EV Digest 4452
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Brake Beefup Question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Welders for Sale
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: NiCd question
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: NiCd question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Brake Beefup Question
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: BB NiCd questions answered
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Brake Beefup Question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: NiCd question
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Brake Beefup Question
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Gp Lives
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Oozing Motor?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Oozing Motor?
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) NiCD charging thoughts...
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: NiCD charging thoughts...
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Hybrid design questions??
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) CFM Cooling requirements - Dual ETek & Sevcon
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Welders for Sale
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: CA ZEV Sticker
by "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: New bat pack break-in
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) CivicWithACord latest at 3,000 miles
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: CA ZEV Sticker
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: CA ZEV Sticker
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
24) Re: Oozing Motor? now short testing
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Oozing Motor? now short testing
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Latest Ghiamonster Pics and News
by "Steve Marks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: ADC Torque Curves
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: worn shafts journals
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
But I previously said that the diameter is the *same* on the front rotors
between the 2-door and 4-door. My rotors are about the rim diameters
already. I was told that the pistons may be larger in diameter on the
4-door. The only difference I noticed (from checking with a junk yard at
lunch) was the *rear* brake drums are 10" x 1.76" instead of my whimpy 8.5"
x 1.34" so that would make sense to change. If I can verify in a junk yard
(the dealer and parts places were no help) that the front pistons are
larger, then that might be worth the expense/effort. I surmise that the
4-door with the additional cargo space had larger diameter rear brakes
since, well, people might be hauling more *weight* back there. I have 4
batteries over the rear tires (total of 20 T-105's underneath the vehicle).
I was also told that there might be some aftermarket disc brake kits
available for this vehicle but then I have noticed that generally drum
brakes produce better braking with less peddle effort so I dunno if that
would be a waist of money.
Thanks, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 9:08 AM
Subject: Re: Brake Beefup Question
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Changing the rear should have a noticible effect on reduced stopping
distance in a panic stop.
>
> In a panic stop the front brakes handle up to 90 percent of the braking.
The body shifts, the rear
> end lifts, and most the work is done up front. Your best bet would be to
find a way to beef up the
> front. Larger diameter discs. Another simple, effective, but somewhat
pricey change would be to
> use stainless braided brake lines in the front. They direct more of the
pedal pressure to the
> piston for better braking.
>
> Dave Cover
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've got some nice (small) samples of a carbon fiber honeycomb composite.
REALLY light and really strong...as long as you don't try something like
setting down an un-manned airplane 30 yards short of the runway with a
barb-wire fence in between.
It's pretty neat stuff, looks like with a paper honeycomb with cloth
(arimid?) on one side (presumably to support the honeycomb when not
sandwitched), and then carbon fiber covering.
You could probably make your own similar stuff using thin, edgewise,
slices of large core cardboard. The only thing I can't quite figure out is
how you'd put the carbon fiber skin on. I don't think you could use
vacuum bagging because (I assume) you'd end up filling the honeycomb with
resin.
Any ideas? Maybe make the skin first and glue the honeycomb on afterward?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gee, Boeing Surplus only has 6 used welders for sale...
http://active.boeing.com/assocproducts/surplus/cfm/select_v4.cfm
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You need to keep the caps on if you want them to last. Otherwise the
electrolyte will get contaminated and they won't work as well.
> Ok, but is there a problem with keeping the caps LOOSE so that pressure
> doesn't build up?
> Would that cause problems? Are the caps so tight just because these cells
> were used in situations where they could get inverted for short times?
>
> At 08:58 AM 6/23/2005, Edward Ang wrote:
>>They bulge mainly from gassing not from water
>>generated during recharge. The valves on the caps
>>would only work if a higher pressure were present in
>>the cells. And, these valves are not design to hold a
>>vacuum.
