EV Digest 4416
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Siamese Motors
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Siamese Motors
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Matching 2 motor set ups, was Re: Siamese Motors
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Spring broke inside EVT controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: PT Cruiser conversion kit
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Forklift motor rotates CW no matter the polarity.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Splined shafts
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: The Discovery EV program
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Power of DC, Another One!
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
11) Custom Emblems (for EVs)
by mreish <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: What conversion kits would you be interested in? (long)
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Forklift motor rotates CW no matter the polarity.
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: PT Cruiser conversion kit
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: The Discovery EV program
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Portland Visit
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: More SIADIS questions...(slightly OT)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: PT Cruiser conversion kit
by Tony McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: The Discovery EV program
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Amp Head, Heads Up
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Fw: Forklift experience. Oh Joy.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RS-232 isolators for E-meter, SIADIS, etc.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: The Discovery EV program
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Matching 2 motor set ups, was Re: Siamese Motors
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Pressing armature shafts
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: RS-232 isolators for E-meter, SIADIS, etc.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I had one question nagging at the back of my brain....
How are you going to bolt the second housing to the center DE plate
in a sanitary and clean looking geometry.
Well I took and mounted the modified plate to the 2nd housing as it
would be placed (Backwards) but bolted it down with the original bolt
holes that will be used to mount it to the 1st housing. I then
knocked out the outer 2 fins from each vent window; John had five
fins total leaving three per each window. After making all eight
areas smooth, I drilled and tapped 8, 1/4X 20 holes and Walla I have
8, � X 20 mount screws for one side. I will enlarge the other side
to take 5/16th X 18 bolts making both sides stronger than OEM. This
also allowed me to keep all field poles aligned per OEM holes.
Hope this cleared that itch lol
Thanks
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
541-548-6140
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I found it interesting that the photo did not show a commutator or
a fan.
>
> Any idea why?
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
Well this looks like a photo shoot for someone like Warfield or
Advance. It just shows the basic parts for an armature. The body
and comm. Just press on at about 20 to 30 tons. Big armatures take
about 40 to 50 tons. The trick is not crushing the comm. Also not
all motors take a fan. Also ratings like "1 hour" and "5 minutes"
are for that motor under a set load. There can be two same motor
(lets say prestolite MEA's) or (two Advance 's) with different shaft
and mount styles. One can be a drive motor at 1-hour duty cycle and
the other a pump at 5 min. duty. They are the same exact motor
electrically; this info means bupkiss to you guys.
Does this help?
Thanks
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
541-548-6140
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:59 PM
> Subject: Re: Siamese Motors
>
>
> > James wrote:
> >
> > > Pressing the armature off in order to replace the center
bearing sounds
> a
> > > lot of work,
> >
> >
> > Say for instance that the shaft was locked, and enough load was
put on
> > the armature; what's to keep it from spinning on the shaft?
> >
> > http://www.imagehosting.us/himages/ihnp-510863.jpg
> >
> > How's it held in place?
> >
> > Also, why don't they make the motor frame out of aluminum?
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi Jim and All,
> I'm planning on putting 2 D+D 6.7" motors,
> same as the ADC A89, nose to nose and was wondering
> how to match them for my new production EV. They will
> run in series/parallel direct drive with a Alltrak's
> 450 amp controller.
> First to see if they are matched could I
> run them in series while hooked together and see if
> they take the same voltage?
> Or run them seperately and note the amps?
> Or other method?
> Could their initial friction before break
> in effect this?
> I assume I should run then 5-10 hrs on
> 12vdc to break them in? Would that be enough?
> And if they don't match, how should I
> match them? Shimming the poles? Timing the brushes?
> Ect? Easiest way possible would be nice.
> These are '36vdc' motors running on
> 72vdc so I'm wondering should they be advanced timing
> wise or worthwhile or is neutural ok?
> Eff and long life is the main focus
> here.
