EV Digest 4446
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: FW: You need a welder - connecting 2 110vac circuits. No O-scope
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Welding
by "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Oozing Motor?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Mangled Measurements
by "Richard Rau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Harbor Freight Welder
by Chris Seeley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Paralleling 2 -110 VAXC welders
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Welding
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Gasless on Greenwood 6/25/05
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Battery Monitoring
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Welding
by Reverend Gadget <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Oozing Motor?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Oozing Motor?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Fw: Tilley is at it again.
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Oozing Motor?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Advanced DC Motors brush timing
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) My dream hybrid idea.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Oozing Motor?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Oozing Motor?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) RE: Oozing Motor?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Welding on the cheap
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
The recepe is fairly simple to do. I took a large 1500W uWave transformer,
chopped off the secondary and the magnetic shunt leaving only the primary
coil. I wound with #14 magnet wire (I think about .6V per turn but hafta
test) until I got a voltage out of two diodes that met the C/40 requirement
for final taper charge about 4amps for 8Vers or 5.5A for 6Vers. Use two 30A
diodes on heat sinks to charge the batteries in a push-pull fashion so you
only need 60Vac to charge 120V worth of batteries. That would be, one wire
going to the battery center-tap and the other side of the primary to an
anode of one diode and cathode of the other. Then of course the cathode of
one goes to the + battery pack end and the anode of the other to the - side.
The 2.58V per cell is close to 60Vac x 1.4 + losses = (155Vdc), (isn't that
nice how it works out). So initially wind for 60vac and then tweak as you
go. Use the original fan to blow on the transformer and put a 25uf 250vac
cap across the 120vac primary (for PFC as Lee recommended). Set the uP
control (I used a MC68HC908QY4 with development "mon08-multilink" from
www.pemicro.com and Mot chips from Digikey) to turn off when dv/dt=0 or
<.01Vrise per cell per hour,sampling every hour (or <.6V for 60 cells) stop.
I also set it to restart if the battery temp is below 50F to pre-heat and
you can also restart if the sitting voltage gets low, about 124V to keep
peaked up. For equalize, just restart after charged to get an additional 2
hours equalize charge. Put the whole think in a big BudBox (grounded to
greenwire) with the fan *blowing* on the coils about 2" away. Use two
edgewise current meters and a 20A fast acting magnetic on the input
breaker/switch from Carlingswitch in Allied Electronics.
Have fun, Mark
www.solectrol.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: RE: FW: You need a welder - connecting 2 110vac circuits. No
O-scope
> Mark,
>
> Howe about a drawing and instructions on rewiring the microwave
transformer,
> etc?
>
> BoyntonStu
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Mark Hanson
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 9:53 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: FW: You need a welder - connecting 2 110vac circuits. No
> O-scope
>
> Hi,
> Since I charge at work on 120vac, I have a second auxilary charger (using
a
> rewound microwave oven transformer with a 25uf primary cap for PFC) at
home
> that plugs into a separate 120vac outlet pulling about 15A off each
> dedicated 20A outlets at the start of charge. The aux charger has a start
> relay which is tied to the main charger through a DC connector on the
> bumper. Thus with two isolation transformers (the safest way to do this)
> you don't care how the outlets are wired, in or out of phase.
> Mark
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2005 3:26 PM
> Subject: Re: FW: You need a welder - connecting 2 110vac circuits. No
> O-scope
>
>
> > On 18 Jun 2005 at 10:33, Stu or Jan wrote:
> >
> > > There is nothing new under the sun!
> > >
> > > http://www.quick220.com/pictures.htm
> >
> > Since many conversions need 240v for a reasonably rapid charge, we've
> > discussed these gadgets (and various homebrew versions of them) on the
> list
> > a few times before.
> >
> > I honestly can't see the attraction of them. That might be partly
because
> I
> > have experience in household electrical wiring. I've never lived
> anywhere -
> > rented or owned, house or apartment - that I wasn't able to install some
> > kind of 240 volt charging lashup, >>>properly and safely connnected<<<.
> >
> > The only setup I've used which wouldn't have passed code inspection was
> the
> > rental house where I "borrrowed" the water heater circuit in such a way
> that
> > my charging receptacle was hot only when the water was. <g>
> >
> > I would think that most other people who have the experience and
knowledge
> > to build or maintain a conversion EV would also be able to install a
safe,
> > effective charging facility, either temporary or permanent, almost
> anywhere.
