EV Digest 4442
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Speaking of E-meters
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
2) Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise still persists (now, Electrocution)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: The PFC40L charger, Quick charging
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) RE: You need a welder - connecting 2 110vac circuits. No O-scope
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: lightweight 4wd Vehicles (was Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.)
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: lightweight 4wd Vehicles (was Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Ron Freund)
8) Re: lightweight 4wd Vehicles (was Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.)
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
9) Re: lightweight 4wd Vehicles (was Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.)
by Emil Naepflein <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Speaking of E-meters
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise still persists
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise still persists
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise(?) still persists
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Fw: AeroVironment motor, Airships are cool!History What-If dept.?
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Alltrax opinions?
by Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) 66 VW fastback for conversion in California
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Alltrax opinions?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Ev history, Freedom EV progress, Airships are cool!History What-If dept.?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Hot Rod ;-) GC motor questions, Re: Alltrax opinions?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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<<< Where can one get one plus a scaler and a shunt? Got a project that's
going to need some measurments.
Chris>>>
Now that you mention it, I remember seeing one for sale on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5781545887
P.S. - Do people hate the Curtis whine at low speeds *so much* that they will
pay **more** than a 1221C's retail cost new and with warrantee to get a used
1221B: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5982185128 ...?
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Otmar wrote:
Wow Victor!
Comparing the insulation of a DMM to a Notebook. That's quite a stretch!
I'm not a notebook expert, and not suggesting use of those which have
metal parts exposed! I was talking about mine, one - old compaq contura
325 and Toshiba something (I forgor), both totally plastic like a DMM.
You claim that your pack is insulated from the Chassis. But you seem to
be forgetting that it's only DC isolation.
I'm not forgetting this, but you should know better Otmar than
6kHz ripple on the power cables will not shock anyone via capacitance.
My fluke is rated to be safely used at 1000V. As was said before but you
seemed to ignore, they are designed to do that. Yet, anything I've seen
with exposed connections like a laptop is good for no more than 50V.
I'll take a careful look at mine tonight. Any DB9 has metal shell
around and plastic mould. I'll see how easy it is to get to it.
Also, remember, Don wanted to do a one time measurement, not use or
install a notebook in his car.
My laptop,
^^^^^^^^^
This is key words. Not mine.
... and I think this applies to all current Apple Powerbooks and
more rugged PC laptops as well, is an all aluminum case and it is
grounded to the computer system ground. At least it's easy to imagine
the potential problem there.
My fault to generalize. If your or anyone else's laptop has easy to
touch chassis, my suggestion does not apply to these.
I would use *my* laptop because it happen to be built like a fluke.
May be it was unique, I don't know.
I have a junky laptop here too, this one happens to be a Vaio. It may
give the illusion of safety since it's plastic, but you would only have
to grab it by the side (as is natural when adjusting the screen angle)
to hit the grounded Firewire port with bare skin. There are several
places just like that all around it.
See above.
I agree with the others. It's very unwise to collect data from a E-Meter
without a isolation stage in-line first.
It's very unwise and unsafe to discharge John's controller's caps
with second Zilla too. And you did it in front of all the spectators
on woodburn track, remember?
So, I agree. I assumed Don had to put his laptop on the seat to collect
some data for a few regen instances. You can run SIADIS and put laptop
on the seat and THEN turn the car on run it, watch the screen,
stop it turn it off. No need to touch laptop at all. If this
assumption is correct, no need for isolation, it is good only for
peace of mind *in such case*. But my assumption may not be
correct, and then advise does not apply.
On the bright side it could win you a Darwin award! But unfortunately
Darwin award recipients generally don't live to enjoy them.
If you're trying to be sarcastic or funny, pick another target.
I know my stuff and am alive and well.
In case I didn't make my point clear:
Please do not follow Victors advice on this!
It could be fatal. I'm not exaggerating.
I don't remember advising using non insulated equipment
if it can shock you (like your or Don's laptop). This would be
indeed unwise. If it CANNOT shock you (like mine laptop and
again, sorry if I implied that ALL laptops are like flukes,
they arent), then I have no problem with my advise.