>>
>>These cells started to gas way before a full charge.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I
> dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I think the Ni-cad charging-gassing (resulting in watering) problem is a
function of the 80% efficient chemistry VS 90% efficient lead-acids. (You
hafta overcharge them 20%, but the salesman overlooked this fact, it's in
*their* manual). I evaluated a couple STM-180's several months ago with
similar gassing/watering problems. I was hoping to replace my ye-ol
floodie affliction but was underwelmed by the Ni-cads. They had an
autowatering system, but occasionally one cell wouldn't fill up and you
wouldn't know it. I would have bought them if they had cell level
indicators, but this is a fundemental problem, hafta have *all* batteries
visible from the *side*. I heard of several folk's who had these Ni-cads
destroyed with dry cells and when I dropped by Saft's booth in Monaco they
said they weren't going to add cell indicators and that I should buy new
one's at $800 a pop. I don't think so. I guess I'm stuck with lead floodies
for best cost per mile even if I hafta change the heavy stinkers every year
at 10k miles. (I hope Electrovaya gets there cost down some year on the
Lithium polymer)
Have a nice day, Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Edward Ang" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 11:58 AM
Subject: Re: NiCd question
> John,
>
> I used these for a few months on my EV conversion. I
> finally got tired of adding water to 160 cells and
> switched back to AGM's. These require rigid container
> to prevent bulging. Bulging would lead to joint
> failure between the top and the case. But, I don't
> think you should squeeze them like the vacuum would.
> This might lead to insulation failure between the
> plates.
>
> They bulge mainly from gassing not from water
> generated during recharge. The valves on the caps
> would only work if a higher pressure were present in
> the cells. And, these valves are not design to hold a
> vacuum.
>
> These cells started to gas way before a full charge.
>
> Ed Ang
>
>
> --- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > I and several other people picked up some flooded
> > NiCd (BB600) cells to use
> > in our EV's. One problem is that they
> > pressurize/bulge when charged, and
> > seem to require a rigid container.
> > One of the guys found this out:
> >
> > >Another *very* interesting thing I noticed today is
> > if you leave the
> > >caps open till they are done charging and cool
> > down, then cap em, then
> > >discharge you will find they have a very
> > significant *vacuum* when you
> > >have them fully discharged.
> > >
> > >I think this is good; you cap them right after they
> > are full charge,
> > >then let them be. As you discharge water gets drawn
> > into the plates,
> > >creating the vacuum. Then when you charge, the
> > water gets drawn out,
> > >removing the vacuum but keeping them from bulging.
> > >
> > >That seems to be the magic ticket. Cap them way
> > after charge or when
> > >empty and you trap extra air in them.
> >
> > Anyone here know if this is good or bad for flooded
> > NiCd cells?
> >
> > --
> > John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> > http://www.CasaDelGato.com
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________
> Discover Yahoo!
> Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it
out!
> http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dave Cover wrote:
> --- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Changing the rear should have a noticible effect on reduced stopping
> distance in a panic stop.
>
> In a panic stop the front brakes handle up to 90 percent of the braking.
> The body shifts, the rear
> end lifts, and most the work is done up front. Your best bet would be to
> find a way to beef up the
> front. Larger diameter discs. Another simple, effective, but somewhat
> pricey change would be to
> use stainless braided brake lines in the front. They direct more of the
> pedal pressure to the
> piston for better braking.
Hi Dave,
You're close, but off the mark in some important ways. I seriously doubt
there are any cars out there that force their front tires to sustain 90% of
the braking loads even in extreme cases. That's getting dangerously close
to lifting the rear wheels off the ground, which just doesn't happen in
cars. (OK, maybe in some poorly designed conversions. ;^)
It's important to understand what you need and what different modifications
can get you. For a single stop, if you can lock all four wheels you have
all the braking power you can ever use. Bigger brakes will not stop you
quicker just because they're bigger. If any improvement in stopping
distances is to be had, it will be in brake balance - that is, the
proportion of braking force delivered to the front and rear wheels.
Bigger brakes can be a real benefit if your current system suffers from
fade. That's when a given pedal pressure gives decreasing stopping power as
the brakes heat up from continued use. It can be a serious issue for EVs
with no engine braking in hilly terrain, but this is completely separate
from single-stop braking power. I'd go for cooling improvements and
heat-resistant pads before swapping hardware.
