EV Digest 4436
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: regen value (was 'Instant' Hybrid idea)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) RE: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
by Gnat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: regen value (was 'Instant' Hybrid idea)
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
by Fortunat Mueller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Hub motors?
by Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Alternator VS DC converter
by "SCOTT O'QUINN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: An EVentful Weekend - Timing a motor
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: regen value (was 'Instant' Hybrid idea)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks Victor. I will put a filter on it.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: June 14, 2005 4:55 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
Don,
Put the scope on the lines you're measuring and you'll understand why.
Forward/reverse enables generating 6kHz carrier (you may hear slight whistle
from the motor), this is what your emeter picks up.
There is no phase lag or lead, so no torque generated, but you can't easily
turn the motor shaft - the drive "locks"
0RPM since you don't press accelerator or regen. Thus the electric noise.
Filter the inputs at least; shielding can only be for better, worst case it
will be useless, but no worse.
Victor
Don Cameron wrote:
> It works AOK with the null modem cable. Now for the next problem:
>
> it works fine when nothing else is on, it works fine when in start
> position (PS Pump and Vacuum pump going) is works fine when contactors
> engaged (Siemens AC system)
>
> However, when the forward or reverse switch is pressed to drive or
> reverse, the data become garbled. Each time I switch back to
> "neutral", the text becomes legible again.
>
> Noise? Should I put tin foil on my head?
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> On Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> Sent: June 13, 2005 10:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Link10 RS232
>
> Connect a dual color LED from pin 3 to pin 5.
>
> If the LED flickers every second, it means the data is flowing.
> If the LED comes on steady, it means the driver is connected but the
> data is not coming out.
> If the LED does not come on, my documentation might be wrong and you
> should run the same test from pin 2 to pin 5.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:19 PM
> Subject: Link10 RS232
>
>
>
>>I just tried my Link10 with RS232, however no data is coming from the
>
> meter.
>
>>I have tried with two different laptops. Looking in the manual it does
>>not appear that I have to set any special parameters to turn it on.
>>
>>Suggestions?
>>
>>thanks
>>
>>Don
>>
>>Victoria, BC, Canada
>>
>>See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
>>
>>www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://41/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>>
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger Stockton wrote:
Roger, everything is perfectly explained in your reply, thanks,
just minor correction, I may nor have been clear enough on this:
Looking at it another way, it seems Victor's values indicate that
without regen he would have removed 8.71Ah + 1.73Ah from the pack, for
10.44Ah total needing to be returned from the grid.
I would have removed 8.71A without regen, not 8.71Ah+1.73Ah
My total net balance at the end of the trip was 6.98Ah,
which is 8.71 (out of batt) - 1.73 (into the batt).
Without regen [into the battery], it would just
be 8.71 out as total at the end.
My numbers on the way home will be different since elevation
is most likely different between starting and ending point.
Stu,
As David, Don and Roger pointed out, don't look for hard numbers -
they are highly dependent on the driving style, tire pressure,
voltage sag (e.g batt temp which in turn depends on it's type, load,
age, SOC...), front wind if you will, proper alignment and many
other unknown factors.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is your data ground seperated from the system ground?
Is the signal shielding intact and grounded?
Yes tinfoil is very fashionable.
Dave
(Kelowna)
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Don Cameron
> Sent: June 14, 2005 11:48 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
>
>
> It works AOK with the null modem cable. Now for the next problem:
>
> it works fine when nothing else is on,
> it works fine when in start position (PS Pump and Vacuum pump going)
> is works fine when contactors engaged (Siemens AC system)
>
> However, when the forward or reverse switch is pressed to drive
> or reverse,
> the data become garbled. Each time I switch back to "neutral", the text
> becomes legible again.
>
> Noise? Should I put tin foil on my head?
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> Sent: June 13, 2005 10:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Link10 RS232
>
> Connect a dual color LED from pin 3 to pin 5.
>
> If the LED flickers every second, it means the data is flowing.
> If the LED comes on steady, it means the driver is connected but
> the data is
> not coming out.
> If the LED does not come on, my documentation might be wrong and
> you should
> run the same test from pin 2 to pin 5.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:19 PM
> Subject: Link10 RS232
>
>
> > I just tried my Link10 with RS232, however no data is coming from the
> meter.
> > I have tried with two different laptops. Looking in the manual
> it does not
> > appear that I have to set any special parameters to turn it on.
> >
> > Suggestions?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Don
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> >
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://41/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Roger, everything is perfectly explained in your reply,
> thanks, just minor correction, I may nor have been clear
> enough on this:
> My total net balance at the end of the trip was 6.98Ah,
> which is 8.71 (out of batt) - 1.73 (into the batt).
>
> Without regen [into the battery], it would just
> be 8.71 out as total at the end.
