EV Digest 4324
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: batteries and range
by Jude Anthony <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Citi Car on ebay
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: instant battery tester
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: batteries and range
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Electravan inlet replacement.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Z1k wanted
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: batteries and range
by John Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: concept question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Hello from Croatia
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Citi Car on ebay
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Hello from Croatia, Stuff
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) It's ALIVE! It's ALIVE!!
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Transfer case as transmission
by "golubcu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Citi Car on ebay
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: batteries and range
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Transfer case as transmission
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: instant battery tester
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Electric Indy car on ebay
by "Mason Convey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Ni-cads, Zilla, ect!!! RE: Electric Indy car on ebay
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: instant battery tester
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Strange 3-wheeler from the film "Is Paris Burning?"
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: instant battery tester
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: instant battery tester
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Postal address
by "paulceps" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: instant battery tester
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: concept question
by Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) electric heater core questions
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Hello from Croatia
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) TdS Report #19: Photos - Short Descriptions of the 2005 Tour de Sol
Championship Entrants
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Thanks from a third party, Roger. I've been getting really concerned; I
need 26 miles of range (although my employer could have that if they'd
just stop being so <muffled> obstructionist). I've been paying close
attention to other Wh estimates, and I've been getting scared because
I'm converting a Civic Wagon. I can't find any Cd information on it, and
I'm not sure how heavy it's going to be, but I'm pretty sure it'll have
the aero drag of a small truck, and it'll be heavier that a normal Civic.
I had planned for 12 YellowTops (D31, I believe) at 75Ah nominal. Looks
like I'd better plan for a few more, or find a way to reduce my drag...
a lot. ;-)
If I drop to 120V and set up dual strings, that's 13.4Kwh. Of course, I
have no idea where I'd store that many batteries, or how I'd modify the
brakes and suspension. Rats.
I'd better have another go at my employer. Maybe they'll be more pliant
when they see I actually own the car.
Jude
John Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The range is more like 25 miles. I mentioned 30 miles so as not to go
below 80%. If I can safely get 25 miles that would be perfect.
OK, 25mi @ 280Wh/mi is 7000Wh, so a single 156V string of Optima D31s
looks like it might just barely do. Someone who has actually run a set
would have to confirm what their real-world capacity is though. It
looks like if they can deliver at least 56Ah you'll get 25mi at 80%DOD.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Heck of a deal if you like citicars. LR.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 5:25 PM
Subject: Citi Car on ebay
Was checking out ebay and see that there is a Citi Car up for sale
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4545438593&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
Rush
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ken if thats the same one a friend was mentioning it has a few operator
failure modes. He has a battery store and a few places grabbed these to test
thier batts.
Problem is they are just clipping them onto what ever it there not just the
bare
post. So the result gets skewed by the resistence of the metals or corrosion
etc.
He had people call up and say that thier new battery was testing no good and
what
was up (PG version). Needless to say when he tested the bateries using his
tester and using this one by the book the batteries were perfect.
Dave
-> -----Original Message-----
-> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-> Behalf Of Ken Olum
-> Sent: April 29, 2005 5:57 PM
-> To: [email protected]
-> Subject: instant battery tester
->
->
-> Anybody know anything about the OTC tools "Accuracy Plus" battery
-> tester? It is a handheld meter that clips on to your battery and
-> claims to give CCA and amp-hour capacity information in a few seconds.
-> It seems unbelievable to me. See
-> http://www.otctools.com/brochures/289-1.pdf
-> for a brochure.
->
-> Ken
->
->
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Martin wrote:
> I'm converting an 83 Rabbit GTI. how many batteries can get me there.
How many can you fit in it?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have an Electravan with the orginal 4 prong inlet with a safety in the
middle. Anybody recommend a replacement for this. I have three prong but
this application calls for 4 connectors. It is a twist lock. Ideas? The
problem is the male recessed connector.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone has a Z1K-EHV in good shape for sale, please let me know.
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Roger
I'm going to go for the Optima D31s at 156 volts.
John
On Apr 29, 2005, at 1:06 PM, Roger Stockton wrote:
John Martin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The range is more like 25 miles. I mentioned 30 miles so as not to go
below 80%. If I can safely get 25 miles that would be perfect.
OK, 25mi @ 280Wh/mi is 7000Wh, so a single 156V string of Optima D31s
looks like it might just barely do. Someone who has actually run a set
would have to confirm what their real-world capacity is though. It
looks like if they can deliver at least 56Ah you'll get 25mi at 80%DOD.
