EV Digest 4572
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) New EV bikes?
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: EV-200 Resistor for 144v system
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: New EV bikes?
by reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Got my EV Grin :-)
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Conversion Details
by "Chris Tromley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Custom Contactor
by Mike Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: EV-200 Resistor for 144v system
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) JeepEV a big hit at dealership
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: 80v AC 3 phase EV Traction Motors and low voltage AC controllers
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Custom Contactor
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by James H Wolfe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: JeepEV a big hit at dealership
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Efficiency, ADC 5.5" (was: RE: John's GT-6)
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) FW: New EV - Question
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) RE: Conversion Details
by "Patrick Plummer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) A new member waves hello
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: FW: New EV - Question
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: FW: New EV - Question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: FW: New EV - Question
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I just seen these new styles for bicycles and thought
they would be good candidates for EV's. Lots of space
in the frame for batteries.
http://www.mountainbiketales.com/Verdra3.htm
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Danny Miller wrote:
> You can do either the back-to-back mosfets or a blocking diode
> provided 0.3v (schottky) is not too large of a difference.
No, 0.3v is not too large; neither is 3v or even 30v. Here's the
situation. You have thousands of microfarads of capacitors inside the
controller. You have (say) a 120v battery pack with 0.1 ohm of
equivalent resistance. If you connect the two with a contactor, the
curent surge is I = 120v / 0.1 ohm = 1200 amps! This is very hard on the
contactor and capacitors.
If you connect a resistor across the contactor first, it slowly charges
the capacitors at a much lower, safer rate. For instance, the Curtis
1221 controllers have 220uF x 35 = 7700uf. They recommend a 250 ohm
resistor. The time constant is 0.0077f x 250ohm = 2 seconds. After 2
seconds, the capacitors will have charged up to 120v x 0.63 = 76v. Now
when you close the contactor, the peak current is (120v-76v) / 0.1ohm =
440 amps. Since this is a 500amp controller, your main contactor should
be rated to carry this peak current just fine.
You don't want to use a schottky diode, as you won't find one with a
high enough reverse breakdown voltage for most pack voltages. You can do
it at 48v, but not 120v.
You want the diode (or a second MOSFET) because there are unusual cases
where the controller is at a higher voltage than the batteries. So the
same kinds of peak currents can flow but in the reverse direction.
Something has to limit the peak reverse current or you'll have a
reliability problem.
> Current surge nor heat generation is not an issue in a mosfet if
> you still use a resistor.
Correct. However, some have used the MOSFET *as* the resistor,
controlling the gate voltage to get the desired source-drain resistance.
In this case, you need to worry about the peak current and power.
> Frankly I'm not even sure why you have a relay here if you want the
> controller to be charged up to the pack voltage. You've got all the
> leakage current of being hooked up, it just can't draw heavy currents,
> so I guess this is just a safety shutoff thing when it's unattended?
The relay (or switch or MOSFET or whatever) is there so the precharge
resistor isn't left connected all the time. If it is, it will leave the
controller "armed and dangerous" all the time. A fault condition can run
the motor. You'd be surprised how far an EV can move just on the energy
stored in the controller's capacitors!
The other problems are that it exposes the controller to full charging
voltage, and will run down the pack if you leave the car parked for a
long time without charging.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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--- Begin Message ---
great link rod !!
i would really like one of these
2000 W and100AH would do for me
any one got enough cash here to build one ?
reb
Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I just seen these new styles for bicycles and thought
they would be good candidates for EV's. Lots of space
in the frame for batteries.
http://www.mountainbiketales.com/Verdra3.htm
---------------------------------
To help you stay safe and secure online, we've developed the all new Yahoo!
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--- Begin Message ---
Keep it running Jeff, and ask away any questions on this list.
I'm almost certain that if no one on this list can answer
your general questions (not proprietary hardware ones only
manufacturer knows), then no one at all can.
