EV Digest 4422
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: More SIADIS questions...(slightly OT)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Zapi Controler 120v with Regen
by brian baumel <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Power of DC Charging
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: alternator as motor
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Monster Garage does a golfcart?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Gadget's EV show?
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) V2G - is not OT ...is it ?
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: V2G - is not OT ...is it ?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Fwd: Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?, Safety Configuration
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Taming the wild Curtis controller
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) ProEV Electric Imp to autocross this weekend
by "ProEV" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Taming the wild Curtis controller
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Taming the wild Curtis controller
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: ProEV Electric Imp to autocross this weekend
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Taming the wild Curtis controller
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: EM kit revisited (was: RE: Amp Head, Heads Up)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: 15 inch motor? (i.e. Netgain)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: More SIADIS questions...(slightly OT)
by Richard Bebbington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Geez, you guys have no respect to your time.
Get a $40 386 based laptop off ebay with DOS on ot only,
and you're DONE. Forget about linux stuff for this case.
I have dedicated computers like that to do some tasks.
Make this laptop a dedicated tool for the system, like
emeter. You wouldn't try to make emeter also run Linux,
would you? So treat this laptop as dedicated instrument
as well - no other functions/OSes on it.
Making one $40 computer to do everything is perhaps
doable if I invest $4000 of my (or someone else's)
time to figure out how.
If your time worth nothing or you just love tinkering,
this is different, but I thought Richard is interested
in the result, not the process.
Victor
Lightning Ryan wrote:
Here's some handy tricks...
To capture an existing master boot record and it's bootloader use
dd if=/dev/hda of=bootsect.xyz bs=512 count=1
From Linux, the resulting bootsect.xyz is your bootrecord file which
you can point to with boot.ini from a win9x/nt/2000/xp installation.
Dos doesn't have any multi-boot options, but there is a ?loadlinux?
thingee which will bootstrap and load linux once inside dos, haven't
used this utility since early slackware so I may have the name wrong.
Use fdisk /mbr to flush the boot record from dos.
Your linux bootloader can also be pointed to
/dev/hda1 (first primary partition) or /dev/hda2 (second primary), etc.
This is how you multi-boot from linux with lilo or grub, I think
you can also use the bootsect.xyz stuff in linux, but I'm not sure.
The dd trick can be used to capture any partitions boot records
by replacing /dev/hda with /dev/hda1 ,2,3,4,etc or for a slave drive
use /dev/hdb, secondary-master /dev/hdc, secondary-slave /dev/hdd.
Unfortunently dos/windows doesn't have as simple a naming convencion
for it's disk drives, and is incapable of creating multiple primary
partitions other than an extended and subsiquent logical partitions.
And it's boot order is sorty odd, first comes each drives primary
partition, then comes extended/logical partitions, anyway....
L8r
Ryan
Richard Bebbington wrote:
Hi Don,
Not at all OT!
DOS version 6.2
<snip>
Thanks for posting those!
I tried paring mine down to match yours, one entry at a time,
but no joy. Looks like Siadis just doesn't like floppies.
So now I've put DOS onto a partition on the laptop,
but the old Linux bootloader is still there.
Even though I used DOS's fdisk to do the partitions
(and make the DOS one bootable), and formatted the new DOS partition,
AND used the SYS c: command to transfer the system files, it still didn't
sort out the low-level bootloader!
Grrrrr...
So now I'm re-installing Mandrake, but leaving the new
DOS partition alone. With any luck, this will sort it
out so it can multi-boot, into either DOS or Linux.
Ugh. What a fight... ( it's been one of THOSE days )
Regards
Richard Bebbington
electric Mini pickup
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am currently using a 120V zapi w/ regen in my
conversion. the darn thing still isnt complete but I
have taken it around the block a few times. I am using
a string of 10 alpha cells on a VW kit car (bradley
GTII). I'd be happy to answer any questions that I
can...
Brian
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Here's a link to a very nicely done website about a
> conversion using a Zapi
> regen controller. At least, he tried to use a Zapi.
> Several times. He
> finally gave up and got a Curtis.
>
> Phil
>
>
> http://convert.jerryrig.com/step38.html
>
>
>
>
> >From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [email protected]
> >To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List"
> <[email protected]>,
> ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "SFEVA"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Zapi Controler 120v with Regen
> >Date: Wed, 8 Jun 2005 09:42:59 -0700
> >
> >I'm considering doing a VW bug conversion with 10
> big Optimas for added
> >range at 120v with a Zapi Controller. I was told
> it works with 4 terminal
> >motors only. I am assuming that is a series motor.
