EV Digest 4326
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: big DC motor
by "Ben Haines" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: concept question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
by "Dean Thompson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: big DC motor
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 4 prong connector
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: An AC style "bypass"?
by "Ben Haines" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
by "Claudio Natoli" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Finding the right springs (was: probably need new shocks/springs...)
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Brake Lines
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 4 prong connector
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: electric heater core questions
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: electric heater core questions
by "John O'Connor" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: concept question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Re: Brake Lines
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: electric heater core questions
by Mike Chancey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) possible DCP controller issue - help
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: electric heater core questions
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: concept question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: concept question
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
by Brian Hay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: electric heater core questions
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: possible DCP controller issue - help
by Steven Ciciora <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
James,
I'm trying to build an EV in Sydney Australia but having trouble to find
suppliers in australia. DO you or anybody else have any contacts of
suppliers?
Thanks
Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Saturday, 30 April 2005 9:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: OT: big DC motor
Hi All
Knowlege accumulated from this list has allowed me to be able to be a
bit
of an expert on DC motive power, at least in the eyes of a maintenance
electrician for our biggest timber company here. This is not what would
be
going in a road-going EV, 100hp and 400V. The thing is driving a
primary-saw carrige (so I suppose it is an EV of sorts, done 10,000,000
miles, 10 meters one way, 10 meters back!). According to the electrician
it
originated from a WW2 liberty ship.
This fits in with the non-electronic motor control discussions going on.
What was fascinating the way that it was controlled. The primary power
for
the motor was supplied by a 3-phase motor-driven generator. There used
to
be a small generator on the main generator, to supply the 100V field
that
has been replaced by a power supply.
The main generator field is reversed to reverse the output, to reverse
the
motor. The main generator gets its' field from an "amplidyne" (not sure
how
that is spelled) unit. The "amplidyne" is a 2.5hp 3-phase motor driven
generator, which in turn gets its' field from a 25 watt pot!. The pot
has a
center tap that seems to be at zero volts, and is the park position for
the
throttle. Each end of the (180 degree) pot is attached to what seems to
be
+ and -, not sure from where, probably the whole thing voltage divided
+ off
the 100VDC field generator by a collection of power resistors in the
control box.
If anyone has more information, I'd be interested in knowing (not for
the
customer, since the reason I was there was first visit to put an
electronic
drive on the unit).
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
Sill trying to find time to get my conversion finished...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Duncan Orthner wrote:
> Can some of you here take a look at this web site and tell me
> what you think? These are small hub motors for scooters and
> electric bicycles . . . but some of them go up to 2000 watts:
>
> http://www.crystalyte.com/
I know nothing about these motors in particular. However, most appear to
be good for a few hundred watts, which is less than 1/2 HP. The small
physical size and lack of cooling means that while they could produce a
peak of 2000 watts, it's unlikely they could do so for more than a few
minutes.
> I'm very interested in finding some low speed, high torque hub
> motors for a small, golf cart sized vehicle.
Check with Unique Mobility. They have such motors, and have been in
business long enough to be less risky than a tiny startup company with
no track record. Be warned that they are expensive!
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey there,
nice to see another Sydney-sider here!
Ben Haines writes:
> I'm trying to build an EV in Sydney Australia but having
> trouble to find suppliers in australia. DO you or anybody
> else have any contacts of suppliers?
The local people we've dealt with so far are:
Advanced DC motor: EV-motors, Kenthurst NSW http://www.evmotors.com.au/ - Dr.
Michael Symons
Curtis bits: Bylong Industries, Crows Nest NSW http://www.bylongind.com.au/ -
Michael King
Battery charger: Woods Battery Chargers, Thornton NSW
http://woodsbatterychargers.com/ - Shaun Woods
Trojan batteries: ALCO Battery Sales, Penrith NSW - 02 4722-2588
Vacuum pump: Rietschle Thomas Australia, Seven Hills NSW
http://www.rietschle.co.uk/company/contact_australia.asp
Caveat: No affiliation other than as a happy customer.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Claudio has mentioned most of the Aus based EV suppliers.
