EV Digest 4423
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: alternator as motor
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Welding question? redone
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Taming the wild Curtis controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: V2G - is not OT ...is it ?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) V2G - is not OT ...it is not POLITICAL either
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Taming the wild Curtis controller
by "Jamie Marshall \(GAMES\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: dc/dc converter update
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: V2G - is not OT ...it is not POLITICAL either
by David Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Deka Intimidators
by "Jeff & Diane" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: dc/dc converter update
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: dc/dc converter update
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) IMPORTANT NOTICE: Ranger EV Battery Pack Core Fee
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
17) Re: Deka Intimidators
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Tim <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Power of DC - Friday Night
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Gadget's EV show?
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: More SIADIS questions...(slightly OT)
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Deka Intimidators
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Vehicle GVWR explanations please?
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: V2G - is not OT ...it is not POLITICAL either
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Vehicle GVWR explanations please?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Vehicle GVWR explanations please?
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Bill Dennis wrote:
> can someone explain what it takes to control two separate rear
> wheel motors without a differential? How do the motors run at
> different speeds when you turn?
It depends on the motors.
With series DC motors, the problem is trivial. Wire the two motors in
series, and they behave exactly like a normal differential; same torque
at both wheels regardless of speed. With one wheel in the air, you have
no torque at the other wheel either.
Wire the two motors in parallel, and it behaves like a limited-slip
differential. Each motor operates independently, adjusting its speed
according to the torque. Same speed, same torque to both wheels. When
you turn, the inside wheel slows down a bit, so it delivers a bit more
torque.
AC induction motors and PM DC motors are "stiffer" (more change in
torque as their speed changes), but basically work the same as the
series motors in parallel. When you turn, the inside motor delivers more
torque than the outer motor (and more than series motors would have
under the same conditions), but not enough to cause problems. It still
works as long as you don't try it with extremely tight turning radius
(like a skid-steered vehicle).
AC synchronous and brushless DC motors are the only ones where you need
a separate controller for each wheel. These motors "fight hard" to run
at precisely the speed commanded. With them, you would either use one
motor with a differential, or separate controllers for each motor with
some control scheme so each runs at the right speed.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
> I remember someone (Rich Rudman possibly?) mentioning an experiment
> where a car alternator was driven as a motor, using a BLDC drive.
> I'd like to know how "good" was the resulting motor, in terms of
> power and efficiency. Basically, is it a good idea?
I did it years ago, using a GM 60amp alternator. I found their
efficiency was abysmal; under 60% at 12vac 60amps. They make a
low-efficiency, high-rpm, low-torque motor.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Stu or Jan wrote:
> 'Augmenting' a 110 VAC welder possibility?
> You have a 120 VAC 80 Amp welder.
> As I understand, the arc voltage drop is about 20 volts.
> You start the arc and then switch a diode protected 24 volt battery
> pack in parallel with your welder leads.
> Will this effectively raise the current capacity of your welder?
Well, it could. But the control circuits necessary so the battery and
welder worked cooperatively would be a challenge to design and test. I
don't think it would be worth the trouble.
> Can you mix AC and DC?
Yes, but I don't know how useful it would be in this case. In welding,
they add high frequency AC (not 60 Hz) to DC to get better arc striking
and better stability. But that takes more elaboarate equipment.
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/8/05, Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 10:15:55 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >Lee Hart wrote:
> >
> >> Testing batteries based on voltage or internal resistance is a bit like
> >> asking whether the king's nose or his thumb is a better standard for
> >> measuring inches -- NEITHER is a precise or accurate measurement
> >> standard.
> >
> >I love that analogy! Switch to metric - no King noses or thumbs involved.
>
> Ya, then you get to deal with another set of arbitrarily selected
> values. Only this time the numbers are hard to remember (how many
> wavelengths to a meter?
> John, who grew up metric and didn't have an English tool until after
> college.
