EV Digest 4531
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) EV on CNN this weekend
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV Vehicle choice
by Randy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Electric Vehicle Help
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) CUSHMAN tags
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: More questions E-meter serial port
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Datsun truck
by Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Datsun truck
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: More questions E-meter serial port
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Silver Bullet Flies Again!
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Datsun truck
by "Tim Humphrey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Ampabout ... brake vacuum switch
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: A timer on PFC chargers
by "David" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Vacuum tubes for motor control?
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: EV Vehicle choice
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
21) Re: Quit scaring me - battery killing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Chris Buresh)
22) Re: Sealed Lead Acid Cycle Life
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: A timer on PFC chargers
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Bradlley GT in Modesto
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) A Shunt for Jerry
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) hybrid battery question
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
27) Re: A timer on PFC chargers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: A timer on PFC chargers
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
The idea I think is to use the larger Optima batteries at 59 pounds. It
should do better than Meanie range wise. Also saving 600 bucks is
something. Just don't know if the larger Optimas are a good value or are
durable. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 8:30 AM
Subject: RE: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
I don't think that 13 Optima's will give you the range you want, at least
not for long, as you will be discharging them too deeply. This is about
the max range of Blue Meanie with the same battery pack. Blue Meanie is
lighter and more efficient than your truck is going to be. Why limit
yourself to 156v? Just get the Higher voltage Zilla controller and add a
few more AGMs to the string. Now you should be able to find the perfect
balance you are looking for.
damon
From: "Pestka, Dennis J" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
Date: Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:19:25 -0500
Lee;
Thanks for the response.
The other thing I'm trying to juggle in the equation is the weight of a my
battery pack and how it affects performance.
This vehicle weighs in at about 2085#, with a GWR of almost 4000#.
I figure after stripping off everything I can get down in the 1700# range.
I'm guessing that after conversion, "less batteries", I will be in the
1950#
range.
A pack of 20 T-105's will add 1220# bringing total weight to ~ 3170#.
If I go with sealed batteries, I can reduce that weight significantly.
(13) Optima's = 2535#.
This 635# reduction in weight and higher voltage will also make a
difference
in how this vehicle performs.
The million dollar question is, will it give me the range I desire, ~ 20
mile range most of the time, with a 30 mile range on occasion, and not
kill
my pack in a short period of time.
After spending years with the flooded batteries with my tractors, I also
must admit I'm really interested in trying something new. The sealed
battery
features of a clean, maintenance free installation sounds very tempting.
Thanks;
Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: Lee Hart [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 3:59 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 1965 Datsun Truck - Future Electric Vehicle
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> I am looking for advice because I am really torn between performance
> and range. I live in a rural area and the nearest town is 9 miles and
> a more frequented town is 15 miles each way... My hope is to get some
> of the students at my wife's school interested in Electric Vehicles.
It all depends on what you mean by performance.
To an enthusiast, "high performance" means the vehicle does something
exceptionally well; far better than normal cars. Very fast straight-line
accelleration, or extremely fast cornering for example. The car might look
like a wreck and be impossible to drive on a daily basis; but it wins
races!
But to most people (and probably the vast number of high school kids), the
*appearance* of performance is more important than the actual numbers. A
fancy paint job counts more than good aerodynamics. Wide tires matter more
than good handling. A loud engine means more than real horsepower.
Tire-burning matters more than actual accelleration. A loud stereo matters
more than racing gauges.
This means you can have a car that *appears* to be high-performance, and
will impress the heck out of the average kid or young adult. But in fact,
it
can have performance of the sort that impresses your wife as a daily
driver.
Her definition of "performance" probably means "keeps up with normal
traffic, and is smooth, quiet, comfortable, easy to drive, and great
operating economy and reliability".
EVs have unique abilities that allow them to meet both sets of
requirements
simultaneously.