I said if your hardware safe (as was mine), use it.
This obviously implies that if it is NOT safe, DON'T use it.
I'm sure it is obvious to you too, but we both know well why
you choose to use your Darwin jokes replying to me, don't we?
This is second time you are doing this on the list Otmar,
and it rather reflects on you. Will leave it at that.
To all: use your brains and common sense when decide.
Any suggestions from anyone may or may not apply to you,
depending if the person suggesting can clearly see *your*
particular circumstances. Your mileage may vary.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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At 9:45 AM -0700 6/16/05, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
THanks for reply Otmar, few comments/questions inserted:
Otmar wrote:
Anyone got 400A 3 phase feed? It'll charge you in no time
and reliable solution is there if you want to try...
That would be interesting!
But of course it only works if your battery pack is more than 336V
nominal (for lead acid, otherwise you can't control the current
from the 240V line) and the AC side noise might be really high
depending on the filters which can easily double the size of the
unit.
I don't understand this. While DC controller can only buck, Siemens
can buck-boost as far as I know - the absolute minimum input DC voltage
is 110V (for high voltage version) and only 65V for low voltage
version, while still rated at 100kW in. This means during regen
inverter must output this voltage only, no more. And at high rpm
(high back EMF) the motor voltage should exceed battery voltage,
should it not?
Actually, the controllers we use only buck when driving and boost
when in regenerative braking mode. I Siemens is really doing that I'd
be very surprised. I also would expect pretty high losses as well
since I think it would require another power stage. If they are
providing 100kW at only 110 V input, that would require a 900 Amp
input. I don't think their power stage is that big. I may be wrong
though.
I'm not sure of how best to explain it. Maybe the easiest way to see
it is to look at the freewheel diodes in the circuit.
In the AC controller each motor phase lead has two freewheel diodes
connected to it inside the controller. One to the B- and one to the
B+ bus. This limits the output voltage of the controller to never be
higher than the input voltage on the battery. If the motor lead goes
higher or lower than the battery bus then the diodes will clamp its'
voltage at the bus.
In the case of using the controller as a charger the output leads get
connected through inductors to the AC line. A 240V AC line has peaks
of 336V and higher if you take line variation into account. If you
put 336V on the motor leads, then the freewheel diodes in the power
section will drive the DC buss to that value minus two diode drops,
so about 334V. The battery connected to that bus will also see that
voltage. This is something that is not switched and so it will
happen even if all the IGBTs are off.
AC propulsion does this with their drive but they're limited to a
much lower power. About 20kW. I guess it's not as easy as just
hooking it up.
For one you need inductance in the input lines. And that's not
light. ACP uses some of the motor windings but of course that adds
complexity in filtering and switching them.
Yes, it does. But the major heavy components (motor windings as
inductors and power silicon on the water cooled slab) are already
there, and it makes sense to re-use it.
Correct. That is one of the greatest advantages of the system they use.
It is very unlikely
you can get near 100 kW charging power with 100 kW inverter.
However, I have no rtouble regenning hard putting 130-140A into
345V pack, it's nearly 45kW. If I only can mimic exact waveform
from the motor side during such a regen, the rest is not too difficult.
(At least in theory as it is well understoon wht has to be done -
ACP is a good example)
That is true. The difference here is that the motor provides
adjustable output voltage. If you have a 200V pack, then the motor
can be driven in such a way that it does not put out too much voltage
and does not drive uncontrolled through the diodes. That actually
turns out to be a problem with the software when in regen on AC
controllers. You have to keep some headroom on the waveform of the
motor or else you risk entering uncontrolled regen.
This brings up a option for cars with less than 336V packs. With a
pack of at least 168V and maybe a bit lower you could use the AC
drive to charge the batteries from a 120V outlet. The only trouble is
that most 120V outlets are relatively low current and so it's hard to
get much power out of them.
In a similar vein. I used Zilla's to charge from a higher voltage
battery pack (dump charge pack) to a lower one. Zilla's start out
at only $2000. But the extra battery pack is not so cheap.
