EV Digest 4530
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: More questions E-meter serial port
by "Andre' Blanchard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Deka dominator gel batteries
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Hybridizing a motorcycle engine/drivetrain.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Electric Vehicle Help( CA registration)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Deka dominator gel batteries
by "Don Cameron \(New Beetle EV\)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) No longer with Cloud EV
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Quit scaring me - battery killing
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: EV Vehicle choice
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Hybridizing a motorcycle engine/drivetrain.
by Edward Ang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) A differnt kind of Emeter question
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: EV Vehicle choice
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
13) Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
14) Re: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: A differnt kind of Emeter question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: And you thought diamonds are only a girls best friend
by "Cory R. Cross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Bradly kit car
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Hello and quit scaring me.
by Tim Clevenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Electric Vehicle Help
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: A differnt kind of Emeter question
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
>Range is all about pounds of batteries. To get an X-mile range will require
Y pounds of lead-acid batteries. It doesn't >matter what the pack voltage
is, and it doesn't matter what type of battery you use (flooded, sealed AGM,
etc.).
Lee;
But wouldn't the weight of the vehicle affect range?
Would a 2500# truck use the same watthours per mile as a 3500# truck?
That's what I'm struggling with. As you add more batteries you also add
more weight that those batteries have to push
down the road.
Is there any way to determine an optinal ratio of weight added to
benefit received?
>Say you want a 20-mile range to be 50% discharge. The truck will use about
300 watthours per mile if driven >
>conservatively. 20 miles x 300wh/mile = 6000 watthours.
>Lead-acid batteries deliver about 12 watthours per pound. 6000wh / 12wh/# =
500 pounds. If we want that 20-mile drive to
>use only 50% of your charger, then you need 1000 pounds of batteries.
Optimas or floodeds; it doesn't matter for range.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 08:52 AM 7/26/2005, you wrote:
<< snip >>
Do I need to send anything to it to get it started, or does it just output
data constantly?
Thanks again.
Answers received.
1. Just outputs constantly
2. Just dumps out data, no need to Tx anything to the meter.
3. It sends constantly. It ignores any data received, so there is no point
to even hooking up the receive data wire.
Sounds like some females I know.;)
__________
Andre' B. Clear Lake, Wi.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
312*250=78kw!! How much does your pack weigh??
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: RE: Deka dominator gel batteries
> So far so good. I have been using them for about 4 months of daily
driving.
> I can get 312V (nominal) and 250Amps without an issue. Since my
controller
> can only take 283Amps, getting much more is a waste of battery.
>
> These batteries have been used very successfully in Solectria cars.
>
> The reason I choose them?
> - **very** long life, if shallow discharges
> - tend to go out of balance less than other technologies
> - inexpensive initial cost
> - little maintenance required
> - I did not need or want AGM/Flooded acceleration
> - excellent history with Solectria cars (7 years plus!)
>
>
> If you are a "conservative" driver, then consider Deka gels.
>
> You may also want to ask on the Solectria Force yahoo group list about
their
> experiences.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of David
> Sent: July 25, 2005 3:54 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Deka dominator gel batteries
>
> Has anyone had good luck with Deka dominator gel batteries in ev's?
>
> They claim that the battery will recharge to full capacity even if left
> discharged for months.
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was offered a 1982 Kawasaki GPZ 550 air-cooled in running condition. (Bad
front)
What to do with it?
Methinks a 2F1R hybrid but how?
My first thought was to use it as is and a motor FWD up front.
Second thoughts: break the engine transmission off from the wheel.
Use a jackshaft to connect the motor and the engine.
Can think of using a A/C compressor off the jackshaft as well.
Advantages: Placing the engine on one side of the wheel and the motor on the
other we gain compactness.
Also the weight of both is OK over the rear wheel with a lot of battery
weight up front not too shabby.
One transmission, rear wheel freewheels with respect to engine.
