EV Digest 4443
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Link10 RS232 - end of thread please
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
by David Murphy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Link10 RS232 - end of thread please
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Ev history, Freedom EV progress, Airships are cool!History
What-If dept.?
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Any Publicity is GOOD Publicity
by Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: wiring questions -
by jimevdl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Battery Monitoring
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Any Publicity is GOOD Publicity
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: wiring questions
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: wiring questions -
by John OConnor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Hot Rod ;-) GC motor questions, Re: Alltrax opinions?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: Alltrax opinions?
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Determination of actual battery pack capacity
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) RE: Link10 RS232 - Noise(?) still persists
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery Monitoring
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Induction motor questions;
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) emergency cutoff breaker wiring question
by Tony McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: I drag raced John Wayland and BLEW HIS DOORS OFF!!
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: emergency cutoff breaker wiring question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Lee,
This is so obvious, I don't know why am I typing this, but
there is an urge to clarify for everyone to balance
hysterical fear to be electricuted with reckless ignorance.
The key in all this is *to know* where exactly the danger is,
and then decide accordingly what to do about it.
You *know* there is lethal voltage across the pack, but you drive
an EV every day, no problem. You just don't touch it because
you know what will hapen.
Similarly if you *know* youi have a laptop which is constructed
such that has exposed metal parts, don't touch it as well.
For 2 min experiment it is not hard to remember and NOTHING
will happen if you DON'T touch it.
If there is a slight chance to touch it by accident or forget
about it, or have unsuspected passenger to grab it, or you're
just uncomfortable for non-technical reasons, of course
*insulate* it. Just plain common sense.
Let's move on, shell we?
Victor
Lee Hart wrote:
Andre' Blanchard wrote:
I think Victor was equating the fluke meter with the laptop. Whatever
voltage you are measuring is present in the meter that you are holding in
your hands.
Yes; but *ALL* multimeters are designed knowing the user will be
connecting the probes to "hot" circuits. So *ALL* multimeters are
designed with no touchable metal that could present any shock hazard.
But, every laptop I've ever seen has EXPOSED metal in all the I/O
connectors. So, it is easy to touch metal that is electrically connected
to the internal wiring.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using that controller on my 72 volt CitiCar. I love it. It is
actually capable of more than its 450 amp rating. It's programmable
in several respects. The built-in datalogging is very handy to figure
out what is going on. Highly recommended.
John
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:57:58 -0400, Duncan Orthner
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>Hello All,
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers? I'm
>working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
>considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
>the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
>
>Cheers, Duncan
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They are working with AC Propulsion in Southern CA.
David
On Jun 17, 2005, at 6:54 AM, Don Cameron wrote:
Anybody know what kind of motor and batteries they are running in this
car?
On its web site it says:
180kW air cooled
Fixed ratio of 9.58:1
0-100Kmh (0-60mph) in 4.5s
Top speed of 170kmh 106mph
Its' weight is 1100kg (2420lbs) with 58kWh (100) LiIon batteries which
weigh
320kg
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Wujek
Sent: June 17, 2005 5:30 AM
To: EV List
Subject: article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
about the Michelin-Bibendum 180km rally in Kyoto:
link:
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=12461
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/17/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lee,
>
> This is so obvious, I don't know why am I typing this, but
> there is an urge to clarify for everyone to balance
> hysterical fear to be electricuted with reckless ignorance.
Absolutely, and I hope no-one minds my last post on the subject either.
> The key in all this is *to know* where exactly the danger is,
> and then decide accordingly what to do about it.
Well, I agree with that, so to be honest your attitude on this one
surprises me. Here's what you wrote previously, in a thread about
charger isolation:
[..]
Just tell me if our kids *can possibly* ever get shocked, period?
I would be lying saying not a chance with non-isolated charger,
so I said it is unlikely but >0% chance.
So she asked to get rid of this thing (a charger) or get rid
of this car then. And, you know what? In her shoes she's right.