Many conversions carry batteries in the rear and end up with a more rearward
weight distribution. Larger rear brakes *might* help compensate for this
shift. That's because the larger brakes have more "leverage" on the tires
simply by nature of their larger diameter. (You can get the same effect by
reducing wheel diameter.)
But that's not the only kind of leverage involved - hydraulics also come
into play. If those bigger brakes come with smaller diameter hydraulic
cylinders, you get no added braking power, only better fade resistance.
Be very clear about what you need, and it will be easier to get what you
want.
Chris
P.S. Braided stainless brake lines do absolutely nothing for braking power,
or to reduce fade for that matter. Pressure is pressure, no matter what's
holding it. The only benefit is that they are more rigid and provide a
better feel at the pedal. Useful on a track, but of dubious merit in street
use. They sure look cool though!
P.P.S. Shifting a car's front/rear weight distribution rearward (as most of
us do when we convert a car) has the effect of lightening the load on the
front tires. The fronts still lock first (as they were designed to) so it
feels normal, but it now happens at a lower rate of deceleration - something
that goes completely unnoticed by most drivers. Your braking power has been
reduced and you don't know it. Playing with different hydraulic cylinder
diameters, brake bias valves other hardware can pay big benefits in braking
performance. I'd like someone to do a braking test before and after a
conversion to show just how big the difference in performance can be caused
by rearward bias. Any takers?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark and All,
The BB600's, being aircraft units would
have very tight caps so not to spill electrolyte on
their precious aircraft parts that keep them in the
air ;-) only venting when really nessasary.
--- Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "These require rigid container to prevent bulging"
>
> I think I have seen two different restraining
> methods.
>
> 1) Restrain the group of 20 cells together from the
> sides, bottom and even top.
My Safts are only restrained at the ends by it's
metal box as they came and that's what I would do,
just restrain them length wise with end plates and
metal bands in 20 or so cell lots.
>
> 2) In addition to 1 have plates of some kind between
> each cell so each cell itself was individually
> restrained.
I doubt that is nessasary or wanted as extra
weight, just what you don't want.
>
> Number 2 may just be my imagination but I can see
> where if one cell bulged first it could potentially
> cause issues. Is that the case or is only 1
> required, I really hope the answer is only 1.
That's all I'd do. On mine I didn't restrain them
at all and though bulging some, after using them 5
yrs+, they still work great but if starting new again,
I'd restrain the ends only.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Mark Hastings
>
>
> Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:John,
>
> I used these for a few months on my EV conversion. I
> finally got tired of adding water to 160 cells and
> switched back to AGMs. These require rigid
That's what I figured would happen and warned you
all that watering would be a pain on very large
strings or parallel strings.
Make sure yours are easy to water as you will do
it a lot.
To keep from watering too much, don't fully charge
them each time, but only to 90% 4/5th's of the time
and fully charge them only once every 5 times or so.
Also discharge them down 80% or so each time if you
can as this cuts the number of times you need to
charge, thus water. I usually charge mine just 1/week
or when they start to lose zip which is 90%
discharged. They really don't mind this!! You can cut
watering to once a month or 2 this way. YMMV.
I didn't have any money at the time they were up
for sale but figured people would have these problems
later and be able to pick them up when they got tried
of watering them.
So if anyone is tried or for any reason don't
want yours anymore, I could use them for my small EV
trikes, bikes. Contact me!!
Is there a tool for the caps? I use a socket to
make opening them much easier though many came with a
custom tool.
> container
> to prevent bulging. Bulging would lead to joint
> failure between the top and the case. But, I don't
My SAFT's never had this problem over 5 yrs. May
though. Keep them out of the sun as their cases do not
last long in direct sunlight.
> think you should squeeze them like the vacuum would.
>
> This might lead to insulation failure between the
> plates.
>
> They bulge mainly from gassing not from water
> generated during recharge. The valves on the caps
> would only work if a higher pressure were present in
> the cells. And, these valves are not design to hold
> a
> vacuum.