Has anyone been there and done it?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
George S. wrote:
Here is the California code
"NOTE: California law prohibits importing and/or registering a new
vehicle (one with less than 7,500 miles at the time of purchase) unless
it meets or is exempt from California emission standards.
Well, the fact is, out of state EV *does* meet California emission
standard. The question is what kind of legal proof California accepts.
If the law says "...unless it meets...", they must have this criteria
written down somewhere. No matter how strict it is, ZEV vehicle is going
to comply; it's just who is qualified for CA DMV to certify that.
Any state DEQ office should be.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
26 batteries at 19.3 kg (43 lbs) = 502kg (1104lbs)
not too unusual...
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
Quoting David <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> 312*250=78kw!! How much does your pack weigh??
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 9:17 PM
> Subject: RE: Deka dominator gel batteries
>
>
> > So far so good. I have been using them for about 4 months of daily
> driving.
> > I can get 312V (nominal) and 250Amps without an issue. Since my
> controller
> > can only take 283Amps, getting much more is a waste of battery.
> >
> > These batteries have been used very successfully in Solectria cars.
> >
> > The reason I choose them?
> > - **very** long life, if shallow discharges
> > - tend to go out of balance less than other technologies
> > - inexpensive initial cost
> > - little maintenance required
> > - I did not need or want AGM/Flooded acceleration
> > - excellent history with Solectria cars (7 years plus!)
> >
> >
> > If you are a "conservative" driver, then consider Deka gels.
> >
> > You may also want to ask on the Solectria Force yahoo group list about
> their
> > experiences.
> >
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Victoria, BC, Canada
> >
> > See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> > www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of David
> > Sent: July 25, 2005 3:54 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: Deka dominator gel batteries
> >
> > Has anyone had good luck with Deka dominator gel batteries in ev's?
> >
> > They claim that the battery will recharge to full capacity even if left
> > discharged for months.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
-------------------------------------------------
This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just to let you EVDL folks know.
As I have mentioned on the SEVA and OEVA lists, I am now taking on EV
repairs, modifications, and conversions at my place in Olympia. Anything
from skateboards to tractors. :^D
.
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
If you expect to drive your EV in winter, put the batteries in an
insulated box, and provide a heater.
If you expect to drive in a winter and can afford and take proper
care of it, consider NiCd battery. The colder - the better it works
(to the point of course).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Have a 15K limit for everything but maybe could go a little higher. Are you
talking about 20k just for batteries?
Randy
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:19 AM
Subject: Re: EV Vehicle choice
> > Hi Don and Jerry,
> > Well dont want to but I will probably have to go with this van for the
vending
> because of the way its been set up. I need to quickly get inside the cargo
area
> for drinks and snacks while standing up inside the van (thats where the hi
top
> is a lifesaver. On the other hand if a large shell could really be
purchased
> for an S-10 pickup maybe it would work but it would have to tall as well
as
> wide enough to acomodate the operator, snack and- drink bins. Where can
shells
> like that be found? Would like to check into it. My 4 day a week route
goes
> about 60 miles, 50 miles 40 miles and 45 miles including the trip to and
from
> home. Half of that is interstate driving. I try to stay at 50 mph to save
gas -
> it increases 3 mpg from 70 mph. Plan to charge the van for 8 hours from
a
> 120VAC 15A outlet while working at my full time job. Will try and get the
> weight again. The bathroom scale got smashed.
> > Randy
>
> You're looking at a pretty large pack to get 40-60mi, even if only 20-30mi
of
> that is at a rather slow 50mph - a NiCd pack at 300V/100Ah (and >$20K)
might be
> enough, though! How much do you plan on spending?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Looks like a perfect candidate for a Sparrow range
extender. If you are in the SF Bay Area, I will buy
it from you.
Ed Ang
--- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was offered a 1982 Kawasaki GPZ 550 air-cooled in
> running condition. (Bad
> front)
> What to do with it?
> Methinks a 2F1R hybrid but how?
> My first thought was to use it as is and a motor FWD
> up front.
