EV Digest 4466
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Etek (tennant) 3/4" to 1" shaft adaptor?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Transaxle Weight?
by "Jon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Evercel high rate discharge
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Etek (tennant) 3/4" to 1" shaft adaptor?
by "David Chapman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) PCF-20 Design Flaw
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) REQUEST FOR PHOTOS
by "brian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: PCF-20 Design Flaw
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) RE: PCF-20 Design Flaw
by "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: List Meta Request
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Etek (tennant) 3/4" to 1" shaft adaptor?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
11) Re: REQUEST FOR PHOTOS
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: REQUEST FOR PHOTOS
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) RE: new batteries, low specific gravities
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: new batteries, low specific gravities
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Etek (tennant) 3/4" to 1" shaft adaptor?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: '05 Gasless on Greenwood...what fun! Album online.
by James Sullivan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: things that get on your nerves
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Owner repairs, was Re: things that get on your nerves
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Albright contactor
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: discontinued Siemens motors
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: PCF-20 Design Flaw
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: PCF-20 Design Flaw
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Owner repairs, was Re: things that get on your nerves
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: things that get on your nerves
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) long shaft of Siemens 5133 motor (was Re: discontinued...)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like the etek or my tennant etek I have isn't exactly a drop in
replacement on my craftsman tractor. I pulled the 15.5 hp motor off today and
got the dual pulley off of the engine.
The pulley setup goes onto the engine 1" shaft roughly 2 1/4" the shaft has a
key slot and also a hole for a 3/8" bolt. The pulley is held on the motor with
that 3/8" graded bolt and nothing else.
The motor I was thinking of using is a tennant version of the etek which has a
3/4" dia, 1-1/8" length keyed shaft since I already have it so it's sorta free.
If it's easier to use a true etek with the 7/8"x 1-3/4" I'd be sure to get it.
Where would someone go to get a simple adaptor or coller or ?? to attach the
pulley to my motor. I've tried looking online before but I really don't know
what the name is of what I'm looking for.
Thanks for any help!
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
5 spd tranny out of a '91-94 Nissan Sentra SER has a viscous limited slip
from the factory. That tranny was pretty light judging from hefting them a
few times.
Jon Davis
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Dymaxion" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 2:15 PM
Subject: Re: Transaxle Weight?
> For a race car, you'll want to be sure to get one with limited slip.
> Not many FWD trannies come with a LSD, but I know some Honda guys in
> my autocross club have added aftermarket LSD.
>
> --- Don Cameron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > I have been researching how I want to connect the motor to the
> > wheels for
> > this new sports car I am building.
> >
> > It must be independent suspension, lightweight and have a very
> > ratios
> > available for it (at least 4.3:1)
> >
> > Two options are a direct drive to a lightweight rear differential
> > or use a
> > lightweight transaxle.
> >
> > 1) For light differentials, there is the Mazda Miata and the R160
> > from
> > Datsun 510s and Subarus. These weight approx 50-70lbs.
> >
> > 2) As for a transaxle, I was thinking the Geo Metro.
> >
> > Does anyone know the actual weight of a Geo Metro transaxle?
> >
> > Any suggestions for other suitable lightweight transaxles out
> > there?
>
>
>
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I concur with Bob.
We have run high rate discharges on Evercells with disappointing results.
The car accelerated better on Hawkers. It went further on Evercells, but not
as fast.
15 second discharges are not going to heat the batteries significantly but
the sag is going to make the performance disappointing.
Check out some of the information on Evercells, Hawkers, Optimas, and
Orbitals at http://www.manzanitamicro.com/download.htm.
We have more information, but it is not in a form to be posted on the
website.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bob Bath" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: Re: Evercel high rate discharge
> Just in case nobody responds to this thread...
>
> Ummm, if you have the money for refridgerating the
> batteries, but don't have the money to do Hawkers,
> which will work better in the first place, I see
> diminishing returns for your efforts. I had a friend
> employ them in a BMW EV, and get unsatisfactory
> results with just normal discharge rates...
> (;-p
>
> --- john bart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > My friends and I are converting a 1980 VW Scirocco
> > into a drag racer at our school here in chicago,
> > IIT. We were fortunate enough to come across 24
> > evercel mb80-12 batteries which are the 64 amp/hour
> > models. Special thanks to Tom Hudson who was very
> > generous in donating these to our sae program. On
> > the voltage forum im being told these batteries will
> > not work for high current discharge because the
> > plastic plates will melt. I have known that
> > evercels are not meant for high current continous
> > discharge, but at 15 second high current discharges
> > during actual racing, will this still cause them to
> > heat up quickly enough and melt?
