EV Digest 4335
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Serviceability (was electric heater core questions)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Brake Lines
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Non-isolated charger stuff
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Serviceability (was electric heater core questions)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
7) Re: Fwd: Re: clutchless shifting again
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) batteries
by mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:batteries?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Smarts in the US Future EV's and Serviceability
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Serviceability (was electric heater core questions)
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) =?iso-8859-1?Q?Re:_Batteries?=
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Freedom EV, was Re: Smarts in the US Future EV's
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
16) Kewet kwery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: clutchless shifting
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Freedom EV, was Re: Smarts in the US Future EV's
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: clutchless shifting
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: WTB: shunt
by "Maki, Garret" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Hybrid tech. Lithium
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Lithium chopper?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Hawker Military Auction
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> radiator.....car from hell story available upon request.
Please tell...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Try calling a local motorcycle shop. Many riders install stainless
steel braid covered brake lines. Or you may be able to match up to
a stock brake line if you know the length and have the original ends.
Ralph
John G. Lussmyer writes:
>
> Maybe somebody around here knows...
> I'm working on fixing a Sparrow that has melted brake lines. These were
> the metal-braid covered flex lines.
> Where do I go to get new ones - probably need to be custom made as well?
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everyone,
Lee wrote this:
One more thing; a non-isolated charger passes all AC line transient
right through to everything connected to their output -- that means all
the wiring in your EV, including the controller. 1000-volt transients
are common on the AC line, and can reach 6000 volts during
thunderstorms. Your controller isn't built to survive such events. So, I
would include a switch or contactors to disconnect BOTH positive and
negative wires between the battery pack and controller during charging.
I understand that this *can* happen. I'd like to know if anyone *has*
toasted anything due to these line transients?
-Ryan
--
- EV Source -
Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 3 May 2005 at 23:17, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Jeff Shanab wrote:
>
> > radiator.....car from hell story available upon request.
>
> Please tell...
>
Jeff, thanks and kudos to you for not posting an ICE topic on an EV list.
Please send your story to Ryan using private email.
Anyone else who wants the ICE car from hell story, please contact Jeff
privately. His email address is jshanab (at) earthlink (dot) net.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
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send me a private message, please use "evdl at drmm period net."
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, We have broken a charger or two developing application notes.
One you may want to read is at http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Appnote1R3.doc
dealing with generator startup transients.
Another image is at
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Craftsman%20genset%20voltage%20waveform.gif.
Both of these have been on the website since July 2002. They show the two
ways we have blown up PFC chargers. Be aware that both cases caused only the
COTS logic power supply to fail. The power stage in both cases survived.
Rich informed me that he recently damaged a PFC-50 power stage when he was
repeatedly abusing a 10kW genset governor.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Bohm" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:53 PM
Subject: Non-isolated charger stuff
> Hi Everyone,
>
> Lee wrote this:
>
> >One more thing; a non-isolated charger passes all AC line transient
> >right through to everything connected to their output -- that means all
> >the wiring in your EV, including the controller. 1000-volt transients
> >are common on the AC line, and can reach 6000 volts during
> >thunderstorms. Your controller isn't built to survive such events. So, I
> >would include a switch or contactors to disconnect BOTH positive and
> >negative wires between the battery pack and controller during charging.
> >
>
> I understand that this *can* happen. I'd like to know if anyone *has*
> toasted anything due to these line transients?
>
> -Ryan
> --
> - EV Source -
> Zillas, PFC Chargers, and other EV stuff at great prices
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, We have broken a charger or two developing application notes.
>
> One you may want to read is at
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Appnote1R3.doc
> dealing with generator startup transients.
>
> Another image is at
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/Craftsman%20genset%20voltage%20waveform.gif.
>
> Both of these have been on the website since July 2002. They show the two
> ways we have blown up PFC chargers. Be aware that both cases caused
> only the
> COTS logic power supply to fail. The power stage in both cases survived.
