EV Digest 4376
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 2005 Power of DC June 11th
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: battery sales center
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: You need a welder (Playing the Kazoo)
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: battery sales center
by "Jeff & Diane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
by "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Where is the best buy on ADC motors?
by "Jeff & Diane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) New battery question
by "Jeff & Diane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: battery sales center
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) New conversion project, was Re: Cable crimping
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) General Radio Type W20H 220v dual variac on one shaft. What can this baby
do?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: New battery question
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: You need a welder (was: Cable crimping)
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I for one would sure like to see the netgain/warp motor car run.It has been
voted the best enginered dragster at the world of wheels show for many years.I
have read in the national dragster publication that its the quickest full size
electric dragster in the world. Come on Netgain ITS time to prove your
WARP motors. Go to the Power of Dc race.You have had YEARS to prove it.
Dennis Berube The only ev with 75+ 8 second NHRA time slips
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't feel like I have ever fully gotten the feel for how to set the
charger, and this is from the US battery recommendations rather than
Excide, but disclaimer aside:
They say charge "until the battery voltage rises to 2.583 Volts per
cell... Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop
charging... reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell for every 10�F
above 80�F, increase by the same amount for temperatures below 80�F."
It's been a while since I ahd a full set of 22 batteries in that truck,
but as I recall just sitting at rest hours after the charger shut off,
the voltage was around 143 volts or so. So the peak voltage on charge so
be more like 160-something. (??)
I think Bruce P was running a pack of 22 GC batteries in his blazer for
a while (essentially an S-10) with at least one PFC20 and/or PFC50 in
his collection... it may be in the archives somewhere how he set his up.
- Jim, who is happy to know the little red truck is back on the road!
J.R. Young wrote:
Lee,
It is set at 90... but I don't believe that's the (main) problem. It
doesn't even come close to returning all the Ah used, it returned about 8ah
vs the 30ah removed. I'm pretty sure I have the PFC-20 voltage trim set
too low. I have it set to start the shut off timer when the voltage reaches
139. Even after discharging the pack about 20% to 30%, it hits 140 volts
the second I turn on the charger. So it doesn't spend ANY time in the main
charge cycle, it just spends 90 minutes at 5 amps and less.
So I think the question is, when my PFC-20 is in the main charge cycle
(charging at 19.5 amps), what target voltage should I be aiming for to start
the shut off timer? I don't think it's 138.5 as I have it set for now, it
must be higher than that.
My pack details:
22 x 6v Exide 3600 (Sam's Club Batteries)
Thanks!
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:20 AM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
J.R. Young wrote:
My concern is that it seems like I'm taking a lot more OUT of the
batteries than I'm putting back in... Anybody have any suggestions?
What is the E-meter's CEF (Charge Efficiency Factor) set for? The
default is 90%, which means the E-meter expects you to put in an extra
10% to reach "full". Suppose it reads -100ah after a drive; if you
charge 10 hours at 10 amps = 100ah, the meter only counts 90% of this,
or 90ah; thus the E-meter still indicates -10ah. You have to put in
111ah to have the meter reach 100% and start blinking the "fully
charged" indicator.
With AGMs or gels, or with new flooded batteries, the actual CEF is
higher; so the E-meter will lead you to overcharge them unless you set
the CEF lower, or overcharge anyway so the E-meter will recalculate CEF
by itself. If you reset the E-meter manually, or don't change the CEF
manually to what it really is, the E-meter will never recalculate CEF
and the problem will continue.
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Without naming, names, I would have to agree. There are many sites that
carry the things I want but it is very difficult to find. Evcessive
subdivision of product type seems to be a common sin. But at least it
is out there for sale.
Even my former employer is guilty of a poor website. Difficult to
navigate and little information.