> > We were planning on a cooling unit of some sort for
> > these if that is what it would take for them to work
> > for our application. Its only a theory, if we
> > constructed the battery boxes our of aluminum and
> > sealed the boxes off and were able to refridgerate
> > the batteries with some sort of surplus
> > refridgeration unit, will this not help?
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Yahoo! Mail
> > Stay connected, organized, and protected. Take the
> > tour
> >
> >
>
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I would go for a whole new pulley that has the hub hole in the size you
need. If not maybe you could find a sleeve of some sort. Browning is a major
supplier of pulleys, adapters and taper lock stuff. Look for a local motion
control supplier in the nearest big town. Motion Industries has locations
all over the country, McMaster Carr is online, here in Phx we have a place
called "Bearing Belt and Chain" but I am not sure they have a web site.
Shouldn't be too hard. Good luck.
David Chapman
Arizona Electropulsion / Fine-Junque
http://stores.ebay.com/theworldoffinejunque
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 8:30 PM
Subject: Etek (tennant) 3/4" to 1" shaft adaptor?
> Looks like the etek or my tennant etek I have isn't exactly a drop in
replacement on my craftsman tractor. I pulled the 15.5 hp motor off today
and got the dual pulley off of the engine.
> The pulley setup goes onto the engine 1" shaft roughly 2 1/4" the shaft
has a key slot and also a hole for a 3/8" bolt. The pulley is held on the
motor with that 3/8" graded bolt and nothing else.
> The motor I was thinking of using is a tennant version of the etek which
has a 3/4" dia, 1-1/8" length keyed shaft since I already have it so it's
sorta free. If it's easier to use a true etek with the 7/8"x 1-3/4" I'd be
sure to get it.
> Where would someone go to get a simple adaptor or coller or ?? to attach
the pulley to my motor. I've tried looking online before but I really don't
know what the name is of what I'm looking for.
> Thanks for any help!
> Mark Hastings
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rich will likely disagree, but there is a subtle, but very serious design
flaw in the PFC-20 charger.
>> The problem <<<
The finish charge timer resets if the pack voltage drops.
>>> Why this is bad <<<
If your batteries go into thermal runaway at the end of the charge cycle,
during the timed constant voltage stage, the timer resets and the charger
keeps humping in amps forever. After a few hours of this, your battery pack
will be ruined. Since this is the part of the charge cycle where the most
heat is generated, this is the part of the cycle that the batteries are
most likely to go into thermal runaway and when the voltage will most
likely drop.
Rich doesn't see this as a problem, but it just happened to my $10,000
NiCad battery pack. I see it as a problem that should be corrected,
needless to say. My pack may not not totally ruined, but has lost about 25%
capacity. I will see how it behaves in the next few days. Maybe they will
perk up a bit, but that is unlikely. Perhaps it will die completely. We
shall see.
>>>>> The Fix <<<<<<
The "work around" patch for this inherent design flaw is to install a
timer in series with the input power cord. You set the timer for the
maximum hours that you think it will take to charge the pack. If the
charger doesn't shut down, the timer will limit the damage to your pack. I
just installed one of these. A bit late, but it may prevent further damage
to my expensive battery pack.
>>> What other chargers do <<<
The Zivan line of chargers does not have this design flaw. When the pack
voltage reaches the trigger point, (and stays at or above the trigger
voltage for 30 seconds or so) the finish charge timer locks in. No matter
what the voltage does after that point, the charger will shut off at the
end of the finish period you have programmed in. This is the correct way
for the finish timer to work.
There is also a timer for the total charge time. This timer is set so that
the charger cannot stay on longer than it would take to supply just over
100% of the capacity of the pack. A ten amp charger connected to a 100 a-hr
pack would have this timer set for 11 hrs, for example. This is what my new
in-line timer does.
>>> What I plan to do <<<
In the next week or so, (if my pack doesn't die completely,) I plan to
build a micro-processor control for my PFC-20. It will read the E-meter and
control the operation of the PFC-20 via the Reg-Bus port (or perhaps I may
go inside.) This will be a pain in the butt to do, but I don't see much
alternative.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Dear all,
I am hoping to help build a website for the UK "Campaign for Battery
Electric Vehicles". We have been in the UK media a few times now so we
really need a website.