>
> Rich informed me that he recently damaged a PFC-50 power stage when he was
> repeatedly abusing a 10kW genset governor.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Another example of "We blow things up so you don't have to" - that's what seems
to happen to anyone who hangs around Plasma Boy for any length of time. Should
Victor avoid John to protect his products' rep, or is that just superstitious?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Could you rewrite the entire explanation?
I'm having trouble following it
--- Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> As usual the listproc hamsters must be tired; it's
> taking forever for this
> post to propagate back, but I thought I'd correct
> myself while I'm still
> thinking about it... In the murky soup of
> unfocused rambling below,
> where I say "flywheel", what I mean is just the
> friction disk, not the
> flywheel and clutch assembly (which aren't connected
> to the transmission
> when the clutch pedal is pressed). The difference
> in mass between this
> lightweight friction disk and a motor armature is
> significant, and is why
> shifting will take longer and be harder on your
> transmission.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> ---------------------------- Original Message
> ----------------------------
> Subject: Re: clutchless shifting
> From: "Christopher Robison"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, May 3, 2005 10:16 pm
> To: [email protected]
>
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Normally, when you push the clutch pedal in and
> shift into another gear,
> before the transmission can fully connect in the
> desired gear you have to
> get the two sides to spin at the same rate. A
> synchronizer or "synchro"
> does the trick, forcing the hopefully now
> disconnected flywheel to speed
> up or slow down to match the new speed of the
> transmission.
>
> Without a clutch, you're basically doing the same
> thing, except with a
> (potentially much) heavier mass -- the armature,
> instead of the flywheel.
> Expect more wear on your synchros as they need to
> bleed off more energy to
> speed up or slow down all that iron and copper. For
> some makes of
> transmission this is more a more serious concern
> than for others. Without
> the use of a clutch (long story), the syncros in
> Mark Farver's MR2 didn't
> take long to wear out completely, which as luck
> would have it, happened
> when I was borrowing the car. He still hasn't
> forgiven me. Then again,
> this is with a Kostov, which is not a small motor.
>
> Also expect a longer delay going from one gear to
> the next. Some people
> are ok with waiting a couple seconds; I personally
> feel that shifting
> should take about a quarter of a second, or less if
> I'm in a sporting
> mood.
>
> Lots of successful conversions out there that go
> clutchless, and the added
> efficiency is compelling, especially if you don't
> shift often.
>
> --chris
>
>
>
>
> Rush said:
> > Could someone explain, step by step, how
> clutchless shifting works? Is
> it possible to remove the clutch pedal and still
> have a clutchless
> shifting transmission?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Rush
> >
> >
>
>
>
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http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&rssid=8334
I wonder which battery technology is going to win out.
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Maybe Lipoly, actual price for 3.7V12Ah cell are $27 :^)
Philippe
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : [email protected]
Cc :
Date : Wed, 4 May 2005 01:30:17 -0700 (PDT)
Subject : batteries
http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&rssid=8334
I wonder which battery technology is going to win out.
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Hi Mark and All,
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi Jerry,
> Are you sure it's $25k? When I was in Monaco a
> couple weeks ago and it
> seamed like EVery one was driving one (well
The quoted price was for someone importing them in
diesel trim was about $23K and add a few options, tax,
tag and title, ect and yes, that's the price. A bit
steep for such a small car!
The exchange rate is killing them with the Euro up
almost 50% against the dollar!! Now, if they build
them here, the price could come down a lot!!!
Someone is tryinmg to import EV versions using
Zebra batts but I'll believe it when I see them.
But this matters little to me as I'll have mine
out before then at a much lower costs, like $13k base
price in a larger, more comfortable and better aero
body.
Though if the Zebra batt works and is available,
it could easily be put in the Freedom EV as any future
batt, motor, controller, ect can be. So I'm hoping
they make it here!!