The more technical you get trying to explain and convince non-technical
people, the more frightened they get, because they must trust you.
[..]
What were you saying to me about "emotional arguments" and "paranoia"
a few messages back?
>
> You *know* there is lethal voltage across the pack, but you drive
> an EV every day, no problem. You just don't touch it because
> you know what will hapen.
>
> Similarly if you *know* youi have a laptop which is constructed
> such that has exposed metal parts, don't touch it as well.
> For 2 min experiment it is not hard to remember and NOTHING
> will happen if you DON'T touch it.
But Victor, even your laptop must have connectors, and perhaps a metal
latch to hold the lid closed, and these too are now a potential lethal
hazard if there is a slight leakage current somewhere else.
Or, here's another one: in Don's case it sounded like he had at least
loosely connected the pack negative to the vehicle chassis, through
his E-meter, PC and either its PSU or the serial cable to the Siemens
drive. No matter how careful you are with the laptop, one end of the
pack is now tied to the car chassis. Is that safe? If no one has
warned you, you're far more likely to get zapped by a pack connection.
At the very least it's a recipe for blowing up expensive electronics.
> If there is a slight chance to touch it by accident or forget
> about it, or have unsuspected passenger to grab it, or you're
> just uncomfortable for non-technical reasons, of course
> *insulate* it. Just plain common sense.
But from earlier in the thread you said:
[..]
Input isolation in his case needed for noise reduction, not safety concerns.
There is no part of laptop you can receive the shock from.
[..]
Glad you've changed your mind!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was, at one time an idea on building airships with a lifting body
shape for carrying passengers. They were not intended to ever land except
for when maintenance was required that was not possible to do in the
air. Passengers, and fuel were to be brought up in planes that could dock
with the airship.
____________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
At 10:21 AM 6/17/2005, you wrote:
Hi Bob, Andrew, and All,
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Letton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Fw: AeroVironment motor, Airships are
> cool!
>
>
> > It appears that modern day Zeppelin-NTs were
> approved for passenger
> > service in 1997 and are now in tourist and general
> passenger service in
> > Germany and Japan...
> > See:
> >
>
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t4607.html
> > http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/index_e.htm
> > cheers,
Too see what I mean about airships not going to
ever carry passengers long distance watch the news
tonight as another Goodyear blimp crashed just in time
to prove my point. They have terrible safety records
for the number of flights they take. Even worse than
helicopters which is so bad you won't catch me in
either.
As sailboat sailor, I know about handling in
weather and to handle that big of sail area an airship
has that you can't reef is just asking for trouble.
However as an unmaned EV high altitude satelite
subsitute which can fly above the weather and rarely
has to come down, say 1x/yr when you can pick your
weather for landing, then they are a great idea.
But for scheduled passenger service where they must
land in whatever weather, then they are not viable, EV
or not.
And it would be very hard to take a large passenger
airship with a pressurized cabin to above the weather
as cargo cap is greatly reduced as you go higher up.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, That isn't exactly true, like the Electrathon crash and rescue in
Portland OR. a few weeks ago...
But this Sunday, Fathers day, 4 radio stations will air a half hour
interview that I gave on all subjects EV !! I feel it was the BEST
interview I have ever given... and over the last 25 years that has been
my specialty. Not welding, not electronic engineering, but
talking-the-talk. From soap-box to church pulpit.
For those NOT in the Seattle area, you can go to our SEVA web site,
sub-page "NEWS" and down load the MP3 file.
http://www.seattleeva.org/slough/SanduskyRadioInterviewSmall.mp3
Our web guru Ryan, has shrunk-and-compressed what was 30 megs in Stereo
down to a fast down load of only 7.5
Can't tell you how I felt walking out of the interview... Like... I
had just beat a $300,000. dollar Ferrari in a drag race in my ELECTRIC
Sports Car !! NO... Like we just sold 20 electric cars to MICROSOFT
and the Check just Cleared !!! Yaahh... something like that..