For example, even a smallish series motor can produce astounding amounts
of
torque. Even an 8" Advanced DC motor can provide impressive tire-burning
take-offs and very fast accelleration at low speeds. With its rear wheel
drive and battery weight in back, you can make it so fast that nothing in
the school parking lot could match its 0-30 mph time!
But you can still use big old flooded batteries for long life, good range,
and economy. No casual onlooker knows the difference between a Trojan and
an
Optima. So use the floodeds to cut your battery cost in half. With 20 6v
golf cart batteries, you have enough energy for your
30+mile range, yet plenty of power for showing off.
A Zilla controller can be set to give you 1000+ motor amps for
neck-snapping
accelleration, but limit battery current to 250 amps for long life and
good
range. The side effect is that performance at high speed is limited; you
have to climb hills slower, and it accellerates worse at high speeds.
John Wayland has hit on the "magic" formula for impressing people with his
EVs. Gorgeous paint jobs, immaculately restored interiors, powerful
stereos,
and car-show-quality construction and detailing make his EVs
*very* impressive. But none of these things prevent you from having a
completely mundane, normal-performing daily driver.
Now for the wife-performance factors: Find out what *she* looks for in a
great car. If she's like mine, she wants silent operation, smooth riding,
and very easy to drive (no shifting, power steering and brakes, power
everything, etc.). No funny meters or switches or other gadgets to mess
with.
These are easy on an EV. They are naturally quiet. Even with a manual
transmission, you can provide it with electric reverse she can just leave
it
in one gear all the time. You can add power steering and brakes. An
impressive stereo is a great touch. Loud is fine (to impress others), but
she may be more interested in a satellite radio or MP3 player.
Extra convenience features that you can't get on normal cars are a big
plus.
For instance, she never has to go to a gas station. The heater and air
conditioner can be set up to run even when the car is parked, so she can
come out to a comfortable car in the heat or summer or dead of winter.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading Or do the great deeds worth
repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Global Challenges programme will apparently have some EV coverage,
from the 2005 EXPO in Aichi.
http://edition.cnn.com/CNNI/schedules/schedule.1.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Twenty thosand is too high just for batteries. For the last two years the van
was driven 10000 miles per year. Also the GVWR is 6800. Not sure what to do.
Randy
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Jul 26, 2005 7:42 PM
To: EV Discussion List <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: EV Vehicle choice
<<<
Have a 15K limit for everything but maybe could go a little higher. Are you
talking about 20k just for batteries?
Randy
>>>
Yes, that's just the pack, but it's NiCd's, which last several times as long -
the same capacity in lead will be 1/2 the cost while being well over a ton of
battery pack, which might overload your van's GVWR, even if it's fairly high.
Might be nice to make it a hybrid, but if it was that easy, everything in the
UPS fleet would already be there! Maybe if you could cut down the Cd on your
van (can't cut the square footage due to utility needs) and do whatever
possible to decrease rolling resistance, you might cut the size of the pack,
but getting 40-60mi range will take a lot of thought, and $6K or $8K for the
motor/adapter, controller, and charger may be the least of your worries!
________________________________________
PeoplePC Online
A better way to Internet
http://www.peoplepc.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How long does it take to just drag it around to get to 7.5k miles, another 1
or 2k? Chucking a drill on the speedo cable and leaving overnight works
too.
Mark
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neon John" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 10:57 AM
Subject: Re: Electric Vehicle Help
> On Tue, 26 Jul 2005 07:52:00 -0500, "ohnojoe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
> >If all fails, visit another DMV.
> >I'd mess with odometer reading as a vary last resort.
> >AS someone suggested, you can always say that the odomerer
> >itself is new but the vehicle is not so new.
> >They are the ones who made these stupid regulations
> >so difficult, so you play their game too.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone got a title or tags for a Cushman truck like this? I think they
might make an ideal EV if I could get it street legal. Thanks, Mark
http://www.southbostonsurplus.com/CUSHMAN.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
> I could probably power it from one of the E-meter's serial port
> control signals.
