EV Digest 4472
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Using old UPS as a battery charger
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Vas: Re: discontinued Siemens motors
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: letting the smoke out, DCP
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Bolt patterns used to our advantage. Low rolling tires.
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) large motor
by "Ellery Deuville" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Garden Tractor Conversion - Craftsman?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) High voltage/Low Current Relay
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
8) Different types of AC drive systems
by Chris Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: High voltage/Low Current Relay
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: JeepEV Drivetrain (was: Re: Oozing Motor?)
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) adapting MES motor (was: discontinued Siemens motors)
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) PFC + Regulators
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: letting the smoke out, DCP PCC's and fun stuff.
by "Bob Rice" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) More Progress Check out my Blog
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: High voltage/Low Current Relay
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Garage Sale find
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Garage Sale find
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: acceleration problem/help still needed
by "john" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Garage Sale find
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: acceleration problem/help still needed
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Electrothon bubble
by keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: PFC + Regulators
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Electrothon bubble
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) RE: Transaxle Weight?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: PFC + Regulators
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) White Zombie Emergency Shut-down Device
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) RE: White Zombie Emergency Shut-down Device
by "Ed Koffeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Transaxle Weight?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) RE: Transaxle Weight?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Check eBay. Some of the larger units are 48V. (Best Power FerrUPS
comes to mind.)
Tim
On Jun 29, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: "Brown, Jay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: June 29, 2005 10:52:43 AM PDT
To: <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Using old UPS as a battery charger
Damn, there is always a downside...
Thanks again for the reply.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
Jay Brown
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just some counterpoints from a Tzero fan:
The original Tzero is getting around 15,000 miles a year put on it,
and has over 75,000 miles.
A 4th Tzero is being built.
I don't think it was totally optimized for speed. Single gear and top
speed of only 90 mph hurts the 1/4 mile time, and probably hurts the
0-60 too. A 2 speed tranny would definitely make it faster.
For top speed, a convertible is not the best choice.
A true drag and 0-60 racer would put skinny drag wheels on front, and
wide drag tires on back. A land speed racer would not go with a
convertible, or would at least have an aero hard top, and more gears.
An autocrosser would lower the gearing a bit, for a top speed of
maybe 70 or 75 mph. A track racer would have a higher top speed and
more gears.
Why do you think their gearbox is inefficient, or the bearings have a
short lifetime? To get the 0-60 and 1/4 times they do on just 600
Amps means the package must be pretty efficient, compared to racers
that have run the same voltage and 2 or 3 times the amps and run
similar times.
It could be he primarily designed the car for efficiency, and speed
second. Unlike gas cars, you can often move in the range or
efficiency plus speed directions at the same time:
Bigger batteries = faster and more range
Bigger motor can be more efficient and faster
Light weight helps range and acceleration
AC is a bit more efficient, and puts more area under the curve
for better acceleration
Higher voltage is a bit more efficient and faster
Better aero improves range and top speed
Of course, enjoying the high performance can quickly wipe out the
gains from higher efficiency!
--- Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tzero is no a car, not to mention not for every day commuting.
> It is a money-no-object demo project where *everything* is
> compromised just for the sake of acceleration, including the gear
> box efficiency, bearings lifetime, etc. Their special motor does
> 12.5k RPM if I remember. It has to have ~400V battery to do it
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--- Begin Message ---
Curious about this...
For the record, all DC controllers have the ability to
fail in a full-on mode. That's why we are supposed to
be building them with fuses and circuit breakers; the
latter accessible from the cabin of the vehicle.
Brian D. Hall
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Good points here certainly. Just wondering, however if the ignition key
controlling the main contactor doesn't do more or less the same as a cutoff
switch to stop the motor?
Fusing is certainly a must in any case.
Mark Ward
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philip Marino wrote:
> What low rolling resistance tires are available in 14"? I'm looking
> for LRR tires for my Echo (stock size 175/65-14).
Coincidentally, this is the tire size used on the ill-fated GM EV1.
Maybe there is a way to find some of them?
