EV Digest 4338
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: clutchless shifting
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Dont try this at home.. was Re: Clutchless shifting
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Harbor freight find
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: 8" vs 9"
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) DANGIT! Old 600A Raptor let the smoke out.today
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Article on how to make your own shunts
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Article on how to make your own shunts
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Smarts in the US
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Cause of multiple messages.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Cause of multiple messages.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 8" vs 9"
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) British Attempt Land Speed Record/EVs Over 2200lbs.
by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) TdS Report #21: 2005 Tour de Sol Offers Solutions to Energy Crisis
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
22) Re: GFCI with PFC?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Robison wrote:
> I have tried this, and FWIW I can report that it is EXTREMELY
> difficult, and requires lots of practice. I find it's *much*
> harder in an EV than it is with a gas engine.
What kind of car? (Some cars are much easier than others)
Did it still have the flywheel as an EV? (Keeping the flywheel makes it
take a long time for the electric motor to spin down when upshifting)
Have you had any experience driving vehicles that did not have
synchromesh transmissions (trucks, tractors, old sports cars, etc.)
As a youth, I spent a lot of time driving my friend's 1957 MGA, which
had no synchronizers. Double clutching and no-clutch shifting became
second nature. You're right -- you have to learn how to do it -- but
it's possible!
My ComutaVan was clutchess and had no flywheel at all. It was quite easy
to shift, though it took a second or two for the synchronizers to bring
the gears to the same speed.
My Renault LeCar EV has a clutch and flywheel. However, I am so used to
shifting without a clutch that I do it routinely all the time anyway.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman wrote:
> I need to thank Lee for the paranoia on this one.
> I know Lee is right, But..... I have not had a charger get popped
> with 6000 volt transients, SheesH! Lee, that would jump inches of
> clear air.
The 6000 volt limit comes from UL's "ringwave" test, which is a
simulated lightning strike on a powerline somewhere. They use it to test
equipment to see what would happen in case of a real hit. They don't
expect the equipment to survive -- but it must fail safe! No explosions,
fires, etc. allowed!
They use 6000 volts as the limit because any higher voltage will arc
over somewhere before it gets past your home's fusebox. In other words,
the product under test won't see it; something ahead of it will take the
"hit".
If you ever want to get your charger UL listed, you will need to do a
ringwave test to insure that it fails safe (won't kill anyone or burn
down their house) in case of a lightning strike.
The next level is the UL "hipot" (high potential) test. They apply 1000
volts plus 2 times the nominal AC line voltage (thus 1250v for things
plugged into a 120v outlet, 1500v for things plugged into 240vac, etc.).
Your device has to withstand this voltage for a minute with no
breakdowns or damage. They picked this level because there are typically
transients on the AC line of this magnitude on an almost daily basis.
Just switching off a large motor or transformer can produce transients
of this magnitude.
So again, if you ever expect to get UL listing on your charger, it would
have to pass a hipot test.
Here is where it gets interesting...
What about the components in your EV? The traction motor, controller,
DC/DC converter, etc? Will they survive a ringwave or hipot test? The
answer is PROBABLY NOT!
They aren't built to do so. They assume much lower voltages, and
isolation from the powerline, so they would never see such transients.
Big DC motors have exposed uninsulated brush wiring; carbon dust from
brush wear powders the surfaces, and you have a leakage path that will
arc over at anything more than a few hundred volts. They are also wide
open to the atmosphere, and can easily get wet inside from driving in
the rain or condensation. Curtis controllers only have a single layer of
insulation, just a few thousandths of an inch thick, between their
MOSFETs and the case.
If you connect a non-isolated charger to an EVs electrical system, and
there is a thousand-volt transient on the AC line, the charger itself
may survive it. But, all the rest of the wiring in the EV will see this
voltage, too. You could easily arc thru the insulation to ground in your
controller, DC/DC, motor, etc.
> I don't have stuff dying right and left from 1000 volt spikes...
> So... those power line spikes are not nearly as prevalent as
> some believe.
It all depends on your location. Are you lucky enough to have solid,
clean power lines -- or are you at the far end of miles of wire? Is your
distribution grid nice and new, or ancient heavily-loaded stuff
installed before WW2? Do you live in a place with lots of thunderstorms,
or lots of high-powered industrial plants nearby? Is your EV or charger
the "weak link" in your home, or is there some other device that is even
more prone to break down first, and so "take the hit" instead?