And much better serviceability in the Freedom EV
with everything easily fixed, upgraded or replaced in
minutes by the owner or mechanic. Most parts will be
industrual or other widely available so that's no
problem.
Did a modification of the mold for better aero,
more strength, better looking so that's taken a little
longer but still on time to get finished ones out in
3-4 months.
But as for Zap geting Smarts out, I doubt it!! But
if someone else and there are several trying, gets
Smart's approved for import to the US, then anyone
else can import them too easily for conversions, ect.
They would sell here but as you say, must be a
lot cheaper!!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> thousands on the road), I
> stopped in a Mercedes dealer nearby and they said it
> was $10k Euros or $13k
> US. Probably a couple $k for shipping though. The
> trick would be to buy
> some on the used market over there and get them
> shipped/approved here and
> use for conversions. If I was stationed over there,
> I could probably buy
> one through the local paper from an individual and
> ship if they're now
> approved here for licensing. I think realistically
> these need to be under
> $10k US to sell. I'd love to have one though after
> being in one.
> Have a nice day, Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:37 PM
> Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
>
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stu, Joe and All,
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the back part of a leaning trike rolled over, I
> suspect the pivot was too
> high and the track width was too narrow for the
> corner being attempted. I
> will reserve my opinion until I see the video.
I agree. They use this vid on the tilting list to
discredit Lean Machine, Honda Gyro type tilters but it
doesn't impress me.
I drive a 1f2r tilter almost every day in the form
of a Honda Gyro 49cc MC with 2 rear wheels that stay
flat to the road with a 15.5" track and a front part
that pivots like a motorcycle low and just forward of
the transaxle with a spring/shock there.
It handles great, more stable, better braking
than a reg MC!!! I love it!!
I want to build an aero cabin EV based on the
Gyro's tilting design and the Lean Machines body.
Could get 75mph and 100 mile range on lead batts from
the very good aero!!!
>
> Your website is not working tonight. I can try again
> tomorrow.
Works for me this morning.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Joe,
> >
> > Good questions.
> >
> > A single bearing lean steer requires a castor
> angle for the head angle.
> > The problem with this lean steer system is that
> you get the same angle at
> > all speeds.
Mine does too if I understand you right and works
great, Honda did their homework on this and has been
built for 20+ yrs though only sold in the US for 3
yrs.
> >
> > I am building a 2 bearing lean and independent
> steer system. I have never
> > seen it done before. The steering will be done by
Maybe a reason?
> feet only. The
> > throttles, brakes, and leaning will be controlled
> by semi vertical bars
> > connected to the rear part. I plan to hold myself
> at any angle by
> pressure
> > between the 2 bars. The horizontal bearing would
> allow me to go straight
> > and lean as well (not used).
Your high pivot has me worried as to make it more
work trying to keep the front it upright.
I'd either go for a low pivot like the Gyro or
move the aft pivot down to the chassis and another in
front down to the front of the batt box.
With your feet down at the front wheel, wet is
going to be a problem. And no matter what you will
need to hold on to handholds attached to the frame for
balance, tilt control.
I'd also make a little more ground clearance and
share Joe's worry about the wheels taking the side
loads. Even if the rims, their bearing can handle it
which is iffy, the tires are not designed for that
much weight, side stress either,
Gorilla EV has a nice small MC front end that
could work for higher speeds.
So too summerize, I'd go for Gyro style more
normal MC steering, tilt with a pivot, spring/shoch to
the motors tray and you could go much faster with that
kind of power. With an aero body that power could move
you very fast!!
Over 20 mph without suspension is not conductive
to long life of either your back or your wheels,
frame.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> >
> > I have a video of a powered leaning trike that a
> test rider flipped. As
> he
> > was leaning and steering in a left turn, the back
> part rotated and it
> > flipped over to the right. I believe that if he
> had control of the back
> by
> > something like my vertical bars idea, he would not
> have crashed. If you
> > like, I can send the video to you.