Thanks Victor; my mistake.
So, this improves the situation over my original WAG. Instead of a
16.6% savings on the cost of grid electricity to recharge after this
trip, regen actually provided nearly 20% (1.73/8.71) savings.
Your reported differences between discharge voltage (as low as 220V) and
charge voltage (as high as 340V) only further improves the situation as
it means that on an energy basis an even greater percentage of energy
was returned than the Ah values would suggest (i.e. in the most extreme
case, [EMAIL PROTECTED] = 1.535kWh removed, but 1.73Ah @ 340V = 0.588kWh
returned, which is 38% of the energy removed while 1.73Ah is less than
25% of the Ah removed).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dumb newby question time: Can you move the brushes (timing) so far
that the
> motor does not operate or smoke? If so, could you use the timing
stick as a
> controller?
>
Actualy if you go pasted a certain point you would in fact reverse
the motor direction as the leads would go from the 6:00 and 12:00
spots to the 3 and 9. I've never been given a chance to do this of
course but this is how I see it. We could cut the adjuster arm off
John's Beast motor and give it a try hehehe.
> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
> Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
> -
Harold S.
> Hulbert
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:19 PM
> Subject: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
>
>
> > Hello Listers and Lurkers,
> > Here's an EV Travelogue from this past weekend, so proceed at
your
> > leisure- if interested....
> >
> > I just concluded a very EVentful weekend, beginning with the
Friday
> > delivery of 400 nicad cells to John Lussmyer on Whidbey Island.
The
> > attractive log home holds a Cougar habitat that's bigger than my
first
> > apartment, and is home to a 70 lb purring kitten that I would've
been
> > happy to pet, if she hadn't been contentedly crunching on a
chicken
> > carcass at the moment!.... On to the EV shop. Cougar John's place
is
> > equipped with an arch-style building that could hold his entire
fleet, and
> > besides all the usual electrical paraphernalia, he's got a WWII
vintage
> > aircraft engine hoist that's perfect for straddling and lifting
just about
> > any vehicle EVer made, with it's 20-ton capacity chain hoist and
elegantly
> > simple wishbone design. From the looks of things, Cougar should
be able
> > to show off a nicad-powered Sparrow in no time! ;-)
> >
> > We then rolled my much-relieved Ranger onward to Vancouver, BC
for a
> > rendezvous with Al Godfrey. For those of you who haven't had the
pleasure
> > of meeting Al, he's the sort of gentleman that anyone would've
loved to
> > have as a grandfather or neighbor. From the open, yet cozy
contemporary
> > home of stone and timber overlooking the Fraser River valley that
he and
> > his wife Esther built with their own hands, to the remote-control
ElecTrak
> > that quietly grooms the lawn, the Godfrey estate oozes
tranquility, until
> > one glimpses the sinfully silver Porsche 928 lurking in the
garage out
> > back. This immaculate car would fit in at any Porsche Concours,
but the
> > craftsmanship, fit and finish on his EV conversion would also be
the envy
> > of any amphead. Of course, vehicular hygiene is helped a bit by
the sano
> > Siemens A/C setup from Victor and TWENTY-SIX sealed Optima blue
top
> > batteries that were so skillfully secreted away in the dark
recesses of
> > the 928, but juxtaposed against the three de!
> > cades worth of groovy EV gizmos filling that old garage, the 928
looks
> > more like it's emerging from the lair of a mad scientist than the
humble
> > workshop of a retired engineer.
> > Unfortunately, some erratic battery behavior has the Porsche on a
> > stress-free diet, and we were unable to unleash it's horses, but
my EV
> > Grin quickly reappeared with the arrival of Al's buddy from the
boonies,
> > Alan Cumberlidge, who stopped by in his handbuilt Plymouth
Horizon for a
> > battery boost before Saturday's show. Seeing as how an overnight
charge
> > was forthcoming, we took a spirited drive around the
neighborhood, showing
> > that not only will that old Omni beat any original 25 year-old
econoboxer
> > on the road, but it will do so in silence, powered by an
early "before
> > they put the squeal in" Curtis controller.
> >
> > Saturday brought showers to Vancouver, but it didn't dampen the
spirits of
> > REV! participants, who put on a good showing despite the flukey
weather.
> > What really makes this show a standout, (besides the rides in an
> > immaculate 1912 Detroit Electric!) is the involvement at all
levels of the
> > hobby. Electrathon racing continued in a seemingly endless cycle
of
> > circles on the short track (the winners completed 120+ laps!),
while
> > electric bicycle, scooter, and board buyers got test rides till
all comers
> > were satisfied. Rich Rudman was there manning the charge
trailer, but the
> > Madman was a little jumpy amidst all the liquid humidity, hopping
every
> > time somebody clapped their hands or slammed a door with a
quick "WHAT
> > POPPED!" He did get to blow off some steam by showing that
Goldie
> > brought more to the show than just a pretty face, by laying
rubber all
> > over the nice and clean electrathon track during an impromptu all-
EV
> > parade.