> Second thoughts: break the engine transmission off
> from the wheel.
> Use a jackshaft to connect the motor and the engine.
> Can think of using a A/C compressor off the
> jackshaft as well.
>
> Advantages: Placing the engine on one side of the
> wheel and the motor on the
> other we gain compactness.
> Also the weight of both is OK over the rear wheel
> with a lot of battery
> weight up front not too shabby.
> One transmission, rear wheel freewheels with respect
> to engine.
>
> Has anyone been there and done it?
>
> BoyntonStu
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I was gonna buy a special meter for my solar so I could track the output
from my panels and it strikes me that an emeter might be a good option.
I don't know anthing abut the emeter and won't be chargeing and
dischargeing a battery and no peukert effect so...
Will it work as a handy data collection device that I can connect to a
computer? or does it need to be "reset" and go from empty to full in cycles
Do I just set peukert at 1.00 ?
Also the voltage swing of the solar is rather large, from 0 to 600V
with the inverter only kicking in after a minimum voltage is obtained.
I could imagin these scenarios
1 voltage is high enought to power emeter but not the sunnyboy, so
current would be zero. emeter should handle this, it happens at each
stoplight
2 voltage drops to zero as sun sets, what happens to emeter? for that
matter, when I install in car, does it always need power?
volitale/non-volitile memory?
3 voltage during operation goes from 208V to 600V
The reason for the 2 emeters is I am considering putting a second set of
panels up facing east (the others face west) and using an emeter on each
set and a pair of isolation diodes, connect them to same inverter. I
want to compare the power in the first half of the day to the second. I
have more roof on the east surface and I can't believe the claims that
the west is that much better, especially with the reduction in
efficiency when they get hot. Plus I could share an inverter, which
means I can increase my system on the DC side without all those utility
grade contractors. :-)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
<<<
Have a 15K limit for everything but maybe could go a little higher. Are you
talking about 20k just for batteries?
Randy
>>>
Yes, that's just the pack, but it's NiCd's, which last several times as long -
the same capacity in lead will be 1/2 the cost while being well over a ton of
battery pack, which might overload your van's GVWR, even if it's fairly high.
Might be nice to make it a hybrid, but if it was that easy, everything in the
UPS fleet would already be there! Maybe if you could cut down the Cd on your
van (can't cut the square footage due to utility needs) and do whatever
possible to decrease rolling resistance, you might cut the size of the pack,
but getting 40-60mi range will take a lot of thought, and $6K or $8K for the
motor/adapter, controller, and charger may be the least of your worries!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I assume this is a stupid question, but I'll go ahead and ask anyway.
Since it takes some rocket scientist type like Omar to build a switching or
transistor-based motor controller (apparently trying to make one yourself is
not for the faint of heart), and it also takes big bucks, it got me to
thinking.
Is it possible to use vacuum tubes to build a motor controller? If so, why
isn't it being done? Is it just as difficult if not more? Is it a matter of
parts availability? Or is it a matter of efficiency or reliability? Or is it
that I am asking a stupid question, because this is neither desirable nor
possible?
Thanks.
Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is not a stupid question, actually very good one.
It can be done technically but impractical - controller will be
very large physically and you will have a big challenge (to say at
least) to provide adequate cooling for the tubes.
Not to mention that reliability of the filaments in a vibration prone
environment is going to be quite low.
FWIW, for tube based RF amplifiers in radio stations they saray DI
water directly onto hi voltage components to cool them off (as an
insulator, DI water does nop cause any electrical problems).
Wonder how would you do it in an EV...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I assume this is a stupid question, but I'll go ahead and ask anyway.
Since it takes some rocket scientist type like Omar to build a switching or
transistor-based motor controller (apparently trying to make one yourself is
not for the faint of heart), and it also takes big bucks, it got me to thinking.
Is it possible to use vacuum tubes to build a motor controller? If so, why
isn't it being done? Is it just as difficult if not more? Is it a matter of
parts availability? Or is it a matter of efficiency or reliability? Or is it
that I am asking a stupid question, because this is neither desirable nor
possible?
