EV Digest 4343
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) TdS Report #23: 2 Dollars Off Coupon from the Tour de Sol
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) TdS Report #24: Tour de Sol Events at Empire State Plaza
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
3) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Kewet kwery
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Prius PLUG INs Company BACKGROUNDS ??
by "EAA-contact" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Field strength, was Re: Kewet kwery
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
8) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: List and attachments
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Phillip's FTC video link?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Lithium chopper?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
15) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Ariana EV, Horlacher EV's for production is possible - another
daydream or reality?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Prius PLUG INs Company BACKGROUNDS ??
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: An update regarding my JeepEV
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: UPS = modular chargers?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #23: 2 Dollars Off Coupon from the Tour de Sol
NESEA has arranged for a $2 discount off the regular $7 dollar admission price
to Saratoga's Spring Auto Show. The coupon is available as a PDF document that
you can download and print at:
http://www.nesea.org/transportation/tour/Auto_Show_Coupon.pdf
Tell them the Tour de Sol Reports sent you!
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #24: Tour de Sol Events at Empire State Plaza
Some notes to help you plan your trip to the Tour de Sol in Empire State Plaza
in Albany, New York ...
The 2005 Tour de Sol
The Sustainable Energy and Transportation Festival and Competition
Green "Car Show" and More
at Empire State Plaza
Albany, New York
Monday May 16 2005
10am-2pm
Free
Featuring a 50- vehicle display to highlight the winners of the Tour de Sol and
show real world examples of business and government working together to produce
clean transportation solutions in New York State and beyond.
- Hybrid vehicles
- Hydrogen and natural gas vehicles
- Biofueled vehicles
- Neighborhood vehicles
- E-bikes
- Advanced technologies & fuels
- Student and industry-built concept vehicles
With gasoline prices soaring, oil wars in the Middle East, and greenhouse gases
25% higher than at any time over the last 400,000 years, there is no better
time to explore transportation options. Developing and using climate friendly,
secure and non-toxic energy to power our economy and our transportation system,
and improve our health and quality of life is an achievable goal.
Schedule of Events - May 16, 2005
10:00 am Open
11:00 am Tour de Sol Welcome and Awards Presentation - on the stage:
George E. Pataki, Governor, State of New York (invited)
Daniel D Hogan, Commissioner, Office of General Services
Denise M. Sheehan, Acting Commissioner,
New York State Department of Environmental Conservation
Robert Callender, VP for Programs
New York State Energy Research and Development Authority
Helen Eisenfeld, Director of Electric Transportation
New York Power Authority
Nancy Hazard, Executive Director
Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
2:00 pm Close
Exhibit Highlights:
Tour de Sol Championship
Monte Carlo-style Rally
E-bike Entrants
Sponsor Exhibits
Vehicle and advanced transportation technology exhibits by New York
State business leaders, Clean Cities stakeholders, and the Clean Fueled Vehicle
Program.
- Three new hybrid SUVs � Toyota Highlander, Lexus RX 400h and Ford Escape -
that all get 30 mpg or better in the EPA city driving cycle
- Hybrid sedans � 45-70 mpg by Honda and Toyota
- Honda's hydrogen fuel cell vehicle, the FCX, and hydrogen fueling by Plug
Power
- Compressed Natural Gas vehicles � from light cars to heavy trucks and
buses
- Propane-powered ice cream delivery � from Schwan's
- Advanced hybrid transit bus in service in NYS � by Orion and BAE Systems
- Hybrid Taxi prototype for NYC - by AFTCO and Advanced Energy Conversions
- New Emission reduction technology for trucks and buses - by Donaldson Co
Inc. and Cummins Northeast
- Idle emission reduction through electrification � the MorElectric Truck by
Caterpillar
- Hybrid delivery vehicle - from FedEx
- New ceramic brakes by Star Fire
- Battery electric vehicle - 230 mile range - by Electrovaya with its
Lithium SuperPolymer batteries
- Plug-in hybrid vehicle - 120 mpg - with Valence Corp. lithium batteries
- Biodiesel suppliers and vehicles - Environmental Alternatives, Quebec
Advanced Transportation Institute's biodiesel SMART, NYS's Vogelbilt Ford250
and more
- E-bikes and neighborhood electric vehicles
- Over a dozen student-built vehicles competing in the Tour de Sol
Championship that aim to work toward zero oil and greenhouse gas emission
vehicles including two solar assisted vehicles from New York State:
Cato Meridian High School
West Irondequoit High School
Purpose-built hybrid biofuel vehicles
Battery-electric vehicles from Maine to Washington State
And much more
- OEM-built vehicles in Tour de Sol's new Monte Carlo-style Rally & 100 mpg
Challenge
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor and All,
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Does anyone knows what this company is and what is
> it
> doing to the sparrows other than praying (this last
> activity is just emphasized too much)?
