EV Digest 4289
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: bus bars
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Need cheep 12V thermostat circuit OT
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Wire Guage questions
by James H Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Another Cheep thermo circuit found!
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Microturbine engine hybrid??
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) microturbine engine hybrid
by Larry Skidmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Adapter hub runout - how bad is bad??
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another Newbie joins the ranks.
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: microturbine engine hybrid
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) Re: Another Newbie joins the ranks.
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Still boils down to money, was Re: Another Newbie joins the ranks.
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Eliminating motor current limits
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: el camino
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: bus bars
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Cheep Thermo circuit Found!!
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Need cheep 12V thermostat circuit OT
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) OT Re: Microturbine engine hybrid??
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) San Antonio EAA Chapter in the making
by "Jim Seibert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Adapter hub runout - how bad is bad??
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Microturbine engine hybrid??
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: microturbine engine hybrid
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Trouble getting to Roderick Wilde.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) BB600 screw size?
by Steve Gaarder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks, Lee. I didn't want my original post to get too long, but hot water
heating was exactly the summertime scenario I was thinking of. I guess I'd
want to get a 120V model, then calculate how many watt-hours it would take
to heat its 40 or 50 gallons of water up to a given temperature, like 120
degrees F.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Heat and Charge (Cogeneration?)
Bill Dennis wrote:
> When ceramic heater cores and baseboard electric heaters have
> various voltages values across them, do they behave like resistors
> (i.e., with a fairly constant resistance), like light bulbs (i.e.
> with a fairly constant current) or some other way?
Baseboard electric heaters are generally purely resistive.
Ceramic heaters are highly nonlinear; their resistance depends strongly
on their temperature. They generally have a modest resistance when cold,
and the resistance falls as they heat up until they reach a certain
temperature, where the resistance rises drastically. Unless you have a
thermostat or some other means to control their temperature, their
resistance is unpredictable.
> In our home, the bedroom is directly above the garage. Another idea
> I had for occasional fast charging was to rectify 220V AC to DC,
> run heavy gauge wire up to the bedroom to some paralleled baseboard
> heaters, then back down in series to the battery pack. This would
> limit the current to whatever value I chose, given the number of
> heaters. But instead of being wasted, the extra energy would provide
> some additional heating to the home in winter.
This would work, with care. A related idea is to use the heating element
in an electric water heater the same way. At least you use hot water
year round.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M Bianchi wrote:
> I have not tried this, yet, but am thinking about it. Does anyone
> have any experience using Bellvilles to prevent the connections
> from loosening?
I use them on my battery bolts. They do indeed keep them from loosening.
However, finding them may be a challenge. I bought a box of belleville
washers from Grainger. What they delivered LOOKED like belleville spring
washers; but they were actually plain old cheap mild steel washers that
had been "dished" to look like bellevilles! When I complained and showed
them (This is no spring washer! Look, you can bend it in half and it
*stays* bent!) They took them back, muttered about foreign suppliers,
and eventually came back with REAL belleville spring washers instead of
cheap junk substitutes.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:38:58 -0700, "David Chapman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I need to come up with a cheap and easy to build but close tolerance
>thermostat circuit that will work off 12V. Need to hold 1% or less at 100
>deg F and be able to turn on and off 1 maybe 2 relays. Preferrably without a
>microprocessor. I have lots of thermistors & non specialized ICs and the
>like in the Junqueyard. Anyone got a junk box circuit to share? Hmm, this
>MIGHT be ev related if it would work for a battery heater control. Thanks in
>advance for any help.
The absolute simplest is the Dallas Semi One Wire thermostat. You
have to input the setpoint and deadband using the One Wire protocol
but after that, all it needs is power and ground. A third pin is the
thermostat output. Dallas has on their web site a simple serial (and
parallel) port level translator that you could build in an hour or so,
and the necessary software. They also sell the level translators
(what I use) if you don't want to roll your own. A three terminal
regulator, the One Wire device and either a low coil current relay or
a buffer transistor makes up the thermostat. If you need two relays,
simply use two One Wires. Only about $3 ea in single piece
quantities.