I think the plates swelling is what causes the
bulging.
You shouldn't leave the caps off as this lets CO2
in which is what actually kills the cells more than
anything else!! Only uncap them for filling though
during commissioning may be good to leave them loose,
but still on them.
Make sure you use only distilled water.
>
> These cells started to gas way before a full charge.
Yes, quite actively!! You can by noticing when
each one starts bubbling know which cells may be
undercharged if they start bubbling more then 20
minutes apart depending on charge rate.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Ed Ang
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Philip Marino <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Not true - the pressure at both ends of ( and anywhere along the length of )
> the brake line is the same regardless of the material ( or stiffness) of the
> brake line.
>
You are right, the pressure is equal throughout the system, but the point of
using stainless
braids is to reduced the amount of expansion that occurs. The steel lines don't
expand, but the
flexible lines do. If the line doesn't bulge as much, more of the pedal
pressure gets to the
piston sooner. Imagine a long balloon. If you squeeze the middle the ends
bulge. The pressure is
the same throughout the system, but some of the force you are applying is used
to expand the other
parts of the balloon. It's not much, but it does add up. And the stainless
braid is stronger and
you are less likely to have a failure when you really slam on the brakes.
But more importantly, if you want to improve emergency braking, focus on the
front brakes. And
keep the whole system in good repair.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Hanson wrote:
> I think the Ni-cad charging-gassing (resulting in watering) problem is a
> function of the 80% efficient chemistry VS 90% efficient lead-acids.
It winds up being about 80%, but almost all the inefficiency comes near the
end, as you approach 100% SOC. The charge efficiency is worse with nicads
because the oxygen gassing reaction starts at a voltage *below* the fully
charged voltage. They start gassing at 1.37v but you have to take them to 1.45v
to reach "full". Thus you can't help but cause gassing to reach full charge. If
you don't charge enough to gas, you don't get past about 75% SOC.
Lead-acids start gassing at 2.37v/cell, but reach full charge at 2.25v/cell.
Thus, if you only charge to 2.25v (the "float" charging voltage, 13.5v per 12v
battery), they don't gas at all and amphour charging efficiency is essentially
100%. But, it takes *days* to reach full charge with this voltage. So most
people apply a higher voltage to reach "full" quicker, and accept the slight
loss due to gassing.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Comments interspersed.
--- Chris Tromley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I seriously
> doubt
> there are any cars out there that force their front tires to
> sustain 90% of
> the braking loads even in extreme cases. That's getting
> dangerously close
> to lifting the rear wheels off the ground, which just doesn't
> happen in
> cars. (OK, maybe in some poorly designed conversions. ;^)
They don't do stoppies because the wheels don't have enough grip, the
tires will skid before that point. Just like cars don't do wheelies,
the wheels spin first, unless you put sticky drag tires on. In alot
of front wheel drive cars the front brakes do almost all the work.
> P.S. Braided stainless brake lines do absolutely nothing for
> braking power,
> or to reduce fade for that matter. Pressure is pressure, no matter
> what's
> holding it. The only benefit is that they are more rigid and
> provide a
> better feel at the pedal. Useful on a track, but of dubious merit
> in street
> use. They sure look cool though!
Good point. Braided lines can help indirectly. If you can't lock up
your brakes, and if your rubber lines swell, putting in larger wheel
cylinders (or a smaller master cylinder bore) might have the brake
pedal hit the floor. Braided lines can bring the pedal back up due to
less swelling, and let you have more braking power with larger wheel
cylinders. (and yes, there are cars that won't lock up their brakes!
I own one! And no, it's not due to the antilock brakes.)
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Gone Postal lives...
Time out 13:05 Thursday the 23rd of June 2005. Made 750 amps in the parking
lot....
So Shawn Lawless... the controller seams to work still....
Bent metal and all.
It will make the Greenlake show this weekend.
Man I miss the tranny... My Back up was by my UPS driver..
I had to buy Rod plates and tabs Again this year....
