EV Digest 4538
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Insight battery pic / Thunder Sky question
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Finding Parts
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) My old Pickup! (was: Re: Installing Heater Elements...)
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Calrify Peukert effect
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Current limit!!!! Re: Advancing ETEK motors
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Insight battery pic / Thunder Sky question
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Finding Parts
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Installing Heater Elements VW Rabbit/Cabriolet
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Insight battery pic / Thunder Sky question
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Newby: that EV grin
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Motor recomendations
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Insight battery pic / Thunder Sky question
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Portland area EV Dinner
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Auto front suspension donor for trike from RWD
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Silver Bullet Flies tonight AT Woodburn.
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: New Battery Question
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: New Battery Question
by "Jeff Wilson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Freewheel rethought - connecting motor and ICE,
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Silver Bullet Flies tonight AT Woodburn.
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Racing 3wheels, Re: 3 wheel EV's trike pick up, and CUSHMAN Truck
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: CalCars Teach Lead Ron Gremban's battery evaluation and production
cost summary
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Bolt Circle
by Bryan B <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Finding Parts
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Deka Intimidators
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: hybrid battery question
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: What're they worth?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Auto front suspension donor for trike from RWD
by "Dave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Finding Parts
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) Re: Finding Parts
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Trojan 125 capacity
by Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Trojan 125 capacity
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
32) Re: Auto front suspension donor for trike from RWD
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
33) Re: Bolt Circle
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
34) RE: hybrid battery question
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
On 7/30/05, Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Is the Thunder Sky battery built using this method?
>
> http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/511/insight1eq.jpg
Which Thundersky battery? Anyway, no!
> Wouldn't it be cheaper to make it more conventionally then using all
> those smaller batteries?
What's conventional? Do you want a high voltage, low capacity
battery? You need to have the required number of cells in series -
whatever the casing looks like. In this case, 120 x 1.2V 6.5AH
cylindrical NiMH cells in series, made up of "sticks" of 6 cells
each.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm looking for some copper lugs for 4ga wire, with a #10 hole.
The only ones I've found are by http://www.smhco.com/ (SMH co), part
# SYBCL410.
Anyone know where I could actually order and/or get some of these?
(I'm in WA)
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Jul 30, 2005, at 8:50 AM, Don Buckshot wrote:
I just purchased that little white Rabbit Pickup and brought it from
Joplin Missouri to Kansas City last Thursday. I'm sure I will have
some questions for you when I get better acquainted with this
beautiful little truck.
What a nice job of conversion. It is very interesting to see all the
receipts for parts and materials.
To simplify my reply to the question I left out the detail that you
have a 2 level heater in the Pickup. If the stock temp lever is to the
left of center the heaters are off, if in the center the heaters are on
low (1/2 the elements powered in both heaters) and to the right is
high. That is why you have 2 heater relays on drivers side strut tower.
The relays are powered by the fan low speed wire, so if the fan is off
the heater is off.
If you have any questions feel free to ask. I guess its on its 4th
owner as an EV now and I believe its 6th owner in life. I hope you
enjoy the little Pickup.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> Thanks Lee, this is very interesting idea. Since I have
> graphics display, I can easily implement 2D readout.
>
> Yes, I have read Mark's clever gadget, but voltage x current
> is not quite the same as speed x range.
No, it's not. But voltage is (vaguely) related to state of charge
(energy remaining), and current is (vaguely) related to power. So it's a
very simple device to give you a graphical readout of power and energy.
> The problem is, even with this model, the range will
> "breathe" back and forth depending on how you drive.
> One must recognize, that in general *it is not possible*
> to determine range ahead of time period.
> I think to make an EV convenient and worry free, you really
> need to know that you get to your destination no problem.
> If you always do and can plug in there, it makes the interest
> exactly how many Ah are left academic (for casual user, not
> tech heads).
Of course! But, it *is* possible to convey a good idea how much energy
remains in the battery, and how much power the car needs to move.
Suppose you have a carton of milk in the refrigerator. You know roughly
how much your family drinks a day, and you want to know how long it will
last. But the carton is opaque, so you can't see how much is left. But
you can pick it up, and guess how much is left by the weight; and you
can guess about how many glasses it will make. It won't be accurate, but
you'll have an intuitive feel for it ("about 2 day's worth").