Another simple thermostat is a common electronic room thermostat. The
Hunter brand (Walmart) allows the deadband to be set down to one deg.
If you need a remote sensor, simply unsolder the thermister from the
thermostat board and extend it with some shielded twisted pair. A
simple resistor change will make the thermostat run on 12vdc instead
of 24vac. Or an RV thermostat could be obtained
(http://wwww.campingworld.com and other places) that run on 12vdc.
Omega engineering sells some quite inexpensive thermostat modules that
use thermisters.
You might also check places like Surplus Center for surplus modules.
Notice that I've not mentioned any circuits. That's because it takes
a lot of work to achieve 1% accuracy over the long term. Power supply
stability, temperature coefficients of the components, ageing
characteristics are all involved. Given the low cost of thermostats
in general, it seems to me it is better to buy someone else's
engineering via commercially available modules.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has the dust settled on this debate?
Do I redo the YELLOW HV wiring in my TEVan, or the BlACK with the Black
connector on one end and Red on the other end?
Or do I make it ORANGE like all the Fibre Optic Cables the same as at work?
Now that I think about it this may be a source for ORANGE wire loom.
Jim
'93 Dodge TEVan
"Breathe Easy - It's Electric"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where you going to insulate the batteries as well?
--- David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This looks similar to the Bill Bowden circuit I sent
> to the list earlier. I
> wonder which would be more accurate or stable?
>
> http://www.interq.or.jp/japan/se-inoue/e_ckt25.htm
>
> Hmm, gotta pick one and get it built. Getting to be
> a pain regulating the
> temp by hand. DC.
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have been looking in to the possibility of using a more efficient
generator to turn my EV into a hybrid.
I looked for information about engines that run well in a single
speed range, and found a little bit of info covering microturbine
engines.
Some sites claim an engine in this configuration can be 85% efficient.
Is that even possible?
Also, can you buy one of these? The only site I found sold 30KW versions
for ~$1000/KWatt. Can they be found for less? Is this a bad idea?
Thanks!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just hauled out an old copy of Electrifying Times (Vol 8 #1&2 Running on Vapor)
which summarizes the vaporized gasoline pre-carb legend.
Don't know how much hooey - (it does smack of conspiracy theory), but a lot of
first hand experience and patents are cited.
I've no personal experience, but it might be an interesting alternative to the
more exotic microturbine. I'm only slightly bothered that there is not much
"engineering" description of how vapor carbs work under varying loads, etc. but
that might not be a great hurdle if the ice is working in a fixed range.
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks -I'll do that.
Phil
From: jimevdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Adapter hub runout - how bad is bad??
Date: Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:27:26 -0500 (GMT-05:00)
I don't have a feel for how much runout is bad, but I do have a
recommendation.
Before you go a lot further, bolt your motor down, and spin it (and the
flywheel) under power. I've heard 12 VDC is adequate to "test" the motor
w/o load, but you may need a bit more to see how it shakes at your target
RPM's. If you have a motor controller, and can vary the volts, all the
better.
The reason I am saying this is that my Celica flywheel (or clutch/flywheel)
has a noticeable vibration when I go to about 3500 RPM. It's there in all
gears, and with the clutch disengaged, so I really think it's my flywheel
balance.
I'm kicking myself now for not checking the flywheel balance before
assembly (heck, I didn't even measure runout- looked OK to my eyeball, and
I got the hub adapter from a reliable source)
Now, I'm looking at tearing it all apart (it's FWD, and I have to pull the
steering knuckles part way out to get the drive shafts/tranny out).
Wish I had been engaged on this list way a year ago!
Best regards, Jim
-----Original Message-----
From: Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Apr 16, 2005 9:35 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Adapter hub runout - how bad is bad??