Seth
On May 21, 2005, at 11:49 AM, mreish wrote:
EVparts.com has a little better website, but it is starting to get
out
of date. There have been some mutterings that support/inventory for
Don't forget the Cloud brothers at cloudelectric.com - later on the
web than
WildeEvolutions/EVParts, but sometimes that means you get to see the
other
guys' mistakes and avoid them.
But sometimes not.
Pardon me for getting a rip and this is not aimed at any one retailer:
I think the state of EV/Web commerce is pretty bad. Between sites that
are hard to navigate, rarely if ever updated, difficult to order
through and just plain ugly, I'm amazed they've found the ROI to keep
them going. Am I the only one who gathers information, or tries to
actually, before placing an order by browsing catalogs weather they be
old fashioned print catalogs or online? Am I the only one who's NOT
purchased parts because the only way to do so was by an insecure form
or worse, an email link? Am I the only one who dreads getting a phone
call two days after an order is placed saying the parts are no longer
carried?
Come on guys. It's 2005 and time to get your sites out of 1995.
Mike
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea it's a Gen 1 steel box.
When we went to aluminum we dropped to a single exhaust port and added a 2
pole breaker.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 12:00 PM
Subject: Re: PFC20 Charging Questions
> My old charger, now Glenn's, has the green case, 2 fans, and the breaker
> that looks like a toggle switch. Which I thought made it a "Rev 1"
> rather than a "beta". Whatever you want to call it, it is looks like this:
> http://www.manzanitamicro.com/pfcdone.jpg
>
> (and it has a nice new breaker installed, right Glenn? :-)
>
>
> J.R. Young wrote:
> > Rich,
> >
> > I think it may be a beta charger. It's Jim Coate's old PFC20. Does
that
> > change your answer to number 2?
> >
> > Glenn
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's where I'm looking at this thing all wrong apparently. I did some
Google searches, it seems 2.583 volts per cell is the norm for most flooded
lead acid batteries. I'll up the PFC-20's voltage trim, and aim for the
higher cut off voltage.
Thanks!
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Coate" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 3:12 PM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
> I don't feel like I have ever fully gotten the feel for how to set the
> charger, and this is from the US battery recommendations rather than
> Excide, but disclaimer aside:
>
> They say charge "until the battery voltage rises to 2.583 Volts per
> cell... Hold this voltage constant for 2 to 4 hours, and stop
> charging... reduce the voltage by 0.028 Volts per Cell for every 10�F
> above 80�F, increase by the same amount for temperatures below 80�F."
>
> It's been a while since I ahd a full set of 22 batteries in that truck,
> but as I recall just sitting at rest hours after the charger shut off,
> the voltage was around 143 volts or so. So the peak voltage on charge so
> be more like 160-something. (??)
>
> I think Bruce P was running a pack of 22 GC batteries in his blazer for
> a while (essentially an S-10) with at least one PFC20 and/or PFC50 in
> his collection... it may be in the archives somewhere how he set his up.
>
> - Jim, who is happy to know the little red truck is back on the road!
>
>
> J.R. Young wrote:
> > Lee,
> >
> > It is set at 90... but I don't believe that's the (main) problem. It
> > doesn't even come close to returning all the Ah used, it returned about
8ah
> > vs the 30ah removed. I'm pretty sure I have the PFC-20 voltage trim
set
> > too low. I have it set to start the shut off timer when the voltage
reaches
> > 139. Even after discharging the pack about 20% to 30%, it hits 140
volts
> > the second I turn on the charger. So it doesn't spend ANY time in the
main
> > charge cycle, it just spends 90 minutes at 5 amps and less.
> >
> > So I think the question is, when my PFC-20 is in the main charge cycle
> > (charging at 19.5 amps), what target voltage should I be aiming for to
start
> > the shut off timer? I don't think it's 138.5 as I have it set for now,
it
> > must be higher than that.
> >
> > My pack details:
> >
> > 22 x 6v Exide 3600 (Sam's Club Batteries)
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
> >
> >
> >
> >>J.R. Young wrote:
> >>
> >>>My concern is that it seems like I'm taking a lot more OUT of the
> >>
> > batteries than I'm putting back in... Anybody have any suggestions?