> >
> > As for wheels and lateral loads, see my recumbent
> trike file also at
> > www.stulieberman.com ($100 elevator is there as
> well).
> >
> > Trikes that use 20" or smaller diameter bicycle
> wheels are never bothered
> by
> > lateral force damage. Most commercial tadpole
> trikes use 20" spoked
> wheels
> > and they go downhill as fast as 60 mph. However,
> look out when using
> spoked
> > 26" or 27" wheels as they can cause a 'side' trip.
> >
> > Thanks for looking and for commenting.
> >
> > BoyntonStu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 12:37 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
> >
> > I thought the leaning bearing axis needed to be
> aligned with the tire
> patch
> > of the front tire.
> >
> > It looks like it is parallel to the ground.
> >
> > Are you sure this is right?
> >
> > Where is that website and video of the tilting
> trike to show how they did
> > it?
> >
> > Are the rear wheels rated to take the lateral
> force of a trike? It looks
> > like they were designed for a tilting two wheeler.
> Three wheelers need
> > stronger wheels than two wheelers because of the
> increased side load in
> > three wheeler applications.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV LIST" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:32 PM
> > Subject: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
> >
> >
> > > Visit www.stulieberman.com
> <http://www.stulieberman.com/> and view
> > hybrid
> > > trike folder.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Some details:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 6-33 AH wheelchair batteries
> > >
> > > 6.5 HP B&S I/C engine powers left rear
> > >
> > > 8" 36V 80 Amp motor to be run at 48 V
> > >
> > > 12.5" wheels and frames from 2 scooters
> > >
> > > Battery case and engine/motor mount from bed
> frames angle
> > >
> > > Oxy/acet and oxy/propane brazing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Notice 2 headsets and 2 forks: horizontal
> headset/fork #1 for leaning
> in
> > > turns, #2 fork
> > >
> > > For steering.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Curtis 36-48 1204 Controller
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Boyntonstu
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
On 5/4/05, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Maybe I am misreading your expression victor but I haven't owned a car
> new or used that I didn't end up working on. Maybe this won't be the
> case when we are all driving electrics.
I was just thinking about this, because I recently bought a (French)
factory made EV. Before doing this, I found out as much as I could
about how serviceable it was going to be.
The answer? Not very!
Battery watering light comes on? That's a 48 hour visit to the dealer
and a service charge.
Problem with the charger or controller? Not looking good - it's all
integrated in a big box, the technical manual shows how to disconnect
the wires and lift the whole thing out to replace it.
Still, it's a good car, and there's not much in the way of an
alternative, so I bought it. At least there *is* a dealer nearby, and
I can pay to get these things done. Meanwhile I am trying to obtain
the necessary diagnostic/control tool to allow me to run the
maintenance charge, for watering it myself. And spares of the major
components are occasionally available, when cars are broken up
(usually in France).
In theory, being an EV, nothing much apart from the battery and
brushes should be subject to wearing out anyway. Fingers crossed.
Apart from the EV side, I replaced a wing (fender) and was pleased to
find that on the Citroen they are bolted on rather than welded, as I
was used to with my previous Ford car.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Maybe Lipoly, actual price for 3.7V12Ah cell are $27 :^)
>
> Philippe
>
>>
>> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&rssid=8334
>>
>> I wonder which battery technology is going to win out.
>>
Getting >3000 cycles would be nice, but at what discharge rate? As for...
"Aurbach and his team are currently looking for ways to increase the energy
density of their magnesium batteries. Idea One anticipates that with additional
research, the energy density of rechargeable magnesium batteries can be
increased by 50%, and believes there may be a possibility of developing
magnesium batteries with working potentials higher than 1.5V and a theoretical
energy density higher than 200 Wh/Kg making them ideal for use as an electric
vehicle battery."
