EV Digest 4447
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: heat sink dc/dc fuses
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Induction motor info
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) My dream hybrid idea.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Oozing Motor?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Harbor Freight Welder
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Oozing Motor - Bad Bearing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: Oozing Motor?
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Welding on the cheap
by "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Taper Lock Specs? Anyone?
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Induction motor questions; class and torque/amp
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Welding on the cheap
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) EV Musings
by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Welding on the cheap
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Welding on the cheap
by Michael Hurley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 4wd utility vehicle.
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) EV Musings
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Welding on the cheap
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Oozing Motor?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Welding on the cheap
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Welding on the cheap
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Yes a heatsink always helps unless it has a plastic body. They have lots of
heatsinks at Excess Solutions in San Jose. You have to pick through
yourself. It's selfservice unless you buy on line. Please share the Vicor
converter URL. I'd buy one for that price. Lawrence Rhodes.......
----- Original Message -----
From: "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 5:36 AM
Subject: heat sink dc/dc fuses
Hey All,
I just got a new dc-dc converter. It is a Vicor Model. The web site
talks
about using a heat sink, however, the Ev person I bought the unit from
didn't mention that I needed one. It's only 8 bucks. Is it worth it. I
think
so but I don't know anything.
The manual also says that the + input should be fused but my old dc/dc
converter was not fused.
What type style of fuse should I be getting for a 120 volt pack, Should I
use those Anderson connectors on both the input and out put?
Any help would be most appreciated. I want to drive my EV again!!!!
Thanks
Joe
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roy,
I cannot picture 2 or 3 FEET fins. Is that what you meant to say?
Upside down like this:
WWWW < heat sink fins
I curtis I
BoyntonStu
----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Roy LeMeur
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 4:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
>Heat sinking a Curtis controller?
Use a big one :^D
I have seen folks turn the controller upside down and add a heatsink with 2'
to 3' fins and around three times the area of the Curtis at the base. Very
effective.
If seems surprising that Curtis does not recommend this (upside down). It
seems to wick the heat away very well.
Another approach that has worked well for me when airflow is limited, is to
fabricate a duct/box to surround the heatsink with fans at both ends, this
is also very effective.
Probably not a good idea to use one without a heatsink except in very
light-duty stuff.
.
Roy LeMeur
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.cloudelectric.com
http://www.dcelectricsupply.com
Cloud Electric Vehicles
19428 66th Ave So, Q-101
Kent, Washington 98032
phone: 425-251-6380
fax: 425-251-6381
Toll Free: 800-648-7716
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From an old book I have ( "electric motors" Anderson and Miller1978 )
Class Starting Torque Starting Current resistance
reactance slip
A normal normal
low low (shallow bar)
low
B normal low
low high (deep bar) low
C High low
both both low at rated load
D High low
high med
15-20%
E low normal
low lowest lowest
F low low
low highest(buired bar)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If the following could be done there would be some advantages:
Engine: Driveshaft: Freewheel: Motor in line with driveshaft:
driveshaft: Clutch: Transmission: differential.
Advantages:
Parallel hybrid arrangement, can drive on either engine, motor, or both.
Transmission allows reverse without contactor switching for motor.
Motor regenerative braking.
Compact design.
Small engine can be augmented by motor while accelerating.
Clutch is a safety disconnect for runaway motor.
BoyntonStu
(Originally sent 3 hours ago)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Roger Stockton wrote:
If this is an ADC 9", then the drive end bearing is a KOYO 6207RS (35mm
id, 72mm od, 17mm thick), the comm end bearing is a Nachi 6305.
Thanks for providing the bearing numbers! Who sells these? I searched
for the KOYO bearing online and didn't see any sites selling them (at
least not in USD)?
> The drive end is the easy one to do. Just unbolt the endbell and pull
> it off. The bearing comes off with it, held into the endbell by a
> snap ring.
I've tried this today. I supported the end bell w/ the still attached
armature about 2 inches above the motor casing and hit the motor shaft
repeatedly, first trying with a rubber mallet then with a hammer (with
wood between the hammer and motor shaft), and the thing won't budge at
all. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but this is definitely not as easy
as "unbolt the endbell and pull it off".
I'll try again later, but if I can't even get the stupid endbell off...
