EV Digest 4339
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: GFCI with PFC?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Flexible instrumentation
by "Karl Nichols" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Lithium chopper?
by William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Ariana EV - another daydream or reality?
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Ariana EV - another daydream or reality?
by pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Cheap DC/DC converters 600W Vicor Mega Mod $45
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EVLN(2 EV1 solar vehicles was the saddest feature of Earth Day)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
10) Hydrogen in Akron?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: British Attempt Land Speed Record/EVs Over 2200lbs.
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Lithium chopper?
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Flexible instrumentation-and road signs
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: British Attempt Land Speed Record/EVs Over 2200lbs.
by "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Lithium chopper?
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Flexible instrumentation
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Anderson vs. "Anderson style" connectors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: CAN controlled cahrger (Re: GFCI with PFC?)
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
PS: You may run into building code problems with your electrician if he
is a stickler for doing thing by the book. NEC says all outside outlets
must have GFCIs. But GM's charger won't work with a standard GFCI, so
they tell you not to use one. Good luck!
Hm. Isn't a Magnecharger not technically an "outlet" per se, more of a
device (and a UL listed one as well)? My MC is hard wired to the
line/box with no access to a plug of sorts.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Chris Tromley wrote:
> OK it's a minor annoyance, but this is where we all learn from each others'
> mistakes, right?
>
> I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side connector on
> my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect there, so I used the
> SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the chassis ground connection
> temporarily. Recently I had an order going in to McMaster-Carr and saw they
> have the same connectors, and at a pretty good price. I ordered a black
> set. The plan is to bolt the gray and black together back-to-back. Since
> Andersons will only mate to like colors, the black and gray sets should
> prevent me from accidentally connecting them wrong (and putting HV on the
> chassis).
>
> Not.
>
> I looked at the black connectors and couldn't see how they differed from the
> gray. Just for fun I slipped contacts into a black one and tried to mate it
> to a gray. "Snick." It fit like they were made for each other. What the
> #!&*?
>
> The gray ones from EV Parts say CMC on them. (EV Parts describes them as
> "Anderson style" - didn't notice that before.) The black ones from McM-C
> say SMH. My big SB350s that I use for pack service disconnects say Anderson
> Power Products. OK, there are apparently several companies copying the
> Anderson design, but wouldn't it make sense to really copy it? So it
> preserves the very useful can't-mate-it-wrong capability?
>
> What this means is that you can't assume your "Anderson" connector will mate
> to someone else's of the same color, or will be prevented from mating to
> someone else's of a different color. Beware.
>
> Chris
Chris, interesting post. After reading it, I went out to my backyard EV shop
and played
around with some of the 50 amp size connectors. I have all types. The black
Anderson types
plug in and out of the black SMH types, as you would hope they would. The black
Anderson
types also plug in and out of grey SMH types, just as you've pointed out. It
gets more
interesting...the black Anderson types 'also' plug in and out of grey Anderson
types! Red
connectors in both Anderson and SMH do reject the other colors, but it seems
there's no
difference between a black 50 amp connector and a grey one, regardless of
manufacturer.
Gotta go to work, but I'll do some more research when I get home.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dakota Digital offers this type of display for automotive use has anyone
worked with them to create displays for EV's?
http://www.dakotadigital.com/index.cfm
Karl Nichols -PHX. AZ-
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable screen.
Note that with this high brightness comes considerable power
consumption. This may not matter; but then again it might. In
particular, it means you can't leave your display active so you can read
any data while the car is parked.
That's why all the electronic odometers and clocks in cars are passive
LCDs, or only operate the display with the car is running.
Strangely enough, the lowest-powered sunlight-viewable display
technology is the old vacuum fluorescent display. They are generally
blue-green (though can be filtered to get different colors). They are
generally a bit on the crude side, mainly 7-segment displays and rather
coarse dot-matrix displays.