> Jim, your posts have been very
> interesting,
> Thanks,
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
>
>My imput is that OEM they should be just fine. With Wayland every
nano second counts so I want the motors tuned perfect. Advancing the
timing is proven by John's motors and I would take his advise. You
might not need 12 degrees but you might want some advancment. If you
do decide to advance just try to get them as even as possible. As
I've got no tried and true motors yet to be driven (HARD) I'd listen
to the masters, for now hehehe. Whats D+D??
Thanks to all
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
541-548-6140
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've replaced springs at my local hardware store. Cole hardware in San
Francisco had about 70 springs of different forms. LR.....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rodriguez, Jennifer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 3:48 PM
Subject: RE: Spring broke inside EVT controller
Just thought I'd update the list to let everyone know that Otmar was
able to fix my controller in about an hour! Fortunately, he had a
similar spring on hand. Now I'm going to take the broken spring and try
to find an exact (or at least close) replacement so I'll be ready for
next time.
Thanks, Otmar!
Jenn
-----Original Message-----
From: Rodriguez, Jennifer {Info~Palo Alto}
Sent: Wednesday, June 01, 2005 12:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Spring broke inside EVT controller
Argh! On my way to work this morning, all of a sudden there was no
spring-back on the throttle handle of my EVT 4000e scooter. This
happened to me once before, when I first got my (demo-model) scooter.
The spring on the throttle cable INSIDE the controller broke and I had
no real throttle control anymore. At that time, I got the controller
replaced under warranty. But that was two years and 6300 miles ago.
Thank goodness that the motor cuts out when the brakes are applied,
hopefully I'll be able to limp my way home. (I think it will be more
like ZOOM-coast-ZOOM-coast-ZOOM-coast...).
If anyone else has dealt successfully with this issue, I'd love to hear
about it. Todd Kollin says he heard that someone on the East coast was
actually able to replace the spring successfully, but Todd does not know
how/where to get the correct replacement spring.
Thanks!
Jenn
Yellow EVT 4000e
Santa Clara, CA
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan, Mark and All,
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Mark Farver wrote:
>
> > A new PT Cruiser:
> > Standard Base: $13,622
> > Standard w/power: $15,500
> >
> > Convertible Base: $19,700
> > Convertible w/Power options (Touring Edition):
> $23,000
>
>
> 2005 PT Cruiser: $9988
Good Price!! That makes it a good EV conversion
canidate. Now if they would just make a Panel Van
lightweight bare bones truck version. It would
probably weight 400lbs less.
And since it uses Neon componants, like drive
train, lower body, suspension, ect, most of the EV kit
will fit it too.
You should know that convertibles are usually much
weaker without the roof to stiffen the body box and
heavier as they beef up the lower body to try to make
up for it and the added weight of the convertible
equipment.
For this reason the load of batteries makes
convertibles not good for EV's in many cases.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> http://www.normandodge.com/
> (scroll down a bit, read fine print below sale ad)
>
>
> Also, a few 3/4/5 thousand dollar ones listed:
>
>
http://motors.listings.ebay.com/Chrysler_PT-Cruiser_W0QQfclZ3QQfromZR12QQfsooZ1QQfsopZ3QQsacatZ15285QQsbrsrtZlQQsocmdZListingItemList
>
>
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It has a blower with very good air flow. It does have that Batmobile whine
& that was only at 8v. The pot box that I took from the forklift is very
smooth has a 9.5k pot. Both forward and reverse is wired. Two switches one
activates at each end of the throw. It's totally inclosed and when I took
it apart it looked like new components inside. Maybe one of the reasons it
is still working smooth after 30 years of use. Very solid Most pots for
Curtis type controllers go to 5k What happens when a pot goes too far?
Will the controller max out or ignore the increased resistance. With the
extra switch it is possible to wire a bypass contactor for a little extra
omph on hills. LR......
----- Original Message -----
From: "James Massey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 8:18 PM
Subject: Re: Forklift motor rotates CW no matter the polarity.