...a common li-ion 18650 cell averages 45gm/3.6V/2.0Ah (2.4Ah/49gm for others)
with 2-2.5C pk disch, and at least one listee has reported abusing some
1950gm/3.7V/70Ah Kokam li-polys with 8-10C pk disch, so we can already get
133-160 Wh/Kg *outside* the lab...now if we could just afford them!
P.S.- Philippe, I hope you're not quoting the li-poly cells from GM Battery,
because *those* only handle peak discharges of 2C:
http://www.gmbattery.com/production/dl/cpNew/PL10ICP06_83-116-3.pdf.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
---------- Initial Header -----------
>From : [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To : EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
Cc :
Date : Wed, 4 May 2005 03:29:07 -0700
Subject : Re: Batteries
>> Maybe Lipoly, actual price for 3.7V12Ah cell are $27 :^)
>>
>>Philippe
>
>
> http://www.evworld.com/view.cfm?section=communique&rssid=8334
>
> I wonder which battery technology is going to win out.
>
>>>P.S.- Philippe, I hope you're not quoting the li-poly cells >>>from GM
>>>Battery,
>>>because *those* only handle peak discharges of 2C:
>>>http://www.gmbattery.com/production/dl/cpNew/PL10ICP06_83-116->>>3.pdf
No
6C average.
they are from R/C lipoly cells world which is more than 10C continuous but
these are "made" to be energy not power cells.
Philippe
just a question of time...
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> ... But this matters little to me as I'll have mine
> out before then at a much lower costs, like $13k base
> price in a larger, more comfortable and better aero
> body.
> ...
> Did a modification of the mold for better aero,
> more strength, better looking so that's taken a little
> longer but still on time to get finished ones out in
> 3-4 months.
So what is the timeline for finished models to be available? Through what
marketing channel do you intend to sell them - even if you have your own site,
why not include the EV Tradin' Post so Mike finally gets something more than
pocket change for all his work?
Is this going to be a 3-seater (2+1), 'cuz I'd want one as a glider to accept my
16 100Ah NiCds out of the Kewet, along with a ZAPI 96V SepEx controller (and
find an appropriate motor).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't get any response from the Kewet Yahoo group, so I'll pose my question
here:
The original setup for a Eljet 3 in the US was 48v, with a Curtis series
controller, and a compound motor. The car starts off with both fields in use,
then at 15mph, a relay drops out the shunt field. The relay (not a contactor)
is in the circuit with the shunt field, and actually sits under the dash, so
it's not very high current.
I want to run this car with a 96V SepEx controller (and 96V of NiCds), but even
with a new dc-dc converter, I wonder if any of the electronics expect 48V, and
if it will help acceleration, I'd also like to use both fields from takeoff
then drop the *series field* out at 15mph. I have the appropriately-hefty
2-circuit contactor, and the motor can handle it (~3000rpm at 48V, rated to
9000rpm), but I really don't want to fry another motor -- being a poor
mechanic, I sold my other Kewet rather than attempt an amateur dismantling
after a trial with a sepex controller burnt the com (lost only a little on the
sale, which is rare in selling used EVs!)
You can contact me directly if you think you'll have too much to post here:
cowtown at spamcop dot net
Russell
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> No
> 6C average.
> they are from R/C lipoly cells world which is more than 10C continuous but
these are "made" to be energy not power cells.
>
> Philippe
> just a question of time...
~$610/Kwh is about NiCd price range, but I hope they sell bigger ones - take it
from me, paralleling up little cells is for the birds!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This depends if you can go smoothly from a forward gear to the reversed gear
with out a clutch and the motor a 0 RPM. If you are in a forward gear and want
to go in reversed, you may have to give it a little rpm. Even at that, it may
not want to go into the gears with out a little force.
I prefer to have a clutch, for two reasons. I initially put it in gear which
is the final 1:1 ratio forward gear, that may stay in that gear all day long.
Only have to clutch it to make go in more smoothly into reversed.