It's the same with a battery. We need an understandable way to present
how much energy is in it, and how much your vehicle consumes as you
drive it. Then the driver can make a reasonable prediction as to how far
he/she can go.
This probably means not presenting them in engineering units; your wife
has a feeling for what a gallon is, but not a kilowatthour.
> Back to the Peukert - I think I will store default Peukert
> numbers for common batteries and allow a user to alter it
> based on how well actual results agree with predictions.
> There will be instructions how the numbers impact readouts,
> and by how much to change them to make the best average match.
This is what the E-meter does. It works well enough if the user is smart
enough to configure it properly. And, it presents its data in
engineering units.
I think the next logical step is to make it figure out the battery's
characteristics by itself. It should program itself, not depend on the
operator. And, it should have an alternate "intuitive" display, not just
engineering units like volts, amps, and amphours.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Marco-
> Myles or Shawn
> I want to put cooling fan on my etek in motorcycle
> forced air 4.72" dia fan at brush cover end of perferated
> cap will work as well sucking air out?
Depends which you need to cool more: brushes or coils.
My bet is on the coils---hence my fan sucks...
> would suck air through motor out brush cap would work as
> well as blowin in through brush cap and out slots on outside dia. of
motor?
> a 88cfm or 130 cfm enough air? or need more powerfull fan?
My fan is a whimpy looking 7inch 48v Papst muffin fan running on 36v.
My ETEK doesn't even have the brush cap with the holes in it, so my fan
sucks air only thru the armature slots---yet I can run at the continuous
rated max current of the ETEK----150amps, without the motor heating up.
Whether you suck or blow the air, UNLESS you are making an air shroud which
attaches to and seals at the outer edge of the motor, BE SURE that you plug
the motor slots facing the brush end. WHY? Because, the air will otherwise
mostly suck or blow through thru those slots and not pass thru the rotor
windings as much---which is where the heat is and shouldn't be.
Bottom line---if you suck the air thru the motor, pulling cooler air from
the non-brush end, plug the opposite slots on the motor (e.g. use aluminum
tape) so that the air gets sucked (or blown) thru the armature, then thru
the brush end.
To be clear, if you make a blower shroud attached to the outer body instead
of the brush assembly, you can leave all the slots open---that's what I do.
-Myles Twete, Electric Barge Boat "The Reach of Tide"
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Evan Tuer wrote:
> > Is the Thunder Sky battery built using this method?
> >
> > http://img184.imageshack.us/img184/511/insight1eq.jpg
>
> Which Thundersky battery? Anyway, no!
Are the big plastic boxes filled with what is in the first two pictures?
http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/battery.htm
> > Wouldn't it be cheaper to make it more conventionally then using all
> > those smaller batteries?
>
> What's conventional?
Not having a bunch of "AA" size battteries inside of a box.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
unfortunately i have available only 120mm2 10 hole copper tined lugs, 4ga is
too small for amps :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 9:17 PM
Subject: Finding Parts
> I'm looking for some copper lugs for 4ga wire, with a #10 hole.
> The only ones I've found are by http://www.smhco.com/ (SMH co), part
> # SYBCL410.
> Anyone know where I could actually order and/or get some of these?
> (I'm in WA)
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream.... http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I came darn close to buying that same truck a couple of years ago when Paul
was selling it. I had my wifes aproval and everything, that is until my
wife saw a picture of it. Seems that even though she has fond memories of a
Bug she once owned and approves of Rabbits, she really dislikes the VW
pickups. I wasn't about to buy an EV that she didn't like, so I passed on
the truck and started building my motorcycle. She loves to go for rides on
the EM :-)
damon
From: Don Buckshot <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [email protected]
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Installing Heater Elements VW Rabbit/Cabriolet
Date: Sat, 30 Jul 2005 10:50:57 -0500
Hi Paul ,
I just purchased that little white Rabbit Pickup and brought it from Joplin
Missouri to Kansas City last Thursday. I'm sure I will have some questions
for you when I get better acquainted with this beautiful little truck.
What a nice job of conversion. It is very interesting to see all the
receipts for parts and materials.