At 03:04 PM 5/06/05 -0700, Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
What does a 4.5kw motor mean? 4500 watt motor? That's ten times more
powerful than an average scooter motor. CCW is OK for left mounted
sprockets. Would this pump motor be any better or worse than any other
series wound motor? Feels solid and smooth. It is rated 23v 4.5kw for 5
minutes. Is this the melt down point? Wonder what the continous use
would be? .......
4500watts at 23V is 195amps, at [x] RPM.
If it is capable of running up to three times the RPM, then at [3x] RPM,
would be (approx) 3 times the voltage, so 13500 watts @ 195A. Still only 5
min rating, but probably capable of taking 20kW for 30 seconds or so. Now
if you can get to 4 or 5 times the RPM, and only need say 5kW, at (for
example) 72V (3x base) the amps is only 69.4 amps, probably in keeping
with its' continuous current rating.
Does it have a blower? My traction motor is rates a measly 4.5hp
@45V/2200RPM 1 hour, but no blower. I'm adding an external blower and will
be running it with a Zilla at up to 5000RPM. I'm going to put kevlar
wrapping around strategic points and get the rotor balanced before putting
it to work.
Is the motor female spline shaft with no stick-out? It would be possible
to have a new end machined that takes a larger bearing, that runs on the
outside of an adaptor shaft. Or if it looks worth it, a new complete
center shaft.
Just my $0.02
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I took apart the pump on the motor and took out the splined shaft. Question
is how do you keep it in once you have sprockets on? Might work for a shaft
drive This is a problem with sprockets.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I heard a rumor that a yellow roadster might come gunning fof Goldie at
Wood Burn.
F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 6/5/2005 12:20:00 PM
> Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
>
>
> > Without getting into another pissing match I will just state that I will
> > stand by my decisions and designs and just repeat what Dennis Berube
says:
> > "The truth is in the time slips." I will also stand on my world records.
> > Instead of talking Rich, why don't you just see if you can get Goldie
into
> > the 14s at Woodburn.
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> > www.suckamps.com
> >
>
> Oh Sorry Rod
> Both my EVs still run.
> And I am offering to take GP into the 14s and lower...If you let me.
>
>
>
> Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everyone,
I've been a lurker for quite some time on the list having made some
contributions and have asked some questions. I'm about to embark on my
own conversion. A 1991 Ford Festiva in which I plan to install a 6"
Advanced DC, Curtis Controller and Trojan T-105, pretty standard stuff
really. What I was wondering is I've read over the years that some
people remove the clutch entirely and most EV converters leave the
clutch. Could someone tell me very briefly or point to a good source as
to the Pros and Cons and going clutch-less.
thanks all for the amazing information on this list.
Stefano
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Great !
We can have a VW race.
See you there.
Robert Salem
81 VW pickup,240 vots, Z2K, 11" Kostov
Quoting Bob Rice
>
> Hi All;
>
> OK ! Snap decision. I'll tow the Rabbit, which I have dubbed " Led Sled"
> down for the races, Leave CT Fri AM, trusty Rusty Ford Van, origional Slow
> Boxy Thing, Rabbit in tow. Sleeping stuff aboard, Arrive Fri Nite. at the
> track. Yes you can camp out there, we have before.
>
> Watching the Rabbit run should be exciting as watching grass grow or
> paint dry. But whatthehell, EV's are fun. It aint a racing thing, but with a
> stronger clutch, no time to change it NOW!Weeded out a few tired batteries,
> should help beat Acela times?Off the line, anyhow?
>
> Seeya There!
>
> Bob
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just stumbled on this while reading a blog. It's a company that
makes custom badges for cars. Yeah, I know the EV suppliers sell one
that says "Electric Vehicle" or whatever but this can be made to say
whatever you want.
http://www.youremblem.com/
Disclaimer:
I have no connection to this place. I just stumbled onto them.
For all I know they may be a Mafia front keeping track of who
has nifty vehicles for their chop shops.
