EV Digest 4451
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Motor Idea. ( Hybrid PM DC/AC )
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: article: rMOTO Electric Superbike Expected in January 2006
by Paul Wujek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
by John Lussmyer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) CA ZEV Sticker
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) ADC Motor Curves
by "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) An ideas, intermitant problem?
by "Catherine C. Burgard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: ADC Motor Curves
by Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
by "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Oozing Motor?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: ADC Motor Curves
by "Tom Shay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: New bat pack break-in
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
by "Jim Waite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: New bat pack break-in
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: More Motor Ideas. ( Hybrid PM DC/AC )
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: An ideas, intermitant problem?
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Oozing Motor?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Brake Beefup Question
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Fast charging and battery revival. Does it work?
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Oozing Motor?
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Oozing Motor?
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Brake Beefup Question
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Oozing Motor?
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) worn shafts journals
by "hi_torque_electric" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) NiCd question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: NiCd question
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: NiCd question
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: NiCd question
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: More Motor Ideas. ( Hybrid PM DC/AC )
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Brake Beefup Question
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) curtis 1221 current limit curcuit
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) RE: NiCd question
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: NiCd question
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
You are missing that the rotation of the rotor is not at the same speed
as of the magnetic field (there is a slip if induction principle is
deployed) which is not possible with brushes. You get any variable
advancement you want, but one full revolution of the rotor always equals
one full revolution of the mag field. So you only can build synchronous
motor the way you suggest. So you suggest for the motor invert input DC
for itself, so no external inverter needed and this resulting AC is fed
to the
3 (or whatever) phase stator instead of to the rotor as it is done
in plain DC motor, right?
As I understand, you only switch places for stator and rotor ("invert"
a DC motor) and replace electro-magnet in a rotor (which use to be a
field winding on DC machine) with the permanent magnet one.
Still have issue with brushes not withstanding high RPM but now
also you got limited torque (by the limited strength of PM).
What exactly is the point of doing this and advantages vs DC series
or shunt motor then? Those also need no external inverter...
Victor
Lightning Ryan wrote:
So, I've been thinking about what might be a new idea for motor
design based on a merging of the E-Tek and IMA-ish BLDC motors.
Here's how it works, we start out by inverting an E-Tek placing the
Perminent Magnets on the rotor and making the coils fixed and
stationary or even intigrated directly into the case.
Now if a portion of the stationary coil were exposed one could
attach a rotating brush housing setup to the rotors shaft and
then connect DC to this rotating brush housing via slip ring
brushes. Yes there are now two sets of brushes but their use
is optional and the entire brush housing could be removed.
Such a motor would opperate with an external controller as a
brushless ?2-phase? motor by powering the stationary coils directly.
Perhaps it could be configured as a 3-phase, but I'm not sure.
Or using the brush adapter the same motor could be opperated as a
low cost brushed DC motor without any fancy external AC controller.
Or both could be used at once turning the motor into a sort of DC/AC
converter or "Hybrid" AC/DC PM motor.
What do you think? Am I missing something, maybe they already exist?
L8r
Ryan
ps. to clarify the whole brush thing...
- Idealy there would be no brushes and one would use an external
. DC-AC controller to energize the stationary coils.
Withough such a controller in place:
- Since the coils are stationary, the brushes must rotate to
. provide the mechanical DC to AC switching, attaching a rotating
. set of brushes to the output shaft should serve this function.
- Now that the brushes are rotating and "floating" such that they
. can be simply wired to a second set of brushes is required to
. deliver the DC to the rotating mechanical AC brushes.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looking over their site, they say that they have put together several
prototypes, and are launching production for delivery to Europe in 2006.
James Jarrett wrote:
That's cool and all. I wish them luck, but I was looking at some of
their other stuff and saw the Vectrix Scooter. Are these just vaporware
or can you buy one? It would be absolutely perfect for my daily commute
if it *REALLY* exists.
James
On Tue, 2005-06-21 at 21:26, Paul Wujek wrote:
A high-powered electric motorcycle expected to go into production:
http://www.realtechnews.com/posts/1458
Gizmag article:
http://www.gizmag.com/go/4105/
The manufacturer's site:
http://www.robrady.com/
--
Paul Wujek ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) h:(905)279-5885 c:(416)892-5885
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 01:32 PM 6/22/2005, you wrote:
Living near Seattle you should have aircraft
surplus yards you may be able to get slightly
defective or other fairly cheap. But new they are
$200-$500/4'x8' sheet. More if carbon fiber.