The next reason, is that my EV can be put into a IDLE mode for the adjustments
of the accessories that is driven off the pilot shaft of the motor and for
conditioning and resurfacing the commentator and inspection of the brushes and
mechanical connections.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Christopher Robison<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 9:16 PM
Subject: Re: clutchless shifting
Normally, when you push the clutch pedal in and shift into another gear,
before the transmission can fully connect in the desired gear you have to
get the two sides to spin at the same rate. A synchronizer or "synchro"
does the trick, forcing the hopefully now disconnected flywheel to speed
up or slow down to match the new speed of the transmission.
Without a clutch, you're basically doing the same thing, except with a
(potentially much) heavier mass -- the armature, instead of the flywheel.
Expect more wear on your synchros as they need to bleed off more energy to
speed up or slow down all that iron and copper. For some makes of
transmission this is more a more serious concern than for others. Without
the use of a clutch (long story), the syncros in Mark Farver's MR2 didn't
take long to wear out completely, which as luck would have it, happened
when I was borrowing the car. He still hasn't forgiven me. Then again,
this is with a Kostov, which is not a small motor.
Also expect a longer delay going from one gear to the next. Some people
are ok with waiting a couple seconds; I personally feel that shifting
should take about a quarter of a second, or less if I'm in a sporting
mood.
Lots of successful conversions out there that go clutchless, and the added
efficiency is compelling, especially if you don't shift often.
--chris
Rush said:
> Could someone explain, step by step, how clutchless shifting works? Is it
> possible to remove the clutch pedal and still have a clutchless shifting
> transmission?
>
> Thanks
> Rush
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Cowtown and All,
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > ... But this matters little to me as I'll have
> mine
> > out before then at a much lower costs, like $13k
> base
> > price in a larger, more comfortable and better
> aero
> > body.
> > ...
> > Did a modification of the mold for better
> aero,
> > more strength, better looking so that's taken a
> little
> > longer but still on time to get finished ones out
> in
> > 3-4 months.
>
> So what is the timeline for finished models to be
available? 3-4 months
Through what
> marketing channel do you intend to sell them - even
Factory direct only in Fla.
> if you have your own site,
Want to get at least a rolling chassis before
doing a site. Though there is a EVProduction Wiki up.
I'm still looking for suspension parts but mostly
for a source of lightweight, low cost spindle, disc
brake, hub set up to use.
> why not include the EV Tradin' Post so Mike finally
> gets something more than
> pocket change for all his work?
Well they are already pretty much sold for the
first few gliders and only want to sell to compentent
people who know what they are getting into for the
first 10 or so beta EV's as I find out what works and
what needs improvement.
But after the first ones to set the production line
up, could ramp up easily to 1/day or even to 5/day in
a couple months after that.
>
> Is this going to be a 3-seater (2+1), 'cuz I'd want
2 seat, though a kids small seat could be put in.
> one as a glider to accept my
> 16 100Ah NiCds out of the Kewet, along with a ZAPI
> 96V SepEx controller (and
> find an appropriate motor).
I'd like to find a good SepEx motor, controller
myself but hard to beat series on price, power. And as
direct drive, you need power!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You can shift perfectly from gear to gear without a clutch. You just need
to syncronize the speed yourself. Always shift at the same speed and figure
out the pressure you need on the throttle. If you do it right the shifter
will feel like it is being sucked into the next gear and will not make
clashing noises. You syncros will last much longer. Sports cars were raced
without syncros using a clutch and it was hard not to clash. The drivers
simply revved the motor to help. Worked then & it will work now. Lawrence
Rhodes....
