EV Digest 4372
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: TdS Report #48: Photos - The Lorax
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EVLN(Maya 100 EV to Sell in Norway)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) EVLN(Korea's first electric car, available March 2006)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) EVLN(Toyota investigating Prius stalling, USA made hybrids)
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Cable crimping
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: AC Motor Suppliers
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: AC Motor Suppliers
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Are these TDS Calculations RIGHT ???
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) MIMA (Manual IMA) is a reality !!! ( Gen Applications!? )
by Lightning Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EVLN(Korea's first electric car, available March 2006)
by "David Roden (Akron OH USA)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: AC Motor Suppliers
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) TZero Sighting
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Re: Madman & Plasma Boy do Earth Day
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Madman & Plasma Boy do Earth Day
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Madman & Plasma Boy do Earth Day
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Hybrid kit?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
18) Re: Hybrid kit?
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) forklift controller...what is it good for?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
by "darren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: DC-DC Converters
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Tango Performance
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: forklift controller...what is it good for?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Where is the best buy on ADC motors?
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Are these TDS Calculations RIGHT ???
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) 2005 Power of DC June 11th
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 2005 Power of DC June 11th
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
30) Re: Fwd: Re: EV Transmissions
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) TdS Report #50: Final Press Release for the Monte Carlo-Style Rally
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
I really like how it looks that they stuck out the motors like a flat
twin (like a BWM motorcycle motor).
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> TdS Report #48: Photos - The Lorax
>
> Photographs from the Tour de Sol:
> http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005/photos_010.html
>
>
> The Lorax
>
> <PRE>
> Vehicle Name: The Lorax
> Vehicle Number: 45
> Team Name: Methacton Electric Car Club
> State: Pennsylvania
> Electric: 1999 "Lomax" kit car conversion, (Battery: Eagle-Pricher
> PbA)
> </PRE>
>
> The Methacton Electric Car Club is made up of males and females
> ranging from 9th to 12th grades. Our mission is to explore
> alternative
> energy resources one car at a time while providing hands-on
> learning
> about alternate power sources for science, engineering, and trade
> students and the general public. In addition to building a vehicle
> the
> team created computer generated fundraising materials, and
> community
> outreach.
>
> Open wide and say "ahhhhhhh".
>
> The roll bar and the flashing light that sits above it are new this
> year.
>
> A view from the other side, with the rain cover on.
>
> - - - -
> The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
> http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
> The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
> http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
> - - - -
> The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
> Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is
> presented
> without modification and this notice remains attached.
> For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
> - - - -
> For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
> http://www.TourdeSol.org
> - - - -
> Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the
> sponsor,
> the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
> 413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
>
> Jack Groh
> Tour de Sol Communications Director
> P.O. Box 6044
> Warwick, RI 02887-6044
>
> 401 732-1551
> 401 732-0547 fax
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Maya 100 EV to Sell in Norway)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2005/05/maya_100_ev_to_.html
May 19, 2005 Maya 100 EV to Sell in Norway
Electrovaya, a Canadian firm specializing in portable power
systems and Tablet PCs, has signed a Memorandum of Understanding
with Miljobil Grenland AS of Norway to market its Maya 100
electric vehicle and to promote the business of zero-emission
electric vehicle technologies in Norway and neighboring
countries.
Miljobil also issued an initial purchase order to Electrovaya, to
support activities needed to showcase Electrovaya�s technology in
Norway.
The Maya 100 ran in the 2004 Tour de Sol and won awards for Best
Battery Electric Vehicle and the Technology Award. (A video of
the Maya 100 in the 2004 event is available here.[
http://www.electrovaya.com/av/ZEV_video.mpg ])
The Maya 100 uses a 40 kWh, 144V Electrovaya lithium ion
superpolymer battery system that delivers a driving range of up
to 230 miles (360 km) with a top speed of 80 mph (140 km/h). The
batteries in the Maya are 100 Amp-hour modules purpose-built for
electric vehicles only, and are designed to offer a 7-year
calendar life with a cycle-life equivalent to 150,000 kilometers
(93,225 miles) of operation.
On a 220V charger charging time is approximately 6-8 hours
(overnight, off-peak charging). There is a 110V capability for
opportunity charging. A rapid-charge option could be retrofit.
Liion super polymer chart [image]
Electrovaya�s Li-ion superpolymer batteries presently offer an
energy density of approximately 225 Wh/kg and 475 Wh/liter. The
company has a research program underway to increase the cell
energy density to beyond 330 Wh/kg and 650Wh/liter.
The Li-ion superpolymer batteries use a phosphate-based compound
for the cathode, and a graphite/polymer anode. (Electrovaya uses
a cobalt-based cathode for its mobile computing applications.)