> > Even if you don't have the experience, all you'd need is some research
> into
> > basic wiring principles (get a copy of "Wiring Simplified") and a look
at
> > the local code requirements in your area.
> >
> > Most of the homebrew methods of combining two 120 volt circuits to
derive
> > 240 volts are rather hazardous. Those you can buy, such as this one,
are
> > suspect in that department - and ridiculously overpriced for what you're
> > getting, to boot.
> >
> > If you need 240 volts, for goodness sake, install a proper receptacle,
or
> > hire someone to do it if need be. You'll sleep better.
> >
> >
> > David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> > EV List Assistant Administrator
> >
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
> > or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> > Note: mail sent to the "from" address above may not reach me. To
> > send me a private message, please use evdl at drmm period net.
> > = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
****RESEND****
I Hope this is not a duplicate, I have not had good luck sending emails to
the list lately.
*************
Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but
you folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be
needing something to get started on my EV project!!!
Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are
stick welders too...
Does this work both ways??
Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
have it work?
Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
out of my price range!!!
I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
there??
Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one
here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
And then connecting it to any arc welder.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Chris Seeley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Christopher Robison wrote:
The end of the motor shaft is indeed pretty gouged up, however this damage
predates the black ooze we found on the bearing, which is a fairly recent
development.
Chris is correct, the black ooze is very recent. When I had the motor
removed in early January 2005 (to get the melted electrical terminal
repaired), the black ooze did NOT exist. The motor shaft abuse, on the
other hand, happened during the initial test drives of the Jeep back in
late 2003.
I remember someone yesterday (can't remember who) mentioning that the gunk
we found had a grit to it, as if it were a suspension of graphite or
something similar. I'm wondering if the only reason why it's black is
because it's been contaminated with particles of friction material from
the clutch?
Upon removing the clutch pressure plate and friction disk, I did notice
that there was a bit of brown dust from the friction disk floating
around in the assembly... so it is very possible that that dust got
blown into the area of question.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Listers- I consider this to be On Topic because it supports our need
to stay informed about the latest conversions as well as causing that
essential EV grin.
Enjoy-
1. Ratio of an igloo's circumference to its diameter = Eskimo Pi
2. 2000 pounds of Chinese soup = Won ton
3. 1 millionth of a mouthwash = 1 microscope
4. Time between slipping on a peel and smacking the pavement=
1 bananosecond
5. Weight an evangelist carries with God = 1 billigram
6. Time it takes to sail 220 yards at 1 nautical mile perhour
= Knotfurlong
7. 365.25 days of drinking low calorie beer = 1 Lite year
8. 16.5 feet in the Twilight Zone = 1 Rod Serling
9. Half a large intestine = 1 semicolon
10. 1,000,000 aches = 1 megahurtz
11. Basic unit of laryngitis - 1 hoarsepower
12. Shortest distance between two jokes - a straight line
13. 453.6 graham crackers = 1 pound cake
14. 1 million microphones = 1 megaphone
15. 1 million bicycles = 1 megacycles
16. 365.25 days = 1 unicycle
17. 2000 mockingbirds = two kilomockingbirds
18. 10 cards = 1 decacard
19. 52 cards = 1 deckacard
20. 1 kilogram of falling figs = 1 fig Newton
21. 1000 grams of wet socks = 1 literhosen
22. 1 millionth of a fish = 1 microfiche
23. 1 trillion pins = 1 terrapin
24. 10 rations = 1 decaration
25. 100 rations = 1 C-ration
26. 2 monograms = 1 diagram
27. 8 nickels = 2 paradigms
28. 2.4 statute miles of intravenous surgical tubing at Yale
University Hospital = 1 I.V. League
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but
you folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be
needing something to get started on my EV project!!!
Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are
stick welders too...
Does this work both ways??
Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
have it work?
Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
out of my price range!!!
I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
there??
Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one
here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
And then connecting it to any arc welder.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Chris Seeley
On 6/14/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> hi evan
> arc tig inverter is dc only so no ali welding with it
> you are right of course you will need argon a
> regulator a flowmeter and a torch to use a small tig
> set
> consumables are
> feed rods (dirt cheap for steel)
> tungstens £1 each ,last for ages
> collets and bodies about £6 last you a year
> shrouds £5 each (last until you drop the torch on the
> floor)
> as you won't be welding ali you do not need 200amp
> you can weld up to 5mm steel with about 120amp
> you also only need one size of tungsten
> ,shroud,collet,body etc cutting the cost right down
> buy all the bits on ebay at half the cost of an
> industrial supplies shop
> argon is about £90 a massive 6ft high bottle from boc
> with a small monthly rental it will last you a very
> long time indeed
> as for learning to use it - buy a copy of the haynes
> automotive welding book for about £15 - it really does
> have all the info you need - then have a go
> if you have an ounce of mechanical skill and manual
> dexterity with in 5-10 hrs practice you will never use
> your mig again
> regards
> reb
>
>
>
>
> --- Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > On 6/14/05, reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > wrote:
> >
> > > I know lots of people will disagree with this and
> > i
> > > know that you can weld sheet metal with a mig but
> > > after years of welding i have a tig which i use
> > all
> > > the time, two stick sets which i use once a year
> > and
> > > two mig units one small and one big and i haven't
> > > turned them on in ages
> > > stump up the cash and buy a 200amp inverter based
> > HF
> > > ac/dc tig set and you will be able to weld
> > anything
> > > including ali copper etc
> > > just my opinion you understand
> > > reb
> >
> > Well, the expense is the main thing, isn't it.
> > Still, I'm tempted to
> > give it a try for chassis welding on my EV projects.
> > Machine mart
> > have an "Arc / Tig 150 Inverter" for £300, plus
> > another £100 for
> > torch/hose and whatnot. Any opinion on that for
> > general/light use?
> > Their 200A is getting kind of steep.
> > I think my Mig cost about £150 new, and the gas is
> > £10 a bottle, and
> > it doesn't use much. I can work it and It's pretty
> > good at welding
> > up rusty sills on my rotted old Ford too :)
> > What do the consumables cost on the Tig setup?
> > Any good resources for learning to use the thing?
> >
> > Thanks
> > Evan
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with
> voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
A Vector drive lowers the frequency for those low slip conditions and
also adjusts the output current to the minimum necessary to do the
work. this is more efficient and keeps the rotor from melting at part
throttle. It requires a high count resolver to know the rotor position
in thousands of pulses per rpm and a processor(DSP) that can handle
that input. THis is why six step is popular with BLDC,BLAC motors, The
rotor field is fixed, fancy software and control doesn't have much of
a return on the investment.
So inverter grade motors are designed for high frequency then run at
lower frequency for speed control, running a motor designed for low
freq at high frequency is not 'efficient.'
Ah, this is what I meant. Any idea of how "not 'efficient.'"?
Lee Hart wrote:
There's a long list of
changes to make a motor suitable for use in an EV:
Thanks for all that information. I also found some stuff you talked
about back around digest 2964.
My EV may just end up working. Thanks everyone.
Cory Cross
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I re-invented the wheel, again.
Miller shows us how to do it.
http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf
<http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/Paralleling.pdf> -/Paralleling.pdf
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I asked the technicians at weldingmart:
Please wait for a site operator to respond.
Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Dan'
Dan: How may I help you today?
you: Hi Dan, I am looking at the TIG-Mate 17 TIG Torch Starter. Can this be
attached to a stick welder power source or do I have to have a special TIG
power source. Just looking for an inexpensive option.
Dan: Well you can add it to any stick welder and be able to sratch start tig
on the DC output side. this would allow you to tig mild steel, stainless,
but the drawback is that a lot of stick welders only go as low as 50 amps
which might be a bit hot. also tungsten blow can be a problerm
Dan: negative terminal to tig torch
Dan: you still with me ?
Dan: hello!
Dan: thank you for stopping hope it helped
Chat InformationChat session has been terminated by the site operator.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Seeley
Sent: June 20, 2005 10:32 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Welding
****RESEND****
I Hope this is not a duplicate, I have not had good luck sending emails to
the list lately.
*************
Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but you
folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be needing
something to get started on my EV project!!!
Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are stick
welders too...
Does this work both ways??
Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and have it
work?
Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I would
like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way out of my
price range!!!
I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but no AC.
I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a shielding
gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience there??
Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one here.
http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
And then connecting it to any arc welder.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Chris Seeley
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy Folks
I haven't seen this EVent mentioned on the EVDL yet.
The Seattle Electric Vehicle Association (http://www.seattleeva.org/) has
gathered together a great group of EVs to carry the EV flag at the Greenwood
Car Show (http://www.greenwood-phinney.com/pages/special_events/carshow.asp)
in N. Seattle on 6/25/05.