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 20 Jun 2005 12:49:11 -0400, Chris Seeley
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
>have it work?
No, not without high frequency to keep the arc lit between half
cycles. Unlike with stick welding there is nothing there to generate
a (relatively) long lived conductive plasma that carries the arc
through the zero voltage points. Even with high frequency
stabilization, welding steel with AC isn't fun. The high peak current
blows the metal around a lot.
>
>Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
>would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
>out of my price range!!!
Rather than buying some sh*t piece of chicom junk, why not save a
little and buy used? Welders don't seem to hold market value very
well so nice units are quite cheap. It's hard enough to learn to weld
with good equipment. You don't want to be fighting the welder AND
your limited skills.
>
>I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
>no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
>shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
>there??
I've tried just out of curiosity. Yes, one can make two pieces of
aluminum stick together with DC but the result is far from what I'd
call welding.
Here's the problem. Aluminum forms a very tenacious and
non-conductive oxide layer. Especially when hot. This oxide layer
must be removed in real time as the weld progresses. The two main
ways of doing this are chemically (flux) and ion bombardment. TIG
welding uses ion bombardment. Current flowing in the right direction
bombards the aluminum with ions that strip away the oxide and any
light contaminants that may be present. The problem is, when current
flows in this direction, most of the heat is delivered to the
electrode and not to the work. Reverse the polarity and the work is
heated but not cleaned.
The solution is AC. On one half cycle the work is ion bombarded and
on the other the work is heated. There really isn't any other way.
High frequency is necessary as with AC welding of steel to keep the
arc alive during the zero crossings.
BTW, helium is rarely used for TIG. The normal gas is argon.
>
>Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one
>here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
>
>And then connecting it to any arc welder.
If you really do have to go cheap and want a new TIG torch like that
one (it looks good) then you'll be a lot better off using batteries in
series rather than a cheap AC welder, and just forget aluminum (or
weld it with fluxed rods) until you can get the proper unit. 36 volts
and a salt water resistor made from a 5 gallon bucket of baking soda
or sodium hydroxide treated water and some stainless steel electrodes
will work, albeit inefficiently and with a short duty cycle unless
your batteries are large.
Seems like I recall an old Popular (mechanics|science) article on
making a water resistor that involved using a non-glazed (porous)
flower pot as the variable element. The pot was filled with baking
soda water and a carbon electrode. It was suspended from a stick into
another glazed pot (a plastic bucked would do now) also filled with
soda water. The pot was moved up and down to change the resistance.
The relatively low density of electrolyte in the porous clay offered
more resistance and more heat tolerance than would simple electrodes
stuck down in the water.
Lengths of small diameter steel rod would also make a good resistor
and could be tapped at various points to vary the current.
In your jerry rigging thinking, remember that the goal is to get the
proper type of power to the TIG torch. Rig things up to do that but
don't try to force the issue with improper power.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
First hope all went well for you. Next time just get a piece of pipe that just
fits over the shaft and will rest against the bearing. At this point you can
drive it on using a hammer or mallet. As long as you drive against the inner
race of the bearing you will not stress it. Lots of small taps, dont try to
drive it on in one blow, lol. Advance motors tend to have pretty tight
journal's. If you find your not seated just get a pipe and use it as a bearing
driver to finish seating the bearing and plate assy. If you can bench test the
motor at 12 volts to listen to the bearings before reinstalling. By the way if
you keep up the good work you're going to put me out of business, hehehe.
Good luck
Jim Husted
Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
Jim Husted wrote:
> Sounds like you just have some grease leaking from the drive end
> bearing. No problem there but being it looks "black" you may want to
> change the bearing being they usually use a light colored grease when
> manufactured. You may have no problem at all though.
If we assume that the black color is a result of friction disk dust
blowing into the ooze aka grease, would you still recommend replacing
the bearing based on the amount of grease that has accumulated there?
Other things I need to mention that haven't been brought up in other posts:
- My old transmission had been getting very hot as a result of its
internal problem(s). Thus my motor had also been running hot as a result
of it trying to spin the (apparently bad) transmission that had an
unacceptable amount of internal drag. I tried to be cautious of how I
drove to keep the motor as cool as possible, but the motor still got
really hot on many occasions. In retrospect I realize I should've
addressed this issue months ago so the motor would run cooler.