Not quite; the E-meter can only source about 1-2 ma on its serial
output. But I have a circuit that *will* work with this low current.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone wrote:
Lee;
But wouldn't the weight of the vehicle affect
range?
Would a 2500# truck use the same watthours per
mile as a 3500#
truck?
That's what I'm struggling with. As you add more
batteries you also
add
more weight that those batteries have to push
down the road.
Is there any way to determine an optinal ratio of
weight added to
benefit received?
================
I'm a newbie so take this as you will.
In Bob Brant's book, Build Your Own Electric Vehicle
(p 233) he lists several batteries for comparison. One
column is titled "Energy Density wtt-hours/lb" That
may be what you're looking for. By benefit, I assume
you mean energy. Then energy per pound sounds like the
calculation you're looking for. Perhaps someone else
could tell you the details of this calculation.
Ken
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/27/05, Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Someone wrote:
>
> Lee;
>
> But wouldn't the weight of the vehicle affect
> range?
> Would a 2500# truck use the same watthours per
> mile as a 3500# truck?
>
> That's what I'm struggling with. As you add more
> batteries you also
> add more weight that those batteries have to push
> down the road.
Weight affects performance a lot more than range. If you take the
case of the van going at 50mph on a flat road, the only difference if
it weighs 2500 or 3500 pounds is a small amount of rolling resistance
- it might be a negligible difference in fact.
There is obviously more mass to accellerate and push up hills as well,
but again this might not be a very big impact on range, depending on
the terrain.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yeah, I didn't figure that would work. I don't think I've ever seen a
-232 port that was rated to source more than about 10 ma. I was thinking
that since it doesn't rx, it might just put a constant voltage out on the
control leads and wouldn't need any drive circuits.
Anyway, I'll bet the DC/DC converter powering my E-meter probably has
enough spare power to handle this. Worse case, since I only need 3.3V, I
could always use another DC/DC to drop the 12V and boost the current.
> Peter VanDerWal wrote:
>> I could probably power it from one of the E-meter's serial port
>> control signals.
>
> Not quite; the E-meter can only source about 1-2 ma on its serial
> output. But I have a circuit that *will* work with this low current.
> --
> *BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
> -- Mahatma Gandhi
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Father Time and son Tom True have entrusted me with their world record
setting triple motor Datsun Z Car, and have bravely let me have my way
with it :-)
The car is now here in Portland, and together with forklift wrench
buddies Tim Brehm and Jeffrey Bywater, we've been waking up the beast.
Gone are the old tired batteries and in their place are 14 brand new
Exide Blue Top marine Orbitals. With a 156V pack back in 2002, this car
recorded a world record best of 14.779 @ 87.58 for the street legal SC/D
class...we intend on destroying that! With three Prestolite motors and
three 1200 amp Raptor controllers to give 3600 amps into the motor
circuit, plus 2500 amps of power available at the battery side of things,
I'm pushing the 156V nominal rated controllers at 168V with the 14, 12V
batteries. Special care has to be taken and certain safety designs
followed to keep the controllers from ever seeing the fully charged 200+V
potential the 168V can obtain.
Last night we pretty much finished the 4/0 heavy gauge battery
inter-connects, so the pack is ready to make power. Gone is the 50 lb.
12V battery under the hood, replaced with a 10 lb. Hawker, and, other
weight savings methods have been employed. We're having fun breathing new
life into this fast EV.
Tonight the control wiring will get finished and a test drive and battery
break-in will follow. Madman Rudman is supplying racing meats for the
back end. With Jeffrey as the driver (he drove it last year at 120V here
in Portland), I'm predicting a 14.3 @ 95 mph as a worse case run, and
hoping that maybe even a high 13 @ 100 mph is in the cards! We 'were'
going to race it at PIR this weekend, but the weekend drag racing has
been canceled due to the Portland Le Mans races. We're now looking into
running at Woodburn this weekend instead, and if that doesn't work out,
we've be at PIR next weekend for sure.