I am trying to collect photos which I can use on the website, which are not
copyrighted.
If you have any that you would like to share with us it would be very much
appreciated.
You can either e-mail them to me at [EMAIL PROTECTED], or upload
them at http://www.photobox.co.uk you'll need to log in using the above
e-mail address and use 'photos' at the password. If you could write your
name (if you want to be acknowledged) and the source of your photo in the
description box below the photo that would be great.
Thanks in advance,
Brian McMillan
Campaign for Battery Electric Vehicles
www.cbev.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Bill
I have a Zivan NG3 which has failed to go thru its correct cycles at
least twice. Once when I lent it to a friend & once when I was charging
at another friend's house. I am not certain where in the cycle the fault
occurred but it was sucking full mains current at the time judging by
the hot extension lead. It filled the interior with sulphurous fumes
which attacked copper & silver leaving tarnished films.
Some AGM batteries got hot enough to distort. The cars still goes but
has reduced range.
It has never given trouble at home base. I don't have grid power here
but a 10kVA semi-square inverter. The charging current is less than for
grid power, taking about 10A from the inverter instead of about 12A-13A
for mains. Perhaps there is a reason here.
Timer for me too.
David
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, 30 June 2005 4:19 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: PCF-20 Design Flaw
Rich will likely disagree, but there is a subtle, but very serious
design
flaw in the PFC-20 charger.
>> The problem <<<
The finish charge timer resets if the pack voltage drops.
>>> Why this is bad <<<
If your batteries go into thermal runaway at the end of the
charge cycle,
during the timed constant voltage stage, the timer resets and the
charger
keeps humping in amps forever. After a few hours of this, your battery
pack
will be ruined. Since this is the part of the charge cycle where the
most
heat is generated, this is the part of the cycle that the batteries are
most likely to go into thermal runaway and when the voltage will most
likely drop.
Rich doesn't see this as a problem, but it just happened to my
$10,000
NiCad battery pack. I see it as a problem that should be corrected,
needless to say. My pack may not not totally ruined, but has lost about
25%
capacity. I will see how it behaves in the next few days. Maybe they
will
perk up a bit, but that is unlikely. Perhaps it will die completely. We
shall see.
>>>>> The Fix <<<<<<
The "work around" patch for this inherent design flaw is to
install a
timer in series with the input power cord. You set the timer for the
maximum hours that you think it will take to charge the pack. If the
charger doesn't shut down, the timer will limit the damage to your pack.
I
just installed one of these. A bit late, but it may prevent further
damage
to my expensive battery pack.
>>> What other chargers do <<<
The Zivan line of chargers does not have this design flaw. When
the pack
voltage reaches the trigger point, (and stays at or above the trigger
voltage for 30 seconds or so) the finish charge timer locks in. No
matter
what the voltage does after that point, the charger will shut off at the
end of the finish period you have programmed in. This is the correct way
for the finish timer to work.
There is also a timer for the total charge time. This timer is
set so that
the charger cannot stay on longer than it would take to supply just over
100% of the capacity of the pack. A ten amp charger connected to a 100
a-hr
pack would have this timer set for 11 hrs, for example. This is what my
new
in-line timer does.
>>> What I plan to do <<<
In the next week or so, (if my pack doesn't die completely,) I
plan to
build a micro-processor control for my PFC-20. It will read the E-meter
and
control the operation of the PFC-20 via the Reg-Bus port (or perhaps I
may
go inside.) This will be a pain in the butt to do, but I don't see much
alternative.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 02:13 AM 6/30/2005, you wrote:
Bill
I have a Zivan NG3 which has failed to go thru its correct cycles at
least twice.
I had the same thing happen with an NG-3. I think it overheated
and then went nuts. I think the high altitude here in Denver pushed it over
the edge for cooling.
The NG-5 seems to be much more robust. Flawless operation for years.
Bill Dube'
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I don't think people really understand the technical issue here.
I'm hearing people talk about the subject line, which really has little to
do with this problem.
To help illustrate the problem, take the following three hypothetical messages:
Subject: Batteries
Message-ID: <A>
Subject: Re: Batteries
Message-ID: <B>
References: <A>
Subject: Welding
Message-ID: <C>
References: <A>
Notice that message C has nothing to do with message A.