- My old transmission always leaked a little bit from the input shaft
and there is evidence of this by small amounts of transmission fluid
splattered all around the inside of the bell housing. Maybe some of that
fluid could've made its way to where the black ooze is, but then again
the black ooze seems a bit thicker than the gear oil used in my
transmission.
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Nick Viera [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Thanks for providing the bearing numbers! Who sells these? I searched
> for the KOYO bearing online and didn't see any sites selling them (at
> least not in USD)?
Don't worry about getting a Koyo or Nachi brand bearing; those are just
the makes that were in the ADC 9" we disassembled. We put SKF brand
bearings back into it (a cost of about CDN$32 for the pair, I believe).
6207RS is a standard bearing # and will cross resference to other common
brands.
> > The drive end is the easy one to do. Just unbolt the
> > endbell and pull it off.
>
> I've tried this today. I supported the end bell w/ the still attached
> armature about 2 inches above the motor casing and hit the
> motor shaft repeatedly, first trying with a rubber mallet then with a
> hammer (with wood between the hammer and motor shaft), and the thing
> won't budge at all. Maybe I'm doing something wrong, but this is
> definitely not as easy as "unbolt the endbell and pull it off".
Take the armature and endbell assembly completely out of the case so
that when they do separate the comm isn't damaged as the armature drops
into the case. Support the endbell on a couple blocks of wood such that
the comm end of the armature is a small distance (perhaps 1") above
another block of wood (to protect it from damage when it falls).
If you have one available, use a brass drift about 1" in diameter
against the end of the shaft and strike that with a hammer. Otherwise,
use a bit of aluminum sheet/plate over the end of the shaft to protect
it from the hammer blows. The wooden block is probably absorbing too
much of the energy from the hammer. A trick to remember when using a
hammer is that a single sharp blow is much more effective than a series
of more gentle taps.
Good luck!
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James, Gadget, Don, and all
Thanks for the comments.
I think I will scour ebay, and see what I can dig up.
Some food for thought, the welders at the machine shop I work at, suggested
that I try helium for dc tig welding aluminum, if ac is not available. They
use pure helium, or a helium, argon mixture when welding very thick and
large pieces of aluminum, in a production setting requiring higher currents.
They say, that the helium produces a wider, deeper penetration, and a hotter
arc, that allows them to weld faster. None of them had tried DC Tiging
aluminum, they said, however, that they had heard that it produces
structurally good, but not pretty, welds when pure helium is used for a
shielding gas.
I would be mainly welding steel, but there will be times, that it would be
nice to do aluminum. I have found a few second hand TIG torches on ebay.
I'm going to play around, (that is if they stay reasonably priced). I am
also going to try to talk one of the welders at work into testing the DC
Helium thing. We'll see, and post back the results.
James, I am also interested in the Homebrew tips that you have mentioned.
Again thanks all for your tips and suggestions, much appreciated!!
Sorry for the duplicate post?, and the request read receipt!
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com, www cmswebhosting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 6:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Welding on the cheap
Hi Chris (and all)
At 01:31 PM 20/06/05 -0400, Chris wrote:
>Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but
>you folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be
>needing something to get started on my EV project!!!
>
>Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
No harm in that.
>So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
>
>I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are
>stick welders too... Does this work both ways??
Sort of. The heart of any TIG welder is just a stick welder... but then
there is a fair bit of extra stuff to complicate the issue.
>Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
>have it work?
Yes, but very poorly. For ferrous metals, DC TIG is the way to go. Scratch
starting the torch often breaks off the tip of a carefully sharpened
tungsten electrode (pain when needing a sharp tip for small and fine work),
but once the arc is established, away you go. AC takes the current to zero
with each cycle of the mains, making it hard to keep the arc established
(more on this further down).
>Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
>would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
>out of my price range!!!
Hunt around for secondhand bits, and buy or build the DC and HF adaptors.
>I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
>no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
>shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
>there??
No-one I know of uses Helium as a shielding gas, and as a service agent for
welding gear (amongst other things), I have encountered a lot of welding
people. Why do they not use it? Don't know, but there has to be a good
reason.
>Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one
>here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
>And then connecting it to any arc welder.
