EV Digest 4323
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Mechanical PWM controllers
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: concept question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Curtis! Almost a aha!!
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Curtis! Almost a aha!!
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: probably need new shocks/springs (struts) on the VoltsRabbit, also
drilling polypro
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: batteries and range
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: concept question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) RE: concept question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: concept question
by D B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: probably need new shocks/springs (struts) on the VoltsRabbit, also
drilling polypro
by "Chuck Hursch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: concept question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
12) RE: concept question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) OT: big DC motor
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: concept question
by D B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: concept question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: concept question
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) loose fan on ADC 8"? CivicWithACord
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Citi Car on ebay
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) instant battery tester
by Ken Olum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Broken Sparrow on Ebay
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---Jeff Shanab wrote: > Here is my latest idea > > B+----------------------------------- > | | > _|_ _|_ > /_\ / \ > | | | > | \___/ > |_[]BBBBB | > BBRBB[]-| > BRRRB > B- ----------------------[]RRRRR There's no need to do this. Just wire the diode permanently across the motor. It automatically conducts as needed. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Conceptually, if a small vehicle with 4 wheel independent suspension > were modified with an Etek at each wheel and a 192v pack with a > 'zilla 1K controller, would it have decent speed and range? The concept is sound, but the Etek is the wrong motor for the job. The fundamental problem is that the Etek cannot produce enough torque. You would burn them up before you could get enough current for long enough to climb a steep hill, or accellerate at more than a leisurely rate. A second problem is that the Etek isn't built ruggedly enough to survive long as a wheel motor. The shock and vibration loads in a wheel are tremendous, and the Etek is rather flimsily built. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Stu and Jan wrote: > Well, I had my multimeter on the ohms scale by mistake. When I > touched the test probes from B- and to either #2 or #3 (I forget) > the bulbs lit up like gangbusters. Obviously the ohms setting was > supplying a voltage to the throttle terminals and that caused the > A- to B+ terminals to pass current. > I must have a really old Curtis 1204 that uses a Hall effect throttle. > All manuals that I have seen describe a 5k pot. > What gives? Other explanations please. Aha... I'll bet you have a Curtis that has been set up to require a 0-5 volt input to make it work! Try connecting your pot as a potentiometer to a 5v power supply, and see if that controls the output lamp (motor) speed. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Have you hooked the motor right to a 12 or 6volt battery , maybe there is dirt on the com , I have seen motors that have sat and needed a spin to get the dirt off ,
steve clunn
----- Original Message ----- From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV LIST" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:47 PM
Subject: Curtis! Almost a aha!!
Guys,
This project has/had me freaking out.
I may not be there yet but this is what just happened:
I replaced the motor with 3 auto brake bulbs wired in series.
I tried my 0-5k and 5k-0 test and all I saw was 9.8 volts at #2 and #3 terminals of the controller.
I tried applying the KSI before turning on the main breaker and then afterwards.
No joy.
Well, I had my multimeter on the ohms scale by mistake. When I touched the
test probes from B- and to either #2 or #3 (I forget) the bulbs lit up like
gangbusters.
Obviously the ohms setting was supplying a voltage to the throttle terminals
and that caused the A- to B+ terminals to pass current.
I must have a really old Curtis 1204 that uses a Hall effect throttle.
If so, how do I hook one up?
All manuals that I have seen describe a 5k pot.
What gives?
Other explanations please.
