EV Digest 4334
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) EVLN(hybrid tax break left out of the energy bill)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(50 mpg Humvee for tree-hugging U.S. Army peacenicks?)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Humboldt Electric Vehicle Association displays at HSU)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: ZAP to Use ABAT Lithium-Ion Polymer Batteries in EVs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) EVLN(India's IIT serial hybrid bus)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Serviceability (was electric heater core questions)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: battery help needed
by Thomas J webster <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Raptor 1200 for Miramar high school
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Raptor 1200 for Miramar high school
by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ABAT Lithium-Ion Polymer Batteries in EVs (Sony, Toshiba Correction)
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: battery help needed
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) clutchless shifting
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: clutchless shifting
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: batteries and range
by Matt Holthausen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) WTB: shunt
by Martin K <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: clutchless shifting
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Fwd: Re: clutchless shifting
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: WTB: shunt
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: EVLN(e=motion land-speed record attempt EV powered by ABB motors)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: OT: Listproc commands - Digest vs Ack
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Serviceability (was electric heater core questions)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: EVLN(e=motion land-speed record attempt EV powered by ABB
motors)
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: battery help needed
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(hybrid tax break left out of the energy bill)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.freep.com/news/statewire/sw115020_20050427.htm
Automakers applaud Bush tax incentives for hybrids, clean-diesel
April 27, 2005, 6:48 PM
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Automakers on Wednesday praised President
Bush's call for incentives to boost sales of energy-efficient
vehicles, saying the tax credits would help drive more of the
technology into the marketplace.
White House officials said the energy-related proposals would
provide $2.5 billion in tax incentives over 10 years. Consumers
would receive a credit of up to $4,000, based on the level of the
vehicle's fuel efficiency, if they purchase a hybrid or
clean-diesel vehicle.
"This is exactly the way you should introduce technology to the
consumer market," said Chris Preuss, a spokesman for General
Motors Corp., the world's biggest automaker.
Ford Motor Co. said the incentives would help motivate consumers
to buy hybrids and fuel cell vehicles and help lay the foundation
for a transition in the auto industry toward more fuel-efficient
vehicles.
"With incremental costs of 15 to 25 percent over comparable
gasoline models, current hybrid vehicle sales have been limited
to a relatively narrow segment of the consumer market -- less
than 0.5 percent," said Dan Brouillette, Ford's vice president
for Washington affairs.
"This market-based approach will help align consumer choice with
broader fuel-economy policy goals," he said.
DaimlerChrysler AG spokesman Dennis Fitzgibbons said the company
agreed with the broad approach to the tax breaks, saying "any
system of consumer tax incentives shouldn't favor one technology
over the other."
Automakers have invested heavily in the developing technology as
a way of moving away from petroleum-based fuels.
Toyota Motor Corp., the first automaker to commercially
mass-produce and sell hybrid cars, has dominated the hybrid
market. The Toyota Prius, which went on sale in the United States
in 2000, occupied 64 percent of the U.S. hybrid market last year,
with 53,761 new Prius cars registered, R.L. Polk & Co. reported.
New hybrid vehicle registrations totaled 83,153 in 2004, an 81
percent increase over the year before, according to Polk, a
Southfield-based firm that collects and interprets automotive
data.
GM introduced hybrid versions of the GMC Sierra and Chevrolet
Silverado last year and plans to rollout more than a dozen
fuel-efficient models after 2007. DaimlerChrysler offers
clean-diesel vehicles in the Mercedes E320 CDI and the Jeep
Liberty.
GM's Preuss said the incentives would help spur investment in
research and development opportunities and ultimately help drive
hydrogen fuel technology. Bush launched a hydrogen fuel
initiative two years ago and has dedicated $1.2 billion over five
years to develop hydrogen-powered fuel cells.
The proposed tax credits for gas-electric hybrid automobiles and
for use of clean diesel are similar to a proposal in Bush's
budget plan unveiled earlier this year. The hybrid tax break was
left out of the energy bill passed by the House last week.
"These technologies will help us with our energy problems," said
Rep. Dave Camp, R-Midland, who has pushed for the incentives in
Congress. "The market will decide the direction of the new
technologies."