Another option is LiIon. I hadn't mentioned it because the up-front
cost is prohibitive for most of us. The ThunderSky TS-LP9393A cells
that Victor (MetricMind) sells might be a good match: 200Ah (160Ah
real-world), 160A max continuous discharge, 600A peak discharge rate.
You'd need 43 of them for a 156V system, which works out to about
$21.5k
and 520lbs. If the sticker shock hasn't already put you off, the
advantages of this option include a range of about 70mi to 80%DOD and a
battery pack that could be sunk into the floor of the trunk (3 rows of
11 cells and one of 10 yields a pack that is about 31" x 29" x 12"
tall), or possibly even under the rear seat.
The Valence Saphion U24-12FN100 is another LiIon option. This is a 12V
100Ah (C/5) battery which includes the battery management system. A
156V (13 module) pack weighs about 382lbs. You'd have to limit your
max
battery current to about 200A which means a battery HP limit of about
42HP. I expect cost to be similar to that of the ThunderSky pack.
If the Optima D31s will meet your range requirement, then a single
string of them might be the best option as you will be able to take
full
advantage of your 1200A controller.
If you don't feel you really need all that power every day, the
Concordes are probably the better option as they have more capacity and
so will give longer cycle life due to shallower DOD.
The lowest cost option (both initially and over time) is an 1100-1200lb
pack of flooded 6V or 8V golf car batteries. 18 8V modules gets you to
a respectable 144V, and provided you set your battery current limit to
about 300A they should yield decent life. 18 6V modules is 108V, which
is considered a bit low by today's standards, but could be perfectly
acceptable depending on your needs.
Of course, anything you can do to reduce your EV's energy consuption
below the 280Wh/mi I've estimated will reduce the DOD and increase the
feasibility of the AGM options.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> Thanks Lee.
>
> Would there be another motor that could handle this function?
I'm not aware of any true wheel motors that are available for
on-the-road EVs. The few that exists are either very expensive
"unobtainium" or handmade prototypes.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All, I am currently in Croatia looking for a
European location to expand distribution of our products to this side of the
planet to better serve our customers here. I will give A detailed report on
electric vehicles here or the lack thereof when I return at the end of next
week.
Roderick Wilde
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.11.0 - Release Date: 4/29/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It IS in Tucson Rush. Might be a great toy for you, and you could drive it
home! I would like to grab the strippo cheap if that was going seperately
and cheep, always need spare parts for mine. TTYL David Chapman.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rush" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 5:25 PM
Subject: Citi Car on ebay
> Was checking out ebay and see that there is a Citi Car up for sale
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4545438593&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT
>
> Rush
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 2:14 AM
Subject: Hello from Croatia
> Hello All, I am currently in Croatia looking for a
> European location to expand distribution of our products to this side of
the
> planet to better serve our customers here. I will give A detailed report
on
> electric vehicles here or the lack thereof when I return at the end of
next
> week.
>
> Roderick Wilde
>
> Hi Rod an' All;
Great! Take lottsa pix and show the Woodburn, an' Gone Postal, stuff!
Never has an issue EV's been a more important world thing. The "it's a Small
World" tune runs through my mind. Ya know the tune they play at Dizzy World?
It IS a small, warming, world, folks all over may be interested in your
wares. I hope so?
Have Fun!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FINALLY! The lights went on and can be controlled by my Curtis 1204.
I called Curtis yesterday and I spoke to their head tech man. When I
described what I had, even he was surprised.
He indicated that Curtis had built some oddball controllers some time back
for special applications.
What was unusual was the fact that this particular model had voltage
throttle and resistor type lug arrangement.
Imagine my luck getting 2 such beasts from 2 sources. I sent one back
because "It was DOA". Both 1204's were represented as conventional golf
cart controllers.
Luck, stubborn perseverance, and kind words from this forum got the lights
glowing (and dimming).
The 10K pot goes like this:
One end to ground.
Other end to terminal #3
Slider to terminal #2
FWIW A 10k pot will work in both versions depending whether you use it as a
variable resistor or as a variable voltage divider. Use 10k instead or 5k
because in many cases 5k is not full throttle. It also makes for a more
'sensitive' throttle if that is your wish YMMV.
I now have no excuse to go on with my brazing.
BTW and FWIW I am in the market for a used (cheap) respiratory Oxygen
concentrator for brazing. I am switching from Oxy/Acet to Oxy/Pro for
convenience of refill, etc. It is an hour to my gas supplier and it will
only be 5 minutes for propane and 2 seconds to the Oxy on/off switch.
Gratefully,
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is there an advantage to using this device?
They are expensive, but wouldn't they increase your range?
You'd still need the transmission?