You should know it's spelled "metre" then.. But feel free to stick to
your provincial units of measurement!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Grease the hardware and easy on the pedal. I try to listen for the safety
switch click and have the linkage tight after that happens and make sure it
engages shortly there after. Also a pot that has a different scale might
help. Changes slowly at first and then at the last half of the throw of the
pot goes to 5 k. It also might be a dirty pot that jumps up in resistance
too quick. I have frequently had trouble even with that technique and
sometimes I feather the clutch. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gnat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 1:38 PM
Subject: Taming the wild Curtis controller
Does anyone have any suggestions for taming down the initial lurch
when backing up? The controller is a 1231, motor is a 9"ADC, and
currently is running on 108volts. The problem is only going to get
worse when the 144v pack is installed. Car is a Escort wagon running
a clutched 5 speed.
Dave
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
IT's EV to grid support
using a EV fleet to support the grid in brown out conditions.
Of course AC propulsions is the only one that can do this and do it at 3
phase.
So of course they support it... but
It's the most expensive way to support the grid, and who gets the profit,
the power companies or the EV onwer that has a $80K ev in the garage that
can't drive it because it's keeping the light on.
I have sever doubts this will work in the big picture. No doubts that it can
be done....
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 1:06 PM
Subject: Re: V2G - is not OT ...is it ?
> On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 12:10:10 -0700, Steven Lough
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >After wading thru (seemingly) hundreds of e-mails on "Welding" for weeks
> >and weeks..and other important EV related topics, I thought that this
> >conference on V2G and my brief comments would at least generate one or
> >two replies, or comments....
> >
> > ....But to date ..... nothing !
> >
> >Afterall... 95% of all information had to do with Electric Vehicles !
> >3% on Climate degredation. 2% on how silly H2 and Fool cells are....
>
> I don't know what V2G is (must have missed that one) but judging from
> your last sentence, I imagine the lack of response is because everyone
> has been doing such an admirable job of late of keeping political
> discussions off the list.
>
> John
> ---
> John De Armond
> See my website for my current email address
> http://www.johngsbbq.com
> Cleveland, Occupied TN
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
V2G stands for Vehicle to Grid power transfer. The 2 day conference
here in Seattle was titled
Seattle Electric Vehicles to Grid...
You can see how my ears would have perked up over THAT ! It was written
up in our local paper, and discussed on TV. The president of AC
Propulsion Inc. thought it important enough to spend 2 days here, as
well as experts from EPRI Transportation, and Weststart Advanced veh.
and many others.
In a nut shell, it is predicated on a few things that are of course NOT
HERE yet. But should be like.....
1. a LOT L O T more EVs, or PHEV's nation wide, or at least in one region
(from ALL the presenters, need for MORE EVs and PHEVs was the most
prevalent point made !V2G or NO V2G. How can we not be for that .)
2. a lot of wind power where it blows one day, charges a lot of
batteries at off peak times at a low kwh cost. and when the wind is not
blowing....
3. and then EVs are set up with inverters to SELL back small amounts of
their stored power TO the utilities at a profit to the owners, and at a
slightly LOWER than average price to the UTILITIES. Lower than ENRON
was selling it at, thereby a win-win situation.
Again... as I stated in my First Post a few days ago. Just go to
Google and type in V2G to read up on all the scientific and factual
background on this... if any one is interested.
Im not an expert. THEY were.... It just made a lot of sense. EV-wise,
MORE EV's and development of Plug-IN hybrids, and wind-power wise,
climate wise, foreign oil depletion wise, etc.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Your milage may vary, but I slowed the throttle "punch" on my Zilla by
putting a capacitor in parallel with the throttle connection to the
controller. This filters out noise, and puts in a lag on the increase
in throttle.
I would test it out with the drive wheels off the ground or something.
(that's pretty easy on a sparrow). The "throttle release speed" isn't
affected BTW, because the throttle shorts out the capacitor when fully
released, so the voltage in the capacitor falls almost instantly. This
is important as you don't want the engine to still be gunning as you are
doing an emergency stop.