> >
> >>What is the E-meter's CEF (Charge Efficiency Factor) set for? The
> >>default is 90%, which means the E-meter expects you to put in an extra
> >>10% to reach "full". Suppose it reads -100ah after a drive; if you
> >>charge 10 hours at 10 amps = 100ah, the meter only counts 90% of this,
> >>or 90ah; thus the E-meter still indicates -10ah. You have to put in
> >>111ah to have the meter reach 100% and start blinking the "fully
> >>charged" indicator.
> >>
> >>With AGMs or gels, or with new flooded batteries, the actual CEF is
> >>higher; so the E-meter will lead you to overcharge them unless you set
> >>the CEF lower, or overcharge anyway so the E-meter will recalculate CEF
> >>by itself. If you reset the E-meter manually, or don't change the CEF
> >>manually to what it really is, the E-meter will never recalculate CEF
> >>and the problem will continue.
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I appreciate the advice given below, but I want to add something so that
those who give it a try don't start off on the wrong foot.
First, regarding the suitability of the brazing process for EV conversion
type work is questionable. Yes, brazing (flame) temp is lower than the temp
of any electric arc, but think about how much total heat needs to be put
into the metal to heat it to brazing temperature. Lots! The large flame
heats a large area, and the result can be messy, smokey, and ugly. The
confined arc of a MIG or TIG or even SMA really doesn't put that much heat
into the workpiece and can lend itself very well to the type of joinery
required in conversions.
I also caution those who want to try brazing that you NEED to protect your
eyes just as you do when electric welding. It's just that the darkness of
the lens shade is different. Braze with a #2 or #3 lens, weld with
#9,10,11. Hope this helps
RR
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu and Jan
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:56 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
Weld or braze?
I like to braze. Brazing temperature is lower than welding and there is
less heat stress. The brazing temperature flame color is not eye damaging.
You can clearly see what you are doing without having to wear dark glasses.
Fillet brazing can fill uneven joints. Brazing joints are very strong and
they are more flexible than welding joints. Many race cars are brazed.
Oxygen/propane is very cheap. (Fuji bicycles are o/p brazed.) You can also
use it to solder lug joints with o/p. Can't do that with a MIG welder.
My .02
YMMV
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 2:27 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: You need a welder (was: Cable crimping)
At 09:11 PM 5/20/2005, you wrote:
>$21 if you have the the rest of the tools you used to make the tools....
>like a welder, fer instance...
>just sayin....
If you are doing a conversion, you really need to have access to a
MIG welder (or at least a flux-core welder).
It is very difficult to do a conversion without a welder. Folks do
it, but they typically pay more than the price of a welder to have the
welding done for them.
MIG welding is ridiculously simple to do. Can you use a hot glue
gun without burning yourself? If so, you can MIG weld. Folks act like
welding is some mystical black art, and only the "anointed ones" that have
the elusive "welding genes" are allowed to operate the sacred welding
equipment.
I have taught 7th grade girls to MIG weld in less than an hour.
You can get set up to MIG weld for a few hundred dollars.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee:
What would you set the CEF to for say AGMs? I used to use a CEF of 90%,
but of course I burned up that pack via overcharge. Nowadays I have the
E-meter set to 95% CEF, and that seems to mesh up cleanly with a full
pack (maybe 0 to .1ah when the Magnecharger kicks off.
Chris
With AGMs or gels, or with new flooded batteries, the actual CEF is
higher; so the E-meter will lead you to overcharge them unless you set
the CEF lower, or overcharge anyway so the E-meter will recalculate CEF
by itself. If you reset the E-meter manually, or don't change the CEF
manually to what it really is, the E-meter will never recalculate CEF
and the problem will continue.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Big difference between wholesale and retail price lists and
then you get distributor pricing which makes those look a
bit pricy. That you will never see unless you own a franchise
or are part of the recognized chain.