(Not many is there?)
There is also Pro-Lec in Castle Hill - a great place to get HV cables
made up.
(02 9680 4718)
Ashdown Auto Electrical in Silverwater has Anderson electrical
connectors.
(02 9681 2711)
I can also recommend www.evparts.com for getting hold of all the
remaining bits and pieces you will require. (I've ordered stuff and had
it delivered within a week - to Sydney.)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 1 May 2005 5:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
Hey there,
nice to see another Sydney-sider here!
Ben Haines writes:
> I'm trying to build an EV in Sydney Australia but having
> trouble to find suppliers in australia. DO you or anybody
> else have any contacts of suppliers?
The local people we've dealt with so far are:
Advanced DC motor: EV-motors, Kenthurst NSW http://www.evmotors.com.au/
- Dr. Michael Symons
Curtis bits: Bylong Industries, Crows Nest NSW
http://www.bylongind.com.au/ - Michael King
Battery charger: Woods Battery Chargers, Thornton NSW
http://woodsbatterychargers.com/ - Shaun Woods
Trojan batteries: ALCO Battery Sales, Penrith NSW - 02 4722-2588
Vacuum pump: Rietschle Thomas Australia, Seven Hills NSW
http://www.rietschle.co.uk/company/contact_australia.asp
Caveat: No affiliation other than as a happy customer.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There's also Cleveland Electronic Services
<http://members.austarmetro.com.au/~clevefj/>
I haven't bought anything from them but they were helpful when I
emailed them.
Mark Fowler wrote:
Claudio has mentioned most of the Aus based EV suppliers.
(Not many is there?)
There is also Pro-Lec in Castle Hill - a great place to get HV
cables
made up.
(02 9680 4718)
Ashdown Auto Electrical in Silverwater has Anderson electrical
connectors.
(02 9681 2711)
I can also recommend www.evparts.com for getting hold of all the
remaining bits and pieces you will require. (I've ordered stuff and
had it delivered within a week - to Sydney.)
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: Claudio Natoli [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, 1 May 2005 5:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Australian suppliers (WAS: RE: big DC motor)
Hey there,
nice to see another Sydney-sider here!
Ben Haines writes:
I'm trying to build an EV in Sydney Australia but having
trouble to find suppliers in australia. DO you or anybody
else have any contacts of suppliers?
The local people we've dealt with so far are:
Advanced DC motor: EV-motors, Kenthurst NSW
http://www.evmotors.com.au/ - Dr. Michael Symons
Curtis bits: Bylong Industries, Crows Nest NSW
http://www.bylongind.com.au/ - Michael King
Battery charger: Woods Battery Chargers, Thornton NSW
http://woodsbatterychargers.com/ - Shaun Woods
Trojan batteries: ALCO Battery Sales, Penrith NSW - 02 4722-2588
Vacuum pump: Rietschle Thomas Australia, Seven Hills NSW
http://www.rietschle.co.uk/company/contact_australia.asp
Caveat: No affiliation other than as a happy customer.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ben,
"DO you or anybody else have any contacts of suppliers?"
Perhaps you need a supplier of contacts?
Stu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ben Haines
Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 2:37 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: big DC motor
James,
I'm trying to build an EV in Sydney Australia but having trouble to find
suppliers in australia. DO you or anybody else have any contacts of
suppliers?
Thanks
Ben
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Saturday, 30 April 2005 9:07 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: OT: big DC motor
Hi All
Knowlege accumulated from this list has allowed me to be able to be a
bit
of an expert on DC motive power, at least in the eyes of a maintenance
electrician for our biggest timber company here. This is not what would
be
going in a road-going EV, 100hp and 400V. The thing is driving a
primary-saw carrige (so I suppose it is an EV of sorts, done 10,000,000
miles, 10 meters one way, 10 meters back!). According to the electrician
it
originated from a WW2 liberty ship.
This fits in with the non-electronic motor control discussions going on.
What was fascinating the way that it was controlled. The primary power
for
the motor was supplied by a 3-phase motor-driven generator. There used
to
be a small generator on the main generator, to supply the 100V field
that
has been replaced by a power supply.