Good luck,
Victor
Jeff Wilson wrote:
Good EVening to EVeryone out there!
I just wanted to let the world know that I now have a huge EV grin!
...
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Bob,
My other ideal, before I used the alternator-inverter system, was a very large
DC-DC converter power by the main battery to provide all the 12 VDC needs which
would have to be about 15 volts to provide about 80 amps peak.
This would provide 12 volt power to all the accessories and charge a 130 AH 12
volt deep cycle battery. Remember that you cannot use the 12 volt battery at
the same time you are charging it. The battery and/or converter can power a
DC-AC converter that's has 12 volt input with a 120 VAC 60 HZ output.
I am using one that has a 3000 watt output with a surge to 5000 watt at 120 VAC
60 HZ. They make a combination type that produces 120 VAC and becomes a 12
volt battery charger. When you are just running of a battery that goes to
about 10 percent charge, the unit will than charge the battery using commercial
power or some other source.
This unit is a Vector which is call a PowerVerter which are listed in JC
Whitney or Radio Shack.com
The reason I did not used this system, is that I do not have any more space
left in my EV. I would have to keep it off-board and plug it into the EV. All
the equipment on my EV is stack side to side and top to bottom. I design the
layout, so I do not have to remove one thing to remove another.
If I keep adding more stuff in my EV, I will need a larger EV which will weigh
more. When will it ever stop. Back in 1975, all I had was a motor, controller,
batteries, charger and one amp and one volt meter.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Bob Bath<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:31 AM
Subject: Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
My understanding is that the fridge is 6A, so 720
watts, with a major surge as the compressor & motor
turn on. The DCDC is 300 watts.
While I'll grant that the fridge is not on all the
time, I'd be concerned about the wear and tear on both
the inverter, pulling so much from a 12V, and also the
DCDC, as it works to keep the battery topped off.
But then, I'm not an EE.
--- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
> Why not power the inverter from the Aux battery and
> let the dc-dc make
> the transition form pack voltage to 12Volts. The
> emeter will now give
> you a fuel gauge and the batteries will stay
> balanced. It is a little
> wastefull converting so much, I wonder if the
> innards in the inverters
> do a boost to a high voltage dc buss before
> switching it down and out as
> AC, If so, tapping into the DC buss (and
> disconnecting the primary
> drive) would be a significant improvement.
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs<http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jeff Shanab wrote:
> What should I use for main contactors, the current rateing on the ev200
> sounds too lightweight, is a ev250 big enough?
Hi Jeff,
The Kilovac contactors are made *very* well and the specs are impressive.
Some even have a nice coil economizer circuit to reduce current draw.
There's one major drawback - they're sealed. If you ever open one (more
likely all at once) under load, you have no idea what that event did to the
contacts. The proper procedure at that point is to throw them away and
install new ones, unless you *know* they couldn't have been damaged.
The Albright contactors have a much more "industrial" look and pedigree.
But you can see the contacts, remove them, clean them, replace them as
needed. Seems a much more practical approach to me. Their voltage rating
might mean you need more than two, but I think the high voltage Kilovacs get
rather pricey too.
Once you have a Kilovac open under load and look at the cost of replacing
it, the Albrights might look like a very attractive alternative.
Chris
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In my previous life I made very simple device doing this.
From what I recall all I did I rectified the mains and connected
a low current 120VAC relay through 220V zener (collection of
several in series) to it.
With 120VAC in (170VDC rectified) relay stayed off because of
zeners; with 220/240V in (336VDC), 220V falls on zeners and remaining
116V applied to a relay turning it on.
Perhaps $15 worth of parts.
If you'll do this, size the power of zeners accordingly - they will
collectively dissipate 220V*coil_current watts.
Today I'd do it differently - instead of the relay I'd use
LED so a single zener can be small, low power. As a photo sensor
I'd use one of those dusk detectors sold in home depot, placing
LED right in front of it.