> >
> > After Saturday's excitement and a yawn-inducing trek home, Sunday
brought
> > an old friend into town. Tom is a professor of Aeronautical
Engineering
> > and a test pilot at Mississippi State University, and though I
had been
> > telling him about this stuff for years, there's nothing like a
visit to
> > the Wayland Juice Bar to create a new EV Grin. We stopped by
John's place
> > just in time to see the Yellow Monster unveiled. It truly was
amazing to
> > see the handiwork that turned a junk-pile antique forklift motor
into the
> > dynamically-timed monster that will no doubt claim it's place in
the NEDRA
> > record books. Jim Husted's moveable brush rigging operated like
it had
> > always been there, and watching that simple lever make dramatic
changes in
> > motor RPM while hooked directly to the battery without a single
contactor,
> > pot, or other controller sure made me wonder why this trick
wasn't
> > standard practice. The Siamese Eights weren't running yet, but
laid out
> > bare in all their copper glory, in bet!
> > ween a shining Blue Meany and the quiet White Zombie.
The "Purple Phaze"
> > Datsun minitruck project was awaiting it's fate in a corner of
the
> > driveway, rustily oblivious to the racing reincarnation that's
coming
> > soon. It was all a bit much for a newbie to take in, and on the
way to
> > our next engagement, Tom kept shaking his head and saying, "You
kept
> > telling me, but some things just have to be seen"...
> >
> > Signing off,
> > Jay Donnaway
> > Vancouver WA
> > 1971 "Karmann Eclectric" Ghia
> >
> >
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
I don't know anything about the link10, but is your
wiring shielded ? it should be.
I've spent a ton of time over the last few months
chasing electrical noise around the car I have been
working on. A couple of high power AC drives were
wreaking havoc with both CAN and analog communication
lines.
Ideally you should shield both the high power wires
that are the noise 'source' and the communication
wires that you are trying to keep clean; but you can
probably get away with just doing the latter.
remember to ground the shield at one end only to avoid
ground loops. There are some rules of thumb for which
end you choose to ground but in the end our resident
electrical noise guru told me 'forget about the rules,
set it up so that you can ground either end, and then
just test to see which is better'
I suspect the readings you get off the link10 are
relatively slow to change so you can also filter out
the noise as victor suggested. Just make sure you
don't also filter out some part of the signal that you
want.
good luck.
~fortunat
--- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It works AOK with the null modem cable. Now for the
> next problem:
>
> it works fine when nothing else is on,
> it works fine when in start position (PS Pump and
> Vacuum pump going)
> is works fine when contactors engaged (Siemens AC
> system)
>
> However, when the forward or reverse switch is
> pressed to drive or reverse,
> the data become garbled. Each time I switch back to
> "neutral", the text
> becomes legible again.
>
> Noise? Should I put tin foil on my head?
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Joe Smalley
> Sent: June 13, 2005 10:26 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Link10 RS232
>
> Connect a dual color LED from pin 3 to pin 5.
>
> If the LED flickers every second, it means the data
> is flowing.
> If the LED comes on steady, it means the driver is
> connected but the data is
> not coming out.
> If the LED does not come on, my documentation might
> be wrong and you should
> run the same test from pin 2 to pin 5.
>
> Joe Smalley
> Rural Kitsap County WA
> Fiesta 48 volts
> NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:19 PM
> Subject: Link10 RS232
>
>
> > I just tried my Link10 with RS232, however no data
> is coming from the
> meter.
> > I have tried with two different laptops. Looking
> in the manual it does not
> > appear that I have to set any special parameters
> to turn it on.
> >
> > Suggestions?
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Don
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> >
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> <outbind://41/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
> >
>
>
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Have fun online with music videos, cool games, IM and more. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/online.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I realize this has been asked here before (recently) but I seem to
have lost the links. Can anyone point me to sources for hub motors of EV
size and smaller?
All input appreciated, Duncan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm sure he won't mind, as this is all in the name of science. So, in
theory, one could "adjust" the timing, with full current, to make the
vehicle start, stop and reverse, using just the timing mechanism?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Theory and practice are identical...In theory
----- Original Message -----
From: "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Dave" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dumb newby question time: Can you move the brushes (timing) so far
that the
motor does not operate or smoke? If so, could you use the timing
stick as a
controller?
Actualy if you go pasted a certain point you would in fact reverse
the motor direction as the leads would go from the 6:00 and 12:00
spots to the 3 and 9. I've never been given a chance to do this of
course but this is how I see it. We could cut the adjuster arm off
John's Beast motor and give it a try hehehe.
