EV Digest 4341

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) Re: Hydrogen in Akron?
        by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  2) Re: Lithium chopper?
        by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  3) Re: Flexible instrumentation
        by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  4) RE: Flexible instrumentation
        by "Patrick Plummer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  5) UPS = modular chargers?
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  6) Lithium Chopper?
        by Marvin Campbell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  7) Re: CAN controlled charger (Re: GFCI with PFC?)
        by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  8) Re: Lithium chopper?
        by "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
  9) RE: Flexible instrumentation
        by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 10) Re: Flexible instrumentation
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 11) on board isolation of PFC
        by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 12) Re: Transients,Non-isolated charger stuff
        by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 13) RE: on board isolation of PFC
        by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 14) Re: on board isolation of PFC
        by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 15) RE: UPS = modular chargers?
        by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 16) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
        by "M.G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 17) List and attachments
        by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 18) Re: Non-isolated charger stuff
        by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 19) Re: Flexible instrumentation
        by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 20) Prius PLUG INs  Company BACKGROUNDS ??
        by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 21) An update regarding my JeepEV
        by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 22) The EClubman is registered
        by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 23) RE: Flexible instrumentation
        by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 24) Re: Kewet kwery
        by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 25) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
        by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
umm, hate to burst bubbles, but Metal-Hydrid storage is nothing new.
I've got a 20L tank at home.  They may store H2 at Liquified densities,
but they are very heavy, and product a lot of heat as they "Charge".

Anyway, nothing more than more Hydrogen Spin IMHO.

L8r
 Ryan

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Sorry Rev. you missed it. There are more than 50 pictures. It's in the
early ones.....LR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message ----- From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?



The pictures don't show an electric motor anywhere.
The only thing that looks like one is the harley trans
which has the chain on one side of the bike and the
primary drive belt on the other. The motor must be
inside the S&S engine case, but the area inside the
case for the crankshaft is rather small since these
motors have a dry sump.  seems like a wasted
opportunity.

                           Gadget


--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Of course it is. Look at the early pictures. It
clearly shows an electric
traction motor. Lawrence Rhodes.
----- Original Message ----- From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:27 AM
Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?



>I saw that, too. I don't know these things by sight, are one of those > a controller, or are they the relays and electronics for the > motorcycle ignition and lights? > > I don't see room for a usable amount of batteries. If they hid an > electric motor in the ice motor or tranny it'd have to be pretty > small. > > I'm excited about the notion of lithium chopper -- just not clear to > me there's enough evidence to say this one is it. > > --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> David Dymaxion wrote: >> > Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I >> didn't >> > see anything that indicates this is an electric chopper. Maybe >> just >> > the starter battery is Lithium? >> >> This pic is rather telling: >> >> >

http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
>>
>>
>> This one too:
>>
>>
>

http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Mail
> Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
tour:
> http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>



visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about one of these, for a low power fast boot computer?
http://www.gumstix.com/

L8r
 Ryan

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
 
Take a look at www.mp3car.com for a number of Car PC solutions.  You can also 
google "Car PC" and "Carputer" for more info.
 
A normal Windows XP computer can usually be tuned to boot in less than 30 
seconds by removing unneccesary drivers, fonts, etc and tweaking the bios.  In 
other words, if it turns on when you start the engine, you'll have it up by the 
time you leave the driveway.  I have a Dell that boots in 15-20 seconds, after 
tuning.
 
VIA makes a nice chipset and motherboard for car and other applications called 
the M10000.  Low power and VERY small footprint.  It's capable of fitting in a 
normal car stereo enclosure.  Buy a touch screen monitor for 300-400 and you've 
got a nice replacement for that expensive navigation option from the dealer.  
And one you can upgrade!  Wireless networking and a 100 GB drive, anyone?
 
--Patrick
 
________________________________

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Lee Hart
Sent: Thu 5/5/2005 10:59 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Flexible instrumentation



Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Will this fancy display reduce range? [Windows XP screen shown, so
> I assume there's a full-blown Pentium-class PC somewhere to run it]

A typical laptop PC draws several amps at 12 volts. Most do not have
continuous memory, so unless you power it all the time, it will take
many minutes to reboot each time you start your car, and you won't have
any data saved during the time it's off.