Boyntonstu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Does anyone have spring info on how to raise a 99' New Beetle a couple inches? Thanks, Mark ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 8:07 AM Subject: Re: probably need new shocks/springs (struts) on the VoltsRabbit, also drilling polypro > Hi All; > > I used BMW 526 rears in my Rabbit, 82, the whole column, spring and shock > assy. Had to drill out the lower swing arm, to get the bigger Audi bolts > through. I like Bill's idea better, as there were/are more Audi 4000's > around for donars, and the Teutonic heratage of the cars, works well. > > As for the fronts, I lived with the droopy fronts for years until having > Spring Specialties in St Marys KS make me some new ones, giving me 300 lbs > more capacity. Cost about 120 bux I think? Forgot. Would the Audi FRONTS > fit, Bill? Or the whole thing, Shock, spindle, brake rotors etc? Sigh! I > gave AWAY a dead Audi 4000 that wouldn't run, and too rusty as a donar car! > Just never thought. > > Seeya > > Bob > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Martin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 12:58 AM > Subject: Re: probably need new shocks/springs (struts) on the VoltsRabbit, > also drilling polypro > > > > The Audi 4000 springs are on my 83 volks GTI and work just fine. > > Anybody have front springs? > > > > John > > > > > > On Apr 28, 2005, at 8:30 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > > > > > >> I'm definitely > > >> going to need part #s if I'm going to do a stock VoltsRabbit > > >> spring/shock replacement. It has also been suggested by others > > >> to try air shocks to help me dial in a flat ride stance, but I'm > > >> starting to gain the impression that air shocks are not going to > > >> be available for this vehicle, since the rears are struts. Any > > >> thoughts out there in EVDL Land? > > > > > > Audi 4000 rear springs are what you want. Go to the junk yard > > > and pick up a set. They will raise the rear about 2 inches higher than > > > stock springs. Thus, with the typical battery weight, they will > > > restore the rear to the stock height. > > > > > > They typically cost less than $50 a set at the junk yard. > > > Often you can get them for as little as $25 a pair. > > > > > > > > > _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube' > > > \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > =(___)= > > > U > > > Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com > > > > > >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---John Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The range is more like 25 miles. I mentioned 30 miles so as not to go > below 80%. If I can safely get 25 miles that would be perfect. OK, 25mi @ 280Wh/mi is 7000Wh, so a single 156V string of Optima D31s looks like it might just barely do. Someone who has actually run a set would have to confirm what their real-world capacity is though. It looks like if they can deliver at least 56Ah you'll get 25mi at 80%DOD. Another option is LiIon. I hadn't mentioned it because the up-front cost is prohibitive for most of us. The ThunderSky TS-LP9393A cells that Victor (MetricMind) sells might be a good match: 200Ah (160Ah real-world), 160A max continuous discharge, 600A peak discharge rate. You'd need 43 of them for a 156V system, which works out to about $21.5k and 520lbs. If the sticker shock hasn't already put you off, the advantages of this option include a range of about 70mi to 80%DOD and a battery pack that could be sunk into the floor of the trunk (3 rows of 11 cells and one of 10 yields a pack that is about 31" x 29" x 12" tall), or possibly even under the rear seat. The Valence Saphion U24-12FN100 is another LiIon option. This is a 12V 100Ah (C/5) battery which includes the battery management system. A 156V (13 module) pack weighs about 382lbs. You'd have to limit your max battery current to about 200A which means a battery HP limit of about 42HP. I expect cost to be similar to that of the ThunderSky pack. If the Optima D31s will meet your range requirement, then a single string of them might be the best option as you will be able to take full advantage of your 1200A controller. If you don't feel you really need all that power every day, the Concordes are probably the better option as they have more capacity and so will give longer cycle life due to shallower DOD. The lowest cost option (both initially and over time) is an 1100-1200lb pack of flooded 6V or 8V golf car batteries. 