As far as clutch engagement is concerned, it shouldn't make any
difference...as long as the motor and tranny shafts are lined up.
Not sure, but it might cause a ballance problem at high RPMs though.
> I'm making my own adapter for my Echo conversion, and I've run into a
> possible snag.
>
> I just finished machining my hub ( I'm using a purchased QD taper
bushing
> on
> the motor shaft). A friend of mine has a lathe, and helped me out with
> it,
> but clearly my machining skills need some work.
>
> I mounted the hub on the motor shaft and torqued the locking screws to
> spec
> ( provided by by the bushing manufacturer), and released the brush
springs
> so I can spin the hub easily. The flywheel surface runout seem OK:
The
> Toyota manual ( this is an Echo) gives a TIR limit of 0.004 inches at
the
> outer part of the flywheel friction surface, and I measure 0.003 on
mine.
> Fine.
>
> But, the flywheel is visibly ( barely) running out in its own plane. I
> measured TIR = 0.005 inches, at the flywheel centering boss on the hub
.
> That is, the center of the flywheel doesn't line up with the center of
> the
> motor shaft. ( Don't ask how I could have made the part this way).
>
> How much in-plane runout of the flywheel is a problem? Maybe this isn't
> critical as long as the motor centerline is aligned with the
transmission
> centerline ( which I will do) and, balance the flywheel/clutch
assembly
> on
> the motor shaft.
>
> Any ideas on this? If will be a few weeks at least before I have the
> adapter plate finished and can assemble and run the motor/transmission,
> but
> I'd like to solve this problem first ( if it is a problem)
>
>
> Comments, ideas???
>
> By the way, I did try removing and remounting the hub, in different
> rotations relative to the bushing, and the runout is pretty consistent,
so
> I'm sure it is the hub itself.
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
If you're going with floodeds, you shouldn't use more than a 500A controller to
prevent battery damage,
I disagree. You could use a larger controller to get more current to the
motor, and thus more low end power, you just need to make sure you can
set the battery current to a reasonable max. limit.
For example, I originally had a DCP Raptor 600-amp controller in my Jeep
Cherokee EV. It was underpowered, and gave pretty poor performance, as
I was always hitting the current limit of 600 amps in the motor loop,
but getting nowhere close to that on the battery loop. I tended to _not_
be able to pull more than 250-300 battery amps because the controller
was always stuck in current limit on the motor loop.
I've since upgraded to a 1000-amp Zilla controller, but I have my Zilla
programmed to never pull more than 400 amps on the battery side. Yet, my
Jeep is significantly more powerful with the Zilla installed because I
can now pull all 400 battery amps, as I'm not always in current limit on
the motor side. This means I am still _not_ harming my batteries
(keeping the current at a reasonable level), but am getting more overall
power out of them and into my motor.
Kevin, If you are converting a heavy vehicle like a van, I'd use a 600
amp controller _absolute_ minimum, 1000 amp or more would be best (IMO).
That way you won't have to spend more time/money upgrading the
controller after the fact when you're getting less-than-desired
performance out of your EV (i.e. what happened to me).
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Thanks, Lee. I didn't want my original post to get too long,
> but hot water heating was exactly the summertime scenario I was
> thinking of. I guess I'd want to get a 120V model, then calculate
> how many watt-hours it would take to heat its 40 or 50 gallons
> of water up to a given temperature, like 120 degrees F.
Here are some notes in case you want to use a water heater as a resistor
for battery testing or charging:
Electric water heaters usually have two heating elements; an upper one
and a lower one. There are also two thermostats; an upper one and a
lower one. The upper one is usually fixed (non-adjustable). The lower
one has the adjustment knob for water temperature.
If the amount of electric power is limited (by the size of your breaker
panel or the breaker and wire size running from it to the water heater),
they wire the two heaters and thermostats so only ONE can be on at a
time. The bottom (adjustable) thermostat has both a normally-open and a
normally-closed switch contact. If the lower t'stat isn't calling for
heat, then it enables the upper t'stat to call for heat. Wired this way,
it (obviously) heats half as fast, but won't blow breakers. The water
heaters usually come wired this way.