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
-
Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:19 PM
Subject: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
> Hello Listers and Lurkers,
> Here's an EV Travelogue from this past weekend, so proceed at
your
> leisure- if interested....
>
> I just concluded a very EVentful weekend, beginning with the
Friday
> delivery of 400 nicad cells to John Lussmyer on Whidbey Island.
The
> attractive log home holds a Cougar habitat that's bigger than my
first
> apartment, and is home to a 70 lb purring kitten that I would've
been
> happy to pet, if she hadn't been contentedly crunching on a
chicken
> carcass at the moment!.... On to the EV shop. Cougar John's place
is
> equipped with an arch-style building that could hold his entire
fleet, and
> besides all the usual electrical paraphernalia, he's got a WWII
vintage
> aircraft engine hoist that's perfect for straddling and lifting
just about
> any vehicle EVer made, with it's 20-ton capacity chain hoist and
elegantly
> simple wishbone design. From the looks of things, Cougar should
be able
> to show off a nicad-powered Sparrow in no time! ;-)
>
> We then rolled my much-relieved Ranger onward to Vancouver, BC
for a
> rendezvous with Al Godfrey. For those of you who haven't had the
pleasure
> of meeting Al, he's the sort of gentleman that anyone would've
loved to
> have as a grandfather or neighbor. From the open, yet cozy
contemporary
> home of stone and timber overlooking the Fraser River valley that
he and
> his wife Esther built with their own hands, to the remote-control
ElecTrak
> that quietly grooms the lawn, the Godfrey estate oozes
tranquility, until
> one glimpses the sinfully silver Porsche 928 lurking in the
garage out
> back. This immaculate car would fit in at any Porsche Concours,
but the
> craftsmanship, fit and finish on his EV conversion would also be
the envy
> of any amphead. Of course, vehicular hygiene is helped a bit by
the sano
> Siemens A/C setup from Victor and TWENTY-SIX sealed Optima blue
top
> batteries that were so skillfully secreted away in the dark
recesses of
> the 928, but juxtaposed against the three de!
> cades worth of groovy EV gizmos filling that old garage, the 928
looks
> more like it's emerging from the lair of a mad scientist than the
humble
> workshop of a retired engineer.
> Unfortunately, some erratic battery behavior has the Porsche on a
> stress-free diet, and we were unable to unleash it's horses, but
my EV
> Grin quickly reappeared with the arrival of Al's buddy from the
boonies,
> Alan Cumberlidge, who stopped by in his handbuilt Plymouth
Horizon for a
> battery boost before Saturday's show. Seeing as how an overnight
charge
> was forthcoming, we took a spirited drive around the
neighborhood, showing
> that not only will that old Omni beat any original 25 year-old
econoboxer
> on the road, but it will do so in silence, powered by an
early "before
> they put the squeal in" Curtis controller.
>
> Saturday brought showers to Vancouver, but it didn't dampen the
spirits of
> REV! participants, who put on a good showing despite the flukey
weather.
> What really makes this show a standout, (besides the rides in an
> immaculate 1912 Detroit Electric!) is the involvement at all
levels of the
> hobby. Electrathon racing continued in a seemingly endless cycle
of
> circles on the short track (the winners completed 120+ laps!),
while
> electric bicycle, scooter, and board buyers got test rides till
all comers
> were satisfied. Rich Rudman was there manning the charge
trailer, but the
> Madman was a little jumpy amidst all the liquid humidity, hopping
every
> time somebody clapped their hands or slammed a door with a
quick "WHAT
> POPPED!" He did get to blow off some steam by showing that
Goldie
> brought more to the show than just a pretty face, by laying
rubber all
> over the nice and clean electrathon track during an impromptu all-
EV
> parade.
>
> After Saturday's excitement and a yawn-inducing trek home, Sunday
brought
> an old friend into town. Tom is a professor of Aeronautical
Engineering
> and a test pilot at Mississippi State University, and though I
had been
> telling him about this stuff for years, there's nothing like a
visit to
> the Wayland Juice Bar to create a new EV Grin. We stopped by
John's place
> just in time to see the Yellow Monster unveiled. It truly was
amazing to
> see the handiwork that turned a junk-pile antique forklift motor
into the
> dynamically-timed monster that will no doubt claim it's place in
the NEDRA
> record books. Jim Husted's moveable brush rigging operated like
it had
> always been there, and watching that simple lever make dramatic
changes in
> motor RPM while hooked directly to the battery without a single
contactor,
> pot, or other controller sure made me wonder why this trick
wasn't
> standard practice. The Siamese Eights weren't running yet, but
laid out
> bare in all their copper glory, in bet!