The larger the cap the more severe the delay. I settled on a 50
micro-ohm cap, which game me about a 1/2 second lag from punching the
throttle to what seemed like full on. Still punchier than any ICE care
I've driven. I would imaging that the internal wiring of the controller
could change what size cap you would need though. It would change how
much current goes through the throttle pot.
Suddenly a possible safety problem occurs to me. What would happen if
the throttle wire was cut while I was accelerating? The cap would stay
charged and mimic the throttle for some period of time. Perhaps the
controller would be charging the cap and would never stop. I should
check that.
-Jamie
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 3:33 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Re: Taming the wild Curtis controller
Grease the hardware and easy on the pedal. I try to listen for the
safety
switch click and have the linkage tight after that happens and make sure
it
engages shortly there after. Also a pot that has a different scale
might
help. Changes slowly at first and then at the last half of the throw of
the
pot goes to 5 k. It also might be a dirty pot that jumps up in
resistance
too quick. I have frequently had trouble even with that technique and
sometimes I feather the clutch. Lawrence Rhodes...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gnat" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 1:38 PM
Subject: Taming the wild Curtis controller
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions for taming down the initial lurch
> when backing up? The controller is a 1231, motor is a 9"ADC, and
> currently is running on 108volts. The problem is only going to get
> worse when the 144v pack is installed. Car is a Escort wagon running
> a clutched 5 speed.
>
> Dave
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ohnojoe wrote:
> I have some questions concerning dc/dc converters... The Tracker
> has a Curtis dc/dc converter rated for max input of 96 volts.
> The traction pack is 120 volts. However, the converter was hooked
> up with the positive on the fuse for the 2 gage wire that connected
> 8 of the traction batteries in the rear of the car to 2 of the
> batteries in the front of the car and the negative input was
> connected to line side of the primary contactor.
Ok, I think I understand. You wired the DC/DC input across 8 of the 10
12v batteries in your pack; the 8 that were at the negative end of the
string.
This would give you 8 x 12v = 96 volts *nominal*, but considerably more
during charging. At 15v per 12v battery, the DC/DC would see 120 volts.
So, I would read the specifications carefully for your DC/DC to see if
it is 96v max nominal, or 96v max ABSOLUTE.
> I moved the negative input to the load side of the contactor,
> so the negative would not complete the connection unless the
> 12 volt system was turned on. Once I did that the 12 volt gauge
> read backwards.
Ok, it sounds like you wanted the DC/DC to be controlled with the
keyswitch, so it was off while parked, and on while driving. That's
reasonable.
However, I'll bet your controller was also connected to this same
contactor. The circuit would be something like this (view with a fixed
width font). This will be BAD NEWS for the DC/DC!
_______________________________
| |
__|__+ ____|_____
___ 24v (2x12v) | B+ |
| - | |
|__________________ |controller|
| __|__ | |
__|__+ | + | | |
___ 96v (8x12v) |DC/DC| |____B-____|
| - |__-__| |
|________/_________|____________|
negative-side
contactor
When the negative-side contactor is off, you STILL have a path from +24v
to controller B+, thru the controller to B-, to the DC/DC -, thru the
DC/DC ***BACKWARDS*** to the DC/DC +, and back to the -24v. In other
words, the controller is being powered thru the DC/DC, and the DC/DC has
reversed-polarity applied to its input.
I don't know the internal design of the Curtis DC/DC, but this is likely
to be bad news for it! It might just blow a fuse before any other damage
occurred. But it might also destroy any polarized input capacitors
inside the DC/DC, or kill a reverse-polarity protection diode.
There's a second potential problem when you switch the input power to a
DC/DC. Most DC/DCs have a big input filter capacitor. When you switch
the input voltage suddenly from 0 volts (off) to pack voltage (on), the
rapid change causes a very large charging current into this capacitor.