That kit looks like a 170Amp air-cooled torch (actually most of the cooling
is from the shielding gas) which would be a bit light for Aluminium
welding, except in short bursts or on smaller parts. Good for smaller
ferrous stuff, though.
>Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Chris Seeley
OK, DC TIG uses stabilised DC to weld with - either "pure" DC from an
inverter or rectified 1- or 2-phase or phase-controlled 3-phase AC that has
been put through a choke (inductor) to keep the current flowing.
You can buy welding rectifiers for this purpose, makes 'stick' nicer to
use, too. All you need are a bridge rectifier and a suitably heavy inductor
(Heavy in the size of wire it has on it). Adding capacitors if the inductor
is a bit light-on (inductance-wise) can help. Adding a capacitor on the
output can help to ignite a TIG torch on scratch starting. Adding a HF unit
to use as HF start helps *enormously* to get going on small parts (turn off
the HF once arc is established).
AC has the problem of arc current going to zero mentioned above. Good
machines use HF to start, then a synthesised AC that is chopped from DC,
"electronic square wave". This alows for changes to the average current to
allow for more penetration (Amps 'into' the job) or more surface cleaning
(amps 'out' of the job). Much more at
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_articles/ if you want to know
more.
For more conventional AC work (which is becoming more in the minority all
the time) a High Frequency (HF) unit is used that runs throughout the weld
time. A high-frequency unit consists of a high-voltage transformer that has
high output impedence similar to a neon-lighting transformer. Its' output
is around 3500VAC, and is used to charge up a capacitor, which discharges
through a spark gap, many times each cycle. The discharge is dumped into a
transformer that consists of a few turns of high-current wire in the torch
output circuit, bypassed by a capacitor at the machine side.
HF units, although more complex, can be built by home-hobbyists. I have
encountered designs on the 'net, although some of them leave much to be
desired. It also may be possible to find a dead TIG and steal the HF unit
out of it and get it going.
Oh, and HF units generate a LOT of electrical noise, kill control circuits
in other welders whose work lead is clipped to the same job, wipe radio
reception, frazzle computers, etc. And can kill - electrical safety needs
to be observed.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for the machine specifications (internal) for a taper lock two
piece type hub adapter. My transmission system will be unique and I am
going to have to get the hub machined locally to get the price within reason
and to avoid shipping my transaxle across country.
If anyone can provide me with the measurements or drawings (or a link to)
for the hub using a ADC 9" type motor, I would greatly appreciate it! I
don't want to risk some other system that could potentially fail. I have
heard the "horror" stories of failures from setscrews, etc.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE "Saabrina"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cory R. Cross wrote:
> Hmm, but does [efficiency] change significantly at higher frequencies?
Not significantly; but a little of course.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Chris, what I did before I purchased a TIG was to take some lessons from
the local college. It will give you **great** appreciation for how good a
welder can be, and for hands on experience. Maybe a patient guy at the place
you work can stay late for a couple of hours and show you how it is done.
It is great to get your hands dirty and see how hard it is (or easy if you
have HF start).
The first time I tried TIG, I used my MIG reversed as a power source. What
a complete failure. The freekin thing was sticking all the time. So I
completely gave up and just did MIG (aka metal "glue gun"). After a number
of years of complaining "TIG is too hard", I asked a good friend (who just
happened to be the welding director at the local college) for some lessons.
In four hours he got me going, then sent me home to practise and practise.
It was night and day difference, I was easily welding Steel, SS and Aluminum
by the end of the session.
I purchased the cheapest AC unit (Lincoln 185), but it still cost $2000 USD.
However, like you know eBay and welding shops do get used units.
Keep in mind, the torch is the cheap half of a TIG, the power unit is the
expensive half. Both are required. DC for steel with HF start. AC HF for
aluminum.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Chris Seeley
Sent: June 20, 2005 7:01 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Welding on the cheap
James, Gadget, Don, and all
Thanks for the comments.
I think I will scour ebay, and see what I can dig up.
Some food for thought, the welders at the machine shop I work at, suggested
that I try helium for dc tig welding aluminum, if ac is not available. They
use pure helium, or a helium, argon mixture when welding very thick and
large pieces of aluminum, in a production setting requiring higher currents.
They say, that the helium produces a wider, deeper penetration, and a hotter
arc, that allows them to weld faster. None of them had tried DC Tiging
aluminum, they said, however, that they had heard that it produces
structurally good, but not pretty, welds when pure helium is used for a
shielding gas.