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Check out
http://www.allelectronics.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi?query=&type=store&categor
y=385&orderby=INVENTORY%2Estore%5Fquantity%2CORGANIZATION%2Ecategory%2CINVEN
TORY%2Ebrand%2CINVENTORY%2Emodel&start=16&limitcategory=&template=&searchfie
lds=&match=&searchtype=
200A shunt $16
200A meter $12
-Garret
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 8:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: WTB: shunt
At 11:18 PM 3/05/05 -0400, Martin K wrote:
>I'm looking for a shunt in the 250 amp range, slightly more or less
>would be fine I assume. I posted this here because I'm looking for a
>used [read: cheaper] one. I'm broke.
Hi Martin
How many millivolts at 250A?
A shunt generates usually 50mV or 75mV for it's full scale continuous
current handling. What is your application?
I'd assume that you have a digital instrument that is scaleable? Or are you
just treating a meter as 100% is 250A (etc).
A shunt is just a low value resistor, if you have means of calibrating, and
don't want extreme accuracy, there is the option of making your own. 75mV
at 250A is 0.0003 ohms.
I've mislaid my printout of wire resistance for size for length, but for
example you may find that a certain size of wire gives 75mV across (say) 18
inches. You could make up a cable that is (say) 24 inches long, with a
tap-in point 3 inches in from each end. You can't put the sense wires into
the power crimps, you will get unpredictable errors. Now comes the hard
part - you have to put a known current through it, and see what your meter
(or whatever) reads, then calibrate accordingly.
I have only done this for a 50A circuit in a mobile home 'house' system. It
worked sufficiently well for their application.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.hybridtechnologies.com/index.php
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.thecahp.org/vnews/display.v
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.drms.dla.mil/catalog/pdf/33-5012.pdf
Here you go all you Wa state EVers...
Hawkers up for auction
17. Battery, Storage:
HAWKER ENERGY
Non spillable wet lead acid battery, assembled date 08/02.
NSN 6140-01-131-8104
DEMIL CODE A
CONTACT: JAYE CURRY PHONE: 253-966-3168
Inside - UAE020101B0
Packed in original cardboard cartons, stored loose on pallet,
which is not included in weight and sale.
Used - Containers in good condition
Total Cost - $2880.06
Est Total Wt - 174 lbs.
DOT HAZ CLASS: 8
6 EACH
At Fort Lewis
Good luck
Rush
Note the pallet is not included in the sale.... ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of jerry dycus
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:28 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
Hi Stu, Joe and All,
--- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If the back part of a leaning trike rolled over, I
> suspect the pivot was too
> high and the track width was too narrow for the
> corner being attempted. I
> will reserve my opinion until I see the video.
I agree. They use this vid on the tilting list to
discredit Lean Machine, Honda Gyro type tilters but it
doesn't impress me.
I drive a 1f2r tilter almost every day in the form
of a Honda Gyro 49cc MC with 2 rear wheels that stay
flat to the road with a 15.5" track and a front part
that pivots like a motorcycle low and just forward of
the transaxle with a spring/shock there.
It handles great, more stable, better braking
than a reg MC!!! I love it!!
I want to build an aero cabin EV based on the
Gyro's tilting design and the Lean Machines body.
Could get 75mph and 100 mile range on lead batts from
the very good aero!!!
>
> Your website is not working tonight. I can try again
> tomorrow.
Works for me this morning.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > Joe,
> >
> > Good questions.
> >
> > A single bearing lean steer requires a castor
> angle for the head angle.
> > The problem with this lean steer system is that
> you get the same angle at
> > all speeds.
Mine does too if I understand you right and works
great, Honda did their homework on this and has been
built for 20+ yrs though only sold in the US for 3
yrs.
Do you mind hard leaning in slow turns?
> >
> > I am building a 2 bearing lean and independent
> steer system. I have never
> > seen it done before. The steering will be done by
Maybe a reason? The idea is simple to achieve independent lean and
steer.
Do you think that the relatively high position of my horizontal axis will be
a major problem?