> So instead of a buss
> >bar across two connections those connections are
> used. Has anyone used a
> >Zapi controller with regen with good success? In
> hilly San
> >Francisco.....Lawrence Rhodes........
> >Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> >Reedmaker
> >Book 4/5 doubler
> >Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >415-821-3519
> >
>
>
_________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger!
> Download today - it's FREE!
>
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
>
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought Advanced DC ship their motors in Neutral position, *not* timing
advanced?
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:03 PM
Subject: Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
> STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> >
> > Just checking on this , running an stock advanced motor / like a net
gain ,
> > or adc in reverse to give the car a reverse is ok at low speed ?
>
> Correct. With the brushes advanced for best operation in forward, they
> will arc more in reverse. But you won't be going fast enough or long
> enough to matter.
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chip....
ya know about aweek ago some fool should have shipped you the NEDRA Spider
box.
I have it at the shop.
So do we need to ship it, or is it too late?
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chip Gribben" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 8:57 PM
Subject: Power of DC Charging
> For those going to the race can you let me know if you have particular
> charging requirements and the type of outlet you will need.
>
> I need to make sure we have that taken care of.
>
> Thanks
>
> Chip
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had limited sucess read it worked, but not very well.
A guy in Portland used a late 80s Ford alternator, and has a go cart that
would rip your head off.
I don't think he's on the list but some that are might now his name.
As I recall with a encoder, and a BLDC drive you can get some pretty good
power. But it also depends on the quality of the lams and the magnetic field
strength.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 7:42 AM
Subject: alternator as motor
> Hello all,
> I remember someone (Rich Rudman possibly?) mentioning an experiment
> where a car alternator was driven as a motor, using a BLDC drive.
> I'd like to know how "good" was the resulting motor, in terms of power
> and efficiency. Basically, is it a good idea?
>
> I'm interested from a mild-hybrid angle so hopefully this is not
> totally off-topic.
>
> Thanks
> Evan.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yea I find it has been "HollywoodIzed"
fights and emotion.... I wanna see the tools and the skill that makes
this stuff.
But take it from a "Reality show Orphan" was this the line the Rev Gadget
used???
They are more interested in Rod and I threatening to use each other as load
banks than the nuts and bolts of how to Stuff a custom drive train into a
chassis.
They are making bucks and just want to make more.
Most of the weekend warriors and wrench twisters out in Cable TV land are
walking away from MG and AC. They need to get back to the nuts and
Bolts of what they think they have.
On the other hand the Extreme Home Makeover is a Real Made for TV tear
jerker... and it's well done.
And now days they have the " How we did that" on the next day or just after
the main show. The Girls like the tear jerkers.. the Guys like the tricks on
the Mortise and Tennon Joints and how to lay down a REAL tile floor for less
than a 50 Grand.
Since I was in Gone Postal, and the Kingston Washington Extreme home make
over was staged on the same site as my production shop....
I have some interesting views on all the local drama here in Kingston as to
who got the house, what the contractors knew and when they knew it.
The funny face of the security guards when this Gold and rust Fiesta came
flying at him on a dark night... I had to get through security just to get
to my shop.
The millions of bucks of polished and new materials hauling equipment that
spent a week parked outside of my building.... the lights that were.... put
up
in about 4 hours notice by my wife's electric company.... Search lights...
are less powerful...
You don't need a gut wrenching script to make real drama in the
construction seam. The real story is pretty darn good for most of us.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 8:43 AM
Subject: Re: Monster Garage does a golfcart?
> Am I the only one who finds that show mostly annoying? That announcer
> they got ... yeesh. Both Monster Garage and American Chopper need less
> gab, and more fab(rication). AC is pretty much a soap opera ...
>
> Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
>
> > http://www.htelectricmotors.com/news091704.htm I stumbled upon this
> > while surfing.
> > Lawrence Rhodes
> > Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> > Reedmaker
> > Book 4/5 doubler
> > Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > 415-821-3519
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rod,
I agree with you that 4WD cars just 'beg' for a hybrid electric motor rear.
If the 1995 Subaru Impreza weighed 1,620lb as a 1990 Geo Metro instead of
its 2,605lb, I would not think twice. (I wonder what the lightest 4WD car
is?)
When it comes to real estate, the most important word is 'Location'. IMHO
the most important word for an EV is 'Weight'. I cannot imagine starting
any EV project with a 1,000lb handicap.