Thanks.
Sam
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Will it work as a handy data collection device that I can
> connect to a computer?
Yes.
> or does it need to be "reset" and go from empty to
> full in cycles Do I just set peukert at 1.00 ?
No. Don't worry about Peukert since that is only used by the E-meter to
affect the fuel guage display. The data output is not affected by it.
If you are going to be tracking current in the discharge direction as
well as charge, and want to simply use the E-Meter's Ah value, then
ensure that your charge efficiency factor (CEF) is set to 0.99 (the
meter will not allow you to set a value of 1.0, which is what you want).
The CEF is used to discount charge Ahs so that some percentage more than
were removed must be returned before the meter resets to 0Ah/full.
> Also the voltage swing of the solar is rather large, from 0 to 600V
This may be a problem. The E-Meter has a 'native' capability of 0-40V,
and can be configured for either a 100V or 500V prescaler. The meter
doesn't want to see more than 50V on its voltage sense input. To handle
a 600V input range you would have to build your own prescaler (e.g.
1000V, then set the meter to assume either a 100 or 500V prescaler and
multiply the reported voltages appropriately).
> I could imagin these scenarios
> 1 voltage is high enought to power emeter but not the sunnyboy, so
> current would be zero. emeter should handle this, it happens at each
> stoplight
> 2 voltage drops to zero as sun sets, what happens to
> emeter? for that
> matter, when I install in car, does it always need power?
> volitale/non-volitile memory?
The E-meter has a supply input which is separate from the sense input.
The supply and sense grounds are common. When the meter loses power it
will not lose configuration settings, but it will lose its memory of Ah,
etc. To avoid this, you could simply power the E-meter with a little
200mA (or better) 9-24VDC wall wart (make sure it is isolated since its
negative output will be tied to the negative side of the panel/battery
being monitored).
> 3 voltage during operation goes from 208V to 600V
See above about the voltage sense prescaler issue. If you are only
interested in the range from 208V-600V, perhaps you can get by with a
500V prescaler and a 200V zener to shift the panel voltage before it
gets to the prescaler?
You might want to check out Xantrex's other meter offerings, as they do
offer units (Link20) which have the capability of monitoring 2
packs/batteries (usually with a common ground). It doesn't appear that
this flavour of meter supports the PC data connection, but depending on
your needs it might be acceptable to have a single meter monitor the Ah
supplied by each panel and then manually record the values yourself
daily/weekly/etc.
An interesting option for anyone considering an E-Meter/Link-10 might be
the Xantrex "XBM" ("Xantrex Battery Monitor"?). It appears to be an
updated E-Meter (LCD, rather than LED) with much lower power consumption
([EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED], both without the backlight on). PC
data connection
is supported (Xantrex offers an isolated communications adapter and
Windows software application that allows both data logging and remote
configuration of the meter). The XBM claims only a 35V input range (vs
the E-Meter's 50V), but supports x5 and x10 prescalers (equivalent to
the E-Meter's 100V and 500V prescalers). Unlike the E-Meter's simple
passive (optional) temperature sensor, the XBM appears to use a serial
sensor (still optional) since the comms manual shows the optional temp
sensor connecting via the isolated comms adapter (appears the comms
adapter plugs into the temp sensor port of the meter, so the sensor then
plugs into a port on the adapter).
<http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/10/type.asp>
HTH,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I believe I may have smoked my Raptor 600...
On a fairly routine trip the other day I found myself on a large hill that I
normally avoid. Given that I was only out for a short 5 mile drive, I didn't
think much of going full throttle up the hill (I was only thinking about
battery time, and had completely forgotten about Jim's story of frying on of
his controllers under similar circumstances).
So, long story short, about 5 minutes AFTER the hill incident, the little red
overtemp led came on, and I came stuttering to a halt. Having never
experienced this before, I let it set about 5 minutes, turned the key back on,
and drove home. Incident forgotten.