Again, this is because you were bucking. But rectified 240V mains
give you 336V peak, so you can buck into a lower voltage pack, say
300V,
can you?
This could be done. It does require a rectification and filter stage
and if one were trying to give power factor correction on the AC
input (as we usually like to do at high power) then that would
require another electronic stage.
Also, if you boost input by a large off-board autotransformer,
there is no such limitation.
That is true. Still, now you have a large offboard transformer. A
similar thing could be done to let a AC drive be a high power charger
on pack voltages under 336V. The offboard transformer could bring the
AC voltage down to a safe level before running it into the inductors
and AC power section.
Neat thoughts...
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Saturday, June 11, 2005 8:40 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Behalf Of Eric Poulsen
Sent: June 11, 2005 12:05 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: You need a welder - connecting 2 110vac welders in
series/parallel
Any 220V plug has 2 phases that are 180 degrees out of sync. Having two 110
outlets from different breakers won't ensure that the phasing is correct.
It has to be from two breakers on opposite sides of the box.
To truly check the box output phasing, you'd need an O-scope of some sort.
Having said that, I don't recommend attempting this, primarily because of
safety concerns, and the "black box" nature of the units. I'd be more
comfortable simply using 2+ beefy transformers from old microwaves, as some
people on "da intarweb" have done.
Here's how to get either 110VAC 30AMPS or a 220VAC circuit from 2 110VAC
extension cords. (no O-scope required)
Take two beefy 12Ga extension cords and plug them into 2 receptacles in
different rooms.
The other ends go into a large electrical box.
In the box there are two beefy 110Volt 20aMP receptacles and a 220Volt
receptacle.
In a 3 hole receptacle there is a wide slot on the left, neutral
A small slot on the right, hot
A round hole beneath, ground.
Using a multimeter on the 250 VAC range, measure the voltage between the 2
hots.
If it measures 220, you connect each hot to 2 opposite terminals of the 220
receptacle and the neutral and the ground to the third terminal. You have a
220 VAC circuit. Plug your 220VAC welder in there.
If the multimeter measures 0 you have tapped the same side of the circuit
breaker box. Flip one extension cord circuit breaker off. Measure both 110
receptacles. If both are 0, you must find another 110 receptacle from a
different breaker..
If only one circuit went off when you flipped the breaker, you have it.
Just connect both receptacles in parallel and you can draw 2x Amps from your
extension box. Plug you high draw 110 welder in.
The technique might be useful in reverse when connecting a generator to your
home in an emergency if the generator is far from a 220 circuit. (I used
the clothes dryer receptacle last year after hurricane Jeanne.)
BoyntonStu
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Roger that,
I was just going down Memory lane.
I guess a Metro and the rear end of a RWD would be a fairly good hybrid
candidate if one could not find an equal weight 4WD.
The Justy 4WD seems OK.
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden (Akron OH USA)
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 11:16 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: lightweight 4wd Vehicles (was Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.)
About 35 years ago, my high school German teacher (whom I don't doubt was
there ;-) told me that DKW originally manufactured refrigerators. He said
the
initials stood for "Das Kalte Wunder." Maybe they dreamed up something else
those letters could stand for when they started building cars.
No matter what the letters signify, I don't think a DKW would make a very
practical
conversion candidate. Imagine what it would be like obtaining spares for a
car that
old and uncommon!
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Hi all, I'm looking at building myself an EV for around town, and I have
some knowledge about induction motors used in industrial manufacturing.
I also designed and built a 300A (max) DC motor controller back in high
school.
For anyone who doesn't know, a NEMA class A induction motor has a
similar torque curve to a gasoline motor, only starting at ~50% torque
at 0 rpm instead of 0%. This gradually morphs over the next 3 classes
until class D, which has a torque curve similar to a series or PM motor
only concave down. Thus, at a given input voltage and frequency, a class
A motor will be more efficient and have more torque at the higher
speeds, but will have less at the low end.
My questions are:
1) Does the class matter when you use a VFD?
2) Are typical EV motors one of these classes or just not rated like this?
3) Anyone used standard industrial 230/460V 3PH motors before?