18 8V modules gets you to a respectable 144V, and provided you set your battery current limit to about 300A they should yield decent life. 18 6V modules is 108V, which is considered a bit low by today's standards, but could be perfectly acceptable depending on your needs. Of course, anything you can do to reduce your EV's energy consuption below the 280Wh/mi I've estimated will reduce the DOD and increase the feasibility of the AGM options. Cheers, Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Thanks Lee. Would there be another motor that could handle this function? From: Lee Hart: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Conceptually, if a small vehicle with 4 wheel independent suspension > were modified with an Etek at each wheel and a 192v pack with a > 'zilla 1K controller, would it have decent speed and range? The concept is sound, but the Etek is the wrong motor for the job. The fundamental problem is that the Etek cannot produce enough torque. You would burn them up before you could get enough current for long enough to climb a steep hill, or accellerate at more than a leisurely rate. A second problem is that the Etek isn't built ruggedly enough to survive long as a wheel motor. The shock and vibration loads in a wheel are tremendous, and the Etek is rather flimsily built. -- "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever has!" -- Margaret Mead -- Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I was figuring on potentially splitting the pack into 2 or 4 > parallel strings. Ah, then you need to plan on a controller per motor, not a single Z1k. > Do you know if the eteks > will be strong enough to give you the necessary oomph to pull > some of those hills in Hawaii? Highly unlikely, especially if the motors are to last any length of time. > >A design like this would rid the vehicle of all ICE components > >including drive system and the weight would be dramatically reduced > >making room for the bats in the engine compartment as well > >as the trunk for a very balanced weight ratio with a lot of room > >left over. A small car with 12-13" rims will have its wheels spinning at about 950RPM at 60mph. Assuming a typical differential ratio of 3-4:1, this means you could direct drive the differential and have the motor spinning at 2800-3800RPM (at 60mph). It would probably be much less effort to replace the rear "axle" in a small FWD car with a suitable RWD diff/axle setup and direct drive it with a more typical 8" series wound motor fed by a Z1k. You could still yank the FWD transaxle to free up space/weight capacity under the hood for batteries. There is probably negligible difference in vehicle weight in the end whether you use the FWD tranny or a RWD rear end (indeed, the rear end is probably heavier). If you went to true wheel motors, the vehicle weight *might* end up a bit less than stock, but this depends on your fabrication skill when you make the new suspecnsion components. If you mount the motors inboard, the weight probably ends up greater than simply using the original tranny since you now have 4 wheels and drivetrains to carry around. A small light car can get away with a single 58lb 6.7" ADC motor (though an 8" is more robust and fun ;^), at which point 4 ETEKs weighs *more*. The FWD tranny in a small car probably doesn't weigh much over 50lbs, so you aren't going to dramatically reduce vehicle weight by eliminating it. It also sits fairly low in the engine compartment (as does the motor), so you don't free up much space for batteries unless you are using unusually tall batteries or want to layer smaller batteries 2 deep. If you want to keep the car light and balanced then you aren't going to be cramming it full of batteries anyway (otherwise the light car becomes a heavy one and your motor power requirements just went up) and so it is not difficult to keep the car balanced by putting some batteries under the hood and some under the rear seat or in the trunk. Or, as in my conversion, put the batteries in the floor so the weight is centralised and the engine bay and trunk are kept free. For the Samurai, a more durable system is probably to use a pair of 6.7" ADC series wound motors with a Z1k configured for series/parallel switching. Hook one motor to the front driveshaft and the other to the rear. Use as high a pack voltage as you want and set the motor voltage limit as required. The K91-4003 motor (48-96V) goes for $610/ea from EV parts, so this ends up being a bit more expensive than a pair of ETEKs ($425/ea) and about the same cost as just using a single 8" ADC to direct drive the transfer case input. The lightest option is the pair of ETEKs (~42lb for the motors, no transfer case), followed by the pair of 6.7" motors at 116lb (still no transfer case), then the 8" (107lbs + transfer case if 4WD required, otherwise ditch the transfer case and drive the rear axle only). Cheers, Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I was figuring on potentially splitting the pack into 2 or 4 parallelI live near the beach in Waimanalo, so I don't need to go over the Pali. I've seen too many dead battery EV's parked on the Pali scenic look-outs to try that. DB
strings. I should have probably said 16 12v bats... was thinking out
loud... Anyway, I like your idea. The Samurai transfer case is perfect for
that. The size of these motors should fit right in place. Do you know if
the eteks will be strong enough to give you the necessary oomph to pull some
of those hills in Hawaii?
D B wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
highI had a question regarding concept for motor controller/options and Myles Twete discussed the Etek motors. This is a follow-up after looking further into the Etek specs.
Conceptually, if a small vehicle with 4 wheel independent suspension were modified with an Etek at each wheel and a 192v pack with a zilla 1K controller, would it have decent speed and range?