Let's think a little outside the box. Consider a spring loaded 5th wheel
drive, like an outboard motor, mounted between the rear wheels of a Metro.
Not too much added weight, etc.
When do we start?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roderick Wilde
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 12:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
Stu, Although this would be possible, as most anything mechanical is, I
would tend to wonder why on earth someone would undertake the time and
expense to do such a project. The engineering of the rear drive alone would
be extensive as well as adding a great deal of expense. When you are done
you still have a Geo Metro. This is not one of the most exciting cars on the
road. A much more practical approach would be to take an all wheel drive
Subaru and remove the real drive line. Attach your motor to the differential
through an engage and disengage gear box. The rear diff is already there. No
re-engineering from a straight axle to a rear drive . Been there, done that,
it is not an easy undertaking! This would produce a much more practical and
affordable hybrid in my opinion. If you want to run gas only you can, if
electric only, just throw the front tranny in neutral. If you want both you
have a high performance all wheel drive car.
Roderick
Roderick Wilde, President, EV Parts Inc.
Your Online EV Superstore
www.evparts.com
1-360-385-7082
Phone: 360-582-1270 Fax: 360-582-1272
PO Box 834, Carlsborg, WA 98324
108-B Business Park Loop, Sequim, WA 98382
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:51 AM
Subject: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
> Using a ~1600lb ICE automobile like a Geo Metro, Power a rear wheel or
> both
> wheels with a motor, batteries in trunk.
>
>
>
> Has this been done?
>
>
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
> Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 6/7/2005
>
>
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.6.5 - Release Date: 6/7/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris,
IMHO regen is a waste because there is too little power gained from braking.
Without regen, you have a 3 cyl engine in front giving about 40mpg and if
500lb of battery/motor will be sufficient, you have a 2 or possibly a 4
seater ~2,000lb hybrid.
Another possibility is to place a whopping alternator on the engine that is
energized when braking. Pushing amps into the batteries should slow you
down and it would be a 'regen' brake-saving system.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
This is called a "through-the-road" hybrid. Chrysler had proposed a
hybrid version of the Sebring that would work this way.
The problem is that you really want your motor doing regen in a hybrid
vehicle, and I think you really want it doing that in front, not in back,
to take advantage of weight transfer during braking. Most through-the-road
hybrid concept vehicles (including Chrysler's hybrid Durango concept) have
the ICE powering the rear wheels and the electric motor powering the
front.
But for grins, it would be fun to make a simple hybrid this way. I thought
about doing it with my Integra, before I lost my mind and decided on
building a hotrod...
--chris
Stu or Jan said:
> Using a ~1600lb ICE automobile like a Geo Metro, Power a rear wheel or
> both
> wheels with a motor, batteries in trunk.
>
>
>
> Has this been done?
>
>
>
>
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
AvDC's nuetral may or may not be a real nuetral. I have seen some motors
that the nuetral is 5 advanced.
If you really want to know measure it and then mark the case with a cold
chizzel.
Like I did to the motors on Gp.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 11:33 AM
Subject: Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
> I thought Advanced DC ship their motors in Neutral position, *not* timing
> advanced?
> Mark
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:03 PM
> Subject: Re: reverse with an advanced timed motor
>
>
> > STEVE CLUNN wrote:
> > >
> > > Just checking on this , running an stock advanced motor / like a net
> gain ,
> > > or adc in reverse to give the car a reverse is ok at low speed ?
> >
> > Correct. With the brushes advanced for best operation in forward, they
> > will arc more in reverse. But you won't be going fast enough or long
> > enough to matter.
> > --
> > Ring the bells that you can ring
> > Forget your perfect offering
> > There is a crack in everything
> > That's how the light gets in
> > -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> > --
> > Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:15:55 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Lee Hart wrote:
>
>> Testing batteries based on voltage or internal resistance is a bit like
>> asking whether the king's nose or his thumb is a better standard for
>> measuring inches -- NEITHER is a precise or accurate measurement
>> standard.
>
>I love that analogy! Switch to metric - no King noses or thumbs involved.
Ya, then you get to deal with another set of arbitrarily selected
values. Only this time the numbers are hard to remember (how many
wavelengths to a meter? How 'bout them two scratches on the standard
meter before that?), unwieldy, require scientific notation to express
common everyday units (pascals, siemens, grays), change every so often
at the whim of those crazy french types(CGI?, MKS?, SI?,
SI-2005?,????). In return in this country one gets to deal with two
sets of tools, two sets of fasteners, two sets of taps and dies and
the PITA of keeping them separate.