>
> http://www.myersmotors.com/
They are selling Sparrow parts and doing service
on and upgrading them. Unlike Corbin, they do take
suggestions and work to improve the Sparrows.
They are also trying to build a better 3wh EV when
they found out the Sparrow wasn't it as too hard,
costly to produce. They are a good company that seems
to care. I wish them the best.
Myers joined my EVProduction list but hasn't
posted yet. I guess trying to find good ideas to use
on their next one. I'm glad to help them or anyone put
EV's into production. Plenty of room for all!!
Time to put another coat on the Freedom EV plug
mold.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
>
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myers motors is building the new Sparrow.
It sounds like they are getting back into production soon.
I have done business with them and they are very good to deal with.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 12:10 PM
Subject: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
> Does anyone knows what this company is and what is it
> doing to the sparrows other than praying (this last
> activity is just emphasized too much)?
>
> http://www.myersmotors.com/
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The power dissipated by the resistance in a field coil will not tell you how
strong the magnetic field is. Field strength is determined by (current *
number of turns) in the coil. For example, take two coils with the same
number of turns and the same current, but one has bigger wire. Both will
produce the same field strength, but the one with the bigger wire will have
less resistance and use less power (I^2*R). Leave the series field in if
your main concern is not frying the motor or controller. More field will
allow the motor to produce more torque with less current, and the series
field may be providing inductance the controller needs to avoid overcurrent.
This means you will need a reversing contactor on the series field to get
its polarity correct for reverse operation. These are interesting questions.
Hopefully you will get a 2nd opinion from others on the list. Mark T.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 11:56 PM
Subject: Re: Kewet kwery
I suspect the series coil provides most of the field strength
and the shunt coil just gives a torque boost at startup. If that is the
case, then the small shunt field will not give the SepEx controller much
to
work with when it comes to speed control. Do you get a big speed boost
when
the shunt field drops out at 15 mph? If not, then the series field is
probably doing most of the work. Dropping the series field would then
leave
the motor short on torque at higher armature current, maybe arcing at the
brushes, and overload the controller because too much inductance was
removed
from the motor circuit. But, the SepEx controller may still work just
fine,
just don't take out the series coil. Most people bypass the series coil
to
get more speed once armature voltage is at its max. But, you are
doubling
the available armature voltage, so your top speed will be much higher
already. The SepEx controller will still try to reduce shunt field
voltage
to get more speed if the throttle calls for it, and that should be ok.
Does this SepEx controller take care of reverse by changing shunt field
polarity? If so, That could be a problem, because then the series and
shunt fields will be fighting each other and strange things can result.
Perhaps others on the list can fill in the gaps in my logic and correct
my
errors? Thanks, Mark T.
I posted the Kewet motor specs 2 years ago, so I doubt many would
remember:
Field series resistance when cold = 0.0017 ohm, rated 250A, for 106 watts
of
power, while field shunt resistance when cold = 6.42 ohm, rated 6A, for
231
watts of power, so the shunt field is stronger at rated values.