> ween a shining Blue Meany and the quiet White Zombie.
The "Purple Phaze"
> Datsun minitruck project was awaiting it's fate in a corner of
the
> driveway, rustily oblivious to the racing reincarnation that's
coming
> soon. It was all a bit much for a newbie to take in, and on the
way to
> our next engagement, Tom kept shaking his head and saying, "You
kept
> telling me, but some things just have to be seen"...
>
> Signing off,
> Jay Donnaway
> Vancouver WA
> 1971 "Karmann Eclectric" Ghia
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I do not think I had enough beer to clearly state my issue. Now that it is
after 5PM though, let me try again:
My Link10 RS232 works fine, when
- all systems are off,
- OR, ignition is in "on" position, with PS Pump and Vacuum pump running
- OR, ignition is "started" (contactors engaged) with forward/reverse switch
in neutral.
However, when I put the forward/reverse switch in to either forward or
reverse, the data becomes garbled.
I am using a Siemens Simovert system. The connector from the Link10 to the
computer is approx 2m (6ft).
Any suggestions? Could it be noise? Is there a simple way to sheild the
cable? I assumed the cable is already sheilded but I do not know for sure.
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: June 14, 2005 11:48 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
It works AOK with the null modem cable. Now for the next problem:
it works fine when nothing else is on,
it works fine when in start position (PS Pump and Vacuum pump going) is
works fine when contactors engaged (Siemens AC system)
However, when the forward or reverse switch is pressed to drive or reverse,
the data become garbled. Each time I switch back to "neutral", the text
becomes legible again.
Noise? Should I put tin foil on my head?
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Smalley
Sent: June 13, 2005 10:26 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Link10 RS232
Connect a dual color LED from pin 3 to pin 5.
If the LED flickers every second, it means the data is flowing.
If the LED comes on steady, it means the driver is connected but the data is
not coming out.
If the LED does not come on, my documentation might be wrong and you should
run the same test from pin 2 to pin 5.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 6:19 PM
Subject: Link10 RS232
> I just tried my Link10 with RS232, however no data is coming from the
meter.
> I have tried with two different laptops. Looking in the manual it does
> not appear that I have to set any special parameters to turn it on.
>
> Suggestions?
>
> thanks
>
> Don
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
>
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/ <outbind://41/www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You could get one off of a diesel and have a vacuum pump in one little
package !
Scott
----- Original Message -----
From: "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Sunday, June 12, 2005 5:14 AM
Subject: RE: Alternator VS DC converter
>
> >
> >
> >Is there any reason a dc to dc converter would be better than just using
an
> >alternator off the opposite end of a traction motor?
> >
> >My Saab conversion will use an automatic transmission, (with lockup
torque
> >converter) requiring a "minimum" RPM anyway. It seems to me that the
> >alternator is more efficient than converting from the traction batteries,
> >and most of the converters I am seeing don't have a lot of current
> >capacity. In my case I have to use the shaft already for the PS pump.
>
> I don't have any hard numbers, but my guess would be that an alternator is
> less efficient than a DC-DC converter. With an alternator, you have
losses
> from three sources:
>
> 1. The traction motor ( usually 85-90 %)
>
> 2. the losses in the drive system ( usually a v-belt, and these generally
> have poor efficiency at low load - a lot of friction and heat in the belt
> and sheaves)
>
> 3. Losses in the alternator itself.,
>
>
> By using a DC-DCm you just have the losses in the converter itself.
>
> Anyone have real, measured numbers for these different types of losses?
>
>
> Also, I bet that the alternator ( with brackets and belt) would weight
more
> than the DC-DC) and be not as easy to mount. After all, you can put the
> DC-DC anywhere that is convenient.
>
>
> On the plus side for the alternator - they are generally very reliable,
and
> you can probably find a good used one cheap.
>
> Phil
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
> http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well you would go from total advance one way to full retard once it switched
but there would be a stall in between and that would be bad at even low curent
levels. I'm really brain dead right now from the trip but I just might have to
try it somehow just to see. I'm a show me kinda guy. When up to it, I'll post
some reactions from my forkilft customers from my drive home and motor pick up.
lots of EV grins. I even ran into a customer of mine that told me he ran into
a guy who claimed he had an EV that could smoke most ICE's. He told the guy he
was full of S$%T. We got to talking and it was Wayland he was talking about.
John had just given me a cd of his record run and well I got to prove John
right HOWS THAT! The guy turned beat red just smiling that "I can't believe
what I just saw" grin, it was truely a treat. I ended my show and tell with
"Thats the guy I'm building the motor for" and left with a very proud smile...