For the Local Radio Listeners Here are the call signs, times, and
frequencies:
on KLSY (Klassy !) 92.5 FM at 5 a.m.
on KIXI 880 AM, at 5:30 a.m.
on KWJZ (Cool Jazz) on 98.9 FM at 6 a.m.
and on KKNW 1150 AM, at 7 a.m.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is all about the slip.
At stall a regular induction motor has 60Hz of slip. If the
bars are deep(class D, high resistance) , this creates a longer
induction path reduceing inrush current and a larger magnetic component
causeing more torque. Good for starting air compressors or other things
subject to load.
The Class A motor has shallower bars(low resistance), more
inrush current and less starting torque but slips less at speed, so more
efficient
To get varible speed out of the AC motor, and maintain a good amount of
torque, we need to adjust the frequecy, adjusting the voltage is not
enough.
A standard induction motor will run fine on a VFD up to about 150% of
base rpm, probably; but most VFD's run the 5 to 400hz range and the
laminations must be thinner and materials better to minimize losses,
disapate heat or you will have a meltdown.
A Vector drive lowers the frequency for those low slip conditions and
also adjusts the output current to the minimum necessary to do the work.
this is more efficient and keeps the rotor from melting at part
throttle. It requires a high count resolver to know the rotor position
in thousands of pulses per rpm and a processor(DSP) that can handle that
input. THis is why six step is popular with BLDC,BLAC motors, The rotor
field is fixed, fancy software and control doesn't have much of a
return on the investment.
So inverter grade motors are designed for high frequency then run at
lower frequency for speed control, running a motor designed for low freq
at high frequency is not 'efficient.'
<dream>
But what if I could change the rotor resistance at will? Start off with
high resistance to get high torque then transition to low resistance to
create variable speed, then inject voltage to cause snycronous lock in
to cruise with zero slip? This is the slip-ring or wound rotor AC
motor, Still used on crazy stuff like rock crushers. The VFD almost
killed this technology, but I think it still has areas of superiority.
Like a drag race AC motor. A high curent AC motor that pulls like a
series DC off the line and continues to pull into the high rpm's. Ad a
little slipring energy recovery and it is efficient and easy to control.
</dream>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John
I agree completely with Philip. I spent hours looking at the Toyota manual,
then comparing to reality in the car, to make sure I knew which wire was which.
I carefully dissected various engine harnesses, labeling just about
everything. In the end, I saved very few wires from the engine harness. Some
are still there, taped off for future use, like temp sensors to the dash temp
gauge, etc. I found that most of the signals to the car computer (this is a
1992 vintage OBD-I style) were just inputs for it to decide injector timing,
etc, and thus I was able to remove it from the car. The airbag and body
control functions are done in separate modules.
The good news from all this work, was that all my 12volt systems worked
flawlessly when I hooked my DC/DC up to where the alternator used to be. (ok
my dome light still doesn't work, but I don't remember if it ever worked before
I started the conversion).
Best regards, Jim Seibert
1992 Celica with 1600 EV miles
-----Original Message-----
From: Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jun 16, 2005 4:14 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: wiring questions -
If you don't already have it, it would be worth it to get a copy of the
factory wiring diagram to help answer that question. For my Toyota Echo
conversion, this is a 180 page book that shows all the circuits and what
everything does, including every connection on every connector in the car.
I found a copy on EBay for about $20. It is very complete and well
written ( if a bit oddly phrased, at times, probably because of being
translated from Japanese) Your Nissan's wiring diagram would probably be
similar
With that to look at - and it took some time to go over it and be sure - I
removed the engine computer (they call it ECU) and a LOT of wiring. In my
case, I did not need the computer. At first I thought is processed the
speedo signal, but it ends up that the speedo signal is processed and
displayed in the dash console unit (independently of the ECU) , and the
speedo signal is then sent to the ECU for other purposes.
I ended up tracing and labeling all of the wires in the engine compartment
and dash that I did need, and carefully removed most of the rest.