Boeing Surplus is a WONDERFUL place...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My California ZEV parking sticker arrived today -- number 211. From
this I surmise that the ZEV sticker program is not all that popular.
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a set of curves on the web for the motor I am using, the ADC X91-4001.
I have been trying to fit them with a set of smooth curves, but I do not
understand the results I get. According the my random web searches, series
motors should have T = k I^2, where T is the torque and I is the current.
What I get is a very good fit to T = k I^1.268. Does anyone have any idea
what this is due to, and if there are better equations to explain the effect?
I muse that it could be a commutation effect of some sort, or leakage
inductance, or somesuch. Or ADC mislabeled a plot for a compound DC motor...
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Intermitant buzzing, it's coming from under the seat where all of my
components are. In forward it sounds like a moaning cow, in reverse it is
higher pitched, but hear again it is only sometimes.
We took it to breakfast this morning just fine, no buzzing.
This evening went to town and started buzzing, but doesn't buzz all the time.
Coming home the amps dropped down to about 4 to 5 on the amp meter, I just kept
going and out of the blue it jumped back up to 125 amps. It did this several
times on the way home. Sometimes I had to pull over for cars, and after a few
minutes sometimes it was good to go for a little more and sometimes I had to
wait a bit longer to get it going.
All the batteries are fine and the connections are good. The contactor was
rebuilt and is in good shape.
My husband doesn't think it's the motor or brushes, he took it out and checked
it over when we got the car.
Could the controller be dieing? What about the cylinoid thing next to the bus
bar?
Any thoughts would be appreciated.
Catherine
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The change in exponent is due to non-linear behavior in the
magnetic properties in the motor's steel. I^2 is for linear material.
Less than second power is the result of decreasing permeability in
the motor's steel.
Also, on some curves ADC included pack resistance in the voltage
plot i.e. the voltage is not motor terminal voltage, but the ideal pack voltage.
This will through off your projected eff. if they have done this.
-----Original Message-----
From: "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Jun 22, 2005 10:03 PM
To: EV List <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Subject: ADC Motor Curves
I found a set of curves on the web for the motor I am using, the ADC X91-4001.
I have been trying to fit them with a set of smooth curves, but I do not
understand the results I get. According the my random web searches, series
motors should have T = k I^2, where T is the torque and I is the current.
What I get is a very good fit to T = k I^1.268. Does anyone have any idea
what this is due to, and if there are better equations to explain the effect?
I muse that it could be a commutation effect of some sort, or leakage
inductance, or somesuch. Or ADC mislabeled a plot for a compound DC motor...
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It makes great battery boxes, We use it fro the battery box floor in "Gone
Postal". Dave Cloud builds whole cars from it. It is just wonderful stuff.
It is available from Boeing Surplus if Dave hasn't beaten you to it :-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 2:12 PM
Subject: Re: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
At 01:32 PM 6/22/2005, you wrote:
Living near Seattle you should have aircraft
surplus yards you may be able to get slightly
defective or other fairly cheap. But new they are
$200-$500/4'x8' sheet. More if carbon fiber.
Boeing Surplus is a WONDERFUL place...
--
No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.11/26 - Release Date: 6/22/2005
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.7.11/26 - Release Date: 6/22/2005
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Okay, I got a chance to pull out the motor armature this evening. It was
the first time I got to see the insides of my motor, and I must say I
found it impressive!
I'm glad I bought two new bearings, because upon removing the armature I
discovered that _both_ the front and rear bearings in my motor have been
oozing. :-( I tried again to remove the bearings but was unsuccessful.
Both the main and comm-end bearings are tightly pressed onto the motor
shaft. For the next try I'm going to rent a puller from the auto parts
store and see if that'll help.
I won't have a chance to do this until Sunday, as I'm going to Houston
for the next few days to, among other things, help my uncle get his old
cheese-wedge (aka. CitiCar) out of storage and operational again! :-)
Oh, and one last thing... I noticed that the tops of some of the coils
in my motor appear to have "bubbles" on them. This concerns me, because
I fear that the enamel coating had gotten too hot.