Another advantage of this vacuum tube technology is that they are
basically immune to temperature extremes. The drive electronics may not
be (they need to be built with suitable parts for wide temperature
ranges), but the display itself would work at -100 or +200 deg.F.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Hi Folks , My guess is it is for short range silent riding in parades
and was possibly built for someone's funeral, notice the black tape
across the badge. One beautiful labor of love !!! Cost a bunch. I would
also like to know more specs. batts motor etc. Bill Brinsmead
David Dymaxion wrote:
Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I didn't
see anything that indicates this is an electric chopper. Maybe just
the starter battery is Lithium?
This pic is rather telling:
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
This one too:
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear listers, especially you down-under: has anybody actually seen the
Ariana 797 4 seater that could be preordered now, placing a deposit of
30% of the estimated selling price to their banking account? Is it a
real possibility or vaporware?
Amongst all the claims about nobody producing EV's and Jerry with his
group of experts trying to get 2-seater Freedom EV on the road in the
near future, it would seem like a good candidate. Low cd, small size and
to me, good looking design with enough range for the higher priced models.
It would be wonderful if it were true, but in this day and age of web
designers, photoshopping and scam companies like Zap, with a lot of talk
and no substance... it looks too good to be true. I could not tell if
there are actual photos of the car on their site, or only renderings.
If somebody can confirm that this is a real product and could actually
be bought, I think $14,300...$22,000 would be affordable enough. The top
of the line model with an anticipated price tag of 32k-usd is too high
for me but still less than many trendy small cars cost around here
(Finland, the promised land of automobile taxes).
Any takers?
Pekka Tarvainen
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
pekka wrote:
Ariana 797 4 seater that could be preordered now, placing a deposit of
30% of the estimated selling price to their banking account? Is it a
uh, 15% deposit, not 30% - sorry
Pekka
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought one, and it does work (converts 102V to 12V). But my
application has a very tiny current draw, so I can't confirm it
supplies the 600W they claim. It does not come with a heatsink, so
you'd certainly need to add one if you were drawing significant
wattage off it.
Richard
1997 Chevy S-10E
1981 Jet Electrica
Huntington Beach, CA
On 5/1/05, Claudio Natoli claudio.natoli-at-memetrics.com
|vehicle/1.0-Allow| <...> wrote:
>
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> > I kow there are a few folks out there looking for affordable DC-DC
> > converters. While searching for something else, I came across this:
> > http://www.halted.com/ccp11977-dc-dc-converter-150v-15v-600watt-vi-n52-em-19678.htm
>
> Resurrecting an old thread. Just wondering if anyone picked up some of these
> and whether they had luck with 'em?
>
> Cheers,
> Claudio
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
>
> --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > And I have a Iso charger line coming soon. In fact it made full power
> > numbers last night from 120vac. And it did it with %85 apparent power
> > conversion efficiency. This was 130 VAC in and 36 volts out at 50 amps. So
> > for those that need Iso, I have solutions coming.
> >
> After all this talk of isolation, you guys have me convinced I want to do it.
> The problem is, I
> have no idea what to do. I looked at the documents on Manzanitas site but
> didn't see anything I
> could work with. I'm not an EE and I didn't play one on TV. And I didn't
> sleep at one those hotels
> that make you so smart. I plan on using a PFC-30 in my car, but can't wait
> for any new models to
> come out. So when I go to my local Transformers R' Us, what do I ask for?
All you need is an isolation transformer. They are are standard
off-the-shelf item at any electrical supply house. Rich even has one
he'll sell you.
The size and cost is directly proportional to the amount of power you
are using. Are you going to plug into a 120vac 15amp outlet? Then a
cheaper 1800 watt transformer is all you need. Plan to run on 240vac at
30 amps? Then you need a 7200 watt transformer.