Victor
Cruising Equipment used to make a "backoff load manager" for marine
applications. I believe it had a sensor to see if the input voltage
was 240
or 120 VAC and set the load limit accordingly. It was intended to
limit the
current consumption to avoid burning up a genset or opening a dock
pedestal
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> I can build one of those! ... There are several other issues.
> One, the startup current can be high and it may need to know
> how much current it will take to start motor loads... startups
> won't trip a breaker but a power inverter/battery on the other
> hand usually have an absolute limit on how much power they can
> put out.
Yes; this is the fundamental difference between a generator and an
inverter. The rotating mass of the generator acts as a flywheel, so it
can supply very high peak currents for starting motors, etc.
The cheapest inverters have no significant energy storage; they have an
absolute peak current that can't be exceeded. The motor either won't
start, or starts very slowly. The advertised specs on these units are
also not very honest about what these units can supply for peak power.
The higher quality (and heavier and more expensive) inverters do have
some form of energy storage (big capacitors or transformers) to handle
the peak loads, and so are better at starting motors. But even they are
not as good as a real generator in this regard.
> Second, some loads, like my air conditioner, have digital controls
> which have to be manually turned on every time the power cuts out
> (bummer!).
Not only that, they draw parasitic AC load current all the time,
requiring that you power them even when not in use.
> And as noted there's a question of how it knows how much power is
> too much. Really it has to be manually set, and it needs to have
> an idea of what kinds of overloads are acceptable for brief periods.
This was the problem with the Cruising Equipment "Backoff" load manager.
It required a microcomputer to attempt to cope with the predictions, and
still had problems due to the large variety of loads people might plug
in. It's a simple problem if the loads are known and well-behaved; but
an intractible one if you expect to plug in any old AC device.
One additional trick Joe didn't mention. I think the "Backoff" also
looked at the AC line voltage, and shed loads as the AC line voltage
sagged. This was done to keep from overloading a generator or inverter,
as most of them sag significantly as you approach their full-load point.
--
If you would not be forgotten
When your body's dead and rotten
Then write of great deeds worth the reading
Or do the great deeds worth repeating
-- Ben Franklin, Poor Richard's Almanac
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems like a contactor is not really built by anyone at a good price for
an electric vehicle application. I've seen the kilovacs mentioned, as well
as albrights. These aren't anywhere close to the kind of contactor that an
electric vehicle with AGM batteries needs, though, right? Their ratings are
along the lines of 200A, but what is really needed is 2000-3000A, right?
Is this not technically feasible, or is there just not a market for it?
What kind of gotchas would one run in to if they tried making something like
this on their own?
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--- Begin Message ---
For those using ceramic (or other) heaters - why not use
heating element as a precharge resistor? It's already there
and sized right.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Lee Hart wrote:
Danny Miller wrote:
You can do either the back-to-back mosfets or a blocking diode
provided 0.3v (schottky) is not too large of a difference.
No, 0.3v is not too large; neither is 3v or even 30v. Here's the
situation. You have thousands of microfarads of capacitors inside the
controller. You have (say) a 120v battery pack with 0.1 ohm of
equivalent resistance. If you connect the two with a contactor, the
curent surge is I = 120v / 0.1 ohm = 1200 amps! This is very hard on the
contactor and capacitors.
If you connect a resistor across the contactor first, it slowly charges
the capacitors at a much lower, safer rate. For instance, the Curtis
1221 controllers have 220uF x 35 = 7700uf. They recommend a 250 ohm
resistor. The time constant is 0.0077f x 250ohm = 2 seconds. After 2
seconds, the capacitors will have charged up to 120v x 0.63 = 76v. Now
when you close the contactor, the peak current is (120v-76v) / 0.1ohm =
440 amps. Since this is a 500amp controller, your main contactor should
be rated to carry this peak current just fine.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi everyone,
The other day I went to the parts department at my nearest Jeep
dealership to get a part for my (ICE-ed) Jeep Wrangler. I'm paying for
it, and the head parts guy asks me "Hey, so what ever happened to that
old Cherokee of yours?". I was surprised he remembered me as it had been
well over a year since the last time I was there. He continued with "You
didn't get rid of it, did you?"