Cya all Jim Husted
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm sure he won't mind, as this is all in the name of science. So, in
theory, one could "adjust" the timing, with full current, to make the
vehicle start, stop and reverse, using just the timing mechanism?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Theory and practice are identical...In theory
----- Original Message -----
From: "hi_torque_electric"
To: "Dave"
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dave" wrote:
>> Dumb newby question time: Can you move the brushes (timing) so far
> that the
>> motor does not operate or smoke? If so, could you use the timing
> stick as a
>> controller?
>>
> Actualy if you go pasted a certain point you would in fact reverse
> the motor direction as the leads would go from the 6:00 and 12:00
> spots to the 3 and 9. I've never been given a chance to do this of
> course but this is how I see it. We could cut the adjuster arm off
> John's Beast motor and give it a try hehehe.
>
>
>
>> David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
>> Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
>> -
> Harold S.
>> Hulbert
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From:
>> To: ;
>> Cc: ;
>> Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:19 PM
>> Subject: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
>>
>>
>> > Hello Listers and Lurkers,
>> > Here's an EV Travelogue from this past weekend, so proceed at
> your
>> > leisure- if interested....
>> >
>> > I just concluded a very EVentful weekend, beginning with the
> Friday
>> > delivery of 400 nicad cells to John Lussmyer on Whidbey Island.
> The
>> > attractive log home holds a Cougar habitat that's bigger than my
> first
>> > apartment, and is home to a 70 lb purring kitten that I would've
> been
>> > happy to pet, if she hadn't been contentedly crunching on a
> chicken
>> > carcass at the moment!.... On to the EV shop. Cougar John's place
> is
>> > equipped with an arch-style building that could hold his entire
> fleet, and
>> > besides all the usual electrical paraphernalia, he's got a WWII
> vintage
>> > aircraft engine hoist that's perfect for straddling and lifting
> just about
>> > any vehicle EVer made, with it's 20-ton capacity chain hoist and
> elegantly
>> > simple wishbone design. From the looks of things, Cougar should
> be able
>> > to show off a nicad-powered Sparrow in no time! ;-)
>> >
>> > We then rolled my much-relieved Ranger onward to Vancouver, BC
> for a
>> > rendezvous with Al Godfrey. For those of you who haven't had the
> pleasure
>> > of meeting Al, he's the sort of gentleman that anyone would've
> loved to
>> > have as a grandfather or neighbor. From the open, yet cozy
> contemporary
>> > home of stone and timber overlooking the Fraser River valley that
> he and
>> > his wife Esther built with their own hands, to the remote-control
> ElecTrak
>> > that quietly grooms the lawn, the Godfrey estate oozes
> tranquility, until
>> > one glimpses the sinfully silver Porsche 928 lurking in the
> garage out
>> > back. This immaculate car would fit in at any Porsche Concours,
> but the
>> > craftsmanship, fit and finish on his EV conversion would also be
> the envy
>> > of any amphead. Of course, vehicular hygiene is helped a bit by
> the sano
>> > Siemens A/C setup from Victor and TWENTY-SIX sealed Optima blue
> top
>> > batteries that were so skillfully secreted away in the dark
> recesses of
>> > the 928, but juxtaposed against the three de!
>> > cades worth of groovy EV gizmos filling that old garage, the 928
> looks
>> > more like it's emerging from the lair of a mad scientist than the
> humble
>> > workshop of a retired engineer.
>> > Unfortunately, some erratic battery behavior has the Porsche on a
>> > stress-free diet, and we were unable to unleash it's horses, but
> my EV
>> > Grin quickly reappeared with the arrival of Al's buddy from the
> boonies,
>> > Alan Cumberlidge, who stopped by in his handbuilt Plymouth
> Horizon for a
>> > battery boost before Saturday's show. Seeing as how an overnight
> charge
>> > was forthcoming, we took a spirited drive around the
> neighborhood, showing
>> > that not only will that old Omni beat any original 25 year-old
> econoboxer
>> > on the road, but it will do so in silence, powered by an
> early "before
>> > they put the squeal in" Curtis controller.
>> >
>> > Saturday brought showers to Vancouver, but it didn't dampen the
> spirits of
>> > REV! participants, who put on a good showing despite the flukey
> weather.
>> > What really makes this show a standout, (besides the rides in an
>> > immaculate 1912 Detroit Electric!) is the involvement at all
> levels of the
>> > hobby. Electrathon racing continued in a seemingly endless cycle
> of
>> > circles on the short track (the winners completed 120+ laps!),
> while
>> > electric bicycle, scooter, and board buyers got test rides till
> all comers
>> > were satisfied. Rich Rudman was there manning the charge
> trailer, but the
>> > Madman was a little jumpy amidst all the liquid humidity, hopping
> every
>> > time somebody clapped their hands or slammed a door with a
> quick "WHAT
>> > POPPED!" He did get to blow off some steam by showing that
> Goldie
>> > brought more to the show than just a pretty face, by laying
> rubber all
>> > over the nice and clean electrathon track during an impromptu all-
> EV
>> > parade.