Nameste'
Don Buckshot
913-789-0889
Paul G. wrote:
On Jul 29, 2005, at 8:30 AM, Joel Silverman wrote:
I thought I would be proactive and I would like to
replace the Russco heater in my VW Cabriolet with
ceramic heaters while it is still summer. How do I
set this up? I can get the stock heater core out so
that is easy. How do I wire up the heaters?
This is easy, I did it in a Rabbit Pickup I built. First, I recommend 2
heaters unless you live in a mild climate. You need a sheet metal shop to
make a small box without a top the size of the heater core. You can cut
out the bottom to locate the heaters. You just take the little square
element with its frame out of the ceramic heaters.
I then routed the wires (use high temp wire) out where the coolant tubes
used to go. A little block off plate with 2 holes and grommets in the
firewall let the wires into the engine compartment. I would guess you
already have a stout DC rated relay to turn on the Russco element so that
part is covered. You want to hook up your new heaters to the pack voltage
circuit that was for the Russco element. This circuit needs to be able to
handle 30 amps for 2 heaters. Power for this relay coil needs to be
redirected however. You do not want the ceramic heaters on unless the fan
is on. The way I did this was to tap into the fan low speed wire to power
the relay and let the heater on-switch ground the relay. The heater
dropping resistor is about 2 ohms so there is no problem pulling in the
relay if the fan is on high. If the fan is off now the heaters can't be on
but if you turn off the fan with the heater on you will notice the relay
drops out slow. Never seemed to be a problem in my experience but I didn't
make doing that a habit (but I forgot and did that plenty of times.)
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
>
>Are the big plastic boxes filled with what is in the first two pictures?
>
>http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/battery.htm
>
>
Speaking of which, does anyone know if it is possible to buy 20 or 30 of
those 3.6v 10Ah cells?
--
Martin Klingensmith
http://wwia.org/
http://nnytech.net/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lee, Newby and All,
--- Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Sounds like a great set of EV "training wheels"!
I agree! It's best to start out on one likethis to
learn about EV's cheaply.
>
> Tom Shay wrote:
> > You must raise the voltage. Going from 48 to 96
> volts would
> > approximately double the motor speed and
> horsepower.
>
> I don't know if I'd say "must". At 48v with the
> Prestolite motor, you
> are limited to its rated horsepower. That will give
> you NEV-like
> performance; relatively weak hill-climbing and a
> lower top speed.
>
> Raising the voltage allows the motor to spin faster.
> Its current rating
> stays the same, so in effect you get more
> horsepower, meaning more speed
> and faster hill-climbing. But it's also harder on
> the motor; it will
> overheat quicker, and brushes wear a lot faster.
> > You do need better batteries.
> 12 8v golf cart batteries (wired as a 48v pack) will
> weigh slightly
> more, provide considerably more range, and last at
> least twice as long.
>
> For a little more speed, change it to a 72v with 12
> 6v golf cart
> batteries. You'd have to change the charger and
> controller accordingly,
> but would have considerably better hillclimbing and
> a higher top speed,
> and still have the benefits of low battery cost and
> longer life.
I'd go this route as costs are much lower with much
longer life vs AGM's, 12v floodeds or 8vdc batts.
If longer range is wanted and since this motor
really sucks amps, I'd go for T125's or US batt2400's
as they will handle the amps better than the t105
size.
As for controller, I'd go with a contactor
series/parallel the pack and a starting resistor
controller for more punch, power at a much lower cost
than an E controller. At you power levels you basicly
have 2 speeds, starting/parking lot speed, and full
power so an e controller is of little benefit and
costs a lot.
And at 72vdc you can use an easily modified 36vdc
nom golf cart Ferro-resonant regulated charger. I
usually make these for about $20-30 with a dead GC
charger as the starting point in parts.
EV's can be inexpensive or break the bank. I expect
my EV's to cost less than a gas car so go for
simplicity, low cost to get the most EV grin for
the $.
You could sell your controller, charger to pay for
this stuff with some money left over to help with the
new batt pack. Your 48vdc charger is probably a GC one
anyway so you could sell it to a GC dealer or owner
for cash and a couple dead 36vdc chargers with good
transformers.
If your motor has field terminals you can use field
weakening to get a higher top speed so maybe get 55
mph out of it this way.