Dave
> I called my local Interstate "all battery center" and asked
> > where he got his batteries from. He gave me the name of a different
> > Interstate battery store that turned out to be the area wholesaler for
> > all of South Texas.
>
>
>
> Why in the world would he cut himself out of making $$$ ????
>
> That guy wasn't too bright, lol
>
> most people in business do not tell there sources, that is just dumb:-)
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
J.R. Young wrote:
what target voltage should I be aiming for to start the shut off
timer? I don't think it's 138.5 as I have it set for now
-snip-
My pack details: 22 x 6v Exide 3600
Do you have all 22 batteries wired in series?
If so, 138.5 volts sounds way too low for a 132-volt nominal pack.
I don't know about Exide, but Trojan says to charge their flooded
batteries to 2.466 volts per cell. Since 6-volt batteries have 3-cells
each, you have 66 cells total in your series string. So your charger's
voltage pot should be set so the voltage limit/ timer kicks on when your
pack voltage hits 162.7 volts. (66 x 2.466)
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> > I have taught 7th grade girls to MIG weld in less than an hour.
>
> And how good were those welds?
(Actually, girls are typically better welders than boys. I have
taught about 40 kids how to weld.)
The welds are just fine for battery boxes and motor mounts.
Notice that many of these folks think that welding is some
mysterious art. It is REALLY simple to MIG weld. (Other types of welding
take considerably more skill.)
It really astounds me how fearful many people are to learn new
skills. Try welding. If you are in Denver, drop by and I will show you how
to MIG weld. You will be amazed at how simple it is.
Do you really want to trust your life to
> them in a collision?
I have to ask. Mike, have you had a certified professional
engineer perform finite element structural simulation on the battery racks
and motor mounts that you sell? WHAT? You haven't? Oh my god!
You don't need to hire a professional to do an EV conversion. You
can read a book and figure it out yourself, or have a buddy show you how to
do it. You also don't need to hire a professional to do the welding for
your EV conversion. You can read a book and figure it out yourself, or have
a buddy show you how to do it.
If we depended on certified professionals to do everything, there
wouldn't be any home-built EV conversions at all.
Keep in mind that 1000's of folks successfully build airplanes
every year in their garages simply by reading the instructions and/or
asking a buddy to show you how to do it. You trust your life to every part
of the airplane that you construct. The FAA _REQUIRES_ that you build at
least 51% yourself.
Neon writes:
What the h*ll does that have to do with anything in this discussion?
We're not welding pressure vessels, nor are we welding high alloy
steel. We're squirting mild steel onto either mild or low carbon
steel.
Exactly my point. Welding street cars is not rocket science.
Just for the record, I was formerly a certified welder and a certified
nuclear non-destructive testing inspector. >I< can teach someone to
make structurally sound MIG welds that will pass dye penetrant and
ultrasonic inspection in hours. I'm sure he can too. I taught my ex
in about an hour and by the end of the day her welds were even pretty.
MIG welding is _REALLY_ easy to do.
I do stick, TIG, and flame welding as well. These styles of
welding can be as difficult as playing the saxophone. MIG welding is as
difficult as playing the Kazoo.
_ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
\'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
=(___)=
U
Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would use 158 to 160 as the top of the charge.
Keep a eye on them gassing , if it gets to wild turn the amps down.
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:56 AM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
> Lee,
>
> It is set at 90... but I don't believe that's the (main) problem. It
> doesn't even come close to returning all the Ah used, it returned about
8ah
> vs the 30ah removed. I'm pretty sure I have the PFC-20 voltage trim set
> too low. I have it set to start the shut off timer when the voltage
reaches
> 139. Even after discharging the pack about 20% to 30%, it hits 140 volts
> the second I turn on the charger. So it doesn't spend ANY time in the
main
> charge cycle, it just spends 90 minutes at 5 amps and less.