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Christopher Robison"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was checking out the US Gear underdrive recently. I had my
hopes up
> that this might be workable for a lot of folks. Then I read about
what
> you have to do to shift it. Flip the switch, wait two seconds,
let off
> the throttle, <CLUNK!>, then back on. Doesn't sound very
convenient or
> intuitive.
>
> Then again, they claim it's really tough .. If you're patient,
and don't
> lend your car out to others to drive very often, it might be worth
it.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> Ryan Stotts said:
> > I just now found out about this one.
> >
> > Is this what you remember?
> >
> > http://www.usgear.com/dual_range.htm
> >
> > Or:
> >
> > http://www.usgear.com/v2od.htm
> >
> >
> >
> > On 4/1/05:
> >> Rush wrote:
> >> > I remember from
> >> > my RVing days that there is an aftermarket hi gear that can
be added
> >> to the
> >> > rear differential. I've been googling for it, but can't find
it. Does
> >> any
> >> > body know what I am referring to and a link to the site?
> >>
> >> This is the only product I know of that sounds like what you are
> >> describing. It connects to the transmission though instead of
the
> >> differential:
> >>
> >> http://www.gearvendors.com/
> >>
> >> On the bottom of this page though, they do mention "Electric
Vehicles
> >> Racing"!
> >>
> >> http://www.gearvendors.com/racing.html
> >>
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My trip to Tucson is about 35 miles, don't think the car would do a round
trip...
thanks anyway... <G>
Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman"
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 11:26 PM
Subject: Re: Citi Car on ebay
> It IS in Tucson Rush. Might be a great toy for you, and you could drive it
> home! I would like to grab the strippo cheap if that was going seperately
> and cheep, always need spare parts for mine. TTYL David Chapman.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The 9" motor in a VW rabbit range guru is Bob Rice. He has one STUFFED
with flooded batteries. He can go something like 70 miles?
Personally, if you want to go 30 miles I think you need more capacity
than a 156V string of D31s. They will work fine for a while, but
without headroom as soon as you lose any range, then the car cannot do
its primary task. So I would say you need more capacity as a buffer.
Where do you live, how hilly is it and how cold does it get?
Seth
On Apr 28, 2005, at 7:21 PM, John Martin wrote:
Hi folks
I'm converting an 83 Rabbit GTI. I have an ADC 9 inch motor and I will
soon have a 1200 Raptor running about 156 volts.. I need a range of 30
miles or more. What and how many batteries can get me there.
Thanks in advance.
John Martin
JFM Digital Imaging
415-472-4482
www.jfmdigital.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "golubcu"
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 7:23 AM
Subject: Re: Transfer case as transmission
> Is there an advantage to using this device?
> They are expensive, but wouldn't they increase your range?
> You'd still need the transmission?
Chris,
What I was going to do was take the transmisson out, reverse the rear axle,
attach the transfer case to it so that I would have 2 gears and then attach the
motor, all behind the rear axle. I was also think of putting in an independant
rear suspension. I would eliminate the weight of the transmission/axle and make
more room for the batteries behind the cab where the axle was.
I could have picked one up here in the tucson junk yards for about $200, but
never got a good idea of the kind or gear ratio's that I would need.
In anycase for my first conversion it is too complicated and so I'm going to
keep the transmission, attach the motor to it like everybody else does.
Rush
Tucson AZ
converting an '86 Mitsubishi
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure it works. A reputable company like OTC wouldn't be selling it if
it didn't.
Several papers on this analysis method have been published, mainly as
SAE papers.
One could go to the patent office, usgpo.gov and look up the relevant
patents for more info. In fact, entering the term "OTC" in the
"assignee" blank will return a fascinating list of automotive-related
patents.
That list yet again shows what is so wrong with the current
rubber-stamp method of issuing patents. Note one of the patents is
for an optical reflective tachometer, a device that has been around at
least since the 40s.
John
On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:57:23 -0400, Ken Olum
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Anybody know anything about the OTC tools "Accuracy Plus" battery
>tester? It is a handheld meter that clips on to your battery and
>claims to give CCA and amp-hour capacity information in a few seconds.
>It seems unbelievable to me. See http://www.otctools.com/brochures/289-1.pdf
>for a brochure.
>
> Ken
>
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems to be the month to sell electric formula cars. Here's another one
for sale...
http://www.phoenixeaa.com/classifieds/050420/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of SouthwestAuctions
Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Electric Indy car on ebay
I apoplogize for using the list to advertise, but I hope someone out there
will be interested in taking a look at this car. eBay auction will go live
about 10:15 a.m. This morning (Friday) Pacific Standard Time. If any of you
have any questions, you are welcomed to direct them to me at my email
address or through the list.