The SEM3 controller has a programming unit to set min/max values for the
field
and armature, so I may be able to get more power from the shunt winding
for
very short periods, but that would also be "beyond rated current". I
intended
to use the controller to do reverse, so the switch that chooses reverse
will
have to also remove the series field. I just wondered if the series field
will
help while running a SepEx controller. My main concern is mot frying
anything,
either motor or controller!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve, The PriusPlus, CalCar and Energy CS companies are all working together
to create a viable upgrade to the Prius. In Northern California, the PriusPlus
team is focusing on NiMH battery pack, and in Southern California the Energy CS
team is focusing on LiOn. So far there are at least 2 working prototypes. In
fact, on Saturday, May 21st (12-2) the East Bay EAA (www.ebeaa.org) is
featuring the PriusPlus vehicle at our meeting. Going to get the latest updates
on both projects. I think the Valence LiOn version was shipped over and
featured at the EV Show in Monico last month. -Ed--- On Fri 05/06, Electro
Automotive < [EMAIL PROTECTED] > wrote:From: Electro Automotive [mailto:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Fri, 06 May 2005 08:32:15 -0700Subject:
Re: Prius PLUG INs Company BACKGROUNDS ??At 08:46 PM 5/5/05 -0700, you
wrote:>This POST really has me "Charged UP" !!!>>If these folks can
really give the Prius Owners a "Plug-In" mod. for a
>reasonable cost, and JACK their fuel usage from 40-45 to over 100>week
in - week out this is the stepping Stone, NO the Holy Grail to >more Pure
BEV's we are all waiting for..... !!!>>Before I sell my house, resign
from the Presidency of the Seattle EV >Association, etc. etc. would like
more background on these companies >involved.>>Question ONE: Are they
an off-shoot of CalCars.org who have been working >towards this Plug-In
Prius Hybrid for some time ??>>2. Who are: a. Energy Control Systems
Engineering> b. Clean-Tech LLC> c. Valence Technology ( sounds vaguely
familiar...)>>Is it all vapor ware, made out of "un-obtainium" or ... ARE
they on the >BRINK of T H E N E X T B I G T H I N GThey're real, as far as I
can tell. Energy CS is working with CalCars. They built the second PRIUS+
prototype, using Valence lithium batteries. From what I have heard, Valence are
VERY spendy.
_______________________________________________
Join Excite! - http://www.excite.com
The most personalized portal on the Web!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<The power dissipated by the resistance in a field coil will not tell you how
strong the magnetic field is. Field strength is determined by (current *
number of turns) in the coil. For example, take two coils with the same
number of turns and the same current, but one has bigger wire. Both will
produce the same field strength, but the one with the bigger wire will have
less resistance and use less power (I^2*R). >>
I didn't know this - I just assumed equal wattages meant equal fields, since the
motor manufacturers I've contacted never include such things as turns per coil.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Rich. What I wanted to know, since the Corbin does not
exist per se, Myers must have palns, molds, basically licence
to duplicate now what Corbin did back in 1999-2003.
I can't understand from Myers' site if they are upgrading
existing Sparrows with options they list, or [planning to]
manufacture inproved Sparrows from scratch as Corbin attempted.
You can't order them, but they have parts. Weird, how this
business of theirs can be sustained then, offering
repair for non-produced vehicle 285 of which ever existed...
Victor
Rich Rudman wrote:
Myers motors is building the new Sparrow.
It sounds like they are getting back into production soon.
I have done business with them and they are very good to deal with.
Rich
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 12:10 PM
Subject: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
Does anyone knows what this company is and what is it
doing to the sparrows other than praying (this last
activity is just emphasized too much)?
http://www.myersmotors.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the heads-up. I've contacted the gurus at SJSU about this.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would like to see a video (or a clear description) of Phillip's FTC (Free
To Caster) method of lean steering.
Can someone help?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6 May 2005 at 12:10, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Does anyone knows what this company is and what is it
> doing to the sparrows other than praying (this last
> activity is just emphasized too much)?
>
> http://www.myersmotors.com/
These folks are not far from where I work. I visited them a while back. I
saw lots of sparrows and parts, a little bit of work being done on them, and
an EV prototype-in-progress.
They are supporting the Sparrow with spares and even taking some in for
upgrading and repair. They were planning to assemble the last batch that
had been ready to build when Corbin shut down, but I heard recently that
they are now not going to do that for some reason. They are tinkering with
other designs.
They seem to have a good sized nest egg to play with thanks to selling their
transformer business to a big corporation. Let's hope they don't lose their
shirts as so many other EV operations have. They hired Rod Hower to do some
consulting work for them so they have at least one experienced EV person
available to them.
As for the religion, given what I had read about them - that the owners are
very religious people - I expected to see religious symbols all over the
place and other indications of fervent faith, but I did not. While I was
there, nobody even mentioned religion that I recall, but they did mention it
to various reporters who have talked to them. It doesn't make much
difference to me either way as what counts IMO is what the company
accomplishes with the Sparrow.