I'll use my own laptop as an example; a Compaq LTE/Lite. It draws
2.5amps at 12v. My 12v battery is 25 amphours, so if the computer were
left on it would kill the battery in 10 hours. If I left the DC/DC
running to power it from the main pack, then I have 11 more 12v
batteries at 50 amphours each. Now it would kill the entire pack in
about 1 week.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity."    -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart  814 8th Ave N  Sartell MN 56377  leeahart_at_earthlink.net



<<winmail.dat>>


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard Kelly asked about UPS reuse in December, but I don't see any replies in 
the archive, so here goes; What about using the guts of salvaged UPS units as 
smart modular chargers?  The electronics recycling businesses around here are 
scrapping plenty of UPS units with bad batteries.  After all, they were 
designed to automatically charge and float SLA batteries, and include 120v 
inverters as a bonus.  Of particular interest to me would be UPS units that 
used NiCads.  
Any merit to this idea?
-Jay Donnaway

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If it's electric, what are those big exhaust pipes coming out the side of
the jugs for? Battery ventilation?:^O
Marv

> From: William Brinsmead <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 08:05:45 -0700
> To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?
> 
> Hi Folks , My guess is it is for short range silent riding in parades
> and was possibly built for someone's funeral, notice the black tape
> across the badge. One beautiful labor of love !!! Cost a bunch. I would
> also like to know more specs. batts motor etc. Bill Brinsmead
> 
> David Dymaxion wrote:
> 
>>> Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing something here, but I didn't
>>> see anything that indicates this is an electric chopper. Maybe just
>>> the starter battery is Lithium?
>> 
>> 
> 
> This pic is rather telling:
> 
> http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
> 
> This one too:
> 
> http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5 May 2005 at 13:50, Charles Whalen wrote:

> I could probably get away
> without having any CAN (or indeed any other type of) control of the
> charger as long as the charger is sufficiently programmable whereby we
> could maybe modify our charging algorithm to add a few additional
> setpoints/steps towards the latter part of the charge.

I may be mistaken and/or in over my head here, but I don't think the PFC 
chargers will do this without a supplemental charge controller - which AFAIK 
has not been designed, much less debugged.  (Rich, please correct me if I'm 
wrong about this.) The PFC's charge control is a fairly rudimentary analog 
design which apparently works best when relying on somewhat smartened 
bypass regulators for part of the input.  (Again, corrections welcome.)  If 
this 
be true, you will probably have to implement most or all of the intelligence 
you need in your external CAN control box.

If you want programmability, the Brusa is one of the most flexible chargers I 
know of.  Of course you'll have to pay your share of the extensive (and 
expensive) Swiss engineering that went into that design.  

I'm no engineer, but I wonder if you could use a PFC for bull in a china shop 
bulk charging, and one of the smaller, less expensive Brusa chargers for finer 
control over later stages.  That might let you use the PFC's analog control to 
shut it off, separate from the BMS and Brusa control.  But I'm just shooting in 
the dark here.

* * * * * 

If I read it aright, what you're proposing is about as far from a turnkey 
solution 
as one can get.  You are definitely out on the bleeding edge of EV battery 
development - without a safety net.  I admire your guts in even proposing this 
project, and I hope you have a good-sized cash cushion to handle the 
inevitable surprises.

> Perhaps this topic is rather for EVBMS list?

Certainly it's specialized, but I think it's fine here.  Does anyone else have 
a 
problem with this thread?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have to get away from hiding electric motors and components in simulated
motorcycle engines and gas tanks.

I've done a couple hubmotor bicycle chopper projects with neon lights that
look pretty cool without going for the "V" look at:

http://www.skootercommuter.com

So I want to see someone build a real ELECTRIC chopper. Integrate the
electrics as part of the design. Make some cool cooling fins for the motor
and controller that go with the design of the bike. Do something interesting
with the frame and fairings. Work with the parts instead of hiding them.