I would be mainly welding steel, but there will be times, that it would be
nice to do aluminum. I have found a few second hand TIG torches on ebay.
I'm going to play around, (that is if they stay reasonably priced). I am
also going to try to talk one of the welders at work into testing the DC
Helium thing. We'll see, and post back the results.
James, I am also interested in the Homebrew tips that you have mentioned.
Again thanks all for your tips and suggestions, much appreciated!!
Sorry for the duplicate post?, and the request read receipt!
Chris Seeley
www.seeleydesign.com, www cmswebhosting.com
-----Original Message-----
From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 6:49 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Welding on the cheap
Hi Chris (and all)
At 01:31 PM 20/06/05 -0400, Chris wrote:
>Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but you
>folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be needing
>something to get started on my EV project!!!
>
>Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
No harm in that.
>So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
>
>I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are
>stick welders too... Does this work both ways??
Sort of. The heart of any TIG welder is just a stick welder... but then
there is a fair bit of extra stuff to complicate the issue.
>Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
>have it work?
Yes, but very poorly. For ferrous metals, DC TIG is the way to go. Scratch
starting the torch often breaks off the tip of a carefully sharpened
tungsten electrode (pain when needing a sharp tip for small and fine work),
but once the arc is established, away you go. AC takes the current to zero
with each cycle of the mains, making it hard to keep the arc established
(more on this further down).
>Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
>would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
>out of my price range!!!
Hunt around for secondhand bits, and buy or build the DC and HF adaptors.
>I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
>no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
>shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
>there??
No-one I know of uses Helium as a shielding gas, and as a service agent for
welding gear (amongst other things), I have encountered a lot of welding
people. Why do they not use it? Don't know, but there has to be a good
reason.
>Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one here.
>http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
>And then connecting it to any arc welder.
That kit looks like a 170Amp air-cooled torch (actually most of the cooling
is from the shielding gas) which would be a bit light for Aluminium welding,
except in short bursts or on smaller parts. Good for smaller ferrous stuff,
though.
>Thanks for any suggestions.
>
>Chris Seeley
OK, DC TIG uses stabilised DC to weld with - either "pure" DC from an
inverter or rectified 1- or 2-phase or phase-controlled 3-phase AC that has
been put through a choke (inductor) to keep the current flowing.
You can buy welding rectifiers for this purpose, makes 'stick' nicer to use,
too. All you need are a bridge rectifier and a suitably heavy inductor
(Heavy in the size of wire it has on it). Adding capacitors if the inductor
is a bit light-on (inductance-wise) can help. Adding a capacitor on the
output can help to ignite a TIG torch on scratch starting. Adding a HF unit
to use as HF start helps *enormously* to get going on small parts (turn off
the HF once arc is established).
AC has the problem of arc current going to zero mentioned above. Good
machines use HF to start, then a synthesised AC that is chopped from DC,
"electronic square wave". This alows for changes to the average current to
allow for more penetration (Amps 'into' the job) or more surface cleaning
(amps 'out' of the job). Much more at
http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_articles/ if you want to know
more.
For more conventional AC work (which is becoming more in the minority all
the time) a High Frequency (HF) unit is used that runs throughout the weld
time. A high-frequency unit consists of a high-voltage transformer that has
high output impedence similar to a neon-lighting transformer. Its' output is
around 3500VAC, and is used to charge up a capacitor, which discharges
through a spark gap, many times each cycle. The discharge is dumped into a
transformer that consists of a few turns of high-current wire in the torch
output circuit, bypassed by a capacitor at the machine side.
HF units, although more complex, can be built by home-hobbyists. I have
encountered designs on the 'net, although some of them leave much to be
desired. It also may be possible to find a dead TIG and steal the HF unit
out of it and get it going.
Oh, and HF units generate a LOT of electrical noise, kill control circuits
in other welders whose work lead is clipped to the same job, wipe radio
reception, frazzle computers, etc. And can kill - electrical safety needs to
be observed.
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My posts to this list tend to be strictly technical, so now for something
completely different. As a relative newcomer to living with an EV, I would like
to present...
EV MUSINGS - My Top 10 List
1) I have not been to a gas station for over a month!