The main generator field is reversed to reverse the output, to reverse
the
motor. The main generator gets its' field from an "amplidyne" (not sure
how
that is spelled) unit. The "amplidyne" is a 2.5hp 3-phase motor driven
generator, which in turn gets its' field from a 25 watt pot!. The pot
has a
center tap that seems to be at zero volts, and is the park position for
the
throttle. Each end of the (180 degree) pot is attached to what seems to
be
+ and -, not sure from where, probably the whole thing voltage divided
+ off
the 100VDC field generator by a collection of power resistors in the
control box.
If anyone has more information, I'd be interested in knowing (not for
the
customer, since the reason I was there was first visit to put an
electronic
drive on the unit).
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
Sill trying to find time to get my conversion finished...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike, The male plug on the battery charger is a male type, this is how they
come assemble. When the battery charger is mounted on-board than the male plug
is change to a male recepticle. There is no power on this cord end while it is
unplug.
The female connector is the one that comes from the AC power that plugs into
the on-board male plug or recepticle on the EV, made up like any extension
cord.
It sure be nice if the free end of the battery charger cord had AC power on it
all the time, would never have to plug it in.
I sometime get some things reversed too, looking at it too close, have to stand
back and look at it again.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Mike Chancey<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 10:04 PM
Subject: Re: 4 prong connector
Lawrence, I would absolutely NOT put another male receptacle on that
EV! It is a serious safety hazard. Why on earth would you want to leave
pins live to your 120 VDC pack accessible to little fingers? All you need
is a curious child and you have a potential disaster. Think about
it. When the charger is not plugged into the EV its output connector is
dead. That is where the male connector should be. A male connector on the
charger output cord does not represent any hazard, but a male connector on
the EV inlet does.
Bottom line. Replace the connector on the EV with a FEMALE 5 pin
connector. Replace the charger output connector with the matching male
plug. A good choice would be something like an L21-30. Wire one blade to
pack positive (120 VDC), Wire the opposite to pack negative (120
VDC). Wire the next blade to 12 Volt Positive, and wire the opposite to 12
Volt Negative. Wire a jumper from the center pin to the 12 Volt negative
pin on the charger plug end. On the EV side, wire the center pin to the
ground connector on a 12 Volt relay. Wire the positive connector of the
relay to the "ignition circuit of the EV. Now wire the normally closed
relay contacts to interrupt the main contactor power circuit. This should
be the connections that went to the original switch mounted in the
inlet. This will insure that it is not possible to drive off in the EV
with the cord plugged in. The main contactor will not close and the EV
will not run.
FWIW I understand the connector used on the Jet conversions is not a NEMA
unit, but a unique connector made by mixing parts of NEMA connectors together.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com<http://evalbum.com/>
My Electric Car at:
http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda<http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda>
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org<http://maeaa.org/>
Join the EV List at:
http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html<http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html>
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm not to sure to be honest but they are definatly bigger than a
typical sedan's boot. As an estimate you might be able to fit everything
into, 3x2x1m space? but don't quote me on that. I build the overhead
wiring for the trains, so the actual technology in the trains is a bit
out of my field ;)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: Sunday, 1 May 2005 4:33 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: An AC style "bypass"?
What does it weigh and how much space is required (including the
chiller)?
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ben Haines" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, April 30, 2005 11:22 PM
Subject: RE: An AC style "bypass"?
> Hey guys just some food for thought
>
> It is possible to build 1500VDC 3000Amp AC controller/motors . I work
> with the railway in Sydney Australia and all our trains run on 1500VDC
> supply and can continuously draw a maximum of 3000amps. They can
> produce a similar ampage in regen. The AC controllers (made by
> ALSTOM I
> believe) can do this because they are actively cooled (refrigerated)
so
> the technology is out there, just maybe not so practical for EV's at
the
> moment.
>
> Ben
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Rod Hower
> Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2005 12:34 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: An AC style "bypass"?