Thanks all,
Cory Cross
MTU CpE student, Houghton, MI
ps I like the inverter-charging-batteries idea.
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| From: "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
| To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
| Subject: Re: lightweight 4wd Vehicles (was Re: 'Instant' Hybrid idea.)
| Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2005 07:58:26 -0700
|
| Ah, I couldn't remember the real name, thank you. Back in the late 70's, I
| was in the local community college, taking Automotive Body and Paint. We
| usually brought our own cars to work on, and there was this one fellow who
| had two DKWs he had inherited from his father. One was the little round car
| that looked almost like a VW bug, the other was a van-type thing. I don't
| think either was 4 wheel drive, or very light. I doubt either of them would
| do as an EV project. By the way, the van had the steering wheel towards the
| center of the dash, and the guy that owned it said that he used to stand on
| the seat to his Father's left when he was small.
|
| David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
| Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
| - Harold S. Hulbert
Hi all:
A bit of history: well before WWII, in fact before the
Nazis' came to power - there were several German auto makers
named Horsch, DKW, Audi, Wanderer, Protos ?, and others to form
Auto Union around 1931. They had 12 and 16 cylinder cars and
did well in races in the 30's.
There was a big shake out and DKW (which stands for Dampf Kraft
Wagen, translated as "steam powered vehicle") joined VW in
the mid 1960's and later became absorbed as part of what is
now Audi.
I believe the four interlocking rings on the DKW (also on the
hood of any Audi on the road today) symbolize the roots of
the company. VW and Porsche also joined up as part of the
family in recent decades.
If anyone wants to look at a DKW today check out the following
link:
www.dyna.co.za/cars/history.htm
with various pictures on the parent page
www.dyna.co.za/cars/dkw.htm
Audi had the first front wheel drive, and had some interesting
models of ICE.
Back to EV's! :)
Ron Freund
EV+PV=success!
--
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In a message dated 6/16/2005 12:05:28 PM Pacific Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
<< Here is the company website and history, It is "Dampf-Kraft-Wagen". >>
Early steam powered cars were called this.
Later dealer literature and car badging are full of Die Kliene Wunder.
Better than a beetle for conversion, ie same rugged construction, but with
more flat area in back seat and trunk, however spares are rare and expensive.
I need to buy all 8 wheel cylinders for mine at $40 each (ouch)
Cool little cars tho...
Ben
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On Thu, 16 Jun 2005 11:16:16 -0400, David Roden (Akron OH USA) wrote:
> About 35 years ago, my high school German teacher (whom I don't doubt was
> there ;-) told me that DKW originally manufactured refrigerators. He said
> the
> initials stood for "Das Kalte Wunder." Maybe they dreamed up something else
> those letters could stand for when they started building cars.
If you still can read german:
http://www.dkw-geyer.com/DKW-Geyer/d/technik/history.htm
Emil
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Now that you mention it, I remember seeing one for sale on eBay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5781545887
*slurp* Just bought it. $250 is a good deal with the prescaler and the
shunt I think.
Next step: Hooking it up to the NiCD test system. Ultimately I'll put it
in the Elec-trak with the new batteries.
Chris
P.S. - Do people hate the Curtis whine at low speeds *so much* that they will
pay **more** than a 1221C's retail cost new and with warrantee to get a used
1221B: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=5982185128 ...?
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Andre' Blanchard wrote:
>
> I think Victor was equating the fluke meter with the laptop. Whatever
> voltage you are measuring is present in the meter that you are holding in
> your hands.
Yes; but *ALL* multimeters are designed knowing the user will be
connecting the probes to "hot" circuits. So *ALL* multimeters are
designed with no touchable metal that could present any shock hazard.
But, every laptop I've ever seen has EXPOSED metal in all the I/O
connectors. So, it is easy to touch metal that is electrically connected
to the internal wiring.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Ghandi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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On 6/16/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Evan Tuer wrote:
> > On 6/16/05, Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >>Don needs to have his laptop's neg supply reference to the neg.