2) Out of a number of people who have driven the new electric bug, the most
common comment is a nervous laugh combined with "this is eerie it is so quiet"
3) I want more range.
4) Gas prices are at 99.9 cents a litre (this is $3.03 USD a US Gallon) - and I
don't give a s**t
5) My EV is not actually intended to move people from point A to point B, it is
actually a portable stereo. The electric motor is so I can hear the music while
moving!
6) smaller, lighter, more powerful, CHEAPER batteries would be good (hmm, seems
like I said that before)
7) I do not have an EV Grin - I am worrying too much about all the things I
changed when I converted the vehicle!
8) 40km (25miles) is not very far
9) Owning an EV does nothing to help me be humble.
10) In the years that this list has been in service I bet the most common
posting has been: "new battery promises more power, is lighter and cheaper -
coming soon!"
11) ...the second most: "How can I build a good, cheap welder?" ;-)
12) too much electricity causes brain damage. Counting is no longer an accurate
function.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:01 PM 20/06/05 -0400, you wrote:
James, Gadget, Don, and all
James, I am also interested in the Homebrew tips that you have mentioned.
Chris Seeley
Can I have some indication of whether to continue this thread on-list,
please? Although welding is relevant to EV builders, roll-your-own welding
accessories are getting a bit off topic. If enough listees are interested,
then I guess that'd be a statement of being on-topic still.
Please don't tie up bandwidth to say "take it off list" as no responses
will indicate that. If only two or three want to keep it on-list then I'll
discuss homebrew welding accessories with them directly off-list. If more
than that request to keep the thread going then that's what we'll do.
So, do we keep this thread on-list?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:37 PM +1000 on 6/21/05, James Massey wrote:
Can I have some indication of whether to continue this thread
on-list, please? Although welding is relevant to EV builders,
roll-your-own welding accessories are getting a bit off topic. If
enough listees are interested, then I guess that'd be a statement of
being on-topic still.
Please don't tie up bandwidth to say "take it off list" as no
responses will indicate that. If only two or three want to keep it
on-list then I'll discuss homebrew welding accessories with them
directly off-list. If more than that request to keep the thread
going then that's what we'll do.
So, do we keep this thread on-list?
I'd like it to stay onlist. I'm interested in the thread, though I
have nothing to contribute and have no comments as yet. I'm a (very)
amateur weldor, and I'm generally always pretty broke. Cheap ways of
improving my skill are useful to me.
--
Auf wiedersehen!
______________________________________________________
"..Um..Something strange happened to me this morning."
"Was it a dream where you see yourself standing in sort
of Sun God robes on a pyramid with a thousand naked
women screaming and throwing little pickles at you?"
"..No."
"Why am I the only person that has that dream?"
-Real Genius
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
http://www.solarfreedom.com/6superscout.htm
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My posts to this list tend to be strictly technical, so now for something
completely different. As a relative newcomer to living with an EV, I would
like to present...
EV MUSINGS - My Top 10 List
1) I have not been to a gas station for over a month!
2) Out of a number of people who have driven the new electric bug, the most
common comment is a nervous laugh combined with "this is eerie it is so
quiet"
3) I want more range.
4) Gas prices are at 99.9 cents a litre (this is $3.03 USD a US Gallon) -
and I don't give a s**t
5) My EV is not actually intended to move people from point A to point B, it
is actually a portable stereo. The electric motor is so I can hear the
music while moving!
6) smaller, lighter, more powerful, CHEAPER batteries would be good (hmm,
seems like I said that before)
7) I do not have an EV Grin - I am worrying too much about all the things I
changed when I converted the vehicle!
8) 40km (25miles) is not very far
9) Owning an EV does nothing to help me be humble.
10) In the years that this list has been in service I bet the most common
posting has been: "new battery promises more power, is lighter and cheaper
- coming soon!"
11) ...the second most: "How can I build a good, cheap welder?" ;-)
12) too much electricity causes brain damage. Counting is no longer an
accurate function.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
So, do we keep this thread on-list?
I'd like it to stay onlist. I'm interested in the thread, though I
have nothing to contribute and have no comments as yet. I'm a (very)
amateur weldor, and I'm generally always pretty broke. Cheap ways of
improving my skill are useful to me.
--
Me to ,
steve
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
.