According to Jim Knowles (a tire engineer at Michelin) these were a
special version of the Michelin XGT-4 with a 0.005 rolling resistance.
The OEM version XGT-4 (product code #04116 for Toyota Corolla, or #17420
for Hyundai Elantra) had a 0.006 rolling resistance, and the consumer
replacement version sold in tire stores was 0.007.
> As far as wheel weight, are aluminum wheels really much lighter
> than the OEM steel wheels? I always thought it was more of a style
> thing.
Yes; it is almost all about style. You have to actually weigh the stock
steel wheels, and compare them to the aluminum wheels you are interested
in. Any consumer-grade aluminum wheel will be *heavier* than stock.
To get a wheel that really *is* lighter, you need to get a true racing
wheel.
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys, have sent an e-Mail to Jim about this but thought it may be of
interest to others.
More info Jim, took the drive motor out of the forklift today , Quite a
motor! I was surprised to find that there are several wires coming out of
the motor, these are marked A1and A2 which are large and connected via a bar
to the center of the motor (amature), then there is a S1 ( one wire), S2 (2
wires), S3 (3 wires), S4 (2 wires), S5 (2 wires), S6 (2 wires). I am
assuming that these are field winding wires, There is no connection (by
connection I mean ohm meter shows continuity)
between A wires and the field wires, there is connection between S1,S2,S3
and S4.
S5 and S6 being isolated from the rest of the field wires but S5 and S6 are
connected . If I am thinking correctly I have access to all field windings
which I believe is a good thing, Can you give me any guidance as to how to
connect voltages to the amature and field windings to test for RPM and
current draw. Is there a way to connect the fields to increase or decrease
rpm?
Here are the specs from the motor tag
HP----9.62
ARM AMPS----290
RPM---580
Volts---36
Wound----4spd WDG
FLD Ohms-----25
Insul---Class F
Duty 1hr 115 C
Max ambient 40 c
Class 1 group D and class 11 group C
Operating temp code ----T4A P/N SA136GE-26
Type---- BT1368
Encl----TEFC
INSTR----GE143714A
Mod----5BT1368B9
Ser -----F58-1787-GS
Hope the pictures are O-kay
Thanks
Ellery
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The power needed for mowing also varies a lot. Mine uses about 1/2hp for
an 18" blade mowing medium grass (that just means my lawn after growing
a week). A bigger blade, or thicker or wetter grass will need more.
Mine has 3 18" , and I'll need the power for thick , wet grass.
A friend and I converted his old 8hp Wheel Horse tractor using a 1.5hp
electric motor for motive power, and a 3/4hp motor for the blades. It
worked just fine. The two motors actually drew 100-150 amps total at 24v
these numbers make me think I have a chance.
which is more like 3hp. But the batteries only lasted 30-45 minutes at
this current, so the motors didn't have time to overheat.
I'm not looking for that long a run time , about half , . but I'd like it to
have at least as much power as I have how , 20 hp gas.
steve clunn
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
Looking for a relay to switch 15A at 48V.
A) High dollar kilovac or something or more current rating than I need
B) 12V rated DPST automotive relay and use both poles in series
C) 12V rated relay and replace more frequently
Any ideas?
Thanks
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Are there different types of AC motor control, like standard AC and
Vector control AC, or are they one and the same?
If there is a difference, then are the Siemens motor/controllers vector
control? Do the Solectras use vector controllers?
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There is a 10 A, 120VDC rated relay ( w/mag blowout) by Magnecraft (
A283HXX69C-12D) available (there's also a similar Tyco part : KUEP series)
that you can get from Mouser for about $11.
It might work fine at 15 amps. I seem to rememeber someone saying they used
it at about 15 amps successfully for a PTC heater control.
Since you're using it at lower voltage than its voltage rating, it might
break 15A OK.
Phil
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (BadFishRacing)
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: High voltage/Low Current Relay
Date: Sat, 02 Jul 2005 12:35:49 +0000
Hi all,
Looking for a relay to switch 15A at 48V.