Chip Gribben
ScooterWerks Electric Scooter and Bike Repair
http://www.scooterwerks.com

SkooterCommuter
http://www.skootercommuter.com

NEDRA
http://www.nedra.com

----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 5:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?


> The pictures don't show an electric motor anywhere.
> The only thing that looks like one is the harley trans
> which has the chain on one side of the bike and the
> primary drive belt on the other. The motor must be
> inside the S&S engine case, but the area inside the
> case for the crankshaft is rather small since these
> motors have a dry sump.  seems like a wasted
> opportunity.
>
>                             Gadget
>
>
> --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Of course it is.  Look at the early pictures.  It
> > clearly shows an electric
> > traction motor.  Lawrence Rhodes.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:27 AM
> > Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?
> >
> >
> > >I saw that, too. I don't know these things by
> > sight, are one of those
> > > a controller, or are they the relays and
> > electronics for the
> > > motorcycle ignition and lights?
> > >
> > > I don't see room for a usable amount of batteries.
> > If they hid an
> > > electric motor in the ice motor or tranny it'd
> > have to be pretty
> > > small.
> > >
> > > I'm excited about the notion of lithium chopper --
> > just not clear to
> > > me there's enough evidence to say this one is it.
> > >
> > > --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >> David Dymaxion wrote:
> > >> > Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing
> > something here, but I
> > >> didn't
> > >> > see anything that indicates this is an electric
> > chopper. Maybe
> > >> just
> > >> > the starter battery is Lithium?
> > >>
> > >> This pic is rather telling:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> This one too:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Mail
> > > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> > tour:
> > > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
> > >
> >
> >
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lightning Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> How about one of these, for a low power fast boot computer? 
> http://www.gumstix.com/

Looks slick, but no power spec that I could find, and no price either.

The downside for someone like myself is that I'm not familiar with Linux
and would therefore look toward a platform that I'm more familiar with
the programming of.

Patrick Plummer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Take a look at www.mp3car.com for a number of Car PC 
> solutions.

> VIA makes a nice chipset and motherboard for car and other 
> applications called the M10000.  Low power and VERY small 
> footprint.

I didn't see a power spec anywhere (didn't search very long though).
The killer here is price: $400-700 for the PC + $90-150 for a power
supply + $300-450 for a display/touchscreen.

I suppose it comes down to what you want a PC in your car for, but the
original suggestion was for replacing EV specific guages that cost on
the order of $100 each.

I would suggest that a more reasonable platform might be the PC104.

For gauge driving/E-meter data logging, one needs nothing more than a
386 (less actually, but I couldn't find anything lower powered ;^).

A WinSystems PCM-SX (386/33) consumes 375mA @5V and is just 3.6"x3.8".
No display driver, so you'd interface it to a serial or parallel LCD/VFD
display.  No need for Windows or Linux; you'd just write your code in
QBasic under DOS.  By contrast, their PCM-586 (133MHz 586) consumes 1.2A
@ 5V.  If you really want to just plug in an off-the-shelf video
display, there is the SAT-SXPlus (386/33 with video and ethernet) which
consumes 900mA @ 5V (with 2Mb DRAM).

For comparison, Kontron offers the MOPS/386A (40MHz 386), which consumes
430mA @ 5V, but has an operating temperature range of just 0 to +60C
while the WinSystems offerings state -40C to +85C.

I didn't stumble across prices for the 386 PC104 single board computers,
but expect them to be about $100. Add on a serial LCD or VFD display for
$30-50 and I think this is an economically viable alternative to the
used Palm/handheld.

Cheers,

Roger.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- There is a group out there doing pc dashes and stereo controllers and are using a disk on a chip + linux bios to boot in a few seconds as you turn the key. The bios switches to 32bit in 4 instructions and unzips the kernel into memory in seconds. the HD is for the mp3 files :-)

http://www.linuxdevices.com/links/LK8294110575.html
http://wiki.linuxbios.org/index.php/Documentation
http://www.dashpc.com/   these guys are booting off of a compact flash card

Somewhere, in digging around on the net i came across someone who has merged the 2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Alone, at home in my own garage, I want high power chargeing which would require a big ISO transformer, AND I don't relly need the iso (maybe it'l keep the cat off the darn car :-) )
but when I am opertunity chargeing, which is gonna be low amps and out in public with potential for curious fingers+rain, etc, Iso might be nice.