The eBay item # is 4546478530 You can access it after it starts by
typing that number into the search box at ebay.com Go have a look and tell
me what you think of the car and the ad.
Thanks again for the bandwidth,
-Andrew G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mason and All,
--- Mason Convey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It seems to be the month to sell electric formula
> cars. Here's another one
> for sale...
>
> http://www.phoenixeaa.com/classifieds/050420/
Now that's a steal with a Zilla, 2 -8" ADC's,
Ni-cad batt packs, maybe 2 sets of them, Porsche
transaxle!!!
For $10k, someone should jump on that just for the
parts, then sell the chassis!!!!
Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of SouthwestAuctions
> Sent: Friday, April 29, 2005 9:02 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Electric Indy car on ebay
>
> I apoplogize for using the list to advertise, but I
> hope someone out there
> will be interested in taking a look at this car.
> eBay auction will go live
> about 10:15 a.m. This morning (Friday) Pacific
> Standard Time. If any of you
> have any questions, you are welcomed to direct them
> to me at my email
> address or through the list.
> The eBay item # is 4546478530 You can access it
> after it starts by
> typing that number into the search box at ebay.com
> Go have a look and tell
> me what you think of the car and the ad.
>
> Thanks again for the bandwidth,
> -Andrew G.
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Humm... How would you know it works? Have you
verified one with results from a real battery capacity
tester? Well, I have.
About two years ago, Clare Bell and I compared results
from an $800 so called "instant battery tester" and my
tester. We tested multiple old batteries. The
results were almost totally in reversed. Those tested
to be at low capacity on my tester showed to have high
CCA, low internal resistance, and high capacity on the
$800 fancy tester.
I have tested many batteries and logged the voltages
during testing. I think it might be possible to guess
the battery capacity from the voltage drop and
recovery slop. But, this is highly dependent on
battery types, battery temperature, age, and, how long
the battery has been sitting. If you have control
over these, it might be possible. As an example, we
all know that pack voltage tends to drop significantly
in the morning before it recovers after driving for a
few blocks. So, the voltage curve and slop would be
significantly different before and after driving a
only few blocks.
There is simply no short-cuts to test battery
capacity.
Ed Ang
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sure it works. A reputable company like OTC
> wouldn't be selling it if
> it didn't.
>
> Several papers on this analysis method have been
> published, mainly as
> SAE papers.
>
> One could go to the patent office, usgpo.gov and
> look up the relevant
> patents for more info. In fact, entering the term
> "OTC" in the
> "assignee" blank will return a fascinating list of
> automotive-related
> patents.
>
> That list yet again shows what is so wrong with the
> current
> rubber-stamp method of issuing patents. Note one of
> the patents is
> for an optical reflective tachometer, a device that
> has been around at
> least since the 40s.
>
> John
>
> On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:57:23 -0400, Ken Olum
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Anybody know anything about the OTC tools "Accuracy
> Plus" battery
> >tester? It is a handheld meter that clips on to
> your battery and
> >claims to give CCA and amp-hour capacity
> information in a few seconds.
> >It seems unbelievable to me. See
> http://www.otctools.com/brochures/289-1.pdf
> >for a brochure.
> >
> > Ken
> >
>
> ---
> John De Armond
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Re: Strange 3-wheeler from the film "Is Paris Burning?"
Dave and all,
I believe this is an Arzens Egg, designed by French artist and train
designer Paul Arzens. It is aluminum, with really big plexiglass doors
and windshield, both curved. It was a trike, rear wheel drive, ELECTRIC.
Sad that it was only a prototype. It still exists.
Best regards,
Rik
David Richoux wrote:
Hi all,
I was watching a DVD of "Is Paris Burning?" the other day and noticed a
strange, small, streamlined 3-wheeler in the opening credit film
montage. I suppose this was footage actually taken in WW2 Paris during
the occupation but I cannot be sure.
There was only a view from the rear quarter, but it looks like it could
have held two passengers side by side. I took a screen shot of the car
and posted it to the Arcane Photo area - it is labeled "arcane french
car."
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is like trying to determine if a person could
complete a marathon by asking him/her to run 50 feet
then measure the heart rate, blood pressure, breathing
etc. These are dependent on each person and the
activity before taking the test. Without letting the
person try, you will never know if he/she could
complete the course.
Ed Ang
--- Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Humm... How would you know it works? Have you
> verified one with results from a real battery
> capacity
> tester? Well, I have.