--
The Electric Motorcycle Portal
http://www.electricmotorcycles.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
On Jun 5, 2005, at 8:48 PM, Mark Farver wrote:
Doug Weathers wrote:
For fun, I like the Toyota MR2 Spyder convertible. Too expensive,
not a
Toyota has cancelled the MR2. The MK3 was a great car, but it made a
Miata look spacious. 1.9 Cubic feet of storage.. (behind the seats,
no trunk at all) They are fairly affordable used, many owners find
themselves unable to cope with the impracticality of the car. I
wanted to do one as a conversion but after several hours crawling
around on I decide it would never hold enough batteries.
There's still an MR2 Spyder convertible.
http://www.toyota.com/mr2spyder/index.html
The MK3 and the Spyder are different names for the same car. The MR2
and Celica GT lines will be cancelled for the 2006 production year.
2005 is the last year.
http://www.autoblog.com/entry/5180866986576277/
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stefano,
There's been lots of discussion about this on the EVDL in the past, so you
might find some good info searching the archives.
Here's a few links by someone who has done clutchless:
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/4429/cl3.htm
Also, Bob Batson at EV-America.com does clutchless adapters and has a short
paper on his view of clutch vs. clutchless.
Bill Dennis
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What I was wondering is I've read over the years that some people remove
the clutch entirely and most EV converters leave the clutch. Could someone
tell me very briefly or point to a good source as
to the Pros and Cons and going clutch-less.
thanks all for the amazing information on this list.
I would bet that you will get plenty of pros and cons here :^D
Someone else will likely post a long list of all the perceived pluses and
minuses.
I am just going to say that I personally would never convert one without a
clutch, the biggest reason being safety concerns.
And... IMHO I see doing a conversion without a clutch as being just plain
lame.
Flame shield is in place and no, it is unlikely I will be responding to this
thread much.
.
Roy LeMeur
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
...............Would this pump motor be any better or worse than any other
series wound motor? .....................
A motor with only 2 terminals means you've got a pump motor and it
will only run one direction. Unless it's a permanent magnet motor,
it won't reverse when you switch the "A" and "F" posts......... Jim
Husted
Lawrence, I've never tried this myself, but looking at motor theory, this
motor will not work well in a variable voltage/speed traction application
unless you separate the field circuit from the armature and power it
separately. You want full field current at startup to keep the motor
current and speed down and controlled. What will happen if the field is
left hardwired to the armature? When you start at reduced voltage with a
PWM controller, the field will also have a reduced voltage, therefore low
current and low field strength. This makes the motor draw a lot more
current in its attempt to go faster to produce the back EMF needed to
balance armature voltage. Better to have a separately powered field at full
voltage on startup. Only after the armature voltage is at maximum should
the field voltage be reduced, if necessary, to drive the motor faster.
However, if you plan on using the motor with a simple on/off switch
controller, the field will have full voltage, and the motor will be ok, but
starts from a dead stop could be jerky.
Also, if you leave the field connected to the armature and try to run the
motor at higher voltage, like 48 or 72, the field will see the same voltage,
pull twice or three times as much current, and probably burn up. There is
no back EMF to limit current in the field circuit. Mark T.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver said:
> Bad news is that underhood spacing is very tight. I didn't have a tape
> but a 9" motor may not fit between the frame rail and the tranny face.
> The raked front grill means the top accessible area is about 2 x 1.5
> feet. The engine probably can only be removed from the bottom.
If there ends up being enough space for an 8" motor but not long enough
for a 9", this may be a good opportunity to offer Netgain's new short 9"
motor as an option. It has the same length as an 8" but offers a little
more torque.
The engine removal problem may be a difficult one to deal with though, in
terms of producing a viable do-it-yourself kit. Hopefully after removing
the panels around the front and sides, the engine might be able to lift
out.