A) High dollar kilovac or something or more current rating than I need
B) 12V rated DPST automotive relay and use both poles in series
C) 12V rated relay and replace more frequently
Any ideas?
Thanks
Darin Gilbert
BadFishRacing
_________________________________________________________________
Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE!
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hey Nick, I just looked over pic's and all appears to be going along nicely. I
see that you brush ring is advanced and your Comm looks awesome and has a nice
patina. It does not appear to have any grooving and should not need a turning.
Also the Black ooze is from a bad scorched bearing and the spinning of the
armature just threw up some burnt grease in between the fan and plate. Nothing
unusual here, except a bad bearing. Also there is nothing special about the
shafts and they will rust. I have also seen rust on bearings, but the dark
brown color on the aluminum journal is probably more like a burnt grease stain
as I have seen these many times. I see bearings contaminated with crap and
water all the time and is the main reason I use sealed bearings. Sorry but I
found this post most hummorous as if it had taken me more that 10 minutes to
remove that plate I would have been ticked off. I am glad you were able to
remove the plate without any breakage. I would like to!
caution
everyone when posting with help that there are steps to follow when using
brute force to solve issues. When I heard hit it hard like it was your dog
(just kidding here) I was in fear for Nick's motor parts. One issue was the
fan which would have broke if driven into the fields. Here is another trick
for getting a stuck bearing off. If you can't get pullers to just pull it off.
Reasseble the drive end plate and armature into the motor. Remove the
C.E.plate. Pick the motor up and drop the D.E. shaft (if it sticks out passed
the plate) onto a piece of board set on the ground. The weight of the motor
will pop the bearing loose. You must not drop it so hard that it will kick the
fan into the field coils though and is the reason I didn't post this way as you
can break it if you apply to much drop force. This is a good quick way to at
least pop the bearing loose so that you can use the pullers to finish. I guess
I error to the side of caution when posting here as I woul!
d hate to
be the one who did not meet the needs of someone who has never done a certain
job before. I'm so glad that all is well in the land of Ooze
Cya
Jim Husted
Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi,
After spending most of the afternoon today struggling with my motor, I
finally got the drive end bearing off the shaft!
What finally worked was a combination of ratcheting down the jaw puller
till very tight and beating the crap out of it with a 4lb sledge hammer.
I tried using the jaw puller approach in many different ways, but it
wasn't until I was able to set the motor up in a make-shift cradle and
use the puller and my newly-acquired sledge hammer together that I got
it out.
It took about four hard blows then the bearing made a loud pop and came
about 1/2 way off the journal. Then I was able to use the jaw puller to
get it the rest of the way off.
I'm very glad I'm changing this bearing because it looked _terrible_ on
the underside. Not only are globs of thick black ooze coming out all
around the seal, but there are globs of this black ooze splattered all
around on the surfaces between the end bell and the fan. Very odd.
Even weirder, the journal where the bearing was pressed on has some
reddish-brown marks around it. They look exactly like rust marks to me,
but I didn't think the bearing or shaft could rust? Unfortunately, these
marks don't show up in the photos (I'll try taking more tomorrow).
Photos are here (look at the very bottom for the new ones):
http://www.driveev.com/jeepev/photos/pgallery4_3.php
Tomorrow I plan to install the new bearings, assemble the motor, and put
my Jeep back together. Hopefully the drive end bearing will go on easier...
Thanks for all the help so far!,
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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--- Begin Message ---
About that internal spline, thanks, that is what I have been looking
for. What size spline is it?
Have you looked into a bert transmission? it contains a clutch from an
automatic inside that is actuated by a slave piston you hook your clutch
master cylinder to.
exploded view
http://store1.yimg.com/I/randys-racemart_1847_5305185
they're (noisy) website
http://www.berttransmission.com/
there is a low quality video of it's assembly and dissasembly
Last one on ebay went for $661 (4558018632)
I was playing around with the idea of building a gearbox for EV's. Sort
of a 2 speed with reverse version of the bert. Maybe victor can answer
this: What kind of gear ratios would people be interested in? Assuming
a Final Drives of 3.58 to 4.11 to 1 are avail.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Will the Rundman Regulators prevent thermal runaway on AGM's in those
unlikely instances where it could occur?