It is an entirely new topic covering a new idea.
The problem is that since you selected message A in your mail client, and
clicked reply, your client is going to add an erroneous References header.
It assumes you must be replying to the message you have selected, and why
not! You did click "Reply" :)
This whole problem can be easily fixed by just making new messages for
new topics, and clicking reply for replies.
I've noticed this problem for a while, but I assumed I must be one of the
very few people on this list who used threading :)
Thanks!
PS.
The correct behavior for the "References" header was defined in RFC822.
http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc822.html
On Wed, Jun 29, 2005 at 03:05:29PM -0700, Don Cameron wrote:
>
<.. snip ..>
> For example, all of the following subjects were started
> with the same thread:
>
> Re: Link10 RS232 - Siemens Noise?
> Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise still persists
> Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise FIXED
> Re: Link10 RS232 - Noise still persists (now, Electrocution)
>
> In Outlook, all of these show up as separate threads. Go figure, usually
> Microsoft lacks these fine features.
Outlook is not correctly interpreting the References header as defined by
RFC822 in 1982.
Oh well, the header is only 23 years old, perhaps they will get it in the
next version :)
<.. snip ..>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark,
Somehow one of the Eteks that I've got has a 1" shaft. I believe it did have
the tapped hole in the end, but the shaft has since been shortened. Has a step
in the shaft too, the pully will probably butt up against that. My brother saw
it from across the room (he's pretty familiary with B&S ICs) and said 'that's a
briggs and stratton crankshaft'!
I think this one came from NPC robotics?
Good luck.
Darin
-------------- Original message from Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
--------------
> Looks like the etek or my tennant etek I have isn't exactly a drop in
> replacement on my craftsman tractor. I pulled the 15.5 hp motor off today and
> got the dual pulley off of the engine.
> The pulley setup goes onto the engine 1" shaft roughly 2 1/4" the shaft has a
> key slot and also a hole for a 3/8" bolt. The pulley is held on the motor
> with
> that 3/8" graded bolt and nothing else.
> The motor I was thinking of using is a tennant version of the etek which has
> a
> 3/4" dia, 1-1/8" length keyed shaft since I already have it so it's sorta
> free.
> If it's easier to use a true etek with the 7/8"x 1-3/4" I'd be sure to get
> it.
> Where would someone go to get a simple adaptor or coller or ?? to attach the
> pulley to my motor. I've tried looking online before but I really don't know
> what the name is of what I'm looking for.
> Thanks for any help!
> Mark Hastings
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Friend, you need to go to the EV Album. People have
submitted all kinds of photos, and they're not
copyrighted.
--- brian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dear all,
>
> I am hoping to help build a website for the UK
> "Campaign for Battery
> Electric Vehicles". We have been in the UK media a
> few times now so we
> really need a website.
>
> I am trying to collect photos which I can use on the
> website, which are not
> copyrighted.
>
> If you have any that you would like to share with us
> it would be very much
> appreciated.
>
> You can either e-mail them to me at
> [EMAIL PROTECTED], or upload
> them at http://www.photobox.co.uk you'll need to log
> in using the above
> e-mail address and use 'photos' at the password. If
> you could write your
> name (if you want to be acknowledged) and the source
> of your photo in the
> description box below the photo that would be great.
>
> Thanks in advance,
> Brian McMillan
> Campaign for Battery Electric Vehicles
> www.cbev.org
>
>
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - Helps protect you from nasty viruses.
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<
Friend, you need to go to the EV Album. People have
submitted all kinds of photos, and they're not
copyrighted.
>>>
Yes, and in case you don't know the way, it's http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger, I've got about 2K on my batteries now, and my
SGs have yet to go over 1270. My refractometer does
all of the temp. compensation automatically. When I
wrote Nawaz, he acted like I was from another planet:
"You got 1270? Must be a mis-print!" So there
clearly is a piece of charging that I'm still not
quite understanding. Lynn Adams says he's gotten in
the 1290s-1300s with a new set...
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Hursch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Anyways, I was rather surprised at how low the
> specific
> > gravity readings were. Temperature (62-64 degF),
> the
> > readings ranged from 1226 to 1261 (the table
> should be posted
> > at
>
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/050626_hydrometer_readings.txt).