Pictures are here: ( http://www.driveev.com/temp/adcapart/ ). The
"bubbles" can be seen best in coils5.jpg and coils6.jpg images...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As you have observed, torque is not proportional to I^2, but closer to
I^1.3.
Magnetic saturation is the main effect that makes torque less than
proportional to I^2. If you do curve fitting at various current ranges, you
will find a larger exponent will fit better at lower values of current and a
smaller exponent at higher currents.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Brian M. Sutin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV List" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 7:03 PM
Subject: ADC Motor Curves
I found a set of curves on the web for the motor I am using, the ADC
X91-4001.
I have been trying to fit them with a set of smooth curves, but I do not
understand the results I get. According the my random web searches,
series
motors should have T = k I^2, where T is the torque and I is the current.
What I get is a very good fit to T = k I^1.268. Does anyone have any idea
what this is due to, and if there are better equations to explain the
effect?
I muse that it could be a commutation effect of some sort, or leakage
inductance, or somesuch. Or ADC mislabeled a plot for a compound DC
motor...
Brian
http://www.skewray.com/alfa
--
Brian M. Sutin, Ph.D. Astronomical Optical Engineering and Software
Skewray Research/316 W Green St/Claremont CA 91711 USA/(909) 621-3122
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi there!
Doesn't look like you've gotten many responses yet,
so here goes.
If I recall, the T125s are a 6V battery. That means 3
cells per battery.
3 cells, x 24 batteries is 72 cells. If I did my math
correctly, you're running 144 volts.
You want to charge to around 2.65 volts per cell.
(This will vary a bit depending on temperature).
72 cells times 2.65 is 191 volts. That is the maximum
charge. Your charger should taper the amps down and
the voltage should rise beginning at about 180 volts
or less.
When you're breaking in the new pack, no hard
current draws, (ie, leadfooting it) such that the pack
voltage drops below 126. This is called reversing
cells and will shorten the life of your pack. So take
it for short spins, increasing in length, for about 10
charge/discharge cycles. Other people will probably
chime in with more particulars, but this is the
general framework that you'll be in.
Equalize (8 amps until all the cells give the same
specific gravity reading) about every 10 cycles.
Best to you.
--- Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> I have a friend that just got a new battery pack, 24
> T-125's, we're going to put them in today. He bought
> a conversion from the EV list, a Ram -50 with a 9"
> ADC, Auburn C600 controller, K&W BC-20 charger,
> Sevcon DC-DC. Batteries were very dead...
>
> How should the pack be broken in?
>
> What should the charger be set at?
>
> Any other helpful info about the components would be
> appreciated.
>
> Thanks
>
> Rush
> Tucson AZ
> www.ironandwood.org
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Don & All,
I thought maybe Roy Lemur might chime in, but as Roderick & others
mentioned, Dave & Steve Cloud have used composite sheets in their vehicles
(boats, on-road, & Electrathons) many times. It's listed on their website
http://www.cloudelectric.com/item.jhtml;$sessionid$U4Z1H3IAAADZBTZENUFUTIWPE
RWRJPX0?UCIDs=866086%7C881982&PRID=708876 and you're relatively close so you
might want to see what they might have for your project.
[When I lived in the Seattle area, I use to scrounge through the bins at
Boeing Surplus nearly every other weekend, but I think the Clouds had an
"inside track" and somehow managed to end up with a good amount (all?) of
anything that came in)
-----Original Message-----
From: Don Cameron (New Beetle EV) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 11:09 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Honeycomb Aluminum Composites
Has anybody worked with aluminum or composite honeycomb panels? I am
curious as
to what kind of panels are used in automobile or boat applications and of
their
cost.
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Bob Bath wrote:
If I did my math correctly, you're running 144 volts. You want to
charge to around 2.65 volts per cell. 72 cells times 2.65 is 191
volts.
2.65 volts per cell sounds like the voltage for an equalization charge.
Trojan's website says to charge to around 2.47 volts per cell for a
typical daily charge. So that would be about 178 volts for a 72 cell pack.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/23/05, jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> What's the best way to take transformer lams
> apart? Soak it in alcohol?
I just split them with a stanley knife and peel them off, one at a
time. If you're re-stacking them, you've got to handle them anyway so
it's not as bad as it sounds.