I am worried about this because I live in Fresno Ca, It is not uncommon
for the interior of a car to hit 160 degrees while parked in the summer.
I was surprised to hear all this talk about design flaw, a few points.
A design flaw is when an error in the design causes unexpected or
prevents proper operation.
It does not include features that were left out by design.
I think the PFC line of charges have performed as designed. With
that said, the regulators add features.
And just to violate the last mantra of email list ediquette(according to
???) I would like to say something about the meta-list discussion also.
KISS ---Keep it simply simple. I use digest mode. And I prefer it,
It keeps the EV list items together, it allows me to forward it to my
web mail or download it to my phone so I can read it when I am not at my
primary PC. Hitting reply would send the entire digest to the list, so
that is out. Every email I send to the list is a fresh one. Replying
seperatly to multiple "threads" is a pain, but I often do that because
people complained when I combined more than one,like this, into my
mini-digest (ok 1 person out of 1000 complained off list, but he won't
see this anyway cause it is not in his thread :-) )
OH, and the last point, I AM a computer person.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: letting the smoke out, DCP
> Curious about this...
>
> > For the record, all DC controllers have the ability to
> > fail in a full-on mode. That's why we are supposed to
> > be building them with fuses and circuit breakers; the
> > latter accessible from the cabin of the vehicle.
> > Brian D. Hall
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> Good points here certainly. Just wondering, however if the ignition key
> controlling the main contactor doesn't do more or less the same as a
cutoff
> switch to stop the motor?
>
> Fusing is certainly a must in any case.
> You Bet! A "Lineswitch" as it's called on a trolley or subway car. They
HAVE to be able to let go as needed. If you're in SF CA at the Market street
trolley lines a wonderful rolling museum of trolley rolling stock of the
last 100 years(Thanks SF Muni!) Many of the cars are restored PCC cars
designed in the 30's but timeless style they don't LOOK like it. Of course
they use state of the art controls of the 30's, resistance starts, BIG line
switch and that "Splock" or POP we trolley fans know and love so
well<g>!They run elegently in todaze stop an' go traffic. If you see one
take off at a light and has to slow down quickly, that lineswitch "barks"
robustly, dropping a hellova lot of amps going to 4 55hp traction motors,
under load. One for each axle.
Of other EV delights are the Trackless trolleys sharing the overhead
with the tracked trolleys, how these guyz zip up those SF hills like
nothin'! SF is SOOOO far ahead of most US cities in transit.Electric therepy
for the masses! Go take a ride!Oh yeah, they have cute electric cable cars,
too. That's what keeps the string (cable)going ,BIG motors at the power
house.
Sorry , getting carried of in clouds of EV contentment, but back to the
point, ya need a good scrammer or lineswitch, to shut the works down, in the
EVent of a Full On failure!!A neat direct brother of the Knife switch J
Wayland uses in the Zombie to kill things in a contacter weld-on. John didya
MAKE that, or can you buy one?It fits so unobtrusively in the car, but of
COURSE, ya wouldn't have done it any other way! And we KNOW it works<g>!I'd
rather share the cabin with a monentary mini volcano, rather than pop for a
rebuilt motor if it runs away, I know Zombie has no clutch, so that's IT in
the shutdown dept. I have been depending on an old Hartman-Boyle 200 amp
contacter, as a charging contacter on the DCP. When I key off, it opens,
although I have been thinking of ANOTHER one in the battery circuit, just in
case, they are cheaper than motors!Natural instinct in a runaway is to key
off in gas rigs, same for EV's? But not TOO far or you can't steer!
Embarassing in traffic<g>!
Seeya at Woodburn
Bob
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The weather has cooled down and I am making progress again! New photos on
my Web Log.