One thing's for sure though... it looks like there's almost no room at
all for batteries in front. It's a good thing that the rear wheels are so
far back, as most of the batteries mounted in the rear will still be in
front of them.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod likes to beat up on me with 2X the amps and 2x the volts.
I have not gotten much time on Goldie so far this year....
Sigh!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
> I heard a rumor that a yellow roadster might come gunning fof Goldie at
> Wood Burn.
> F.T.
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Date: 6/5/2005 12:20:00 PM
> > Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:47 PM
> > Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
> >
> >
> > > Without getting into another pissing match I will just state that I
will
> > > stand by my decisions and designs and just repeat what Dennis Berube
> says:
> > > "The truth is in the time slips." I will also stand on my world
records.
> > > Instead of talking Rich, why don't you just see if you can get Goldie
> into
> > > the 14s at Woodburn.
> > >
> > > Roderick Wilde
> > > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> > > www.suckamps.com
> > >
> >
> > Oh Sorry Rod
> > Both my EVs still run.
> > And I am offering to take GP into the 14s and lower...If you let me.
> >
> >
> >
> > Madman
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can stop by if John doesn't mind.
Any particular plans?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
We will be passing through Portland around 5 pm on Sunday June 12 and plan
to participate in the EV dinner mentioned previously. We'll stop by John
Wayland's house to see who else might be ready to get together. See some
of you there!
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Richard,
Richard Bebbington wrote:
Hi everyone,
This is one for those who are using Siemens systems:
I'm trying to get an old laptop to load and run SIADIS
so can try communicating with my inverter, but not
being a DOS guy, I'm having trouble getting the right
DOS environment going to make SIADIS happy.
Specifically, I can get the laptop to boot from a DOS
floppy, with himem.sys and emm386.exe loaded (I think)
I think it's something to do with expanded memory.
Can anyone give me autoexec.bat and config.sys files
that are known to work with SIADIS, so I can see where
I'm going wrong?
RTFM ("F" stands for "fine" :-) )
Siadis WILL NOT work if you boot from floppy.
You use floppy to copy siadis files to a directory.
Boot to Windows, exit to DOS prompt and try.
This does not guarantee it to work as windows
may or may not release the com port, depends on
how it is configured. Boot to DOS straight is clean way.
I don't need anything fancy, just floppy
access and the right memory environment.
I'm using an Acer Travelmate 212 laptop (an old celeron CPU)
Man, I **HATE** MSDOS...
Others hate Linux too, while yet others are absolutely
thrilled about it. You only hate DOS (any OS for that matter)
because you don't know how to accomplish something and things
don't work as you want, and there is no help.
See above for fix.
I hope you do you use ISO->RS232 converter!
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I hate to admit it but I bought a 2001 PT as a pre-order and I paid $25K
for the honor.... :-) Mine's got 70K miles on it and I plan on
converting it to EV eventually.....
So, I'm all for it.
--Tony McCormick
A new PT Cruiser:
Standard Base: $13,622
Standard w/power: $15,500
Convertible Base: $19,700
Convertible w/Power options (Touring Edition): $23,000
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
And a bigger two by four :-)
Roderick
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 10:23 AM
Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
Rod likes to beat up on me with 2X the amps and 2x the volts.
I have not gotten much time on Goldie so far this year....
Sigh!
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 06, 2005 6:23 AM
Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
I heard a rumor that a yellow roadster might come gunning fof Goldie at
Wood Burn.
F.T.
> [Original Message]
> From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 6/5/2005 12:20:00 PM
> Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 6:47 PM
> Subject: Re: The Discovery EV program
>
>
> > Without getting into another pissing match I will just state that I
will
> > stand by my decisions and designs and just repeat what Dennis Berube
says:
> > "The truth is in the time slips." I will also stand on my world
records.
> > Instead of talking Rich, why don't you just see if you can get Goldie
into
> > the 14s at Woodburn.
> >
> > Roderick Wilde
> > "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> > www.suckamps.com
> >
>
> Oh Sorry Rod
> Both my EVs still run.