>
>
> "supply big power DC to the commutator, which in turn
> > generates
> > (somewhat manky) AC. "
> That's a DC brush motor, not an AC induction motor.
> No need to add brushes to the AC motor, just bigger
> silicon devices.
> If you want big amps on the AC motor you'll need some
> serious silicon, which is not cheap.
> I think in the next 5 years this will be possible and competitive,
> expecially with high voltage. Maybe an 800Vdc pack with a 1600Vdc
> rated inverter?
>
> --- Quin Pendragon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > OK, here's a crazy idea - how about an AC motor with attached
> > commutator? So you use the AC drive electronics up
> > to a certain point,
> > then just flick a switch (several big bulky relays,
> > more like) and
> > supply big power DC to the commutator, which in turn generates
> > (somewhat manky) AC. You could probably fix it up to
> > be 'better' AC
> > with some capacitive-inductive magic, maybe someone
> > with the
> > appropriate analogue electronics knowhow could
> > comment on whether it's
> > possible or not? :)
> >
> > A commutator is just a mechanical inverter, after
> > all.
> >
> > On 4/28/05, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> > > I still think one of these could be built. I want
> > one with two
> > > settings: All or nothing.
> > >
> > > Isn't there some devious way to construct an all
> > or nothing type
> > > inverter? And cheaply?
> > >
> > > I think we could get down the drag strip with one
> > of those..
> > >
> > > Make it offer full voltage and full amperage.
> > >
> > > What would it consist of?
> > >
> > > How simple can you make it?
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Fowler writes:
> There is also Pro-Lec in Castle Hill - a great place to get HV cables
> made up.
> (02 9680 4718)
I should have mentioned Pro-Lec too, who made up the adaptor/hub for our
conversion.
> I can also recommend www.evparts.com for getting hold of all the
> remaining bits and pieces you will require. (I've ordered
> stuff and had it delivered within a week - to Sydney.)
Same as my experience. Another recommendation for evparts.
Cheers,
Claudio
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great summary, but one minor correction, Bill. The spring rate for a coil
spring is ( almost exactly) proportional to the fourth power of the wire
diameter.
For example, a 1 % increase in wire diameter results in about a 4 % increase
in spring rate, and a 10% increase in wire diameter results in about a 46%
increase in spring rate. This means you have to measure wire diameters VERY
carefully to get a good prediction of the relative spring rates of two
springs different wire diameters.
Also, don't believe anyone who tells you the the spring rate depends on the
" grade" of steel used. All steels have almost exactly the same shear
modulus - and that is what determines the spring rate. A spring made of
the wrong steel may sag over time ( or even break ) but the type of steel
won't effect the spring rate.
Phil
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Finding the right springs (was: probably need new
shocks/springs...)
Date: Sat, 30 Apr 2005 19:50:52 -0600
It's pretty common to want to swap coil springs to boost up the ride
height of your conversion. If you can't get a tip on the model car that has
slightly beefier springs, you will need to go to the junk yard and figure
it out for yourself. This is worth the effort because custom springs cost
about $150 a set and junkyard springs can be had for less than $50 a set.
First, measure the compressed height of the springs as they are installed
on the car, bearing the full weight of the car. Next, you must remove the
springs from your car to measure the free height. Take them out of the
struts (with the proper tools so you don't end up in the hospital.)
Carefully measure the free height, outside diameter, and the coil wire
thickness. Take a front and rear spring with you when you go to the
junkyard.
You need to find a spring with the same outside diameter, but with either
the same size coil wire and a slightly taller free height _OR_ the same
free height and a slightly larger coil wire _OR_ with fewer coils and the
same wire diameter and free height.
If the coil wire is the same diameter, then the difference in free height
will give you a rough idea of the difference in ride height. A two inch
taller spring (with the same coil wire and about the same number of coils)
will raise your car about two inches.
If you choose a spring with thicker coil wire, it should not be much
thicker. The "spring rate" is roughly proportional to the diameter of the
wire. If you want the compressed height to go up by 10%, then the coil wire
should be about 10% bigger (with the same free height and the same number
of coils.)