Today (3 days later or so), I hopped in the truck and headed to work. I was
almost there (12 miles one way)... cruising along at about 35mph, and the red
overtemp led came back on. Thinking it was odd (since my trip to work, while
long, is pretty flat), I pulled over and let it sit a few. Turned the key back
on, barely pressed on the accelerator, red led on again. Basically I found I
could put along if I kept the draw (motor amps) under 175 or so. After sitting
all day long at work, nothing had changed when I got back in to drive home, so
I towed it home with my gasser.
I would imagine there are those of you who have already been through this, so I
thought I would throw my situation out for advice.
Is this most likely a fried controller? Are there any user serviceable parts
inside? Anybody still working on DCP's, or should I be looking for a
replacement?
Thanks in advance for you help!
Glenn
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
Heat sinks can be made smaller if the total junction-to-sink impedance
is lower. Note the surge capabilities, which involve how much thermal
mass is on the junction and case side of the system, will be far
higher.
It all depends on how much of the total thermal resistance comes from
the insulator, and how much from the heatsink itself. In my designs, the
insulator's thermal resistance is already trivial with common, everyday
materials.
For example, you generally don't want a touchable heatsink to be over
140 deg.F = 60 deg.C. You don't want your semiconductor junction to be
over 100 deg.C for reasonable life. That allows for a 40 deg.C
difference between junction and heatsink.
Suppose you're mounting a TO-247 transistor. It has a thermal resistance
of 0.7 deg.C/watt from junction to case. But even an old greased mica
insulator has a thermal resistance of 0.3 deg.C/watt. Suppose we used
it; then the total resistance is 0.7+0.3 = 1 deg.C/watt. For a 40 deg.C
temperature difference, that transistor can dissipate P = 40 deg.C / 1
deg.C/w = 40 watts.
Suppose we had a magic perfect insulator with zero thermal resistance.
The power we could dissipate in the transistor only increases to P = 40
deg.C / 0.7 deg.C/w = 57 watts.
Now, there are probably designers that would kill for those extra 17
watts. But most applications won't be willing to pay for diamonds to
make a small improvement.
But won't changing the substrate decrease the junction-to-case resistance?
I guess if most of the heat is generated in the area immediately
surrounding the metal in a MOSFET, it wouldn't help that case, but IGBTs
may benefit
Cory Cross
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just saw this on my local garage sale mailer. Anyone interested?
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is offering a 70 vw running gear 71 bradley fiber glass
body, no engine, $700 or
o.b. needs work, no smog........... email for pictures
With enough patience,
you can milk a porcupine
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
J.R. Young wrote:
I was almost there (12 miles one way)... cruising along at about
35mph, and the red overtemp led came back on. Thinking it was odd
(since my trip to work, while long, is pretty flat), I pulled over
and let it sit a few. Turned the key back on, barely pressed on the
accelerator, red led on again. Basically I found I could put along
if I kept the draw (motor amps) under 175 or so.
Does the controller actually feel hot when the red overtemp LED is
coming on? If the controller is in fact _not_ hot when the overtemp LED
is flickering/coming on, then you could have a bad connection between
the control and power boards in the controller. These circuit boards are
connected by a 6-pin and a 4-pin connector. The connectors are made up
of two female sockets on the control board that slide onto pins which
protrude off the side of the power board.
Some pictures to help clarify my less-than-perfect description are here:
http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/ , specifically see:
http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/connector_pins.jpg
http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/connector_sockets.jpg
Hope that helps...
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Sam,
All the lathes in our lab machine shop were controlled by vacuum tubes.
This was way back then. Big, heavy, inefficient, and hot.
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 7:42 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
I assume this is a stupid question, but I'll go ahead and ask anyway.
Since it takes some rocket scientist type like Omar to build a switching or
transistor-based motor controller (apparently trying to make one yourself is
not for the faint of heart), and it also takes big bucks, it got me to
thinking.