I just had my ADC 9 apart and I had a little more trouble than you
mentioned. I needed a puller to
get the housing/bearing off the shaft, it was a VERY tight fit.
a couple of tricks come to mind here, one is to warm ( warm not over hear)
the alumanam plate , for getting the bearing off the shaft , you can
carfully cut it with a 4 and 1/2 cutting wheel on you hand grinder, just cut
a slot in the outter race and a little prying will let the inside of the
bearing fall out , now you have the inner race on the shaft , do the same
thing being carful not to grind into the motor shaft ,
When I reassembled them, the
bearing did not seat on the shaft by itself. The shaft and the bearing
inner race were clean and
smooth, no reason for binding. I do not have a press, so I had to
carefully tap the inner race
with a hammer and punch to get it to seat.
heat again might have helped , but not to much, tapping the inner race is
good ,
At least I hope it seated. If the bearing does not go
onto the shaft all the way, it will jam the rotor against the brush
housing.
Yes this is most important.
steve clunn
www.grassrootsev.com
Make sure you spin
the rotor as you tighten it back together to check for binding. I did not
change the bearings, so
I assume that it was the original bearing. The other end went together
much easier, no problem
getting the comm end bearing to fit. Don't foget the wave spring on the
comm end
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
James,
I get lots of spam. I look at "Subject" and usually just delete.
All my EV messages go into my EV folder.
If I am not interested in a particular Subject, I ignore.
In the case of Welding, I have learned so much from others.
I vote keep it.
It s like Crimping, if you want to learn about Crimping, you open, if not,
ignore.
Subjects without any interest die on the vine.
My $0.02
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of James Massey
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 11:37 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Welding on the cheap
At 10:01 PM 20/06/05 -0400, you wrote:
>James, Gadget, Don, and all
>
>James, I am also interested in the Homebrew tips that you have mentioned.
>
>Chris Seeley
Can I have some indication of whether to continue this thread on-list,
please? Although welding is relevant to EV builders, roll-your-own welding
accessories are getting a bit off topic. If enough listees are interested,
then I guess that'd be a statement of being on-topic still.
Please don't tie up bandwidth to say "take it off list" as no responses
will indicate that. If only two or three want to keep it on-list then I'll
discuss homebrew welding accessories with them directly off-list. If more
than that request to keep the thread going then that's what we'll do.
So, do we keep this thread on-list?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have a little experience in this, so I'll comment.
Air-cooled TIG is limited to sheet metal for all practical purposes. We have
a hi-freq box on a DC welder made from an old bus generator coupled to a
3-phase pump motor, and use argon gas for shielding. Cast aluminum or thick
(1/4" and up) sheet requires either a water-cooled TIG or a MIG torch.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chris Seeley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 7:01 PM
Subject: RE: Welding on the cheap
> James, Gadget, Don, and all
>
> Thanks for the comments.
>
> I think I will scour ebay, and see what I can dig up.
>
> Some food for thought, the welders at the machine shop I work at,
suggested
> that I try helium for dc tig welding aluminum, if ac is not available.
They
> use pure helium, or a helium, argon mixture when welding very thick and
> large pieces of aluminum, in a production setting requiring higher
currents.
> They say, that the helium produces a wider, deeper penetration, and a
hotter
> arc, that allows them to weld faster. None of them had tried DC Tiging
> aluminum, they said, however, that they had heard that it produces
> structurally good, but not pretty, welds when pure helium is used for a
> shielding gas.
>
> I would be mainly welding steel, but there will be times, that it would be
> nice to do aluminum. I have found a few second hand TIG torches on ebay.
> I'm going to play around, (that is if they stay reasonably priced). I am
> also going to try to talk one of the welders at work into testing the DC
> Helium thing. We'll see, and post back the results.
>
> James, I am also interested in the Homebrew tips that you have mentioned.
>
> Again thanks all for your tips and suggestions, much appreciated!!
>
> Sorry for the duplicate post?, and the request read receipt!
>
>
>
>
> Chris Seeley
>
> www.seeleydesign.com, www cmswebhosting.com
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James Massey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Monday, June 20, 2005 6:49 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Welding on the cheap
>
> Hi Chris (and all)
>
> At 01:31 PM 20/06/05 -0400, Chris wrote:
> >Sorry to post off topic, and to continue on this welding stuff, but
> >you folks have talked me into getting a welding outfit. I will be
> >needing something to get started on my EV project!!!