If you reduce the number of coils by 10% then the compressed height will
go up by about 10% (if the coil wire diameter and the free height stay the
same.)
This isn't rocket science. :^)
Again, get the right tools to compress and then remove the springs. Car
springs store a bunch of energy when compressed and will take your head
right off if given half a chance. They will punch right through the fender
if the compression tool slips off.
When you have the springs out, replace the shocks and struts. (Don't get
cheezy ones.) Consider putting in beefier sway bars as well.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It all depends on where you are. Here in SoCal none of the brake shops that
I know of make custom brake lines anymore- their insurance won't allow them
to.
Thank you, lawyers, for making life so much simpler for the rest of us.
I had some made at a speed shop called Earl's Performance down in Lawndale,
CA, a couple of years ago:
EARL'S PERFORMANCE 15827 Hawthorne Blvd Lawndale, CA 90260 (310)
644-0881
If you can't find someone local, you might call them.
Good luck!
Marv
Culver City, CA
> From: James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Sun, 01 May 2005 10:00:50 +1000
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Brake Lines
>
> At 11:57 AM 30/04/05 -0700, you wrote:
>> I'm working on fixing a Sparrow that has melted brake lines. These were
>> the metal-braid covered flex lines.
>> Where do I go to get new ones - probably need to be custom made as well?
>
> Should be no problem, any good brake specialist near you should be able to
> do/get them. We had a special 1 meter flexible line made for a trailer, had
> it in two days (interstate). But that was here in Australia.
>
> James
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland wrote:
Mike, The male plug on the battery charger is a male type, this is how
they come assemble. When the battery charger is mounted on-board than the
male plug is change to a male recepticle. There is no power on this cord
end while it is unplug.
The female connector is the one that comes from the AC power that plugs
into the on-board male plug or recepticle on the EV, made up like any
extension cord.
It sure be nice if the free end of the battery charger cord had AC power
on it all the time, would never have to plug it in.
I sometime get some things reversed too, looking at it too close, have to
stand back and look at it again.
I have to stand by my previous statements. While some Jet Industries did
build some EVs with on board chargers, I believe the ElectraVan 750 has an
off board charger just like my old Jet 007. While they included the
ability to carry the charger on board the charger was wired to output DC to
the vehicle. As originally shipped these off-board charger vehicles had a
male plug on the charger to access AC power from an outlet. They then had
a female plug to output DC power to the EV. The EV had a male inlet
feeding power to the pack. Those male terminals on the EV are live to DC
power at all times. This is the safety hazard.
Some Jet 007s (Omnis) and ElectraVan 600s (Subarus) had on-board
chargers. These used a male inlet as well, but as this inlet was to feed
AC power into the charger there was no hazard when it was disconnected. If
I recall correctly these EVs used a three prong inlet.
Lawrence, is your charger on board or off board? Does it include one male
plug to go to the wall outlet and one female plug to go to the EV?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John O'Connor wrote:
I am planning on replacing the stock heater core with an electric
resistive heater core in my pick-up conversion project and I have a few
questions.
I would like to keep the stock heater core for use as a radiator in a
Zilla cooling system. What materials have others used to make a "case" for
the heater element?
Also, a while back someone posted a message about cutting a hole in the
firewall to provide access to the heater core without having to remove
the dash.
Are there any downsides to doing this?
What would be the recommended tool to make the cut?
I would not recommend cutting the firewall, it is a structural
element. Also, since the heater core was not originally designed to be
accessed by cutting the firewall you might find you gained nothing by
cutting into it. Some cars have tricky ways to access the heater core,
others are a pain. For example a Fiero heater core is accessed through a
speaker opening. On my Solectria Force I discovered Solectria did not
follow the factory recommended procedure and remove the steering column and
dash, instead they simply cutoff part of the heater housing, removed the
heater core, installed the ceramic element, then glued the cutoff piece
back on with silicone. What does the service manual say is the procedure
for replacing the heater core on your truck?
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sunday, May 1, 2005, at 11:00 AM, Mike Chancey wrote:
John O'Connor wrote:
Also, a while back someone posted a message about cutting a hole in
the firewall to provide access to the heater core without having to
remove the dash.