Sen. Carl Levin, D-Mich., said the incentives did not go far
enough. He has sought incentives of $5,300 for hybrid vehicles,
and more for advanced diesel technology.
"People aren't going to develop these technologies unless they
know that there is a sure market for them and that's where these
tax credits are critical," Levin said.
[an error occurred while processing this directive]
Copyright � 2005 Detroit Free Press Inc.
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(50 mpg Humvee for tree-hugging U.S. Army peacenicks?)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://money.cnn.com/2005/04/21/Autos/hybrid_army/
Army has Humvee-like hybrid
Lightweight utility vehicle has interchangeable bodies, a
removable engine and gets 50 mpg. April 21, 2005: 5:17 PM EDT
By Steve Hargreaves, CNN/Money staff writer
NEW YORK (CNN/Money) - If there's one thing that could help
hybrid vehicles shed their image as the ride of choice for
tree-hugging peacenicks, it's the U.S. Army using them to barrel
across the desert in some forlorn location where no Prius would
dare tread.
The same U.S. Army -- known for the 11 mpg Humvee utility vehicle
and the M1 tank, which needs two gallons to go a mile -- recently
unveiled a 50 mpg hybrid utility vehicle that can replace the
Humvee on many assignments.
Known as the MP Hybrid, the vehicle was developed both to save
money on fuel and to fill a gap caused by redeployment of regular
Humvees from U.S. bases to overseas assignments.
"The Army uses a lot of fuel," said Germaine Fuller from the
Army's National Automotive Center, a research and development
department charged with creating vehicles and technologies for
joint military/civilian use. "If we can find a way to save on
that, its highly needed."
The MP Hybrid is novel in several ways.
It is a lightweight, at around 2100 pounds, with a top speed of
around 40 mph.
The Army developed the hybrid chassis, which contains the 18-hp
diesel engine, two 10-hp electric engines and three batteries, to
support interchangeable body types. The different body types so
far include passenger, pick-up, armored or one for remote control
vehicles.
Its diesel engine is also removable, acting as a generator, and
its mechanics are more accessible and easier to work on than
those of existing hybrids.
Fuller said the lightweight MP Hybrid is designed for duty on
relatively confined, low-speed areas like military bases,
airports, parks or campuses. But an unmanned version could be
used for reconnaissance missions on the battlefield, she said.
The hybrid is also cheaper than a Humvee, with a price tag of
around $20,000 verses $65,000 for its larger cousin.
The MP Hybrid will now be put out for field tests for further
evaluation by the Army.
The vehicle was developed jointly by the Army's National
Automotive Center and the speciality design company California
Motors.
If it gets the go ahead for production, it will be made by
California-based Quantum Fuel System Technologies Worldwide
(Research), a manufacturer of hybrid vehicle technology.
The National Automotive Center has helped develop other
technology since adopted by the civilian sector inc
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Humboldt Electric Vehicle Association displays at HSU)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.eurekareporter.com/Stories/cm-04240502.htm
4/24/2005 HSU's Sustainable Living Arts and Music Festival turns 10
this year
by Nathan Rushton The Eureka Reporter
Kevin Johnson of the Humboldt Electric Vehicle Association
displays at HSU�s 10th annual Sustainable Arts and Music Festival
Saturday his electric-powered Volkswagen Rabbit, which can travel
up to 50 miles between charges.
Trying to spread the message that people can live sustainably
while having fun doing it was the theme for Humboldt State
University�s 10th annual Sustainable Living Arts and Music
Festival yesterday.
The event, held on the campus�s special events field, was
organized and staffed by volunteers and completely powered by
renewable energy that it generates from solar panels.
This year�s musical guests included the HSU calypso band, the
Colorado-based bluegrass music of Victor Barnes and Garaj Mahal.
Speakers from the Wiyot Table Bluff Reservation and the Green
Party also gave presentations.
One of the staff volunteers providing security for the event was
Robin Pagliuco, an HSU graduate and former organizer and manager
of the event in 2001 and 2003.
Pagliuco said the festival has evolved from a �vendor-heavy�
event that featured food, crafts and artists, to having a greater
emphasis on information.
She said about 90 percent of the people who set up booths
featured information about renewable energy resources and
composting.
Renewable-energy demonstrations included hydrogen-fuel cell,
electric and biodiesel vehicles and papermaking, as well as a
juggling workshop for children.