People tell me that this is the largest and best attended car show in the
Northwest.
I always have a great time and talk to large quantities of folks about EVs
:^D
In previous years we have had to all roll in together in order to be parked
together. This year, the organizers have reserved an area specifically for
the EVs.
I do not know if it is too late or not to add more vehicles, please contact
Steve Lough directly with any questions.
Here is a list of folks and vehicles expected to attend from the SEVA
mailing list-
----------------------------------
Steven Lough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote-
Here is the list as I see it this a.m. 6/17 A total of 12 entries
We plan to rendevouz at 7 am, at the parking lot off of 50th and Whitman
Ave. and Que UP for the drive to our SPECIAL Spot near 82nd and Greenwood.
VW Beetle / Red / Kent Bakke
T.B.A. Green Car Co / Greg Rock
VW Rabbit PU / Yellow / John Marshall
34 Ford Racer / Blue / Gary Longley
"Son of FrankenDragon" Drag Bike / Don Crabtree
"Gone Postal" / Roderick Wilde
"Blue Meanie" Datsun 1200 / John Wayland
Geo-Modified / white / Dave Cloud Racing
Honda Insight / Red / Steve Lough
Dynasty IT / MC Electric / Mark Jacobson
Corbin Sparrow / yellow / Jamie Marshall
Mazda Miata / RED / Andrew Schwarz
Many Thanks
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
----------------------------------------------------
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It depends on the current you are drawing. When I was capacity at 120 amp
discharges, I would go to .9v before considering them done. Since I was
testing individual cells, there was no danger of hurting the cell, but this
seemed to be when the voltage was dropping rapidly.
With the cells that I recently started working with, instead of testing
individual cells I tested 11 at a time (1/4 of my pack). In this case I was
only discharging at 60amps and used 1 volt as the cutoff. On my motorcycle
I rarely only use 60 amps, so if I were trying to monitor individual cells
while riding I would probably go with .9v.
damon
From: Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Battery Monitoring
Date: Fri, 17 Jun 2005 22:02:30 -0700
John Lussmyer wrote:
> I know that there have been some simple circuits that will at
> least tell you which battery is having problems. Is there one
> of these that might work for 1.2v NiCd cells?
A nicad cell is "dead" when it falls below 1.0v. This happens to be the
threshold voltage for an infrared LED. So, an easy undervoltage monitor
would be to wire an optocoupler's LED and a series resistor across each
cell. Wire all these optocoupler's phototransistor outputs together to
your monitoring circuit. It could be as simple as having all of them in
series, with an LED; then as soon as any cell goes under 1.0v, the LED
goes off, the phototransistor turns off, and an alarm is tripped.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
comments inserted
>
> I have noticed that most all TIG welders also
> advertise that they are
> stick welders too...
> Does this work both ways??
>
yes. stick and tig are constant current processes
where mig is constant voltage. You should be able to
do either with a CC power source.
>
> Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC
> arc welder, and
> have it work?
That is how I learned years ago. It is not as easy as
having a "gas pedal" like on a real tig machine, so it
will take some getting used to. the other difference
is that newer machines have square wave output, some
with an asymetrical waveform. With these setups you
end up with more of your heat in the metal and less at
the torch.
>
> Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel,
> and aluminum. I
> would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that
> are AC/DC are way
> out of my price range!!!
>
> I thought about getting the one at harbor freight
> for about $200, but
> no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC,
> using helium as a
> shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you
> have experience
> there??
let's say downright ugly. I have done thin only in an
emergency situation and would not trust the results. I
have welded with a simple stick machine with a tig
torch on steel and bronze and the results are great. I
would not suggest doing it for aluminum. If you want
to weld aluminum at the very least save up for the
ac/dc machine. aluminum welds with a simple sine wave
ac machine can be very pretty but they do leave a
large heat affected area. If you are doing something
that does not require a lot of inherent strength it
will be fine. If you think you are going to build a
stuctural aluminum frame pay some one else to do it or
save up for the right machine. I have an aluminum
frame that I'm building for the next project and I
will only use pulsed mig or pulsed tig. they put a
minimal amount of heat into the weld and are really
strong. But, we are talking about a 7000 dollar
machine.
>
> Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit,
> such as the one
> here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
> And then connecting it to any arc welder.
>
> Thanks for any suggestions.