Are there any downsides to doing this?
What would be the recommended tool to make the cut?
I would not recommend cutting the firewall, it is a structural
element. Also, since the heater core was not originally designed to
be accessed by cutting the firewall you might find you gained nothing
by cutting into it. Some cars have tricky ways to access the heater
core, others are a pain. For example a Fiero heater core is accessed
through a speaker opening. On my Solectria Force I discovered
Solectria did not follow the factory recommended procedure and remove
the steering column and dash, instead they simply cutoff part of the
heater housing, removed the heater core, installed the ceramic
element, then glued the cutoff piece back on with silicone. What does
the service manual say is the procedure for replacing the heater core
on your truck?
Mike Chancey
Thanks Mike,
The factory manual indicated the dash had to be removed. What it didn't
say was that in addition to the dash, the steering column and the
entire ventilation system also has to be disassembled. I did all this
back in February (the parts are all still laid out in the living room)
and I NEVER want to have to do again if I can help it.
All that work is required because the heater core slips into the heater
box from the front of the vehicle. Cutting a hole in the firewall (with
a replaceable cover of some sort maybe) seems to be an elegant way to
provide access in case I need it for repair/replacement of the electric
heater core.
Is there any way to questemate the kind of structural damage I would be
doing by cutting such a hole in the firewall? The vehicle is an 86
Nissan Kingcab Pickup.
John
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/1/2005 12:41:32 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Unique Mobility
Duncan and Lee;
Unique Mobility is the outdated name of UQM located in Colorado (Frederick
in think) _http://www.uqm.com_ (http://www.uqm.com)
Although I agree they have very good electric motor products in the BLDC
category they do not sell directly to individuals. Their motors are sized from
wheel chairs (their long standing base business) and scooters to 3000 plus
pound EVs. Much of their recent work has been in the area of prototyping
larger
vehicles and government defense related research contracts. I was in their lab
4 months ago and they had a large John Deere tractor being converted for the
manufacturer and a full size Chevy pickup being converted for the Navy.
However UQM will sell products only to corporations that fit their
definition of OEM due to potential insurance liability that could come back on
them as
the manufacturer.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council
Boulder, Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
In a message dated 5/1/2005 7:47:22 AM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< It all depends on where you are. Here in SoCal none of the brake shops that
I know of make custom brake lines anymore- their insurance won't allow them
to.
T >>
The brake chain shops, (Midas Stop etc) wont touch them, and it's certainly
not because of liability. It's because they cant make a fortune on them like
they can on all the other stuff they sell and install. If they cant make a ton
of money really fast, they will have nothing to do with it.
All those chain shops have to pay appx 20% of their gross reciepts in
franchise fees., and most wont pay their help a living wage, so alot of the
work they
do is suspect.
All my brakes students *must* learn bending and flaring before they can
graduate, it's still in the ASE standards.
Get ahold of the automotive department at your local community college,
chances are they will know of a real technician at a real shop that can handle
the
job (or have their students do it)
HTH,
Ben
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, I wasn't thinking about the fact you are doing a truck. That changes
things quite a bit since there is a chassis holding it all together. The
stress on the firewall would be much less. Since you already have it apart
it does sound like cutting an access panel would be a reasonable
idea. Maybe say 8" by 10" opening with rounded corners and a cover about
2" larger in all dimensions mounted with large self tapping machine screws
about 2 inches apart around the perimeter. Use plenty of sealer when
installing it and it would work fine. Of course you will also need an
access panel into the heater box itself as well.
The big question is, once you complete the conversion, will it be easier to
get to the firewall access plate or to pull the dash? On my Civic getting
to the firewall would require pulling the front batteries, controller and
battery rack. Just trying to think long term here.