Is it possible to use vacuum tubes to build a motor controller? If so, why
isn't it being done? Is it just as difficult if not more? Is it a matter
of
parts availability? Or is it a matter of efficiency or reliability? Or is
it
that I am asking a stupid question, because this is neither desirable nor
possible?
Thanks.
Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I didn't think the controller felt particularly hot, at least no hotter than
anything else here today (temps hovering around 100).
I'm going to check it out tonight, and see if it "overheats" once it has
definitely cooled off. If it does, then it sounds like checking these
connections is as good a place as any to start! It would be nice if I had
just knocked something loose rather than letting some of the smoke out.
Thank you for the help.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
> Hi,
>
> J.R. Young wrote:
> > I was almost there (12 miles one way)... cruising along at about
> > 35mph, and the red overtemp led came back on. Thinking it was odd
> > (since my trip to work, while long, is pretty flat), I pulled over
> > and let it sit a few. Turned the key back on, barely pressed on the
> > accelerator, red led on again. Basically I found I could put along
> > if I kept the draw (motor amps) under 175 or so.
>
> Does the controller actually feel hot when the red overtemp LED is
> coming on? If the controller is in fact _not_ hot when the overtemp LED
> is flickering/coming on, then you could have a bad connection between
> the control and power boards in the controller. These circuit boards are
> connected by a 6-pin and a 4-pin connector. The connectors are made up
> of two female sockets on the control board that slide onto pins which
> protrude off the side of the power board.
>
> Some pictures to help clarify my less-than-perfect description are here:
> http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/ , specifically see:
> http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/connector_pins.jpg
> http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/connector_sockets.jpg
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
There was one man that built a electric car back in 1931 that used a controller
with vacuum tubes. They use a Pierce-Arrow Car with a clutch and transmission
with a Westinghouse 80 HP AC electric motor that ran at 1800 RPM.
12 vacuum tubes No. 78L7-GT Rectifier beam power tubes were use with a diode
that act like a TRIAC. That charge and discharge a bank of capacitors depending
on the demand of the motor.
I research the No. 78L7-GT Rectifier beam power tubes for a source of supply,
and YES , there are some left in stock from the 1930's from some electronic
tube suppliers.
I took the configuration of the tube construction and specifications and
downloaded it to my Electronic Simulator which is by MultiSim. Inputting a
tuned high frequency into this circuit, it was suggested it would run cooler at
a higher frequency than a lower frequency.
The Simulator does show a multiplier of energy (normally voltage) amplified in
the 12 stages of these tubes.
This man name is Nikola Tesla and his electrician assistance who name is George
Westinghouse who founded the Westinghouse Co.
A friend of mind, Ansen P. Howard who was a Geophysics scientist who would be
117 years old if he was alive today, work with Dr. Nikola Tesla during that
time. Later I work with Ansen P. Howard on developing equipment which is know
as the science of Magnetic Air Detection by reading the dielectric fields of
earth compounds either in the earth or above the earth using a tuned radio
frequency that range from 50 MHz to 0 or DC.
To see more on this control system, which many people will not understand it or
believed it work, type in your search engine:
Nikola Tesla Car #1
or Nikola Tesla Electric Car
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 5:42 PM
Subject: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
I assume this is a stupid question, but I'll go ahead and ask anyway.
Since it takes some rocket scientist type like Omar to build a switching or
transistor-based motor controller (apparently trying to make one yourself is
not for the faint of heart), and it also takes big bucks, it got me to
thinking.
Is it possible to use vacuum tubes to build a motor controller? If so, why
isn't it being done? Is it just as difficult if not more? Is it a matter of
parts availability? Or is it a matter of efficiency or reliability? Or is
it
that I am asking a stupid question, because this is neither desirable nor
possible?
Thanks.
Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I took a little ride (75 degrees under the hood, truck idle for about
5 hours now). As soon as I turned the key on and barely pressed the
accelerator to back up... red led came on. I decided to run it until it
"cut out". After I backed up about 20 feet... red led went off. I went
back and forth in the drive way trying to get it back on, to no avail. I
took it out on the road, drove it pretty normal and did a couple of moderate
accelerations and had full power and could not get the red LED to come back
on.