About the only advantage I can see for the metric system is that it
lets semi-math-literate liberal arts types change units without having
to do any math. Of course few of them actually do any math involving
measurements....
John, who grew up metric and didn't have an English tool until after
college.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BoyntonStu said:
If the 1995 Subaru Impreza weighed 1,620lb as a 1990 Geo Metro instead of
its 2,605lb, I would not think twice. (I wonder what the lightest 4WD car
is?)
My father has a small four wheel drive vehicle with 12 inch tyres and a
Crosley ICE engine. It weighs somewhere around 1700 lbs, but has the
aerodynamics of an outhouse.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
Chris,
IMHO regen is a waste because there is too little power gained from braking.
Up to 18% in city is my best personal experience. (6.8Ah out, 1.2Ah in).
Yes, 0% on a freeway.
Another possibility is to place a whopping alternator on the engine that is
energized when braking. Pushing amps into the batteries should slow you
down and it would be a 'regen' brake-saving system.
BoyntonStu
Regen and plug braking are two different things.
First one saves pads AND gets energy back.
Second one also saves pads but wastes battery energy
spent to accelerate before braking.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Be fair Impreza isn't the Metro of 4WD.. Subaru Justy. I think in fact there
was one where someone hacked an electric motor into the rear and had batteries
with the trunk for accelleration purposes only though.
I just checked and when originally released around '85 the base model was 1410
lbs.
http://www.subaru-global.com/about/history/1984-001.html
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BoyntonStu said:
If the 1995 Subaru Impreza weighed 1,620lb as a 1990 Geo Metro instead of
its 2,605lb, I would not think twice. (I wonder what the lightest 4WD car
is?)
My father has a small four wheel drive vehicle with 12 inch tyres and a
Crosley ICE engine. It weighs somewhere around 1700 lbs, but has the
aerodynamics of an outhouse.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It was academic suggestion - too many English systems diehards.
Let's not go there - it will only be flames. Everyone knows
cons and pros and make own choices. Personally - I don't care.
Neon John wrote:
Ya, then you get to deal with another set of arbitrarily selected
values. Only this time the numbers are hard to remember (how many
wavelengths to a meter? How 'bout them two scratches on the standard
blah blah
What a bunch of idiots then lives in all Europe, Japan, everywhere on
the planet except in ONLY USA, where the only convenient system is
used but the world just don't get it to adopt!
This pointless discussion isn't going to change anyone's mind John -
been there on this very list. Thus I'm NOT replying.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What is the name of Gadget's show? I am very familiar with BIG (which I
think is not airing any more), but what is the "new" show where he is
building EVs?? I've heard about it for months now, but have yet to see a
name.
I really don't watch television anymore, so knowing the specifics would
really help me find it for recording. I've asked this twice before, but
never received an answer to date. Someone want to lend me a clue on this
one? 8^)
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:21:02 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>It was academic suggestion - too many English systems diehards.
>Let's not go there - it will only be flames. Everyone knows
>cons and pros and make own choices. Personally - I don't care.
Aw, lighten up, Victor. Being conversant in both systems, I don't
care either and my comments were made with my tongue firmly against my
cheek. What I AM opposed to is arbitrary changes for no benefit,
particularly those done on theological grounds.
Besides, it's so much fun to poke at zealots of all sorts :-)
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
After wading thru (seemingly) hundreds of e-mails on "Welding" for weeks
and weeks..and other important EV related topics, I thought that this
conference on V2G and my brief comments would at least generate one or
two replies, or comments....
....But to date ..... nothing !
Afterall... 95% of all information had to do with Electric Vehicles !
3% on Climate degredation. 2% on how silly H2 and Fool cells are....
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:10:10 -0700, Steven Lough
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>After wading thru (seemingly) hundreds of e-mails on "Welding" for weeks
>and weeks..and other important EV related topics, I thought that this
>conference on V2G and my brief comments would at least generate one or
>two replies, or comments....
>
> ....But to date ..... nothing !
>
>Afterall... 95% of all information had to do with Electric Vehicles !
>3% on Climate degredation. 2% on how silly H2 and Fool cells are....
I don't know what V2G is (must have missed that one) but judging from
your last sentence, I imagine the lack of response is because everyone
has been doing such an admirable job of late of keeping political
discussions off the list.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> AvDC's nuetral may or may not be a real nuetral. I have seen some motors
> that the nuetral is 5 advanced.
> If you really want to know measure it and then mark the case with a cold
> chizzel.
> Like I did to the motors on Gp.