> And I am offering to take GP into the 14s and lower...If you let me.
>
>
>
> Madman
--
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--- Begin Message ---
Roy LeMeur wrote:
And... IMHO I see doing a conversion without a clutch as being just
plain lame.
Flame shield is in place and no, it is unlikely I will be responding to
this thread much.
Roy, no problem, no flames.
Opinion with no data attached is, well, just an opinion.
Conversion without clutch makes good sense for specific
circumstances. It is always desired to reduce rotating mass
and the rate of RPM increase/decrease changes in 3rd power
with this mass (you'd need 8x of torque to spin up
to rhe same RPM in the same time a flywheel which is
only 2x as heavy).
For a DC system which has safety issue with controller
die short and motors running at lower RPM, going
clutchless is indeed problematic solution.
For AC systems capable of >10k RPM thus covering entire
range of speeds in one gear (as ACRX for example) and no
concerns about failing full on, going clutchless may make
perfect sense. Clutchless EV1 should be good example for you.
Also, no clutch - no inertia of high rotating mass (yes,
the rotor is still there but only about as half
as the contributor) - easier to shift if you really
want/have to.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
It is easier to see than talk about, I happen tamake a few
photos so I can insert links to them to illustrate what Jukka
is talking about:
Jukka J�rvinen wrote:
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I have put my home up for sale in Jerome, Arizona to finance my move
to Croatia to open a European distribution center for EV Parts.
Now I'm completing the "unnamed" motorcycle with 100 kg Lions, 2x 6,7
ADC + 1K Zilla. 100 kW battery power ;B (EV GRIN)
It is this one:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn2959.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn2970.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn2971.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn2972.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn3006.jpg
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn3005.jpg
I bought motors and
Zilla from you. Victor was a middle man from MME since I do not use Visa.
Good for you - you can't spend too much then :-)
We equipped also a electric moto (http://www.e-mx.net/) with 50 AH Lions
(the manufacturing company of this bike is in Portland, Oregon). Now it
really flies. It took several kilos of the weight and power is awesome.
It is this one:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/bms/dscn2973.jpg
I've been looking a chance to make a good dragster with thise 5000 F
caps and Lions I showed to you last year in Woodburn. (I still sometimes
take look ot the pics where you give me a ride in the "golf cart")
Those carts are quite expencive in here and hard to get. Golfing season
is only 5 months in year in here. DO you have any extra sitting
somewhere ? I would love to fit a Zilla and Lions in there.... You can
actually have them street legal in here. Law is that it should not go
over 45 km/h. Law does not state that how FAST it can go to this speed.
like in 1/4 second....
If there is something I can do to help getting in Finnish, Swedish,
Norwegian or Estonian markets let me know. I can communicate with these
folks with their own native language if necessary.
Regards
Jukka J�rvinen
R&D Director
www.fevt.com
p.s.- It would be fun to see how your humor gets in Finnish skulls.... I
wish GP could hit Finnish DragStrips somaday. (Finnish teams are highly
rated in EU. Drag racing has a good foot hold in here.)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Good news. All the parts were still on the forklift Monday morning. A
plate I lossened up Saturday fell off exposing another pump motor. It
is1/2 kw also 23v Probably good for a scooter. Now for the jackpot. .I
loosened one motor and then tipped it over for access with the mighty
Electravan's granny gear.. Out came two four wire 2.4KW at the 60 minute
rate stout motors. A bit bigger around than and ADC 8 inch but a little
shorter. The two of them aught to make something go fast. I'm not sure if
they are over kill for a VW bug. The reductions sure are. 5 honkin bolts
hold these things to the unsprung frame of the forklift. I'm sure these
would hold up under dragracing conditions. I would like to mount these on a
plate and tuck them up above the axles of a rear motor bug. I'd have to
machine them to accept sprockets but they are very strong. The wires are
marked as I remember ASBF but they are sort of smallish. About 6AGW. So a
happy ending to the stolen forklift story. 100 feet of cable, potbox, meter
& four possible EV motors. Lawrence Rhodes.....