It looks like he ponied up for the insurance.
So I am back to commuting with Gp... cool....
All you charger customers , The goods get hauled to Kingston Mail and print
in Gp.
I have to get My PFC40L liquid cooled charger installed in the back for show
and tell. Hey it's a Sales thing... I have to try to make some kind of
profit, besides that EV grin....
Note...need E-brake
And don't get caught needing reverse...
There are a host of other "improvements" that would make life in Gp a bit
less of a adventure....
Madman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: Oozing Motor?
> I looked at all the pic's and your motor is in great shape. The "bubbles"
are just dip from when the factory locked down the coils to keep them from
vibrating and ground free. Everything is go for bearing replacement
> Good luck
> Jim Husted
> Hi-Torque Electric
>
Jim are you going to mention the possibility of a Comm to shaft short, and
that the Arm should be Ohmed comm to shaft.
Oozing black goey stuff from a sealed for life brearing could be a lot other
things than just worn out.
Use a DVM and you better get 100s of K ohms to a couple of megohms. It
should read open if clean and dry.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I was a lad, we used "growlers" to test commutators for shorts and
such, and a hacksaw blade for cutting back the mica and checking for
magnetism in the armature. Is that still the way some do it, or have new
technologies prevailed?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
Children need love, especially when they do not deserve it.
- Harold S.
Hulbert
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 1:39 PM
Subject: Re: Oozing Motor?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2005 6:04 AM
Subject: Re: Oozing Motor?
I looked at all the pic's and your motor is in great shape. The
"bubbles"
are just dip from when the factory locked down the coils to keep them from
vibrating and ground free. Everything is go for bearing replacement
Good luck
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Jim are you going to mention the possibility of a Comm to shaft short, and
that the Arm should be Ohmed comm to shaft.
Oozing black goey stuff from a sealed for life brearing could be a lot
other
things than just worn out.
Use a DVM and you better get 100s of K ohms to a couple of megohms. It
should read open if clean and dry.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Charge with the caps on. However on the first charge of a brand new Saft
NiCD you're supposed to do a comissioning chargeof around 150% of the
capacity or till the cell gets to 1.5 volts. This can take awhile and
produces a lot of gas, so I think it's best to leave the caps off.
Once they are fully charged and have sat off charge for 30 minutes (but
less than 2 hours) you measure the water and bring them 1/4 inch above
the cells. Then put the caps on tight. After a discharge if you check
you will find a small vacuum in the cell; not enough to deform it, but
there. Then charge and you should find the vacuum gone 30 minutes after
full charge.
I think if you put too much water in you will swell the batteries too
much. Air compresses somewhat under pressure; water does not.
Chris
Bill Dennis wrote:
>> I've got the Marathon BB600's (might even be your old ones, Ed). So
now I'm
>> confused. Do they get charged with the caps on or off?
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Christopher Zach said:
> I think if you put too much water in you will swell the batteries too
> much. Air compresses somewhat under pressure; water does not.
I thought I read somewhere that the caps have vents built in that open at
about 2psi or so. In which case, would it matter at all what level the
water is, beyond the risk of excessive amounts of it splashing through the
vent?
I'd like to think that the electrolyte level could be brought about
halfway up the baffle under the hole after charging; this would enable a
float-based watering cap to work.
--chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for a one way freewheel and a lock up mechanism for starting
the engine that will take 20Hp.
A 4WD has a fork throw mechanism (FTM) to engage power to the rear wheels.
Imagine an engine in line with a motor having a FTM between them.
Do you think that the controllable freewheel link would serve to allow the
motor to start the engine while freewheeling all other times?
Also, is it reasonably easy to extend the motor shaft of let's say an ADC 9"
motor to allow coupling it to the engine on one end and a clutch on the
other end? Are these type motors available from the factory?
BTW A 1947 Crosley had 7 or 10 HP engines.
Anyone know what a Crosley weighed and how fast it could go?
BoyntonStu
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--- Begin Message ---
For my 3 wheeler cabinscooter project I have a pretty nice size aluminum heat
sink to go on the sevcon and I have the knock off eteks with the cooling port.