Many of those motors didn't have field terminals
though and is is 5% less eff than most other EV series
motors.
>
> > I'd consider a set of Optimas.
Only if you want short range and spent much more
money.
I'd set it up simple and inexpensive to learn on
and after a yr or 2, consider what you may want from
your next EV. Then sell this one for others to learn
on giving others the EV grin!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
> Optimas are a good choice if performance is much
> more important than
> money. Personally, this is an old VW Beetle type of
> car; cheap, slow,
> simple, reliable. It can be changed into a Porsche,
> but you'll be
> changing the motor, controller, batteries, charger,
> and probably
> everything else by the time you're done. Is it worth
> it? Save the fancy
> stuff for your next conversion.
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377,
> leeahart_at_earthlink.net
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I haven't gotten my first EV on the road, but am playing with a design
for my second, well kinda.
I want to put batteries in the trunk located like blue meanie (without
the drawer for now) Say 8 orbitals
and maybe a row of 4 more up front for balance and a higher voltage
pack. So 96 or 144 Volts. Then put a single ratio motor to the rear
wheels on my front wheel drive car.
The idea is to convert my 95 grand am to a plug in hybrid. I would like
range of 20 miles max. ( to and from work) and preferably regenerative
braking.
The netain 9 seems overkill and weighs in at 165 lbs all by it's
loansome. The batteries are gonna be 320 lbs added to rear axle, so that
is not bad.
What motors are out there that can give me city driving capability and
regen and weigh less than the netgain?
Are there some readily available motors that are longer and smaller in
diameter to better fit down there?
It would be nice not to have to cut the body, it could more eaisily be
made into a kit for others that way.
Idea's on control? The plan is to let the ice idle to provide power
steering, brakes, and AC for now. Maybe use a hand throttle (like from
handicap conversions)
The way I see it, torque determines weight of motor. IF I could find a
high RPM brushless motor and gear it down. belts? pulleys? chain?
Should I drive only 1 rear wheel =? or come up with a differential?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Martin Klingensmith wrote:
http://www.thunder-sky.com/en/battery.htm
> Speaking of which, does anyone know if it is possible to buy 20 or 30 of
> those 3.6v 10Ah cells?
I imagine Victor could get you some at $2.50 per 1Ah:
$25 each? $500 for 20 or $750 for 30...
http://www.metricmind.com/battery.htm
http://www.metricmind.com/prices.htm
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Sorry for the last minute notice on this, but I've been rather busy with
racing stuff. All EVers are invited to join guests Jim Coates and Mark
Farver who are in town visiting, to have dinner with some of local EV guys
tonight at Giuseppe's, an Italian & pizza restaurant located at 179th & SE
Stark Street, very near the major intersection of Stark & 181st Ave. We're
planning on a late dinner at between 7:45 and 8:00, because Mark's plane
gets in at 7:20 or so.
Those who are interested can simply stop by, listen for the noisy table
with arms flying, and sit on down and join in. I'll be driving Blue Meanie,
so any other EVers with running rides can find an EV friend to park next
to.
See Ya.....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am looking for a donor front suspension from a RWD car with disk brakes,
manual steering, and enough oomph to carry 600 pounds of batteries.
Possibilities might include, Miata, RX7, Triumph, MG.
Any suggestions of what yr/make/model?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
I'm still recovering from a long, hot, crazy, exhausting week.
The Woodburn thing was a huge disappointment last night :-(
It was a total bust! We got to the track late, at 8:00 pm after a
hectic after-work-scramble to get the trailer from way across town,
load it up, and do all the other racing stuff, then the 45 mile drive
to Woodburn....but hey, it was billed as the 'Friday Night Street
Drags'...they turned us away at the gate saying they closed racing
down at dusk :-(
Of course, no mention of this in their phone message
box, only that 'gates open at 3:00'. Lot's of hard work and a week of
effort to be turned away after driving in rush hour traffic 1.5
hours....nice! Frustrating even more, because next weekend PIR is
still closed down as far as drag racing is concerned due to other
racing events. Our driver Jeffrey isn't in town this Friday, and then
Saturday, Tim is out of town, so a return trip to Woodburn next weekend
won't be happening. Maybe the weekend after that?