The company is targeting a cost of $270-300/kWh for the battery
at moderate levels of production.
Electrovaya has developed its own system to handle surge power
requirements in acceleration and hill climbing and associated
battery issues such as thermal management, cycle life degradation
and over-discharge.
The company has also developed a proprietary regenerative DC
axial brush system motor with permanent magnets. The compact
motor has an efficiency of 90%�95%, turbofan cooling, and a
voltage of 120-150 V. Continuous power is 25 kW, maximum power is
42 kW. The peak torque is 200 Nm (148 lb-ft).
Pricing in the Miljobil deal is still confidential, but the
current early adopter price in North America is US$70,000 for the
entire vehicle, batteries and onboard charger.
Miljobil Grenland AS, a professional fleet operator and marketer
of Clean Zero Emission vehicles since 1997, is owned principally
by Skagerak Energi, the regional utility company; Norsk Hydro, a
$25 billion leading European oil, energy and light metal company
with operations in 40 countries; and Bellona, a major
environmental foundation.
Resources: EVS21 paper: A Long Range, Ultra-Safe, Low Cost
Electric Vehicle
http://bioage.typepad.com/greencarcongress/docs/Electrovaya%20EVS21%20Paper.pdf
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Korea's first electric car, available March 2006)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200505/18/200505182238171109900090609062.html
Korea's first electric car to meet public
May 19, 2005 ? The first Korean automobile to run solely on
electricity will make its debut here on May 25.
Jeon Hyung-min, president of GEO EV, said his company's electric
automobile is in the final stage of testing and will be
commercially available starting in March 2006.
"We plan to produce 1,000 units a year and increase production to
an annual 7,000 units in 2007," Mr. Jeon said.
GEO EV first started developing the no-emissions car last year
with 500 million won in capital.
The automobile, which uses a lithium ion battery, can run 250
kilometers (155 miles) after a three-hour charge on 220-volt
electricity, he said.
Assuming the owner drives an average of 15,500 kilometers a year,
annual fuel costs would be 50,000 won ($50), compared to the 1.3
million won spent on fuel when driving GM Daewoo's smallest
compact vehicle, Matiz, which is the same size as GEO EV's car.
The electric car weighs 500 kilograms (1,102 pounds), which is 60
percent of the weight of Matiz.
The GEO EV's body is based on an import of a compact vehicle
developed by the French company Micro Car France.
The electric car will be able to go as fast as 120 kilometers per
hour and is expected to retail at 25 million won, GEO EV said.
The automaker has big plans for the car.
"As the importance of the environment grows, we decided to focus
more on the overseas market than the domestic market," Mr. Jeon
said.
by Kim Tae-jin, Lee Ho-jeong <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
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--- Begin Message ---
EVLN(Toyota investigating Prius stalling, USA made hybrids)
[The Internet Electric Vehicle List News. For Public EV
informational purposes. Contact publication for reprint rights.]
--- {EVangel}
http://www.wbir.com/news/news.aspx?storyid=25705
Toyota investigates possible problems with hybrid car
Problems with the Prius?
Toyota is investigating complaints that its hit American hybrid
car has been stalling on drivers, but it says there's been no
recall and the government hasn't opened an official
investigation.
The automaker just learned of the problem late last week.
More than 88,000 2004 and 2005 Prius cars have been sold in the
U.S. They deliver good mileage by switching between a gasoline
engine and an electric motor.
The Wall Street Journal reported yesterday that Toyota plans to
start producing hybrids in the U.S.
Copyright 2005 Associated Press Cackie Roberts , Producer Last
updated: 5/17/2005 7:10:17 AM
-
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
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. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
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--- Begin Message ---
On 5/19/05, Stu and Jan wrote:
> Is it possible to solder instead of crimping?
This page has some info on soldering:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/tools.shtml
I'd just use one of those hammer style crimpers like in the picture.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth wrote:
> There are two low voltage AC motor builders that I know of.
> I think they are OEM friendly, not sure if they are ready for an
> assault from the EVDL, if you get what I am saying...
What about the inverter situation?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Curtis Instruments up to 80V. Solectria for 144-336V nominal. Brusa for
some of those intermediate voltages. I haven't heard Victor suggest his
Siemens stuff for less than 240V, but I am not sure.
But AC motors and controls aren't mix 'n match like series wound.
Seth
On May 19, 2005, at 8:07 PM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Seth wrote:
There are two low voltage AC motor builders that I know of.
I think they are OEM friendly, not sure if they are ready for an
assault from the EVDL, if you get what I am saying...