> >>side of the battery pack, not to the chassy. This menas he
> >>cannot use 12V sigarette lighter output to power
> >>laptop. He needs a DC-DC converter fed from the pack.
> >
> >
> > I don't think so Victor - laptops tend to have isolated, switch mode
> > supplies. The laptop chassis will therefore be floating, however he
> > provides power to it's PSU.
>
> I'm not talking about external in line brick - these indeed are
> isolated, but he's not usin that. He needs an isolated PS fed
> by a DC fromn the pack, this is special item.
So what is he using, that's supplied with a 120VAC source from an
inverter, and runs his laptop? It seemed like a reasonable assumption
that it's either an external or internal SMPSU, as normal.
>
> Second, laptops have no "chassy", the y have common ground, local for
> all their circuitry.
I think others have pointed this out, but laptops may indeed have a
chassis, and at the very least they have shielding metalwork and a
ground plane that connects together the "shells" of the connectors. On
the com ports, pin 5 is also connected to this gound. Any time you
pick up a laptop, you're likely to touch the metal connectors on the
back. Mine even has a headphone socket on the front, whos gound is
also linked.
> >
> >
> > In my opinion that's a safety hazard. An isolator should be used in
> > the RS232 signal from the E-meter to the laptop, end of story!
>
> This is emotional statement. An isolation has to be used for safety,
> but the laptop is not a permanent part of the vehicle, Don only needs
> to gather some data with it. You don't optically insulate a fluke meter
> do you? Because it already has insulative plastic case; so is a laptop
> if supplied from own battery. We just talking about replacement
> of that laptop's battery by a power supply.
Well Victor, I said it's a safety risk because it is. Whether you or
Don or anyone else chooses to ignore the risk, that's up to them.
I've done exactly the same thing by the way, record data from the
E-Meter, making my laptop common with pack-. But I certainly wouldn't
advise someone else to do the same thing, and I will continue to point
out the risk to them so they can make their own, informed decision.
And it sounds like Don *is* intending to make the laptop at least a
semi-permanent part of the car.
> Input isolation
> in his case needed for noise reduction, not safety concerns.
> There is no part of laptop you can receive the shock from.
Yes there is, as I explained above.
>
> Be reasonable and technical to make your point, "end of story"
> based on paranoya or fear isn't very useful motivation :-)
I am being reasonable and technical. You on the other hand are
ignoring an obvious and hazardous situation, and have put your
customer in a situation where he could be injured, through not telling
him of the risk.
I didn't mean to make a big deal out of it, but when I point out a
safety risk, if you disagree with it, please do so in equally
technical terms rather than telling me I'm spreading paranoia and
fear.
Regards
Evan
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Hi Don,
I'm on the mailing list of http://www.bb-elec.com/ - can't testify to
their products but you could have a look.
Lee Hart also recently wrote:
[..]
So, I've been tinkering. I designed an RS-232 isolator that is smaller
and cheaper, and "self powered" by the serial data input so it doesn't
need any external power source. I'm thinking of running off a small
batch of them for my own use, and wondered if anyone else might be
interested?
Basic specs:
- one RS-232 channel, one direction
- >1500v isolation
- input; +/-5v minumum RS-232 logic level swing into a 1k ohm load
(for reference, the E-meter delivers +/-7v into a 1k load)
- output; +/-3v minimum RS-232 logic level swing into a 3k load
(for reference, that's the minimum voltage and load resistance
spec for the RS-232 standard; most devices are less)
[..]
Regards
Evan
On 6/17/05, Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Having had a couple of personal experiences already with 312V, I want to
> avoid any other potential occurrences. My laptop, like some of the others,
> does have exposed metal parts. I would prefer to be safe than sorry.
>
>
> Roger, know of any places I can order an RS232 isolator in Canada? Most on
> the web are mail order from the states.
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
>
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
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about the Michelin-Bibendum 180km rally in Kyoto:
link:
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=12461
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Andrew Letton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 6:20 PM
Subject: Re: Fw: AeroVironment motor, Airships are cool!
> It appears that modern day Zeppelin-NTs were approved for passenger
> service in 1997 and are now in tourist and general passenger service in
> Germany and Japan...