The stage was set... so as usual I nonchalantly delivered my
to-the-point message that "No, even better. I converted it to an
Electric Vehicle. No gas, no emissions, and I love it!"
I've found that around here people react in one of two ways to such an
announcement; they either ignore it completely or they begin repeating
what they just heard loudly to get the attention of others in the
general vicinity, so everyone will hear the 'crazy thing' they just
heard. This parts guy did the latter, and quite effectively got the
attention of the other five guys working at the parts desk. To my
surprise they all seemed very interested to hear about an Electric Jeep.
They wanted to see it and encouraged me to bring it by (I was driving my
Mazda that day). I told them I'd stop by tomorrow and left. I was
figuring that I'd stop by and show the Jeep to these guys for a few
minutes, maybe give a test ride, and be on my way...
I got to the Jeep dealership yesterday around 4:30pm and parked in the
lot outside of their garage (the parts department is located in a
"building" inside the far end of the service garage). I announced my
presence to the parts dept. and was told to just drive it right up close
to the parts desk. There weren't many cars being worked on at the time,
so the big garage was surprisingly quiet yet full of service technicians
just hanging around. Well, needless to say I got a _lot_ of stares as I
came driving in... my shiny Cherokee just gliding right through the
garage making no noise.
I pull up by the parts dept. "building", park, open the hood, open the
tailgate, and begin the process of showing my EV to some of the parts
dept. guys. I kid you not, within 10 seconds my Jeep and I were
completely surrounded by a sea of navy blue uniforms as (apparently)
everyone in the parts and service depts. came over to check out the
mysterious vehicle that had just parked at the end of their garage.
There were all the usual EV questions being thrown out, (not
surprisingly) many of them were more technical questions than I'm
usually asked. I did my best to answer each question before the next
one, and was just relieved that for once I didn't get any of those "wind
turbines/ generators on the wheels" type questions. After a solid 35
minutes of answering questions, the crowd began to disperse as these
people returned to work. A few of the parts dept. guys who were really
interested hung around. I offered to give some "test rides" and did.
First it was just me and the head parts dept. guy. As soon as we got in
the Jeep a crowd had once again formed around my Jeep as these people
scrambled over to see and hear my Cherokee depart. I turned my Jeep on,
hearing the slight whir of the vacuum pump and Zilla cooling fan then
the loud "clack" of the main contactor engaging and announced to the
crowd that I was going to move now (apparently these people didn't
believe me when I told them the Jeep was ready to move as some of them
were *still* standing in front of it!) The garage has a relatively long
drive out the back, so I took advantage of that and commanded the Zilla
to make me *move* off the line. Judging by the audible reactions, they
were really surprised/impressed.
I wasn't to familiar with all the streets around this dealership but
tried picking about a 1.5 mile route for the test ride. So I'm going
down the first street that I pick and all the sudden here's this really
*steep* hill out of nowhere. Probably the only significant hill in this
area and I just happen to pick the street that goes up it. To make
matters worse I had to almost come to a stop at the bottom of the hill
to let a car get through (cars parked on both sides of the road). I
floor the accelerator to start up this hill in 1st gear with no problem,
but notice the ammeters reading a solid 850 motor amps/400 battery amps.
I'm thinking to my self "$#@& this is _really_ going to heat up my
motor!!!" while simultaneously commenting to my test-rider "See,
Electric Vehicles do climb hills just fine" :-)
Well, we got back, my rider jumped out and began telling everyone how
cool and unbelievably quiet the vehicle was. I loaded up two more parts
dept. guys and headed off for test ride #2. Did mostly the same route,
but without the hill from hell, and returned. Now there were three
people railing about how neat riding in the EV was. Well, there were
more people who wanted test rides, but couldn't because they had to get
back to work. Though, I ended up hanging around and answering more
questions and talking about EVs with these guys for another 30 minutes
or so. Eventually I had to get going, realizing that it was 6:00 and I'd
just spent an hour and a half at the Jeep dealership... so I got going
(again, to a small crowd of people watching as I silently drove off in
my EV.)