What about the inverter situation?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Where I am in NY, for 50% hydro and 50% wind my power costs 13.5c/kwh
delivered to me, and gas is hovering around
> $2.30, (but I have to go get it).
>
> So at this moment a gallon is worth about 17kwh, where it really counts, i.e
in my checkbook..
>
> So if I had an EV getting 2mpkwh. it would be equivalent to .. 34 mpg.
Realize however that an EV that gets 2mpkwh is
> more than likely an S-10 type vehicle and 34 mpg is outstanding. However, this
figure does not include the
> amortization of battery, which IS part (half or more depending on chemistry)
of an EV's fuel cost. So now I'm about
> equal to gas in cost, but much much cleaner.
>
Total energy content of a gallon of gasoline is about 34kwh, so a gallon "worth
17kwh" equates to 50% engine/tranny efficiency! With a typical of 25%
conversion efficiency, the average gallon of gasoline releases about 8.5kwh "to
the road", so 2mi/kwh works out to 17mph (but a vehicle that uses 500whrs/mi is
closer to an Econoline van than an S-10!) What about comparing a CNG conversion
to the expenses of an EV?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I for one, and many others I'm sure, have been dreaming of Manual IMA
control in their Insight and other Honda Hybrids! Well some guys over
at insightcentral have explored the IMA signalling and implamented MIMA!
http://www.insightcentral.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2471&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
This is an outstanding development and I though that some of you would
be equally thrilled about this development! Currently they have manual
control of IMA Assist and Regen via an analog joystick along with temp
and current monitoring to help maintain system sanity.
This is so sweat!
But I'de like to take it even further!
With this type of control it seems to me that the Honda Hybrids
could now be used as mobil 10-13kW generator stations!
I've posed this question to the team who developed the MIMA and
am awaiting their response. In the mean time I'de like to hear
your comments as to various practical applications of MIMA GEN sets.
Rich, How would your PFC's handle running off of a 144vdc source?
I know that John Wayland has already tapped his 144vdc pack with
a secondary DC/DC converter for his audio system in sniffer.
I'm giddie like a school girl at the potential of converting my
Insight into a Track Side 10kW charging system for BEV charging!!!
L8r
Ryan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 19 May 2005 at 16:49, bruce parmenter wrote:
> The electric car will be able to go as fast as 120 kilometers per
> hour and is expected to retail at 25 million won, GEO EV said.
That's about US$25,000 - quite a lot for a small car. (A few years ago, before
the dollar weakened, it would have been more like $20k - not much better.)
For comparison, last time I checked a few years ago, most ICE minicars in
Korea cost between 7 and 10 million won. I really hope they succeed, but I
really think this one will be a tough car to sell, in Korea or overseas, unless
they can somehow cut the price by at least half.
> GEO EV first started developing the no-emissions car last year
> with 500 million won in capital.
My goodness. Imagine trying to develop a car in the US for $500,000! I
suspect that somebody dropped a couple of zeroes here.
I'll probably be in Korea for a couple of weeks next spring, so if they
actually
get it into production by then, I'll try to look them up. Maybe I can tuck one
into my overnight bag. ;-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen wrote:
> Curtis Instruments up to 80V. Solectria for 144-336V nominal. Brusa for
> some of those intermediate voltages. I haven't heard Victor suggest his
> Siemens stuff for less than 240V, but I am not sure.
How about all these big, low cost, off-the-shelf, air cooled AC motors
I see everywhere; are these viable for EV use?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So I'm with the family at a restaurant off Brookhurst in Huntington Beach, and
I'm taking my son out of the car. I look up and what do I see driving by but a
TZero.
So who was driving? Tom Gage? Tom Hanks? If you're reading this, email me.
You're welcome to charge up at my house.
Richard Kelly
--------------------------------------
Protect yourself from spam,
use http://sneakemail.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On May 19, 2005, at 7:16 AM, John Wayland wrote:
[snip]
I was was worn down
by the day's end after having to constantly remind little brats, their
fingers greasy and
dirty from all they've touched, not to lean against the car, pry open
its doors, and jump
up and down on the custom seats...all the while, their parents let
them do it without a
single word said to them. One guy asked me what I paid for the car,
and when I told him
around $20,000 five years ago, he coughed up a "Oh, that's
expensive!" Then, after his
self proclamation of how 'expensive' my car was, he watched as his
little maniacs pushed
on, leaned on, drooled on, and overall abused my car...not a word said
to them. When I
told them to look but not touch and to please not pull on the mirrors
or scratch the
paint, he acted as if I had committed the utmost sin and said, "Come
on kids, lets go."