Among the informational demonstrations at the festival was
Humboldt Electric Vehicle Association, which had five electric
vehicles displayed that were converted from gas-operated motors.
HEVA member Kevin Johnson�s electric-powered 1984 Volkswagen
Rabbit was among those displayed with the other electric cars
and small trucks.
He said his vehicle can cruise along at 60 mph on the highway
and can travel about up to 50 miles between charges.
With gas prices climbing locally to $3 a gallon, he said it
costs about 15-25 cents per mile to operate a gas-powered car.
The electric vehicle�s operating costs are 2.5-6 cents per
mile to operate.
�Statistics show that most people drive between 20 and 25
miles per day,� Johnson said. �So these are perfect for an
around-town commuter car.�
Johnson generates the power for his home from solar panels, which
he also uses to recharge his car.
He said recharging the car�s battery on a standard 110 outlet is
done overnight, but with a 220-voltage outlet, it takes only a
few hours.
The typical costs to convert a car from a gas to an electric
motor are between $4,000-$7,000, Johnson said.
He said he estimated that after seven years his electric car and
home�s solar panels will have paid for themselves.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
ZQ Power Tech. See
http://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/745651/000074565105000005/abat10k2004.txt
Exserpt from the report:
...
Employees
Advanced Battery has only two employees: its Chairman and its
Secretary. ZQ Power-Tech has 360 employees. 28 are involved in
administration and 8 in marketing. The remainder are employed in
production capacities. None of our employees belongs to a collective
bargaining unit.
....
The name of ABAT CEO is Zhiguo Fu
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Nick Austin wrote:
On Tue, May 03, 2005 at 10:53:33AM -0700, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
FYI, Abat is 2 people company - Chairman and his secretary.
Manufacturing is done by subcontractor.
Do you know who?
It is TS? :)
Victor
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Nick Austin wrote:
Has anybody here talked to ABAT?
I just found what appears to be their website...
http://www.zqpt.com/zqenglish/index.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(India's IIT serial hybrid bus)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://news.webindia123.com/news/showdetails.asp?id=79855&cat=Business
Electric bus promises India eco-friendly ride:-
New Delhi | News Updated on Tuesday, May 03, 2005 12:43:36 AM
New Delhi, April 28 : The Indian Institute of Technology (IIT),
Delhi, has developed an electric bus that can be a boon for the
country's polluted cities and towns dependent on diesel-run
public transport.
The battery-operated bus can carry about 150 people at a top
speed of 65 kmph and cover about 160 km at one go. The vehicle
runs free of vibration, noise and heat.
The project follows years of research at the Instrument Design
Development Centre of IIT.
"Since 1996, we have been experimenting on various models. The
aim was to come up with a pollution-free and efficient transport
infrastructure," said project chief R. Arockiasamy told IANS.
The Rs.56 million ($1.2 million) spent on the project came in
1999 from the Oil Industry Development Board (OIDB) of the
ministry of petroleum and natural gas.
The computer regulated engine of the bus works through a motor
that draws power from a battery. An onboard charger that charges
the battery runs on diesel, which is why the bus is called
"hybrid electric vehicle".
"When operated without an onboard charger, it is called a zero
emission vehicle (as diesel is not used). However, the onboard
charger operates at the minimum specific fuel consumption point
(of the engine) and therefore has negligible emission,"
Arockiasamy told IANS.
"Initially, there was much appreciation from the government. But
before the vehicle could be commercialised, CNG (compressed
natural gas) buses came in."
According to Arockiasamy, "The governments of West Bengal, Tamil
Nadu, Andhra Pradesh and Delhi have shown interest in procuring
this vehicle. Recently, the West Bengal government asked for 20
buses, but the final paper work is yet to take place."
S.K. Sud, chief design engineer of the project, said the
technology can be used to convert 9,000 diesel buses in Delhi
that are no more in use after public transport in the city
shifted to CNG.
"To convert the buses into hybrid electric vehicles will be less
expensive than switching to CNG," Sud said.
The battery bus has a life of 25 years and costs over Rs.2.1
million as compared to Rs.1.4 million for a diesel bus and about
Rs.2 million for CNG.