I guess what makes this impromptu EVent stand out in my mind was that
here was a shop full of people working for a dealership for a major auto
manufacturer yet who were surprisingly open minded to and interested in
the idea of Electric Vehicles. Even more interesting, I thought, was
that a good number of them knew about the EV1, TEVan, and other
auto-industry built EVs, and on their own started wondering why the auto
makers are refusing to build EVs. Good food for thought... and I didn't
even have to prompt them!
So that's my latest EV awareness/publicity story. The lesson for me was
that sometimes the group that you think will be the least interested in
an EV will actually turn out to be the most interested in an EV. :-)
__ (Showing the world how to DriveEV,
| one shop full of people at a time.)
V
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
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STEVE CLUNN [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> I have one of these chargers and was wondering if it would
> run off dc, like 150v , it looks like a switcher, is there
> a web site for them.
Yes, 150VDC input is fine. Basically, it needs to be 120VDC or higher
otherwise the low line logic will prevent the charger from operating
(the low line logic threshold is about 85VAC, which correpsonds to
120VDC).
Yes, it is a switcher; universal input (85-265VAC, 45-65Hz), power
factor >0.98 (that's the officially quoted spec, but the actual power
factor is typically >0.99), efficiency ~90% (a bit higher on 240VAC
input, a bit lower at low line).
The website is <http://www.delta-q.com>, but there isn't really a whole
lot of technical information there. If you have any questions about
your charger, you are welcome to contact me offlist.
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Barber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> It seems like a contactor is not really built by anyone at a
> good price for an electric vehicle application. I've seen
> the kilovacs mentioned, as well as albrights. These aren't
> anywhere close to the kind of contactor that an electric
> vehicle with AGM batteries needs, though, right? Their
> ratings are along the lines of 200A, but what is really
> needed is 2000-3000A, right?
The Kilovacs are actually quite a good match for a vehicle with AGM
batteries.
Take the EV250 model, for instance: it is rated 400A carry (continuous,
500A for 6.5min), 2500A interrupt @ 320VDC.
It gets a little hairier when one starts buddy-pairing (or
buddy-tripletting) AGMs since the potential short circuit current can
get crazy.
I believe the trick is to pair the contactor(s) with a DC-rated breaker
whose trip curve is such that it will open before the contactor fails.
DC-rated breakers typically have interrupt ratings of at least 10,000A.
As has been recently discussed, the main drawback to the Kilovac
contactors is that they are sealed, non-servicable units while the
Albrights are open frame-style units that can be inspected and have
their contacts or coils replaced as required.
Cheers,
Roger.
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--- Begin Message ---
My all electric home is equipped with a "Load Controller". The
controller has small CT's on the larger load circuits such as the
AC/Heat Pump, Dryer, Pool Pump, Pool Heater and the Water Heater. These
circuits have small relays controlling them. It is user programmable to
shed the loads in a prewired order and will shed ALL the loads if the
user programmable maximum KW set point is reached in less than a 15
minute period. It does not shut down but will cycle the AC/Heat Pump on
and off in order to keep the max KW load under this setpoint.
It certainly would be easy to sense the voltage but without a load I
don't see how it would determine the ampacity of the current limiting
device on a normal circuit.
The TEVan determines the charge rate by the configuration of the 7-pin
plug to the charger. 20 or 40 amp charge rate at 120, 230 or 220 three
phase but it will trip a 30A 230V breaker if on the 40A configured cord.