> > I usually run readings at 1270-1290, so I'm a
> little
> > surprised, especially given the way the pack
> otherwise was behaving.
>
> Are your 1226-1261 readings before or after
> temperature compensation is
> applied to them?
>
> The temperature compensated values should certainly
> be over 1275 if you
> are fully charging the batteries.
>
> > My usual runs are 10-20 miles, usually closer to
> 10. My
> > charging is done with a Zivan K2 120V charger, IUI
> with bulk
> > charge (the first I) at ~11A, the U is about
> 7.05V/6Vbattery,
> > and the last I is at 2A.
>
> 7.05V/6V battery is a quite low 2.35V/cell. For an
> algorithm with a
> timed constant current finish, such as you describe,
> you would normally
> charge to at least 2.4V/cell (and USBMC recommends
> 2.583V/cell for their
> particular chemistry).
>
> 2A is a reasonable finish rate (for newish, helathy
> batteries), and a
> reasonable criteria for terminating the constant
> voltage (U) phase,
> however, with such a low voltage the current may
> drop to this level
> before your battery is fully charged, and then the
> fixed duration finish
> phase may be unable to provide the amount of
> overcharge the battery
> needs. Your finish phase can only provide 6Ah of
> additional charge.
>
> > I've seen the batteries at 7.7V/6Vbattery during
> > this final I, and my nose is telling me that
> things are
> > gassing heavily.
>
> This is a good sign, as 7.7V/battery is 2.57V/cell,
> which is *almost* up
> to USBMC's recommended charge voltage. However, it
> isn't quite there
> and the batteries may not be remaining at or above
> this level long
> enough for the s.g. to come up fully.
>
> > Oh, also after the water fill, I decided to give
> the pack a
> > 2-hr equalization charge @ 8A on the variac. Get
> things
> > churning really good, and stinky at 8.15V/batt.
>
> Was the pack voltage still rising after 2hrs, or did
> you arbitrarily
> decide to terminate the equalise charge there?
>
> You probably don't need to use quite that high an
> equalise current, but
> if you allow it to continue until the pack voltage
> quits rising and then
> measure the s.g. after letting the pack rest perhaps
> 12-24hrs, you
> should certainly be seeing values nearer to the 1290
> mark.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
http://football.fantasysports.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Roger, I've got about 2K on my batteries now, and my
SGs have yet to go over 1270. My refractometer does
all of the temp. compensation automatically. When I
wrote Nawaz, he acted like I was from another planet:
"You got 1270? Must be a mis-print!" So there
clearly is a piece of charging that I'm still not
quite understanding. Lynn Adams says he's gotten in
the 1290s-1300s with a new set...
--- Roger Stockton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Chuck Hursch [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > Anyways, I was rather surprised at how low the
> specific
> > gravity readings were. Temperature (62-64 degF),
> the
> > readings ranged from 1226 to 1261 (the table
> should be posted
> > at
>
http://www.geocities.com/chursch/050626_hydrometer_readings.txt).
> > I usually run readings at 1270-1290, so I'm a
> little
> > surprised, especially given the way the pack
> otherwise was behaving.
>
> Are your 1226-1261 readings before or after
> temperature compensation is
> applied to them?
>
> The temperature compensated values should certainly
> be over 1275 if you
> are fully charging the batteries.
>
> > My usual runs are 10-20 miles, usually closer to
> 10. My
> > charging is done with a Zivan K2 120V charger, IUI
> with bulk
> > charge (the first I) at ~11A, the U is about
> 7.05V/6Vbattery,
> > and the last I is at 2A.
>
> 7.05V/6V battery is a quite low 2.35V/cell. For an
> algorithm with a
> timed constant current finish, such as you describe,
> you would normally
> charge to at least 2.4V/cell (and USBMC recommends
> 2.583V/cell for their
> particular chemistry).
>
> 2A is a reasonable finish rate (for newish, helathy
> batteries), and a
> reasonable criteria for terminating the constant
> voltage (U) phase,
> however, with such a low voltage the current may
> drop to this level
> before your battery is fully charged, and then the
> fixed duration finish
> phase may be unable to provide the amount of
> overcharge the battery
> needs. Your finish phase can only provide 6Ah of
> additional charge.
>
> > I've seen the batteries at 7.7V/6Vbattery during
> > this final I, and my nose is telling me that
> things are
> > gassing heavily.
