehicle? Has anyone
> dealt with any weirdo...looking for a tailpipe? I'm in
> Alaska and we are using the same CARB regulations up
> here, except they don't have a bunch ev-guru's up here
> pushing the system.
It's always fun to watch the look on the emission tester's face when he
encounters his first EV. It should be obvious to an idiot that you don't
need to emission-test an EV -- there *aren't* any emissions! But
bureaucrats aren't paid to think; just to follow rules, even when they
don't make sense.
There are almost certainly exceptions in the rule books for EVs. But the
person testing your EV probably doesn't know that. You'll have to
patiently have him look it up, and gently educate him.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When ceramic heater cores and baseboard electric heaters have various
voltages values across them, do they behave like resistors (i.e., with a
fairly constant resistance), like light bulbs (i.e., with a fairly constant
current) or some other way?
In our home, the bedroom is directly above the garage. Another idea I had
for occasional fast charging was to rectify 220V AC to DC, run heavy gauge
wire up to the bedroom to some paralleled baseboard heaters, then back down
in series to the battery pack. This would limit the current to whatever
value I chose, given the number of heaters. But instead of being wasted,
the extra energy would provide some additional heating to the home in
winter.
Of course, there'd be circuitry to stop the charging at the appropriate
point.
Any problems with that approach? I thought something similar might have
been discussed on the EVDL within the last year, but I couldn't find the
thread.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all who replied, and the grab bag prize goes to Rick P. of Phx for
submitting this find:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm#therm.gif
scroll down to the bottom of the page, has a couple thermostat circuits.
Looks like the top one will be perfect for my needs and might be useful for
a battery heater thermostat project. I would be interesting to do up a pc
layout after i breadboard and test mine. Is there any decent easy to use
freeware/shareware out there that will let me print a mask transparency on
my inkjet so I can do a photolith board?
BTW, anyone guessed what I need a "Cheep" thermostat for yet, LOL?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This looks similar to the Bill Bowden circuit I sent to the list earlier. I
wonder which would be more accurate or stable?
http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-inoue/e_ckt25.htm
Hmm, gotta pick one and get it built. Getting to be a pain regulating the
temp by hand. DC.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
each time i see your car dashboard i'm scared Roland
DARLING NOOOO it's selfdestruction switch BOOOOMMM
:^)
sorry
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: el camino
> In a message dated 4/17/2005 10:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << hi all,
> did someone on this list do an el camino conversion... >>
> Roland Wiench has an El Camino
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html
>
> HTH,
>
> Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: Philippe Borges<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 3:54 PM
Subject: Re: el camino
each time i see your car dashboard i'm scared Roland
DARLING NOOOO it's selfdestruction switch BOOOOMMM
:^)
sorry
Philippe
You have to be careful what switches you activated, could eject you straight
up.
Roland
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/>
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php<http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php>
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>>
To: <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:56 PM
Subject: Re: el camino
> In a message dated 4/17/2005 10:13:01 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> << hi all,
> did someone on this list do an el camino conversion... >>
> Roland Wiench has an El Camino
>
>
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html<http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/470.html>
>
> HTH,
>
> Ben
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Keith,
Just type in your search engine:
Roland Wiench 1977 El Camino Electro
It is listed under G in the EV Album
This car was a original 350 Cu.In. engine vehicle, that first ran on the
following systems.
Gasoline
Alcohol
Vaporize Gasoline
Propane
Hydrogen-Oxygen fuel system
A second engine design which was a 254 cu.in. Buick V6 that was series hybrid
with the existing GE 32 HP 165 VDC @ 175 Amp 6000 RPM Series Type 12 inch
traction motor with 800 amp CableForm controller and 90 each 2 volt 300 AH
cobalt cells.
The total weight with engine and electric was about 8000 lbs. But it still
take me to work going up a steep hill at 75 mph doing average of 33 mpg. The
slower around town speeds, the mpg would go below 10 mpg. Best mpg was 44 at
50 mph on a flat grade.
Converted it to pure electric because most of my driving is in town driving. It
now has Zilla controller and a PFC-50B charger, and Trojan T-145 260 AH
batteries. The weight is now at 6800 lbs. There is about 1000 lbs of extra
weight that is added which includes a hatch system, and very heavy duty battery
and charger compartments.
The weight could be in the 5500 lbs range if it was left in the standard form.
If a 1978 and later El Camino was used, it is possible to get the weight into
the 3000's using carbon fiber and plastic panels from the El Camino Store.
They have a complete carbon fiber panel El Camino with a tube frame that weighs
in at 2400lbs!!!
Therefore a person could build a large EV with lots of space using these
replacement panels.
It has a 5.57 differential axle ratio, of which I can just used final
transmission gear of 1.0:1 to move the vehicle as if had a engine in it. The
first and second gear is to wicked on acceleration, like someone hitting you in
the rear. The overall gear ratio in first gear is 19.459:1.
The GE motor has very heavy wall housing, where the sides of this housing is
tapped, so standard 350 cu.in. engine mounts can be bolted to the side of the
motor. The motor then bolts in the same place the engine was mounted.
The motor drives a accessory package with the pilot shaft off the motor thru a
Dodge D Flex Coupler to three self aligning face bearings mounted on two
aluminum plates that is supported by four donut engine mounts to the frame.