Based on what I saw of things, they certainly are ^not^ behaving in some of
the disturbing ways that Corbin did. Far from it. For instance, there
wasn't a Bentley limo in sight. ;-)
I wish them the best.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Myers Motors is not building any Sparrows now. They assembled
a few, perhaps four, last year mostly from parts and pieces they
had acquired after Corbin's bankruptcy. They quit when the many
problems with the cars became evident. I think their plan is to
design a better car and maybe someday produce it. Let's hope
they can and will do it.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 06, 2005 12:38 PM
Subject: Re: Do Sparrow fans know this company?
Myers motors is building the new Sparrow.
It sounds like they are getting back into production soon.
I have done business with them and they are very good to deal with.
Rich
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
12 of 25 In the project build.. It's buried. You have to click a second
time on the second set of numbers. LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 3:38 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?
I've looked at all 60 pictures and can see nothing. is
there some others that are not currently up?
--- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Sorry Rev. you missed it. There are more than 50
pictures. It's in the
early ones.....LR>>>>>>>>>>>>>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Reverend Gadget" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 2:45 PM
Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?
> The pictures don't show an electric motor
anywhere.
> The only thing that looks like one is the harley
trans
> which has the chain on one side of the bike and
the
> primary drive belt on the other. The motor must be
> inside the S&S engine case, but the area inside
the
> case for the crankshaft is rather small since
these
> motors have a dry sump. seems like a wasted
> opportunity.
>
> Gadget
>
>
> --- Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Of course it is. Look at the early pictures. It
>> clearly shows an electric
>> traction motor. Lawrence Rhodes.
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> To: <[email protected]>
>> Sent: Thursday, May 05, 2005 9:27 AM
>> Subject: Re: Lithium chopper?
>>
>>
>> >I saw that, too. I don't know these things by
>> sight, are one of those
>> > a controller, or are they the relays and
>> electronics for the
>> > motorcycle ignition and lights?
>> >
>> > I don't see room for a usable amount of
batteries.
>> If they hid an
>> > electric motor in the ice motor or tranny it'd
>> have to be pretty
>> > small.
>> >
>> > I'm excited about the notion of lithium chopper
--
>> just not clear to
>> > me there's enough evidence to say this one is
it.
>> >
>> > --- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> >> David Dymaxion wrote:
>> >> > Thanks for the link. Maybe I'm missing
>> something here, but I
>> >> didn't
>> >> > see anything that indicates this is an
electric
>> chopper. Maybe
>> >> just
>> >> > the starter battery is Lithium?
>> >>
>> >> This pic is rather telling:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/project/13.html
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> This one too:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >
>>
>
http://www.bigbearchoppers.com/gallery/bbc_builds/chp_sled/completed/34.html
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Yahoo! Mail
>> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take
the
>> tour:
>> > http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
>> >
>>
>>
>
> visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<< They quit when the many problems with the cars became evident. I think their
plan is to design a better car and maybe someday produce it. Let's hope they
can and will do it. >>
If it doesn't look like a duck if painted yellow, they'll already be way ahead.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've done some consulting work for MM and think they
are honest and are working very hard to make the
Sparrow successful. This is a real uphill battle
though considering the current EV market.
They did hire a full time engineer, Dale Glubrecht -
who was the pioneer on the John Deere hybrid project.
Dale is very qualified and hopefully will keep this
venture going towards a new design that is
successfull. This is a very steep hill to climb
however, I wish them the best in their efforts.
Regardless of the current EV market, the Sparrow is
very fun to drive and attracts lots of attention. I
think this is the key to some success, selling these
vehicles as 'green' technology and excellent mobile
advertising. I would think the price of a Sparrow is
better spent than a stationary billboard and I think
this is attracting some new customers (and it is!).
Rod
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
my bet is your voltge drops and the dc dc can't keep up , the 12v supply
drops and the zilla opens the contactor . I've had this happen when I hit
the brakes with the lights on ,
That's what I thought too the first two times it happened. However, the
only other two times I got it to happen, my 12v battery was fully
charged and showed no signs of sagging below 12 volts. (had no DC/DC
converter at the time).
However, I've had/ have some stray currents leaking into my 12 volt
system during high motor current draws (think LEDs in the dash which are
NOT supposed to be lit glowing dimly during acceleration). I'm thinking
this might have something to do with the problem...