>
> This is a good sign, as 7.7V/battery is 2.57V/cell,
> which is *almost* up
> to USBMC's recommended charge voltage. However, it
> isn't quite there
> and the batteries may not be remaining at or above
> this level long
> enough for the s.g. to come up fully.
>
> > Oh, also after the water fill, I decided to give
> the pack a
> > 2-hr equalization charge @ 8A on the variac. Get
> things
> > churning really good, and stinky at 8.15V/batt.
>
> Was the pack voltage still rising after 2hrs, or did
> you arbitrarily
> decide to terminate the equalise charge there?
>
> You probably don't need to use quite that high an
> equalise current, but
> if you allow it to continue until the pack voltage
> quits rising and then
> measure the s.g. after letting the pack rest perhaps
> 12-24hrs, you
> should certainly be seeing values nearer to the 1290
> mark.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Roger.
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Guess I'm late to convert. Checked with NPC and they said there was surplus
from a special order for those 1" floating around last year but since then
there are no more left. I'm going to try and look at mcmaster carr online and
see what I can find as I really can't get to any big cities or medium sized
cities from what I am located with my current transportation.
BadFishRacing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Mark,
Somehow one of the Eteks that I've got has a 1" shaft. I believe it did have
the tapped hole in the end, but the shaft has since been shortened. Has a step
in the shaft too, the pully will probably butt up against that. My brother saw
it from across the room (he's pretty familiary with B&S ICs) and said 'that's a
briggs and stratton crankshaft'!
I think this one came from NPC robotics?
Good luck.
Darin
-------------- Original message from Mark Hastings : --------------
> Looks like the etek or my tennant etek I have isn't exactly a drop in
> replacement on my craftsman tractor. I pulled the 15.5 hp motor off today and
> got the dual pulley off of the engine.
> The pulley setup goes onto the engine 1" shaft roughly 2 1/4" the shaft has a
> key slot and also a hole for a 3/8" bolt. The pulley is held on the motor
> with
> that 3/8" graded bolt and nothing else.
> The motor I was thinking of using is a tennant version of the etek which has
> a
> 3/4" dia, 1-1/8" length keyed shaft since I already have it so it's sorta
> free.
> If it's easier to use a true etek with the 7/8"x 1-3/4" I'd be sure to get
> it.
> Where would someone go to get a simple adaptor or coller or ?? to attach the
> pulley to my motor. I've tried looking online before but I really don't know
> what the name is of what I'm looking for.
> Thanks for any help!
> Mark Hastings
>
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Thanks for the pictures the Metro looks awesome and FT's vehicles are always
appreciated.
j.
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On Jun 29, 2005, at 2:31 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Not releasing any info is the only way they know to avoid
responsibility (not to prevent the activity) since any
trouble case now is based on "illegally obtained" documentation.
Not commonly done in the USA. The full service manuals are available
for my Toyotas, and most other cars and trucks. I have purchased the 3
books that make up the service manual for my 2002 Prius, using them I
could take any part of the vehicle apart (including the HV system.)
Paul "neon" G.
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Schematics are often available for most products. In the "old days," it
wasn't uncommon for the schematic to be found inside the owners manual.
My Commodore 64 Programmers Reference Guide (published by Commodore)
included a full schematic. Electronic test equipment comes with
schematics in the manual, but I suspect this is because the type of
person who buys an O-scope can probably also fix it.
These days, it's different. Otmar could publish his schematic, but
building one from that that *works* would be a considerable challenge:
He's pretty unlikely to release the software, and the actual physical
layout of the components is probably critical for proper operation.
Thing is that even without a schematic, people will try to repair it.
Just replace the charcoaled bits.
Reputation damage is not prevented by not releasing schematics, which
(in theory) prevents home repairs.
Reputation damage is prevented by making a quality product that doesn't
fail in the _first place_.
In any case, I've only heard good things about the Zillas, and if I ever
get around to by own EV project, I plan to purchase one =)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
<<< Will Rick Woodbury release documentation how to fix Tango?