> feet only. The
> > throttles, brakes, and leaning will be controlled
> by semi vertical bars
> > connected to the rear part. I plan to hold myself
> at any angle by
> pressure
> > between the 2 bars. The horizontal bearing would
> allow me to go straight
> > and lean as well (not used).
Your high pivot has me worried as to make it more
work trying to keep the front it upright.
I'd either go for a low pivot like the Gyro or
move the aft pivot down to the chassis and another in
front down to the front of the batt box.
Please elaborate here. Why 2 pivots ? As low as possible?
With your feet down at the front wheel, wet is
going to be a problem. Wet? As in water going up legs?
And no matter what you will
need to hold on to handholds attached to the frame for
balance, tilt control.
Yes and to keep pressure on the electrical deadmans switch.
I'd also make a little more ground clearance and
share Joe's worry about the wheels taking the side
loads. Even if the rims, their bearing can handle it
which is iffy, the tires are not designed for that
much weight, side stress either,
The tires easily take 400 pound using 2 on a scooter at 50 mph.
With the 3 tires, the rating is even more secure.
Gorilla EV has a nice small MC front end that
could work for higher speeds.
So too summerize, I'd go for Gyro style more
normal MC steering, tilt with a pivot, spring/shoch to
the motors tray and you could go much faster with that
kind of power. With an aero body that power could move
you very fast!!
Over 20 mph without suspension is not conductive
to long life of either your back or your wheels,
frame.
My recumbent trike goes about 29 mph with no added suspension. Very
comfortable due to the chassis flex. I am basing this design on my past
experience. Have you seen my GX-31 trike at my web site?
Thanks again,
Stu
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
> >
> > I have a video of a powered leaning trike that a
> test rider flipped. As
> he
> > was leaning and steering in a left turn, the back
> part rotated and it
> > flipped over to the right. I believe that if he
> had control of the back
> by
> > something like my vertical bars idea, he would not
> have crashed. If you
> > like, I can send the video to you.
> >
> > As for wheels and lateral loads, see my recumbent
> trike file also at
> > www.stulieberman.com ($100 elevator is there as
> well).
> >
> > Trikes that use 20" or smaller diameter bicycle
> wheels are never bothered
> by
> > lateral force damage. Most commercial tadpole
> trikes use 20" spoked
> wheels
> > and they go downhill as fast as 60 mph. However,
> look out when using
> spoked
> > 26" or 27" wheels as they can cause a 'side' trip.
> >
> > Thanks for looking and for commenting.
> >
> > BoyntonStu
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 12:37 AM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Re: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
> >
> > I thought the leaning bearing axis needed to be
> aligned with the tire
> patch
> > of the front tire.
> >
> > It looks like it is parallel to the ground.
> >
> > Are you sure this is right?
> >
> > Where is that website and video of the tilting
> trike to show how they did
> > it?
> >
> > Are the rear wheels rated to take the lateral
> force of a trike? It looks
> > like they were designed for a tilting two wheeler.
> Three wheelers need
> > stronger wheels than two wheelers because of the
> increased side load in
> > three wheeler applications.
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> >
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: "EV LIST" <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Sunday, May 01, 2005 4:32 PM
> > Subject: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
> >
> >
> > > Visit www.stulieberman.com
> <http://www.stulieberman.com/> and view
> > hybrid
> > > trike folder.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Some details:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > 6-33 AH wheelchair batteries
> > >
> > > 6.5 HP B&S I/C engine powers left rear
> > >
> > > 8" 36V 80 Amp motor to be run at 48 V
> > >
> > > 12.5" wheels and frames from 2 scooters
> > >
> > > Battery case and engine/motor mount from bed
> frames angle
> > >
> > > Oxy/acet and oxy/propane brazing
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Notice 2 headsets and 2 forks: horizontal
> headset/fork #1 for leaning
> in
> > > turns, #2 fork
> > >
> > > For steering.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Curtis 36-48 1204 Controller
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Boyntonstu
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
__________________________________________________
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--- End Message ---