[snip]
Hey, that kinda reminds me of the 2002 Portland EV awareness day :-)
That is the last time my buggy was at an EVent. Children's fingers
poking at the neon and even adults climbing over the sides to sit
inside. Fortunately the scuffs where slight and polished out of the 10
year old (now 13 year old) paint job.
Its all dusty, sitting in my garage now, waiting for its spring
cleaning. The range is going to suck (1/2) this year - Optimas can only
take so much charging abuse. They are over 6 years old. The floors need
welding again (or replacing.) This is not an EV problem, though the
batteries in the floor do make it worse, cracking floors boards are a
standard beach buggy problem (look at all the corner welds - about
every 3 years.) The passenger side is starting to creak. I really want
to do a floor/ battery box replacement and stuff 11 Orbitals into the
thing (max out the Curtis 1221b, move the charger under the bonnet.)
There must be some "spare time" around here somewhere!
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Paul G. wrote:
> The floors need welding again (or replacing.) I really want
> to do a floor/ battery box replacement and stuff 11 Orbitals into the
> thing (max out the Curtis 1221b, move the charger under the bonnet.)
Here's some pics for some more motivation :)
http://img288.echo.cx/img288/4193/7183630te.jpg
http://img284.echo.cx/img284/8330/7205191ia.jpg
http://img288.echo.cx/img288/105/main156ab.jpg
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lets keep in Mind that the show owner... DID ask us to bring a good sound
system, We showed up with U2 doing Vertigo, just about as Green as you can
get and still call it Rock and Roll.
We didn't even get the Insight stoped before some Middle aged Hellion
started yelling to turn it down.
Madman wanted to crank it up and then find the Show onwer.. and let the
other folks live with it for the few minutes that we did have it up.
She Was right on us so fast, that it made my stomac turn, We just were bad
Men with good cars... and well... we had to be stopped.
Again, I was ASKED to bring sound, and lots of it. I asked for CD
selections, and well nobody came forward.
So much for bringing good tunes.
I like this bunch of Earthy folks, and I like having my feet in many
camps, there are times I can be a VERY serious Eco Nerd. But... the
temptation to windup the CD and laugh at them was
very hard to repress.
John and I had a great time, we knew the drill, and fell into line, and
enjoyed the Sparkeling Spring day that was a Washout just a few minutes
before we set up.
More on the Madman and Plasma boy romp After the Eco session... Like I said
weeks ago at 6000 RPM and 700 watts of Velet Revolver, that Insight of
John's is a peppy ride.
I miss a slick 5 speed and tunes and a open road.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> Try as I might, I can't help
but imagine Madman dressed as Bugs
> Bunny/Daffy Duck-hunting Elmer Fudd at this event... ;^>
>
> Thanks, John, for your usual entertaining post which provides a
> refreshing break from the typical EVDL technical fare!
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think a Gremlin hatchback would be cool if you could find a nice one.
Would be like a life sized Citi-car but without the bad brakes and steering.
IIRC would be plenty of room for batteries ala the Jet Electrica Escort
underfloor box. Problem is most of them were junked and crushed long ago.
Think about the last time you saw a nice clean Vega or Pinto? And those were
waaay more popular than AMCs. Got me to thinking about how many Vegas I
stuffed 350s (or worse) in back in the day. What was I thinking???? DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
Curb weight of a '75 Pacer is 2995lbs; the '79 was 3133, both with an
inline 6
and an automatic tranny. I don't note the model for "good looks" (it has
its
fans) but when you see one on the road, you'd notice it more than any
electric
Metro/Corolla/Civic within a block. I don't find an El Camino or Blazer
full of
floodeds very pretty or efficient either, but there are daily drivers out
there;
that and even higher-weight cars are in the EV Album, and anyone who was a
fan
of the "Wayne's World" movies will appreciate the concept, especially of a
stretch-Pacer!
<<< Maybe it's because the Pacer is heavy and most people consider it and
the Gremlin VERY ugly designs.
I can certainly see the attraction to converting 70's era Japanese
imports thanks to the weight savings, but even those are pretty
asthetically challenged by most people's standards. As cool as White
Zombie is on the track and on the street, it doesn't jump out at people
the way sports cars do.
I say if you are going to convert some heavy American steel, at least go
with something that people can appreciate style-wise. That's why I'm
converting my 79 Corvette Stingray into an electric street rod with
custom paint, wheels, and interior in addition to the EV conversion. It
won't win any efficiency contests, and it'll probably be a dog on the
dragstrip, but it'll roast the tires at will and will be an eye-catching
electric that will inspire people where ever I drive it.