If you have lots of power, you can change it to power both elements at
once. It heats twice as fast, but needs twice the breaker and wire size.
They wire them this way for restaurants or other applications where they
use more hot water.
Since there are TWO elements, and one is usually all they use, you can
rewire the upper t'stat and its heating element to use for your EV
resistor. Since you still have a t'stat, it won't overheat. It's just
that the more heat you dump in the top, the less heat the bottom will
supply.
There will be a wider variation in the temperature of the hot water you
get when the heating elements are wired this way. With the top element
never used (bad, for example; or you connected it to your EV charger and
aren't charging it any more), it can take a long time for hot water at
the bottom of the tank to heat the colder water at the top. This problem
is usually tolerable unless your water heater is just barely adequate
as-is (people complain about not enough hot water, or that the
temperature varies too much).
DON'T use the water heater's t'stats on DC!!! They will FAIL FULL-ON!!!
Use the water heater's t'stat on the AC side of the line, not on the DC
side that goes to the batteries.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< Just hauled out an old copy of Electrifying Times (Vol 8 #1&2 Running on
Vapor)
which summarizes the vaporized gasoline pre-carb legend.
Don't know how much hooey - (it does smack of conspiracy theory), but a lot of
first hand experience and patents are cited. >>
If vaporizing gasoline made any difference, wouldn't that mean CNG- or LP-fueled
engines would run at higher efficiencies? They don't, as far as I know - they
burn cleaner, but from what I've read, the energy-out/energy-in percentage
isn't notably better. Maybe those that get any increased mileage are "running
on fumes", driving off the higher volatility hydrocarbons the heat process
releases, but sending the heavier, harder-to-vaporize compounds back to the
tank, meaning they either have to keep making adjustments throughout each
refill, or just refill the tank sooner and sooner with each fill-up...but
that's just a theory.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 17 Apr 2005 at 23:30, Nick Viera wrote:
> Kevin, If you are converting a heavy vehicle like a van ...
This is an OLD van. It's no heavier than a lot of modern small pickups.
It's amazing and disappointing how porky new vehicles are. The VW Golf has
bloated out to nearly 3000 lb. The old 70s Rabbits were barely 2000 lb.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< I disagree. You could use a larger controller to get more current to the
motor, and thus more low end power, you just need to make sure you can
set the battery current to a reasonable max. limit.
For example, I originally had a DCP Raptor 600-amp controller in my Jeep
Cherokee EV. It was underpowered, and gave pretty poor performance, as
I was always hitting the current limit of 600 amps in the motor loop,
but getting nowhere close to that on the battery loop. I tended to _not_
be able to pull more than 250-300 battery amps because the controller
was always stuck in current limit on the motor loop.
I've since upgraded to a 1000-amp Zilla controller, but I have my Zilla
programmed to never pull more than 400 amps on the battery side. Yet, my
Jeep is significantly more powerful with the Zilla installed because I
can now pull all 400 battery amps, as I'm not always in current limit on
the motor side. This means I am still _not_ harming my batteries
(keeping the current at a reasonable level), but am getting more overall
power out of them and into my motor. >>
Actually, you are agreeing, you're just describing a more expensive controller
that can allow high motor currents while keeping to the same limited battery
current you want from floodeds. I got the impression he was on a budget, which
might not allow the $500 difference from a Curtis to a Z1K (but if he was
really limiting funds, a 120V Curtis would save another $500). Of course, if he
does have the money, just going with the Zilla would save some time and grief
from the ICE drivers about moping around in a slow-poke EV!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< I've since upgraded to a 1000-amp Zilla controller, but I have my Zilla
programmed to never pull more than 400 amps on the battery side. Yet, my
Jeep is significantly more powerful with the Zilla installed because I
can now pull all 400 battery amps, as I'm not always in current limit on
the motor side. This means I am still _not_ harming my batteries
(keeping the current at a reasonable level), but am getting more overall
power out of them and into my motor. >>
Is there any way to leave the battery current limit in a Curtis (i.e.-input
amps), but remove that limit from the motor circuit (i.e.-output amps)? This
seems like a useful thing to dbe able to do, eliminating one of the major
drawbacks of their controllers. Is limiting both input and output an
unalterable fact of their design, or something one can access and change
(especially if it doesn't mean the kind of work Otmar did to add regen)? Maybe
this is just wishful thinking...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---- Original Message -----
From: "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 12:32 AM
Subject: Re: el camino
> You have to be careful what switches you activated, could eject you
>straight up.