> Controller sees charging currents, and line spikes? not very likely
> when most of us have the controller isolated from the pack while
> it's being charged.
I don't know how many people wired their EVs so the controller and motor
are completely disconnected from the pack during charging (BOTH positive
and negative). I do! I recommend everyone do it! But that doesn't mean
everyone does so. I have seen lots of EVs that leave the negative side
of the pack permanently connected to the controller (which indirectly
connects it to the motor, too).
> And the pack looks like a few Farads of capacitor when it is connected
> to the charger.
Transients and lightning are generally common-mode. That is, both hot
and neutral wires SIMULTANEOUSLY spike up thousands of volts above
ground. So, the breakdowns generally occur between either hot and
neutral and GROUND. Line-to-line MOVs, capacitors, and batteries won't
help against this.
Please understand that all this is a "what if..." situation. It won't
happen today, it won't happen tomorrow. But if you charge your EV every
day for years, sooner or later it WILL happen. When it does... would you
rather that it just blow a fuse or explode an MOV -- or kill your
controller or short out your motor?
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Will this fancy display reduce range?
>
> http://img228.echo.cx/img228/1084/indash5be.jpg
>
> I can't imagine how it won't vs's just having an analog voltage and
> ammeter..
>
>
Sure, it will reduce your range by as much as 6 inches.
If this is a significant problem for you, I'd suggest buying a bicycle.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roland, I hope you don't use the clutch to create this IDLE mode and
instead put the tranny in neutral
Most clutches default to engaged and the pilot bearings are not made for
continous use. The little bronze bushing would get hot, sieze and drive
the tranny or the clutch pedal could snap ( or loose pressure if
hydraulicly operated ) and wham you are bug on your own windshield!
I had an old 4x4 and was just putting it in gear at a stoplight when the
clutch linkage just broke, lucky the light had turned green and the
little VW had begun to move, or I would of creamed him I was really
embarrased and disiplined my self not to ever sit clutch in again, just
relax and put it back in neutral.
Something was said about the inertia of the electric motor being greater
than the ICE that through me, I though it was actually less, just that
there is none of the natural "engine breaking" of the Ice to help slow
it down. I thought the vary reason they added flywheels to ICE was the
reason we don't need them, smooth continous torque, not 2,3, or 4
explosions at 90 degree intervals. So why not tie some thing to the aux
shaft ( like an AC compressor or PM generator) and activate it on clutch
pedal as well as on brake pedal, then it helps shifting, recovers energy
during breaking and doubly so when panic stopping .
I think this would probably be a good application for ultra caps and a
small dc-dc converter. just let wild amps in past a diode at whatever
volts you can and let the dc-dc slowly pump it into the pack while you sit.
Trick to "speed shifting" is lightweight syncros, close ratios, and to
reduced drag in tranny, My truck is very difficult to speed shift, but
change to red-line oil and it is easier, but the ratios don't overlap
correctly, not "close ratio" enough so it still is a waste of time
compared to say the opel I had that only needed the clutch off the line.
Great tranny could hold in one hand, and change in 45 min, but I also
broke 5 or 6 of them :-( (not from learning to speed shift, honest)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i want to put one of these on my bicycle
--- Peter VanDerWal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Will this fancy display reduce range?
> >
> > http://img228.echo.cx/img228/1084/indash5be.jpg
> >
> > I can't imagine how it won't vs's just having an
> analog voltage and
> > ammeter..
> >
> >
>
> Sure, it will reduce your range by as much as 6
> inches.
>
> If this is a significant problem for you, I'd
> suggest buying a bicycle.
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site!
http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was at harbor freight this weekend and something on the wall caught my
eye that some people may find usefull.
Line splitter 4.99 it is a molded plastic item with a standard 15
amp plug on one end and receptical in the other.
Two square holes will allow use of a clamp on ammeter for the AC side of
chargers during opertunity charging, one hole is labeled 1X and the
other is labeled 10X
I have done something like this before with a block of wood and romex
just to see how many amps my computer pulled so I could size an inverter
for a car.
http://www.harborfreight.com/ enter "line splitter" pn 92072-0VGA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You will lose a small amount of torque, for starters.
The extra 1" of armature makes a slight difference.
--- mike golub <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hello
>
> I recntly received a free 1986 Toyota 4x4. It weighs
> 3100, but I need to get it to the scale to see what
> it
> is at after the bed is removed.