The only instructions I have is use a suitable heat sink for the sevcon.
I wanted to keep them nice and cool since I'm in Texas and I can't keep cool
myself. I saw this at surplus center
http://www.surpluscenter.com/item.asp?UID=2005062316405510&item=16-1258&catname=
It's a 53 volts 3 speed dc squirrel cage blower that does around 400 cfm. I'm
using 48vdc so I could use pack voltage to run it. I have to wonder about the
16 lb shipping weight though it seems kind of high. Is this too too much? It
is pretty cheap and would save some amps from a DC/DC rather then using a
similar sized 12vdc blower or blowers.
I could always use it to cool me also.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:43 AM 23/06/05 -0700, Don wrote:
Gee, Boeing Surplus only has 6 used welders for sale...
http://active.boeing.com/assocproducts/surplus/cfm/select_v4.cfm
Oh wow... Just as well I'm half a planet away... all the other STUFF....
Big welders, though. If one can be got for a good enough price, and have
the space, why not?
Would have to go and look, see what else is with each lot. Might me worth
as much in accessories with it as the power source.
And there are transformers, and chargers without voltages listed....pant,
pant..
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 06:54 PM 6/22/05 -0700, you wrote:
My California ZEV parking sticker arrived today -- number 211. From
this I surmise that the ZEV sticker program is not all that popular.
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
A lot of EV drivers don't seem to know about the parking sticker requirement,
and I don't think anyone will get a ticket from parking an EV at a charger.
These stickers also cost more than the clean air decals for the carpool lane.
I have sticker #178 on one of my EVs.
George S.
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Thanks, Nick. I'm running USBattery, which have a
slightly different charge algorithm.
As was pointed out on the original post, these are
Trojans, so follow Nick's advice. Like I said, there
will be some permutations, but this will get him
started.
peace,
--- Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Bob Bath wrote:
> > If I did my math correctly, you're running 144
> volts. You want to
> > charge to around 2.65 volts per cell. 72 cells
> times 2.65 is 191
> > volts.
>
> 2.65 volts per cell sounds like the voltage for an
> equalization charge.
> Trojan's website says to charge to around 2.47 volts
> per cell for a
> typical daily charge. So that would be about 178
> volts for a 72 cell pack.
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
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Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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1) Controller (DCP Raptor) was refurb'd by Peter
Senkowski & reinstalled. New one works just fine;
apparently he has made some revisions to the original
Raptor circuit.
2) Transmission still noisy. I'm thinking that in
1994 (2 years after purchase), the car hit a curb
during a hard So. Cal. rain (yes, there is such a
thing), and that was what doomed what I'm now certain
is a bearing. Different loading by the combustion
engine may have masked the sound of it during it's
life as an ICE. Anyway, I go into the local JC and
have it swapped with a 101K mile tranny on 7/18/05, so
I'm pretty excited about that.
3) Still wondering whether I do another conversion
(for my daughter, who will begin driving in 4 years,
although I should be able to do one in 6 mos., now
that I've done one start-to-finish!) or perhaps oil
prices will rise to the point that I can make a living
a la Mike Brown's ElectroAutomotive, but with my
CivicWithACord. I'd only do sedans and coupes, not
the hatchbacks, and pref. to go with LiPo once BMS are
established. So much to think about.
4) Now that I've gotten in a _real_ equalization
charge, the batteries are really giving some good
service!
That's about it from here.
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
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--- Begin Message ---
Worse, I do not know of any ICE being ticketed from
parking at an EV charging spot.
Ed Ang
--- "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 06:54 PM 6/22/05 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >My California ZEV parking sticker arrived today --
> number 211. From
> >this I surmise that the ZEV sticker program is not
> all that popular.
> >
> >Brian
> >http://www.skewray.com/alfa
>
> A lot of EV drivers don't seem to know about the
> parking sticker requirement,
> and I don't think anyone will get a ticket from
> parking an EV at a charger.