My personal conversion projects are 1/2 for my own tastes and desires,
and 1/2 to inspire others to invest in electric. Eye popping visuals
attract so much more positive attention than an electric Pacer or
Gremlin would solicit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that an electric
Pacer conversion would likely reinforce the old stereotypes that
electrics are weird, ugly, and slow in most people's eyes. >>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any guess what this item includes? There's nothing but the title in the
description body:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4551426025
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That has to be the funniest Ebay auction I've seen in a long time.
I should put up an auction.
Title: EV
Opening Price: $13,000
Body: <h8>Really good EV for sale</h8>
:)
On Thu, May 19, 2005 at 10:58:09PM -0700, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Any guess what this item includes? There's nothing but the title in the
> description body:
>
> http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4551426025
pgpsrBWPVstFA.pgp
Description: PGP signature
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Any idea what you could use this controller for?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7516776968
I like the statement "ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE BIDDERS SHOULD BID ON THIS ITEM"!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<< I think a Gremlin hatchback would be cool if you could find a nice one.
Would be like a life sized Citi-car but without the bad brakes and steering.
IIRC would be plenty of room for batteries ala the Jet Electrica Escort
underfloor box. Problem is most of them were junked and crushed long ago....>>>
Not what you'd consider "classic designs" or collectible in their day...
<<< Think about the last time you saw a nice clean Vega or Pinto? And those were
waaay more popular than AMCs. Got me to thinking about how many Vegas I
stuffed 350s (or worse) in back in the day. What was I thinking???? DC. >>>
What ciould you do, you were a naughty ICE driver with a bad gasoline habit!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ok how many vegas did you v8 realy?
1 or 2, lol
Thank You
................................
www.12voltguy.com
SeaBass44/~Darren
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 10:34 PM
Subject: Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
I think a Gremlin hatchback would be cool if you could find a nice one.
Would be like a life sized Citi-car but without the bad brakes and
steering. IIRC would be plenty of room for batteries ala the Jet Electrica
Escort underfloor box. Problem is most of them were junked and crushed long
ago. Think about the last time you saw a nice clean Vega or Pinto? And
those were waaay more popular than AMCs. Got me to thinking about how many
Vegas I stuffed 350s (or worse) in back in the day. What was I thinking????
DC.
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 6:59 AM
Subject: Re: Where are all the electric Pacers?
Curb weight of a '75 Pacer is 2995lbs; the '79 was 3133, both with an
inline 6
and an automatic tranny. I don't note the model for "good looks" (it has
its
fans) but when you see one on the road, you'd notice it more than any
electric
Metro/Corolla/Civic within a block. I don't find an El Camino or Blazer
full of
floodeds very pretty or efficient either, but there are daily drivers out
there;
that and even higher-weight cars are in the EV Album, and anyone who was
a fan
of the "Wayne's World" movies will appreciate the concept, especially of
a
stretch-Pacer!
<<< Maybe it's because the Pacer is heavy and most people consider it and
the Gremlin VERY ugly designs.
I can certainly see the attraction to converting 70's era Japanese
imports thanks to the weight savings, but even those are pretty
asthetically challenged by most people's standards. As cool as White
Zombie is on the track and on the street, it doesn't jump out at people
the way sports cars do.
I say if you are going to convert some heavy American steel, at least go
with something that people can appreciate style-wise. That's why I'm
converting my 79 Corvette Stingray into an electric street rod with
custom paint, wheels, and interior in addition to the EV conversion. It
won't win any efficiency contests, and it'll probably be a dog on the
dragstrip, but it'll roast the tires at will and will be an eye-catching
electric that will inspire people where ever I drive it.
My personal conversion projects are 1/2 for my own tastes and desires,
and 1/2 to inspire others to invest in electric. Eye popping visuals
attract so much more positive attention than an electric Pacer or
Gremlin would solicit. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that an electric
Pacer conversion would likely reinforce the old stereotypes that
electrics are weird, ugly, and slow in most people's eyes. >>>
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Lots of great discussion here about the difficulty in finding a great
wide voltage range DC-DC at a low price.
On a side note, I seem to remember that the Kepco RKW unit goes into
current limit for 30 seconds or so before it shuts down completely.
This is the note:
(2) The current limit is rectangular. If overcurrent persists for
more than 30 seconds, the output shuts down. Reset by resetting the
RC terminals.
It seemed quite good and cheap otherwise.
One option would be to take any one of these switchers and add a
external circuit to cut back the voltage setpoint when the current
goes too high. Not a simple thing to do, but not terribly difficult
either. Or reverse engineer the output section and add the features
you want internally.