Thanks,
Mike Chancey,
'88 Civic EV
'95 Solectria Force
Kansas City, Missouri
EV List Photo Album at: http://evalbum.com
My Electric Car at: http://www.geocities.com/electric_honda
Mid-America EAA chapter at: http://maeaa.org
Join the EV List at: http://www.madkatz.com/ev/evlist.html
Wasting imported oil is not an act of patriotism, conserving it is.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This message was from the current owner of the 1981 Rabbit Pickup EV
that I built. I know the Pickup has a 120 volt pack of Trojan T-125
batteries that is about 6 months old and is running a DCP 450
controller (a baby version of the 156 volt DCP 600.)
>>>Lately when driving there are isolated times when I have the
sensation of driving over a grate.� There is a rapid vibration followed
by a brief power decrease.� There hasn't been any voltage
irregularities that I can see until this morning....� I was having that
vibration and a decrease in power that made me think I might not make
it to work.� Then I checked the voltage and it was dropping down into
the high 80's and 90's.� When I took my foot off the accelator the
voltage jumped back up.� I pulled off the raod and sat for a minute and
when I got back on the road I didn't have any more problems.� Can you
enlighten me?<<<
If anyone on this list (that I know is full of DCP users :-) has any
insight please let me know either on or off list. I will forward the
information to the current owner who is not on the list. I have again
reminded her to drive more by the volt meter and less by the SOC
function of the e-meter, especially in cooler weather. The batteries
should be staying pretty balanced - its a Lester charger.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 1, 2005, at 11:45 AM, John O'Connor wrote:
Is there any way to questemate the kind of structural damage I would
be doing by cutting such a hole in the firewall? The vehicle is an 86
Nissan Kingcab Pickup.
Its a Pickup with a frame. Most likely no structural damage. You want
to make sure there is nothing between the heater core access and the
firewall (otherwise you still won't be able to reach it). You also want
to close that hole airtight when done, otherwise you will get an
annoying cold air leak and possibly funny smells too.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I spent afair bit of time talking to an importer of these. The
controller is a bit of a weak point, but they work, or so he says.
Joint the yahoo group for powerassists and ask around for opinions on
these.
It is a shame that motors aren't more available. There seems to be an
opportunity here. I keep hearing about possible motors being made
available, but they never seem to materialize.
Seth
On May 1, 2005, at 2:48 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
Duncan Orthner wrote:
Can some of you here take a look at this web site and tell me
what you think? These are small hub motors for scooters and
electric bicycles . . . but some of them go up to 2000 watts:
http://www.crystalyte.com/
I know nothing about these motors in particular. However, most appear
to
be good for a few hundred watts, which is less than 1/2 HP. The small
physical size and lack of cooling means that while they could produce a
peak of 2000 watts, it's unlikely they could do so for more than a few
minutes.
I'm very interested in finding some low speed, high torque hub
motors for a small, golf cart sized vehicle.
Check with Unique Mobility. They have such motors, and have been in
business long enough to be less risky than a tiny startup company with
no track record. Be warned that they are expensive!
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Last I checked, they weren't making wheelchair motors anymore. I was
looking into it as an OEM and they said they could restart production,
but I didn't want to buy ~1000 at the first pop.
Seth
On May 1, 2005, at 3:12 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In a message dated 5/1/2005 12:41:32 A.M. Mountain Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Unique Mobility
Duncan and Lee;
Unique Mobility is the outdated name of UQM located in Colorado
(Frederick
in think) _http://www.uqm.com_ (http://www.uqm.com)
Although I agree they have very good electric motor products in the
BLDC
category they do not sell directly to individuals. Their motors are
sized from
wheel chairs (their long standing base business) and scooters to 3000
plus
pound EVs. Much of their recent work has been in the area of
prototyping larger
vehicles and government defense related research contracts. I was in
their lab
4 months ago and they had a large John Deere tractor being converted
for the
manufacturer and a full size Chevy pickup being converted for the
Navy.
However UQM will sell products only to corporations that fit their
definition of OEM due to potential insurance liability that could come
back on them as
the manufacturer.
Mike Bachand
Denver Electric Vehicle Council
Boulder, Colorado
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 1/05/2005 5:42 PM, Claudio Natoli wrote:
nice to see another Sydney-sider here!