As far as I can tell now, the best way to make the problem occur is:
1) Floor it in 2nd gear from a stop (pulling large battery/motor currents)
2) hold it floored for about 3 seconds
3) quickly release the accelerator for a second
4) quickly floor the accelerator again
5) repeat 3 to 4 at least one more time
6) Hear a clunk, watch the ammeter peg 0, game over.
However, the main problem is that under controlled conditions, I've only
been able to duplicate this problem twice now, out of many many attempts
to make it happen again. It is a very very infrequently happening issue.
I plan to do more testing on Sunday...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sure, they bought Corbins assets from the bankruptcy.
They seem to be doing serious work on making the Sparrow idea
functional. They've done, and are doing, some re-design on the birds.
Current owners can get parts (if available) from them, and they do seem to
be planning on selling some variation of Sparrows again.
At 12:10 PM 5/6/2005, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Does anyone knows what this company is and what is it
doing to the sparrows other than praying (this last
activity is just emphasized too much)?
http://www.myersmotors.com/
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Okay, I watched and timed a complete charging cycle this evening, as my
PFC-30 charger still seems to be shutting off too soon. I was charging
from a 240-Volt, 30-Amp outlet. My pack was pretty low as I drove about
14 miles (I know, I know, very lame range). Here's what I noticed:
4:30pm Start charging - Constant Current
(never really gets above ~29 output amps due to thermal limit)
5:45pm Switches to Constant Voltage, timer phase 1
(blue LED blinking slow, ~29 Amps still going into pack)
6:08pm Constant Voltage, timer phase 2
(blue LED blinking faster, ~14 Amps still going into pack)
6:17pm Constant Voltage, timer phase 3
(blue LED blinking fastest, ~6 Amps still going into pack)
6:23pm ~6 Amps still going into the pack, and the timer times-out
(blue LED lit solid, charger shuts off).
First of all, I thought that the constant voltage "finishing" stage is
usually supposed to take longer than the bulk charging, to ensure that
the battery current tapers off correctly. This bulk charge took 1 hour
15 minutes while the constant voltage finish charge took only 38
minutes... sounds way to short to me. As there is a likely chance that
my batteries are sulfated(?), would that result in the really quick
current tapering that I'm seeing?
Also, _unlike_ before, I actually have set my PFC-30's timer setting to
a longer time interval. The rotary switch is set to "8", which is
supposed to make the timer last 80 minutes (if I'm reading the manual
correctly)?... much longer than the 38 it did today. Because it timed
out so soon, my battery current never tapered below about 6 amps, which
I assume to be bad since they should be charged until the current drops
off to like two amps.
Thanks again for everyone's great advice,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Pekka and All,
--- pekka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
> > Hi Pekka, Cowtown and All,
>
> > Pekka, could you talk anyone in Europe into
> this
> > for your use?
>
> Yes, the Horlacher designs look good and seem to be
> of high quality and
> sound engineering. However, they are just prototypes
> and therefore
As good as they look they are probably from molds
and they show some of the molds.
But even if they are not, you can make molds
directly from the prototypes cheaply as the shape is
the expensive part and they know how to do it as
that's their business.
For that matter you can clone any car in
composites just by giving them a good wax job and
spraying on the gelcoat, resin, glass, letting it cure
and popping off a production mold easily. The nice
thing about this is you have a ready made source of
windshields, doors, suspension, ect you can use if you
want!!!
I'm thinking for my next EV, a 4 seat, 4wh to do
this to a 92 Civic and add 6" to the bottom for more
room. That way the glass, doors are cheap and ready
made!! This saves much time, money!! And legal too.
> probably hand made one-offs. For the Freedom EV, you
> are making
> production molds but it is highly improbable that
> Horlacher would have
I wouldn't bet on that.
> done so. And, their partners are mostly energy
> departments and other
> well financed entities - not for the poor individual
> is my guess.
You could buy the design or clone it and have it
built by a boatbuilder to your specs. The economy is
about to bite the big one again both here and in
Europe so could be a good time to do it when companies
are hungry. The countries, states, might even back you
to make jobs.
>
> Much to my disappontment I noticed that the
> EVproduction group is no
> longer readable to guests. I understand this all too
> well but it would
> be very interesting to see how the car will look
A lot of more sensitive info needed to be
presented and cut out the talkers so just the doers
were left so we could get down to business.
Otherwise as you read, noticed, that we would have
just talked it to death rather than get down to doing
the work like is being done now.