>
> About two years ago, Clare Bell and I compared
> results
> from an $800 so called "instant battery tester" and
> my
> tester. We tested multiple old batteries. The
> results were almost totally in reversed. Those
> tested
> to be at low capacity on my tester showed to have
> high
> CCA, low internal resistance, and high capacity on
> the
> $800 fancy tester.
>
> I have tested many batteries and logged the voltages
> during testing. I think it might be possible to
> guess
> the battery capacity from the voltage drop and
> recovery slop. But, this is highly dependent on
> battery types, battery temperature, age, and, how
> long
> the battery has been sitting. If you have control
> over these, it might be possible. As an example, we
> all know that pack voltage tends to drop
> significantly
> in the morning before it recovers after driving for
> a
> few blocks. So, the voltage curve and slop would be
> significantly different before and after driving a
> only few blocks.
>
> There is simply no short-cuts to test battery
> capacity.
>
> Ed Ang
>
> --- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sure it works. A reputable company like OTC
> > wouldn't be selling it if
> > it didn't.
> >
> > Several papers on this analysis method have been
> > published, mainly as
> > SAE papers.
> >
> > One could go to the patent office, usgpo.gov and
> > look up the relevant
> > patents for more info. In fact, entering the term
> > "OTC" in the
> > "assignee" blank will return a fascinating list of
> > automotive-related
> > patents.
> >
> > That list yet again shows what is so wrong with
> the
> > current
> > rubber-stamp method of issuing patents. Note one
> of
> > the patents is
> > for an optical reflective tachometer, a device
> that
> > has been around at
> > least since the 40s.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:57:23 -0400, Ken Olum
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Anybody know anything about the OTC tools
> "Accuracy
> > Plus" battery
> > >tester? It is a handheld meter that clips on to
> > your battery and
> > >claims to give CCA and amp-hour capacity
> > information in a few seconds.
> > >It seems unbelievable to me. See
> > http://www.otctools.com/brochures/289-1.pdf
> > >for a brochure.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam
> protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 30 Apr 2005 09:43:39 -0700 (PDT), Edward Ang
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Humm... How would you know it works? Have you
>verified one with results from a real battery capacity
>tester? Well, I have.
>
>About two years ago, Clare Bell and I compared results
>from an $800 so called "instant battery tester" and my
>tester. We tested multiple old batteries. The
>results were almost totally in reversed. Those tested
>to be at low capacity on my tester showed to have high
>CCA, low internal resistance, and high capacity on the
>$800 fancy tester.
Fascinating that you'd tar all battery testers with your experience
with one model. OTC is, IMHO, the best of the automotive analyzer
manufacturers.
My experience is the opposite of yours. I've had the opportunity to
"lightly test" (translate: borrow an OTC instrument from my friend the
NAPA dealer and apply it to the various batteries I have laying around
the shop and then compare the results to my battery discharge tester)
a few batteries. The results agreed well enough with my carbon pile
and battery discharge tester that I was satisfied.
I, of course, have no idea what any other brand tester does.
John
---
John De Armond
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John, hope this gets through. I had to send it via the Yahoo
archive becuase I didn't have your address on this comptuer.
48 Shakespeare Road
Luton
Bedfordshire
LU4 0HS
UK
Paul Compton
www.sciroccoev.co.uk
www.morini-mania.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
there is impedance test which say if a batterie is healthy or dead BUT you
need new batteries data to compare.
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 6:43 PM
Subject: Re: instant battery tester
> Humm... How would you know it works? Have you
> verified one with results from a real battery capacity
> tester? Well, I have.
>
> About two years ago, Clare Bell and I compared results
> from an $800 so called "instant battery tester" and my
> tester. We tested multiple old batteries. The
> results were almost totally in reversed. Those tested
> to be at low capacity on my tester showed to have high
> CCA, low internal resistance, and high capacity on the
> $800 fancy tester.
>
> I have tested many batteries and logged the voltages
> during testing. I think it might be possible to guess
> the battery capacity from the voltage drop and
> recovery slop. But, this is highly dependent on
> battery types, battery temperature, age, and, how long
> the battery has been sitting. If you have control
> over these, it might be possible. As an example, we
> all know that pack voltage tends to drop significantly
> in the morning before it recovers after driving for a
> few blocks. So, the voltage curve and slop would be
> significantly different before and after driving a
> only few blocks.
>
> There is simply no short-cuts to test battery
> capacity.
>
> Ed Ang
>
> --- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Sure it works. A reputable company like OTC
> > wouldn't be selling it if
> > it didn't.
> >
> > Several papers on this analysis method have been
> > published, mainly as
> > SAE papers.