>
> I was wondering what I would loose if I used the 8"
> motor. I was thinking my finished weight would be
> able
> 3800 lbs.
>
> Is it possible to burn out the motor, or it will
> never
> get to 55 mph. I really don't need it to go much
> faster.
>
> Also I live in Alaska, and I have issues get stuff
> shipped up here that weigh more than 150 lbs. Does
> the
> 9" motor weigh exactly 150? You'd think they'd
> design
> so it was shippable vs truckable.
>
> Can the housing be taken off, and shipped in two
> containers?
>
> Are there any other motors that can be used that are
> similiar to the 9" but perhaps doesn't weigh as
> much?
>
> E.A. says it will take two months to make the
> adapter
> plate for this truck, unless someone has one laying
> around?
>
> Thanks
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If anyone is keeping count, I'm another customer now
to upgrade the 600A Raptor to a 1200 Peter Senkowski
model. That gives me only 2K miles on a refurb'd one. Ouch.
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail Mobile
Take Yahoo! Mail with you! Check email on your mobile phone.
http://mobile.yahoo.com/learn/mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/shunts/shunts.html
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I think the high location of the pivot is going to be a problem.
The pivot in the video was low and he had to push it pretty hard to get it
to roll. The higher the pivot, the less you need to lean into the corner to
get the rear to roll.
I think the spring/shock Jerry talks about is the righting spring I spoke
about in an earlier post.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 8:00 AM
Subject: RE: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of jerry dycus
> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 6:28 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Progress on my Hybrid Trike
>
> Hi Stu, Joe and All,
> --- Joe Smalley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > If the back part of a leaning trike rolled over, I
> > suspect the pivot was too
> > high and the track width was too narrow for the
> > corner being attempted. I
> > will reserve my opinion until I see the video.
>
> I agree. They use this vid on the tilting list to
> discredit Lean Machine, Honda Gyro type tilters but it
> doesn't impress me.
> I drive a 1f2r tilter almost every day in the form
> of a Honda Gyro 49cc MC with 2 rear wheels that stay
> flat to the road with a 15.5" track and a front part
> that pivots like a motorcycle low and just forward of
> the transaxle with a spring/shock there.
> It handles great, more stable, better braking
> than a reg MC!!! I love it!!
> I want to build an aero cabin EV based on the
> Gyro's tilting design and the Lean Machines body.
> Could get 75mph and 100 mile range on lead batts from
> the very good aero!!!
> >
> > Your website is not working tonight. I can try again
> > tomorrow.
>
> Works for me this morning.
>
> >
> > Joe Smalley
> > Rural Kitsap County WA
> > Fiesta 48 volts
> > NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> >
> > > Joe,
> > >
> > > Good questions.
> > >
> > > A single bearing lean steer requires a castor
> > angle for the head angle.
> > > The problem with this lean steer system is that
> > you get the same angle at
> > > all speeds.
>
> Mine does too if I understand you right and works
> great, Honda did their homework on this and has been
> built for 20+ yrs though only sold in the US for 3
> yrs.
>
> Do you mind hard leaning in slow turns?
>
>
>
> > >
> > > I am building a 2 bearing lean and independent
> > steer system. I have never
> > > seen it done before. The steering will be done by
>
> Maybe a reason? The idea is simple to achieve independent lean and
> steer.
>
> Do you think that the relatively high position of my horizontal axis will
be
> a major problem?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 4, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable screen.
It's a bit bigger than a palmtop with an 8" screen, but then it's
actually
pen based PC.
Thanks for the tip. I did some Googling and found this site:
http://www.surplussales.com/ComputerAccess/fujitsu.html
They have Stylistic 1000 tablets with monochrome transflective displays
for $59. I can't tell if they come with a hard drive from my quick
perusal of the site, and of course it's not color. But is color
necessary, or even doable for less than $100?
Note this machine also has a serial port on it already.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's the article all about making your own wire shunts.
http://www.uoguelph.ca/~antoon/gadgets/shunts/shunts.html
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hmmm Philippe,
Now there's a business you could get into, selling used Smart's to EV
converters over here. I don't know how hard it would be to import and get
approved here for licensing, but if Zap can do it, I assume others could
too. That would be resonable I think for people to pay used, maybe through
evalbum or ebay too.
have a nice day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:13 PM
Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
> Here in France, second hand fortwo price start around 5000 euros :^)
> new one start at 9000 euros and go to 13000 euros for convertible all
option
> model.