>> >
>> > After Saturday's excitement and a yawn-inducing trek home, Sunday
> brought
>> > an old friend into town. Tom is a professor of Aeronautical
> Engineering
>> > and a test pilot at Mississippi State University, and though I
> had been
>> > telling him about this stuff for years, there's nothing like a
> visit to
>> > the Wayland Juice Bar to create a new EV Grin. We stopped by
> John's place
>> > just in time to see the Yellow Monster unveiled. It truly was
> amazing to
>> > see the handiwork that turned a junk-pile antique forklift motor
> into the
>> > dynamically-timed monster that will no doubt claim it's place in
> the NEDRA
>> > record books. Jim Husted's moveable brush rigging operated like
> it had
>> > always been there, and watching that simple lever make dramatic
> changes in
>> > motor RPM while hooked directly to the battery without a single
> contactor,
>> > pot, or other controller sure made me wonder why this trick
> wasn't
>> > standard practice. The Siamese Eights weren't running yet, but
> laid out
>> > bare in all their copper glory, in bet!
>> > ween a shining Blue Meany and the quiet White Zombie.
> The "Purple Phaze"
>> > Datsun minitruck project was awaiting it's fate in a corner of
> the
>> > driveway, rustily oblivious to the racing reincarnation that's
> coming
>> > soon. It was all a bit much for a newbie to take in, and on the
> way to
>> > our next engagement, Tom kept shaking his head and saying, "You
> kept
>> > telling me, but some things just have to be seen"...
>> >
>> > Signing off,
>> > Jay Donnaway
>> > Vancouver WA
>> > 1971 "Karmann Eclectric" Ghia
>> >
>> >
>> >
>
---------------------------------
Discover Yahoo!
Get on-the-go sports scores, stock quotes, news & more. Check it out!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As a BLDC motor designer using hall devices for
commutation I can clearly see how position affects
operation. I actually twist the control in the motor
endbell to achieve best timing for the application.
With the clamp on ampmeter connected to input amps I
can see the average current change as I rotate the
control (same as moving the brush assembly). I time
the control under no load for minimum current. I then
put it on the dyno and re-time it under the max
operating condition.
It's really cool to see input amps change with
commutation angle, it's really simple to do this with
my BLDC drives. As you change angle the input current
spikes increase when you are not timed properly. As
you dial in the correct position the input current
spikes are reduced to a minimum. I'm sure this is the
same with brush motor timing.
Ideally you would want the timing to change with load
as Dennis Berube does with his dragster. This can be
done with software on my BLDC drives. It would be
nice to actually have the time to optimize this
concept on my drives. Time is not on my side however
:-)
Rod
--- hi_torque_electric <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Dave"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Dumb newby question time: Can you move the brushes
> (timing) so far
> that the
> > motor does not operate or smoke? If so, could you
> use the timing
> stick as a
> > controller?
> >
> Actualy if you go pasted a certain point you would
> in fact reverse
> the motor direction as the leads would go from the
> 6:00 and 12:00
> spots to the 3 and 9. I've never been given a
> chance to do this of
> course but this is how I see it. We could cut the
> adjuster arm off
> John's Beast motor and give it a try hehehe.
>
>
>
> > David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
> > Children need love, especially when they do not
> deserve it.
> >
> -
> Harold S.
> > Hulbert
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 12:19 PM
> > Subject: An EVentful Weekend (long & nontechnical)
> >
> >
> > > Hello Listers and Lurkers,
> > > Here's an EV Travelogue from this past weekend,
> so proceed at
> your
> > > leisure- if interested....
> > >
> > > I just concluded a very EVentful weekend,
> beginning with the
> Friday
> > > delivery of 400 nicad cells to John Lussmyer on
> Whidbey Island.
> The
> > > attractive log home holds a Cougar habitat
> that's bigger than my
> first
> > > apartment, and is home to a 70 lb purring kitten
> that I would've
> been
> > > happy to pet, if she hadn't been contentedly
> crunching on a
> chicken
> > > carcass at the moment!.... On to the EV shop.
> Cougar John's place
> is
> > > equipped with an arch-style building that could
> hold his entire
> fleet, and
> > > besides all the usual electrical paraphernalia,
> he's got a WWII
> vintage
> > > aircraft engine hoist that's perfect for
> straddling and lifting
> just about
> > > any vehicle EVer made, with it's 20-ton capacity
> chain hoist and
> elegantly
> > > simple wishbone design. From the looks of
> things, Cougar should
> be able
> > > to show off a nicad-powered Sparrow in no time!