> >
> > One could go to the patent office, usgpo.gov and
> > look up the relevant
> > patents for more info. In fact, entering the term
> > "OTC" in the
> > "assignee" blank will return a fascinating list of
> > automotive-related
> > patents.
> >
> > That list yet again shows what is so wrong with the
> > current
> > rubber-stamp method of issuing patents. Note one of
> > the patents is
> > for an optical reflective tachometer, a device that
> > has been around at
> > least since the 40s.
> >
> > John
> >
> > On Fri, 29 Apr 2005 20:57:23 -0400, Ken Olum
> > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > >Anybody know anything about the OTC tools "Accuracy
> > Plus" battery
> > >tester? It is a handheld meter that clips on to
> > your battery and
> > >claims to give CCA and amp-hour capacity
> > information in a few seconds.
> > >It seems unbelievable to me. See
> > http://www.otctools.com/brochures/289-1.pdf
> > >for a brochure.
> > >
> > > Ken
> > >
> >
> > ---
> > John De Armond
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > http://www.johngsbbq.com
> > Cleveland, Occupied TN
> >
> >
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:06 PM 4/29/05 -0700, Lee wrote:
I'm not aware of any true wheel motors that are available for
on-the-road EVs. The few that exists are either very expensive
"unobtainium" or handmade prototypes.
Can some of you here take a look at this web site and tell me
what you think? These are small hub motors for scooters and electric
bicycles . . . but some of them go up to 2000 watts:
http://www.crystalyte.com/
I'm very interested in finding some low speed, high torque hub motors for a
small, golf cart sized vehicle.
Also, thanks everyone for help sourcing my contactors - I managed to find
them on the shelf at my local golf cart store after all.
Best, Duncan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am planning on replacing the stock heater core with an electric
resistive heater core in my pick-up conversion project and I have a few
questions.
I would like to keep the stock heater core for use as a radiator in a
Zilla cooling system. What materials have others used to make a "case"
for the heater element?
Also, a while back someone posted a message about cutting a hole in the
firewall to provide access to the heater core without having to remove
the dash.
Are there any downsides to doing this?
What would be the recommended tool to make the cut?
Thanks
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roderick Wilde wrote:
> Hello All, I am currently in Croatia looking for a
> European location to expand distribution of our products to this side of the
> planet to better serve our customers here.
Your situation reminds me a bit of this one:
http://www.km289.com/history.shtml
Amazing looking car:
http://www.kirkhammotorsports.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #19: Photos - Short Descriptions of the 2005 Tour de Sol
Championship Entrants
Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_006.html
Short Descriptions of the 2005 Tour de Sol Championship Entrants
Entrants in the Sustainable Energy and Transportation Festival and Competition
CATEGORY: HYBRID & ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES
<P>
Production Division: Light Duty Vehicles
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: 2004 Civic GX
Team Name: American Honda Motor Company
Demonstration Vehicle: 2004 Honda Civic GX
ICE: Compressed Natural Gas (CNG)
</PRE>
<P>
American Honda is pleased to continue offering the Natural Gas fueled
Civic GX; named "Cleanest Production Vehicle on Earth" for the 3rd
consecutive year by the ACEEE. The Civic GX offers a 20-30% fuel
savings, using domestically produced CNG, with a range of 210-240
miles per fillup. Honda continues to support CNG as the "Pathway to
Hydrogen." Honda will be exhibiting the hydrogen fueled FCX that is
currently being demonstrated by the NYS OGS; as well as the Honda
Hybrids, including the Insight, Civic and Accord.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: FCX
Demonstration Vehicle: Honda FCX
Electric: Hydrogen Fuel Cell
</PRE>
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: 2004 Civic Hybrid
Demonstration Vehicle: 2004 Honda Civic Hybrid
HEV: Gasoline + Battery
</PRE>
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: 2003 Insight
Demonstration Vehicle: 2003 Honda Insight
HEV: Gasoline + Battery
</PRE>
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: 2005 Honda Accord
Demonstration Vehicle: 2005 Honda Hybrid Accord
HEV: Gasoline + Battery
</PRE>
CATEGORY: HYBRID & ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Bio SMART (2005 SMART)
Vehicle Number: 10
Team Name: Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ)
Providence: Quebec, Canada
ICE: Biodiesel (B20)
</PRE>
The Quebec Advanced Transportation Institute (ITAQ) team wants to
demonstrate a fun to drive eco-friendly car. The SMART is a production
vehicle which, when powered with biofuels, can deliver substantial
reductions in climate change emissions and air quality improvements.