That said, I'd like to hear of a way to dissolve the enamel too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 6/23/05, Catherine C. Burgard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Intermitant buzzing, it's coming from under the seat where all of my
> components are. In forward it sounds like a moaning cow, in reverse it is
> higher pitched, but hear again it is only sometimes.
> We took it to breakfast this morning just fine, no buzzing.
> This evening went to town and started buzzing, but doesn't buzz all the time.
> Coming home the amps dropped down to about 4 to 5 on the amp meter, I just
> kept going and out of the blue it jumped back up to 125 amps. It did this
> several times on the way home. Sometimes I had to pull over for cars, and
> after a few minutes sometimes it was good to go for a little more and
> sometimes I had to wait a bit longer to get it going.
Does your vehicle have a curtis controller, a 1221 model maybe? If
overheated, the frequency drops and you hear this groaning noise from
the motor. The power is also reduced by a large amount. Maybe try
keeping the controller cool as an experiment to see if it's this - a
bag of ice on the flat side should do temporarily.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:00 PM 22/06/05 -0500, Nick wrote:
Oh, and one last thing... I noticed that the tops of some of the coils in
my motor appear to have "bubbles" on them. This concerns me, because I
fear that the enamel coating had gotten too hot.
Pictures are here: ( http://www.driveev.com/temp/adcapart/ ). The
"bubbles" can be seen best in coils5.jpg and coils6.jpg images...
From what little experience I've had of unhappy DC motors, yours looks
..well.. new! The bubbles are most likely from manufacture. They look like
when they baked the windings, the varnish was not dry, and made bubbles.
But this is a question for Jim Husted. Jim?
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Howdy folk's
I noticed that a (96') Geo tracker 4-door had bigger brakes than a 2-door which
is what my brake challenged conversion is at 3900 lbs. It's interesting to
note that the front disc rotor is the *same* diameter, only thicker, dual disc
with inside vent for cooling. The rear drums are 2" greater in diameter than
mine. So I assume that changing the front disc rotors would have no effect in
quicker stopping (onless I had extended braking like down Pike's Peak (where I
used to live). Changing the rear should have a noticible effect on reduced
stopping distance in a panic stop. I already disabled the rear pressure
regulator but the whimpy rears are only 7" diam and would goto 9". Has anyone
done this and will 4-door Geo-Tracker brakes & plates bolt up (swap) with a
2-door? I have a 4-wheel drive model I assume brakewise it's the same as a
2-wheel drive?
Thanks, Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, I evaluated pulse chargers and pulsing devices when I was at GE-EV
96-99' working with Trojan Battery and found no (as well as Jim Drizos with
Trojan) pulse devices that were more than snake-oil. There's no free lunch
we found, just traditionally being nice to your batteries, no more than 80%
DOD and charging properly with occasional (about every 10 cycles) equalize
for floodies.
Mark
> This is from the NEV list.
>
> Furthermore, there is little interest in two recent breakthrough
> processes developed in the last two years: Battery Revival (no need
> to recycle batteries, just revive them) and the 15-Minute battery
> charge. The reason I say this is that the eBay listings for these
> didn't get any bidders. OK, so one individual bought the 15-minute
> plans, but he left a Neutral feedback, suggesting that he didn't
> even bother to build the device. Another big yawn from that buyer --
> obviously he didn't need the technology.
>
> Could be there is little trust in these devices. Unless there is a proven
> technology nobody is going to buy a pig in a poke. I have yet to see any
> device that will revive batteries. Now you can fast charge batteries but
it
> costs money. A 50 amp buck charger at 48v on 4 12v batteries. 15
minutes.
> No problem. Costs 3000 dollars. You going to cough it up? Pulse
charging
> is supposed to revive batteries. I know some that are building them.
> Nobody has commented yet. I just don't know. But I'd like to find out.
> Lawrence Rhodes......
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I looked at all the pic's and your motor is in great shape. The "bubbles" are
just dip from when the factory locked down the coils to keep them from
vibrating and ground free. Everything is go for bearing replacement
Good luck
Jim Husted
Hi-Torque Electric
Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
Okay, I got a chance to pull out the motor armature this evening. It was
the first time I got to see the insides of my motor, and I must say I
found it impressive!