It's sad, as the Silver Bullet is running strong on the street
test runs, but alas, has no place to show us what it can do for the next two
weeks
:-(
It's like a chained beast trying to tear itself loose to run.
See Ya...John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You are correct David. It is a Solectria. By the way, I have two of them
and I am cleaning them up. I plan on selling one in the near future. 1 or
2 months. Interested? Anyone?
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New Battery Question
Sounds like a Solectria conversion. They came originally with Deka
Dominator 8G24s. Solectria tried a LOT of batteries before they settled on
these. They made a good choice, and I recommend that unless you are going
to experiment with advanced batteries, you stick with them for replacements.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Oh, by the way, thank you for the input.
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of David Roden
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 1:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: New Battery Question
Sounds like a Solectria conversion. They came originally with Deka
Dominator 8G24s. Solectria tried a LOT of batteries before they settled on
these. They made a good choice, and I recommend that unless you are going
to experiment with advanced batteries, you stick with them for replacements.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Want to unsubscribe, stop the EV list mail while you're on vacation,
or switch to digest mode? See how: http://www.evdl.org/help/
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
So what if the engine and the ICE were 'hard' connected to each other
through the jackshaft?
The Kawasaki in neutral with the motor driving.
The armature turning with the engine driving and regen when the brake pedal
is touched.
A lot or a little drag?
What do you think?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John Wayland wrote:
> Maybe the weekend after that?
What's the status on Purple Phaze and White Zombie?
I'd still like to see what it looks like:
http://www.plasmaboyracing.com/purplephaze.php
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
--- Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> jerry dycus wrote:
>
> > If it is a 2f1r 3wh EV designed correctly, can
> > even outhandle the best sportscars!
>
>
> I've always wondered about how 3 wheels would
> compare to 4 in a racing
> environment. If we were to take an existing Nascar
> and a Formula 1
> car and convert each to 3 wheels, and race them
> against the existing 4
> wheel cars, would 3 wheels give an advantage?
If you keep the same front then no way. But if you
redesign it for 3 wheels, then you could have
something!!
You would need to move the motor up front for
correct GC balance with front or better 3 wheel drive
for the traction needed at those power levels.
>
> How about in drag racing? Could a 3 wheel front
> wheel drive car have
> it's weight reduced if the rear was converted to one
> wheel?
Yes you can reduce the weight by about 1/4 but
again probably need 3 wheel drive if the higher power
levels are used.
>
> Rear wheel would have power transfer issues and
> reduced traction due
> to only one tire in the rear. Just one tire in the
Tire could be bigger, wider in the rear!!
> front would
> potentially have steering issues.
>
> Imagine a Top Fuel car with just one front tire.
> Safer? Better?
They kind of need some weight up there to keep
from flipping backwards. With all the E torque you get
would make that more of a problem.
On my new 1f2r trike with a 2.2hp GC transaxle
this is a problem even with about 40% weight on the
front wheel. It's so bad I'm going to put wheelie bar
wheels on it so I can safely wheelie it for show.
There will be the first article of 2 on building
it in a week or so in the ESSN newsletter online.
>
> What is a racing class that could potentially be
> dominated by a 3
> wheel car if one was to enter a race?
SCCA Autocross or other close course road racing
where handling is the main factor. With the low CG of
an EV 3wheeler, it will be hard to beat as the Imp has
shown with 4wheels.
My CG on the Freedom EV will be about 20% lower
than most really good sportscars!!
About 40% lower CG if I lower it with the
adjustable air shocks like can I do for lower air drag
on the freeway.
I'm designing in a high roll center so it should
not roll much in a turn. We'll see as it's my first
front suspension design.
EV's and 3wheels bring out the best in each other.
The 3wheels lower it's weight, cost for the same
performance and the batts lower and place it's CG just
where it needs to be for great handling!!
With an ICE it won't be much better vs 4 wheels
though with a Subaru Flat 4 or 6cyl engine like the
Doran has, could be interesting. But give me an EV
anyday!
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan and All,
>
> L8r
> Ryan
>
> ps. I'm in agreeance with Jerry on further
> downsizing the ICE in
> Hybrids. I mean if my 3 cyl 1 Liter Insight can
> maintain 110mph
> for a full tank of gas there's no reason a 1 cyl 0.3
> Liter version
> couldn't maintain 65mph, or a 2 cylinder 0.6 liter
> maintain 90mph.