>
> Chris Seeley
>
>
Gadget
visit my website at www.reverendgadget.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Tom Shay wrote:
Replace the bearing because its grease has probably melted and
escaped and because whatever battered the shaft also probably
ruined the bearing.
You make it sound so easy!
For me, it is probably a job that I don't have the proper tools to do.
and so far I've only found one motor shop in my city that will work on
motors like this, as they frequently work with ADC motors from other
applications. Bad part is, I was NOT impressed with the way they handled
the repair of my motor's melted down terminal.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Jim Husted wrote:
Sounds like you just have some grease leaking from the drive end
bearing. No problem there but being it looks "black" you may want to
change the bearing being they usually use a light colored grease when
manufactured. You may have no problem at all though.
If we assume that the black color is a result of friction disk dust
blowing into the ooze aka grease, would you still recommend replacing
the bearing based on the amount of grease that has accumulated there?
Other things I need to mention that haven't been brought up in other posts:
- My old transmission had been getting very hot as a result of its
internal problem(s). Thus my motor had also been running hot as a result
of it trying to spin the (apparently bad) transmission that had an
unacceptable amount of internal drag. I tried to be cautious of how I
drove to keep the motor as cool as possible, but the motor still got
really hot on many occasions. In retrospect I realize I should've
addressed this issue months ago so the motor would run cooler.
- My old transmission always leaked a little bit from the input shaft
and there is evidence of this by small amounts of transmission fluid
splattered all around the inside of the bell housing. Maybe some of that
fluid could've made its way to where the black ooze is, but then again
the black ooze seems a bit thicker than the gear oil used in my
transmission.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
It must be magic! Perpetual motion?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
If you weren't on the list a few years ago when Mr. Littlefield came on to
announced the tilly car and its black box , you missed some fun reading ,
The car was going to go 300 miles ( don't remember exact miles ) at a race
track. Lots of press , and many on the list had ideas on how this hoax was
going to play out . The outcome was brilliant! yes Tilley is a master , and
not given do Crete for such a great con. Instead of spending money and time
, which almost everyone's guess needed , he tightened the wheel bearing so
the car( just a plane ev conversion) would only do a few laps , then drove
those few laps hard, this hard loading of the batteries made the voltage
drop , after the "bad" car bearing stopped the car , he had the reporters
come and look at the voltage on the pack and like any battery that has a
heavy load removed it was going up , which of course was because his black
box was charging the batteries, :./ simple , cheep , hay anybody with an
elective car could pull that one . At the time someone on the list had
suggested riding this media wave that tilly had made buy putting a small
windmill generator on there hood and claming it also charged the batteries
in there car with the idea that if many EV drivers all did this at the same
time it would it would 1 get big media attention for EV's and 2 when finely
exposed , might put an end to this "gen on a wheel" madness which has
pledged ev's for years. . .
6:00 news report
"after Mr. Tilly's demonstration of his EV that charged it own batteries ,
EV drivers all over America have been opening there hoods and showing news
reporters the " Tilly effect" , This small group has been under cover for
years but now That Mr. Tilly has made the technology public they to are
coming forth .
It was just a dream ,
Steve clunn
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Nick Viera [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Tom Shay wrote:
> > Replace the bearing because its grease has probably melted
> > and escaped and because whatever battered the shaft also
> > probably ruined the bearing.
>
> You make it sound so easy!
>
> For me, it is probably a job that I don't have the proper
> tools to do.
The only 'special' tool you will need is a pair of snap ring pliers, and
in a pinch you can make due with a pair of needle-nose pliers if you
really don't want to spend $10-15 on the snap ring pliers.
If this is an ADC 9", then the drive end bearing is a KOYO 6207RS (35mm
id, 72mm od, 17mm thick), the comm end bearing is a Nachi 6305.
The drive end is the easy one to do. Just unbolt the endbell and pull
it off. The bearing comes off with it, held into the endbell by a snap
ring. Remove the snap ring, flip the endbell over, then place an
appropriate diameter socket through the endbell opening against the
bearing and drive it out with a couple good taps of a ball peen hammer.
Flip the endbell over and tap the new bearing into place, then reinstall
the snap ring. Bolt the endbell back onto the motor. Ta da.
Pictures of this at:
<http://gwinfo.net/e-fiero/re-clutching/index.htm>
Cheers,
Roger.
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10.7 not more than 13 for street work.