>
> So I think the question is, when my PFC-20 is in the main charge cycle
> (charging at 19.5 amps), what target voltage should I be aiming for to
start
> the shut off timer? I don't think it's 138.5 as I have it set for now, it
> must be higher than that.
>
> My pack details:
>
> 22 x 6v Exide 3600 (Sam's Club Batteries)
>
> Thanks!
>
> Glenn
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:20 AM
> Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
>
>
> > J.R. Young wrote:
> > > My concern is that it seems like I'm taking a lot more OUT of the
> batteries than I'm putting back in... Anybody have any suggestions?
> >
> > What is the E-meter's CEF (Charge Efficiency Factor) set for? The
> > default is 90%, which means the E-meter expects you to put in an extra
> > 10% to reach "full". Suppose it reads -100ah after a drive; if you
> > charge 10 hours at 10 amps = 100ah, the meter only counts 90% of this,
> > or 90ah; thus the E-meter still indicates -10ah. You have to put in
> > 111ah to have the meter reach 100% and start blinking the "fully
> > charged" indicator.
> >
> > With AGMs or gels, or with new flooded batteries, the actual CEF is
> > higher; so the E-meter will lead you to overcharge them unless you set
> > the CEF lower, or overcharge anyway so the E-meter will recalculate CEF
> > by itself. If you reset the E-meter manually, or don't change the CEF
> > manually to what it really is, the E-meter will never recalculate CEF
> > and the problem will continue.
> > --
> > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich,
What would you suggest as a time out once it reaches 158? I have it set on
90 minutes right now, but after doing some reading it looks like 2-4 hours
may be more appropriate?
Best wishes,
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 4:01 PM
Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
> I would use 158 to 160 as the top of the charge.
>
> Keep a eye on them gassing , if it gets to wild turn the amps down.
>
> Rich Rudman
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:56 AM
> Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
>
>
> > Lee,
> >
> > It is set at 90... but I don't believe that's the (main) problem. It
> > doesn't even come close to returning all the Ah used, it returned about
> 8ah
> > vs the 30ah removed. I'm pretty sure I have the PFC-20 voltage trim
set
> > too low. I have it set to start the shut off timer when the voltage
> reaches
> > 139. Even after discharging the pack about 20% to 30%, it hits 140
volts
> > the second I turn on the charger. So it doesn't spend ANY time in the
> main
> > charge cycle, it just spends 90 minutes at 5 amps and less.
> >
> > So I think the question is, when my PFC-20 is in the main charge cycle
> > (charging at 19.5 amps), what target voltage should I be aiming for to
> start
> > the shut off timer? I don't think it's 138.5 as I have it set for now,
it
> > must be higher than that.
> >
> > My pack details:
> >
> > 22 x 6v Exide 3600 (Sam's Club Batteries)
> >
> > Thanks!
> >
> > Glenn
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 11:20 AM
> > Subject: Re: Another Newbie Charging Question
> >
> >
> > > J.R. Young wrote:
> > > > My concern is that it seems like I'm taking a lot more OUT of the
> > batteries than I'm putting back in... Anybody have any suggestions?
> > >
> > > What is the E-meter's CEF (Charge Efficiency Factor) set for? The
> > > default is 90%, which means the E-meter expects you to put in an extra
> > > 10% to reach "full". Suppose it reads -100ah after a drive; if you
> > > charge 10 hours at 10 amps = 100ah, the meter only counts 90% of this,
> > > or 90ah; thus the E-meter still indicates -10ah. You have to put in
> > > 111ah to have the meter reach 100% and start blinking the "fully
> > > charged" indicator.
> > >
> > > With AGMs or gels, or with new flooded batteries, the actual CEF is
> > > higher; so the E-meter will lead you to overcharge them unless you set
> > > the CEF lower, or overcharge anyway so the E-meter will recalculate
CEF
> > > by itself. If you reset the E-meter manually, or don't change the CEF
> > > manually to what it really is, the E-meter will never recalculate CEF
> > > and the problem will continue.