Contact me directly if a 2000 watt isolation transformer is enough; I
have some at a good price.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Also prominently on display were two EV1 solar vehicles and a
> panel of rooftop-mounted photovoltaic cells that could easily
> recharge them. This was perhaps the saddest feature of Earth Day
> because automakers and Congress recently succeeded in killing off
> the U.S. electric vehicle industry. General Motors, in
> particular, led the charge, insisting that as many as possible of
> the 1,300 RAV-4-based vehicles be hauled off to the Arizona
> desert and flattened. Fewer than 300 survive despite buyers'
> desperate pleas that they be allowed to pay cash for, and thereby
> keep, their beloved electrics.
Looks like the author here is confused. The vehicles above should be reversed.
Richard Kelly
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hydrogen to fuel job growth, inventor to open Akron
plant to test storage tanks
Inventor to open Akron plant to test storage tanks.
Production facility may follow
By John Higgins
Beacon Journal staff writer
Sometimes a good single-malt Scotch can close a
business transaction, but it may have been cranberry
juice and skim milk that sealed the deal with an
Akron-born inventor.
Stanford Ovshinsky plans to open a plant in Akron by
the end of the year that will test hydrogen fuel
storage tanks for a new generation of nonpolluting
cars and other applications.
``That would be the beginning of bringing the hydrogen
economy to Akron,'' said Ovshinsky, a mostly
self-taught son of a Lithuanian-born scrap-metal
dealer.
About a dozen city officials, plus representatives
from Summit County, the University of Akron and Metro
RTA took a bus to Michigan on Tuesday to tour Energy
Conversion Devices. Ovshinsky is the company's
82-year-old president and co-founder with his wife,
Iris, also a noted scientist.
The testing lab will be located in an existing
building in the general area east of Broadway that the
city has designated for high-tech development.
Tax abatements and other economic development tools
are ``all on the table'' in case another city attempts
to lure the plant away, said Jeffrey Wilhite, deputy
director of planning.
``They're talking about a half-dozen jobs in the
lab,'' Wilhite said. ``Once the certification happens,
then the production side of the equation starts.''
That could lead to hundreds of local jobs to produce
the tanks in Akron. The company was founded in 1960
and trades under the ENER symbol on the Nasdaq stock
exchange.
Wilhite first met the Ovshinskys in 1999 when Wilhite
was chief operating officer of Inventure Place and
interested in using Ovshinsky's solar energy
technology at the Inventors Hall of Fame.
During a visit to the company in Rochester, Mich.,
Wilhite noticed that the kitchens in the plant's
buildings always had cranberry juice for Ovshinsky and
skim milk for his wife.
When the couple visited Inventure Place, Wilhite
instructed the food service staff to have the
beverages ready.
``Iris just lit up,'' Wilhite said. The hospitality
just confirmed what her husband had always said about
his beloved home town.
Breaking barriers
Ovshinsky may have solved one of the main barriers to
hydrogen-fueled cars -- how to store enough hydrogen
on board to make them practical.
Rather than storing compressed hydrogen gas, these
tanks hold a solid form of hydrogen by bonding its
atoms to a metal powder formed into a solid block,
like a sponge. The low-pressure tank is safer and
holds three times the amount of gaseous hydrogen in
the same size vessel, according to the company's Web
site.
The tanks can be coupled with fuel cells to power
appliances such as portable generators and video
cameras, but they also may provide the key to fueling
internal combustion engines and hybrid cars with
hydrogen instead of gasoline.
The company has developed a Toyota Prius prototype
that runs entirely on hydrogen. Toyota already uses
Ovshinsky's patented nickel-metal hydride rechargeable
battery in its Prius hybrid cars.
Ovshinsky would like to install a hydrogen fueling
station at the Akron plant to show people how easy it
would be to add a hydrogen pump to a regular gas
station island.
``This isn't 20 to 30 years down the road. This is
now,'' Wilhite said. ``If Akron becomes a fueling
station, that opens up a whole new layer of
opportunities for us.''
Wilhite is not alone in his enthusiasm for Ovshinsky's
vision.
George Chase, a chemical engineering professor at UA
who took the bus trip on Tuesday, said he was
impressed by how the company integrates its various
technologies.