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> I hope you do you use ISO->RS232 converter!
That reminds me. I just finished building yet another isolated RS-232
converter, to isolate an E-meter's RS-232 output so it can be connected
to a laptop or other non-isolated PC. This is probably the 5th or 6th
one I've made.
Yes, I know there are commercial isolators; but they are often very
expensive, overly complex (way more channels than needed), require a 12v
power supply (yet another thing to run down your 12v accessory battery,
and not built for use in a car (not sealed, designed for room
temperature environment).
In the past, I used a Datel BWR-series 3w DC/DC converter to provide the
+/-12v needed for an RS-232 interface (the same ones sold by Cruising
Equipment / Heart Interface / Xantrex for isolated 12v power for the
E-meter). It was a high quality part, efficient, built for the
environment, etc.
So, I ordered one again. I discovered that a) Datel has been bought up
by C&D Power, b) most of their support staff is gone, c) they've
replaced it with the BST series, d) it is made in China, and e) though
it sells for the same price, it is now cheap junk with inferior
performance and specs. For example, the old part used 10ma at 12vdc;
this one uses 25ma; the old part passed a 1500v hipot; the new one only
1000v.
So, I've been tinkering. I designed an RS-232 isolator that is smaller
and cheaper, and "self powered" by the serial data input so it doesn't
need any external power source. I'm thinking of running off a small
batch of them for my own use, and wondered if anyone else might be
interested?
Basic specs:
- one RS-232 channel, one direction
- >1500v isolation
- input; +/-5v minumum RS-232 logic level swing into a 1k ohm load
(for reference, the E-meter delivers +/-7v into a 1k load)
- output; +/-3v minimum RS-232 logic level swing into a 3k load
(for reference, that's the minimum voltage and load resistance
spec for the RS-232 standard; most devices are less)
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
Stu,
Hindsight is always 20/20
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu and Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 03, 2005 6:32 PM
Subject: The Discovery EV program
> I thank the EV list for the heads up about the program.
>
>
>
> My impressions:
>
>
>
> The drive belts were a joke. The belts used in the Choppers are much
> beefier.
>
>
>
> The guys were more concerned about the paint job then they were about the
> drive reliability.
>
>
>
> They forgot to tighten 'a' set screw? What is that all about? For high
> torque, there should have been at least 2 set screws at 90 degrees to each
> other.
>
>
>
> On the positive side, they had many good ideas, good hands, good machine
and
> welding.
>
>
>
>
>
> The Woodruff key looked about the size of the key in my 4 hp 36v/80 amp
> floor scrubber motor.
>
>
>
> Way undersized.
>
>
>
> If they had done well at the track, the paint or lack thereof would have
> been ignored.
>
>
>
> The batteries and the Zilla were awesome. They did their homework. They
> logged the battery voltages upon delivery, etc. The charger and the
> charging meter seemed first class. No details were given.
>
>
>
> The batteries/motor/wiring/controller all looked good to my novice eyes.
>
>
>
> (Anyone recognize the motors?)
>
>
>
> Back to paint. They 'needed' the paint the under vehicle motors in a
tight
> schedule project?
>
>
>
> IMHO Vanity was the root of failure for this project.
>
>
>
> I am interested in other opinions about the show.
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Jim and All,
> >
> > Hi Jim and All,
> > I'm planning on putting 2 D+D 6.7"
> motors,
> > same as the ADC A89, nose to nose and was
> wondering
> > how to match them for my new production EV. They
> will
> > run in series/parallel direct drive with a
> Alltrak's
> > 450 amp controller.
> > First to see if they are matched
> could I
> > run them in series while hooked together and see
> if
> > they take the same voltage?
I guess I should do this under load like while
driving?
> > Or run them seperately and note the
> amps?
> > Or other method?