I mounted a GMC Diesel Truck Engine accessory mounting, that normally mounts to
the front of the truck engine, to the aluminum plates. These have brackets for
a very large alternator that has three phase output for a 7000 watt 120 volt
inverter and 13.5 to 15 volt DC at 145 amp output, a power steering unit, a air
conditional unit and a place for a GM Diesel vacuum pump. Did not used the
mechanical water pump, but used a remote water pump which I got from JEGS for
circulating hot water thru the existing heater core, which is heated with a
1000 watt 120 VAC engine heater power by the alternator-invertors.
There is 30 each 71 lb 6 volt Trojan T-145 install in a 1/4 thick fiberglass
box that is coated with the same porcelain enamel that is used on sinks or
showers. These are place in the bed just ahead of the rear axle to the rear
window.
Using standard suspension springs, the rear would be only 1 inch lower than the
front, but the car body would be about 5 inches lower in the rear and 4 inches
in the front.
The El Camino springs have a 2500 lb rating, so I change the rear to a 3500 lb
rating and Monroe air shocks. In the fronts, I replace the springs and shock
with a Air Shock Wave unit from www.ridetech.com<http://www.ridetech.com/>.
The car can be adjusted to level and has a 3 inch lower ride than normal.
The rear axle bearings was change to a 3 inch bearing that has a outer and
inter race. The GM bearing systems, normally has it bearings riding right on
axles. I used a GM C Clip Eliminator Kits from
www.markwilliams.com<http://www.markwilliams.com/> for this work.
The range of this vehicle at 30 mph city driving is about 70 miles if I
discharge the batteries all the way down. I normally charge the batteries
every 4 days which I only used 50 AH out of a 260 AH battery pack. I now have
gone about 4 years on these batteries which only have a maximum of 0.04 volt
difference between them at maximum unbalance. I should be able to get at least
10 years out of these batteries at this rate.
I drive this EV every day, every single day. These are very short trips of
about eight 1/2 mile trips a day and sometimes 8 miles extra a week. I have
only used about 2 gallons of gas in my ICE car since July 2004!!
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: keith vansickle<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: list ev<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 11:11 AM
Subject: el camino
hi all,
did someone on this list do an el camino conversion...
who
when
where
how does it work?
thanks
keith
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Plan great trips with Yahoo! Travel: Now over 17,000 guides!
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide<http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
acid_lead wrote:
> The initial question was for a simple electronic thermostat circuit,
> presumably measuring temperature at one location, to accurately
> and/or repeatably control some relays. Seems like an easy one, I
> hope an electrikker responds with a solution...
>
> But I'm a gearhead, so I'll share some thoughts on a mechanical
> solution.
>
> I've been looking into this for battery heater control. Most
> mechanical thermostats are accurate to 3-5 F setpoint and another 3-
> 5 hysteresis, for a total of 6-10 spread among a set of 2 or more.
Home thermostats like the one that runs your furnace and air conditioner
are a lot more accurate than this. Most of them are simple mechanical
devices.
They use a long bimetal strip that is coiled up like a spring to
increase its temperature sensitivity (more movement for a small change
in temperature). The bimetal strip activates a mercury tilt switch (old
Honeywell t'stat) or a microswitch (most newer t'stats).
Such a switch would normaly have a large hysteresis (large difference
between its turn-on and turn-off temperatures). To fix this, they have a
resistance heating element right next to the bimetal strip. A known
amount of power is dissipated in this resistor when the heat is "on".
This heats the bimetal several degrees above ambient. By adjusting the
power dissipated in this resistor (with a little rheostat called the
"anticipator"), you can reduce the hysteresis right to zero, or even
make it into a thermal oscillator. By this method, you can achieve
surprisingly precise temperature control.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I regularly use Eagle (linux version. Windows and Mac available):
http://www.cadsoft.de/
-Jon
David Chapman wrote:
Thanks to all who replied, and the grab bag prize goes to Rick P. of
Phx for submitting this find:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm#therm.gif
scroll down to the bottom of the page, has a couple thermostat
circuits. Looks like the top one will be perfect for my needs and
might be useful for a battery heater thermostat project. I would be
interesting to do up a pc layout after i breadboard and test mine. Is
there any decent easy to use freeware/shareware out there that will
let me print a mask transparency on my inkjet so I can do a photolith
board?
BTW, anyone guessed what I need a "Cheep" thermostat for yet, LOL?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 4/17/05, David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks to all who replied, and the grab bag prize goes to Rick P. of Phx for
> submitting this find:
>
> http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm#therm.gif
> BTW, anyone guessed what I need a "Cheep" thermostat for yet, LOL?
A Sparrow? Do I win a prize? :)
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> When ceramic heater cores and baseboard electric heaters have
> various voltages values across them, do they behave like resistors
> (i.e., with a fairly constant resistance), like light bulbs (i.e.
> with a fairly constant current) or some other way?
Baseboard electric heaters are generally purely resistive.
Ceramic heaters are highly nonlinear; their resistance depends strongly
on their temperature. They generally have a modest resistance when cold,
and the resistance falls as they heat up until they reach a certain
temperature, where the resistance rises drastically. Unless you have a
thermostat or some other means to control their temperature, their
resistance is unpredictable.
> In our home, the bedroom is directly above the garage. Another idea
> I had for occasional fast charging was to rectify 220V AC to DC,
> run heavy gauge wire up to the bedroom to some paralleled baseboard
> heaters, then back down in series to the battery pack. This would
> limit the current to whatever value I chose, given the number of
> heaters. But instead of being wasted, the extra energy would provide
> some additional heating to the home in winter.
This would work, with care. A related idea is to use the heating element
in an electric water heater the same way. At least you use hot water
year round.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