If I rigged up some way of limiting the current automagicaly when connected to the iso transformer, could I use one of those small 240 to 110 step down transformers, wired backwards as an ISO ? I have one now that is about 10 lbs I use to work on 240V computers and monitors on my bench.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
      Hi Lee and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee wrote this:
> >> 1000-volt transients are common on the AC line,
> and can reach 6000
> >> volts during thunderstorms. Your controller isn't
> built to survive
> >> such events. So, I would include a switch or
> contactors to
> >> disconnect BOTH positive and negative wires
> between the battery
> >> pack and controller during charging.
> 
> Ryan Bohm wrote:
> > I understand that this *can* happen. I'd like to
> know if anyone *has*
> > toasted anything due to these line transients?
> 
> I live in an area where thunderstorms are common.
> I'd say on average
> that we get a serious lightning strike every few
> years. Typically, it
> finds the weakest link on your AC powerline and
> destroys it.

   In the Tampa bay area, we have more lightning than
almost anywhere on earth and was also a TV, Stereo
repairman in my youth. Ligthning counted for about 1/5
of our income!!!! It's rare if once a day or more a
lightning damaged piece didn't come in.
   And yes, lightning does strike the same spot
twice!! We can't even use windgens here as repairs
cost too much from lightning strikes about twice a yr.
   So yes, it is a problem!!! I've even been hit twice
by it which may explain a lot ;-))
   Someone just got hit today and put in the hospital.
Sometimes 3-5/day will get hit in the summer.
               HTH's,
                  Jerry Dycus

> 


                
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I have is an onboard GFCI.  This ensures that if any problems during
opportunity charging will be protected with the GFCI.

I have given up trying to make the "automagic" part of opportunity charging
(e.g. setting current etc).  So I have a permanent current meter mounted so
I can adjust the current appropriately.

Don




Victoria, BC, Canada
 
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/

-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Jeff Shanab
Sent: May 5, 2005 5:02 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: on board isolation of PFC

Alone, at home in my own garage, I want high power chargeing which would
require a big ISO transformer, AND I don't relly need the iso (maybe it'l
keep the cat off the darn car :-)  ) but when I am opertunity chargeing,
which is gonna be low amps and out in public with potential for curious
fingers+rain, etc, Iso might be nice.

If I rigged up some way of limiting the current automagicaly when connected
to the iso transformer, could I use one of those small 240 to 110 step down
transformers, wired backwards  as an ISO ?  I have one now that is about 10
lbs I use to work on 240V computers and monitors on my bench.

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are going to need something bigger.  If you are going to charge at 240 
volts at 50 amps that is 240 x 50 = 12000 watts.  This is the same as 120 volts 
at 100 amps which = 12000 watts. 

The transformer you need is 12000 watts or 12 KW x 1.25 = 15 KVA Size for 50 
amp or 7.5 KVA for 25 amp.  The small transformer you have will be rated at 
about 50 to 100 VA which is good for about 1 amp at 120 volt! Look at one of 
these pole mounted transformers that feed a house, these will range from 15 KVA 
to 25 KVA.

My on board PFC-50 would not be isolated if I bolt the charger frame to the car 
frame and the batteries in a metal frame attach to the car body with the 
battery connected to the control system while it is charging. 

I install the batteries in a totally enclosed epoxy coated fiberglass battery 
box and also install the battery charger in a separated epoxy coated fiberglass 
enclosurers.  

The batteries are disconnected from the motor control system by using two 
safety contactors.  The batteries and charger are now completely isolated from 
the car body and there is no potential, leakage or any conductance between any 
charger and batteries circuit to the EV body. 

It is now like off-board charging.  Ever since I did this mod the batteries are 
staying super clean by exhausting clean filter air through the enclosurers. 