Based on the Etek rpm specs, the motors would not have to run at a very
Aloha All: I bought two old Suzuki Samurai jeeps (hardtop version) with a similar idea in mind. I was going to put two Eteks in the same location as the transfer case, one to power the front and one the rear. All existing drive shafts could be used. Both would be covered/protected by a shield from off road impact, but with a built in forced air fan. One is raised three inchs by springs and another two by larger tires, all batteries could fit underneath the car and in the engine compartment. I have 6 new nicads (Huey starting batteries) so I would use 2 per motor (48 Volt.) I assume you would only use 48 volt per motor, not a 192 volt pack hooked to all motors??. DBrpm (between 1000 and 1500) for highway speeds. Since each is about 8 hp would setting them up in parallel like this equate to 32 hp? That is actually a pretty good hp rating for a small vehicle.
A design like this would rid the vehicle of all ICE components including drive system and the weight would be dramatically reduced making room for the bats in the engine compartment as well as the trunk for a very balanced weight ratio with a lot of room left over.
Anyone made anything like this?
Jeff "newbie" need-to-start-grinnin Wilson
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Mike Brown (ElectroAutomotive - [EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: > At 10:07 PM 4/27/05 -0400, you wrote: > >The srsvw springs aren't for lowering, as I noted- they are for stock ride > >heights. As for stiffening: increasing the spring rate is the point, as > >the load is greatly increased. > > I'm not sure the effect would be the same. The people these springs were > intended for are tweaking handling, not adding weight. If anything, they > are probably lightening their cars. > > >I suppose if he wants, he can get the same springs as before, but it > >appears they sagged? > > We've been issuing these same springs on Voltsrabbits since 1991, this is > the first report of "sagging" we have had - and we had these on our own > Voltsrabbit, the prototype, which was driven in the mountains all that time. > > Chuck, if you have the ability to have the car down for a short time, we > could arrange to have your springs tested, to see whether they HAVE > sagged. If not, no point replacing them. Mike, the car is scheduled to be in Redwood City starting about May 22, when we are to put a new pack in the car and do other work. The plan is to have it down there till about June 4. So I could have the springs out for a few days. However, I would like to put a few cycles on those new batteries down there on the flats before I hit them with the hills back up here in Marin. I also know that one of our NBEAA members is bringing a Mustang tranny down to you for adapter plate machining, so maybe we could coordinate with him for getting the springs to/from your shop (at least one of the trips). The thunking sound I am experiencing from that corner - sounds like a worn out shock. The nut on top is tight. Could a rubber piece at the top, if there is one, collapse and lower that corner? Let me get you the numbers from my logbook: stock diesel height, then the change of ride heights down through the years. Something has settled... Will be a day or two. > > Quite a bit of engineering went into getting these springs wound to carry > the load and maintain stock ride height. The first run of springs was > three sets. When we made the next run, and sent out one set to a customer, > he complained that the car sat too high. After discussing this with the > springmaker, we found out that he had made the first three sets out of > material he had on hand, and the following sets were from new material of a > different alloy. I think this illustrates some of the problems that a > small difference can make. > > Mike Brown > > Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989 > http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979 >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---LOL I've even driven that in an ICE and had trouble trying to keep speed. -----Original Message----- From: D B [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 4:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: concept question [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >I was figuring on potentially splitting the pack into 2 or 4 parallel >strings. I should have probably said 16 12v bats... was thinking out >loud... Anyway, I like your idea. The Samurai transfer case is perfect for >that. The size of these motors should fit right in place. Do you know if >the eteks will be strong enough to give you the necessary oomph to pull some >of those hills in Hawaii? > > >D B wrote: > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > > >>I had a question regarding concept for motor controller/options and Myles >>Twete discussed the Etek motors. This is a follow-up after looking further >>into the Etek specs. >> >>Conceptually, if a small vehicle with 4 wheel independent suspension were >>modified with an Etek at each wheel and a 192v pack with a zilla 1K >>controller, would it have decent speed and range? >> >>Based on the Etek rpm specs, the motors would not have to run at a very >> >> >high > > >>rpm (between 1000 and 1500) for highway speeds. Since each is about 8 hp >>would setting them up in parallel like this equate to 32 hp? That is >>actually a pretty good hp rating for a small vehicle. >> >>A design like this would rid the vehicle of all ICE components including >>drive system and the weight would be dramatically reduced making room for >>the bats in the engine compartment as well as the trunk for a very balanced >>weight ratio with a lot of room left over. >> >>Anyone made anything like this? >> >>Jeff "newbie" need-to-start-grinnin Wilson >> >> >> >> >> >Aloha All: I bought two old Suzuki Samurai jeeps (hardtop version) >with a similar idea in mind. I was going to put two Eteks in the same >location as the transfer case, one to power the front and one the rear. >All existing drive shafts could be used. Both would be covered/protected >by a shield from off road impact, but with a built in forced air fan. >One is raised three inchs by springs and another two by larger tires, >all batteries could fit underneath the car and in the engine >compartment. I have 6 new nicads (Huey starting batteries) so I would >use 2 per motor (48 Volt.) I assume you would only use 48 volt per >motor, not a 192 volt pack hooked to all motors??. DB > > > I live near the beach in Waimanalo, so I don't need to go over the Pali. I've seen too many dead battery EV's parked on the Pali scenic look-outs to try that. DB
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Title: RE: concept questionThanks Roger!
-----Original Message-----
From: Roger Stockton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 3:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: concept question
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> I was figuring on potentially splitting the pack into 2 or 4
> parallel strings.Ah, then you need to plan on a controller per motor, not a single Z1k.
> Do you know if the eteks
> will be strong enough to give you the necessary oomph to pull
> some of those hills in Hawaii?Highly unlikely, especially if the motors are to last any length of
time.> >A design like this would rid the vehicle of all ICE components
> >including drive system and the weight would be dramatically reduced
> >making room for the bats in the engine compartment as well
> >as the trunk for a very balanced weight ratio with a lot of room
> >left over.A small car with 12-13" rims will have its wheels spinning at about
950RPM at 60mph. Assuming a typical differential ratio of 3-4:1, this
means you could direct drive the differential and have the motor
spinning at 2800-3800RPM (at 60mph).It would probably be much less effort to replace the rear "axle" in a
small FWD car with a suitable RWD diff/axle setup and direct drive it
with a more typical 8" series wound motor fed by a Z1k. You could still
yank the FWD transaxle to free up space/weight capacity under the hood
for batteries. There is probably negligible difference in vehicle
weight in the end whether you use the FWD tranny or a RWD rear end
(indeed, the rear end is probably heavier).If you went to true wheel motors, the vehicle weight *might* end up a
bit less than stock, but this depends on your fabrication skill when you
make the new suspecnsion components. If you mount the motors inboard,
the weight probably ends up greater than simply using the original
tranny since you now have 4 wheels and drivetrains to carry around. A
small light car can get away with a single 58lb 6.7" ADC motor (though
an 8" is more robust and fun ;^), at which point 4 ETEKs weighs *more*.The FWD tranny in a small car probably doesn't weigh much over 50lbs, so
you aren't going to dramatically reduce vehicle weight by eliminating
it. It also sits fairly low in the engine compartment (as does the
motor), so you don't free up much space for batteries unless you are
using unusually tall batteries or want to layer smaller batteries 2
deep. If you want to keep the car light and balanced then you aren't
going to be cramming it full of batteries anyway (otherwise the light
car becomes a heavy one and your motor power requirements just went up)
and so it is not difficult to keep the car balanced by putting some
batteries under the hood and some under the rear seat or in the trunk.