Designing a nice EV DC-DC is on my to-do list, but unfortunately I
haven't had the time or the energy to get beyond the transformer
samples sitting on my desk. Too many Zillas to build.... not that I'm
complaining.
Otherwise, you can always run a Nippondensu, Hitachi, Delco etc.
mechanically linked converter. Belt the original alternator to the
motor and you are done. It's not expensive, but takes some work.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron wrote:
> I am wondering about the performance specs advertised for the Tango
> from Commutercars... Has a **stock** Tango actually performed to
> these numbers?
The Tango is a developmental prototype, and has been in almost
continuous development. The vehicle weight, tires, type and number of
batteries, etc. keeps changing.
I didn't time it, but when I drove the Tango prototype a couple years
ago, it was easily the fastest-accellerating car I have *ever* been in!
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I have a box full of those in the basement!
It's not really good for anything unless you have a
bad control card for a GE pump motor control on a 36V
forklift.
Rod
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Any idea what you could use this controller for?
>
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7516776968
>
> I like the statement "ONLY KNOWLEDGEABLE BIDDERS
> SHOULD BID ON THIS ITEM"!
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
I have been looking around for the best pricing on an ADC 9" Dual shaft motor
for my Saab 900 conversion. One of the websites I looked at appears to not have
been upgraded for a year and everything there is old.
The price on the motors appears to be "fixed" more or less between $1350-1450
and there isn't much competition. ADC, of course won't sell directly to anyone.
SO, my question is who is reasonable both on the price, the shipping cost, the
delivery time, etc.?
I have a problem dealing with anyone that can't upgrade their webite in a year
and appears to have their business for sale!
HELP!
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But I was comparing cost, not energy content.
I also seem to recall throughout the years that most of the S-10 conversions on
the list posted an at the outlet
consumption of 400-500wh per mile.
I can't get CNG, so I can't comment on cost. However, the Centro Bus system in
the city of Syracuse is 100% CNG fueled
and they are not looking back. So CNG may indeed be cheaper. I do know that
based on current Energy mix in the US, CNG
is the CLEANEST automotive fuel widely available. Notice I said the *US* mix,
not *my* mix of 50-50 hydro-wind.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, May 19, 2005 8:41 PM
> To: EV Discussion List
> Subject: Re: Are these TDS Calculations RIGHT ???
>
>> Where I am in NY, for 50% hydro and 50% wind my power costs 13.5c/kwh
> delivered to me, and gas is hovering around
>> $2.30, (but I have to go get it).
>>
>> So at this moment a gallon is worth about 17kwh, where it really
>> counts, i.e
> in my checkbook..
>>
>> So if I had an EV getting 2mpkwh. it would be equivalent to .. 34 mpg.
> Realize however that an EV that gets 2mpkwh is
>> more than likely an S-10 type vehicle and 34 mpg is outstanding.
>> However, this
> figure does not include the
>> amortization of battery, which IS part (half or more depending on
>> chemistry)
> of an EV's fuel cost. So now I'm about
>> equal to gas in cost, but much much cleaner.
>>
>
> Total energy content of a gallon of gasoline is about 34kwh, so a gallon
> "worth 17kwh" equates to 50% engine/tranny efficiency! With a typical of 25%
> conversion efficiency, the average gallon of gasoline releases about 8.5kwh
> "to the road", so 2mi/kwh works out to 17mph (but a vehicle that uses
> 500whrs/mi is closer to an Econoline van than an S-10!) What about comparing
> a CNG conversion to the expenses of an EV?
>
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Hey all you East of the Ole Miss drag racin' fans.
I am planning on attending the 2005 Power of DC event on June 11 at Mason Dixon
Dragway in Hagerstown, Maryland.
I have a work in progress that I am planning to bring and had a thought...
This is a JR Dragster the will be piloted by my ten yr old son, Cody.
I am powering it with an Elec-trak E-15 drive motor, a Curtis 1244 Sep-ex
controller and 72v worth of 13ah Hawkers.
It has yet to run under it's own power In fact, if I want to run it in Maryland
I will probably have to pull a few
Wayland style all-nighters. My thought was ... how cool would it be if I just
brought all the parts with me, and WE,
the EV'rs could collectively attempt a one day, build, de-bug, test, and run.
Now, I would really like to show up at the track with the car already to go,
already having been tested at my local
track and already tweaked. But I think it would also be cool if EVERYONE had a
hand in building it, even if it doesn't
make it down the track, I think it would be a great experience.
Does anybody planning on going to Watt Wheels, want me to bring the puzzle, or
should I put it together at home.
Anyone who wrenches on it will be welcome to drive it(or their kids), if they
can fit in it. I can't fit(dammit).