Also, if you plan to use existing wiring and switches for EV-related
purposes ( example - clutch switch to make clutch is depressed when car is
powered up - for safety, existing AC switch to control PTC heater element,
etc) the factory wiring diagram is well worth the price.
Phil
>From: John OConnor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: [email protected]
>To: [email protected]
>Subject: wiring questions
>Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 13:20:28 -0700 (PDT)
>
>I am looking for some input on wiring options for my
>conversion.
>
>What are the benefits and drawbacks of removing the
>engine control computer (ECCS for my vehicle) and many
>of the no longer used wires associated with the ICE?
>
>It would give me a cleaner look, but I am somewhat
>concerned out breaking circuits that I will need.
>
>My vehicle is a 86.5 nissan king kab pickup and I will
>be instlling a Zilla 1K, 9 inch ADC motor, a PFC-30
>charger and a DCDC converter.
>
>The dash has already been removed to get at the heater
>core, therefore I have easy access to 95% of the
>original wire bundles and harnesses.
>
>Thanks in advance.
>
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i have this one 72V450A with a Lemco in my 140kg maxi scooter, work like a
charm, fully adjustable, a bargain at this price.
alltrax people are great, with perfect service: they change my never used
old model for new one (better permanent motor support) 15 days before the 2
years warantie end.
They charge me near nothing to do so... despite i still have problem finding
how to pay them so low fee (about $20) from other the pond :^(
important note: i'm in france
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Orthner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 3:57 PM
Subject: Alltrax opinions?
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers?
I'm
> working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
> considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
> the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
>
> Cheers, Duncan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi John and All,
--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I'm using that controller on my 72 volt CitiCar. I
> love it. It is
> actually capable of more than its 450 amp rating.
> It's programmable
> in several respects. The built-in datalogging is
> very handy to figure
> out what is going on. Highly recommended.
I talked to a motor manufacturer who sells them
too and in his tests, they put out only slightly more,
about 460amps, not 600 like you said in past posts.
How did you determind it put out more? I'd
really like a 600 amp one if available for my twin
motor set up ;-))
Thanks,
Jerry Dyucs
>
> John
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I know that there have been some simple circuits that will at least tell
you which battery is having problems.
Is there one of these that might work for 1.2v NiCd cells?
I need to start working with my BB600's, but don't want to reverse a
cell. I'd also like to test more than 4 at a time.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for posting that. I enjoyed listening to that
interview. I'm guessing there will be more in the future?
Might get the horsepower freaks more interested if you get
the chance to actually cover more in-depth how an electric
motor behaves, in contrast to an ICE.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John, I asked the same question of the list during our conversion. Most
listers were concerned that if we removed anything from a late model car,
all the electronics would fail to work. We did it anyways and it was very
successful. The ECU had to be left in the car, as the New VW Beetle has 3
car computers (ECU, instrument and comfort control) and they all seemed to
fail if one was removed from the loop. Other than that, we were able to
remove **a lot** of wiring and equipment.
This web page has the document of the process:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_InterfacingToElectrical.html
This web page has how we interfaced to various sensors:
http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/EV_IndexElectrical.html
Good luck
Don
P.S. As most people have mentioned, the factory manual is priceless.
Haynes and Chilton manuals are OK, but nowhere near as useful as the
original factory manual.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John OConnor
Sent: June 16, 2005 1:20 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: wiring questions
I am looking for some input on wiring options for my conversion.
What are the benefits and drawbacks of removing the engine control computer
(ECCS for my vehicle) and many of the no longer used wires associated with
the ICE?
It would give me a cleaner look, but I am somewhat concerned out breaking
circuits that I will need.
My vehicle is a 86.5 nissan king kab pickup and I will be instlling a Zilla
1K, 9 inch ADC motor, a PFC-30 charger and a DCDC converter.
The dash has already been removed to get at the heater core, therefore I
have easy access to 95% of the original wire bundles and harnesses.