> These stickers also cost more than the clean air
> decals for the carpool lane.
> I have sticker #178 on one of my EVs.
>
> George S.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
While not an official ticket, I did have an SUV chased out of my EV spot here
at Adobe last year ;)
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 16:38:45 -0700 (PDT)
Subject: Re: CA ZEV Sticker
Worse, I do not know of any ICE being ticketed from
parking at an EV charging spot.
Ed Ang
--- "George S." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 06:54 PM 6/22/05 -0700, you wrote:
>
> >My California ZEV parking sticker arrived today --
> number 211. From
> >this I surmise that the ZEV sticker program is not
> all that popular.
> >
> >Brian
> >http://www.skewray.com/alfa
>
> A lot of EV drivers don't seem to know about the
> parking sticker requirement,
> and I don't think anyone will get a ticket from
> parking an EV at a charger.
> These stickers also cost more than the clean air
> decals for the carpool lane.
> I have sticker #178 on one of my EVs.
>
> George S.
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Jim are you going to mention the possibility of a Comm. to shaft short, and
that the Arm should be Ohmed comm. to shaft. Oozing black gooey stuff from a
sealed for life bearing could be a lot of other things than just worn out. Use
a DVM and you better get 100s of K ohms to a couple of megohms. It should read
open if clean and dry.
Manzanita Micro.
Rich Rudman
As the post was talking about bearing and the ooze they leave, I assumed that
it was just grease and that most of the black was from some foreign matter
mixed with the grease, at worse case a over heated bearing. Okay here comes
tranny problems being mentioned. Being that there were about 20 suggestions
sent to the thread I felt that enough rescuers were present. I had again
"assumed" that the problem had been solved. Pictures say a thousand words and
his pic's tell me that all is good in the world of the oozing thread here. I
will bet you that there is no ground (a short to the steel body, or frame) in
that armature, and or housing assy.
I test at 40M but a 10K OHM meter is what most shops use for standard short
tests. No motor should show any continuity between anything copper to anything
steel. If in fact you have a short going to ground let me know. You should
blow out your motor in a well-vented area like outside before testing to remove
dusty brush material from motor. DO NOT BREATHE DUST! Also while we are at it
you might consider having the armature turned and undercut, IF you felt that
the comm. was out of round at all. Any motor shop that has an under-cutter
shouldnt charge more than ½ hour to just turn it. Just a thought as I dont
want Rich on my case now : ) Okay next up.
When I was a lad, we used "growlers" to test commentators for shorts and such,
and a hacksaw blade for cutting back the mica and checking for magnetism in the
armature. Is that still the way some do it, or have new technologies prevailed?
David C. Wilker Jr. USAF (RET)
For your basic formed coil D.C. motor the growler is still used and is standard
equipment for a shop. For those who may have never seen one they are a simple
transformer with a laminated steel V block where you would set the armature.
When sliding a hack saw blade along the steel body of the armature you feel a
growling magnetism whenever there is a short between normally 2 windings. Most
of the time its a small chip in-between one or several mica slots. Sometimes
they can be located on the riser part of the comm. If the short is not there
then the windings are shorted and the armature will need to be rewound. If
your armature were in fact shorted you would know if because it bucks like a
wild stallion and at your guys voltage would probably leave a nice smoke cloud.
Another neat trick a growler can do is detect shorts in coils by bridging the
ends of the V with a laminated metal bridge bar and run the coil through the
bridge to the V tops if the coil gets hot its s!
horted.
Hope this helped
Jim Husted
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"Hope this helped
Jim Husted"
Jim,
Just wanted to chime in here.
I'm a power electronics guy that likes to learn about
motors.
Your posts are awesome and I'm learning lots of new
tricks and insites.
Practical knowledge like yours is worth more than
volumes of textbooks!
Thanks for being on the list!!
Rod
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Hi All,
I just posted the latest pictures received from the builder at
http://www.ghiamonster.com/tasks.html . Towards the bottom of the page
in the section marked "Component Placement Changes" there's a "Before"
and "After" segment. In the "After" segment towards the bottom of the
list of pictures, images of the motors and batteries can be found
mounted in the vehicle with the body placed on the frame. Also mounted
is the steering mechanism.