The priority of the loads could be Freezer, Air conditioner, heater, water
heater, battery charger, lighting in any order. The variable load could be
the water heater, battery charger or other load that could operate from a
triac controlled dimmer type control.
I am able to override the controller but have no control over their load.
The thought was to allow the customer to prioritize what load to pull down
first, second, third, etc. and have the variable take up the slack. In the
above priority, the freezer would get cold until the thermostat kicked it
off, then the AC would run until the thermostat turned it off, then the
heater would run if it got too cold, and any excess breaker capacity would
be diverted into the battery pack or the water heater. When all the
appliances, where at low power from the thermostats turning them off or the
batteries were charged, the line current to the boat would then drop below
the setting. If any of the systems came back on line, the manager would shed
the lower priority loads to meet that need and then bring them back on line
as the current became available.
I don't know how many were sold or if they are still available.
I thought they were available from Cruising Systems
http://www.google.com/local?hl=en&lr=&q=cruising-systems&near=Seattle,+WA&sa=X&oi=locald&radius=0.0&latlng=47606389,-122330833,3241428486276024769
but I no longer see any reference to it on the web.
The system did not determine how much draw from the utility. Instead, it
would regulate the onboard systems to draw a user set current from the
utility.
Mine just uses a pair of CT's for the controller that are ahead of the
meter. The power company bills me for my Max KW in a 15 minute period in
the month. This allows the Load Controller to sense the max load and
shed some load before the 15 minute period is up. But..if I use more
than the set point with other non-controlled loads then my Max KW goes
higher than my set point.
I also have a time of use rate that discounts even more for electricity
used between 9Pm and 9Am and weekends.
I tell people how much it costs to charge my EV and they don't believe
me, so I cheat and tell them how much I pay for my electricity for the
whole month day or night divided by the KWh that I used for charging and
they are impressed. They simply don't believe that I can get 185 miles
in the winter for the $2.37 that they pay for a gallon of gasoline.
Jim - In the valley of the SUN
93 Dodge TEVan
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Nick Viera wrote:
> I guess what makes this impromptu EVent stand out in my mind was that
> here was a shop full of people working for a dealership for a major auto
> manufacturer yet who were surprisingly open minded to and interested in
> the idea of Electric Vehicles.
They probably liked the idea of not having to work on the typical
greasy inline 6 anymore. :)
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--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Aug 2005 at 12:52, Lee Hart wrote:
> Not quite. You'll note that *all* purpose-built EVs are direct drive,
> even those with series motors.
Didn't the Chrysler TeVan use a 2-speed transaxle? For that matter, the
Comuta-Vans used a moldy old 3-speed Borg Warner, if I'm not mistaken.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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-----Original Message-----
From: Stu or Jan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:37 AM
To: '[email protected]'
Subject: RE: New EV - Question
Peter,
Have you considered 3 wheels?
1> 3 wheelers are classified as motorcycles in most states. Even Buicks,
etc.
2> No transaxle needed.
3> Less weight.
4> Simpler to hybridize using jackshaft to rear chain sprocket.
stU
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 7:33 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: New EV - Question
Hello all,
I have been following the group for a few years, and finally got a chassis
to start my EV ...
a smart car ... appx 1000 lbs (without engine/transmission)..
Here are my specs
Desired range 30-40 miles (all basically city driving)
Desired Top speed 60 (or at least 50) or better
Desired Acceleration ... as long as it moves
Original engine was 50 hp (or 60 hp).
If I use the UVE calculator (hempev) starting with CRX at same weight, E-Tek
motor, and the D750, it appears that max continous speed should be ~55-57 (8
hp continuous available), decent range using a tranmission.
If I switch to the A89, hp is more than enough, range becomes marginal (30+
at 40 mph).
Another thought is that the weight loaded (appx 1500-1700) is about the same
as the GEM NEV (loaded). Maybe I could use that transaxle with a bigger
motor/gearing (taller tires than the GEM) to obtain the same performance.
Other recommended motors?