Solar panels generate the electricity needed to
extract hydrogen from water, which then can be stored
in the tanks to power fuel cells.
Chase said that solar panels on top of a gas station
could generate the electricity needed to derive
hydrogen from tap water, which could then be pumped
into a car's storage tank like gasoline and power a
stack of fuel cells.
Growing interest
Interest in alternative fuel sources has especially
grown in the last five years, said David E. Cole,
chairman of the Center for Automotive Research in Ann
Arbor, Mich.
``I think the world is coming their way but it still
is moving slowly. Clearly, they are operating on the
leading edge of critical technology,'' he said.
However, Cole said, it is too soon to make predictions
about whether the inventions will reap big rewards for
investors.
``Ultimately, it's got to be practical, which means it
has to make economic sense,'' he said.
Ovshinsky pumped his vision for the future at the
Akron Roundtable lecture in February.
Wilhite said that about a week after that lecture,
Ovshinsky called him.
``I think he was overwhelmed about how many people
come out for the Roundtable,'' Wilhite said. ``He
said, `I want to put my money where my mouth is. I'm
going to move this plant to Akron.' .''
Staff writer Gloria Irwin contributed to this report.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've heard you have about a 15 mph speed penalty for running on the
salt vs. pavement, and the long track is 7 miles. These guys are
smart to run on a section of highway that is 12 miles long.
--- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And we thought they spent all their time sipping Earl Grey:^O
>
>
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/05/05/speed.record.ap/index.html
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Will this fancy display reduce range?
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> Sure, it will reduce your range by as much as 6 inches.
Well, it would be a lot more than than. But everything hinges on exactly
how much power it is consuming.
Using my previous email, suppose this display is part of a computer that
draws (say) 2.5 amps at 12 = 30 watts. Suppose your EV has a pack of 16
Optimas (16 x 300 watthours = 4800 watthours total). Further, let's say
your range is 30 miles on a charge, and you typically drive for one
hour. Then the fancy display uses 30wh/4800wh = 0.625% of your power and
reduces your range by 0.19 miles. Still not much -- but WAY more than 6
inches! :-)
As I said, the real problem is how much it consumes when parked. You'd
have to keep such a computer off when parked, or it would murder your
batteries fairly soon.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw that, too. I don't know these things by sight, are one of those
a controller, or are they the relays and electronics for the
motorcycle ignition and lights?
I don't see room for a usable amount of batteries. If they hid an
electric motor in the ice motor or tranny it'd have to be pretty
small.
I'm excited about the notion of lithium chopper -- just not clear to
me there's enough evidence to say this one is it.
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I
> didn't
> > see anything that indicates this is an electric chopper. Maybe
> just
> > the starter battery is Lithium?
>
> This pic is rather telling:
>
>
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
>
>
> This one too:
>
>
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
This is photoshopped image - I made this sign only in software :-)
I wish they were real...
Rod Hower wrote:
Victor,
cool picture on your web site. Where you installing
your own signs or is that an actual road sign?
"Use of exhaust brakes prohibited"
"Use of regenerative brakes encouraged"
Cool pic either way.
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
"These guys are smart to run on a section of highway that is 12 miles
long"
A highway has WAY less margin for error than the salt flats. They may
be able to go faster but if their ride starts to veer off they won't
have lots of runoff room on either side like on the salt flats.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay Brown
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Dymaxion
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:29 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: British Attempt Land Speed Record/EVs Over 2200lbs.
I've heard you have about a 15 mph speed penalty for running on the
salt vs. pavement, and the long track is 7 miles. These guys are
smart to run on a section of highway that is 12 miles long.
--- Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> And we thought they spent all their time sipping Earl Grey:^O
>
>
http://www.cnn.com/2005/TECH/science/05/05/speed.record.ap/index.html
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug,
Note, they don't come with floppy drives, if you want to install
any kind of software you either find external docking station or
a utility to transfer files over serial port.