I'm glad I bought two new bearings, because upon removing the armature I
discovered that _both_ the front and rear bearings in my motor have been
oozing. :-( I tried again to remove the bearings but was unsuccessful.
Both the main and comm-end bearings are tightly pressed onto the motor
shaft. For the next try I'm going to rent a puller from the auto parts
store and see if that'll help.
I won't have a chance to do this until Sunday, as I'm going to Houston
for the next few days to, among other things, help my uncle get his old
cheese-wedge (aka. CitiCar) out of storage and operational again! :-)
Oh, and one last thing... I noticed that the tops of some of the coils
in my motor appear to have "bubbles" on them. This concerns me, because
I fear that the enamel coating had gotten too hot.
Pictures are here: ( http://www.driveev.com/temp/adcapart/ ). The
"bubbles" can be seen best in coils5.jpg and coils6.jpg images...
Thanks,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If this doesn't work, find someone with a small hydraulic press.
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dave Cover" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EVList" <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, June 22, 2005 1:34 PM
Subject: Fwd: Re: Oozing Motor?
> --- Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > I still haven't been able to get the end bell + bearing off the motor
> > shaft, but now that I've read your suggestions, I'll pull the whole
> > armature out tonight and give it another shot, then let you all know how
> > it went ;-)
> >
> I used a 2 jaw gear puller that just barely fit. I was just able to get
the jaws to catch the edge
> of the housing. Be careful of whatever means you use, because the aluminum
housing will take the
> brunt of the force. If you could drill a heavy steel plate with four holes
to match the mount
> holes, you could make a nice simple puller. It would distribute the force
across the whole
> housing.
>
> When I used to pull really tight pulleys off of large diesels, one
technique worked pretty good.
> We would tighten up the puller as tight as possible (to the point of
almost bending wrenches.) If
> the pulley wouldn't come off, a good rap on the end of the puller with a
16 oz. hammer, inline
> with the shaft, ussually shocked it loose. You have to be pretty
deliberate, but not abusive.
>
> Good luck
>
> Dave Cover
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
--- Mark Hanson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Changing the rear should have a noticible effect on reduced stopping distance
> in a panic stop.
In a panic stop the front brakes handle up to 90 percent of the braking. The
body shifts, the rear
end lifts, and most the work is done up front. Your best bet would be to find a
way to beef up the
front. Larger diameter discs. Another simple, effective, but somewhat pricey
change would be to
use stainless braided brake lines in the front. They direct more of the pedal
pressure to the
piston for better braking.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One last thing here. All bearings will ooze a little grease as they
are run, do to the ball bearings pushing the grease out of the way.
As the bearings heat up during use the grease gets more fluid and is
pushed out of the seal. I just wanted to let you know before you
installed the new bearings only to find that they are spitting grease
again. This is normal, it was the black color that said you (might
have) had a bad bearing. Hearing you had other issues says it's good
you are changing them out. Just thought I'd let you know you will
probably get more oozing. Even at a low volt bench test you will see
it starting to spit out a bit. I just thought this might keep you
from freaking out, thinking you did something wrong. By the way a low
volt bench test would be nice before reinstalling the unit just to
make sure the bearing sound good.
Good luck Sunday
Jim Husted
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Lucky you's MY bearing was sooo loose that I had to dimple the
shaft to snug it up so it wasn't loose. I hafta change thre bearings
again, now, as they are noisy again. Gotta get a better than stock
japanesy ones I guess?
Seeya
Bob
I use a knurler to bring up the diameter of a slightly undersized
shaft journals. I see shafts where people put 10 dimmples with a
prick punch. This can cause your bearing to sit unevenly on the
shaft and also leaves the bearing on little risers, and not resting
on the shaft. In a pinch for all the in-house guys without the
proper tooling use an old file with teeth on the thin edge. Lightly
rap the shaft with even small blows on the thin edge of the file.
This will leave really small lines like a knurl and you can get a
good even amount of build up from end to shoulder. A lot of small
file teeth lines are better than just a few large puch dimmples. Use
some loc-tite to secure it and this will serve you better than using
a punch. Not an awesome repair but does nicely in a pinch or for
those unable to spend the money for a weld job or new shaft.