> See:
> http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t4607.html
> http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/index_e.htm
> cheers,
> Andrew
>
>
>
> jerry dycus wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Sorry Bob, but passenger carrying airships are
> >not going to happen as they can not cope with even
> >moderate weather.
> >
> > Hi Jerry an' All;
Yeah! Sigh! I know, but there was something elegent with the Hindinberg
and Graf Zeppelin, in their time. Ships of the sky, gliding along in full
almost Queen Mary size.Two daze across the "Pond" In shipboard luxury. With
my Coffee table size book on Airships showing the aerial lifestyle they
offered.
Often wondered if the Hindinberg hadn't burned up, what would have
happened? The War would suspended Airship servive, the yet unnamed Sister
Ship to the H'berg, already built, would have picked up service after the
war. Like the Queen Elizebeth passenger ship, AFTER the war she entered
trans Atlantic service for the masses, rather than full devisions off to
war.Heliem would have given the post war airships the "Lift" without the
hydrogen dangers, that we face today in handling the stuff. Zeppelin tours
on Priceline?<g>!
As you pointed out that Airships were big and SLOW as aircraft go,
H'berg was only good for 80MPH pretty good for something that big, but the
handling could be a problem. A little breeze and you have a docking issue.
NYC's Empire State Bldg was planned to dock Airships, hence the round dome
up top. It opened in 1931, in the budding airship era. Going around bad
weather could add days to your trip! But as an arial cruise ship, no hurry,
it could be fun at1500 feet. Getting over the Rockies could be a sport,
though<g>! Follow the RR'S I guess?
Getting lost in the what-if-and-could-have-been, history dept, EV's
could have lingered on the FIRST time, had electricity been as common 100
years ago as now?? Edison Nickel Whatever cells been manufactured big time,
and improved. There, today, could be TWO types of vehicles; Gassers AND EV's
doing their things, to the best of their ability.EV's would be cheaper, mass
produced, they are easier to build, all the stuff we all know here.
OK End of nostalgia, back to isolating and other noise, electrical, that
is.
Seeya at Woodburn!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Wujek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
> about the Michelin-Bibendum 180km rally in Kyoto:
>
> link:
> http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=12461
>
> --
> Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
>
> Hi Paul;
Thanks for the link! Heartwarming story, a money-is-no-object ride,
for sure! Drivin like a daily gofur car, but it would do EVen more. But with
a car like that, looks like it's doing 90MPH STANDING still, you would
hafta drive it fast! With Bill Gates money, I'd have a few in my new
air-conditioned carpeted garage, and the rest of the money to build one for
the masses.
Seeya, in the right lane for now!
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Anybody know what kind of motor and batteries they are running in this car?
On its web site it says:
180kW air cooled
Fixed ratio of 9.58:1
0-100Kmh (0-60mph) in 4.5s
Top speed of 170kmh 106mph
Its' weight is 1100kg (2420lbs) with 58kWh (100) LiIon batteries which weigh
320kg
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Paul Wujek
Sent: June 17, 2005 5:30 AM
To: EV List
Subject: article: Environment: Venturi Fetish in Japanese rally
about the Michelin-Bibendum 180km rally in Kyoto:
link:
http://www.channel4.com/4car/news/news-story.jsp?news_id=12461
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello All,
Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers? I'm
working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
Cheers, Duncan
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This looks to be a great dragster conversion for someone in California
http://thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=184809 $500 has a one piece
front end and roll cage. No affiliation with seller blah blah...
james
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All I can tell you is what I've seen; each one is
seperately programmable to the characteristics of your
cart, and they are shipping hundreds each week.
Something must be going right...
(;-p
--- Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the
> Alltrax controllers? I'm
> working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed
> out of it. I'm
> considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe.
> Any comments? What's
> the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a
> golf cart?
>
> Cheers, Duncan
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Alltrax makes a very quality controller that is programmable, waterproof,
and quite efficient. You are on the right track. More voltage equals more
speed. More amps equals more torque. Check out our shop golf cart, a 1990 G2
Yamaha doing wheel stands running a stock 3.5 hp motor running on 120 volts
with a special 900 amp controller at:
http://www.suckamps.com/images/build_team_vehicles/GolfCartWheelie.mov
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Orthner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: Alltrax opinions?