Roland 
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Jeff Shanab<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
  To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List<mailto:[email protected]> 
  Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 6:02 PM
  Subject: on board isolation of PFC


  Alone, at home in my own garage, I want high power chargeing which would 
  require a big ISO transformer, AND I don't relly need the iso (maybe 
  it'l keep the cat off the darn car :-)  )
  but when I am opertunity chargeing, which is gonna be low amps and out 
  in public with potential for curious fingers+rain, etc, Iso might be nice.

  If I rigged up some way of limiting the current automagicaly when 
  connected to the iso transformer, could I use one of those small 240 to 
  110 step down transformers, wired backwards  as an ISO ?  I have one now 
  that is about 10 lbs I use to work on 240V computers and monitors on my 
  bench.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message --- Sure, there lots of merit. Scrounging is the highest form of recycling :-) The only downside is the same with any modular charger scheme, one charger may fail while the others keep on working. If you are not paying close attention you could easily reverse and ruin the undercharged battery.

If I had access to scrapped UPS units I would definitely be collecting them. There are plenty of upsides to modular charging. The best being that each battery will get exactly the charge it needs. Of course most UPS units are probably not built to charge at a very high rate, but I have always liked the idea of a big dumb series charger for bulk charging the pack which shuts off early with modular charging that tops each battery off just right.

damon

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: UPS = modular chargers?
Date: Thu, 05 May 2005 18:56:50 -0400

Richard Kelly asked about UPS reuse in December, but I don't see any replies in the archive, so here goes; What about using the guts of salvaged UPS units as smart modular chargers? The electronics recycling businesses around here are scrapping plenty of UPS units with bad batteries. After all, they were designed to automatically charge and float SLA batteries, and include 120v inverters as a bonus. Of particular interest to me would be UPS units that used NiCads.
Any merit to this idea?
-Jay Donnaway

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They use 6000 volts as the limit because any higher voltage will arc
over somewhere before it gets past your home's fusebox. In other words,
the product under test won't see it; something ahead of it will take the
"hit".


Would it be helpful if a lightning arrestor was installed on the powerline in the fusebox? I have one and it comes with a $5000 insurance policy. Mike G.


--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi All

This one is for the list controllers.

I noticed a "winmail.dat" attachment today, and something similar recently. Have the list computers been changed again and the attachment stripping been lost again?

Needs to be looked at.

Thanks

James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
M.G. wrote:
> They use 6000 volts as the limit because any higher voltage will arc
> over somewhere before it gets past your home's fuse box. In other words,
> the product under test won't see it; something ahead of it will take the
> "hit".
> 
> Would it be helpful if a lightning arrestor was installed on the power line 
> in the >fuse box? I have one and it comes with a $5000 insurance policy.

The local power company here offers this:

http://www.oge.com/es/rc/wd/watts-dog.asp 

I'd like to see what the "external meter collar" looks like and what
exactly it is and what it does.  Any guesses or info on it?

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,

What OS are you running? The specs on the website 
http://www.surplussales.com/ComputerAccess/fujitsu.html say 'Made for Windows 
95', even with the max RAM, 32 MB it will not run Win 2000 or XP, so it is 
either win 95 or 98, correct?

Rush Dougherty
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org


----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 12:36 PM
Subject: Re: Flexible instrumentation


> Sorry, corection - 12V power to my stylistic was taken from KL30 net,
> so external power to is is lost when ignition is off. This makes
> PC to switch to internal battery which in turn forces to
> hibernate after timeout.
> 
> I think (unverified though) you can force it in BIOS to hibernate
> while on external power too.
> 
> -- 
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This POST   really has me "Charged UP"  !!!

If these folks can really give the Prius Owners a "Plug-In" mod. for a reasonable cost, and JACK their fuel usage from 40-45 to over 100
week in - week out this is the stepping Stone, NO the Holy Grail to more Pure BEV's we are all waiting for..... !!!


Before I sell my house, resign from the Presidency of the Seattle EV Association, etc. etc. would like more background on these companies involved.

Question ONE: Are they an off-shoot of CalCars.org who have been working towards this Plug-In Prius Hybrid for some time ??