Quebec hosts one the largest biodiesel producers in North America
using feedstock mainly from recycled source and this is an important
R&D niche for the ITAQ.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: S&S AutoSport Prius
Vehicle Number: 70
Team Name: S&S AutoSport
State: Kansas
ICE: 2000 Toyota Prius, Gasoline + Battery
</PRE>
This is the 5th year for this 2000 classic Prius to compete in the
Tour de Sol. The vehicle has been trouble free for 60,000 miles and
delivers a consistent 45 mpg in daily driving. The owner is a faculty
co-advisor to the University of Tulsa's Hurricane Motor Works HEV team
that has built 3 hybrids since 1993 and has competed in the Tour de
Sol for 7 years.
<PRE>
Team Name: Toyota Motor Sales, USA
Demonstration Vehicle: 2005 Lexus RS 400h
HEV: Gasoline + Panasonic NMH
</PRE>
Toyota is committed to environmental responsibility through the design
and development of cleaner and more fuel-efficient vehicles. We will
continue to focus on developing innovative and practical technologies
with minimal impact on the environment.
<PRE>
Team Name: Toyota Motor Sales, USA
Demonstration Vehicle: 2005 Highlander
HEV: Gasoline + Panasonic NMH
</PRE>
<PRE>
Vehicle Number: 12 Vogelbilt
2004 Ford F250 diesel pick-up
ICE: Biodiesel (B100)
Team Name: Vogelbilt
</PRE>
This year Vogelbilt is using 100% renewable energy in a new 2004 Ford
F250 6.0L Diesel. This truck has been modified for increased fuel
economy and also has a generator on the engine PTO to produce
electricity.
Additionally, Vogelbilt's electric motorcycle will be on display during the
Tour de Sol.
The motorcycle was part of the Eco Trekker TV series.
CATEGORY: HYBRID & ALTERNATIVE FUEL VEHICLES
<P>
INDEPENDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
<PRE>
Team Name: Valence Technology, Inc.
</PRE>
Powered by the Valence U-Charge* Power System, this concept plug-in
hybrid electric vehicle (PHEV) is a fully functional concept car based
on a 2004 Toyota Prius that was modified by EnergyCS. Because the
Valence battery offers much more energy than batteries traditionally
used in hybrid vehicles, it allows significant amounts of
zero-emission driving and fuel efficiencies of 120-180 mpg.
STUDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Hybrid Attack
Vehicle Number: 2
Team Name: West Philly EV Team (High School)
State: Pennsylvania
HEV: kit car conversion, Biodiesel + Battery PbA
</PRE>
The West Philadelphia High School Electric Vehicle Team is returning
for its fifth Tour de Sol. This years vehicle, named "The Hybrid
Attack", has been a two year project. This hybrid "super-car" has over
300 hp and achieves more than 50 mpg. The front wheels are driven by
an AC propulsion electric motor and the rear wheels are driven by a
Volkswagen TDi burning biodiesel.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Viking 32
Vehicle Number: 32
Team Name: Western Washington University Hybrid Club
State: Washington
HEV: Purpose-built, Bio-methane (CNG) + Panasonic NMH
</PRE>
With funding from the U.S. Federal Highway Administration, students
and faculty at Western Washington University's Vehicle Research
Institute built Viking 32 to demonstrate the first automotive use of
carbon-fiber Viking 32 offers survivable front impact protection at
up to 80 kph. In addition, side impact and roof strength exceed
United States Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Viking 23
Vehicle Number: 23
Team Name: Western Washington University Hybrid Club
State: Washington
HEV: Purpose Built, Biodiesel + SAFT NMH
</PRE>
Viking 23 is designed and built by students and staff at the Vehicle
Research Institute at Western Washington University. In 1990 a new
body was designed by students and built out of carbon fiber. It uses
Biodiesel a renewable fuel for its IC Diahatsu engine which powers the
rear wheels. The front wheels are powered by a brushless DC UQN motor
thus giving it 4 wheel drive.
CATEGORY: BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
<P>
INDEPENDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Maya 100
Vehicle Number: 19
Team Name: Electrovaya
Providence: Ontario, CA
Electric: 2002 Tracker conversion, Battery: Electrovaya LiIon
</PRE>
Electrovaya has developed a long-range, ultra-safe, low cost
zero-emission electric vehicle drivetrain based upon its proprietary
Lithium-Ion SuperPolymer� battery technology and several unique system
designs. Showcased in a 5-passenger compact SUV, it solves the
Achilles heel of electric vehicles with a range of up to 230miles.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: The Olympian
Vehicle Number: 16
Team Name: Burlington County Electechs
State: New Jersey
Electric: (Battery: GNB PbA)
</PRE>
"The Burlington County Electechs" includes students and instructors
from Burlington County Institute of Technology (BCIT) and Burlington
County College (BCC.) They are entering the Olympian, an electric
vehicle recently donated by Cinnaminson High School. The team is
committed to preparing students for vocations in the high tech
automotive and related industries, including the economic, social, and
heath related benefits of greener transportation.