Mark Ward
"Electrosaab"
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
BadFishRacing wrote:
Hi all,
Looking for a relay to switch 15A at 48V.
How about using a golf cart contactor? They can do that well; if the
source signal is only 12 volts you could use a 12 volt relay to switch
the 48 volts to trigger the contactor.
B) 12V rated DPST automotive relay and use both poles in series
Bad; the arc will weld it shut soon.
C) 12V rated relay and replace more frequently
See above; bad.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speak of the devil...
We were just discussing growlers the other day, and today I picked one up
ata yard sale for $5. Maybe it is a sign! I used to use one years ago for
rebuilding starter motors and generators. Hmmm...
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Funny how stuff works like that huh. I have so much EV things around me now
since joining here it smokes my mind (most of which is not connected here).
It's like some cosmic connection. My 2 boys have found that the continuity
test leads will give you a nice low amp shock and they have been enjoying my
growler in a real sick sort of way. They haven't played with it much after I
told them to go wet their hands and then try it, which they did. The little
red botton light lit right up, resolting in dropped growler leads, lmao. We in
fact may use it for my haunted house this year attached to a warning do not
touch prop, which of course will be, lol. By the way a good growler can cost
over 600.00 so a 5.00 find is way cool. If you take like 5 to 10 hacksaw
blades taped together you can use the growler to heat your bearing a little for
an easier press. Basicaly makes it an induction bearing heater. Just throw
the hacksaws through the bearing and bridge the gap between the!
V.
Keep us posted as to what fun yours will discover.
Cya
Jim Husted
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Speak of the devil...
We were just discussing growlers the other day, and today I picked one up
ata yard sale for $5. Maybe it is a sign! I used to use one years ago for
rebuilding starter motors and generators. Hmmm...
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I check everything everyone suggested and all test good. The only other
thing I think it could be is the controller. I have a Kodac searies, Auburn
Scientific C600 controller. Anyone know who could check out this controller
or repair it. Someone suggested Otmar!??
Thanks for any guideance.
John Barnes ,Tucson.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Speaking of bearings, I had to replace the front one on my Edsel's
generator, which was a press fit. I wound up putting the bearing on the
burner of the stove, and the armature in the freezer over night. Talk about
having some fun putting parts together!
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Husted" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: Garage Sale find
Funny how stuff works like that huh. I have so much EV things around me
now since joining here it smokes my mind (most of which is not connected
here). It's like some cosmic connection. My 2 boys have found that the
continuity test leads will give you a nice low amp shock and they have
been enjoying my growler in a real sick sort of way. They haven't played
with it much after I told them to go wet their hands and then try it,
which they did. The little red botton light lit right up, resolting in
dropped growler leads, lmao. We in fact may use it for my haunted house
this year attached to a warning do not touch prop, which of course will
be, lol. By the way a good growler can cost over 600.00 so a 5.00 find is
way cool. If you take like 5 to 10 hacksaw blades taped together you can
use the growler to heat your bearing a little for an easier press.
Basicaly makes it an induction bearing heater. Just throw the hacksaws
through the bearing and bridge the gap between the!
V.
Keep us posted as to what fun yours will discover.
Cya
Jim Husted
Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Speak of the devil...
We were just discussing growlers the other day, and today I picked one up
ata yard sale for $5. Maybe it is a sign! I used to use one years ago for
rebuilding starter motors and generators. Hmmm...
David C Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
"The Bush administration's priorities are "a little bit different now
and veterans aren't a priority,"
---------------------------------
Yahoo! Sports
Rekindle the Rivalries. Sign up for Fantasy Football
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 10:19 AM -0700 7/2/05, john wrote:
I check everything everyone suggested and all test good. The only other
thing I think it could be is the controller. I have a Kodac searies, Auburn
Scientific C600 controller. Anyone know who could check out this controller
or repair it. Someone suggested Otmar!??
Thanks for any guideance.
John Barnes ,Tucson.