Recommendations, experiences with either approaches, or general comments?
Thanks,
Peter
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--- Begin Message ---
On 11 Aug 2005 at 13:05, Bob Bath wrote:
> Anyone else have this up and working as a backup
> power source?
Tom Hudson does this with his 156v Force.
The problem is that high voltage inverters are hard to find, and because
they're so scarce, they're usually dauntingly expensive.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
I'm afraid I can't answer your question, but I'm extremely interested in your
project. I was thinking about doing a 300zx or maybe a 240sx. How much weight
were you able to pull out of your Z? I had found that a '95 has a curb weight
of around 3200 - 3300 (300Z) and the 240sx is about 2650. But the 300z had a 6
cyl ICE while the 240 is a 4.
I want to pack it full of orbitals or optimas (25 would be great) and I'm
concerned about the total weight and what that'll do to acceleration.
Thanks for any insight you can give me!
--Patrick
________________________________
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Jeff Shanab
Sent: Fri 8/12/2005 2:03 AM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Conversion Details
I am converting a 300zx, hopeing to get 25 orbitals in it. I need help
with some of the details.
I have a PFC20+, the warp 9 is installed, and the controller arrives today.
What should I use for main contactors, the current rateing on the ev200
sounds too lightweight, is a ev250 big enough?
I have fuses.
I need a heater core, but with a 300V system, do I need a controller or
I could use [EMAIL PROTECTED] and 156V in series? too much heat? ( i live in
Fresno California, there are days where heat is nice, but mainly we need
heat for defroster).
I need motor and belts or individual motors to drive AC, Vacuum, and
Power steering.(which is better serpentine belt vs individual motors?)
Anderson connectors and opertunity adapter
angle iron,cables,emeter,shunt
dc-dc converter and aux battery.
what have I forgot.?
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Subject: RE: Conversion Details
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Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:50:04 -0500
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From: "Patrick Plummer--
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:09:23 -0400
MIME-Version: 1.0
Subject: Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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On 12 Aug 2005 at 11:40, Roland Wiench wrote:
> Remember that you cannot use the 12 volt battery at
> the same time you are charging it.
I've always done that. Am I breaking the law or something? Are only ICEs
allowed to use their 12v batteries while charging them?
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:30:15 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: A new member waves hello
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Everybody:
After looking around for quite some time, I was finally able to get my
first EV. While it is an old Nissan PickUp conversion with Prestolite
engine, it runs great and it helps me to understand the 'workings' of
electric vehicles and we (my husband and I) are going to convert our very
own truck in autumn.
I already added a ice/c .. an air conditioner based on a cooler filled
with ice cubes, a transmission oil cooler plumped into the ventilation
system and hoses circulating ice water around. The air coming out of the
vents is about 10 to 15 degrees cooler than ambient but the ice cubes are
melting very rapidly. So - the system works, costs were about 100$ but ice
is expensive.
Now my question: I am planning to do a conversion based on a pick up
truck. I am shooting for an S-10 but should I get a pre-94 or a newer
model? Am I going to be able to disconnect power steering and still
control the truck?
Thanks and should you be in the Bay City, Tx or Blessing, Tx area you are
welcome to charge up here.
Michaela
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 14:34:33 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: Re: Powering refridgerator off of HV traction pack
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I just purchased an Exeltech DC to AC inverter that accepts 120-140 VDC
input and delivers approx. 1000W @ 112 Volts ac.
Michaela
> My understanding is that the fridge is 6A, so 720
> watts, with a major surge as the compressor & motor
> turn on. The DCDC is 300 watts.
> While I'll grant that the fridge is not on all the
> time, I'd be concerned about the wear and tear on both
> the inverter, pulling so much from a 12V, and also the
> DCDC, as it works to keep the battery topped off.
> But then, I'm not an EE.