But to install even this utility you must already be able
to transfer at least one file somehow using DOS tricks.
It is doable (have done it), just be prepared.
Doug Weathers wrote:
On May 4, 2005, at 6:36 PM, Peter VanDerWal wrote:
The Fujitu stylistic LT with daylight readable screen.
It's a bit bigger than a palmtop with an 8" screen, but then it's
actually
pen based PC.
Thanks for the tip. I did some Googling and found this site:
http://www.surplussales.com/ComputerAccess/fujitsu.html
They have Stylistic 1000 tablets with monochrome transflective displays
for $59. I can't tell if they come with a hard drive from my quick
perusal of the site, and of course it's not color. But is color
necessary, or even doable for less than $100?
Note this machine also has a serial port on it already.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could make them white,
red, whatever. What makes you think that different color connectors
should not mate?
Victor
Chris Tromley wrote:
OK it's a minor annoyance, but this is where we all learn from each others'
mistakes, right?
I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side connector on
my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect there, so I used the
SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the chassis ground connection
temporarily. Recently I had an order going in to McMaster-Carr and saw they
have the same connectors, and at a pretty good price. I ordered a black
set. The plan is to bolt the gray and black together back-to-back. Since
Andersons will only mate to like colors, the black and gray sets should
prevent me from accidentally connecting them wrong (and putting HV on the
chassis).
Not.
I looked at the black connectors and couldn't see how they differed from the
gray. Just for fun I slipped contacts into a black one and tried to mate it
to a gray. "Snick." It fit like they were made for each other. What the
#!&*?
The gray ones from EV Parts say CMC on them. (EV Parts describes them as
"Anderson style" - didn't notice that before.) The black ones from McM-C
say SMH. My big SB350s that I use for pack service disconnects say Anderson
Power Products. OK, there are apparently several companies copying the
Anderson design, but wouldn't it make sense to really copy it? So it
preserves the very useful can't-mate-it-wrong capability?
What this means is that you can't assume your "Anderson" connector will mate
to someone else's of the same color, or will be prevented from mating to
someone else's of a different color. Beware.
Chris
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 9:27 AM -0700 on 5/5/05, David Dymaxion wrote:
I saw that, too. I don't know these things by sight, are one of those
a controller, or are they the relays and electronics for the
motorcycle ignition and lights?
The big black box at the front looks like a Brusa charge
I don't see room for a usable amount of batteries. If they hid an
electric motor in the ice motor or tranny it'd have to be pretty
small.
The motor is shown in Picture 12 of the project slides.
I'm excited about the notion of lithium chopper -- just not clear to
me there's enough evidence to say this one is it.
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/CHP_sled300.html
The above is the writeup of the project. "Click on Read More..." to
see the details. It is a "lithium powered motor" inside the v-twin.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in
sort of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand
naked women screaming and throwing little pickles
at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
- Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Because, by there design only like colors are supposed
to mate. It's a built in idiot factor. Here are the
recommended voltages for each connector. we just need
more colors for EVs.
Color Recommended Voltage
Yellow 12V
Orange 18V
Red 24V
Gray 36V
Blue 48V
Green 72V
Black 80V
Brown 96V
Purple 120V
Gadget
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could
> make them white,
> red, whatever. What makes you think that different
> color connectors
> should not mate?
>
> Victor
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Quoted from Anderson's datasheet for the SB50 (
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pdf/DS-SB50REV01.pdf ):
"Mechanical
keys ensure connectors will only mate with
connectors of the same color. Different color
housings are selected to identify voltages,
thus preventing mismatching of the power
supply system."
I seem to recall from a conversation with Otmar some time ago that the
grey connector housings can be modified (cut out part of the keying
feature) to become a "universal" SB50... but I can't remember the details.
hth,
Andrew
------
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could make them white,
red, whatever. What makes you think that different color connectors
should not mate?