According to the IIT team, the initiative needs government
support to be successful. "The government has to take the first
step. Once 50 to 100 (electric) buses are seen on Delhi's roads,
the private players will show interest," Sud said.
Asked about the government's support to the project, one of the
IIT team members said: "During his last visit at a test run,
Minister of State for Statistics & Programme Implementation Oscar
Fernandes assured that he would take up the issue with the
central government."
S.D. Dua, senior accounts officer at OIDB, said: "The petroleum
ministry has asked for the development report (of the bus), which
would soon be tabled in parliament."
Meanwhile, the team is planning to drive the vehicle from Delhi
to Kanyakumari in Tamil Nadu to popularise this eco-friendly
transport option.
"We will go for a 'Bharat Darshan' (India tour) on this vehicle
to draw the attention of state governments as well as private
parties," Arockiasamy said. (IANS)
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Ok, understood. What's the "emoticon" for sarcasm? :-)
:-P (tongue out) might do it...
Good engineers know that THEY will get the blame if something goes
wrong! Not some pointy-haired boss in management! Do it right, even if
it means arguing with your boss. The nice thing about engineering is
that so much of it is deterministic. When you're right, you can PROVE
that you're right!
If "right" or "wrong" can be calculated, sure.
But a transitioning from a good design to a bad one
(and so right to wrong) often is gradual, and judgement
call is only an *opinion* of senior
engineering staff. Identical design may be seen as
good one or bad one depending on economic times.
Can't fix anything! Bad design!.
But, despite this, the sale of the thing soar!
Must be a good design then!
Your controller example was obvious one, no one in
thgeir right mind will weld a controller to a body.
But many other aspects are gray area.
As you might know, many manufacturers bolt fenders in.
Yet others weld them in.
Which design is "better"? The answer, of course, depends
on "better for whom?".
Victor
p.s.
It was one of the [unsuccessful] french cars designs
where engineers were trying to make car reliable
enough for its reasonable life, and lifetime supply of oil,
coolant, and other "consumables" under hood were on board from
the factory, so the hood was welded shut - no need to
open it ever. Was it bad design?
As for a consumer it is good one - he (especially targeted she)
perceives confidence that since nothing has to be serviced
(no even access to the guts), nothing will ever break.
If it will, the company will replace whole car under warranty.
The point is bad/good is not juged by other engineers anymore.
Don't get me wrong, I love clever elegant simple designs too.
But if it takes a month for a good engineer to come up with one
while bad one (everything welded in) can be ready in a week
(and outcomes of both keep selling at the same rate),
guess who is gonna go first when the company is downsizing
next time.
You sure will proof to the pointy hair boss you're right
but harsh reality is you have to keep feeding yourself and the
family. So it is not always "better" to be right but out on the
street without job if you're faced tough choices and pressure
to make things "wrong way" but quicker and cheaper.
Have seen this happen, and can't always blame engineers.
Especially since many engineers are taught this way these days,
they don't know any better, and truly good designs aren't
really rewarded. Self satisfaction and design pride is perhaps
largest motivator, but who else around really cares?
Victor
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
David, I was trying to the real list not the yahoo archive. -Tom
On Tue, 03 May 2005 17:10:48 -0400
"David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 2 May 2005 at 19:43, Thomas J webster wrote:
>
> > P.S. I tried to join the elec-trak email list I kept getting a 404 error
> > when
> > I tryed to email or register?
>
> It sounds like you tried to subscribe to the Yahoo archive. That is not the
> real list - the actual ET list is a mailing list like this one. You can
> join it by sending an email with the subject "subscribe" (and a blank body)
> to:
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Be warned that the ET list is publicly archived and your email address is
> NOT obscured, so if you post material to the list you WILL receive spam on
> the account from which you posted. (I guarantee it.) I suggest subscribing
> with two email accounts, one with which you post but which you never read;
> and another with which you read but never post (this could be your regular
> account). Or you could use a "disposable" email address such as a Yahoo
> account.
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That sand rail for sale on the EV Trading Post has two
of them...
(;-p
--- Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If anyone knows of a Raptor 1200 please let me know.
> Miramar High School
> down in Florida is looking for one for their Porsche
> 944. This is a cool
> ride. Saw it at the EV Challenge. It has two XP
> 1227s.