Just a tought here as I sometimes have to do this do to a slotted
shaft or a customer un-willing to spend the money needed for a proper
repair
Cya
Jim Husted
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I and several other people picked up some flooded NiCd (BB600) cells to use
in our EV's. One problem is that they pressurize/bulge when charged, and
seem to require a rigid container.
One of the guys found this out:
Another *very* interesting thing I noticed today is if you leave the
caps open till they are done charging and cool down, then cap em, then
discharge you will find they have a very significant *vacuum* when you
have them fully discharged.
I think this is good; you cap them right after they are full charge,
then let them be. As you discharge water gets drawn into the plates,
creating the vacuum. Then when you charge, the water gets drawn out,
removing the vacuum but keeping them from bulging.
That seems to be the magic ticket. Cap them way after charge or when
empty and you trap extra air in them.
Anyone here know if this is good or bad for flooded NiCd cells?
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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John,
I used these for a few months on my EV conversion. I
finally got tired of adding water to 160 cells and
switched back to AGMs. These require rigid container
to prevent bulging. Bulging would lead to joint
failure between the top and the case. But, I don't
think you should squeeze them like the vacuum would.
This might lead to insulation failure between the
plates.
They bulge mainly from gassing not from water
generated during recharge. The valves on the caps
would only work if a higher pressure were present in
the cells. And, these valves are not design to hold a
vacuum.
These cells started to gas way before a full charge.
Ed Ang
--- "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I and several other people picked up some flooded
> NiCd (BB600) cells to use
> in our EV's. One problem is that they
> pressurize/bulge when charged, and
> seem to require a rigid container.
> One of the guys found this out:
>
> >Another *very* interesting thing I noticed today is
> if you leave the
> >caps open till they are done charging and cool
> down, then cap em, then
> >discharge you will find they have a very
> significant *vacuum* when you
> >have them fully discharged.
> >
> >I think this is good; you cap them right after they
> are full charge,
> >then let them be. As you discharge water gets drawn
> into the plates,
> >creating the vacuum. Then when you charge, the
> water gets drawn out,
> >removing the vacuum but keeping them from bulging.
> >
> >That seems to be the magic ticket. Cap them way
> after charge or when
> >empty and you trap extra air in them.
>
> Anyone here know if this is good or bad for flooded
> NiCd cells?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
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Thanks to all for the replies. I am interested in the material for future
use in an EV project. I **really** like the strength to weight ratio of the
Aluminium sandwich panels.
Does any one know of any decent books on building things with this material?
E.g. how to cut and bend it properly, how to glue it properly, how to trim
the edges, etc. I have many PDFs from manufacturers web sites (Hexcel,
procel, etc), but these are largely in the form of a datasheet or quick
notes. I am looking for a "how to" guide for the hobbyist (you know, nice
pictures and easy steps, big lettering and all...)
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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"These require rigid container to prevent bulging"
I think I have seen two different restraining methods.
1) Restrain the group of 20 cells together from the sides, bottom and even top.
2) In addition to 1 have plates of some kind between each cell so each cell
itself was individually restrained.
Number 2 may just be my imagination but I can see where if one cell bulged
first it could potentially cause issues. Is that the case or is only 1
required, I really hope the answer is only 1.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:John,
I used these for a few months on my EV conversion. I
finally got tired of adding water to 160 cells and
switched back to AGMs. These require rigid container
to prevent bulging. Bulging would lead to joint
failure between the top and the case. But, I don't
think you should squeeze them like the vacuum would.
This might lead to insulation failure between the
plates.
They bulge mainly from gassing not from water
generated during recharge. The valves on the caps
would only work if a higher pressure were present in
the cells. And, these valves are not design to hold a
vacuum.
These cells started to gas way before a full charge.
Ed Ang
--- "John G. Lussmyer" wrote:
> I and several other people picked up some flooded
> NiCd (BB600) cells to use
> in our EV's. One problem is that they
> pressurize/bulge when charged, and
> seem to require a rigid container.
> One of the guys found this out:
>
> >Another *very* interesting thing I noticed today is
> if you leave the
> >caps open till they are done charging and cool
> down, then cap em, then
> >discharge you will find they have a very
> significant *vacuum* when you
> >have them fully discharged.
> >
> >I think this is good; you cap them right after they
> are full charge,
> >then let them be. As you discharge water gets drawn
> into the plates,
> >creating the vacuum. Then when you charge, the
> water gets drawn out,
> >removing the vacuum but keeping them from bulging.