And it seems to have worked as we are now financed
to the end of the first stage, getting the tooling
done and some of the first body paid for already ;-))
> like. Well, reading the
> first 500 or something posts took too much time
> anyway... :-)
That's why we had to limit it!!! Too many posts.
By charging dues we seperated the wheat from the chaff
even at the $25 level, most quit. But the rest mostly
put in much more each getting it off to a good start!!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Pekka
>
>
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod Hower,
Can you talk about the EV they(you?) are working on?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich Rudman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Stuffing the best Valence into a Prius, then connecting up
> the PFC20... and they may be using a PFC20.....
While this is certainly a possibility, the EDrive PHEV Prius presently
uses an onboard Delta-Q charger.
"Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 2. Who are: a. Energy Control Systems Engineering
> > b. Clean-Tech LLC
> > c. Valence Technology ( sounds vaguely familiar...)
Clean-Tech LLC <http://www.clean-tech.com/> is an LA-based automotive
systems integrator.
EnergyCS <http://www.energycs.com> is a CA-based consulting engineering
firm that specialises in battery/fuel cell management, etc. I've been
involved with some charge algorithm development with them and can say
with confidence that they are real and know what they are doing.
Valence <http://www.valence.com/> is a manufacturer of Saphion LiIon
batteries. The peak current capability is a bit low for modest on-road
EV system voltages, but their batteries include a built-in BMS and they
offer 12V nominal monoblocks
<http://www.valence.com/pdffiles/U-Charge_Datasheet.pdf> that fit right
in place of standard 12V batteries (U1, group 24, and group 27). The
group 24 (U24-12FN100) model is almost an exact physical substitute for
an Optima YT and offers 100Ah in a <30lb package. As with all LiIon at
this point initial cost is a hurdle, however, it seems that various OEMs
are looking at using the Valence product and this volume in addition to
moving to offshore production facilities offers the promise of dramatic
price reductions within the next year. They still won't be cheap, but
they'll be a very real alternative to lead acid.
EDrive LLC <http://www.edrivesystems.com/> is a joint venture between
Clean-Tech and EnergyCS and is the entity that actually builds the PHEV
Prius.
> > Is it all vapor ware, made out of "un-obtainium" or ...
> ARE they on the BRINK of T H E N E X T B I G T H I N G
The batteries are real and available today. There are at least two of
the PHEV Priuses already on the road. One was at EVS21 in Monaco. More
are planned.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
David Dymaxion wrote:
I used to have a Jeep Cherokee. It seemed it would really scoot in
1st and 2nd, but not so much in 3rd and higher. Wind resistance may
be starting to play a role.
The reason why I don't think it is caused by wind resistance is because
the transition in speed isn't very large. What I mean is this: I'll be
driving along in 2nd gear at 55 miles per hour (motor speed close to
5000RPM). At this speed I'm pulling say 150 battery amps to keep the
Jeep at this speed on flat road. I then up shift to 3rd so I can go
faster. Okay, now I'm going about 60-65 miles per hour in 3rd gear
(motor speed unknown), and I'm basically having to floor it to maintain
this speed, even on flat road. Of course, My ammeter is now pegged at
400 amps (if my batteries haven't already started sagging too low and
the Zilla isn't cutting back). Note that the figures above are from
memory, so perfect accuracy is not guaranteed.
This has been my experience with highway driving thus far, which is why
I haven't been driving my Jeep above 50 mph -- until I can bring the
current draws down (for fear of burning up my motor or something from
sustained high currents).
So a test you could do is to jack up the drive wheels, and see how
much current it takes to turn the wheels in each gear. If 3rd is much
higher you've proved the problem. I'm not sure this is the case in
the Jeep, but 4th is direct in many cars, so you hopefully see less
current draw in that gear.
I'll have to try this again. Yes, 4th gear is direct in Jeep Cherokees.
However, I was thinking that the main problem here is bad bearing(s) or
something that would effect all the gears, the 3rd gear thing being
either an amplified result or an unrelated problem.
If you find 4th is measurably more efficient, you might want to put
in lower (higher numerically) gearing in the differential(s).
My experience with 4th gear in this vehicle so far has been that it is
almost unusable (though, I'll try it again as I haven't tried using it
recently.)