What is strange about the whole thing is that when the red LED comes on it
will eventually "cut out" completely. It will also seem to be very weak
(wont let the battery amps go over 60 or so before cutting out completely).
It really seems like something is going out, but tonight, it seemed just
fine again (with the exception of the red LED coming on initially when I
started to back up).
I'm going to pull it apart tomorrow and check the connections. Hopefully
something is loose.
Is there anything else that could be causing this behavior?
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
> Hi,
>
> J.R. Young wrote:
> > I was almost there (12 miles one way)... cruising along at about
> > 35mph, and the red overtemp led came back on. Thinking it was odd
> > (since my trip to work, while long, is pretty flat), I pulled over
> > and let it sit a few. Turned the key back on, barely pressed on the
> > accelerator, red led on again. Basically I found I could put along
> > if I kept the draw (motor amps) under 175 or so.
>
> Does the controller actually feel hot when the red overtemp LED is
> coming on? If the controller is in fact _not_ hot when the overtemp LED
> is flickering/coming on, then you could have a bad connection between
> the control and power boards in the controller. These circuit boards are
> connected by a 6-pin and a 4-pin connector. The connectors are made up
> of two female sockets on the control board that slide onto pins which
> protrude off the side of the power board.
>
> Some pictures to help clarify my less-than-perfect description are here:
> http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/ , specifically see:
> http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/connector_pins.jpg
> http://www.driveev.com/temp/controller/connector_sockets.jpg
>
> Hope that helps...
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
J.R. Young wrote:
Well, I took a little ride (75 degrees under the hood, truck idle for about
5 hours now). As soon as I turned the key on and barely pressed the
accelerator to back up... red led came on. I decided to run it until it
"cut out". After I backed up about 20 feet... red led went off. I went
back and forth in the drive way trying to get it back on, to no avail. I
took it out on the road, drove it pretty normal and did a couple of moderate
accelerations and had full power and could not get the red LED to come back
on.
What is strange about the whole thing is that when the red LED comes on it
will eventually "cut out" completely. It will also seem to be very weak
(wont let the battery amps go over 60 or so before cutting out completely).
It really seems like something is going out, but tonight, it seemed just
fine again (with the exception of the red LED coming on initially when I
started to back up).
I'm going to pull it apart tomorrow and check the connections. Hopefully
something is loose.
Is there anything else that could be causing this behavior?
Everything you describe is very similar to how my old Raptor behaved
when the connectors went bad. It might be that the connectors are
loose/corroded. In my case not only were the connectors a bit corroded,
but one of them subsequently failed (one pin in the 6-pin socket finally
broke off completely). The problems with my Raptor were completely
solved when we replaced the connector sockets with new ones.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank you for the help Nick, I appreciate it! I'll post again tomorrow
evening after I take a look inside.
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
> Hi,
>
> J.R. Young wrote:
> > Well, I took a little ride (75 degrees under the hood, truck idle for
about
> > 5 hours now). As soon as I turned the key on and barely pressed the
> > accelerator to back up... red led came on. I decided to run it until it
> > "cut out". After I backed up about 20 feet... red led went off. I went
> > back and forth in the drive way trying to get it back on, to no avail.
I
> > took it out on the road, drove it pretty normal and did a couple of
moderate
> > accelerations and had full power and could not get the red LED to come
back
> > on.
> >
> > What is strange about the whole thing is that when the red LED comes on
it
> > will eventually "cut out" completely. It will also seem to be very weak
> > (wont let the battery amps go over 60 or so before cutting out
completely).
> > It really seems like something is going out, but tonight, it seemed just
> > fine again (with the exception of the red LED coming on initially when I
> > started to back up).
> >
> > I'm going to pull it apart tomorrow and check the connections.