>
> Philippe
>
> Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du volant ?
> quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
> Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
> http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, May 03, 2005 7:54 PM
> Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
>
>
> > Hi Jerry,
> > Are you sure it's $25k? When I was in Monaco a couple weeks ago and it
> > seamed like EVery one was driving one (well thousands on the road), I
> > stopped in a Mercedes dealer nearby and they said it was $10k Euros or
> $13k
> > US. Probably a couple $k for shipping though. The trick would be to
buy
> > some on the used market over there and get them shipped/approved here
and
> > use for conversions. If I was stationed over there, I could probably
buy
> > one through the local paper from an individual and ship if they're now
> > approved here for licensing. I think realistically these need to be
under
> > $10k US to sell. I'd love to have one though after being in one.
> > Have a nice day, Mark
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, May 02, 2005 4:37 PM
> > Subject: Re: Smarts in the US
> >
> >
> > > Hi Victor and All,
> > > --- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > *If* this is true and indeed happening, we expect a
> > > > great donors:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > http://www.zapworld.com/about/news/news_smartRegulatoryApproval.asp
> > >
> > > You would be right if the Euro exchange rate was
> > > better so they don't go for over $25k as an ICE as the
> > > price stands now, or Zap wasn't in on it which makes
> > > it doubtful from the start!!!
> > > Now if the exchange rate changes as the economy
> > > both here and even worse in Europe bites the big one
> > > this summer and Smart or someone get's it past the
> > > Fed's, then if they will sell gliders or finished
> > > EV's, then you may be on to something as they were
> > > designed to be an EV from the beginning along with as
> > > a gas or diesel!!!
> > > But that's a lot of if's ;-o
> > > HTH's,
> > > Jerry Dycus
> > >
> > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Victor
> > > > '91 ACRX - something different
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________
> > > Do You Yahoo!?
> > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > > http://mail.yahoo.com
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> And I have a Iso charger line coming soon. In fact it made full power
> numbers last night from 120vac. And it did it with %85 apparent power
> conversion efficiency. This was 130 VAC in and 36 volts out at 50 amps. So
> for those that need Iso, I have solutions coming.
>
After all this talk of isolation, you guys have me convinced I want to do it.
The problem is, I
have no idea what to do. I looked at the documents on Manzanitas site but
didn't see anything I
could work with. I'm not an EE and I didn't play one on TV. And I didn't sleep
at one those hotels
that make you so smart. I plan on using a PFC-30 in my car, but can't wait for
any new models to
come out. So when I go to my local Transformers R' Us, what do I ask for?
Thanks
Dave COver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I sent out the URL for the do-it-yourself shunt article, it never
appeared in my EV email file.
Only when I added text above the URL the last time, did I receive it.
My assumption was that the URL first, message was not acceptable for
distribution.
Perhaps the shunt article wanted to be wired in parallel?
I apologize for the multiple posts.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stu,
There can sometimes be quite a big time delay before your own post
comes back to you. But don't worry, if you sent it, it'll get
through, eventually. The only things that won't are mime attachments
(including HTML text parts).
Regards
Evan
On 5/5/05, Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When I sent out the URL for the do-it-yourself shunt article, it never
> appeared in my EV email file.
>
> Only when I added text above the URL the last time, did I receive it.
>
> My assumption was that the URL first, message was not acceptable for
> distribution.
>
> Perhaps the shunt article wanted to be wired in parallel?
>
> I apologize for the multiple posts.
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I still have a 7.5 KVA and 15Kva isolation transformer
that I will sell $100 for the 7.5 and $150 for the 15
kva (not including shipping). They're HEAVY! pick up
would work best. NOTE: too heavy for on board
isolation, this would be something you leave in the
garage.
Rod
--- Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > And I have a Iso charger line coming soon. In fact
> it made full power
> > numbers last night from 120vac. And it did it with
> %85 apparent power
> > conversion efficiency. This was 130 VAC in and 36
> volts out at 50 amps. So
> > for those that need Iso, I have solutions coming.
> >
> After all this talk of isolation, you guys have me
> convinced I want to do it. The problem is, I
> have no idea what to do. I looked at the documents
> on Manzanitas site but didn't see anything I
> could work with. I'm not an EE and I didn't play one
> on TV. And I didn't sleep at one those hotels
> that make you so smart. I plan on using a PFC-30 in
> my car, but can't wait for any new models to
> come out. So when I go to my local Transformers R'
> Us, what do I ask for?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave COver
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK it's a minor annoyance, but this is where we all learn from each others'
mistakes, right?