I doubt. Will Otmar release schematics for Zilla so anyone
can fix (or have it fixed)? Somehow I doubt too and it is not
only because of the risk of lost revenue. After such repairs
by non-experts and inevitable failures, the reputation of the
product and creator is damaged. Auto maufacturers are in the
same boat. They don't mind to release info, but only to those
whom they approve and train like service stations staff, which
is reasonable. Whether this staff becomes greedy feeling monopoly,
is another issue but still not the basis to release the info to
anyone who ask. >>>
Gawd, I *hope* no-one tries repairing a 2000 amp Zilla themselves, at least not
any amateur who hasn't "filled up a coffee can of dead mosfets" for himself!
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--- Begin Message ---
On Jun 29, 2005, at 3:14 PM, Rush wrote:
Has the contactor been harmed in any way?
Not likely, I've hooked one up backwards too
What is the value of the diode?
The diode is a 1N5404. Its a 3 amp 400 volt standard recovery diode.
Are these contactors good for 180V?
Not rated for that voltage, but they have been used at higher voltages.
Paul "neon" G.
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Charles Whalen wrote:
Victor (and all),
...
But my application
is quite different. I am designing a long-range (220+ miles) highway
cruiser, so my preference is to optimize more towards higher speed highway
driving.
IF you also want very zippy performance, you're better off
staying with at least 2 speed transmission.
This means you wouldn't want to use MES gear box. Single gear
is OK for up to about 60-70 km/h common in Europe.
I can use single (2nd) gear only in ACRX, but find using first
in some situations is preferred(see faq on my site).
There is no need to limit the motor to 5600 RPM, but using it
at 9000 RPM and only first gear is not a good idea either, because
of very high losses in the gear box - it will get real hot (aside
the flywheel problem which are solvable with small aluminum one).
I am planning to write MES in Switzerland and/or Carraro (not sure where
they're located)
Comex/Carraro boxes are made in Italy for MES-DEA. they deal with
OEMs only; there is no direct contact I know of. You're certainly
welcome to try.
to ask if there are other gear options with different
ratios that they can put into that Carraro single-gear reduction gearbox
that mates to the MES motor.
The options are listed on my site, also see downloadable PDF docs.
Don't forget, to some degree you can vary overall ratio by selecting
a tire size.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
I had the same thing happen with an NG-3. I think it overheated
and then went nuts. I think the high altitude here in Denver pushed it
over the edge for cooling.
The NG-5 seems to be much more robust. Flawless operation for
years.
Bill Dube'
So is BRUSA NLG5xx...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Flaw???
Just to clear up some points in this reply, there will be others.
Dip Sw #2 is time out from start of charge. EXACTY What you should have used
as a solid timed charge.
It's there and has been there since the Beta charger days.
PFC chargers are talored for Lead Acid AGM. We don't advertise a hands of
Nickel based charge algorythm.
Since Ni based chemistry basicly WILL go into thermal run a way. If your end
voltage is set too high.
Your Flaw is a needed feature on MOST of my clents PbLa demands.
You were warned...
You said "it works perfect, no problems"... When I asked how it was going.
We never got into deatails.
I took this as you knew about Nicad thermal run away, and had it covered.
Clearly you didn't
You assumed that we had a latch on the voltage enabled timer channel.
You never asked.
You can bet there will be a switch to cover this new feature on the next
controller PCB turn.
I would be glad to upgrade your controller PCB when this new rev comes on
line.
All your efforts can be solved with turning down your voltage peak setting
by about 5 volts. And being extra carfull when you park the pack Hot.
I assumed you knew this about Ni Cads I do and So does Joe. It was a matter
of asking.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, June 29, 2005 11:18 PM
Subject: PCF-20 Design Flaw
> Rich will likely disagree, but there is a subtle, but very serious design
> flaw in the PFC-20 charger.
>
> >> The problem <<<
> The finish charge timer resets if the pack voltage drops.
>
> >>> Why this is bad <<<
> If your batteries go into thermal runaway at the end of the charge cycle,
> during the timed constant voltage stage, the timer resets and the charger
> keeps humping in amps forever. After a few hours of this, your battery
pack
> will be ruined. Since this is the part of the charge cycle where the most
> heat is generated, this is the part of the cycle that the batteries are
> most likely to go into thermal runaway and when the voltage will most
> likely drop.
>
> Rich doesn't see this as a problem, but it just happened to my $10,000
> NiCad battery pack. I see it as a problem that should be corrected,
> needless to say. My pack may not not totally ruined, but has lost about
25%
> capacity. I will see how it behaves in the next few days. Maybe they will
> perk up a bit, but that is unlikely. Perhaps it will die completely. We
> shall see.