Oh, and I made a point of feeling the underside of my transmission and
transfer case after driving this morning. After just a short 5 mile
drive, my transfer case was warm to the touch and my transmission was
almost too hot to touch. My transmission currently has 75W90 gear oil in
it now (as per spec.). I've been wanting to replace it with synthetic
oil (like I did in my axles), but it has a small perpetual oil leak
which I'm afraid would turn into a large leak if I use a thinner
synthetic fluid. :-/
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm just doing some side work at this time, like EVCL
boxes (just a dumb digital box that looks at a few
inputs and allows the control to start up). I
installed the first Zilla 1K in one of their birds
(which is still in the shop). Note: other users
installed Zilla's before me, I just did the first one
under contract for MM.
I would also say I was a good salesman for Otmar's
stuff!
I do have a Cafe-electric shirt compliments of the
acceleration test on this list!
Many Zilla's are being installed in Sparrows now,
hopefully more.
As far as their future projects I will not comment.
I've seen some prototypes in the shop and they're
pretty cool. Hopefully they will be successful.
Rod
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Rod Hower,
>
> Can you talk about the EV they(you?) are working on?
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Too hot to touch in 5 minutes is way too fast to that up that much oil
and metal in a transmission.
Seth
On May 6, 2005, at 9:47 PM, Nick Viera wrote:
Hi,
David Dymaxion wrote:
I used to have a Jeep Cherokee. It seemed it would really scoot in
1st and 2nd, but not so much in 3rd and higher. Wind resistance may
be starting to play a role.
The reason why I don't think it is caused by wind resistance is because
the transition in speed isn't very large. What I mean is this: I'll be
driving along in 2nd gear at 55 miles per hour (motor speed close to
5000RPM). At this speed I'm pulling say 150 battery amps to keep the
Jeep at this speed on flat road. I then up shift to 3rd so I can go
faster. Okay, now I'm going about 60-65 miles per hour in 3rd gear
(motor speed unknown), and I'm basically having to floor it to maintain
this speed, even on flat road. Of course, My ammeter is now pegged at
400 amps (if my batteries haven't already started sagging too low and
the Zilla isn't cutting back). Note that the figures above are from
memory, so perfect accuracy is not guaranteed.
This has been my experience with highway driving thus far, which is why
I haven't been driving my Jeep above 50 mph -- until I can bring the
current draws down (for fear of burning up my motor or something from
sustained high currents).
So a test you could do is to jack up the drive wheels, and see how
much current it takes to turn the wheels in each gear. If 3rd is much
higher you've proved the problem. I'm not sure this is the case in
the Jeep, but 4th is direct in many cars, so you hopefully see less
current draw in that gear.
I'll have to try this again. Yes, 4th gear is direct in Jeep Cherokees.
However, I was thinking that the main problem here is bad bearing(s) or
something that would effect all the gears, the 3rd gear thing being
either an amplified result or an unrelated problem.
If you find 4th is measurably more efficient, you might want to put
in lower (higher numerically) gearing in the differential(s).
My experience with 4th gear in this vehicle so far has been that it is
almost unusable (though, I'll try it again as I haven't tried using it
recently.)
Oh, and I made a point of feeling the underside of my transmission and
transfer case after driving this morning. After just a short 5 mile
drive, my transfer case was warm to the touch and my transmission was
almost too hot to touch. My transmission currently has 75W90 gear oil
in
it now (as per spec.). I've been wanting to replace it with synthetic
oil (like I did in my axles), but it has a small perpetual oil leak
which I'm afraid would turn into a large leak if I use a thinner
synthetic fluid. :-/
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What about using the guts of salvaged UPS units as smart modular
> chargers?
Possible; however...
- The battery chargers in most UPS are pretty crude. They often charge
forever, and have poor or no temperature compensation, and do not
adjust for the type, age, or condition of the battery. As a result,
they usually murder their battery rather soon.
- The 12v battery is sometimes NOT ISOLATED from the AC power line!
Thus it can't be used to charge a battery that is connected to
other equipment. (I destroyed an E-meter and PC serial port to
learn this :-(
> The electronics recycling businesses around here are scrapping
> plenty of UPS units with bad batteries.
The fact that they have bad batteries is a hint that they don't do a
very good job. With proper charging, a battery can easily last 10 years
or more. With el-cheapo charging, it will be shot in a year or two.
--
"The two most common elements in the universe
are hydrogen and stupidity." -- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