> ;-)
> > >
> > > We then rolled my much-relieved Ranger onward to
> Vancouver, BC
> for a
> > > rendezvous with Al Godfrey. For those of you
> who haven't had the
> pleasure
> > > of meeting Al, he's the sort of gentleman that
> anyone would've
> loved to
> > > have as a grandfather or neighbor. From the
> open, yet cozy
> contemporary
> > > home of stone and timber overlooking the Fraser
> River valley that
> he and
> > > his wife Esther built with their own hands, to
> the remote-control
> ElecTrak
> > > that quietly grooms the lawn, the Godfrey estate
> oozes
> tranquility, until
> > > one glimpses the sinfully silver Porsche 928
> lurking in the
> garage out
> > > back. This immaculate car would fit in at any
> Porsche Concours,
> but the
> > > craftsmanship, fit and finish on his EV
> conversion would also be
> the envy
> > > of any amphead. Of course, vehicular hygiene is
> helped a bit by
> the sano
> > > Siemens A/C setup from Victor and TWENTY-SIX
> sealed Optima blue
> top
> > > batteries that were so skillfully secreted away
> in the dark
> recesses of
> > > the 928, but juxtaposed against the three de!
> > > cades worth of groovy EV gizmos filling that old
> garage, the 928
> looks
> > > more like it's emerging from the lair of a mad
> scientist than the
> humble
> > > workshop of a retired engineer.
> > > Unfortunately, some erratic battery behavior has
> the Porsche on a
> > > stress-free diet, and we were unable to unleash
> it's horses, but
> my EV
> > > Grin quickly reappeared with the arrival of Al's
> buddy from the
> boonies,
> > > Alan Cumberlidge, who stopped by in his
> handbuilt Plymouth
> Horizon for a
> > > battery boost before Saturday's show. Seeing as
> how an overnight
> charge
> > > was forthcoming, we took a spirited drive around
> the
> neighborhood, showing
> > > that not only will that old Omni beat any
> original 25 year-old
> econoboxer
> > > on the road, but it will do so in silence,
> powered by an
> early "before
> > > they put the squeal in" Curtis controller.
> > >
> > > Saturday brought showers to Vancouver, but it
> didn't dampen the
> spirits of
> > > REV! participants, who put on a good showing
> despite the flukey
> weather.
> > > What really makes this show a standout, (besides
> the rides in an
> > > immaculate 1912 Detroit Electric!) is the
> involvement at all
> levels of the
> > > hobby. Electrathon racing continued in a
> seemingly endless cycle
> of
> > > circles on the short track (the winners
> completed 120+ laps!),
> while
> > > electric bicycle, scooter, and board buyers got
> test rides till
> all comers
> > > were satisfied. Rich Rudman was there manning
> the charge
> trailer, but the
> > > Madman was a little jumpy amidst all the liquid
> humidity, hopping
> every
> > > time somebody clapped their hands or slammed a
> door with a
> quick "WHAT
> > > POPPED!" He did get to blow off some steam by
> showing that
> Goldie
> > > brought more to the show than just a pretty
> face, by laying
> rubber all
> > > over the nice and clean electrathon track during
> an impromptu all-
> EV
> > > parade.
> > >
> > > After Saturday's excitement and a yawn-inducing
> trek home, Sunday
> brought
> > > an old friend into town. Tom is a professor of
> Aeronautical
> Engineering
> > > and a test pilot at Mississippi State
> University, and though I
> had been
> > > telling him about this stuff for years, there's
> nothing
=== message truncated ===
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was using regen on my EV in 1996. I recorded all the emeter data from
those commutes. This was over eighty round trips with the same car over
nearly the same route each day.
I got 3% to 7% ampere hours back into the batteries depending on how many
red lights I encountered. The most I ever got was 8% with all red lights.
The minimum was 3% with no red lights. The 3% was the three stop signs.
There were 5 stop lights on the route. The speed limit was 25 to 50 MPH.
As a generalization, I got about 1% of my capacity back with each stop that
I used regen. If someone wants to do statistics, I can supply a LOT of data.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 14, 2005 2:39 PM
Subject: RE: regen value (was 'Instant' Hybrid idea)
> I am seeing about a 5% gain in regen - but I currently only use it fixed
at
> 20Amps. Since regen either comes with a system or does not, I do not see
> much use in arguing for it or against it. There are many more reasons
than
> just regen for purchasing a Siemens system.
>
> Also, I do not see much value in an "accurate" test, as regen varies
greatly
> with route, driver and conditions. The trials that Cliff and Victor have
> cited are for their cars, their routes (or race courses), their style of
> driving - too many variables to enumerate.
>
> Stu, what type of a system do you run now? Are you planning on getting a
> system with regen?
>
>
> Don
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