>
> >>>>> The Fix <<<<<<
> The "work around" patch for this inherent design flaw is to install a
> timer in series with the input power cord. You set the timer for the
> maximum hours that you think it will take to charge the pack. If the
> charger doesn't shut down, the timer will limit the damage to your pack. I
> just installed one of these. A bit late, but it may prevent further damage
> to my expensive battery pack.
>
> >>> What other chargers do <<<
> The Zivan line of chargers does not have this design flaw. When the pack
> voltage reaches the trigger point, (and stays at or above the trigger
> voltage for 30 seconds or so) the finish charge timer locks in. No matter
> what the voltage does after that point, the charger will shut off at the
> end of the finish period you have programmed in. This is the correct way
> for the finish timer to work.
>
> There is also a timer for the total charge time. This timer is set so that
> the charger cannot stay on longer than it would take to supply just over
> 100% of the capacity of the pack. A ten amp charger connected to a 100
a-hr
> pack would have this timer set for 11 hrs, for example. This is what my
new
> in-line timer does.
>
> >>> What I plan to do <<<
>
> In the next week or so, (if my pack doesn't die completely,) I plan to
> build a micro-processor control for my PFC-20. It will read the E-meter
and
> control the operation of the PFC-20 via the Reg-Bus port (or perhaps I may
> go inside.) This will be a pain in the butt to do, but I don't see much
> alternative.
>
>
> Bill Dube'
>
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Eric Poulsen wrote:
Schematics are often available for most products. In the "old days," it
wasn't uncommon for the schematic to be found inside the owners manual.
I always appreciated that so I could see how the thing works.
But I'm in minority and these days it's a waste of paper.
People throw away good TVs vecause of damaged power cord.
These days, it's different. Otmar could publish his schematic, but
building one from that that *works* would be a considerable challenge:
Tell this to those Chinese who will produce Zilla clone in a heart bit.
Thing is that even without a schematic, people will try to repair it.
Just replace the charcoaled bits.
Not having any documnetation discourages such attempts and takes
responsibility for the consequences off the manufacturer.
Reputation damage is not prevented by not releasing schematics, which
(in theory) prevents home repairs.
You're pnly speaking from the consumer point of view.
Try to manufacture something for sale for others and your
opinion will change quickly.
Reputation damage is prevented by making a quality product that doesn't
fail in the _first place_.
Sure, I never debated this. Note the battery manufacturers often
insist to use *their* chargers, or the warranty is off.
If they weren't people will *officially* use all kind of chargers,
batteries will fail more often and the reputation of this manufacturer
of "unreliable" batteries will suffer accordingly.
Look at SAFT. They won't even sell you the batteries unless approve
your charger, and for good reason. (that will not prevent you from using
bad boy after purchase, but this is not the point).
In any case, I've only heard good things about the Zillas, and if I ever
get around to by own EV project, I plan to purchase one =)
Did I say Zillas are bad controllers? From what I hear, they are one of
the best ones out there.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Paul G. wrote:
Not commonly done in the USA. The full service manuals are available for
my Toyotas, and most other cars and trucks. I have purchased the 3 books
that make up the service manual for my 2002 Prius, using them I could
take any part of the vehicle apart (including the HV system.)
Paul "neon" G.
Try to purchase the source code for Prius ECU. You'r just as entitled
to it as to the service manual, don't you?
My point was, manufacturer can encourage or discourage doing something
to *their* product (even if it is *your* car now) by releasing
some info but not other info - for good reasons you and I may or may
not like. Never releasing safety bag activation controller info
is a good thing for people in my opinion - no one will (hopefully)
tinker with it.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Victor (and all),
...
>
These discussions included things like possibly machining an
additional bearing to support the 5133's long shaft as well as programming
the Simovert to limit the 5133's RPM to a maximum of 5600 (which is my
existing redline on the tach) so as to keep the tranny within its original
design specs and try to avoid the unfortunate fate that has befallen others
where a heavy flywheel spinning at 7-9000 RPM ends up bending that long
shaft.
Did I mention the shaft converter available for 5133 motors? :
http://www.metricmind.com/shaft.htm
If you use it, there is no issue you're worried about.
Extra support for the shaft isn't necessary unless
you plan for 50 lb flywheel...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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