Victor
Chris Tromley wrote:
OK it's a minor annoyance, but this is where we all learn from each
others'
mistakes, right?
I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side
connector on
my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect there, so I
used the
SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the chassis ground connection
temporarily. Recently I had an order going in to McMaster-Carr and
saw they
have the same connectors, and at a pretty good price. I ordered a black
set. The plan is to bolt the gray and black together back-to-back.
Since
Andersons will only mate to like colors, the black and gray sets should
prevent me from accidentally connecting them wrong (and putting HV on
the
chassis).
Not.
I looked at the black connectors and couldn't see how they differed
from the
gray. Just for fun I slipped contacts into a black one and tried to
mate it
to a gray. "Snick." It fit like they were made for each other.
What the
#!&*?
The gray ones from EV Parts say CMC on them. (EV Parts describes
them as
"Anderson style" - didn't notice that before.) The black ones from
McM-C
say SMH. My big SB350s that I use for pack service disconnects say
Anderson
Power Products. OK, there are apparently several companies copying the
Anderson design, but wouldn't it make sense to really copy it? So it
preserves the very useful can't-mate-it-wrong capability?
What this means is that you can't assume your "Anderson" connector
will mate
to someone else's of the same color, or will be prevented from mating to
someone else's of a different color. Beware.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could make
> them white, red, whatever. What makes you think that
> different color connectors should not mate?
Because the different colour housings are mechanically keyed to prevent
mating of differently coloured connectors. (Of course, John Wayland's
testing suggests that there may be fewer mechanical keying schemes than
colours, such that black and grey Andersons share the same mechanical
keying scheme and can therefore be mixed.)
The different colours correspond to different voltages:
12V = yellow
18V = orange
24V = red
36V = grey
48V = blue
72V = green
80V = black
96V = brown
120V = purple
144V = white
This is Anderson's recommended voltage key colour code; all colours are
UL rated for 600V and most EVs simply use the grey connectors regardless
of the actual voltage.
Chris Tromley wrote:
> > I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side
> > connector on my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect
> > there, so I used the SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the
> > chassis ground connection temporarily. Recently I had an
Chris, note that Anderson offers a 3-pole version of their SB-175
connector:
<http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pdf/114133s1.pdf>
The 175A rating might be a little overkill for your PFC-20, but the 3
contacts in a single connector make for a neat installation.
You might also consider their PowerPole series (individual contacts and
housings that snap together to form multi-pole connectors):
<http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pp/sp.html>
They offer special make-first/break-last contacts for the earth ground
connection which would be nice, and the contacts are available in
various current ratings so that you could build a connector less
over-built for your application.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
Because, by there design only like colors are supposed
to mate. It's a built in idiot factor.
I'm a complete idiot then - or the one who came up with this idea.
How am I suppose to know that color denotes functionality when
usually it is not?
Are beige $3 120VAC residential outlets in home depots different
from white ones? According to this philosophy, they should be!
I mate black to gray all the time and never thought there is
something wrong with it. I treat it like a bezel for a PC -
you found wrong color which fits, so be it. Doesn't look pretty, but
fits like original. Why should I treat color of other product
differently? Nowhere in the connector it said "use matching
color only".
Here are the
recommended voltages for each connector. we just need
more colors for EVs.
Color Recommended Voltage
Yellow 12V
Orange 18V
Red 24V
Gray 36V
Blue 48V
Green 72V
Black 80V
Brown 96V
Purple 120V
Gadget
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could
make them white,
red, whatever. What makes you think that different
color connectors
should not mate?
Victor
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
FWIW, Stylistics (as all other modern PCs) go hibernate after timeout
of inactivity. No data in RAM is lost (it is mirror stored in special
area of the hard disk) No reboot nesesary Stylistic comes alive
with the screen info just as you left it as soon as HD spins up
(3-4 sec). At least mine does.
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
Will this fancy display reduce range?
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Sure, it will reduce your range by as much as 6 inches.