On another note. Cody thinks he would rather have a thumb throttle, than a foot
pedal. Any thoughts on this. Bill,
would a thumb throttle violate any rules?
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have been looking around for the best pricing on an ADC 9" Dual shaft motor
for my Saab 900 conversion. One of the websites I looked at appears to not have been
upgraded for a year and everything there is old.
The price on the motors appears to be "fixed" more or less between $1350-1450
and there isn't much competition. ADC, of course won't sell directly to anyone.
SO, my question is who is reasonable both on the price, the shipping cost, the
delivery time, etc.?
I have a problem dealing with anyone that can't upgrade their webite in a year
and appears to have their business for sale!
Ken at KTA Services is a pretty good guy to do business with. He is a
phone/catalog person who never really got going on the web thing. I'm
sure somebody (maybe a friends kid) setup the website before going to
college and now he has no one to update it.
You'll find a lot of the EV suppliers are not very web saavy. (Kinda a
shame since their customers tend to be highly technical, and therefore
internet oriented.) Ken is trying to sell the business and retire, but
since you won't be relying on him for long term warrenty support (the
ADC typically has a 1 year warrenty, and I've never heard of someone
needing/claiming it) that is not a big deal. And the business has been
for sale for over a year now.
EVparts.com has a little better website, but it is starting to get out
of date. There have been some mutterings that support/inventory for
conversions is falling as they concentrate on the more lucrative scootor
and golf cart market..
ElectricAuto.com (Electro Automotive) is another option, last I checked
their website too was out of date, but they have been in business for
awhile and will probably get you anything you need if you call.
Those are the major vendors... there are a few "second generation" EV
shops starting up, but getting a sales agreement with ADC is so hard I
suspect most of the other guys are reselling.
Mark Farver
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Hey Tim,
I think that's agreat idea I'll be there if you need an extra pair of hands.
Are you thinking of driving down Thursday and working on it Friday or early
Saturday morning? I definitely won't fit if you don't.
James
Quoting Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
My thought was ... how cool would it be if I just brought all the
parts with me, and WE,
the EV'rs could collectively attempt a one day, build, de-bug, test, and run.
...if they can fit in it. I can't fit(dammit).
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left
untreated, it develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 5/19/05, Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jerry, ZF make a 2-speed, solenoid operated gearbox for machine
> tools. Might be useful, might not..
>
> http://www.daviesmarketing.com/full_release.asp?compnameid=44&releaseid=506
I asked for more data. There are several versions of the gearbox,
with sizes from "car size" up to "enormous".
Example data of the smallest unit:
2k120, input torque 140NM max, 8000RPM, weighs 30kG, ratios available
1.00 and 3.16/4.0/4.91, switches using a 24V, 120W solenoid.
Next biggest:
2k250, input torque 400NM max, 6300RPM, weighs 62KG, ratios available
1.00 and 3.17/4.0/5.5, switches using a 24V, 120W solenoid.
The ratios are a bit far apart, and the units are pretty heavy, but it
might work for some application I suppose.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
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--- Begin Message ---
TdS Report #50: Final Press Release for the Monte Carlo-Style Rally
National 2005 Tour de Sol Revises Results
Of Monte Carlo-Style Rally
Modified Hybrid Vehicle Nears 100 MPG Barrier
In National 2005 Tour de Sol
FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Contact: Nancy Hazard [EMAIL PROTECTED] 413-774-6051 x18
James Dunn [EMAIL PROTECTED] 508-870-0042 x108
Greenfield, MA -- May 16, 2005 -- Due to fuel measuring inaccuracies, the
National 2005 Tour de Sol has issued revised results of the Monte Carlo-style
Rally competition, held May 13-16 in Saratoga Springs and Albany, NY. The top
placing vehicle, a modified hybrid Honda Insight driven by Brian Hardegen of
Pepperell, MA, neared the 100-mile-per-gallon barrier over a 150-mile range in
the National 2005 Tour de Sol. His vehicle demonstrated 94 mpg, which leaves
the 100-mpg Challenge on the table for next year's event.
In the production vehicle division (i.e. unmodified vehicles), the top hybrid-
vehicle winners include a Honda Insight driven by Charles Sullivan of Hanover,
NH, which averaged 81 miles per gallon, and a second Hybrid Insight driven by
Mike Lewis of Portland, ME, which averaged 79 MPG. They achieved the best
results for production vehicles in the Monte Carlo-style Rally, which required
participants to drive their vehicles at least 150 miles during the competition.
While Sullivan got slightly more miles per gallon than Lewis, the difference
was too small to determine precisely.