Or, as in my conversion, put the batteries in the floor so the weight is
centralised and the engine bay and trunk are kept free.For the Samurai, a more durable system is probably to use a pair of 6.7"
ADC series wound motors with a Z1k configured for series/parallel
switching. Hook one motor to the front driveshaft and the other to the
rear. Use as high a pack voltage as you want and set the motor voltage
limit as required. The K91-4003 motor (48-96V) goes for $610/ea from EV
parts, so this ends up being a bit more expensive than a pair of ETEKs
($425/ea) and about the same cost as just using a single 8" ADC to
direct drive the transfer case input. The lightest option is the pair
of ETEKs (~42lb for the motors, no transfer case), followed by the pair
of 6.7" motors at 116lb (still no transfer case), then the 8" (107lbs +
transfer case if 4WD required, otherwise ditch the transfer case and
drive the rear axle only).Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Hi All
Knowlege accumulated from this list has allowed me to be able to be a bit of an expert on DC motive power, at least in the eyes of a maintenance electrician for our biggest timber company here. This is not what would be going in a road-going EV, 100hp and 400V. The thing is driving a primary-saw carrige (so I suppose it is an EV of sorts, done 10,000,000 miles, 10 meters one way, 10 meters back!). According to the electrician it originated from a WW2 liberty ship.
This fits in with the non-electronic motor control discussions going on.
What was fascinating the way that it was controlled. The primary power for the motor was supplied by a 3-phase motor-driven generator. There used to be a small generator on the main generator, to supply the 100V field that has been replaced by a power supply.
The main generator field is reversed to reverse the output, to reverse the motor. The main generator gets its' field from an "amplidyne" (not sure how that is spelled) unit. The "amplidyne" is a 2.5hp 3-phase motor driven generator, which in turn gets its' field from a 25 watt pot!. The pot has a center tap that seems to be at zero volts, and is the park position for the throttle. Each end of the (180 degree) pot is attached to what seems to be + and -, not sure from where, probably the whole thing voltage divided off the 100VDC field generator by a collection of power resistors in the control box.
If anyone has more information, I'd be interested in knowing (not for the customer, since the reason I was there was first visit to put an electronic drive on the unit).
James Massey Launceston, Tasmania, Australia Sill trying to find time to get my conversion finished...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Roger Stockton wrote:
Aloha Hana hou: I actually bought the Etek for use on a small ATV around my neighborhood. Then we started testing it with a drone propeller to see if we could get enough thrust to fly a North Wing Trike (we couldn't). When I started planning the Samurai project it was going to be a hybrid with a single 8" ADC motor hooked to the transfer case from the original ICE drive shaft, and a 12 KW/17 HP ICE generator mounted in the original engine compartment. Once the Sammy is up to speed the ICE is engaged direct drive to what previously was the drive shaft to the front diff. This would eliminate the 4wd and would make it 2WD only, but would give free up the input shaft to the transfer case to be convereted to a ICE drive shaft. The ADC does all accelleration, but is merely crusing once the ICE is hooked up directly. The problem arose when we discovered that the transfer case could not be shifted into 4wd on-the-fly as would be required, and any sort of clutch would be too complicated. DB
For the Samurai, a more durable system is probably to use a pair of 6.7" ADC series wound motors with a Z1k configured for series/parallel switching. Hook one motor to the front driveshaft and the other to the rear. Use as high a pack voltage as you want and set the motor voltage limit as required. The K91-4003 motor (48-96V) goes for $610/ea from EV parts, so this ends up being a bit more expensive than a pair of ETEKs ($425/ea) and about the same cost as just using a single 8" ADC to direct drive the transfer case input. The lightest option is the pair of ETEKs (~42lb for the motors, no transfer case), followed by the pair of 6.7" motors at 116lb (still no transfer case), then the 8" (107lbs + transfer case if 4WD required, otherwise ditch the transfer case and drive the rear axle only).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---D B [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > When I started planning the Samurai project it was going to > be a hybrid with a single 8" ADC motor hooked to the transfer > case from the original ICE drive shaft, and a 12 KW/17 HP ICE > generator mounted in the original engine compartment. Once the > Sammy is up to speed the ICE is engaged direct drive to what > previously was the drive shaft to the front diff. This would > eliminate the 4wd and would make it 2WD only, but would give > free up the input shaft to the transfer case to be convereted > to a ICE drive shaft. The ADC does all accelleration, but is > merely crusing once the ICE is hooked up directly. The problem > arose when we discovered that the transfer case could not be > shifted into 4wd on-the-fly as would be required, and any