I don't work on the Auburn controllers, but last I heard Dave Luiz in
Sebastopol, CA works on them. My latest contact for him is:
(anti spam distortion follows) davidluiz (Uppercase #2) pacbell dot net
If anyone needs a Auburn C600 manual, I just scanned one. Email me
offlist for a copy. (600K)
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
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--- Begin Message ---
this is an old post but i am getting ready to build a
canope/bubble and plan on making an oven like this...
if anyone knows where the information about this
experiment is i would appreciate it as it would
shorten my learning curve. I did some blow molding
and drape forming in college but that has been long
ago anyone with experiance feel free to give advice
thanks
keith
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I looked into this. One group made a pair of
> aluminum plates with an
> air fitting in the middle of the top one and an oval
> hole with bolts
> every inch around it.
> This was placed, with the oval hole down over 4
> walls made from
> fireplace panels and set on bricks in the corners.
> A double burner propane camp stove was placed in the
> middle with a piece
> of solid metel pipe thru a hole in the panels to a
> propane tank.
> A 1" steel plate was placed over both burners and it
> was fired up.
> A peephole with glass had been put in one side with
> a line on the
> opposite wall.
> When the material began to sag, the operator opened
> an air valve and
> inflated down to the line.
> They turned off the burner and kept hitting the air
> valve to keep it
> inflated as the air cooled and shrank.
>
> The material used was vivex, a PTEG . That is 2
> liter bottle material,
> it is opticaly clear and can be purchased in 4x8
> sheets in .093 or .125
> thicknesses.
>
> Sorry, I couldn't find the link, The guys sell them.
>
>
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----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeff Shanab" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2005 7:43 AM
Subject: PFC + Regulators
> Will the Rundman Regulators prevent thermal runaway on AGM's in those
> unlikely instances where it could occur?
> I am worried about this because I live in Fresno Ca, It is not uncommon
> for the interior of a car to hit 160 degrees while parked in the summer.
>
> I was surprised to hear all this talk about design flaw, a few points.
>
> A design flaw is when an error in the design causes unexpected or
> prevents proper operation.
> It does not include features that were left out by design.
> I think the PFC line of charges have performed as designed. With
> that said, the regulators add features.
>
Thanks Jeff...
That's a point I am glad somebody on the list noticed.
Since I wanted to act that way... it's not a Flaw. I can clearly latch the
timer on with a Reg input. Dip 4 off and 3 on. and I have a ZERO time out
latch on Dip #7. It's rather clear if I wanted the timer to latch up on a
simple voltage peak event, I would have done so.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro.
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http://www.wisil.recumbents.com/wisil/bubbles/hpvbubbles.htm
every thing you need to know is on this hpv site
have fun
reb
keith vansickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
this is an old post but i am getting ready to build a
canope/bubble and plan on making an oven like this...
if anyone knows where the information about this
experiment is i would appreciate it as it would
shorten my learning curve. I did some blow molding
and drape forming in college but that has been long
ago anyone with experiance feel free to give advice
thanks
keith
--- Jeff Shanab wrote:
> I looked into this. One group made a pair of
> aluminum plates with an
> air fitting in the middle of the top one and an oval
> hole with bolts
> every inch around it.
> This was placed, with the oval hole down over 4
> walls made from
> fireplace panels and set on bricks in the corners.
> A double burner propane camp stove was placed in the
> middle with a piece
> of solid metel pipe thru a hole in the panels to a
> propane tank.
> A 1" steel plate was placed over both burners and it
> was fired up.
> A peephole with glass had been put in one side with
> a line on the
> opposite wall.
> When the material began to sag, the operator opened
> an air valve and
> inflated down to the line.
> They turned off the burner and kept hitting the air
> valve to keep it
> inflated as the air cooled and shrank.
>
> The material used was vivex, a PTEG . That is 2
> liter bottle material,
> it is opticaly clear and can be purchased in 4x8
> sheets in .093 or .125
> thicknesses.
>
> Sorry, I couldn't find the link, The guys sell them.