> > > --
> > > "Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
> > > citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
> > > has!" -- Margaret Mead
> > > --
> > > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> > >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Glen,
I'm a bit of a newbie myself, but with 22 6V
batteries you have 66 cells (three per battery) divide
your final charging voltage of 138.5 and you only get
2.1V per cell. Through my earlier questions to the
list I have learned that the final charge voltage
should be 2.4V per cell, +/- .003V per cell per degree
difference from 25 degrees C (thnaks Lee) The higher
the temperature the lower the voltage. If your
charging at 25 degrees your finish voltage should be
158.4 volts, 20 volts higher than you're finishing at.
Hope this helps,
TiM
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for all the good input on battery sales. I like the Remy site and
will look there. I also have to say I'm interested in Intimidators as well.
Jeff "newbie" Wilson
Building a grin
-----Original Message-----
From: STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 10:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: battery sales center
another is , something when there just isn't enough money in something ,
your better off just passing it on to the next guy,
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 6:16 PM
Subject: Re: battery sales center
> darren wrote:
>
>> Why in the world would he cut himself out of making $$$ ????
>
> The situation could have been like this:
>
> Let's say just for example that I worked there. Just a minimum wage
> employee. If you came in and asked where we got the batteries from, I
> would have told you...
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Rau
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
I appreciate the advice given below, but I want to add something so that
those who give it a try don't start off on the wrong foot.
First, regarding the suitability of the brazing process for EV conversion
type work is questionable. Yes, brazing (flame) temp is lower than the temp
of any electric arc, but think about how much total heat needs to be put
into the metal to heat it to brazing temperature. Lots! The large flame
heats a large area, and the result can be messy, smokey, and ugly. The
confined arc of a MIG or TIG or even SMA really doesn't put that much heat
into the workpiece and can lend itself very well to the type of joinery
required in conversions.
Heat = mass x (t2-t1) x specific heat
Welding requires adequate temperature to melt both metal pieces being
joined. In brazing, the temperature is always lower than that required to
achieve the steel melting point.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AMEN! As a new to the EV world trying to develop my EV person, I can tell
you it's been tough trying to find up to date pricing and navigation on EV
parts web sites.
Jeff "newbie" Wilson
Building a grin :-)
-----Original Message-----
From: mreish [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 10:50 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Where is the best buy on ADC motors?
>>EVparts.com has a little better website, but it is starting to get out
>>of date. There have been some mutterings that support/inventory for
>
>Don't forget the Cloud brothers at cloudelectric.com - later on the web
than
>WildeEvolutions/EVParts, but sometimes that means you get to see the other
>guys' mistakes and avoid them.
But sometimes not.
Pardon me for getting a rip and this is not aimed at any one retailer:
I think the state of EV/Web commerce is pretty bad. Between sites
that are hard to navigate, rarely if ever updated, difficult to order
through and just plain ugly, I'm amazed they've found the ROI to keep
them going. Am I the only one who gathers information, or tries to
actually, before placing an order by browsing catalogs weather they
be old fashioned print catalogs or online? Am I the only one who's
NOT purchased parts because the only way to do so was by an insecure
form or worse, an email link? Am I the only one who dreads getting a
phone call two days after an order is placed saying the parts are no
longer carried?
Come on guys. It's 2005 and time to get your sites out of 1995.
Mike
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a new battery question.
Most of the applications I've seen in the EV web site of all you experienced
builders shows that you always mount your SLA batteries standing up.
Suppose you have a particular application that only has about 7 or 8 inches
of clearance. Can you mount an SLA battery on it's side? Will that hurt
the battery in any way?