This "inrush" current surge is very hard on the capacitors, as well as
the contactor, relay, or switch contacts doing the switching. So you
need an inrush limiter in series to keep this peak current down.
(This is exactly the same situation you have with the controller, by the
way).
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:43 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
3. and then EVs are set up with inverters to SELL back small amounts
of their stored power TO the utilities at a profit to the owners, and
at a slightly LOWER than average price to the UTILITIES. Lower than
ENRON was selling it at, thereby a win-win situation.
I'm no expert, but I have read quite a few articles where homeowners
had set up grid-tied PV systems and were surprised to find that the
power they sold to the utilities was credited at wholesale rates, not
the retail rates that they themselves were paying the utility when the
sun was down. Many undersized their systems because they assumed they
would be paid retail rates. The wholesale rate is lower than the
off-peak rate that you can (at least in some states) charge you EV
with. So I don't think an EV owner would be getting money back in these
situations.
David
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave,
I LOVE this forum! I ask a question and in a few hours in comes your great
reference to a 1410 pound 4WD ICE.
I believe that if a 2,000 pound hybrid conversion could be achieved, we
would have a really practical vehicle.
Less weight vehicle = less power = smaller motor = fewer batteries = cheaper
controller = less battery weight = smaller diameter wire = less robust
drivetrain torque handling capability= smaller tires (tyres) = less weight
tires.
I wonder if any Justys are around today?
Are there any other candidates?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Mark Hastings
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 3:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
Be fair Impreza isn't the Metro of 4WD.. Subaru Justy. I think in fact there
was one where someone hacked an electric motor into the rear and had
batteries with the trunk for accelleration purposes only though.
I just checked and when originally released around '85 the base model was
1410 lbs.
http://www.subaru-global.com/about/history/1984-001.html
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
BoyntonStu said:
If the 1995 Subaru Impreza weighed 1,620lb as a 1990 Geo Metro instead of
its 2,605lb, I would not think twice. (I wonder what the lightest 4WD car
is?)
My father has a small four wheel drive vehicle with 12 inch tyres and a
Crosley ICE engine. It weighs somewhere around 1700 lbs, but has the
aerodynamics of an outhouse.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 9:42 AM
Subject: RE: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A while back either John Wayland or Rod Wilde were going to test the Deka
Intimidator batteries and get back to the list. I think someone was going
to give one to Rich Rudman to see if he could kill it.
Any follow-up on these? If they are as good as the spec show, wouldn't they
be a great alternative to Yellow Tops? At half the price....
Jeff Wilson
Looking for my own grin now.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Another but totally unrelated issue is that loading a part of
your pack different than the rest will have its influence on the
balance in the battery pack, with the possible result of early failure.
That is exactly the reason to do DC/DC, otherwise you could be tempted to
simply tap 12V off a (one or two) batteries for the cars systems.
(This will also defeat the safety of a floating pack).
This probably was already discussed before, but just so you understand
the risk of not loading your batteries all the same....
At 120V pack (150V during charging) you could be using an ordinary
110V (AC) to 12V battery charger, as long as you make sure that it
is an efficient device, not a big 60Hz transformer.
Regards,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Lee Hart
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 1:04 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: dc/dc converter update
ohnojoe wrote:
> I have some questions concerning dc/dc converters... The Tracker
> has a Curtis dc/dc converter rated for max input of 96 volts.
> The traction pack is 120 volts. However, the converter was hooked
> up with the positive on the fuse for the 2 gage wire that connected
> 8 of the traction batteries in the rear of the car to 2 of the
> batteries in the front of the car and the negative input was
> connected to line side of the primary contactor.
Ok, I think I understand. You wired the DC/DC input across 8 of the 10
12v batteries in your pack; the 8 that were at the negative end of the
string.
This would give you 8 x 12v = 96 volts *nominal*, but considerably more
during charging. At 15v per 12v battery, the DC/DC would see 120 volts.
So, I would read the specifications carefully for your DC/DC to see if
it is 96v max nominal, or 96v max ABSOLUTE.
