EV Digest 4413
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Optimas, 31 or 34 ?
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Metro Conversion For Sale
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Duh! Vacation Mode?
by Larry Skidmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Discovery Channel to film NEDRA Power of DC
by Chip Gribben <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Another e-meter question...Lee?
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Forklift experience. I got forked. Maybe you won't.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Argggggggg. Another Wrecked electric vehicle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Rabbit front springs
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Rabbit front springs
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Rabbit front springs
by John Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Rabbit front springs
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Another e-meter question...Lee?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Rabbit front springs
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: The Discovery EV program
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Motor abuse? (was: RE: 9" Warp motor for drag racing)
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Another e-meter question...Lee?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: The Discovery EV program
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Current measurement, was: Re: Another e-meter question
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) TdS Report #66: Team Profile: Plug-in Prius
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- Begin Message ---
On 4 Jun 2005 at 10:27, John Martin wrote:
> Is there an archive to check out.?
EV list archives:
http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/
http://www.egroups.com/list/ev/
Briefly: the 31 is a larger, heavier, more expensive battery with more
capacity. Otherwise, from what I can tell, there's relatively little
difference in the design.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
It's really regrettable that the producing organization won't sell copies of
this program. That makes it tough for those of us who don't have cable
and/or don't own television sets.
When this program first aired, another EV list member very kindly made it
possible for me to see the program on my DVD player. I'd be happy to pass
along the favor. To find out more, please contact me OFF LINE via private
email at the address below. (Convert the (at) and remove both of the
"_nospam_" additions, including the underscores.)
ev_nospam_dl(at)dr_nospam_mm.net
I'm not in competition with them and I have no desire to transcend "fair
use," so if the producers decide to make the program available on mailable
media, this offer will be immediately rescinded.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am posting this for an off-list customer who is selling a converted
Metro, just dropped his asking price from $7,500 to $6,800 OBO. For a
photo and specs, see http://www.electroauto.com/gallery/metro.shtml If you
are interested, contact him directly, Mark Zilka at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The car is in Minnesota.
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry, lost the signup response sheet which said how to put list into "don't
deliver during vaction" mode. Some kind soul's help please.
Thanks,
Larry Skidmore
Puebla, Mexico
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM & more. Check it out!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi David, I have permission in writing from The Discovery Channel to
reproduce the show for educational purposes. The deal I make with someone is
that they can make a copy for their own use and then take the one I send
them and donate it to their local library or school along with the
permission letter. Please contact me offline to discuss this further.
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 12:23 PM
Subject: Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
It's really regrettable that the producing organization won't sell copies
of
this program. That makes it tough for those of us who don't have cable
and/or don't own television sets.
When this program first aired, another EV list member very kindly made it
possible for me to see the program on my DVD player. I'd be happy to pass
along the favor. To find out more, please contact me OFF LINE via private
email at the address below. (Convert the (at) and remove both of the
"_nospam_" additions, including the underscores.)
ev_nospam_dl(at)dr_nospam_mm.net
I'm not in competition with them and I have no desire to transcend "fair
use," so if the producers decide to make the program available on mailable
media, this offer will be immediately rescinded.
--
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No virus found in this outgoing message.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Date: 5 Jun 2005 03:18:03 -0000
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [email protected]
Subject: TdS Report #66: Team Profile: Plug-in Prius
TdS Report #66: Team Profile: Plug-in Prius
There are some of us who never understood the `complaint' that you had to plug
a battery-electric car in. Like I really would miss the trip to the gas
station? They haven't given me a free cup or a scratch-to-win card in decades!
So when I heard that a plug-in Prius was not only coming to the Tour de Sol,
but was participating in the Monte Carlo Rally, I was really excited.
Greg Hanssen, Vice President of Energy Control Systems Engineering (EnergyCS)
was explaining the plug-in Prius that his company and Valence Technology have
created.
The idea of a plug-in hybrid is to charge the batteries by plugging in every
night and then drive as much as you can on 2 cents per mile house current and
only then use the 4 cents per mile gasoline. Clearly quoting just the gasoline
mileage is not a true measure, but saying "I'm getting 100 miles per gallon"
will get people's attention.
"People understand what a gallon of gas costs, but they don't understand what
kiloWatt-hour of electricity costs, or even what a kiloWatt-hour of electricity
IS! So we've been focusing more on the national security side of the story;
the petroleum reduction is really the hot topic right now."
Maybe that's true most places, but the Tour de Sol is not most places.
Lots of people who visited the car at the Tour displays wanted to understand
the technology and what its benefits are.
"Aside from the battery system in the back of the car and the little display
and control module up on the dashboard, this is a stock Toyota Prius. We've
taken out the 80 pound, 1.3 kiloWatt-hour nickel metal hydride battery that
came with the car, as well as the battery controller, and replaced them with a
250 pound, 9 kiloWatt-hour Valence Saphion lithium ion battery system, with our
own EnergyCS control system on top of it. EnergyCS is working with a company
in Los Angles called Clean Tech to start a new company called EDrive Systems
which will commercialize this system. We expect that by early 2006 we will
have a upgrade option for sale, between $10,000 to $12,000. Right now the
batteries alone cost more than that. But we are working on ways to integrate
it and repackage it, and Valence is working on new chemistries and packaging
methods for the battery cells and modules, to bring it down to that price
point.