>
>
__________________________________________________
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Here are some weights for those who may be interested (no clutch or
driveshafts)
88 Civic Transaxle 68lbs
92 Civic open ratio 73lbs
95 Civic close ratio 75lbs
90 Miata Rear End 58lbs
99 Miata Rear End 70lbs
and the winner
R160 rear end (Subaru and Datsun 510) 45lbs
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: June 29, 2005 10:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Transaxle Weight?
I have been researching how I want to connect the motor to the wheels for
this new sports car I am building.
It must be independent suspension, lightweight and have a very ratios
available for it (at least 4.3:1)
Two options are a direct drive to a lightweight rear differential or use a
lightweight transaxle.
1) For light differentials, there is the Mazda Miata and the R160 from
Datsun 510s and Subarus. These weight approx 50-70lbs.
2) As for a transaxle, I was thinking the Geo Metro.
Does anyone know the actual weight of a Geo Metro transaxle?
Any suggestions for other suitable lightweight transaxles out there?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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Jeff Shanab wrote:
> Will the Rudman Regulators prevent thermal runaway on AGM's in those
> unlikely instances where it could occur?
They might, but only as an unintended side effect. They aren't designed
to detect or correct thermal runaway.
Thermal runaway occurs when you apply too high a charging voltage at too
high a current. The battery has nowhere to get rid of this excess
energy, so it heats up. The hotter it gets, the more current it draws,
and the hotter it gets. If the process continues long enough, the
battery is destroyed. This is "thermal runaway".
You can prevent it many ways:
- The charger can be built so it can't deliver enough voltage
(for example, a float voltage charger).
- The charger can apply a higher voltage, but have a battery
temperature sensor to automatically reduce the voltage as
temperature rises.
- The charger can limit the current when the battery approaches
"full" to such a low value that thermal runaway is impossible
(though you can still get thermal walkaway -- same thing, but
takes days instead of hours).
- The charger can use a dv/dt or di/dt algorithm, which senses
the fall in voltage at a fixed current (negative dv/dt), or a
rise in current at a fixed voltage (positive di/dt). If either
of these happen, it shuts down to prevent thermal runaway.
- There can be a timer to shut off the charger before thermal
runaway could progress enough to be of any concern.
- You can include regulators to limit the peak charging voltage
and optionally command the charger to a lower current (this is
what a Rudman regulator does).
Whether thermal runaway occurs or not is a complicated function of
battery state of charge, charging voltage, charging current,
temperature, and type and condition of the battery. So, it is difficult
for any scheme to work in 100% of all cases.
> A design flaw is when an error in the design causes unexpected
> [behavior] or prevents proper operation. It does not include
> features that were left out by design.
I agree. A "flaw" is when it fails to do something that it was
explicitly designed to do (or the reverse, i.e. it does something it is
explicitly not supposed to do).
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Hello to All,
Bob Rice wrote:
> -Ya need a good scrammer or lineswitch, to shut the works down, in the
> EVent of a Full On failure!! A neat direct brother of the Knife switch J
> Wayland uses in the Zombie to kill things in a contacter weld-on. John didya
> MAKE that, or can you buy one?It fits so unobtrusively in the car, but of
> COURSE, ya wouldn't have done it any other way! And we KNOW it works<g>!I'd
> rather share the cabin with a monentary mini volcano, rather than pop for a
> rebuilt motor if it runs away, I know Zombie has no clutch, so that's IT in
> the shutdown dept.
Bob and others interested, the panic mode 'kill-the-power' device used inside
White
Zombie, was given to me by Lee Hart. It's actually an insulated white package
with two
mating halves. One is stationary and is mounted to either a wall (as it was
intended for
use in a dam) or in my case, the tranny tunnel atop a custom stainless steel
perch, and
the other half is the pull-out section with a molded-in handle to grasp. The
mounted side has four recessed female knife switch receivers, two on each end
of the
circuit in parallel for current handling. The handle has the four male flat
copper pins,
two at each end and paralleled. Each pair of male pins terminate at a stud at
each end,
where a BIG fuse is supposed to be mounted. The device then, is supposed to be
a pull-out
fuse holder, where the fuse is jerked away from the base as it stays inside the
handle
section. I use it with the fuse removed and replaced with a BIG flat copper bar
mounted to
the studs instead. When I pull it away, it's the same as opening a BIG knife
switch.