2. Who are:  a. Energy Control Systems Engineering
             b. Clean-Tech LLC
              c. Valence Technology (  sounds vaguely familiar...)

Is it all vapor ware, made out of "un-obtainium" or ... ARE they on the BRINK of T H E N E X T B I G T H I N G


Geeeezzzzz..... the concept has merit !

Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle,  WA  98115-7230
Day:  206 850-8535
Eve:  206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web:     http://www.seattleeva.org

--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,

Since I can't answer Matt's question below without doing some explaining, and because I've been meaning to follow-up on some of the discussions regarding things that I've worked on on my Jeep:

Matt Holthausen wrote (in the "batteries and range" thread):
> Nick,Just out of curiosity, what kind of range do you get
> with your vehicle and this pack?

Currently, the answer is "not enough" (roughly interpreted as "20-25 miles if I'm lucky"). Everything below relates to why my range is _still_ sub-par and/or how I'm trying to improve it. (Each paragraph is a separate thought):

The first thing to mention again is my battery issues, which I don't think I ever quite solved. It's been over a month now since I began actually charging them properly and doing regular equalization charges in hopes of reversing the bad bad things I did to them (chronic undercharging across ~80 cycles and some way-to-deep discharges). So far, I've been able to bring their apparent capacity up some. Also, when they are fully charged I can now pull about 295 amps from them before they fall below 1.75 volts per cell, which is a (minor) improvement. So overall it looks to me like my efforts to revitalize my abused pack aren't helping much, and that my current pack isn't going to get any better than it is now. (though I'll keep trying until I can get a new pack).

Admist all my battery drama, I think I've discovered another thing that is eating up my range and efficiency: my transmission. I believe I have a bad bearing (or something wrong) in my transmission. Some clues are that my tranny is _very_ noisy (and getting louder), gets very warm after driving, is for some reason impossible to drive in 3rd gear without pegging the battery side ammeter (400A) and pulling way too many motor amps, and to my knowledge is original meaning it has ~410,000 miles on it (yes, that's 410,000 :-0 ). Hopefully I'll be able to replace the transmission soon (if I can find a replacement that isn't too expensive)...

For those who don't remember my discussion about tires awhile back, I ended up buying new tires for my Jeep, in hopes of decreasing my Jeep's rolling resistance (among other things). At first I was concerned that my new tires, Pirelli Scorpion STRs, weren't any better than my old ones as far as RR is concerned. However, having had them for awhile now, I can report that they have made an improvement. My Jeep seems to coast and handle much better now than before. My Jeep has been using less energy per mile since I got them, resulting in a slight range improvement.

As indicated by some of my other posts, I recently got a used Todd 30A DC/DC converter to replace my zorched DCP unit which Mark Farver and I still haven't gotten around to fixing. Despite the weird noises it makes, the Todd seems to be working fine. Though, it is annoying to have to disconnect it every time I charge, as I'm scared to let it see my high charging voltages (195 volts during the finish charge). And, of course, the Todd DC/DC, like the DCP, struggles when I have my MR2 power steering pump on. So I'm continuing to drive with the pump unplugged and use manual steering for now (which is hard in this Jeep). I hope to build, or at least attempt to build, a high power DC/DC converter this summer when I have more time, as I really want a converter that does around 1kW @ 14.4 volts and works across a reasonable voltage range for my EV (90-250 volts)...

A last issue I'm still working to resolve:

Several times recently, when I've been pulling high battery/ motor currents for like 5+ seconds at a time (i.e. flooring it to accelerate up a large hill). my Zilla 1K has randomly freaked out on me. In doing so, it throws out the main contactor leaving me powerless :-/. Otmar has been great at helping me to figure out what's causing this, and hopefully I'll have time to try/implement some more of his suggestions soon to see if they make the problem disappear. Of course, if I was at least able to consistently recreate the problem, that'd be helpful too...


If you've made it this far, thanks for listening as I continue my quest to rid my JeepEV of it's remaining "personal" problems. :-)
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------

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Hi all,

Just a quick note to let you know that my electric PRB Clubman is now
registered and ready to drive the streets of Sydney.