Thanks in advance.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks to all that replied.
I do in fact have the factory service manual for my vehicle, but I wanted a
reality check before investing even more time trying to figure out the
circuits. I have noticed a few that do not seem to match what is in the book.
For example the connector to the ignition switch has a harness with 6 spots. On
the end that goes to the ignition 5 are used, however the other half of the
harnes has only 4 of the 6 spots used which is what the manual shows.
Given the response that people have given, removing all the extra wires is the
norm or at least not unusual, so I will probable continue to my progress in
removing as much excess wiring as possible.
Both the Zilla manual and the book Convert it refer to a key switch input. Is
this a circuit that is closed when the key is in the on position or when the
key is in the ignition?
Thanks for now, I'm sure I'll have more questions as reconstruction of the
vehicle begins in earnest.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That's what the datalog output said. I have not independently
measured the motor current.
John
On Fri, 17 Jun 2005 11:22:12 -0700 (PDT), jerry dycus
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Hi John and All,
>
>--- Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> I'm using that controller on my 72 volt CitiCar. I
>> love it. It is
>> actually capable of more than its 450 amp rating.
>> It's programmable
>> in several respects. The built-in datalogging is
>> very handy to figure
>> out what is going on. Highly recommended.
>
> I talked to a motor manufacturer who sells them
>too and in his tests, they put out only slightly more,
>about 460amps, not 600 like you said in past posts.
> How did you determind it put out more? I'd
>really like a 600 amp one if available for my twin
>motor set up ;-))
> Thanks,
> Jerry Dyucs
>
>
>>
>> John
>
>
>
>
>____________________________________________________
>Yahoo! Sports
>Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
>http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The GE number for the motor below is the 5BC48JB509C. On that motor the class
B is the temp rating and tells me that it has only cloth wrap and not
fiberglass. The numbers you gave are from an OEM GE tag. GE makes note of the
size of the motor with in their number. The "48" in 5BC48JB509C tells the size
(it?s a 6 inch series). Now GE makes many larger motors, same diameter, but
longer in the "49" series size, and they able to push more load. Big GE motors
start with "5BT", with the following numbers describing the different sizes in
that class or diameter. Now with the smaller GE's, there are 2 types. Short
comm., and long comm. The long comm's have twice as long of a comm. and
therefore able to handle a load better. My advice is not to mess with short
comm?s, as they just won't handle a load as well. On top of having a smaller
comm., the brush has only one lead compared to a double leaded brush for a long
comm. And the last straw is a thin sheet metal brush hol!
der that
warps when heated, where as the long comm's have heavy cast brass holders (at
least the older ones do. The newer ones have a thin brass sheet metal holder.
(Yeah for new stuff : ( not!) Long comm's are about 1 1/4 inches long and the
shorts are but 3/4 inches as an est. for you all to tell.
Now for the tough stuff! Both 49 and 48 series motor can have the fields
plumbed series, or parallel. If you see 2 leads coming from the fields to the
terminal (just look inside the motor housing) they are parallel and if only one
field wire is connected to the terminal its plumbed series. Series wound coils
are slower but run fewer amps. John's 8's are run parallel and is what I
believe you looking for.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Rod and All,
--- Roderick Wilde wrote:
> Alltrax makes a very quality controller that is
> programmable, waterproof,
> and quite efficient. You are on the right track.
> More voltage equals more
> speed. More amps equals more torque. Check out our
> shop golf cart, a 1990 G2
> Yamaha doing wheel stands running a stock 3.5 hp
> motor running on 120 volts
> with a special 900 amp controller at:
I too am building 2 GC transaxle based EV's and
want to know what other motors I can put in it to
increase my speeds.
One has a motor of unknown parentage from a very
old Ez-go 3wh with numbers like as they are on the
label,
5BC48JB509C 2800rpm
ClassB
35 55
75C INT
Series 48 3122
BM569 S
Is this a rebuilt GE? Voltage? Amps?