> I moved the negative input to the load side of the contactor,
> so the negative would not complete the connection unless the
> 12 volt system was turned on. Once I did that the 12 volt gauge
> read backwards.
Ok, it sounds like you wanted the DC/DC to be controlled with the
keyswitch, so it was off while parked, and on while driving. That's
reasonable.
However, I'll bet your controller was also connected to this same
contactor. The circuit would be something like this (view with a fixed
width font). This will be BAD NEWS for the DC/DC!
_______________________________
| |
__|__+ ____|_____
___ 24v (2x12v) | B+ |
| - | |
|__________________ |controller|
| __|__ | |
__|__+ | + | | |
___ 96v (8x12v) |DC/DC| |____B-____|
| - |__-__| |
|________/_________|____________|
negative-side
contactor
When the negative-side contactor is off, you STILL have a path from +24v
to controller B+, thru the controller to B-, to the DC/DC -, thru the
DC/DC ***BACKWARDS*** to the DC/DC +, and back to the -24v. In other
words, the controller is being powered thru the DC/DC, and the DC/DC has
reversed-polarity applied to its input.
I don't know the internal design of the Curtis DC/DC, but this is likely
to be bad news for it! It might just blow a fuse before any other damage
occurred. But it might also destroy any polarized input capacitors
inside the DC/DC, or kill a reverse-polarity protection diode.
There's a second potential problem when you switch the input power to a
DC/DC. Most DC/DCs have a big input filter capacitor. When you switch
the input voltage suddenly from 0 volts (off) to pack voltage (on), the
rapid change causes a very large charging current into this capacitor.
This "inrush" current surge is very hard on the capacitors, as well as
the contactor, relay, or switch contacts doing the switching. So you
need an inrush limiter in series to keep this peak current down.
(This is exactly the same situation you have with the controller, by the
way).
--
Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has! -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
ohnojoe wrote:
> I tried to find a wiring diagram for the dcp converter but I can't find this
> or any other converter on the DCP web site.
Bob Bath mailed me a copy of it a while back(thanks Bob!).
I just scanned it from cover to cover:
http://img2.uploadimages.net/461141dcp1.gif
http://img2.uploadimages.net/121134dcp2.gif
http://img2.uploadimages.net/999067dcp3.gif
http://img2.uploadimages.net/178863dcp4.gif
http://img2.uploadimages.net/808862dcp5.gif
http://img2.uploadimages.net/191207dcp6.gif
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/8/05, Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dave,
>
> I LOVE this forum! I ask a question and in a few hours in comes your great
> reference to a 1410 pound 4WD ICE.
>
>
> Are there any other candidates?
Fiat Panda
740kg = 1600 or so pounds.
http://www.carsfromitaly.com/fiat/index.html
The new model is a lot heavier, 980kG!
http://tinyurl.com/7l95q
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This is a courtesy notice to warn people potentially bidding on
Ranger EVs that come without battery packs:
Along with the price of a new "remanufactured" Ranger EV battery
pack, there is an additional core fee of $1,000 that will be charged in the
event that the original battery pack core is not returned at the time that a
new one is purchased. This is similar to what is presently done when normal
12V batteries are sold and cores are not returned.
Ford and Battery M.D. have established a system to keep Ranger EV
parts available to owners for a very long time (numerous years).
This system; however, is dependent on the core packs being returned
to Battery M.D. so that new packs can be built using the old tubs.
Without tubs and the corresponding electronics inside these packs,
the ability to supply parts long term will be severely jeopardized.
If everyone works together, a long term supply of parts can be
assured. This is such an important issue that Ford is willing to pay for the
transportation of the core back to Battery M.D. for this expressed purpose.
FYI, this core fee is in the process of being raised to $3,000 to
better represent the value of the BCM, wiring, thermal management
system and control system that is in the pack and to discourage abuse of the
system.
We do not want the buyers of these vehicles to be penalized so we
hope this public notice will provide ample warning to the potential
bidders and allow you to factor this into your buying decision.