I first put this thing in the car a half hour before going off to race for the
night, as I
had welded another contactor the previous race weekend. The high voltage, high
current
conductors that went to and from the device were inside the car, an oversight
on my part,
but nonetheless, a violation of NEDRA safety rules. I got together with Marko
Mongillo at
the metal fab shop where we reworked the design. The current stainless steel
pedestal
mount better positions the disconnect so that pulling it doesn't cause one's
hand to bang
into the underside of the dash panel (ouch), and, it now keeps the high
voltage, high
current conductors outside the passenger compartment to make it safe and in
compliance
with NEDRA regulations.
The above described device has proven to be very effective. I used it the night
I drag
raced against that 300+ hp Mustang, beating him to the finish line, only to
have my car
continue to pull and pull with my foot off the accelerator! When I jerked the
disconnect,
the resultant arc lit up the car inside, causing the 'stang driver to later ask
me, "Hey,
what's up with you taking pictures inside your car at 100+ mph?
See Ya.....John Wayland
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> the resultant arc lit up the car inside, causing the 'stang driver to
> later ask me, "Hey,
> what's up with you taking pictures inside your car at 100+ mph?
Some people just don't understand what a photo finish is all about.
Ed Koffeman
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-----
Don,
Many thanks for your data.
88 Civic Transaxle 68lbs > Including TRANSMISSION???<<<<<
Good to know.
BoyntonStu
Subject: RE: Transaxle Weight?
Here are some weights for those who may be interested (no clutch or
driveshafts)
92 Civic open ratio 73lbs
95 Civic close ratio 75lbs
90 Miata Rear End 58lbs
99 Miata Rear End 70lbs
and the winner
R160 rear end (Subaru and Datsun 510) 45lbs
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: June 29, 2005 10:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Transaxle Weight?
I have been researching how I want to connect the motor to the wheels for
this new sports car I am building.
It must be independent suspension, lightweight and have a very ratios
available for it (at least 4.3:1)
Two options are a direct drive to a lightweight rear differential or use a
lightweight transaxle.
1) For light differentials, there is the Mazda Miata and the R160 from
Datsun 510s and Subarus. These weight approx 50-70lbs.
2) As for a transaxle, I was thinking the Geo Metro.
Does anyone know the actual weight of a Geo Metro transaxle?
Any suggestions for other suitable lightweight transaxles out there?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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Yep, when I say transaxle, I mean transmission and differential. Little
typo there it was actually an 89 Civic that weighs 68lbs.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu or Jan
Sent: July 2, 2005 4:36 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Transaxle Weight?
-----
Don,
Many thanks for your data.
88 Civic Transaxle 68lbs > Including TRANSMISSION???<<<<<
Good to know.
BoyntonStu
Subject: RE: Transaxle Weight?
Here are some weights for those who may be interested (no clutch or
driveshafts)
92 Civic open ratio 73lbs
95 Civic close ratio 75lbs
90 Miata Rear End 58lbs
99 Miata Rear End 70lbs
and the winner
R160 rear end (Subaru and Datsun 510) 45lbs
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: June 29, 2005 10:13 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Transaxle Weight?
I have been researching how I want to connect the motor to the wheels for
this new sports car I am building.
It must be independent suspension, lightweight and have a very ratios
available for it (at least 4.3:1)
Two options are a direct drive to a lightweight rear differential or use a
lightweight transaxle.
1) For light differentials, there is the Mazda Miata and the R160 from
Datsun 510s and Subarus. These weight approx 50-70lbs.
2) As for a transaxle, I was thinking the Geo Metro.
Does anyone know the actual weight of a Geo Metro transaxle?
Any suggestions for other suitable lightweight transaxles out there?
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
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