Hopefully
> > something is loose.
> >
> > Is there anything else that could be causing this behavior?
>
> Everything you describe is very similar to how my old Raptor behaved
> when the connectors went bad. It might be that the connectors are
> loose/corroded. In my case not only were the connectors a bit corroded,
> but one of them subsequently failed (one pin in the 6-pin socket finally
> broke off completely). The problems with my Raptor were completely
> solved when we replaced the connector sockets with new ones.
>
> --
> -Nick
> http://Go.DriveEV.com/
> 1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
> ---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
One other thing I suggest: once you're on the road, get roadside
towing from AAA. When you run out of juice away from home, and
trust me, you will do it once, get a tow instead of trying to
limp home. That last 1 mile can mean a reversed cell and damaged
battery.
Tim
On Jul 25, 2005, at 12:00 PM, Electric Vehicle Discussion List wrote:
From: Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: July 25, 2005 8:21:37 AM PDT
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Hello and quit scaring me.
Ken Albright wrote:
However, in the email today was a comment that is a
bit off-putting to a newbie. Something to the effect
that everyone fries their first battery pack. I
Well.. its true. It doesn't have to be, but it usually is.
Some ways to avoid it (or lessen the pain)
Start with floodeds for your first pack of batteries. They are
more tolerent of accidential over/under charging, which as a
beginner you will probably do. They are also cheaper and last
longer... for most vehicles the batteries will only be about $1000-
$1500
Use a timer to shutdown the charger if the charge cycle takes too
long.
Measure individual battery voltages on a frequent basis, and keep a
logbook of how much energy per trip you are using. Get a decent
piece of instrumentation (E-meter) and understand how to use it.
Don't leave the garage without verifying your last charge completed.
Make sure your average trip length is well inside of your worst
case range. A 35 mile range EV driven 5-10 miles a charge will
have much longer battery life than when the same EV is driven 30
miles per charge. Additionally as batteries age they will still
perform, but your range will lessen. A EV used for very short
trips (5 miles) will be able to drive on batteries that would be
considered "Dead" on an EV that requires 30 miles.
If possible figure out a way to charge at work, keeping the
batteries charged as much as possible will really help their life.
With care batteries can last a long time... but beginners often
drive too far, or do not pay attention when charging and shorten
their life.
Mark
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When I licensed my Force in Ohio, I obtained a letter from Solectria,
certifying that it was a ZEV. That qualifed it for a permanent exemption
from local emission testing. The local EPA office provided me with a
waiver, which (if necessary) I can present in place of the E-check form. No
problems at all.
I suspect that all you need is such a letter from Solectria.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/27/05, Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I was gonna buy a special meter for my solar so I could track the output
> from my panels and it strikes me that an emeter might be a good option.
> I could imagin these scenarios
> 1 voltage is high enought to power emeter but not the sunnyboy, so
> current would be zero. emeter should handle this, it happens at each
> stoplight
Jeff, since it's a Sunnyboy, why not just install the powerline modem
and buy the PC based data collection system? I don't think it's any
more expensive than an E-Meter, is designed for the job and comes with
software to display the appropriate information.
> The reason for the 2 emeters is I am considering putting a second set of
> panels up facing east (the others face west) and using an emeter on each
> set and a pair of isolation diodes, connect them to same inverter. I
> want to compare the power in the first half of the day to the second. I
> have more roof on the east surface and I can't believe the claims that
> the west is that much better, especially with the reduction in
> efficiency when they get hot. Plus I could share an inverter, which
> means I can increase my system on the DC side without all those utility
> grade contractors. :-)
If you have a logging system (of any kind), you'll be able to know
from the time whether the sun was in view or behind plane for each of
the arrays. So, you know which the power is coming from at that time.
This will at least give you a good idea of the percentage that each is
producing. Of course this will change over the seasons, so if you
really want to know how exactly much each is contributing through the
year, you will need two meters, I agree, and as Lee suggests, you
might find there are more suitable meters than the Link 10.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