> >
> >That seems to be the magic ticket. Cap them way
> after charge or when
> >empty and you trap extra air in them.
>
> Anyone here know if this is good or bad for flooded
> NiCd cells?
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
>
__________________________________
Discover Yahoo!
Find restaurants, movies, travel and more fun for the weekend. Check it out!
http://discover.yahoo.com/weekend.html
--- End Message ---
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I've got the Marathon BB600's (might even be your old ones, Ed). So now I'm
confused. Do they get charged with the caps on or off?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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Lightning Ryan wrote:
>> So, I've been thinking about what might be a new idea for motor
>> design based on a merging of the E-Tek and IMA-ish BLDC motors.
jerry dycus wrote:
> I'm sitting on a dead E tek so I too was thinking
> of building a BLDC motor from it.
Hmmm... you can throw together almost anything and make it sorta work as
a motor (or generator). Getting it to work WELL... aye, there's the rub!
Almost all the motors you'll see are optimized to be CHEAP. Everything
else (size, weight, efficiency, performance) is compromised around
economics.
The Lemco is the rare example of a motor that wasn't designed to be
cheap -- instead, Cedric Lynch was trying to make it efficient. Now, he
is a very sharp designer. Many things in the design are different from
more conventional motors in the interest of efficiency.
If you change the design, you will worsen its performance (unless you
are a motor designer as talented as Cedric). And if you *are* as good as
Cedric, then you wouldn't start with an existing motor of the wrong
type; you'll start with a blank sheet of paper and come up with a NEW
design.
The design of a brushless motor is completely different than a brushed
motor. In a brushed motor, the coils, magnets, and iron pieces are
carefully shaped and positioned to suit the capabilities/limitations of
the commutator. A brushless motor's "commutator" (the transistors
driving it) has a completely different set of capabilities/limitations.
Therefore, the coils, magnets, and iron are all shaped differently.
--
The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
-- Harlan Ellison
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Changing the rear should have a noticible effect on reduced stopping
distance in a panic stop.
In a panic stop the front brakes handle up to 90 percent of the braking.
The body shifts, the rear
end lifts, and most the work is done up front. Your best bet would be to
find a way to beef up the
front. Larger diameter discs. Another simple, effective, but somewhat
pricey change would be to
use stainless braided brake lines in the front. They direct more of the
pedal pressure to the
piston for better braking.
Not true - the pressure at both ends of ( and anywhere along the length of )
the brake line is the same regardless of the material ( or stiffness) of the
brake line.
If you have a deteriorated brake line, you should replace it. But, you
would still have the same pressure at the caliper and the same stopping
force (for a given brake pedal force) as with a new, stainless braided line.
None of the pressure "leaks out" or is redirected somewhere else even if you
have a bulging line. The only possible loss of braking ability is if it a
line bulges so much that the pedal hits the floor (and a line will generally
fail completely well before that happens).
Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
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I'm replacing the Curtis control board with one
of mine and using the existing power components and
heatsink.
The Curtis schematic is here;
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/curtisschematic.pdf
Curtis detects saturation voltage and runs this
through
a comparator to shut off the MOSFET when current
exceeds its limit. The reference voltage for shut off
can be lowered by the thermal circuit.
In normal operation, does anybody know what the
reference voltage is on pin 3 of U7A?
What do they lower this voltage too when the control
gets too hot?
Thanks,
Rod
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>From what I have read caps off for the commisioning charge only. From 0.0
>volts after storage or complete discharge. Normal charging caps on.
Bill Dennis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:I've got the Marathon BB600's (might even
be your old ones, Ed). So now I'm
confused. Do they get charged with the caps on or off?
Thanks.
Bill Dennis
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--- Begin Message ---
Ok, but is there a problem with keeping the caps LOOSE so that pressure
doesn't build up?
Would that cause problems? Are the caps so tight just because these cells
were used in situations where they could get inverted for short times?
At 08:58 AM 6/23/2005, Edward Ang wrote:
They bulge mainly from gassing not from water
generated during recharge. The valves on the caps
would only work if a higher pressure were present in
the cells. And, these valves are not design to hold a
vacuum.
These cells started to gas way before a full charge.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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