Please spread the word to your friends so this is not a surprise.
Thank you,
Battery M.D.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff & Diane wrote:
> A while back either John Wayland or Rod Wilde were going to test the Deka
> Intimidator batteries and get back to the list. I think someone was going
> to give one to Rich Rudman to see if he could kill it.
It would be very nice to know if these can put out serious amps with no damage.
> If they are as good as the spec show, wouldn't they
> be a great alternative to Yellow Tops? At half the price....
I'm suprised there aren't more people using these considering the price..
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/products/pdfs/1143.pdf
http://www.eastpenn-deka.com/
http://www.remybattery.com/350/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=342&subcat=474&cat=Deka+INTIMIDATOR
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It will be available next summer...can't wait for 40MPG : )
Tim
Lee Hart wrote:
The Toyota Estima hybrid minivan (not sold in the USA)
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Hello to All,
It sure sounds like the east coast guys are cranking up the heat! It pleases me
to see the
spread of NEDRA and EV drag
racing.
Chip Gribben wrote:
> We'd love to have some West Coast people race at the PDC this year or come
> out to visit.
I've had this fantasy of showing up unannounced with my little 'ol Datsun at
this
EVent...even have my wife's approval on
such a trip, but all the planets would have to be precisely aligned. It
'would' be a hoot
to simply roll in to the track,
unload the car, bake its tires a bit, then run a few 12's :-) Just a fantasy
this year,
as the car's still all torn
down....maybe some year it just might happen, and you'll find Tim, Marko,
Father Time,
Madman Rudman, Jim Husted, and
myself coming in as a rag tag bunch of amp heads.
Tim Humphrey wrote:
> Barring any Wayland type events, I'll be there Friday night also.
I'm right there with all of you in spirit, and am having fun reading everyone's
posts...you can smell the excitement all
the way to the left coast! Good luck to everyone, be safe, and tear up the
track!
See Ya....John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
Plasma Boy Racing, "We blow things up, so you don't have to!"
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The show is in the works, we probably will start
shooting in the fall. The title is to be announced.I
will give fair warning when the show will air.
Gadget
--- Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What is the name of Gadget's show? I am very
> familiar with BIG (which I
> think is not airing any more), but what is the "new"
> show where he is
> building EVs?? I've heard about it for months now,
> but have yet to see a
> name.
>
> I really don't watch television anymore, so knowing
> the specifics would
> really help me find it for recording. I've asked
> this twice before, but
> never received an answer to date. Someone want to
> lend me a clue on this
> one? 8^)
>
> -Ken Trough
> Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
> http://visforvoltage.com
> AIM - ktrough
> FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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Richard Bebbington wrote:
> So why does it keep crashing then, even after I now have
> it copied to a bootable MSDOS harddisk, as it says in the manual?
If you want to try a complete shot in the dark, could give this a try:
http://dosbox.sourceforge.net/
Or just install DOS on your 486 system. I don't think DOS will work
on the Via EPIA MII board or other modern boards.
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Hello to All,
Jeff & Diane wrote:
> A while back either John Wayland or Rod Wilde were going to test the Deka
> Intimidator batteries and get back to the list. I think someone was going
> to give one to Rich Rudman to see if he could kill it.
>
> Any follow-up on these? If they are as good as the spec show, wouldn't they
> be a great alternative to Yellow Tops? At half the price....
>
I've posted on several occasions about this battery, have bought two of them at
a
wholesale pricing, and have used one at lighter duty than in an EV mode.
I get great cooperation and interest from other battery makers, like Hawker and
Exide, but
the folks that sell and distribute the Dekas have not shown any interest at all
in working
with me. Thus, the planned tests with MadMan didn't happen. Another negative
thing
happened about a week ago when I took about an hour of my time trying to secure
better EV
pricing on the Dekas for a friend here in town. After giving me a run around
for some
time, the counter guy at the distributorship happily gave me a 20 unit price
that was
about $10 'higher' per battery than the price I paid for the two previous
purchases! I
reminded him that I had paid less for a single battery purchase, twice, then he
argued
telling me they'd never sold them that cheap before....oh well, scratch these
guys off the
Plasma Boy list.