At 14.7, this car was no slouch and could beat the majority of the higher
performance gas cars out there on the streets. With less weight and far
more power now, it should really be fun.
We'll keep everyone posted.
See Ya...John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>> Range is all about pounds of batteries. To get an X-mile range will
>> require Y pounds of lead-acid batteries. It doesn't matter what the
>> pack voltage is, and it doesn't matter what type of battery you use
>> (flooded, sealed AGM, etc.).
Pestka, Dennis J wrote:
> But wouldn't the weight of the vehicle affect range?
> Would a 2500# truck use the same watthours per mile as a 3500# truck?
I was assuming the same vehicle; thus the same weight without batteries.
So all you are changing is battery weight. When the basic vehicle's
weight remains the same, it watthours/mile remain basically the same
regardless of the number of batteries you put in it.
> That's what I'm struggling with. As you add more batteries you
> also add more weight that those batteries have to push down the
> road.
But it's a minor effect. There are basically 3 factors that affect how
much power it takes to push it down the road; rolling resistance,
aerodynamic drag, and drive train losses. Adding batteries adds weight,
which only affects the rolling resistance; the aerodynamics and
efficiency remain basically the same.
So adding batteries *always* increases range, and (if your controller
and motor can handle the power they produce) *always* increase
accelleration. There is no optimum value. The limit is when the chassis
breaks from the excessive weight.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Since it takes some rocket scientist type like Omar to build a
> switching or transistor-based motor controller (apparently trying
> to make one yourself is not for the faint of heart), and it also
> takes big bucks, it got me to thinking. Is it possible to use
> vacuum tubes to build a motor controller?
The circuits are roughly the same, whether they used vibrating switches
(1900s), vacuum tubes (1930s), thyratrons (1950s), SCRs (1970s), bipolar
transistors (1980s), MOSFETs (1990s), or IGBTs (today). Each is a step
up the technological ladder, and generally worked better but also added
some disadvantages.
The newer the technology, the more efficient and more reliable it
generally gets. However, it also gets more complex and sophisticated and
harder to build. Kind of like the transition from a rock to a hammer to
an electric nail gun.
You can build your own controller without a lot of special skills or
cost; just don't expect it to be as sophisticated or perform as well as
the "higher tech" ones.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> It can be done technically but impractical - controller will be
> very large physically and you will have a big challenge (to say
> at least) to provide adequate cooling for the tubes. Not to
> mention that reliability of the filaments in a vibration prone
> environment is going to be quite low.
Vacuum tube based motor controllers actually used special tubes that
weren't anything like normal radio tubes. Look up "ignitron" and
"thyratron" on the web for some examples.
The tubes were gas-filled with mercury or other materials to lower the
on-state voltage drop and raise the current ratings. The grid triggered
them on like an SCR. They could easily switch thousands of voltage and
carry hundreds of amps.
The on-state voltage drop was 10-30 volts, so efficiency was low at low
voltages; like 75% with a 120v supply, compared to 95%+ with a modern
controller. Yes, they produced a lot of heat! But vacuum tubes don't
mind running red-hot.
"Fragile" filaments were not a problem; in fact they rarely were with
vacuum tubes. They are a lot more durable than light bulbs, and we use
them in cars.
--
*BE* the change that you wish to see in the world.
-- Mahatma Gandhi
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Let's see..
The 2006 Chevy Silverado Extended Cab 2wd truck, 4 door, easily 1000lbs
heavier than the regular cab truck, powered by the V8 4.8l engine through
the automatic transmission is rated at 16mpg city and 19 hwy. The same truck
with the regular cab is rated at 16/20.
I don't believe the city ratings, but the highway ratings do seem close to
what I've experienced.
I do know for a fact that I can put 1000lbs of crap in the back of my truck,
and if it fills the bed evenly up to the sidewalls, my mileage will improve,
by quite a bit. But I've never actually measured the results.