CATEGORY: BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
<P>
STUDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: The Lorax
Vehicle Number: 45
Team Name: Methacton Electric Car Club
State: Pennsylvania
Electric: 1999 "Lomax" kit car conversion, (Battery: Optima PbA)
</PRE>
The Methacton Electric Car Club is made up of males and females
ranging from 9th to 12th grades. Our mission is to explore alternative
energy resources one car at a time while providing hands-on learning
about alternate power sources for science, engineering, and trade
students and the general public. In addition to building a vehicle the
team created computer generated fundraising materials, and community
outreach.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Woodstock
Vehicle Number: 56
Team Name: St. Mark's Electric Vehicle Club
State: Massachusetts
1994 Ford Ranger conversion
Electric: (Battery: Trojan PbA)
</PRE>
"Woodstock" is a true zero emission vehicle. It runs on 100% renewable
electricity! This yellow 1994 Ranger was converted to run on battery
power by high school students at St. Mark's School. Woodstock's
batteries recharge overnight with wind-generated electricity from the
grid. Built by physics students, the project gives them an opportunity
to explore what engineering would be like, and the importance of
efficiency.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Sola Rola
Vehicle Number: 50
Team Name: Tandem Friends School
State: Virginia
Electric: (Battery: Optima PbA)
</PRE>
The Tandem Friends Schools vehicle is a single person, solar charged
commuter car. It was designed and built by the 16 students of the
Conceptual Physics class. The hope is that involvement in a
far-reaching project such as this will facilitate learning the basics
concepts of physics.
<P>
(No photo yet.)
CATEGORY: BATTERY ELECTRIC VEHICLES
<P>
STUDENT DIVISION: light duty vehicles
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Phantom Sol
Vehicle Number: 66
Team Name: U. Maine Solar Vehicle Team
State: Maine
Electric: Purpose-built (Solar + Battery: Trojan PbA)
</PRE>
The Phantom Sol was created in 2001 to dispell the myths that electric
vehicles are impractical, weak, expensive and not much fun to
drive. Originally a GMC-S15 pickup, this car has been drastically
re-engineered to produce an economical and powerful vehicle with
exceptional performance and sleek appearance.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Revolution Ride
Vehicle Number: 53
Team Name: www.revolutionride.org
State: Maine
Electric: 1986 VW Wagon conversion (Battery: PbA)
</PRE>
Since 2002, when students from Maine's smallest public high school put
their Vanagon Syncro electric vehicle on the road, the van has become
an indispensable daily driver and teaching tool for the school. The
4wd, 7 passenger van is charged by a 5.2kW net-metering photovoltaic
array.
CATEGORY: SOLAR-ASSISTED ELECTRIC VEHICLES
<P>
STUDENT DIVISION: one-person light duty vehicles
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Sunpacer
Vehicle Number: 92
Team Name: Cato-Meridian High School Technology Team
State: New York
Electric: 1992 Purpose-built (Solar + Battery: Ovonic NMH)
</PRE>
Since 1992 the SunPacer has participated in the Tour de Sol every
year, and captured first place in the One-person Solar category 10
times. This student engineering project aims to improve vehicle
efficiency each year. It presently has a range of 80 miles, top speed
of 60 mph., and a demonstrated efficiency of 218 miles per equivalent
gallon of gasoline.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Zodiac
Vehicle Number: 7
Team Name: IHS Solar Car Team - W. Irondequoit High School
State: New York
Electric: 1999 Purpose-built, (Solar + Battery: Trojan PbA)
</PRE>
The Zodiac has been going strong for five years thanks to the
commitment dedication and countless man hours poured into the
vehicle. Through previous competitions we have proven our skills and
and hope to wow the competition this year.
<PRE>
Vehicle Name: Solar Black Bear
Vehicle Number: 20
Team Name: U. Maine Solar Vehicle Team
State: Maine
Electric: 1986 Chevy S-10 conversion, (Solar + Battery: Trojan PbA)
</PRE>
The Solar Black Bear was created in the spring of 1999 and has been
the Light-duty two-person Solar Commuter Champion for 6 years. The
Solar Black Bear is a very practical and usable vehicle that
demonstrates the team's enthusiasm and commitment to creating a better
tomorrow for today.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