> Roland
:^)
Philippe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You will find this interesting:
http://www.da-tor.it/ing/famiglia5.htm
I'm always thinking about Mister Gadget advise ;^)
you can find all you want from here:
http://www.mcmaster.com/param/asp/psearch.asp?DisplayType=Param&FAM=nuts&session=desc=Nuts;nuts
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, April 18, 2005 4:16 AM
Subject: Re: bus bars
> M Bianchi wrote:
> > I have not tried this, yet, but am thinking about it. Does anyone
> > have any experience using Bellvilles to prevent the connections
> > from loosening?
>
> I use them on my battery bolts. They do indeed keep them from loosening.
>
> However, finding them may be a challenge. I bought a box of belleville
> washers from Grainger. What they delivered LOOKED like belleville spring
> washers; but they were actually plain old cheap mild steel washers that
> had been "dished" to look like bellevilles! When I complained and showed
> them (This is no spring washer! Look, you can bend it in half and it
> *stays* bent!) They took them back, muttered about foreign suppliers,
> and eventually came back with REAL belleville spring washers instead of
> cheap junk substitutes.
> --
> If you would not be forgotten
> When your body's dead and rotten
> Then write of great deeds worth the reading
> Or do the great deeds worth repeating
> -- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
> --
> Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well Evan you are on the right track but not quite. Friday I took the wife
to the County fair and she fell in love with some rather strange looking
chickens. When I asked about buying a couple I damn near had a heart attack
when the fellow told me what he was asking for them, but after a little
while I managed to talk him out of 3 (hopefully) fertile eggs that the hens
had laid for `gratis. At least he assured me they should be fertile, he
might be laughing as we speak. Anyway got home and built an incubator out of
a styro cooler and a 12 V 25 Watt light bulb but has been a real PITA hand
regulating the temp. Not to mention rotating the eggs on a strict schedule
the wife has worked out. Wish I had never taught her to GOOGLE. I think my
next endeavor is going to be an automatic rotator so I can get away and get
some real work done. Tell ya what Evan, as a consolation prize if these
don't hatch in 3 weeks i will send them to you :-). TTYL David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 3:49 PM
Subject: Re: Cheep Thermo circuit Found!!
On 4/17/05, David Chapman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks to all who replied, and the grab bag prize goes to Rick P. of Phx
for
submitting this find:
http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/Bill_Bowden/page2.htm#therm.gif
BTW, anyone guessed what I need a "Cheep" thermostat for yet, LOL?
A Sparrow? Do I win a prize? :)
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great ideas John, thanks! I liked Lees parallel post too but I am frankly
more comfortable with an electronic solution like that Dallas Semi, I really
like that solution, will hit Tri-Tek in the AM and see if they stock it. I
need to hold a temperature of 95.5-100.5 with a 1 degree hysterisis. If I
can't find one locally I will take a peek at that Walmart Hunter and see if
I can hack the voltage. Dealing with the RV guys around here is like
volunteering to be held up at gunpoint, they get mega bucks for anything to
do with RVs. And especially when its a simple derivative of a common
commercial product it kinda chaps my A**. Will let ya know how it comes out.