If interested, I can take some data. I will weigh the truck and run a tank
of gas through and get the mpg figures, then I will load the bed with
firewood, weight the truck and record the mpg. This will take me two weeks
minimum to accomplish, as I will use it as my daily commuter during the
test.
--
Stay Charged!
Hump
"Ignorance is treatable, with a good prognosis. However, if left untreated, it
develops into Arrogance, which is often
fatal. :-)" -- Lee Hart
Get your own FREE evgrin.com email address;
send a request to ryan at evsourcecom
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Evan Tuer
> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2005 10:05 AM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Datsun truck
>
> On 7/27/05, Ken Albright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Someone wrote:
>>
>> Lee;
>>
>> But wouldn't the weight of the vehicle affect range?
>> Would a 2500# truck use the same watthours per mile as a 3500#
>> truck?
>>
>> That's what I'm struggling with. As you add more batteries you
>> also add more weight that those batteries have to push
>> down the road.
>
> Weight affects performance a lot more than range. If you take the case of
> the van going at 50mph on a flat road, the only difference if it weighs 2500
> or 3500 pounds is a small amount of rolling resistance
> - it might be a negligible difference in fact.
> There is obviously more mass to accellerate and push up hills as well, but
> again this might not be a very big impact on range, depending on the
> terrain.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It's a Bad temp sensor.
Fried controllers go BANG!!
Are you sure you are getting LOTS of good cool airflow?
The Fan should be screaming with the Red LED on.
IT's a hot time of the Year and aircooled equipment takes a beating. Gotta
have airflow!!
Oh my Raptor 1200 has NEVER over heated... Even racing. The Fans run about
30 seconds after I scream home at 1000 amp. I have ran air , and many square
inches of inflow and outflow.
So... you need to have the temp sensor looked at.
Don't ask where. I don't do that for DCPs.anymore.
Your fan DOES come on Right???? No fan in 100 Deg weather is.. going to give
you the same results.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "J.R. Young" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
> I believe I may have smoked my Raptor 600...
>
> On a fairly routine trip the other day I found myself on a large hill that
I normally avoid. Given that I was only out for a short 5 mile drive, I
didn't think much of going full throttle up the hill (I was only thinking
about battery time, and had completely forgotten about Jim's story of frying
on of his controllers under similar circumstances).
>
> So, long story short, about 5 minutes AFTER the hill incident, the little
red overtemp led came on, and I came stuttering to a halt. Having never
experienced this before, I let it set about 5 minutes, turned the key back
on, and drove home. Incident forgotten.
>
> Today (3 days later or so), I hopped in the truck and headed to work. I
was almost there (12 miles one way)... cruising along at about 35mph, and
the red overtemp led came back on. Thinking it was odd (since my trip to
work, while long, is pretty flat), I pulled over and let it sit a few.
Turned the key back on, barely pressed on the accelerator, red led on again.
Basically I found I could put along if I kept the draw (motor amps) under
175 or so. After sitting all day long at work, nothing had changed when I
got back in to drive home, so I towed it home with my gasser.
>
> I would imagine there are those of you who have already been through this,
so I thought I would throw my situation out for advice.
>
> Is this most likely a fried controller? Are there any user serviceable
parts inside? Anybody still working on DCP's, or should I be looking for a
replacement?
>
> Thanks in advance for you help!
>
> Glenn
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
J.R. Young wrote:
Thank you for the help Nick, I appreciate it! I'll post again tomorrow
evening after I take a look inside.
Between the control board and the power stage of the Raptor there are 2
connectors. One has 6 pins, one has 4. The 6 pin connector appears to
carry the current sense and PWM drive signals, the 4 pin appears to be
the temp sensors. (Anyone wants to correct me, feel free) Carefull
inspect both.. in Nick's case the crack in the pin on the control board
connector was almost invisible.
Mark Farver
Glenn
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nick Viera" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 11:49 PM
Subject: Re: DCP Raptor 600 Failure?