The axle is the same as my other old 3wh Ez-go
with a Textron 5BC48JB700C 2800rpm, 36vdc though the
first has the brake on the motor and the second has
the brakes on the axles.
With these part numbers are they GE's?
I assume these don't have axle side motor
bearings?
How strong are these motors?
I intend on running them at 72vdc with field
weakening to get higher speeds if nessasary.
On the first one I get 30mph on 60vdc but
probably sagging to 40vdc or so at the motor because
of funky batts, cables, controller.
My goal is 60 mph if possible using 24" dia tires
as it now has.
I think I'll need new motor to do that but can I
get 45 mph with the present ones reliably?
The first will have fair aero and the second
really good aero and both low frontal area.
For course building the bodies from wood/epoxy
finished clear. One a pick-up style and the other
tandem aero style and intend to sell them to raise
cash for my Freedom EV project and clear some stuff
out of the yard ;-)).
Are there any off the shelf reasonably priced
lights, horn, ect, electrical harness/fuse box/dash
switches systems available to make them legal for road
use?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
http://www.suckamps.com/images/build_team_vehicles/GolfCartWheelie.mov
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
These controllers are great, and when they do break, Alltrax stands by their
warranty. Mine failed rather dramatically after about a year and they
replaced it no problem. Of course what do you expect from a guy named Damon
who is partial to EV's:-)
damon
From: Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Alltrax opinions?
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 09:57:58 -0400
Hello All,
Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers? I'm
working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
Cheers, Duncan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cory R. Cross wrote:
> 1) Does the class matter when you use a VFD?
In typical AC powerline usage, the motor is powered straight off the AC
line (fixed frequency, fixed voltage). The designer picks the class to
get the desired torque-speed characteristics. Basically, they add
impedance (resistance and/or inductance) to the rotor windings. Class A
has the least impedance; so it is the most efficient and lowest slip,
but has the least starting torque. Class D has the most impedance; so
the most starting torque, but highest slip and lowest efficiency.
In an EV, the motor is used with a variable-frequency variable-voltage
inverter. The inverter provides a second, more efficient way to control
torque and speed. So most inverter-grade motors have low-resistance
class-A rotors.
> 2) Are typical EV motors one of these classes or just not rated
> like this?
They are closest to class A. However, most EV motors are special,
limited production devices. They don't worry about designing them to fit
any of the industry-standard NEMA classes. There's a long list of
changes to make a motor suitable for use in an EV:
- nonstandard voltage windings (to suit the inverter and battery
pack voltage)
- higher-temperature insulation (to survive long periods at low
speeds and high torque)
- extra insulation (to survive voltage transients due to square wave
operation)
- better bearings (to survive higher rpm)
- stronger rotor construction and better balancing (also for high
rpm)
- liquid cooling (instead of the normal air cooling)
- lighter weight construction
- special shafts to mate with automotive transaxles
> 3) Anyone used standard industrial 230/460V 3PH motors before?
Yes, it's been done successfully. It's what you do if you don't have a
big budget, and aren't trying to get the ultimate in efficiency and
performance. You'll either modify the motor yourself to have as many of
the above features as possible; or accept the motor as it is, and design
around its limitations.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Reverend Gadget wrote:
> Has anybody ever tried one of the advanced battery
> conductance analyzers?
The March 31, 2005 issue of EDN Magazine has an application note for
building a battery internal resistance measurer. The title is "Dynamic
Load circuit determins a battery's internal resistance" by Jim Williams
of Linear Technology Corp.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> i have this one 72V450A with a Lemco in my 140kg maxi scooter, work like a
> charm, fully adjustable, a bargain at this price.
> alltrax people are great, with perfect service: they change my never used
> old model for new one (better permanent motor support) 15 days before the 2
> years warantie end.