>
> --- Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Why not power the inverter from the Aux battery and
>> let the dc-dc make
>> the transition form pack voltage to 12Volts. The
>> emeter will now give
>> you a fuel gauge and the batteries will stay
>> balanced. It is a little
>> wastefull converting so much, I wonder if the
>> innards in the inverters
>> do a boost to a high voltage dc buss before
>> switching it down and out as
>> AC, If so, tapping into the DC buss (and
>> disconnecting the primary
>> drive) would be a significant improvement.
>>
>>
>
>
> '92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
> ____
> __/__|__\ __
> =D-------/ - - \
> 'O'-----'O'-'
> Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
> wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
>
>
>
> ____________________________________________________
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
>
>
From: Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Auto-determination of AC current available
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:34:13 -0400
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
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On Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:28:44 -0000, "acid_lead" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>For EV opportunity charging, you still don't know what other loads are
>on the breaker, and that could change after you set something manually.
>
>If a circuit becomes overloaded, does the voltage drop measurably
>prior to the breaker opening? What would it take to sense that?
No, the voltage doesn't drop perceptibly, assuming the source is
"hard". Consider your home breaker panel that has a 200 amp rating.
The pole pig and incoming power drop can probably feed at least 5k
amps and maybe 10k amps, depending on the size of the pig. The
breaker is rated to interrupt that much current. A 30 amp breaker
will trip after awhile at 35 amps or more. That is only a little more
than 10% of the panel capacity and a tiny fraction of the capability
of the distribution system.
There will be some small voltage drop with load but that will be
primary in the branch wiring to the outlet. There really isn't any
practical and generalized way to look upstream to see what is
available.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 15:40:30 -0500
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FW: New EV - Question
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A 3-wheeler would also allow you to use a wheel motor, much more
reliable and smaller than an external chain drive motor and lighter
overall but of course the options in wheel motors are limited (I have no
idea what is available). Turning a wheel motor, even 90 deg to do a
show-off parallel parking move, is no problem.
Danny
Stu or Jan wrote:
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Stu or Jan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 9:37 AM
>To: '[email protected]'
>Subject: RE: New EV - Question
>
>Peter,
>
>Have you considered 3 wheels?
>
>1> 3 wheelers are classified as motorcycles in most states. Even Buicks,
>etc.
>
>2> No transaxle needed.
>
>3> Less weight.
>
>4> Simpler to hybridize using jackshaft to rear chain sprocket.
>
>stU
>
>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 13:54:22 -0700
From: Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FW: New EV - Question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
Danny Miller wrote:
> A 3-wheeler would also allow you to use a wheel motor, much more
> reliable and smaller than an external chain drive motor and lighter
> overall but of course the options in wheel motors are limited (I have no
> idea what is available).
You will be hard pressed to find suitable wheel (hub) motor.
BTW, in general 4 (or 6 or any) wheel vehicle allow use of a
hub motor(s) just like 3 or 2 wheel one.
Your statement sort of implies that 3 wheeler allows use something that,
say, 4 wheeler isn't allowed (whether it will be worthwile is different
issue).
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri, 12 Aug 2005 16:12:59 -0500
From: Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
MIME-Version: 1.0
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: FW: New EV - Question
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed
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I can dream, can't I? Besides, a small enough vehicle, more like a
motorcycle, might be able to find an acceptable wheel motor.
Sure a vehicle can be done with more wheel motors. The control system
will need to get them running together at the same speed for
straight-line use but also allow/create an appropriate differential for
turning. Of course if done really high-tech being able to accelerate or
brake 2 or 4 wheels independently can create superb stability but a
custom job is more likely to see more problems than benefits.
Danny
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> You will be hard pressed to find suitable wheel (hub) motor.
> BTW, in general 4 (or 6 or any) wheel vehicle allow use of a
> hub motor(s) just like 3 or 2 wheel one.
>
> Your statement sort of implies that 3 wheeler allows use something that,
> say, 4 wheeler isn't allowed (whether it will be worthwile is
> different issue).
--- End Message ---