Hi,
J.R. Young wrote:
Well, I took a little ride (75 degrees under the hood, truck idle for
about
5 hours now). As soon as I turned the key on and barely pressed the
accelerator to back up... red led came on. I decided to run it until it
"cut out". After I backed up about 20 feet... red led went off. I went
back and forth in the drive way trying to get it back on, to no avail.
I
took it out on the road, drove it pretty normal and did a couple of
moderate
accelerations and had full power and could not get the red LED to come
back
on.
What is strange about the whole thing is that when the red LED comes on
it
will eventually "cut out" completely. It will also seem to be very weak
(wont let the battery amps go over 60 or so before cutting out
completely).
It really seems like something is going out, but tonight, it seemed just
fine again (with the exception of the red LED coming on initially when I
started to back up).
I'm going to pull it apart tomorrow and check the connections.
Hopefully
something is loose.
Is there anything else that could be causing this behavior?
Everything you describe is very similar to how my old Raptor behaved
when the connectors went bad. It might be that the connectors are
loose/corroded. In my case not only were the connectors a bit corroded,
but one of them subsequently failed (one pin in the 6-pin socket finally
broke off completely). The problems with my Raptor were completely
solved when we replaced the connector sockets with new ones.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
!DSPAM:42e7066c312756543590820!
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--- Begin Message ---
My daily drive has been rather routine, and I have been buried in
college assignments to write of my daily experiences. When I
do get some time I figured the list is more newswires were more of
interest than my short commute.
I am trying to arrange to take my Blazer EV in for some much
needed body work. The window gaskets have shrunk around the glass
and allowed water rust the body under the paint.
I will have to find a good body shop to remove the front and
side windows, get the rust out, and repaint. The body shop will
likely want to do the whole vehicle, which means they will have
it for a while. I will have to work an alternate method to get
to work. Perhaps the Electric scooter I used when my leg was
healing.
I will also have to request new HOV decals from the DMV. These
are faded anyway, but with a total paint job all my HOV and
yellowed 'Electric' decals will have to be taken off.
Meanwhile, the large round black vacuum switch on top of my 12
volt brake vacuum is forgetting how to shut off. I will soon
need to replace it.
But I will need to find a compatible switch for this solar
electric conversion. The switch I saw on evparts.com does not
look the same and I fear it does not mount the same either.
Well, its time to fork out some money and do some maintenance
on my baby. Guess I will do a web search for a good body and
paint shop near by.
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
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I flip my pfc-20 power switch off and on quite often after a full charge..
The blue timer led begins flashing almost instantly and the charger drops
the
current to 4 amps or less and later backs it on down to 2-3 amps just as it
does
at the end of the normal finishing time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: A timer on PFC chargers
> Rich, what happens if during or after charge the mains power
> get interrupted for a few seconds (happens here regularly)?
>
> Will the charger and its timer reset and initiate another full
> cycle? I guess it will, just as when you cycle the power switch.
> It has no way of knowing if that reset was user's request or the
> power failure.
>
> I guess not too good for a topped off batteries...
>
> Victor
>
> Sharon Hoopes wrote:
> > TURN IT SELF "OFF" AFTER BATTIERS ARE FULL???..........BILL
> >
> > Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
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Lee Hart wrote:
>Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
>
>>It can be done technically but impractical - controller will be
>>very large physically and you will have a big challenge (to say
>>at least) to provide adequate cooling for the tubes. Not to
>>mention that reliability of the filaments in a vibration prone
>>environment is going to be quite low.
>>
>>
>
>Vacuum tube based motor controllers actually used special tubes that
>weren't anything like normal radio tubes. Look up "ignitron" and
>"thyratron" on the web for some examples.
>
>
>
This page has loads of interesting old glassware:
http://www.electricstuff.co.uk/
hmm.. glass bulb filled with mercury vapor running at a few hundred
degrees... I'll pass!