>
> See ya
>
> Chip Gribben
> NEDRA Webmaster
> http://www.nedra.com
>
> NEDRA Power of DC June 11, 2005
> http://www.powerofdc.com
>
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
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--- Begin Message ---
Hey Rich,
I'll have to relay your brush arcing info to Lowell.
He mentioned he would prefer to go with a Zilla but wanted a used Raptor
untill they could raise some funds to get a Zilla.
Chip
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 5:40 PM
Subject: Re: Raptor 1200 for Miramar high school
> I thought Miramar had Raptors from way back.
>
> Also I would highly recomend that they Go for a Zilla 2K with twin Xp
> motors.
> XPs had a voltage issue with brush arcing, The fine motor voltage limits
> that a Zilla has would negate the hazzard. A Raptor won't.... and in Big
> way.
>
> Rich Rudman
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: "Ev" <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 11:57 AM
> Subject: Raptor 1200 for Miramar high school
>
>
> > If anyone knows of a Raptor 1200 please let me know. Miramar High School
> > down in Florida is looking for one for their Porsche 944. This is a cool
> > ride. Saw it at the EV Challenge. It has two XP 1227s.
> >
> > See ya
> >
> > Chip Gribben
> > NEDRA Webmaster
> > http://www.nedra.com
> >
> > NEDRA Power of DC June 11, 2005
> > http://www.powerofdc.com
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So, are these built from standard 18650 cells? (Not Sony HiRate)
If so 10C is a little high, unless they have improved.
Your measured 4.5C is much closer to the 4C I'd expect.
( Doh, should have read further, these are Li-polymer )
( Li-polymers should do 10C just fine, never used them myself )
I've drawn ~50Amps from a ~1.4Ah*5 18650 pack, 7Ah, is 7C. Though
I don't expect them to last very long. Much better is my 1Ah*12,
12Ah pack which is loaded to slightly more than 4C at the same 50A.
Anyway... at 10C these are something between the old 4C standard
Li-ion cells and the new 20C High Rate Sony cells. It's possible.
( Doh, Polymers, 10C seems just right )
I'm holding out for the 50C Toshiba cells, Which I rescently
mis-quoted as being C100 cells (Don't know where that came from).
Anyway, I re-ran the numbers myself and came up with 50C not 100C.
L8r
Ryan
Ed Blackmond wrote:
I bought a bunch of batteries from these guys last fall for testing
purposes. Life has happened, so I haven't done as much testing as I
wanted to by now.
I purchased some 11.1V 10Ah and some 14.8V 10Ah batteries. To make
these batteries, they put together five 3.7V cells in parallel to get a
3.7V 10Ah module. For the 11.1V battery they put three of these modules
in series. To get the 14.8V battery, they put 4 of these modules in
series. These batteries include a BMS that is made from standard
laptop/cell phone lithium ion control chips and FETs. All of this is
held together with heat shrink tubing.
The batteries were advertised as being able to handle 10C discharge.
Using a carbon pile tester I was able to get 4.5C discharges. Greater
than that and the BMS shut down. The BMS also shuts down at about 100%
DOD when drawing at 4C. The batteries do not get warm, but the parts on
the BMS do get warm.
I put together a 59.2V 20Ah pack and put it into my EVT 168. The BMS on
each battery burned out after about half a mile, but I could tell losing
over 100 pounds made a huge difference in how the scooter handled. All
the individual cells seem to be fine and I was planning on designing my
own BMS for a larger pack anyway.
I have one battery with about 100 cycles on it, but I have not had a
chance to build a serious cycler yet. They claim 600 cycles to 80%
DOD. If I can prove that they meet that, then I will definitely buy
from them.
ABAT will build modules of any voltage (integral multiple of 3.7V) and
any capacity (integral multiples of 2Ah). They quoted a price to me for
a 3.7V 50Ah module (without their BMS which I can't use anyway) of
US$80.00. That is US$0.43 per nominal watt hour.
A week ago, they announced two new products (37V 10Ah and 25.9V 10Ah)
that include a BMS and leads to bypass the BMS. The BMS leads can be
used to monitor the batteries when operating in bypass mode. I
suggested to them that they include an opto-isolated digital output that
indicates when the BMS would attempt to shut down. This could go to a
controller that could shut down the motor or charger, or at least warn
the operator that death was imminent.