I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side connector on
my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect there, so I used the
SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the chassis ground connection
temporarily. Recently I had an order going in to McMaster-Carr and saw they
have the same connectors, and at a pretty good price. I ordered a black
set. The plan is to bolt the gray and black together back-to-back. Since
Andersons will only mate to like colors, the black and gray sets should
prevent me from accidentally connecting them wrong (and putting HV on the
chassis).
Not.
I looked at the black connectors and couldn't see how they differed from the
gray. Just for fun I slipped contacts into a black one and tried to mate it
to a gray. "Snick." It fit like they were made for each other. What the
#!&*?
The gray ones from EV Parts say CMC on them. (EV Parts describes them as
"Anderson style" - didn't notice that before.) The black ones from McM-C
say SMH. My big SB350s that I use for pack service disconnects say Anderson
Power Products. OK, there are apparently several companies copying the
Anderson design, but wouldn't it make sense to really copy it? So it
preserves the very useful can't-mate-it-wrong capability?
What this means is that you can't assume your "Anderson" connector will mate
to someone else's of the same color, or will be prevented from mating to
someone else's of a different color. Beware.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Mike Golub wrote:
> > Hello
> >
> > I recntly received a free 1986 Toyota 4x4. It weighs
> > 3100, but I need to get it to the scale to see what
> > it is at after the bed is removed.
> >
> > I was wondering what I would loose if I used the 8"
> > motor. I was thinking my finished weight would be
> > able 3800 lbs.
Bob Bath wrote:
> You will lose a small amount of torque, for starters.
> The extra 1" of armature makes a slight difference.
>
Actually, there is quite a big difference in torque between an 8 inch and a
nine inch, so
you loose a lot of torque, not a 'small amount of torque'. An extra 1" of
armature makes a
big difference, plus, there is also more length of armature in the 9 inch
motor, too, so
this again, increases torque.
A 9 inch motor would handle that weight better. The 8 will work, but it will
consume more
amps being overloaded, compared to the 9 inch not being overloaded. Less
current, less
heat, and better power delivery, all points to using the 9 inch sized motor for
the weight
vehicle you're planning.
>
> > Is it possible to burn out the motor
Yes, especially if it struggles and has to be fed lots of amps all the time.
> or it will never get to 55 mph. I really don't need it to go much faster.
Oh, even the 8 will get that truck up past 80 mph!
>
> > Also I live in Alaska, and I have issues get stuff
> > shipped up here that weigh more than 150 lbs. Does
> > the 9" motor weigh exactly 150? You'd think they'd
> > design so it was shippable vs truckable.
> > Can the housing be taken off, and shipped in two
> > containers?
The ADC motor weighs, I think, 147 lbs., but after you factor in the wood crate
to ship it
in, you're looking at 165-170 lbs. Shipping the motor in two crates is very
doable.
Essentially, it can come apart in three sections....the armature with the shaft
end bell
still attached, the motor's main body with the fields, and the brush end bell.
You could pack
the motor body and the brush end bell in one crate, and the armature/shaft end
bell in another.
>
> > Are there any other motors that can be used that are
> > similiar to the 9" but perhaps doesn't weigh as
> > much?
As far as 9 inch motors that have been tried and proven to work well in our
road going EVs
at 96+ volts, there aren't too many choices. The 9 inch ADC is one of the
lightest...the
NetGain 9 inch weighs about the same, and the GE 9 inch is heavier. The older
Prestolite 9 inch
was similar in weight to the 9 inch ADC.
> > E.A. says it will take two months to make the
> > adapter plate for this truck, unless someone has one laying
> > around?
It's too bad that's not an '86-'91 Mazda pickup, as I've got a brand new setup
of the
motor hub, spacer ring, and adapter plate to fit one that I've had for many
years now :-)
See Ya....John Wayland
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--- Begin Message ---
And we thought they spent all their time sipping Earl Grey:^O
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/05/05/speed.record.ap/index.html
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--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #21: 2005 Tour de Sol Offers Solutions to Energy Crisis
May 4th Press Release from NESEA
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Nancy Hazard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 413 774-6051 x18
James Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] 508 870-0042 x108
2005 Tour de Sol Offers Solutions to Energy Crisis
Advanced Vehicle Show in Saratoga Springs and Albany, NY May 13-16
Greenfield, MA - May 4, 2005
The unsung heroes participating in the national 2005 Tour de Sol - America's
sustainable energy and transportation festival and competition - offer
alternative solutions to the energy crisis. People in the Northeast can meet
these heroes and see a wide assortment of advanced vehicles when the Northeast
Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) presents the 2005 Tour de Sol in
Saratoga Springs and Albany, NY May 13-16.