I'm sure the Deka Intimidator is a fine battery, it's too bad the distributor
here in town
isn't interested in the EV community enough to (a) let us test one at EV loads
(b) give EV
quantity discount pricing (c) show at least a passing interest in EV racing and
or daily
commuting on stored electricity via their battery line.
Kudos to Hawker and Exide for putting their product where their mouth is.
See Ya......John Wayland
Proud to be sponsored by both Exide and Hawker & HawkerAerobatteries
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I have been looking at some ratings for Gross vehicle loading and am trying
to make some sense out of it.
Two possible SAAB donor vehicles as follows:
GVWR 3910 Lb GAWR Front 2270 GAWR rear 1870
GVWR 4300LB GAWR Front 2480 GAWR rear 2230
Since I am new to this, maybe someone could explain these. I assume these
are max load rates for the front and rear, however in neither case do they
add up to the total weight (more if you add them). Neither represent the
"curb weight" advertised for the vehicle. Knowing what they mean will help
me figure out my weight distribution for the battery packs.
Thanks!!
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About 38 states now have net metering laws where the utilities must give you
the retail rate. Here in Washington State they just passed the most
progressive power buy back incentives for PV systems in the nation. We pay
about 7 cents a kilowatt hour and with the new law you can get up to 28
cents with a grid tie system.
Roderick Wilde
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Murphy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 4:21 PM
Subject: Re: V2G - is not OT ...it is not POLITICAL either
On Jun 8, 2005, at 3:43 PM, Steven Lough wrote:
3. and then EVs are set up with inverters to SELL back small amounts of
their stored power TO the utilities at a profit to the owners, and at a
slightly LOWER than average price to the UTILITIES. Lower than ENRON was
selling it at, thereby a win-win situation.
I'm no expert, but I have read quite a few articles where homeowners had
set up grid-tied PV systems and were surprised to find that the power they
sold to the utilities was credited at wholesale rates, not the retail
rates that they themselves were paying the utility when the sun was down.
Many undersized their systems because they assumed they would be paid
retail rates. The wholesale rate is lower than the off-peak rate that you
can (at least in some states) charge you EV with. So I don't think an EV
owner would be getting money back in these situations.
David
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Mark Ward [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> GVWR 3910 Lb GAWR Front 2270 GAWR rear 1870
> GVWR 4300LB GAWR Front 2480 GAWR rear 2230
>
> Since I am new to this, maybe someone could explain these.
The Gross Axle Weight (GAWR) ratings tell you the absolute maximum that
each axle can support.
The Gross Vehicle Weight (GVWR) rating tells you the maximum *total*
weight that the vehicle can support regardless of how it is distributed.
Some people interpret the GVWR as a rough guideline, however, this can
be risky from the point of view that if/when your vehicle is in an
accident your insurance coverage may be void if your vehicle is found to
be in excess of its GVWR.
I would use the GAWRs as a guideline to the front/rear weight
distribution you should try to stay within, if you have nothing else to
go by. Better still is to measure the pre-conversion weight
distribution and try to maintain this if you wish to preserve the
handling and braking characteristics of the original vehicle.
For a passenger car you can usually get a pretty close estimate of the
curb weight by taking the GVWR and subtracting about 200-250lbs times
the number of seatbelts. For instance, I believe the GVWR for my '87
Suzuki Forsa (Checy Sprint) is about 2400lbs; subtract 200lbs * 4
seatbelts = 800lbs and I get an approximate curb weight of 1600lbs (vs
the spec of about 1587lbs).
Hope this helps,
Roger.
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check out the picture at the bottom of the page.
http://reverendgadget.com/triumph2.html.