It is clear that they intend to compete on price. Lower price is what
we need for these batteries.
Ed
On Tuesday, May 3, 2005, at 12:00 AM, Nick Austin wrote:
Has anybody here talked to ABAT?
Do we have any idea if they are making EV sized batteries which we can
buy?
Just curious.
Thanks!
On Mon, May 02, 2005 at 11:25:55PM -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
From Green Car Congress.
ZAP will begin using Advanced Battery Technologies' (ABAT) Lithium-Ion
Polymer batteries in its electric vehicles.
Under the first phase of a new agreement, ABAT will retrofit a range
of ZAP
electric vehicles with its Lithium Polymer batteries and chargers.
According to ZAP, initial testing shows that the ABAT batteries will
increase the run time of ZAP's three and four-wheel vehicles by three
times
over Lead-Acid batteries. The threefold increase in energy density of
the
lithium polymer batteries could enable a similar threefold increase in
transportation range for comparable-weight batteries, enabling ZAP's
vehicles to achieve a significantly increased driving range between
electric recharges.
ABAT is a relatively new Chinese company developing, manufacturing and
distributing rechargeable Lithium-Ion Polymer batteries.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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When the power disconnect switch is on, the Fuel Level gage should move
up into the green zone, between "E" and "F".
With this switch turned *on* (but the key switch off and key removed!),
you can then plug in the charger and turn on the timer. The Fuel Level
gage should then move up past the "F" into the "CHG" zone as the
batteries charge. The charger may well hum more as it is now doing real
work.
The owner's manual has the details on the timer, but since it sounds
like you have yet to get a full charge, you probably want more than 1-2
hours.
Thomas J webster wrote:
Jim,
On the right side of the tractor there is a power disconect switch. To charge the tractor I rotate the lever down disconecting the power so the tractor won't move. Then I plug in the charger and set it for 1-2 years. Is this how it works? If I rotate the lever up the charger seams to hum more? I don't understand the language (speach) of manuals I have. Thank you -Tom
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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Could someone explain, step by step, how clutchless shifting works? Is it
possible to remove the clutch pedal and still have a clutchless shifting
transmission?
Thanks
Rush
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--- Begin Message ---
At 07:39 PM 3/05/05 -0700, you wrote:
Could someone explain, step by step, how clutchless shifting works? Is it
possible to remove the clutch pedal and still have a clutchless shifting
transmission?
Thanks
Rush
Hi Rush (and all)
As far as I understand it, it is as follows:
The clutch normally removes the engine inertia and the engines' desire to
run at a fuel-driven speed from the gearbox input shaft. It does not remove
the ckutch friction plate inertia or the input shaft inertia.
When you go clutchless in an EV, and you are wanting to change gear, when
you remove motor drive power, the situation is the same as normal
declutching, except the inertia of the rotating mass is maybe 20 times that
originally.
In the gearbox the synchromesh 'clutches' drag the gears to the same speed
prior to engagement, so have to work 20 times harder.
But since you change gear 20 times less often in an EV, the synchromesh
life is unchanged.
James
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On May 2, 2005, at 6:42 PM, Nick Viera wrote:
twenty 8-volt batteries (Trojan T-875s), for a nominal pack voltage
of 160-volts.
Nick,
Just out of curiosity, what kind of range do you get with your vehicle
and this pack?
-Matt Holthausen
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I'm looking for a shunt in the 250 amp range, slightly more or less
would be fine I assume. I posted this here because I'm looking for a
used [read: cheaper] one. I'm broke.
--
Martin K
http://wwia.org/sgroup/biofuel/
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Normally, when you push the clutch pedal in and shift into another gear,
before the transmission can fully connect in the desired gear you have to
get the two sides to spin at the same rate. A synchronizer or "synchro"
does the trick, forcing the hopefully now disconnected flywheel to speed
up or slow down to match the new speed of the transmission.
Without a clutch, you're basically doing the same thing, except with a
(potentially much) heavier mass -- the armature, instead of the flywheel.