Madman
----- Original Message -----
From: "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 12:51 AM
Subject: Advanced DC Motors brush timing
> I would like to optimise by 6.7" adc motor for forward running.
>
> I am happy for a bit of arcing etc in reverse.
>
> Can anyone on the list give me a few ball park figures to try?
>
> I have heard 5 degrees mentioned.
>
> I do not use regen for info.
>
> Thanks
>
> Regards
>
> Peter Perkins
>
> www.solarvan.co.uk
>
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Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
Recommended by Curtis. Experiences of users?
BoyntonStu
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If the following could be done there would be some advantages:
Engine: Driveshaft: Freewheel: Motor in line with driveshaft:
driveshaft: Clutch: Transmission: differential.
Advantages:
Parallel hybrid arrangement, can drive on either engine, motor, or both.
Transmission allows reverse without contactor switching for motor.
Motor regenerative braking.
Compact design.
Small engine can be augmented by motor while accelerating.
Clutch is a safety disconnect for runaway motor.
BoyntonStu
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What, no grease seal? (Just being a smartass, pay me no mind)
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:45 AM
Subject: RE: Oozing Motor?
Nick Viera [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Tom Shay wrote:
> Replace the bearing because its grease has probably melted
> and escaped and because whatever battered the shaft also
> probably ruined the bearing.
You make it sound so easy!
For me, it is probably a job that I don't have the proper
tools to do.
The only 'special' tool you will need is a pair of snap ring pliers, and
in a pinch you can make due with a pair of needle-nose pliers if you
really don't want to spend $10-15 on the snap ring pliers.
If this is an ADC 9", then the drive end bearing is a KOYO 6207RS (35mm
id, 72mm od, 17mm thick), the comm end bearing is a Nachi 6305.
The drive end is the easy one to do. Just unbolt the endbell and pull
it off. The bearing comes off with it, held into the endbell by a snap
ring. Remove the snap ring, flip the endbell over, then place an
appropriate diameter socket through the endbell opening against the
bearing and drive it out with a couple good taps of a ball peen hammer.
Flip the endbell over and tap the new bearing into place, then reinstall
the snap ring. Bolt the endbell back onto the motor. Ta da.
Pictures of this at:
<http://gwinfo.net/e-fiero/re-clutching/index.htm>
Cheers,
Roger.
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Dave [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> What, no grease seal? (Just being a smartass, pay me no mind)
The 'RS' in the bearing part number signifies a sealed bearing. Both
the drive and comm end bearings are permanently lubed and sealed.
The black 'goop' that has 'leaked' from the bearing could be the melted
seal mixed with grease. If the seals are found to be in good condition,
it would be possible to carefully pry them out with a jeweller's
screwdriver or the tip of a small blade, and then re-pack the bearing
and reinstall the seals.
Given the amount of work required to pull the motor, I think it would be
money well spent to simply spring for a new bearing instead.
Cheers,
Roger.
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Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
Use a big one :^D
I have seen folks turn the controller upside down and add a heatsink with 2'
to 3' fins and around three times the area of the Curtis at the base. Very
effective.
If seems surprising that Curtis does not recommend this (upside down). It
seems to wick the heat away very well.
Another approach that has worked well for me when airflow is limited, is to
fabricate a duct/box to surround the heatsink with fans at both ends, this
is also very effective.
Probably not a good idea to use one without a heatsink except in very
light-duty stuff.
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
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--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> The drive end is the easy one to do. Just unbolt the endbell and pull
> it off. The bearing comes off with it, held into the endbell by a snap
> ring. Remove the snap ring, flip the endbell over, then place an
> appropriate diameter socket through the endbell opening against the
> bearing and drive it out with a couple good taps of a ball peen hammer.
I just had my ADC 9 apart and I had a little more trouble than you mentioned. I
needed a puller to
get the housing/bearing off the shaft, it was a VERY tight fit. When I
reassembled them, the
bearing did not seat on the shaft by itself. The shaft and the bearing inner
race were clean and
smooth, no reason for binding. I do not have a press, so I had to carefully tap
the inner race
with a hammer and punch to get it to seat. At least I hope it seated. If the
bearing does not go
onto the shaft all the way, it will jam the rotor against the brush housing.
Make sure you spin
the rotor as you tighten it back together to check for binding. I did not
change the bearings, so
I assume that it was the original bearing. The other end went together much
easier, no problem
getting the comm end bearing to fit. Don't foget the wave spring on the comm
end.