Regards, David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 6:27 PM
Subject: Re: Need cheep 12V thermostat circuit OT
On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 02:38:58 -0700, "David Chapman"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I need to come up with a cheap and easy to build but close tolerance
thermostat circuit that will work off 12V. Need to hold 1% or less at 100
deg F and be able to turn on and off 1 maybe 2 relays. Preferrably without
a
microprocessor. I have lots of thermistors & non specialized ICs and the
like in the Junqueyard. Anyone got a junk box circuit to share? Hmm, this
MIGHT be ev related if it would work for a battery heater control. Thanks
in
advance for any help.
The absolute simplest is the Dallas Semi One Wire thermostat. You
have to input the setpoint and deadband using the One Wire protocol
but after that, all it needs is power and ground. A third pin is the
thermostat output. Dallas has on their web site a simple serial (and
parallel) port level translator that you could build in an hour or so,
and the necessary software. They also sell the level translators
(what I use) if you don't want to roll your own. A three terminal
regulator, the One Wire device and either a low coil current relay or
a buffer transistor makes up the thermostat. If you need two relays,
simply use two One Wires. Only about $3 ea in single piece
quantities.
Another simple thermostat is a common electronic room thermostat. The
Hunter brand (Walmart) allows the deadband to be set down to one deg.
If you need a remote sensor, simply unsolder the thermister from the
thermostat board and extend it with some shielded twisted pair. A
simple resistor change will make the thermostat run on 12vdc instead
of 24vac. Or an RV thermostat could be obtained
(http://wwww.campingworld.com and other places) that run on 12vdc.
Omega engineering sells some quite inexpensive thermostat modules that
use thermisters.
You might also check places like Surplus Center for surplus modules.
Notice that I've not mentioned any circuits. That's because it takes
a lot of work to achieve 1% accuracy over the long term. Power supply
stability, temperature coefficients of the components, ageing
characteristics are all involved. Given the low cost of thermostats
in general, it seems to me it is better to buy someone else's
engineering via commercially available modules.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
http://neonjohn.blogspot.com <-- NEW!
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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Hi Nick and All
Micro or any movable gas turbine, IE not
large utility powerplant units, are not that eff, I'd
bet in the 20% range for the best of them like
Capstone. They get worse from there.
Where they get 85% eff is using the waste
heat for building heat, ect.
Come on guys, vapor carbs? If it was true
then fuel injection would double, quaduple gas
mileage!
For the best carbs either a Webber or
Mukini gets very close to FI in eff so for small
engines use Mukini's and larger ones use Webbers for
best emissions, eff on hybrid motors.
Webbers can be found in any speed shop and
used on many older cars if you know where to look,
especially Europeon and VW's many times have them or
their aftermarket has the best prices on them.
Mukini's come on most motorcycles so just
pick one of the HP size you need/cylinder of the MC if
multicarb.
Best 25-50 hp motor is the 3cyl Metro,
Susuki which is very eff, low emissions and only
weighs 100 lbs stripped to longblock.
Nick, other newbies, we generally don't talk
about motors here as against the list rules. It should
be labeled OT and taken off list after a post or 2 if
it's directly related to getting a Hybrid or EV's
going. If not, shouldn't be posted at all.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
--- Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have been looking in to the possibility of using a
> more efficient
> generator to turn my EV into a hybrid.
>
> I looked for information about engines that run well
> in a single
> speed range, and found a little bit of info covering
> microturbine
> engines.
>
> Some sites claim an engine in this configuration can
> be 85% efficient.
> Is that even possible?
>
> Also, can you buy one of these? The only site I
> found sold 30KW versions
> for ~$1000/KWatt. Can they be found for less? Is
> this a bad idea?
>
> Thanks!
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This note is an invite to anyone in the San Antonio, Texas area, who is
interested in forming a new chapter of the EAA.
At a recent "Texas Plug-In", organized by the Austin EAA, in conjunction with
the National EAA annual meeting, a lot of folks expressed interest in starting
another chapter, closer to the North East side of SA. We technically have
enough members to start up a chapter, so I'm moving forward.