The top finishers in the biodiesel category of the Monte Carlo-style Rally were
a Volkswagen Passat driven by David Glynn of Westboro, MA, and Karl Roenig of
Clifton Park, NY, which averaged 77 MPG, and a Mercedes SMART car driven by
Hugo Marsolais of Saint-Jerome, Quebec, which averaged 75 MPG. While Glynn and
Roenig achieved a bit more miles per gallon than Marsolais, the refueling
process was too inaccurate to gauge exactly.
The most interesting overall vehicle was the novel ``plug-in'' hybrid
demonstrated by Valence Technology as well as Energy Control Systems
Engineering Inc. (doing business as EnergyCS LLC) in Monrovia, CA. This is a
modified Toyota Prius with a much larger battery pack than the normal Prius,
and charged with external grid power. On a 150-mile run, this vehicle achieved
nearly 102 MPG on the gasoline used, but also utilized 10 kilowatt-hours of
electricity required to charge the special lithium-ion batteries. When
computing the total energy used, including the grid power, the net effective
mileage was only 67 MPG, which is still highly commendable. Although this
vehicle would be relatively expensive to buy, if available today, due to extra
battery cost, plug-in hybrids may become a viable future technology.
This year, 41 teams entered the new Monte Carlo-style Rally. This competition
was created to offer advanced-vehicle owners the opportunity to demonstrate
what their vehicles (production-line or modified) can deliver as well as to
compete for up to $10,000 in prizes.
During the National 2005 Tour de Sol -- the 17th annual sustainable-energy and
transportation festival and competition -- over 60 hybrid, electric and biofuel
vehicles from throughout the U.S. and Canada demonstrated that we have the
technology today to power our transportation system with zero-oil consumption
and zero climate-change emissions. Each vehicle showed new ways to reduce our
dependence on foreign oil while reducing harmful pollutants.
Monte Carlo-style Rally & 100 MPG Challenge
To compete for the 100 MPG Challenge, entrants began at one of the 11 official
stating sites around the U.S. and Canada and were required to drive a minimum
of 500 miles to Stewart's Shops in Saratoga Springs, NY. Unfortunately, no
entrant achieved that goal this year. Other entrants traveled a minimum of 150
miles to Saratoga Springs, for a host of other prizes. Key Monte Carlo-style
Rally organizers are the Automotive Career Development Center in Worcester, MA,
and the Center for Technology Commercialization in Westboro, MA, with Stewart's
Shops and biodiesel supplier Environmental Alternatives in Brooklyn, NY,
providing the fuel for all the entries.
E-Bike and NEV Competition
The E-bike and NEV (neighborhood electric vehicle) competition was created last
year by RunAbout Cycles in Sunderland, MA. E-bike and NEV manufacturers,
distributors, entrepreneurs, hobbyists and students are invited to participate
in this two-day event. This year, over a dozen entrants went through technical
specification checks, displayed their vehicles and participated in a range
events of one, two or three hours.
Tour de Sol & Tour de Sol Championship
Over a half million consumers have visited the Tour de Sol since its creation
in 1989 by the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association and over 40 million
print-and electronic-media exposures accrue annually from the Tour. The Tour
de Sol provides a key platform for vehicle manufacturers, students and
entrepreneurs to demonstrate future designs and current products that aim to
reduce oil and carbon emissions to zero. The event provides news media the
opportunity to provide timely and topical updates on the status of sustainable
energy and mobility. This year, over a dozen teams participated in the Tour de
Sol Championship, which began in 1989. This event aims to inspire students and
businesses to design, build, showcase and use concept vehicles that push the
envelope and work toward the ultimate goal of the Tour de Sol.
Sponsors
The New York State Energy Research and Development Authority and the Center for
Technology Commercialization (CTC) are the event's Premier Sponsors. Key
Sponsors are the U.S. Department of Energy, the New York Power Authority,
Toyota Motor Corp., the New York State Department of Environmental
Conservation, New York State Parks, American Honda Motor Co., Environmental
Alternatives and the Federal Highway Administration.
Northeast Sustainable Energy Association
The Northeast Sustainable Energy Association, the nation's leading regional
education and advocacy association, is a not-for-profit 501(c)(3) organization.
NESEA aims to accelerate the deployment and use of renewable energy and energy
efficiency by producing major sustainable-energy events that inspire and
motivate large numbers of people to get involved and make a difference.
For more information on all of the winners in the National 2005 Tour de Sol,
visit www.TourDeSol.org or contact NESEA at 413.774.6051. (results tables etc.)
NOTE TO ALL MEDIA: All National 2005 Tour de Sol results as well as photos are
available upon request.
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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