> They charge me near nothing to do so... despite i still have problem finding
> how to pay them so low fee (about $20) from other the pond :^(
>
> important note: i'm in france
>
> cordialement,
> Philippe
Since you mentioned permanent magnet motors, ny idea if Alltrax makes (or plans
to make) a regen controller for PM motors?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don Cameron [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Roger, know of any places I can order an RS232 isolator in
> Canada? Most on the web are mail order from the states. Don
You really don't need to order one; the commercially available ones are
overkill (handle bi-directional data flow and much higher baud rates
than the E-Meter's 9600bps) and cost accordingly.
Here are the "plans" for a suitable isolator:
> From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: April 21, 2003 9:40 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Available E-Meter/Link 10 Opto-isolator?
[snip]
> Here is the circuit I am using (view with fixed width font):
>
> optocoupler _____________________ PC DE9M
> E-meter DE9F ____ 4N35 | _|_ _|_ _|_ _|_ 1uF
> connector | _|_ |/ /_\ /_\ /_\ ___
> | /_\ | | | | |_____ GND pin 5
> 2.7k | | |\ ___|_____|_____|_____|_____ RD pin 2
> TD pin 3 ___/\/\___|____| | |_____|_____|_____|_____ TD pin 3
> | | | | |_____|_____|_____ DTR pin 4
> | _|_ |/ | | |_____|_____ RTS pin 7
> | /_\ | _|_ _|_ _|_ _|_
> COM pin 5 _________|____| |\ /_\ /_\ /_\ ___ 1uF
> optocoupler |___|_____|_____|_____|
> 4N35 all diodes 1N4148
>
> Note: |_ or _| indicates where _|_ indicates where
> | | wires DO connect | wires do NOT connect
>
> The E-meter side is trivial. When the TD pin is high, the LED
> in the upper optocoupler is on. When TD is low, the LED in
> the lower optocoupler is on.
>
> On the PC side, the upper 3 diodes and capacitor are trying
> find at least one output pin from the PC that is high, and
> use its voltage to charge the upper capacitor to serve as a
> positive power supply. Likewise, the lower 3 diodes and
> capacitor are trying to find at least one output pin (TD,
> DTR, or RTS) that is low, and use its voltage to charge the
> lower capacitor to serve as a negative power supply.
>
> Once these capacitors are charged, then the PC's RD pin is
> either pulled high whe the upper optocoupler is on, or pulled
> low when the lower optocoupler is on.
>
> To make this work, the PC's software has to set at least one
> of the pins (TD, RTS, DTR) high, and one of them low. TD is
> normally low when you are not sending data. So that means the
> software must set RTS and/or DTR high. If you can't do this,
> then you must have the TD pin constantly send data so there
> is a high/low signal for the diodes to rectify.
If you haven't got the parts onhand, and don't have a decent
electronics supply place in Victoria that you can pick this stuff up at,
contact me offlist and I'll mail you the parts on the weekend as I've
got them all on hand. If I've got both genders of DB9, I might even
assemble the thing for you before sending it off ;^> Digikey's shipping
charge is greater than the parts cost for this...
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Lussmyer wrote:
> I know that there have been some simple circuits that will at
> least tell you which battery is having problems. Is there one
> of these that might work for 1.2v NiCd cells?
A nicad cell is "dead" when it falls below 1.0v. This happens to be the
threshold voltage for an infrared LED. So, an easy undervoltage monitor
would be to wire an optocoupler's LED and a series resistor across each
cell. Wire all these optocoupler's phototransistor outputs together to
your monitoring circuit. It could be as simple as having all of them in
series, with an LED; then as soon as any cell goes under 1.0v, the LED
goes off, the phototransistor turns off, and an alarm is tripped.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:15 AM 17/06/05 -0700, Lee Hart wrote:
Cory R. Cross wrote: <snip>
> 3) Anyone used standard industrial 230/460V 3PH motors before?
Yes, it's been done successfully. It's what you do if you don't have a
big budget, and aren't trying to get the ultimate in efficiency and
performance. You'll either modify the motor yourself to have as many of
the above features as possible; or accept the motor as it is, and design
around its limitations.