>
I saw you setting up the motors on GP, that's what made me think about it. How
do you determine
neutral? Is it just a matter of relocating the brush end to the next set of
holes? Is 5 degrees a
good general setting for all motors that aren't going to reverse? Does someone
know of a link or
document about this?
<RANT>
I know some will say "look in the archive", but going through the Yahoo archive
is like pulling
teeth. When you do a search it just brings you to the first digest email (a
whole days worth of
postings in one file) and then you have scroll through it to find anything.
It's a little easier
if you cut all 500+ lines and paste them in a text editor for searching. No way
to follow threads,
no way to jump to the next hit. I'm not interested in changing the format of
the list, I'm just
looking for a reasonable means to search the archives. Does anyone know of a
better facility?
</RANT>
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Yes, Yes. All my EV's (since the 70's) have had an engage contactor that
is
> connected to a physical microswitch on the pot-box (and I also include a
> bypass in case the controller opens up when a Mack truck is following you
on
> the freeway). Your first reaction (I've had both clutch and clutchless)
> when something happens is to pop your foot off the accelerator peddle
> (especially if others might drive your vehicle an engage contactor is
> required). I worked for GE-EV when they were into EV's and this should be
a
> required safety feature from the failure modes I've seen over the years.
> BTW, I had to put a throttle blipper button (back in the late 90's) on my
> clutchless Geo tracker I drive to work so I could downshift clutchless,
> blips the throttle to 1400rpm's to allow downshifting, tied into my uP
> (MC68HC908QY4) microprocessor on the IGBT controller I made.
> have a nice day, Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 3:04 AM
> Subject: Re: Pros and Cons of clutch-less?
>
>
> > On 6 Jun 2005 at 20:34, Jeff Shanab wrote:
> >
> > > Should we EV'rs get in that habit? Clutched or clutchless, at a stop,
> pull
> > > it out of gear!
> >
> > I know some here disagree - they don't like the clack-clack noise - but
I
> > think a DC ev should have at least one contactor that opens when the
brake
> > is depressed and/or the accelerator is released. If just one of these,
> the
> > latter is preferable.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Assistant Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> > send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have any suggestions for taming down the initial lurch
when backing up? The controller is a 1231, motor is a 9"ADC, and
currently is running on 108volts. The problem is only going to get
worse when the 144v pack is installed. Car is a Escort wagon running
a clutched 5 speed.
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Everybody,
We are getting ready for another Autocross at Hialeah Park this weekend. To
celebrate, we have managed to post the write up from our autocross back in
March!
March Madness Autocross
Today's autocross is going to be run in a parking lot at Homestead
/Miami Speedway. This is 15 miles from the race shop. We decide to try and
drive to the site, make our runs and drive home without charging. This will
require a strong, balanced battery pack.
The hardware and software of our battery management system is
evolving. Now, at the end of a normal charge, we can individually boost the
lowest cells to try and bring all batteries to the same state of charge. The
limitations are we can only trickle charge at an amp or two and we need to
specify manually which battery to charge. Because of these limitations, we
do not have the cells as closely balanced as we would like.
There is .33 volts between the highest cell (#9) and the lowest cell
(#39). We estimate that this is the difference of 30% in their state of
charge.
The trip to the track is mainly 45 MPH back roads. We use 226
watt-hrs per mile. In theory, our pack contains 22.7 Kw-hrs. At this rate
our range is 100 miles. But not today!
At the track, we adjust the spring seats to lower the car and bolt
on the race wheels. The car is inspected and we are cleared to race.
The rest of the write up including pictures and video is at
http://www.proev.com/RRptPgs/R050002X.htm
Enjoy
Cliff
www.ProEv.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One method is to use a relay, energized by the backup light circuit, to
switch either a capacitor or a resistor into the potbox circuit, thereby
changing either the acceleration rate or the max throttle, respectively.
(I don't remember exact hookup details at the moment, i.e. whether
hookup was in series or parallel with the pot....)
Side note: Be careful that you don't accidentally connect the potbox
wires to the HV pack. I fried a Cursit this way, when one of the wires
is was using to hook up the reverse relay brushed against the motor case
on the previously-converted EV I bought. The original owners had shorted
one of the motor leads to the motor case by using the wrong washers
(brass instead of fibre) on one of the motor terminals. Expensive lesson
learned: First thing to check when buying a conversion is that the HV
pack is isolated from the frame.
hth,
Andrew
Gnat wrote:
Does anyone have any suggestions for taming down the initial lurch
when backing up? The controller is a 1231, motor is a 9"ADC, and
currently is running on 108volts. The problem is only going to get
worse when the 144v pack is installed. Car is a Escort wagon running
a clutched 5 speed.