Ben Haines writes:
I'm trying to build an EV in Sydney Australia but having
trouble to find suppliers in australia. DO you or anybody
else have any contacts of suppliers?
Shaun Williams of Brisbane is doing a Toyota Echo conversion and has a
list of local suppliers he's used and prices paid here:
http://www.electric-echo.com/prices.htm
Good website! http://www.electric-echo.com/
Car is finished and going through Qld Transport certification now.
--
Regards,
Brian Hay.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John O'Connor wrote:
> The factory manual indicated the dash had to be removed. What it
> didn't say was that in addition to the dash, the steering column
> and the entire ventilation system also has to be disassembled.
> I did all this back in February (the parts are all still laid out
> in the living room) and I NEVER want to have to do again if I can
> help it.
Hopefully there is a place in Hell for engineers that design things this
way. Their punishment is that they have to replace these heater cores
for eternity (that should be long enough to get a few done :-)
> Is there any way to guesstimate the kind of structural damage I would
> be doing by cutting such a hole in the firewall? The vehicle is an 86
> Nissan Kingcab Pickup.
If the hole was covered by a new panel that was bolted/riveted/welded
back in place properly, there shouldn't be any structural degradation.
And of course there is the issue of how you cut it out without
accidentally cutting something else important!
Why not leave the stock heater core in place, and use a small water tank
and electric heater to provide hot water? Circulate it thru the heater
core and you should be all set.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm having a similar problem. As a matter of fact, I
got the truck at a great price because of this
problem. Both the previous owner and myself thought
it was a slipping clutch. Between the both of us, we
replaced just about everything possible associated
with the cluth; no improvement. Some notes on my
problem:
-Only happens when moving. At a stop, with break
pressed (stalled motor), does not happen. I take this
to mean that it requires the motor to be under load,
or the controller to be delivering power, not just
current. The stalled motor (no back emf, but lots of
current) isn't delivering much power.
-Seems to (usually) go away when it warms up. But
for all practical purposes, it is rendering the truck
unusable.
-I hooked a battery powered fluke sopemeter to the
motor voltage and battery voltage. Battery voltage
goes up when this happens, motor voltage cuts out at
around a 60 Hz rate.
-I made a motor dummy load out of some _large_
inductors and some thin wall stainless tubing in a
tank of water. While not quite the same, it cuts out
with the motor simulator. So I don't believe it's the
motor at fault. Bill Dube' lent me an old 'Zilla
controller; I'll probably put that in the truck while
I'm figuring out the DCP problem.
-I have taken the controller apart, and reversed a
good portion of the schematic of the controller board.
I hope to figure more of it out, put the controller
mostly back together and probe around with the
controller under load to help figure out what's going
on.
Any thoughts/suggestions/past experiences would be
greatly appreciated!
Steven Ciciora
--- "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> This message was from the current owner of the 1981
> Rabbit Pickup EV
> that I built. I know the Pickup has a 120 volt pack
> of Trojan T-125
> batteries that is about 6 months old and is running
> a DCP 450
> controller (a baby version of the 156 volt DCP 600.)
>
> >>>Lately when driving there are isolated times
> when I have the
> sensation of driving over a grate. There is a rapid
> vibration followed
> by a brief power decrease. There hasn't been any
> voltage
> irregularities that I can see until this
> morning.... I was having that
> vibration and a decrease in power that made me think
> I might not make
> it to work. Then I checked the voltage and it was
> dropping down into
> the high 80's and 90's. When I took my foot off the
> accelator the
> voltage jumped back up. I pulled off the raod and
> sat for a minute and
> when I got back on the road I didn't have any more
> problems. Can you
> enlighten me?<<<
>
> If anyone on this list (that I know is full of DCP
> users :-) has any
> insight please let me know either on or off list. I
> will forward the
> information to the current owner who is not on the
> list. I have again
> reminded her to drive more by the volt meter and
> less by the SOC
> function of the e-meter, especially in cooler
> weather. The batteries
> should be staying pretty balanced - its a Lester
> charger.
>
> Paul "neon" G.
>
>
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--- End Message ---