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://wwia.org/
http://nnytech.net/
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<<<<Twenty thosand is too high just for batteries. For the last two years the
van
was driven 10000 miles per year. Also the GVWR is 6800. Not sure what to do.
Randy>>>>
Well, at least nicds will outlast several lead packs! A NiMH Ranger might have
gone the distance, but your van has more frontal area, higher Cd, more weight,
and a less efficient driveline, so you need more than the 30kWh in the NiMH
pack. If the GVWR is high enough, it may handle a lead-acid pack, but you're
probably looking at 300V of floodeds, over 3000#...at least it's only $4-5K a
pop. Might be better use of your time and money to convert the van to CNG and
consider that your contribution to cleaner air.
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Realistically, could I survive a MN winter without charging - assuming 100% SOC
at start?
I know Lee is aware, but for others - MN can hit freezing any day from Oct to
Mar.
--
Chris Buresh
St. Paul, MN
-------------- Original message --------------
> Chris Buresh wrote:
> >
> > What type of considerations need to be made for winter driving? How long
> > can
> batteries sit in 20F weather before freezing? I most likely will store the
> vehicle to protect the structure. How do I keep the batteries alive in my
> cold
> garage?
>
> Cold storage is no problem. The lower the temperature, the slower the
> self discharge rate and the longer it can sit without charging.
>
> The freezing point for a lead-acid battery depends on its state of
> charge. It is approximately
>
> -60 deg.F at 100% SOC (specific gravity over 1.250)
> -15 deg.F at 50% SOC (specific gravity over 1.200)
> +20 deg.F at 0% SOC (specific gravity over 1.100)
>
> The real problem with cold is that it slows down the charging and
> discharging reactions. It takes much longer to charge a cold battery;
> you need to charge it at a higher voltage, and it will draw less
> current. If you try to drive, the voltage sag will be worse and you
> can't draw nearly as much current.
>
> If you expect to drive your EV in winter, put the batteries in an
> insulated box, and provide a heater.
> --
> The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity.
> -- Harlan Ellison
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
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250 cycles??? Yea I know that's the published life span of AGM and Optima
Yellow tops to be really clear.
OK
Why am I in the 7th year of my Yt life, and lost count of the cycle count ,
about .....3 times. My current Emeter shows +347 cycles, This is about %20
of what they really have.
They have been raced, neglected, tortured... and I get them to come back
every time.
Clearly... If you have a decent charger, AGMs are a really cost effective
way to go. My Yts have always had Regs on them. John's Yts never had Regs,
but he always recharges them quickly after a run and lets the charger tamper
off for 15 minutes after the batteries are full. Simple stuff. Put it away
full and happy, Every time, and you will have incredible life and
performance from Sealed AGM batteries.
Run them empty every time, use a third world charger on them, let them set
for days semi charged... and have those wonderful "Events" that variac
chargers do from time to time, and you will kill your AGMs in less than 200
cycles. I am sure there are some folks on this list that have had a pack go
away in less than 150 cycles...
I can hear the Regs playing with the charger right now.... kicking the old
lead back into line. Just like they are supposed to.
Even better long life stories, Johnson control Dynasty batteries... Joe
finally killed 4 by leaving his main breaker on for months... Yea Even us
pros have those issues from time to time. These are 4 of the 16 that Damon
Crockett got for us in about 1996, They ran in Goldie at Woodburn 1...Ran
the Raptor test string, Ran many other test packs and small Evs, Ran in
Joe's Silverado...48 volt street machine for a couple of years... and now 3
of them have kept my Fork truck kinda alive for the last couple of months.
These batteries just don't want to die, given a fighting chance, they keep
coming back. Out of the 16 I think only 2 have been deemed beyond recovery.
8 are in known service, the other 6 are waiting for rebirth or.... recycle.
Don't believe the 250 cycles....for some of us that's the break-in
number....
Proving again, most battery death is murder....not old age.
Somewhere in the Thread is a $2K for a charger is really a bargain if you
burn up 2 packs of batteries with a lesser charger.