He he - it only took two years :-)

It's not finished yet, of course, but is finished enough for the RTA to
let me drive it on the road.

Mark Fowler

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Or if you are after something that is built to go in a car...
http://www.mini-box.com/site/index.html

They have a power simulator
http://resources.mini-box.com/online/powersimulator/powersimulator.html

These beasties can use less than 10W for a full blown Windows or Linux
computer.
Being a modern computer can suspend to Ram or Disk.

Mark

-----Original Message-----
From: Lightning Ryan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: Friday, 6 May 2005 8:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Flexible instrumentation


How about one of these, for a low power fast boot computer?
http://www.gumstix.com/

L8r
  Ryan

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> I suspect the series coil provides most of the field strength
> and the shunt coil just gives a torque boost at startup. If that is the
> case, then the small shunt field will not give the SepEx controller much to
> work with when it comes to speed control.  Do you get a big speed boost when
> the shunt field drops out at 15 mph?  If not, then the series field is
> probably doing most of the work.  Dropping the series field would then leave
> the motor short on torque at higher armature current, maybe arcing at the
> brushes, and overload the controller because too much inductance was removed
> from the motor circuit.  But, the SepEx controller may still work just fine,
> just don't take out the series coil.  Most people bypass the series coil to
> get more speed once armature voltage is at its max.  But, you are doubling
> the available armature voltage, so your top speed will be much higher
> already.  The SepEx controller  will still try to reduce shunt field voltage
> to get more speed if the throttle calls for it, and that should be ok.
>
> Does this SepEx controller  take care of reverse by changing shunt field
> polarity?  If so,  That could be a problem, because then the series and
> shunt fields will be fighting each other and strange things can result.
> Perhaps others on the list can fill in the gaps in my logic and correct my
> errors?  Thanks,  Mark T.


I posted the Kewet motor specs 2 years ago, so I doubt many would remember:

Field series resistance when cold = 0.0017 ohm, rated 250A, for 106 watts of
power, while field shunt resistance when cold = 6.42 ohm, rated 6A, for 231
watts of power, so the shunt field is stronger at rated values.

The SEM3 controller has a programming unit to set min/max values for the field
and armature, so I may be able to get more power from the shunt winding for
very short periods, but that would also be "beyond rated current". I intended
to use the controller to do reverse, so the switch that chooses reverse will
have to also remove the series field. I just wondered if the series field will
help while running a SepEx controller. My main concern is mot frying anything,
either motor or controller!

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Nick, a few thoughts on your tranny:

I used to have a Jeep Cherokee. It seemed it would really scoot in
1st and 2nd, but not so much in 3rd and higher. Wind resistance may
be starting to play a role.

So a test you could do is to jack up the drive wheels, and see how
much current it takes to turn the wheels in each gear. If 3rd is much
higher you've proved the problem. I'm not sure this is the case in
the Jeep, but 4th is direct in many cars, so you hopefully see less
current draw in that gear. Don't spin the unloaded wheels very fast,
at higher speeds a destructive resonance can set in that can destroy
something.

If you find 4th is measurably more efficient, you might want to put
in lower (higher numerically) gearing in the differential(s).
Hopefully then you could get 4th to top out at your max cruising
speed.

Since that tranny is very well broken in, it might have less friction
than a replacement would, so it might be better to have it fixed if
needed.

--- Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...
>       Admist all my battery drama, I think I've discovered another thing
> that 
> is eating up my range and efficiency: my transmission. I believe I
> have 
> a bad bearing (or something wrong) in my transmission. Some clues
> are 
> that my tranny is _very_ noisy (and getting louder), gets very warm
> 
> after driving, is for some reason impossible to drive in 3rd gear 
> without pegging the battery side ammeter (400A) and pulling way too
> many 
> motor amps, and to my knowledge is original meaning it has ~410,000
> 
> miles on it (yes, that's 410,000 :-0 ). Hopefully I'll be able to 
> replace the transmission soon (if I can find a replacement that
> isn't 
> too expensive)...
> ...





                
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