Well, it would be a lot more than than. But everything hinges on exactly
how much power it is consuming.
Using my previous email, suppose this display is part of a computer that
draws (say) 2.5 amps at 12 = 30 watts. Suppose your EV has a pack of 16
Optimas (16 x 300 watthours = 4800 watthours total). Further, let's say
your range is 30 miles on a charge, and you typically drive for one
hour. Then the fancy display uses 30wh/4800wh = 0.625% of your power and
reduces your range by 0.19 miles. Still not much -- but WAY more than 6
inches! :-)
As I said, the real problem is how much it consumes when parked. You'd
have to keep such a computer off when parked, or it would murder your
batteries fairly soon.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sais "Different color housings are selected to identify voltages".
So it is just another type of labeling then, which also identifies voltages.
This is to help human being to note that he must pay attention and
mating parts may have different voltages. That only works if *you* set
the system for yourself to always use only grey for 36V appliances,
black for 48V (or whatever color) and so on. It will not *prevent* you
(as implied in Anderson's paper) from plugging in wrong color if you
want to. In fact - looks like red physically prevents it, but gray and
black don't. Go figure. Very smart.
Victor
Andrew Letton wrote:
Quoted from Anderson's datasheet for the SB50 (
http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pdf/DS-SB50REV01.pdf ):
"Mechanical
keys ensure connectors will only mate with
connectors of the same color. Different color
housings are selected to identify voltages,
thus preventing mismatching of the power
supply system."
I seem to recall from a conversation with Otmar some time ago that the
grey connector housings can be modified (cut out part of the keying
feature) to become a "universal" SB50... but I can't remember the details.
hth,
Andrew
------
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could make them white,
red, whatever. What makes you think that different color connectors
should not mate?
Victor
Chris Tromley wrote:
OK it's a minor annoyance, but this is where we all learn from each
others'
mistakes, right?
I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side
connector on
my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect there, so I
used the
SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the chassis ground connection
temporarily. Recently I had an order going in to McMaster-Carr and
saw they
have the same connectors, and at a pretty good price. I ordered a black
set. The plan is to bolt the gray and black together back-to-back.
Since
Andersons will only mate to like colors, the black and gray sets should
prevent me from accidentally connecting them wrong (and putting HV on
the
chassis).
Not.
I looked at the black connectors and couldn't see how they differed
from the
gray. Just for fun I slipped contacts into a black one and tried to
mate it
to a gray. "Snick." It fit like they were made for each other.
What the
#!&*?
The gray ones from EV Parts say CMC on them. (EV Parts describes
them as
"Anderson style" - didn't notice that before.) The black ones from
McM-C
say SMH. My big SB350s that I use for pack service disconnects say
Anderson
Power Products. OK, there are apparently several companies copying the
Anderson design, but wouldn't it make sense to really copy it? So it
preserves the very useful can't-mate-it-wrong capability?
What this means is that you can't assume your "Anderson" connector
will mate
to someone else's of the same color, or will be prevented from mating to
someone else's of a different color. Beware.
Chris
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see. It is only their suggestion then. Sort of
use black pen to do math homework and blue one
for spelling tests. You don't have to, but you know
which pen for what work. Any connector handles 600V,
just like any pen is OK for any homework. So it is
only reminder to pay attention to potential trouble.
I would understand if different colors still alowing to mate
would at least be for their suggested adjacent voltage ranges,
like 120V purple could be plugged into 144V white - result
will not be so drastic as allowing plugging 36V gray into
80V black. Any logic here I don't get?
Victor
Roger Stockton wrote:
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Chris, this is just the color of plastic. They could make
them white, red, whatever. What makes you think that
different color connectors should not mate?
Because the different colour housings are mechanically keyed to prevent
mating of differently coloured connectors. (Of course, John Wayland's
testing suggests that there may be fewer mechanical keying schemes than
colours, such that black and grey Andersons share the same mechanical
keying scheme and can therefore be mixed.)