"We supply a 1 kiloWatt, 110 Volts AC battery charger. If the 9 kiloWatt hour
battery we provide were totally empty it would take 9 hours to charge it to
full. "With the battery fully charged, we trick the Toyota hybrid system,
without modifying it. We turn on the Electric Vehicle mode where the car
drives strictly on battery below 34 miles per hour. Above 34 mhp we convince
the Toyota hybrid controller that the battery needs to be discharged by telling
it that the battery is full." The car tries to bring it back down again, to
the 80% state-of-charge it likes. "But we keep saying `you are full'. So,
even with the engine running, it's putting 6 to 8 kiloWatts from the battery
into the electric motors, which lowers the gasoline consumption." The result
is that even on the freeway, you're still getting 80, 90 miles per gallon
with the electric assist. At low speeds you're getting infinite miles per
gallon, because you are not using the gas at all." Instead, you're using the
energy from last night's charge. "So combined, we get about 100-to-150 mpg for
the first 50-to-60 miles of the day.
The Prius still has the full regenerative braking capability, like normal.
How long will the batteries last? "The Valence guys say 8 to 10 years."
The idea of a plug-in Prius has been around for a while. How does this compare
with the California Cars Initiative? "About a year and a half ago, Felix
Kramer started CalCars to press for the idea of plug-in hybrids, to push the
concept. He put together an internet group, which the New York Times called
`garage tinkerers', to find a way to make the Prius a plug-in hybrid. But we
could tell that the methods they were trying weren't destined to go anywhere.
We sold them our electronics to do the battery monitoring and the control,
because we had already figured some of this stuff out. They put lead acid
scooter batteries in a Prius with our control system. Even though those
batteries were not a really good match to the car, they could see some
respectable performance gain. We then moved along to a more advanced battery.
My company has been working with Valence on a number of other projects, and it
became clear that the Valence module was a perfect fit."
How does Toyota view this with respect to the warranty? "Toyota says you are
voiding your warranty, of course. When EDrive commercializes the system we
will have some sort of warranty on the battery, the installation and the
controller. We are still working some of these details out. Technically, when
there is a problem, an Original Equipment Manufacturer (OEM) is responsible to
demonstrate that what an after-market installer caused it. If the engine conks
out, or the emissions control system conks out, we'll say `we didn't touch any
of that.' And they'll say, `yeah, but your manipulating the car to run in a
way that is not normal.' Then the finger pointing could start. We'll
have to work all that out. Fortunately, since we are working with Toyota and
one of the best built cars in the world we are not as worried about things
falling apart."
Will this be available on the east coast? "When we launch in early 2006, it
will be in California. As we add other hybrids into the EDrive system, like
the Escape, Lexus and Highlander (which are completely different systems and
their own challenges), we will be looking to get certified installers in other
areas."
"One of the things we are trying to figure out is how to label the car so
people know it's a 125 mile per gallon vehicle. Maybe we'll put a display in
the rear window displaying the miles per gallon."
[I wondered how the charge management of the battery was handled. Would every
_cell_ get individual attention?] "Yes. Every parallel block of cells, 3.2
Volts, has its own voltage measurement and balancing circuit." [Yippee! Right
Answer! Thank you. (I do have some prejudices when it comes to battery
management of advanced chemistries.)]
How did they do in the Rally? "By the time we ended our plug-in boost range,
where we pulled as much as we could out of the batteries (which were charged
the night before), we had driven 90 miles averaging 123 miles per gallon. By
the time we drove 120 miles, we were just at 100 miles per gallon. According
to our computers, we drove the required 150 miles averaging 90 miles per
gallon."
Speaking of the on-board computers, the normal Prius energy usage display
doesn't know it's being fooled, so all the little markers start out pegged at
99.9 and the whole screen is bright green. "After 60 miles, when you've used
the plug-in energy, it goes down. When it gets to 50 the display looks like a
normal Prius."
- - - -
The complete set of Tour de Sol Reports for 2005 can be found at:
http://www.AutoAuditorium.com/TdS_Reports_2005
The complete set of past Tour de Sol Reports can be found at:
http://www.FovealSystems.com/Tour_de_Sol_Reports.html
- - - -
The above is Copyright 2005 by Michael H. Bianchi.
Permission to copy is granted provided the entire article is presented
without modification and this notice remains attached.
For other arrangements, contact me at +1-973-822-2085 .
- - - -
For more on the NESEA Tour de Sol, see the web page at
http://www.TourdeSol.org
- - - -
Official NESEA Tour de Sol information is available from the sponsor,
the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) at
413 774-6051 , and 50 Miles Street, Greenfield, MA 01301 , and
[EMAIL PROTECTED] . All media enquiries should be addressed to ...
Jack Groh
Tour de Sol Communications Director
P.O. Box 6044
Warwick, RI 02887-6044
401 732-1551
401 732-0547 fax
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