Expect more wear on your synchros as they need to bleed off more energy to
speed up or slow down all that iron and copper. For some makes of
transmission this is more a more serious concern than for others. Without
the use of a clutch (long story), the syncros in Mark Farver's MR2 didn't
take long to wear out completely, which as luck would have it, happened
when I was borrowing the car. He still hasn't forgiven me. Then again,
this is with a Kostov, which is not a small motor.
Also expect a longer delay going from one gear to the next. Some people
are ok with waiting a couple seconds; I personally feel that shifting
should take about a quarter of a second, or less if I'm in a sporting
mood.
Lots of successful conversions out there that go clutchless, and the added
efficiency is compelling, especially if you don't shift often.
--chris
Rush said:
> Could someone explain, step by step, how clutchless shifting works? Is it
> possible to remove the clutch pedal and still have a clutchless shifting
> transmission?
>
> Thanks
> Rush
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
As usual the listproc hamsters must be tired; it's taking forever for this
post to propagate back, but I thought I'd correct myself while I'm still
thinking about it... In the murky soup of unfocused rambling below,
where I say "flywheel", what I mean is just the friction disk, not the
flywheel and clutch assembly (which aren't connected to the transmission
when the clutch pedal is pressed). The difference in mass between this
lightweight friction disk and a motor armature is significant, and is why
shifting will take longer and be harder on your transmission.
--chris
---------------------------- Original Message ----------------------------
Subject: Re: clutchless shifting
From: "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Tue, May 3, 2005 10:16 pm
To: [email protected]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
Normally, when you push the clutch pedal in and shift into another gear,
before the transmission can fully connect in the desired gear you have to
get the two sides to spin at the same rate. A synchronizer or "synchro"
does the trick, forcing the hopefully now disconnected flywheel to speed
up or slow down to match the new speed of the transmission.
Without a clutch, you're basically doing the same thing, except with a
(potentially much) heavier mass -- the armature, instead of the flywheel.
Expect more wear on your synchros as they need to bleed off more energy to
speed up or slow down all that iron and copper. For some makes of
transmission this is more a more serious concern than for others. Without
the use of a clutch (long story), the syncros in Mark Farver's MR2 didn't
take long to wear out completely, which as luck would have it, happened
when I was borrowing the car. He still hasn't forgiven me. Then again,
this is with a Kostov, which is not a small motor.
Also expect a longer delay going from one gear to the next. Some people
are ok with waiting a couple seconds; I personally feel that shifting
should take about a quarter of a second, or less if I'm in a sporting
mood.
Lots of successful conversions out there that go clutchless, and the added
efficiency is compelling, especially if you don't shift often.
--chris
Rush said:
> Could someone explain, step by step, how clutchless shifting works? Is
it possible to remove the clutch pedal and still have a clutchless
shifting transmission?
>
> Thanks
> Rush
>
>
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At 11:18 PM 3/05/05 -0400, Martin K wrote:
I'm looking for a shunt in the 250 amp range, slightly more or less
would be fine I assume. I posted this here because I'm looking for a
used [read: cheaper] one. I'm broke.
Hi Martin
How many millivolts at 250A?
A shunt generates usually 50mV or 75mV for it's full scale continuous
current handling. What is your application?
I'd assume that you have a digital instrument that is scaleable? Or are you
just treating a meter as 100% is 250A (etc).
A shunt is just a low value resistor, if you have means of calibrating, and
don't want extreme accuracy, there is the option of making your own. 75mV
at 250A is 0.0003 ohms.
I've mislaid my printout of wire resistance for size for length, but for
example you may find that a certain size of wire gives 75mV across (say) 18
inches. You could make up a cable that is (say) 24 inches long, with a
tap-in point 3 inches in from each end. You can't put the sense wires into
the power crimps, you will get unpredictable errors. Now comes the hard
part - you have to put a known current through it, and see what your meter
(or whatever) reads, then calibrate accordingly.
I have only done this for a 50A circuit in a mobile home 'house' system. It
worked sufficiently well for their application.
James
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bruce parmenter wrote:
First the article says:
> e=motion vehicle packs 52 lead-acid batteries in its slender body
Then it says:
> Power comes from four packs of 52 lead-acid 12 V car batteries
> whose 600 V dc output
A bit misleading isn't it? Confusing none the less. 4 packs of 52?
208 batteries?
52 bats x 12volts = 624volts ?