That's a 300 dollar gen head. It's should give about
10kw of braking with proper down shifting down to
about 1000 rpm after that it's all pads. Poor man's
regen. I'll let you know how it works.
Gadget
--- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chris,
>
>
> IMHO regen is a waste because there is too little
> power gained from braking.
>
> Without regen, you have a 3 cyl engine in front
> giving about 40mpg and if
> 500lb of battery/motor will be sufficient, you have
> a 2 or possibly a 4
> seater ~2,000lb hybrid.
> Another possibility is to place a whopping
> alternator on the engine that is
> energized when braking. Pushing amps into the
> batteries should slow you
> down and it would be a 'regen' brake-saving system.
>
> BoyntonStu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Robison
> Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2005 10:32 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.
>
> This is called a "through-the-road" hybrid.
> Chrysler had proposed a
> hybrid version of the Sebring that would work this
> way.
>
> The problem is that you really want your motor doing
> regen in a hybrid
> vehicle, and I think you really want it doing that
> in front, not in back,
> to take advantage of weight transfer during braking.
> Most through-the-road
> hybrid concept vehicles (including Chrysler's hybrid
> Durango concept) have
> the ICE powering the rear wheels and the electric
> motor powering the
> front.
>
> But for grins, it would be fun to make a simple
> hybrid this way. I thought
> about doing it with my Integra, before I lost my
> mind and decided on
> building a hotrod...
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> Stu or Jan said:
> > Using a ~1600lb ICE automobile like a Geo Metro,
> Power a rear wheel or
> > both
> > wheels with a motor, batteries in trunk.
> >
> >
> >
> > Has this been done?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > BoyntonStu
> >
> >
>
>
>
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
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Mark Ward wrote:
> I have been looking at some ratings for Gross vehicle loading and am trying
> to make some sense out of it.
>
> GVWR 3910 Lb GAWR Front 2270 GAWR rear 1870
>
>
> GVWR 4300LB GAWR Front 2480 GAWR rear 2230
>
> Since I am new to this, maybe someone could explain these. I assume these
> are max load rates for the front and rear, however in neither case do they
> add up to the total weight (more if you add them). Neither represent the
> "curb weight" advertised for the vehicle.
I think why the "curb weight" can never be found is probably for
liability reasons, and fact that it can be so variable considering:
"Curb Weight - The weight of an empty vehicle, without cargo and
driver and passengers, but including maximum amounts of fuel, oil,
coolant and standard equipment, including the spare tire and tools."
Best to use a scale at a truck stop to know for sure.
Or, depending on how much disposable income you have.. Could pick up
some "cheap" scales..
http://www.madone.net/html/goods___services.html
I've used one of these scales before at a truck stop:
http://www.catscale.com/locator.shtml
Cost like $7 for the signed printout. They might waive the fee if you
tell them you just want to know how much your little vehicle weighs
and not an 80,000 lb semi.. and don't need the fancy printout.
----
What is Gross axle weight rating (gawr)?
Maximum to which the AXLE can be loaded, according to the
manufacturer; includes all weight placed on all tires on a given axle.
What is Gross vehicle weight rating (gvwr)?
Maximum to which a vehicle can be loaded, according to the
manufacturer; includes dry weight of the vehicle plus all fuel, water,
supplies and passengers.
http://www.rvbrokers.com/mypage.html?pg=F.A.Q.
----
The reasons the front and rear can handle different amounts of
weight.. Look at how much weight already exists on one end compared
to the other, and the suspension type and setup. Some vehicles have
torsion bar suspension up front, and leaf springs in the back. The PT
Cruiser had regular coil springs in the back, and short, little coil
springs mounted on the struts in the front.
Find out the curb weight, then be sure not to overload the front or
rear GAWR ratings, and make sure when added together, they don't
exceed the GVWR.
Using either scales at home, or using a truck scale, you can find out
how much weight is on the front and rear axle. The truck scale is
actually multiple scales for the trucks axles and the trailer.
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