A local EVer has done a Mini using one - it goes OK, but he used a standard
415V 25hp 50Hz motor, and a 600V inverter with 492V of batteries (600V ish
peak). Since the voltage available relative to the motor voltage has little
'headroom' he runs out of 'go' at around 65hz. At lower RPMs he lacks
horsepower, so he has to use the gears, then due to the ratios he runs out
of ability to accelerate at 85km/h.
He should have used a lower base voltage motor, or a higher voltage battery
pack, which would have given him the greater headroom to get more motor
RPM. Motor speed feedback would help, too. But it does regen *great* - up
to 50A at 600V (30kW!).
Unfortunately he believed the salesman who told him the batteries were self
regulating - 5000km and down to less than half range.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've had to move my emergency breaker switch and I was wondering
if anyone thought there was preference (or difference) in the
two wiring options below. My car has be wired with Option 1
for years, but since I have to make a couple of new cables
and the motor/controller diagrams I was looking at recently
used the second option, I figured it was worth asking for
the opinion of the collected experts on this list :-)
Key
BS = breaker switch
FS = Fuse
P1 = back battery pack 60v
p2 = front pack 42v
CON = contactor
Option 1
Neg(-) P1 pos(+)--FS--BS---neg(-) P2 pos(+)----CON-->...
|
.--------------------------------------------FS---->...
Option 2
Neg(-) P1 pos(+)--FS--neg(-) P2 pos(+)---BS---CON-->...
|
.--------------------------------------------FS--->...
--
Tony McCormick
"Drive Electric, Play Bluegrass, Learn the way of the Sword"
see it all at: http://www.notebene.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they are 640 x400's I'll post them on my site. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:48 PM
Subject: RE: I drag raced John Wayland and BLEW HIS DOORS OFF!!
I've got a couple pictures of the bike, but they're not that great. If no
one else from that evening has any pictures, I'd be happy to post.
Anybody
know where I can put them so that folks on the list can see them?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of allstar5548
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 1:02 PM
To: Richard Rau
Subject: Re: I drag raced John Wayland and BLEW HIS DOORS OFF!!
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
John hosted a fun and informative EV gathering at his place this last
Sunday.
Little did he know when I arrived from Corvallis that I had brought a
machine that would put him in his rightful place. The drag strip was a
little shorter than we wanted, but we went full-on anyway. When the
smoke
cleared, all I could see in my rear view mirror was John struggling
desperately to stay within a furlong of me as I crossed the finish line.
Gloatingly,
Richard not-a-newbie-anymore Rau
Any pictures of your car, specs, etc. ???? A video would of been great.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm going to use a similar configuration and would like to ask a few more
questions.
I will be using a higher voltage pack (300v+) as one string, no parallel
strings.
(apologies to Lee on my artwork)
Neg(-) Rear Pack pos(+)---FS---CON-->...
| |
FS Charger
| |
Pos(+) Front Pack Neg(-)--FS---CON-->...
1. I plan on using contactors on both sides of the pack, is this overkill?
2. Should I use a fuse next to each contactor also?
3. I intend to connect the charger just inside the pack side of the contactors,
is this the right
spot?
4. I plan on splitting each pack (front and rear) with a fuse. Is that overkill?
5. Should I use the breaker switch in the same relative position as Tony,
between the fuses and
the contactors?
6. Should the fuses all be the same rating, based on full pack voltage and
anticipated current?
Thanks
Dave Cover
--- Tony McCormick <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Key
> BS = breaker switch
> FS = Fuse
> P1 = back battery pack 60v
> p2 = front pack 42v
> CON = contactor
>
> Option 1
>
> Neg(-) P1 pos(+)--FS--BS---neg(-) P2 pos(+)----CON-->...
> |
> .--------------------------------------------FS---->...
>
> Option 2
>
> Neg(-) P1 pos(+)--FS--neg(-) P2 pos(+)---BS---CON-->...
> |
> .--------------------------------------------FS--->...
--- End Message ---