Dave Cover
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>> So inverter grade motors are designed for high frequency then run at
>> lower frequency for speed control, running a motor designed for low
>> freq at high frequency is not 'efficient.'
Cory R. Cross wrote:
> Ah, this is what I meant. Any idea of how "not 'efficient.'"?
For a typical consumer-grade 1 horsepower induction motor, efficiency is
about:
70% for a class-D rotor (fans, furnace blower, etc.)
75% for a class-B rotor (air compressor, table saw, etc.)
80% for a class-A rotor (refrigerator, air conditioner, etc.)
I don't have any examples for class-C but it is probably in between.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Lee Hart wrote:
For a typical consumer-grade 1 horsepower induction motor, efficiency is
about:
70% for a class-D rotor (fans, furnace blower, etc.)
75% for a class-B rotor (air compressor, table saw, etc.)
80% for a class-A rotor (refrigerator, air conditioner, etc.)
I don't have any examples for class-C but it is probably in between.
Hmm, but does that change significantly at higher frequencies?
(List is a little wonky, sorry if I missed this somewhere)
Cory Cross
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Hi Chris (and all)
At 01:31 PM 20/06/05 -0400, Chris wrote:
Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but
you folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be
needing something to get started on my EV project!!!
Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
No harm in that.
So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are
stick welders too... Does this work both ways??
Sort of. The heart of any TIG welder is just a stick welder... but then
there is a fair bit of extra stuff to complicate the issue.
Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
have it work?
Yes, but very poorly. For ferrous metals, DC TIG is the way to go. Scratch
starting the torch often breaks off the tip of a carefully sharpened
tungsten electrode (pain when needing a sharp tip for small and fine work),
but once the arc is established, away you go. AC takes the current to zero
with each cycle of the mains, making it hard to keep the arc established
(more on this further down).
Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
out of my price range!!!
Hunt around for secondhand bits, and buy or build the DC and HF adaptors.
I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
there??
No-one I know of uses Helium as a shielding gas, and as a service agent for
welding gear (amongst other things), I have encountered a lot of welding
people. Why do they not use it? Don't know, but there has to be a good reason.
Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one
here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
And then connecting it to any arc welder.
That kit looks like a 170Amp air-cooled torch (actually most of the cooling
is from the shielding gas) which would be a bit light for Aluminium
welding, except in short bursts or on smaller parts. Good for smaller
ferrous stuff, though.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Chris Seeley
OK, DC TIG uses stabilised DC to weld with - either "pure" DC from an
inverter or rectified 1- or 2-phase or phase-controlled 3-phase AC that has
been put through a choke (inductor) to keep the current flowing.
You can buy welding rectifiers for this purpose, makes 'stick' nicer to
use, too. All you need are a bridge rectifier and a suitably heavy inductor
(Heavy in the size of wire it has on it). Adding capacitors if the inductor
is a bit light-on (inductance-wise) can help. Adding a capacitor on the
output can help to ignite a TIG torch on scratch starting. Adding a HF unit
to use as HF start helps *enormously* to get going on small parts (turn off
the HF once arc is established).
AC has the problem of arc current going to zero mentioned above. Good
machines use HF to start, then a synthesised AC that is chopped from DC,
"electronic square wave". This alows for changes to the average current to
allow for more penetration (Amps 'into' the job) or more surface cleaning
(amps 'out' of the job). Much more at
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_articles/ if you want to know more.
For more conventional AC work (which is becoming more in the minority all
the time) a High Frequency (HF) unit is used that runs throughout the weld
time. A high-frequency unit consists of a high-voltage transformer that has
high output impedence similar to a neon-lighting transformer. Its' output
is around 3500VAC, and is used to charge up a capacitor, which discharges
through a spark gap, many times each cycle. The discharge is dumped into a
transformer that consists of a few turns of high-current wire in the torch
output circuit, bypassed by a capacitor at the machine side.
HF units, although more complex, can be built by home-hobbyists. I have
encountered designs on the 'net, although some of them leave much to be
desired. It also may be possible to find a dead TIG and steal the HF unit
out of it and get it going.
Oh, and HF units generate a LOT of electrical noise, kill control circuits
in other welders whose work lead is clipped to the same job, wipe radio
reception, frazzle computers, etc. And can kill - electrical safety needs
to be observed.
James
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