"The world has reached a point where the demand for oil has exceeded the
supply," says Nancy Hazard, executive director of NESEA. "Drilling for oil
will not solve the problem."
For the past sixteen years, students, corporations, and government agencies who
care about climate change and the security, health, and economic implications
of oil dependence have been developing and demonstrating clean vehicle
technologies at the Tour de Sol. Today, the event embraces three competitions
and showcases over 50 advanced vehicles offered by major auto, truck, bus and
bike manufacturers, concept vehicles by students and entrepreneurs, and other
displays by business and government leaders.
"The Tour de Sol aims to demonstrate that we can reduce oil use and climate
change emissions from the transportation sector, which uses two-thirds of the
oil and emits one-third of the climate change gases," says Hazard. "We believe
that developing and using climate friendly, secure and non-toxic energy to
power our economy and our transportation system and improve our health and
quality of life is an achievable goal."
On Saturday, May 14 dozens of hybrid and biodiesel vehicle owners participating
in the Tour de Sol's new 100-mpg Monte Carlo-style rally will converge at
Saratoga's Spring Auto Show held at the Saratoga Spa State Park in Saratoga
Springs, NY, from 10am-5pm. They will join student and corporate teams
competing in the Tour de Sol Championship and E-bike competitions for concept
vehicles, which aim to achieve reduced climate change emissions and zero oil
consumption.
Other exhibits include:
o Honda's hydrogen fuel cell vehicle (the FCX);
o Cars to heavy trucks that run on natural gas;
o All three of the new hybrid SUVs that get 30 mpg or better in the EPA city
driving cycle:
the Toyota Highlander,
the Lexus RX400h,
the Ford Escape;
o Concept vehicles with new lithium batteries;
o Biodiesel suppliers and vehicles;
o Electric bikes and neighborhood vehicles;
o Clean vehicles used in New York State Parks and other state agency displays.
Admission to the Auto Show and the Tour de Sol is $7 at the door.
Children under 12 are free.
$2 off coupons are available on the Tour de Sol web site
www.TourdeSol.org
MORE
On Monday, May 16, the Tour de Sol participants will drive to Albany's Empire
State Plaza for a free display from10am-2pm. Here, New York State business and
government will join them with displays of real-world examples of clean
transportation solutions that their partnership has produced. Governor George
Pataki has been invited to speak at the 11am awards ceremony.
"Governor Pataki and the State of New York understand the economic and
environmental advantages of advanced vehicles," says Hazard. "It is an honor
to have the opportunity to bring the Tour de Sol to New York." Major sponsors
of the Tour de Sol are the New York State Energy Research and Development
Authority (NYSERDA) and the Center for Technology Commercialization. Key
supporting sponsors include the U.S. Department of Energy, the New York Power
Authority, Toyota, the New York State Environmental Conservation (DEC), the
Federal Highway Administration, New York State Parks, The Automotive Career
Development Center, Honda, Environmental Alternatives, and the Electric Drive
Transportation Association.
NESEA, organizer of the event, is the nation's leading regional education and
advocacy organization that aims to accelerate the deployment and use of
renewable energy and energy efficiency. NESEA produces major sustainable-
energy events that inspire and motivate large numbers of people to get involved
and make a difference.
For more information on the 2005 Tour de Sol, the Monte Carlo-style Rally, E-
bike competition, and events in Saratoga Springs and Albany, and $2 off coupons
for the Saratoga event, visit
www.TourdeSol.org
or contact NESEA at 413 774-6051.
# # #
NOTE TO ALL MEDIA: Photos are available upon request.
Photo Gallery of Tour de Sol Championship entrants can be found at
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/2005entrants1.html
Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301
413-774-6051
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Charles Whalen wrote:
> I'm having an electrician come to install two separate, independent
> 240V, 50A dedicated circuits with 14-50 outlets, both outside at the
> driveway, for EV charging. One of the circuits is for a MagneCharge
> (TCG2000) small paddle inductive charger for my new Toyota RAV4-EV
> (at least "new" for me).