The builder of the Ghiamonster, Ron Lummus from Ron Lummus Racing (
http://www.ronlummusracing.com <http://www.ronlummusracing.com/> ) had
some interesting news for me when he called. It seems he and Jesse
James got together to film an episode of Monster Garage called "Old
School Bug" which is supposed to air sometime near the end of August -
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/apcm/templates/news_template.asp?article
id=5475&zoneid=11 . Apparently, when Jesse visited Ron's shop, he was
much interested in what he saw of the Ghiamonster. Ron says they took
some video and that it just *might* get some air time on the show so
don't forget to put your DVRs on alert. Oh, and while you're at it,
make sure to record any NHRA Sport Compact competitions you see as Ron
is likely to be there taking first or second place in the "Hot Rod"
class in his FWD Pontiac Sunfire -
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2005/drivers/r_lummus.html
http://www.nhrasportcompact.com/2005/stats/2005scorecard.html
Steve
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The theory that this effect is due to decreasing permiability is testable.
Dividing the currents at a torque=20 by torque=10 gives a ratio of 1.7.
Doing the same for T=140/T=70 gives 1.7 also. I therefore conclude that
the power law holds for all field intensities over which this motor
operates, and that there are no saturation effects.
The idea that the voltage is not correct will certainly throw off the
efficiency, but that won't change the torque/current, though.
Any other suggestions?
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
Someone wrote:
> The change in exponent is due to non-linear behavior in the
> magnetic properties in the motor's steel. I^2 is for linear material.
>
> Less than second power is the result of decreasing permeability in
> the motor's steel.
>
> Also, on some curves ADC included pack resistance in the voltage
> plot i.e. the voltage is not motor terminal voltage, but the ideal pack
> voltage.
>
> This will through off your projected eff. if they have done this.
Someone else wrote:
> As you have observed, torque is not proportional to I^2, but closer to
> I^1.3.
> Magnetic saturation is the main effect that makes torque less than
> proportional to I^2. If you do curve fitting at various current ranges, you
> will find a larger exponent will fit better at lower values of current and a
> smaller exponent at higher currents.
Brian wrote:
>> I found a set of curves on the web for the motor I am using, the ADC
>> X91-4001.
>> I have been trying to fit them with a set of smooth curves, but I do not
>> understand the results I get. According the my random web searches, series
>> motors should have T = k I^2, where T is the torque and I is the current.
>> What I get is a very good fit to T = k I^1.268. Does anyone have any idea
>> what this is due to, and if there are better equations to explain the effect?
>> I muse that it could be a commutation effect of some sort, or leakage
>> inductance, or somesuch. Or ADC mislabeled a plot for a compound DC motor...
>>
>> Brian
>> http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
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> bearing was sooo loose that I had to dimple the
> shaft to snug it up so it wasn't loose.
>
> I use a knurler to bring up the diameter of a slightly undersized
> shaft journals. I see shafts where people put 10 dimmples with a
> prick punch. This can cause your bearing to sit unevenly on the
> shaft and also leaves the bearing on little risers, and not resting
> on the shaft. In a pinch for all the in-house guys without the
> proper tooling use an old file with teeth on the thin edge. Lightly
> rap the shaft with even small blows on the thin edge of the file.
> This will leave really small lines like a knurl and you can get a
> good even amount of build up from end to shoulder. A lot of small
> file teeth lines are better than just a few large puch dimmples. Use
> some loc-tite to secure it and this will serve you better than using
> a punch.
Another thought on the situation... tolerances..
Say for example, the spec on the motor shaft can range anywhere from
xx to xx(whatever the numbers are).
The motor shaft in question might be of the smallest size and still
fall within spec.
Now with the bearings, exact same thing. Can range anywhere from xx to xx.
If you had a bearing that was the absolute smallest tolerance allowed,
would the shaft and bearing fit up properly then?
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