sort > of clutch would be too complicated. An interesting thought. I'm not sure I fully understand the configuration you had in mind. I think it sounds like the ADC drive the transfer case input, and with the transfer case in 2WD, this allows electric drive of the rear wheels while the front drive shaft (connected to the 17HP ICE) freewheels at ICE speed. At speed, the transfer case is shifted to 4WD (if this were possible), which connects the ICE to the rear driveshaft (and to the ADC on the input shaft). I think an alternate would be to connect the electric motor to the front driveshaft connection of the transfer case and the ICE to the transfer case input via the original tranny and clutch. Leave the transfer case in 4WD and connect/disconnect the ICE by shifting the tranny in/out of gear. Replace the ADC 8" with a sep-ex motor (NEV-sized) since you are relying on it primarily for low-speed and or acceleration (and can always help it out with the ICE when needed), and then you can use a regen controller on it to eliminate the need for a genset on the ICE (less weight/complexity). You would lose the ability to charge while parked, but otherwise have all the functionality. Or, ditch the transfer case and insert a dual-shaft 8" to replace part of the driveshaft between the tranny output and the rear diff. With the tranny in neutral, the electric motor drives the rear wheels on its own; with the tranny in gear, the ICE and electric, or ICE alone can drive them. If you use a genset, you can charge while parked if the tranny is in neutral. If a sep-ex motor is available with dual shafts, you could substitute it for the 8" and use it as the generator, again with the limitation of not being able to charge while parked. If a dual-shaft sep-ex is not available, just mount a single shaft type alongside the output end of the tranny and use a toothed belt to connect its output to a suitable gear mounted to the tranny output flange. Not long ago ADC was clearing out some NEV-size (about 6.7") sep-ex motors that, unlike most golf-car/NEV motors, did have output end bearings and endbells. One or two of these would have been ideal. Just a few thoughts... Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---you will not have 8HP long time at 1000rpm look at motor curves ! Philippe Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ? quel carburant choisiriez-vous ? http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php ----- Original Message ----- From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 7:53 PM Subject: concept question > I had a question regarding concept for motor controller/options and Myles > Twete discussed the Etek motors. This is a follow-up after looking further > into the Etek specs. > > Conceptually, if a small vehicle with 4 wheel independent suspension were > modified with an Etek at each wheel and a 192v pack with a zilla 1K > controller, would it have decent speed and range? > > Based on the Etek rpm specs, the motors would not have to run at a very high > rpm (between 1000 and 1500) for highway speeds. Since each is about 8 hp > would setting them up in parallel like this equate to 32 hp? That is > actually a pretty good hp rating for a small vehicle. > > A design like this would rid the vehicle of all ICE components including > drive system and the weight would be dramatically reduced making room for > the bats in the engine compartment as well as the trunk for a very balanced > weight ratio with a lot of room left over. > > Anyone made anything like this? > > Jeff "newbie" need-to-start-grinnin Wilson >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---As if I wasn't already having enough with my tranny noises, I traced a scraping sound in the 8" ADC to what is likely a loose or cracked fan. Has anyone dealt with this yet? At this point, it looks like unbolting the shaft end, heating up Loctite'd bolts, and tightening or replacing it. Are there issues with pulling the shaft end that I should know about? I have experience with the _other_ end, but not that one. Have ordered a new tranny for $295 in the hopes of curing the pesky noises. Far cheaper than having it torn apart & fixed. Thanks! '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V ____ __/__|__\ __ =D-------/ - - \ 'O'-----'O'-' Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids? __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Was checking out ebay and see that there is a Citi Car up for sale http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4545438593&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---Anybody know anything about the OTC tools "Accuracy Plus" battery tester? It is a handheld meter that clips on to your battery and claims to give CCA and amp-hour capacity information in a few seconds. It seems unbelievable to me. See http://www.otctools.com/brochures/289-1.pdf for a brochure. Ken
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6472&item=4545855126&rd=1
.
Roy LeMeur [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.cloudelectric.com http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles 19428 66th Ave So, Q-101 Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380 fax: 425-251-6381 Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links: http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries: http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