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> IMHO regen is a waste because there is too little power
> gained from braking.
Reports indicate that in the real world regen can increase the range by
10% or more. This may not sound like a lot, but when you consider the
weight/cost of gaining 10% by regen vs trying to get 10% more battery
capacity onboard (through more or better batteries), it starts to make
more sense.
> Without regen, you have a 3 cyl engine in front giving about
> 40mpg and if 500lb of battery/motor will be sufficient, you
> have a 2 or possibly a 4 seater ~2,000lb hybrid.
Most likely not. At best you have a 2-seater, because the 500lbs or
battery/motor just ate up most of the cargo capacity of the original
vehicle, even if you manage to stuff it in without removing the rear
seat. The 3cyl engine is unlikely to deliver 40mpg now that even with
only the driver onboard the car is running pretty close to its maximum
load capacity, even if you manage to add the hybrid bits without
degrading aerodynamics or increasing drag.
What you really have is a (probably low-performing) short range EV with
an onboard range extender. That is, something that can be driven as a
pure EV for short trips but can be driven as an ICE for longer trips.
As a result of hauling the extra weight of the ICE drivetrain around, EV
performance will be compromised in EV mode and the extra weight of the
EV drivetrain & batteries will compromise ICE performance.
I am intimately familiar with the ~1600lb early Sprint/Metro, as my
conversion is based on a Suzuki-badged '87. There is precious little
room where the rear axle lives to convert to a differential setup with a
motor of any sort, especially if you have to retain the gas tank for the
ICE. There's no room for a driveshaft to couple a motor to the diff,
and in such a light car I can't imagine being able to tolerate the
unsprung weight of a live axle directly coupled to at least a 6.7"
motor. This suggests that an IRS setup with the differential and motor
mounted to the body (taking up most of the space where the spare tire
well was) is the most likely setup.
About the only space available for stashing batteries is under the rear
seat unless you sink them into the floor of the passenger compartment.
You *might* fit 6 Optima YTs under the rear seat, for about 240lbs of
battery and a 72V system.
Not to discourage you at all, but I think you need to adjust your
expectations a bit to avoid disappointment.
Another (simpler) hybrid possibility is any small RWD pickup/SUV.
Simply modify the driveshaft to include a double-shafted 8" motor
in-line (or if necessary, use a fixed reduction between the motor and
driveshaft to allow higher motor RPM). If a pickup, throw a stack of
small AGMs (e.g. Hawker G26) in the bed along the cab to give 156V or
better. For pure EV mode, throw the tranny in neutral and run the
electric motor; for ICE mode, just drive normally and let the motor spin
(its drag is negligible, and if you use a sep-ex motor and regen
controller you could even recharge your batteries while driving or
braking). For quick stoplight getaways, use both.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think it's a control-side problem, the lurch thing, it's to do
with the Curtis's current limit operation with low impedance motors?
If I'm right about that, there's not an easy solution.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
On 6/8/05, Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> One method is to use a relay, energized by the backup light circuit, to
> switch either a capacitor or a resistor into the potbox circuit, thereby
> changing either the acceleration rate or the max throttle, respectively.
>
>
> Gnat wrote:
>
> >Does anyone have any suggestions for taming down the initial lurch
> >when backing up? The controller is a 1231, motor is a 9"ADC, and
> >currently is running on 108volts. The problem is only going to get
> >worse when the 144v pack is installed. Car is a Escort wagon running
> >a clutched 5 speed.
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I love the race descriptions and videos, keep them coming!
Out of curiousity, can the E-imp spin the wheels? In other words, are
your launches traction limited or current/gearing limited?
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Stay in touch with email, IM, photo sharing and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/stayintouch.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Actually, while there may be inherent problems with Curtis controllers
and low impedance motors, the lurch problem is particularly bad in
reverse because as the car starts moving backwards, the inertia of your
leg/foot tend to cause you to push down further on the
accelerator...thereby increasing the lurching action. Modifying the
input signal with the reverse-activated relay goes a long way towards
making it more driveable.
cheers,
Andrew
Evan Tuer wrote:
I don't think it's a control-side problem, the lurch thing, it's to do
with the Curtis's current limit operation with low impedance motors?
If I'm right about that, there's not an easy solution.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris Tromley [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The "unnamed" motorcycle seems to be a Suzuki GSXR 750 or
> 1100 stripped of its sportbike fairing.