OK I will keep the blatant sales to a low rumble here...
But the charger is the MOST important piece of gear for battery health and
life.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
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The timer in the PFC chargers can be set from15 min to 2.75 hours, about as
long as you wish to float charge most packs....
IT's there... I just set the chargers to do Yts as they leave the shop. I am
not going to sit around for almost 3 hours making sure the timer works.
15 minutes at full power then a nice time out is a nice test run. They all
get this treatment...
So... have timer... some need more... some need away to shut it off no
matter what. We can do that also...It's pretty much there.
Now doing more than 3 hour charges... you have to get tricky or ....add a
external timer.... Or ask me to dial the clock rate down, so you .5 to 8
hours of timer.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, July 25, 2005 10:33 AM
Subject: Re: A timer on PFC chargers
> Rich Rudman wrote:
> ...
> >
> > A mechanical timer the locks out at the end is a real plus.
> ....
> > Mechanical timer.... I am not really interested in the feature.
>
> These two your statements in the same paragraph seem to contradict
> each other :-)
>
> AS I see it, having small wind up timer while may not be fashionable,
> will virtually *guarantee* shut off after pre-set time should
> the power fail, your timer's IC fail or whatever. Since many use
> external timers why not integrate it just for peace of mind?
> Think of it as non-volatile memory...
>
> OF course, if extra 15 min after re-start do no harm, no
> reason to bother. But a user has ability to set it for
> much longer than 15 min. Just a thought.
>
> BTW, I have mechanical timer cutting off mains in my garage.
> Just in case. If I had it inside the charger may be I wouldn't
> bother to put one on the wall...
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
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There is a Bradley GT in Modesto with no motor. If you are interested I'll
send pics & contact info. I have no relation to it. Just interested.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
415-821-3519
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Jerry,
Using #2 gauge wire you would need 76.77 inches to read 500 mV at 500 Amps.
0.1563 ohms is the resistance of 1,000 feet of #2.
E = IR .5V = 500 x R
R = .5/500 = .001 Ohms
.001/.1563 = .006366
.006366 x 1,000 feet = 6.366 feet = 76.77 inches.
For 50 MV just 7.677 inches.
stU
You Email address is not working. Email me at boyntonstu at hotmail dot
com
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Greetings,
One of my co-workers just told me she is looking at hybrids but heard that
the very expensive battery must be replaced every year and this does not
appeal to her. I have not been paying close attention to all the hybrid
messages but am quite sure this is not correct. What is the expected
longevity for the hybrid batteries? We are in Las Vegas where the heat
may impact them.
I am considering an Insight myself, not extremely seriously yet, but my
EVs are all so old that things other than the electrical systems are
breaking. Are there ANY disadvantages to the Insight, other than its
using gasoline?
Thanks,
Gail
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Rich Rudman wrote:
Now doing more than 3 hour charges... you have to get tricky or ....add a
external timer.... Or ask me to dial the clock rate down, so you .5 to 8
hours of timer.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
IT's not about max possible time Rich. It's about the fact that
the cahrger's timer resets *every time* external power is lost
for whatever reason, but mechanical timer doesn't.
It is not too uncommon to have power glitches on stormy days 2-3
times (I've seen 3-10 sec outages).
Yes, the chances are small. But the timers are also cheap and small
unlike battery packs...
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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I understand that. How many times you can run 2-3 amps for 2-3
hours periods without any harm (not to mention wasted energy?
Isn't it better to *guarantee* (with such a simple and cheap means
as a mechanical timer) that it will never happen?
Victor
David wrote:
I flip my pfc-20 power switch off and on quite often after a full charge..
The blue timer led begins flashing almost instantly and the charger drops
the
current to 4 amps or less and later backs it on down to 2-3 amps just as it
does
at the end of the normal finishing time.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, July 22, 2005 3:58 PM
Subject: A timer on PFC chargers
--- End Message ---