The different colours correspond to different voltages:
12V = yellow
18V = orange
24V = red
36V = grey
48V = blue
72V = green
80V = black
96V = brown
120V = purple
144V = white
This is Anderson's recommended voltage key colour code; all colours are
UL rated for 600V and most EVs simply use the grey connectors regardless
of the actual voltage.
Chris Tromley wrote:
I got a gray SB50 connector set from EV Parts for the pack-side
connector on my PFC-20. I forgot there are three wires to connect
there, so I used the SB50 for the +HV and -HV leads and fudged the
chassis ground connection temporarily. Recently I had an
Chris, note that Anderson offers a 3-pole version of their SB-175
connector:
<http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pdf/114133s1.pdf>
The 175A rating might be a little overkill for your PFC-20, but the 3
contacts in a single connector make for a neat installation.
You might also consider their PowerPole series (individual contacts and
housings that snap together to form multi-pole connectors):
<http://www.andersonpower.com/products/pp/sp.html>
They offer special make-first/break-last contacts for the earth ground
connection which would be nice, and the contacts are available in
various current ratings so that you could build a connector less
over-built for your application.
Cheers,
Roger.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
NO Victor keep it on the main list. The crowd needs to see what we are
doing.
Thanks
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2005 3:18 PM
Subject: CAN controlled cahrger (Re: GFCI with PFC?)
> Rich Rudman wrote:
>
> > And I am not really impressed with CAN, I would rather do a USB level 2
> > port, with GUI user interfaces for lap and Palm tops. Yea Invent my own
> > interface, then publish the hooks and source code to let the more
Digitally
> > enhanced clients of mine, take it from there.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
>
> I would not use anything but CAN (or at least any other differential
> bus type) in automotive environment.
>
> I am *very* impressed with CAN protocol reliability and error handling
> abilities. All that USB, I2C and other implementations for
> computers and embedded things are pathetic jokes compared to CAN.
>
> My hat's off to Robert Bosch - what he did was genious invention.
>
> I'll post a few saved waveforms of the test bus traffic saved by my
> tusty Croy scope - a S/N ratio far less than 1 and looks like total
> mess vs. ground, but ideal pulses after CAN transceiver on the uP side.
>
> If you're not impressed Rich, you probably haven't been exposed to
> it enough.
>
> Anyway, thanks for supporting your all with your chargers. CAN
> controlled PFC charger (add on CAN option) is quite straight
> forward task if you formalise control requirements.
>
> Frankly, I don't see a need for CAN control of a charger unless one
> also has BMS or other CAN enabled hardware which wants to talk to
> the charger.
>
> Perhaps this topic is rather for EVBMS list?
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At least 6.6 Kw 240 volt isolation transformer. Or 30 amps of 240VAC. Same
thing.
The best bet is Rod Hower's 7.5Kva isolation transformer.
I picked up a 15Kva new a couple of years ago for $550. So even spanking
new they are not that expensive.
Just to keep in mind I don't have Iso on my EV, and have had little reason
for it. But... the implied risk is what is forcing me to design one into my
chargers.
Fear of the possible...What a way to sell chargers??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:48 AM
Subject: Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
> --- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > And I have a Iso charger line coming soon. In fact it made full power
> > numbers last night from 120vac. And it did it with %85 apparent power
> > conversion efficiency. This was 130 VAC in and 36 volts out at 50 amps.
So
> > for those that need Iso, I have solutions coming.
> >
> After all this talk of isolation, you guys have me convinced I want to do
it. The problem is, I
> have no idea what to do. I looked at the documents on Manzanitas site but
didn't see anything I
> could work with. I'm not an EE and I didn't play one on TV. And I didn't
sleep at one those hotels
> that make you so smart. I plan on using a PFC-30 in my car, but can't wait
for any new models to
> come out. So when I go to my local Transformers R' Us, what do I ask for?
>
> Thanks
>
> Dave COver
>
--- End Message ---