> >
> >Now I am trying to save a little money here!!!
>
> No harm in that.
>
> >So if you guys can tell me if this is feasible....
> >
> >I have noticed that most all TIG welders also advertise that they are
> >stick welders too... Does this work both ways??
>
> Sort of. The heart of any TIG welder is just a stick welder... but then
> there is a fair bit of extra stuff to complicate the issue.
>
> >Can I buy a good TIG torch , and connect it to an AC arc welder, and
> >have it work?
>
> Yes, but very poorly. For ferrous metals, DC TIG is the way to go. Scratch
> starting the torch often breaks off the tip of a carefully sharpened
> tungsten electrode (pain when needing a sharp tip for small and fine
work),
> but once the arc is established, away you go. AC takes the current to zero
> with each cycle of the mains, making it hard to keep the arc established
> (more on this further down).
>
> >Here is my thoughts. I mostly want to weld steel, and aluminum. I
> >would like to have a TIG welder, but the ones that are AC/DC are way
> >out of my price range!!!
>
> Hunt around for secondhand bits, and buy or build the DC and HF adaptors.
>
> >I thought about getting the one at harbor freight for about $200, but
> >no AC. I am told that you can tig aluminum with DC, using helium as a
> >shielding gas, but it isn't pretty?? Do any of you have experience
> >there??
>
> No-one I know of uses Helium as a shielding gas, and as a service agent
for
> welding gear (amongst other things), I have encountered a lot of welding
> people. Why do they not use it? Don't know, but there has to be a good
> reason.
>
> >Anyway,,,what I was thinking is buying a TIG Kit, such as the one
> >here. http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p002770.htm
> >And then connecting it to any arc welder.
>
> That kit looks like a 170Amp air-cooled torch (actually most of the
cooling
> is from the shielding gas) which would be a bit light for Aluminium
> welding, except in short bursts or on smaller parts. Good for smaller
> ferrous stuff, though.
>
> >Thanks for any suggestions.
> >
> >Chris Seeley
>
> OK, DC TIG uses stabilised DC to weld with - either "pure" DC from an
> inverter or rectified 1- or 2-phase or phase-controlled 3-phase AC that
has
> been put through a choke (inductor) to keep the current flowing.
>
> You can buy welding rectifiers for this purpose, makes 'stick' nicer to
> use, too. All you need are a bridge rectifier and a suitably heavy
inductor
> (Heavy in the size of wire it has on it). Adding capacitors if the
inductor
> is a bit light-on (inductance-wise) can help. Adding a capacitor on the
> output can help to ignite a TIG torch on scratch starting. Adding a HF
unit
> to use as HF start helps *enormously* to get going on small parts (turn
off
> the HF once arc is established).
>
> AC has the problem of arc current going to zero mentioned above. Good
> machines use HF to start, then a synthesised AC that is chopped from DC,
> "electronic square wave". This alows for changes to the average current to
> allow for more penetration (Amps 'into' the job) or more surface cleaning
> (amps 'out' of the job). Much more at
> http://www.millerwelds.com/education/tech_articles/ if you want to know
> more.
>
> For more conventional AC work (which is becoming more in the minority all
> the time) a High Frequency (HF) unit is used that runs throughout the weld
> time. A high-frequency unit consists of a high-voltage transformer that
has
> high output impedence similar to a neon-lighting transformer. Its' output
> is around 3500VAC, and is used to charge up a capacitor, which discharges
> through a spark gap, many times each cycle. The discharge is dumped into a
> transformer that consists of a few turns of high-current wire in the torch
> output circuit, bypassed by a capacitor at the machine side.
>
> HF units, although more complex, can be built by home-hobbyists. I have
> encountered designs on the 'net, although some of them leave much to be
> desired. It also may be possible to find a dead TIG and steal the HF unit
> out of it and get it going.
>
> Oh, and HF units generate a LOT of electrical noise, kill control circuits
> in other welders whose work lead is clipped to the same job, wipe radio
> reception, frazzle computers, etc. And can kill - electrical safety needs
> to be observed.
>
> James
>
>
--- End Message ---