It is a great looking chassis, to be sure... at least until the brick
wall of batteries is stacked into it (and out both sides...).
> Better yet, the
> GSXRs have much heavier-duty wheels, tires, suspensions and
> brakes than the Kawasaki EX500 I was originally considering
> for conversion. Best news of all is that the GSXRs seem to
> be fairly plentiful on eBay and the prices are good. I'm
> liking this idea a lot.
>
> I think it would be even easier to fit my originally-planned
> 300 lb. of Hawkers, an A00 ADC motor and a Zilla Z1k into
> this frame.
I'm not so sure. The downside of the GSXR style frame is the pair of
backbone tubes that 'encircle' the base of the gas tank. This severely
impacts on the ability to stack batteries into the frame when compared
to a steel frame with a single central tube that is straddled by the gas
tank. It seems a crying shame to me to start with such a beautiful
chassis and end up with batteries sticking out both sides like some
grotesque cubist attempt at a fairing.
Granted, with a single motor you would be able to fit more of the
batteries into the frame, however, you are still contrained to keeping
them below the backbone and sticking out on the sides to a greater
extent than if you had the freedom to let them rise at least a bit above
a central backbone tube.
> And for those who want lithium regardless of the higher cost,
> Jukka seems to be your man.
Perhaps... those look like Thundersky cells, which are not exactly
reknown for their power capability. As a result, you end up having to
install *way* more battery capacity just so that they will survive the
peak current required for decent performance at the necessarily lower
voltage. I'd go for a 8-10 Hawker G13s or G16s and keep the bike
looking and performing like a bike before I'd ride something with
batteries sticking out a foot on either side! ;^>
Bikes are already so sensitive to aerodynamics that I have to wonder how
much of the extra capacity of the LiIon pack is being lost just pushing
that brick wall through the air.
A quick look at Kokam's site (did everyone know they are part of
Eagle-Picher?) makes me think that a 120V 40Ah pack of the SLPB100216216
cells would be a much better plan. If I am reading the specs right,
each 3.7V cell is 11mm x 215mm x 220mm, and weighs 1.10kg, which means
that the 120V 40Ah pack would fit in a 14" x 9" x 9" space and weigh
77lbs (about the same size and weight as a single lead acid 12V group
31). This pack is good for 10C (400A) peak discharge, which is probably
more than sufficient (but if not, add more cells and raise the pack
voltage... I'm sure 240V worth would fit more or less into the same
volume as the original ICE).
At 120V and with a single motor, the bike would likely weigh *less* than
stock and with a Z1k for torque would be an absolute joy to drive on
city streets.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bob Rice wrote:
> As for 15" motors, haven't heard from the Netgain folks. What would ya be
> DOING with a 15 incher, a Trolley car or
I'd put it in one of these 3,000 lb sports cars...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
There is nothing easier than install DOS on a PC -
it is pretty much copying a floppy worth of files.
C'mon.
Yes, for a basic installation, this is true.
So why does it keep crashing then, even after I now have
it copied to a bootable MSDOS harddisk, as it says in the manual?
There are 2 possibilities:
Siadis doesn't like something about my hardware
( I've also tried a Via EPIA MII board, same result.
Maybe this is too modern a board as well.
I have an old 486 embedded board I'll try next )
or
Saidis requires a specific MSDOS memory setup to run properly
( talk to people who used to spend hours tweaking
their autoexec.bat and config.sys files to get a game to work,
then tell me that MSDOS is simple. Some parts are, but
as Lee likes to point out, the Devil is in the detail.
Seems the Devil is having a go at me... ;-)
This is what I'm really asking, is there a particular thing to
watch out for, like "don't use modern laptops"
or "don't run emm386.exe"
So I don't have the drivers etc anymore for Windows,
nor do I have the WinME (urgh!) CD that would have come with it.
No need for drivers. You have floppy disk from CArl
with everything you need.
So I've been attempting to install DOS onto it, after
wiping the harddrive. Initially, I hoped to use floppies, but
as you say Siadis doesn't like it. Lord knows why....
See above. Floppies are not used in diag. shops - it's like
having OS on floppies.
No, I hate DOS because IMHO it is crud.
It gets job done as far as SIADIS goes. End of story.
Yes, I have an ISO9141 OBDII-to-RS232 converter, that provides
full opto-isolation as well. It doesn't do any baud rate
conversion, so I'm assuming SAIDIS directly generates the weird
non-standard baud rates that OBDII uses by hitting the hardware
directly.