Why do they only talk about 600 volts?
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Thanks for the entirely comprehensible explanation - makes perfect sense.
- Patrick
on 5/3/05 4:33 PM, David Roden rearranged random electrons to form the
words:
> Thus it makes sense that you can't receive an ack message if you are on
> digests; so by the listproc's definition ACK and DIGEST are contradictory
> requests. Of course it's up to the programmer who wrote the processor to
> decide what to do when contradictory requests arrive, so I guess this is a
> feature rather than a bug. <g>
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Maybe I am misreading your expression victor but I haven't owned a car
new or used that I didn't end up working on. Maybe this won't be the
case when we are all driving electrics.
I currently own a 95 grand am and a 88 misubishi truck (oh and the 300zx
in conversion) I have cursed at the 95 grand am engeeneers a lot,
apologies to any in earshot but they came up with double endend bolts on
the intake and stacked 2 or 3 items all under one nut. A person can't
take off the intake with all the little stuff mounted, first it must be
stripped.
Serpentine belt recomendation scheduled replace at 50K miles or so, I
asked the dealer cause I was busy , he thumbed thru the book then
groaned 34.95 for the belt 8 hours to install over $800. After screwing
with one of those double ended bolts that when backed out hit the strut
tower before comming out of the block to remove the alternator so I can
get to another bolt to free the belt from a 2 piece bracket that had
been welded togather at the bolt point, I cousulted the manual.
1. drop engine and tranny
2. replace belt
3. reinstall engine and tranny
4. align vehicle.
same vehicle rock thru radiator, ok how hard can it be to change a
radiator.....car from hell story available upon request.
What has happened is that I have learned, I won't by a car from GM for
many reasons now. And I see their tactics as the source of many of their
problems and this country's . Honda probably gets 4 to 8 customers thru
their drive bays in the time pontiac gets 1. Funny you should mention
TV's and you can add microwaves. everyone who knows I have fixed a few
now drop off their broken ones for me to fix, it is a curse.
I think we amercans need to start takeing some of hollywoods jokes about
americans as a little constructive critizm, If we don't increase the
service life of some of our equipment, we are gonna have to pay another
country to accept our landfill.
Hear is an idea.
The standard car interface group. Sets up documented standard
interfaces to transmissions and motors to insure competition and upgrades.
Like VESA, ISA, PCI... did for computers.
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At 10:41 PM 3/05/05 -0500, you wrote:
bruce parmenter wrote:
First the article says:
> e=motion vehicle packs 52 lead-acid batteries in its slender body
Then it says:
> Power comes from four packs of 52 lead-acid 12 V car batteries
> whose 600 V dc output
A bit misleading isn't it? Confusing none the less. 4 packs of 52?
208 batteries?
52 bats x 12volts = 624volts ?
Why do they only talk about 600 volts?
Because the inverter they are using is a 600V series, not a 400V (or other)
series. They may have 4 paralell strings, or they may have a single 624V
nominal string 600V split into 4 groups.
52 batteries would swing from around (10.5V per module) 546V to (14.4V per
module) 748V, so the "600V" is only nominal anyway. The AC
variable-frequency drives we use here (Australian 415V 3-phase) typically
have around 650V on the DC Buss, but when braking can get up to 750-800V,
depending on the system and braking (energy-dumping resistors).
James
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On 3 May 2005 at 22:04, Jim Coate wrote:
> The owner's manual has the details on the timer, but since it sounds
> like you have yet to get a full charge, you probably want more than 1-2
> hours.
The ET charger's timer is calibrated in YEARS, not hours!
Don't worry, it's not that slow. <g> This actually refers to the age of
the battery. GE's engineers assumed that newer batteries would have higher
capacity, thus they are charged longer.
The standard ET charger is pretty crude. It's one notch above a plain
transformer and rectifier charger in that it has a ferroresonant
transformer; this stabilizes its voltage and improves its power factor. But
with no real charge control, it's still as dumb as a stone. It pretty well
murders the ET's battery, but since most people use the tractor only once a
week or so on average, the battery still typically 5 years or so.
BTW, this discussion should really be moved over to the ET list where it's
(1) more on topic and (2) there are a lot more people with direct ET
experience who can help. Another good resource is elec-trak.org.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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