> If it's primarily a Performance BEV, then the ICE
> isn't required
> for accelleration at all, it's mearly there for
> steady state use.
Only true if you have over a 20 mile range batt
pack to take care of hills, ect, without slowing down.
>
> ps. Got a new 05 Prius, 40mpg at 80mph, 50mpg at
> 60mph with AC on.
At 80mph, 40 mpg equals about 25hp at 30% eff of
the motor.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
> I'm getting 55 - 60 mpg durring commutes, durring
> the break in period.
> Got the EV-button installed and it's an entirely
> different vehicle.
>
>
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
I've been walking all through internetwonderland, and still haven't
found a drawing, or bolt circle for a VW bellhousing (bug). Anyone know
where I can get it?
Thanks in advance!
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> I'm looking for some copper lugs for 4ga wire, with a #10 hole.
> Anyone know where I could actually order and/or get some of these?
By "lug" do you mean a ring terminal? Waytek has them
(www.waytekwire.com); #35005 noninsulated, #35505 insulated. Of course,
they are local for me (Minnesota) but mail order for you.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
6/9/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hi all
> Just FYI, Car Quest sells the Deka Intimidators under their
> private label "NGT Batteries". Exact same battery at a pretty good price.
> A friend (employee of Car Quest) just put a set of them in his Escort
> about two months ago and they seem to be doing fine. More about that car
> later.
>
> John
Any updates to report? How are the batteries holding up?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Eee gads, Gail is talking about using GASOLINE! What is the world coming to?
BB
>Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Greetings,
>
>One of my co-workers just told me she is looking at hybrids but heard that
>the very expensive battery must be replaced every year and this does not
>appeal to her. I have not been paying close attention to all the hybrid
>messages but am quite sure this is not correct. What is the expected
>longevity for the hybrid batteries? We are in Las Vegas where the heat
>may impact them.
>
>I am considering an Insight myself, not extremely seriously yet, but my
>EVs are all so old that things other than the electrical systems are
>breaking. Are there ANY disadvantages to the Insight, other than its
>using gasoline?
>
>Thanks,
>Gail
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> I have a Kewet with a set of 16 SAFT 100Ah NiCds and I have someone interested
> in buying everything, but, while I know the Kewet is only worth $1500-2000,
> I'm not sure what the NiCds are worth on their own - I don't think they've
> had very many cycles, so if any of the list were going to buy them, what
> would be a typical asking price?
As a data point, I bought a set of 20 SAFT STM-100MR NiCads several
years ago for about $2000. These had an unknown (but assumed to be
small) number of cycles on them. When some of these died a couple
of years later I bought used replacements for $200 each.
Ralph
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mustang II is a good choice. Sturdy, lightweight and lots of aftermarket
parts.
With enough patience,
you can milk a porcupine
David C. Wilker Jr.
USAF (RET)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, July 30, 2005 3:09 PM
Subject: Auto front suspension donor for trike from RWD
I am looking for a donor front suspension from a RWD car with disk brakes,
manual steering, and enough oomph to carry 600 pounds of batteries.
Possibilities might include, Miata, RX7, Triumph, MG.
Any suggestions of what yr/make/model?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:22 PM 7/30/2005, Lee Hart wrote:
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> I'm looking for some copper lugs for 4ga wire, with a #10 hole.
> Anyone know where I could actually order and/or get some of these?
By "lug" do you mean a ring terminal? Waytek has them
(www.waytekwire.com); #35005 noninsulated, #35505 insulated. Of course,
they are local for me (Minnesota) but mail order for you.
Yeah, but those are standard crimp terminals that leave the tip of
the wire exposed.
I'd really prefer the lugs that enclose the entire end of the
wire. Waytek also has them - but not with a #10 hole.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John G. Lussmyer wrote:
> Yeah, but those are standard crimp terminals that leave the tip of
> the wire exposed.
> I'd really prefer the lugs that enclose the entire end of the
> wire.
Any particular reason?
>Waytek also has them - but not with a #10 hole.