Jeff "newbie" Wilson
Building an EV grin:-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu,
There is more to it than an equation. Even though you are right about the
heat required to melt the respective filler metals, there is another big
factor that comes into play. No matter what the thickness of the base metal
that you want to join, if you compare the total Btu's put into the structure
during the heating cycle, you will be putting in more during the brazing
process. It has a lot to do with the focus of the heat. In brazing, think
about the size of the flame and the amount of time it needs to be held on
the area where you want to add filler (Low Fuming Bronze?)in order the reach
the temperature where your filler flows to join the pieces. Compare that to
the confined and controlled arc of the welding process. The electric arc
makes a molten puddle nearly immediately at a small location. In my
experience, and I have done hundreds of hours of both, you will put in
significantly less total heat when welding as opposed to brazing.
Richard Rau
Think about it from the perspective of the skilled hobbyist that you are.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu and Jan
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Rau
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
I appreciate the advice given below, but I want to add something so that
those who give it a try don't start off on the wrong foot.
First, regarding the suitability of the brazing process for EV conversion
type work is questionable. Yes, brazing (flame) temp is lower than the temp
of any electric arc, but think about how much total heat needs to be put
into the metal to heat it to brazing temperature. Lots! The large flame
heats a large area, and the result can be messy, smokey, and ugly. The
confined arc of a MIG or TIG or even SMA really doesn't put that much heat
into the workpiece and can lend itself very well to the type of joinery
required in conversions.
Heat = mass x (t2-t1) x specific heat
Welding requires adequate temperature to melt both metal pieces being
joined. In brazing, the temperature is always lower than that required to
achieve the steel melting point.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shipping issues and costs generally preclude internet sales of batteries. If
you could arrange a national account with a "dropship" or local pickup deal
with the manufacturers it might work but they usually work through
distributors at the local level. Good luck if you give it a go.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:40 AM
Subject: battery sales center
I have found several internet "EV Parts" stores that provide complete kits
for EVs with several different options on major components like controllers
and motors, etc.
I have not been able to find a single source internet site for batteries.
There are many battery sites available on the net including the
manufacturers sites, but I have not seen any real retail sites that sell
different types of batteries with a focus on EVs.
Has anyone seen a site that has Orbitals, Optimas, etc. for sale with up
to date pricing? If not, I wonder if a site like that would be something
to consider as an internet business? Any thoughts from the community?
Jeff "newbie" Wilson
Still developing my grin :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu, I apologize for not deleting this comment made after my explanation-
"Think about it from the perspective of the skilled hobbyist that you are"
I had moved that away while writing because it sounded too harsh, then it
was still lurking there when I pressed "Send" Sorry!
Best to you,
Richard "Newbie who doesn't want to admit it" Rau
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Rau
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
Stu,
There is more to it than an equation. Even though you are right about the
heat required to melt the respective filler metals, there is another big
factor that comes into play. No matter what the thickness of the base metal
that you want to join, if you compare the total Btu's put into the structure
during the heating cycle, you will be putting in more during the brazing
process. It has a lot to do with the focus of the heat. In brazing, think
about the size of the flame and the amount of time it needs to be held on
the area where you want to add filler (Low Fuming Bronze?)in order the reach
the temperature where your filler flows to join the pieces. Compare that to
the confined and controlled arc of the welding process. The electric arc
makes a molten puddle nearly immediately at a small location. In my
experience, and I have done hundreds of hours of both, you will put in
significantly less total heat when welding as opposed to brazing.
Richard Rau
Think about it from the perspective of the skilled hobbyist that you are.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu and Jan
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 6:13 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Richard Rau
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 4:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: You need a welder (Weld or braze?)
I appreciate the advice given below, but I want to add something so that
those who give it a try don't start off on the wrong foot.
First, regarding the suitability of the brazing process for EV conversion
type work is questionable. Yes, brazing (flame) temp is lower than the temp
of any electric arc, but think about how much total heat needs to be put
into the metal to heat it to brazing temperature. Lots! The large flame
heats a large area, and the result can be messy, smokey, and ugly. The
confined arc of a MIG or TIG or even SMA really doesn't put that much heat
into the workpiece and can lend itself very well to the type of joinery
required in conversions.