If it doesn't work, then I'll know that I really do need the special
black box and wire from Eddy at HEC, I've got a price for them.
As I said before, that interface box and wire were missing from the
system I got from Carl, and from one of your posts to me they were
probably missing when he originally got it too. No matter, if this
adaptor of mine doesn't work, I'll have to buy the bits from Eddy.
I'm just trying to have a bit of fun "peeking under the hood" ;-)
Your fun will end up loosing warranty I'm affraid.
OBDII box wasn't tried and approoved, even if it technically
will work. Get the black box from Carl or HEC.
This is not amateurish system 95% of this list use
(no offence to anyone, don't look for it where there is none)
Yes , I realise that. Please remember, I design and build
electronics for my living, often **for** large OEMs.
As for the possibility of damaging the inverter with non-approved
hardware, I hope the OBDII port is more robust than that!
In an automotive service environment, you could have tech
equipment made by many different manufacturers being connected
to an OBDII socket - that's why it's a standard interface!
But, don't worry. I have a price from Eddy for the parts,
it's just annoying me that the drive has been sitting on
my garage floor for 3 weeks and I can't try out the Siadis part
of it because I don't have the comms adaptor & wire!
It does run, but I have to connect up at least 216V of batts
to get it to pull in the main contactors...
Why on earth the automakers couldn't just use normal RS232
when they invented OBDII, I'll never know
Because OBD2 (3 and on) are designed mainly for emission systems
control and be able to easily tap to *existing* vehicle
comm buses. RS232 historically is not being one of them
for good reasons I'm not going to discuss here.
OBD wouldn't be documented outside the automaker's tech depts
at all, if it wasn't for the US Gov't mandating it to avoid small
garages being forved out of business by the big franchised dealerships.
Thank goodness they did. And thank goodness Siemens had the sense to use
the ISO
flavour of OBD, at least that's to an internationally agreed standard.
Maybe I'm spoilt by the way we usually put RS232 ports onto
the computer circuits we design in work - it makes debugging
so much easier. Of course, Siemens don't want end users
to get at debugging level of inverter = recipe for disaster.
Maybe I'm asking too much ;-)
( actually, I do know - they wanted to stop people figuring out
how to connect in and hack the cars they make. Some hope! :-)
Conspiracy... :-) They couldn't care less about that.
This does happen, much more often than you think. Usually it's
to lock a competitor's engineers out, not backyard EV enthusiasts :-)
Whilst I've got your attention Victor, is there any info available
on the CAN bus port in the Simotion inverter?
IT might if CAN module software has been loaded in.
I never tested it since never had need for it.
RS232 works fine for diagnostics on the bench,
so why bother?
It was just something I noticed when reading the manuals.
The projects on the disk Carl emailed me include one
with a name like the motor's part no., and another called
"EPC_CAN".
Obviously the CAN hardware is useless without the info on
the commands, etc. I was just wondering if you'd used it,
it could be useful for datalogging, though I'm sure
Siadis would be fine for that. Again, I'm probably wanting
to go one level deeper than I'm supposed to - too much time
spent designing things and asking
"why does it have to be like this?" ;-)
Only handful of parameters really inpact your driving
and they are all accessible to you without trouble.
Anything else is hacking and I'm not going to support that.
You have signed (or should have) that if you do something other
than in the manual, the warranty is void.
Well, I have never received anything from Carl to sign,
though of course it would likely not be enforceable here anyway.
(English law is different from US)
I guess this is an issue between Carl and MME.
For warantty support, that's up to Eddy at HEC since I live
in his territory (EU), it would be his decision.
There is no one to
prevent you from hacking, if you bought hardware to tinker -
fine with me. But there will be definitely no support for this
kind of activity either. It is not how OEM customers would use
the system and the system is meant for OEMs only, not
for Richards with Linuxes abd PBD2 boxes...
Here I disagree - a large OEM might very well want to use
data from a CAN bus port - to communicate with an ABS
system, for instance. Of course, they'd have serious
resources to throw at such a project. Teams of engineers,
lots of testing, etc.
But, I'm not a large OEM, so that answers my question anyway!
NDA has nothing to do with it.
You are already provided means to talk to inverter,
please use it.
Point made, but please remember, I was only asking!
Anyway, this getting long and OT, so let's kill this thread
Several people have emailed me with things to try to get
MSDOS set up ok, so I've got some leads.
If I can get Siadis running, then I'll be more then happy.
Richard
--- End Message ---