I have emailed many folks who signed up at the " 'Plug-in", but have had
limited response. I wanted to query those folks who are interested, but did not
attend the show, or who did not get that original email.
If you are interested, please email me personally (not as an EVDL general
reply). I'll contact you about the progress as we gather members and schedule
our first meeting. I'll probably try to have a meeting in about 2 weeks.
If you are not in the SA area, or are not interested, please disregard this
notice. I'll try to avoid the "global" EVDL for this any more, but I felt this
was "On Topic" enough, albeit somewhat limited in geographical scope. If you
are interested in joining a local club, but are not in my area, I encourage you
to visit the EAA web site and join in. http://www.eaaev.org/index.html
Best regards, Jim Seibert [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
I'm making my own adapter for my Echo conversion, and I've run into a
possible snag.
I just finished machining my hub ( I'm using a purchased QD taper bushing
on the motor shaft). A friend of mine has a lathe, and helped me out
with it, but clearly my machining skills need some work.
what is a qd taper bushing ? how much , and where did you get it ?
here are some pictures of my last one
http://www.grassrootsev.com/projectresearch.htm
Toyota manual ( this is an Echo) gives a TIR limit of 0.004 inches at the
outer part of the flywheel friction surface, and I measure 0.003 on mine.
Fine.
dose that mean you saw .006 on your gauge ,? it will read this way because
the + .003 becomes - 003. as you turn it 180 degrees .
But, the flywheel is visibly ( barely) running out in its own plane. I
measured TIR = 0.005 inches, at the flywheel centering boss on the hub .
That is, the center of the flywheel doesn't line up with the center of
the motor shaft. ( Don't ask how I could have made the part this way).
when you machished it did you have it on a shaft , and did you have a key in
the shaft . I had this happen on one I did , I used a old key when making it
and a new one putting it together , and it throw it off a few .001s ,
putting the old key in fixed it .
How much in-plane runout of the flywheel is a problem?
my worst one was .008 and it worked fine on 120v ( top speed in 2nd 25) but
when I went to 240 v at 35mph in 2nd I'd get a vibration which goes away at
around 40 ,
Maybe this isn't
critical as long as the motor centerline is aligned with the transmission
centerline ( which I will do) and, balance the flywheel/clutch assembly
on the motor shaft.
on the last few , I have just made it a game to see how close I can get. I
use a file , you can file a little on the side that is high , of course you
must use good filing teckneks , hold the file straight and all that . did
you try every possible way to boil it ( 6 if you have 6 bolts ) and measure
each way finding the best ? Another trick I do is to replace the metric
bolts with regular , which makes everything very tight to start , then when
I do the filing I can bring it in the little bit needed my last one ended up
.001 :-) , .
Any ideas on this? If will be a few weeks at least before I have the
adapter plate finished and can assemble and run the motor/transmission,
but I'd like to solve this problem first ( if it is a problem)
what is your plan for the plate , how are you going to line it up with the
tranny?
Steve clunn
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--- Begin Message ---
Nick Austin wrote:
I have been looking in to the possibility of using a more efficient
generator to turn my EV into a hybrid.
I looked for information about engines that run well in a single
speed range, and found a little bit of info covering microturbine
engines.
Some sites claim an engine in this configuration can be 85% efficient.
Is that even possible?
Also, can you buy one of these? The only site I found sold 30KW versions
for ~$1000/KWatt. Can they be found for less? Is this a bad idea?
Thanks!
It is my understanding that turbines are more efficient than diesels for
high power outputs (think "large standby generator")
Turbines are used almost exclusively over diesel for peak shaving power
plants because they can be started up quickly. They aren't super
efficient though, which is why they are also used in cogeneration
heat+electricity situations.
IMO a small turbine would not be efficient.