Hello All,
Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers? I'm
working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
Cheers, Duncan
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A golf cart customer of mine has me remove 1/2 the field coils to make the
motor go faster. they call it a go-fast motor, lol. This would bring up the
amp's though too, so you'd have to be careful there. You would also lose some
torque, but your top end speed would be better. I have no idea how, (if at
all) the controller is being modified to handle the extra amp's, but I've done
a fair amount of them over the last 2 years. This is a easy fix and takes me
around 2 hours to do.
Just my 2 cent's here since you said golf cart type motor.
Jim Husted
Duncan Orthner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hello All,
Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers? I'm
working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
Cheers, Duncan
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Get a bigger Altrax.
Call Damon and Company...
They make them, and they enjoy high powered EVs.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
Founder DCP... as in DCP came before Altrax.
Long story....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan Orthner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2005 6:57 AM
Subject: Alltrax opinions?
>
> Hello All,
>
> Does anyone have any experience with the Alltrax controllers?
I'm
> working on a golf cart type EV and I want more speed out of it. I'm
> considering going up to a 72V setup with a 450A Axe. Any comments? What's
> the simplest way to get more speed/power out of a golf cart?
>
> Cheers, Duncan
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I see a lesson in VFD and vertor drives coming on.
Yes the class matters, mainly in the heats production.
typical EV motors have Brushes....
Yes some have used Standard motors, to limted effect.
Long story.
Victor's Siemans motors and drives, allow us to get a EV class drive motor,
without spending time in the junk yard, looking for the right motor.
Rich Rudman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Thursday, June 16, 2005 8:05 PM
Subject: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
> Hi all, I'm looking at building myself an EV for around town, and I have
> some knowledge about induction motors used in industrial manufacturing.
> I also designed and built a 300A (max) DC motor controller back in high
> school.
>
> For anyone who doesn't know, a NEMA class A induction motor has a
> similar torque curve to a gasoline motor, only starting at ~50% torque
> at 0 rpm instead of 0%. This gradually morphs over the next 3 classes
> until class D, which has a torque curve similar to a series or PM motor
> only concave down. Thus, at a given input voltage and frequency, a class
> A motor will be more efficient and have more torque at the higher
> speeds, but will have less at the low end.
>
> My questions are:
> 1) Does the class matter when you use a VFD?
> 2) Are typical EV motors one of these classes or just not rated like this?
> 3) Anyone used standard industrial 230/460V 3PH motors before?
>
> Thanks all,
> Cory Cross
> MTU CpE student, Houghton, MI
>
> ps I like the inverter-charging-batteries idea.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Bob, Andrew, and All,
--- Bob Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andrew Letton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Fw: AeroVironment motor, Airships are
> cool!
>
>
> > It appears that modern day Zeppelin-NTs were
> approved for passenger
> > service in 1997 and are now in tourist and general
> passenger service in
> > Germany and Japan...
> > See:
> >
>
http://www.urbanplanet.org/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t4607.html
> > http://www.zeppelin-nt.com/index_e.htm
> > cheers,
Too see what I mean about airships not going to
ever carry passengers long distance watch the news
tonight as another Goodyear blimp crashed just in time
to prove my point. They have terrible safety records
for the number of flights they take. Even worse than
helicopters which is so bad you won't catch me in
either.
As sailboat sailor, I know about handling in
weather and to handle that big of sail area an airship
has that you can't reef is just asking for trouble.
However as an unmaned EV high altitude satelite
subsitute which can fly above the weather and rarely
has to come down, say 1x/yr when you can pick your
weather for landing, then they are a great idea.
But for scheduled passenger service where they must
land in whatever weather, then they are not viable, EV
or not.
And it would be very hard to take a large passenger
airship with a pressurized cabin to above the weather
as cargo cap is greatly reduced as you go higher up.