> > I assume I should run then 5-10 hrs
> on
> > 12vdc to break them in? Would that be enough?
> > And if they don't match, how should
> I
> > match them? Shimming the poles? Timing the
> brushes?
> > Ect? Easiest way possible would be nice.
> > These are '36vdc' motors running on
> > 72vdc so I'm wondering should they be advanced
> timing
> > wise or worthwhile or is neutural ok?
> > Eff and long life is the main focus
> > here.
> > Jim, your posts have been very
> > interesting,
> > Thanks,
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> >
> >
> >My imput is that OEM they should be just fine.
> With Wayland every
> nano second counts so I want the motors tuned
> perfect. Advancing the
> timing is proven by John's motors and I would take
> his advise. You
To blow things up? ;-))
So other motor guru's, do I need advancing at
72vdc on a D+D 6.7" at 72vdc and answers to the
questions above? Suggestions?
Thanks Joe for your's.
> might not need 12 degrees but you might want some
> advancment. If you
> do decide to advance just try to get them as even as
> possible. As
> I've got no tried and true motors yet to be driven
> (HARD) I'd listen
> to the masters, for now hehehe.
> Whats D+D??
D+D use to be ADC but they sold their bigger motor
designs + ? to another company along with the name.
Now they just make 6.7" motors at very good prices.
2 of them, the A89 size one, make more torque and
better cooling at a lower cost than an 8" ADC's or
longer 6.7's.
They also turn high RPM at 72vdc to give good high
speed torque, cont duty at 75mph for hrs at a time I
need in my lightweight, aero EV. It will use a built
in gasoline generator for long distance work.
> Thanks to all
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
> 541-548-6140
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
hi_torque_electric wrote:
> About aluminum housings
> Furthermore I did once build an all aluminum aircraft starter 20
> years ago that was made of all aluminum except for the armature body,
> pole shoes, and shaft. So you can make a motor with an aluminum
> housing. Motor looked a 100 pounds weighed about 30
If the 13" motor as it is weighs 350 lbs, about how much would you
guess it would weigh if it had an aluminum housing?
http://www.cloudelectric.com/item.jhtml?&PRID=1520510
Any guess as to how much Netgains 15" motor weighs?
What real world application are these 13" and 15" motors currently found in?
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--- Begin Message ---
Opinion with no data attached is, well, just an opinion.
Conversion without clutch makes good sense for specific
circumstances. It is always desired to reduce rotating mass
and the rate of RPM increase/decrease changes in 3rd power
with this mass (you'd need 8x of torque to spin up
to rhe same RPM in the same time a flywheel which is
only 2x as heavy).
No. The relationship between torque and inertia ( for the same angular
acceleration) is linear. So, it takes exactly twice the torque to spin up (
to the same RPM in the same time) a flywheel that is twice as heavy. ( and,
the same diameter).
Of course, that is only if the car is not in gear ( or, the clutch is not
engaged). And, what difference does is make how fast the motor spins up in
that case?? If the car is in gear, the inertia of the flywheel is swamped by
the inertia of the car, so the flywheel mass and inertia will only make a
very slight difference in the necessary torque to spin up the motor ( and,
accelerate the car).
I think it makes sense to keep the clutch - just my opinion.
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
Lee Hart wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I hope you do you use ISO->RS232 converter!
That reminds me. I just finished building yet another isolated RS-232
converter, to isolate an E-meter's RS-232 output so it can be connected
to a laptop or other non-isolated PC. This is probably the 5th or 6th
one I've made.
...
Basic specs:
...
By all means do it if others have need for it.
In this particular case:
a) Richard has this converter as a part of his purchase, so "for free"
b) iti s not simple RS232-isolator, it is ISOxxx(OBD2) <-> RS232
converter/translator having L, K lines and other stuff not related
to RS232.
Just an isolator will not work with Simotion inverter.
So I suppose your message/offer had nothing to do with
SIADIS in subject or Richard's problem.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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