Heat = mass x (t2-t1) x specific heat
Welding requires adequate temperature to melt both metal pieces being
joined. In brazing, the temperature is always lower than that required to
achieve the steel melting point.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey, what about converting a fire truck? I am getting ready to list a `68
American La France on E-bay pretty cheap! Maybe you could tape the
conversion and sell it to TV. Would also make a killer Burningman vehicle.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
I think my press might be too much.... what's the
conversion for 100,000 lbs....
Gadget
ps I might just toss the triumph conversion. the tow
yard has another car I can get for less than 200
bucks.. I'll check it out tomorrow.
Gadget
--- Philippe Borges <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
Whitout tools there is another solution:
buy the hammer crimper BUT use it under a press.
You should find one to use just about 10mn (all
cable ready to crimp) for
free at any big mechanics shop around.
i mix both solution because i have tolls and i made
my press crimper,
crimping is very effective under 30 000kg force :^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'�chappement sortait au centre du
volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les v�hicules �lectriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony McCormick" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, May 21, 2005 5:11 AM
Subject: Re: Cable crimping
> $21 if you have the the rest of the tools you used
to make the tools....
> like a welder, fer instance...
> just sayin....
>
> Tony
> "Welcome to the dawn of a new error"
> http://www.notebene.net/philosophy.html
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Don't use a hammer crimper. They really do not
make a good crimp.
> >
> > Here is a link to my $21 2-0 crimpers:
> >
> > http://www.haritech.com/crimp.htm
> >
> > Why buy a hammer crimper when you can make a
hex crimper for $21?
> >
> > Be sure to buy the 4 foot bolt cutters. The
short ones just don't
> > have the leverage you need. Try to find old,
solid handle, bolt
> > cutters. You don't care about how trashed the
jaws are, so you can
> > generally get them pretty cheap.
> >
> > I have also made some good crimps in very
tight places with my
> > CP-214 pneumatic rivet squeezer, but that is
another story. :^)
> > _ /| Bill "Wisenheimer" Dube'
> > \'o.O' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > =(___)=
> > U
> > Check out the bike -> http://www.KillaCycle.com
> >
> >
> >
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Two 8 amp 220 variac's on one shaft. Can I pump the same 220v line in to
both and get 16 amps at 300v? These are rated at 8 amps each. Can I
parallel the output?
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Most of the applications I've seen in the EV web site of all you
experienced
builders shows that you always mount your SLA batteries standing up.
Suppose you have a particular application that only has about 7 or 8 inches
of clearance. Can you mount an SLA battery on it's side? Will that hurt
the battery in any way?
Check the specs. Hawkers for example can be mounted in any orientation,
and up to 50 feet below water. Others might have problems; probably
depends on the type of valves they use.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, May 20, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: You need a welder (was: Cable crimping)
MIG welding is ridiculously simple to do. Can you use a hot glue
gun without burning yourself? If so, you can MIG weld. Folks act like
welding is some mystical black art, and only the "anointed ones" that have
the elusive "welding genes" are allowed to operate the sacred welding
equipment.
I have taught 7th grade girls to MIG weld in less than an hour.
No, it's not ridiculously simple to do. Yes, a beginner can learn to
make a bead in under an hour. Wit persistence and practice and
study, that beginner can be a tolerably good welder after an additional
100 hours. There are a lot of skills to learn; how to set up the welding
machine and control the arc,
how to inspect and test weld joints, how to make the various joints in the
various positions, how to repair weld defects, etc. A good welder
should also have some mastery of welded structures design.
Welding as you say isn't some mystical black art. It's a set of skills
that almost anyone can acquire with patience, persistence and practice.
But, it takes much, much longer than an hour.
--- End Message ---