> > Andrew
> >
> >
> >
> > jerry dycus wrote:
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Sorry Bob, but passenger carrying airships
> are
> > >not going to happen as they can not cope with
> even
> > >moderate weather.
> > >
> > > Hi Jerry an' All;
>
> Yeah! Sigh! I know, but there was something
> elegent with the Hindinberg
> and Graf Zeppelin, in their time. Ships of the sky,
> gliding along in full
> almost Queen Mary size.Two daze across the "Pond" In
> shipboard luxury. With
> my Coffee table size book on Airships showing the
> aerial lifestyle they
> offered.
Hopefully my Wing in Ground Effect, WIGE, design I
hope to build in the future will give that kind of
luxury at 250-300 mph for a 10 hr transalantic trip.
It's basicly a seaplane that never gets out of
ground effect thus able to carry twice the payload.
Flying at a height of 50' at 250 mph makes it almost
immune to weather.
As this is not EV, comments offlist only or on
Wastewatts. Though EV water borne water jet drive is a
probability.
>
> Getting lost in the what-if-and-could-have-been,
> history dept, EV's
> could have lingered on the FIRST time, had
> electricity been as common 100
> years ago as now?? Edison Nickel Whatever cells been
> manufactured big time,
> and improved. There, today, could be TWO types of
> vehicles; Gassers AND EV's
> doing their things, to the best of their
> ability.EV's would be cheaper, mass
> produced, they are easier to build, all the stuff we
> all know here.
Yes it would have been interesting. Even Ford's
wife still would not drive anything but an EV, a
Detroit Electric, until she died.
It's still at the Ford Estate museum I think and
was charged off of their small hydro electric plant on
the grounds.
Going to see the mold for the Freedom EV tomarrow
as it should be done today. Weather here has not been
kind for composite work but finially this week it has
so progress picks back up ;-)).
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
> OK End of nostalgia, back to isolating and other
> noise, electrical, that
> is.
>
> Seeya at Woodburn!
>
> Bob
>
>
>
__________________________________
Yahoo! Mail
Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the tour:
http://tour.mail.yahoo.com/mailtour.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod and All,
--- Roderick Wilde <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Alltrax makes a very quality controller that is
> programmable, waterproof,
> and quite efficient. You are on the right track.
> More voltage equals more
> speed. More amps equals more torque. Check out our
> shop golf cart, a 1990 G2
> Yamaha doing wheel stands running a stock 3.5 hp
> motor running on 120 volts
> with a special 900 amp controller at:
I too am building 2 GC transaxle based EV's and
want to know what other motors I can put in it to
increase my speeds.
One has a motor of unknown parentage from a very
old Ez-go 3wh with numbers like as they are on the
label,
5BC48JB509C 2800rpm
ClassB
35 55
75C INT
Series 48 3122
BM569 S
Is this a rebuilt GE? Voltage? Amps?
The axle is the same as my other old 3wh Ez-go
with a Textron 5BC48JB700C 2800rpm, 36vdc though the
first has the brake on the motor and the second has
the brakes on the axles.
With these part numbers are they GE's?
I assume these don't have axle side motor
bearings?
How strong are these motors?
I intend on running them at 72vdc with field
weakening to get higher speeds if nessasary.
On the first one I get 30mph on 60vdc but
probably sagging to 40vdc or so at the motor because
of funky batts, cables, controller.
My goal is 60 mph if possible using 24" dia tires
as it now has.
I think I'll need new motor to do that but can I
get 45 mph with the present ones reliably?
The first will have fair aero and the second
really good aero and both low frontal area.
For course building the bodies from wood/epoxy
finished clear. One a pick-up style and the other
tandem aero style and intend to sell them to raise
cash for my Freedom EV project and clear some stuff
out of the yard ;-)).
Are there any off the shelf reasonably priced
lights, horn, ect, electrical harness/fuse box/dash
switches systems available to make them legal for road
use?
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
>
http://www.suckamps.com/images/build_team_vehicles/GolfCartWheelie.mov
>
> Roderick Wilde
> "Suck Amps EV Racing"
> www.suckamps.com
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
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--- End Message ---