Can you not up size to the next bigger hole?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi folks,
I am trying to determine how many Ahrs I can draw from my batteries to
define my range @ 50% (my norm) and 80% discharge.
The VW pickup I just bought (built by Paul "Neon"Gouch) now has 20
Trojan 125 - 6V batteries about 6 months old.
The Trojan 125s are rated as follows:
6 hr = 197 Ahr
20 hr = 235 Ahr
100 hr= 261 Ahr
_How do I come up with the 1 hr rate?_
Is there a web site that has the discharge curves for the Trojan 125s?
How many Ahr = 80% discharged? ( Yes I know there are other factors )
My 120V system seems to use about 2 Ahr per mile, if the Emeter and the
speedometer are accurate.
So 120V * 2Ahr = 240 Watt hrs per mile.
If 10 kwh = 1 gallon of gas, then my "mile per gallon equivalent" would
be only 41.66 mpg. Not all that impressive.
It may be that I just don't understand all that I think I know about this.
Can anyone shed some light on this for me or just direct me to a good
source?
Don Buckshot
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 31 Jul 2005 at 0:12, Don Buckshot wrote:
> _How do I come up with the 1 hr rate?_
Uve's battery page will approximate the Peukert constant from two data
points (you have 3 already). Then with that information it can calculate
the amp-hours at arbitrary times or currents.
Useful stuff.
http://www.geocities.com/CapeCanaveral/Lab/8679/battery.html
If I did it right, it looks like you have about 149ah at the 1 hour rate.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mustang -- the heavy V8 and tranny should make 600 lbs no problem.
Plus there were (are) lots of them made, and there are lots of cheap
aftermarket parts.
Another thought is a truck suspension. This might be easiest, since
they tend to hook everything up to the frame rails, rather than
various points on a unibody.
Indeed, cut the body off the truck and you could leave the running
gear in place! For an example, see http://www.rodster.com .
--- Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I am looking for a donor front suspension from a RWD car with disk
> brakes,
> manual steering, and enough oomph to carry 600 pounds of batteries.
>
> Possibilities might include, Miata, RX7, Triumph, MG.
>
> Any suggestions of what yr/make/model?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 7:35 PM -0700 7/30/05, Bryan B wrote:
Hi,
I've been walking all through internetwonderland, and still
haven't found a drawing, or bolt circle for a VW bellhousing (bug).
Anyone know where I can get it?
Thanks in advance!
Sure,
I have drawings of my adaptor plate on my site. They include the VW
bolt pattern and alignment ridge locations. Aircooled VW's and
Porsches share that.
Go to: http://evcl.com/914/
Click on "adaptor plate"
Drawing 1 shows is all together. Drawing 3 has the dimensions you want.
hth,
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com
Mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Gail,
Last year one of the forst (2001) Prius hybrids that was used as
taxi cab got easily over the 200,000 mile mark without any major
problem and was bought back by Toyota for testing.
The detailed maintenance records are showing in a link at the bottom
of this page: http://www.hybridexperience.ca/Toyota_Prius.htm
BTW: Prius batteries are regularly for sale on Ebay for around $500,
I know people buying them not for their Prius (because its battery
does not fail) but to use in EVs with AC drive, as it delivers
273.6V nominal. (38 x 7.2V modules) Unfortunately the capacity
is rather low at 6.5Ah
Should make a nice MC battery, only NiMH battery management
may be a headache.
I would not hesitate when I again need to decide for a Prius as
my long-distance family vehicle.
The two-seater Insight did not fit my bill (kids) but YMMV.
Hope this helps,
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
>Date: Wed, 27 Jul 2005 14:50:11 -0700 (PDT)
>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>Greetings,
>
>One of my co-workers just told me she is looking at hybrids but heard that
>the very expensive battery must be replaced every year and this does not
>appeal to her. I have not been paying close attention to all the hybrid
>messages but am quite sure this is not correct. What is the expected
>longevity for the hybrid batteries? We are in Las Vegas where the heat
>may impact them.
>
>I am considering an Insight myself, not extremely seriously yet, but my
>EVs are all so old that things other than the electrical systems are
>breaking. Are there ANY disadvantages to the Insight, other than its
>using gasoline?
>
>Thanks,
>Gail
>
--- End Message ---