Congratulations on getting one of these beauties!
> The installation manual for the charger emphasizes NOT to install
> a GFCI on the circuit because the charger is equipped with its own
> built-in ground fault protector that may cause a GFCI to malfunction.
Correct. Standard GFCIs trip at about 5 milliamps (considered the
maximum safe current to avoid electrocuting people). The auto companies
decided on their own higher (easier to meet) standard of 20 milliamps.
In other words, your RAV4-EV could easily have 10ma of ground fault
leakage and still be "normal" (i.e. doesn't trip its GFCI), but it
*would* trip any normal GFCI.
PS: You may run into building code problems with your electrician if he
is a stickler for doing thing by the book. NEC says all outside outlets
must have GFCIs. But GM's charger won't work with a standard GFCI, so
they tell you not to use one. Good luck!
> Does a PFC-50 also have its own built-in ground fault protector
> (like the TCG2000) that would cause a GFCI on the circuit to
> malfunction?
I'll leave that for Rich Rudman.
> And therefore, should I also NOT install a GFCI on the 240V, 50A
> dedicated circuit that I will be using in the future with a PFC-50?
> Or is it OK to have a GFCI on the circuit?
I would install a GFCI on the second circuit. Use it for the PFC-50 and
Brusa and any other future chargers or devices you need to power.
I would install the other outlet without a GFCI, but put it inside a
lockable box. Run the Magnecharger cord into this box, and LOCK it so no
one can unplug it to get at the connector without a key.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Lee wrote this:
>> 1000-volt transients are common on the AC line, and can reach 6000
>> volts during thunderstorms. Your controller isn't built to survive
>> such events. So, I would include a switch or contactors to
>> disconnect BOTH positive and negative wires between the battery
>> pack and controller during charging.
Ryan Bohm wrote:
> I understand that this *can* happen. I'd like to know if anyone *has*
> toasted anything due to these line transients?
I live in an area where thunderstorms are common. I'd say on average
that we get a serious lightning strike every few years. Typically, it
finds the weakest link on your AC powerline and destroys it.
About two years ago, lightning hit a tree about 100 yards from our home.
It destroyed the UPS on one of my computers, and a Todd PF-75 that I had
plugged in my shop (not in my EV -- the EV wasn't plugged in at the
time).
The UPS had exploded some parts in the input AC line filter, but still
didn't work after replacing them.
The Todd had blown through the thin insulator between one of its MOSFETs
and the case. A portion of the heatsink and MOSFET itself were also
blown away.
I've probably had a dozen or more things destroyed by lighting over the
years. I also used to be a TV repairman, and regularly saw the aftermath
of consumer electronics that had been "hit". Some times they are
repairable; but most things today aren't meant to be fixed and just
become junk.
If you're lucky, your $19 electric heater will be your weak link. But
what if your $1000 EV components are your weakest link? The way they are
built, they WILL be!
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Will this fancy display reduce range? [Windows XP screen shown, so
> I assume there's a full-blown Pentium-class PC somewhere to run it]
A typical laptop PC draws several amps at 12 volts. Most do not have
continuous memory, so unless you power it all the time, it will take
many minutes to reboot each time you start your car, and you won't have
any data saved during the time it's off.
I'll use my own laptop as an example; a Compaq LTE/Lite. It draws
2.5amps at 12v. My 12v battery is 25 amphours, so if the computer were
left on it would kill the battery in 10 hours. If I left the DC/DC
running to power it from the main pack, then I have 11 more 12v
batteries at 50 amphours each. Now it would kill the entire pack in
about 1 week.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable screen.
Note that with this high brightness comes considerable power
consumption. This may not matter; but then again it might. In
particular, it means you can't leave your display active so you can read
any data while the car is parked.
That's why all the electronic odometers and clocks in cars are passive
LCDs, or only operate the display with the car is running.
Strangely enough, the lowest-powered sunlight-viewable display
technology is the old vacuum fluorescent display. They are generally
blue-green (though can be filtered to get different colors). They are
generally a bit on the crude side, mainly 7-segment displays and rather
coarse dot-matrix displays.
Another advantage of this vacuum tube technology is that they are
basically immune to temperature extremes. The drive electronics may not
be (they need to be built with suitable parts for wide temperature
ranges), but the display itself would work at -100 or +200 deg.F.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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