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
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--- Begin Message ---
A exhaust driven turbo supercharger works great using propane and/or
hydrogen-oxygen fuel. A standard 4 stroke engine, does not work good on a
hydrogen-oxygen fuel. You do not need the compression stroke, as when you
ignited this fuel, you get a instant explosion, which will cause the pistons to
push back down if you have any advanced at all.
If you want to experiment with the hydrogen-oxygen fuel system, used a exhaust
driven turbo charger with a heavy steel bolt on plate that covers the inlet
where the exhaust would go into it. Machine out the plate which should be
about 3 to 4 inches thick, with a inside concave to it, to make a round chamber
in it.
Drill and tapped two holes into this plate for two large diesel injectors.
Install a natural gas or propane regulators on two flexible stainless steel
lines with stainless steel threaded swivel fittings that is normally used for
fuel lines.
Drill another tapped hole for a spark plug or a glow plug that is used on a
diesel. In this system, you only have to ignited one time. Gap the spark
closer than normal, as where the water vapor will foul it up. You could used a
standard spark plug, but you would have to used a very high ignition voltage,
over 100,000 volts to clear out the water vapor.
Install a hydrogen and oxygen bottle gas to these lines with a natural gas
quick stainless steel ball valves on these lines. Turn the regulators all the
way off.
It is best to do this outside away from any ignition source on a windy day, so
you can purge the unused gas away from this unit, if you have trouble starting
it up. Maybe behind a blast shield to do this test!!!
After you turn on the bottle gas, open the valves, and adjust the hydrogen
lines to 1 oz pressure and the oxygen pressure to 8 oz pressure to get the
right combination. When you are at the correct pressures, than turn on the
ignition system.
If you get it right, the turbine blades will start to turn.
The reason for the 1 to 8 pressure ratio, is that the atomic weight of hydrogen
is 1 and the atomic weight of oxygen is 8. A 2 parts of hydrogen and 1 part of
oxygen was first used, this is measurement of volume, and it does not work.
When you get it running, you will see water vapor coming out of a short length
of exhaust pipe which we directed into a container. On the pulley shaft,
install any load type of device you want. Because of the speed of the turbo
shaft, you may want to gear this down. You can control the speed by reducing
the flow of gas going into the turbo charger.
The power ratio between hydrogen-oxygen and gasoline is:
Hydrogen-Oxygen = 550,000 btus per gallon of water
Gasoline = 115,000 btus per gallon of gas
You see that the H+O8 has 5 times more power than gas.
This is the reason when we experiment with this with a standard 350 cu.in. we
took out the mains in with 15 minutes of running. There was too much water
vapor blow by into the oil, which was not good. We had to time the engine 1 to
2 degrees over top dead center to get it to run, but this type of engine did
not run good at that advanced setting which was weak in power.
Therefore the turbo charger experiment works great.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Larry Skidmore<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2005 9:21 PM
Subject: microturbine engine hybrid
Just hauled out an old copy of Electrifying Times (Vol 8 #1&2 Running on
Vapor) which summarizes the vaporized gasoline pre-carb legend.
Don't know how much hooey - (it does smack of conspiracy theory), but a lot
of first hand experience and patents are cited.
I've no personal experience, but it might be an interesting alternative to
the more exotic microturbine. I'm only slightly bothered that there is not much
"engineering" description of how vapor carbs work under varying loads, etc. but
that might not be a great hurdle if the ice is working in a fixed range.
---------------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
(You guys must be busy.)
This message was created automatically by mail delivery software.
A message that you sent could not be delivered to one or more of its
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Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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--- Begin Message ---
Okay, I'm having a grand old time trying to figure out what kind of screws
are needed for a Saft BB600 NiCad. Someone said 10/32; they only go in
for a turn or two. Someone else said M5; they don't go in at all. M4
just slides in and out. 8/32 works, but seems a little loose. If there is
such a thing as an M4.5 that might be a good fit. (Interestingly, a
metric thread pitch of .08 is almost exactly the same as 32 threads per
inch.)
Does anyone know?
thanks,
Steve Gaarder
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