EV Digest 4592
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Review My Plans?
by "Peter VanDerWal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by Nick Austin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: What motor?
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Putting breaker under the radio
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re: Alternative
batteries
by "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Data Logger
by "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: Data Logger
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Alltrax Controller
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Wire size and EV250-2A
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Putting breaker under the radio
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Did YOU HEAR - SOV's in the HOV if they are Hi-Milage Hybrids ?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
by "Brad Jensen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Tax credit changing for Hybrids, EV's, RE in new energy bill Re: HOV
if they are Hi-Milage Hybrids ?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re: Alternative
batteries
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
by Tom Hudson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: OT -- Re: EAA & Re: LA Times 8/16/05 article on EVs. (Long)
by "Chuck Hays" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
As a TS Li-Ion (30x200ah) user for two years I am very happy.
Range went from a pb cell knackering 30 miles to 75+ with relative ease.
Possibly I could manage 100 if I tickled it along like Light foot Joe!
I would recommend them to ev users now. I would never go pb again unless I
was drag racing, which i'm not. They are also probably better now than when
I bought mine as part of the UK 2003 bulk purchase.
They are actually fairly simple to manage with stock components.
Cedric Lynch of Lynch Motors fame makes a nice idiot proof, simple and cheap
analogue Li-Ion cell protector which interfaces with most standard ev
controllers and chargers.
With some thermal management they give excellent range and reasonable
performance for my town EV.
Luckily I bought mine when they were $1.00 per ah.
Regards
Peter
www.solarvan.co.uk
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> So I've put some thoughts on paper as to what I want in my conversion -
> this is what I have so far:
> -Dodge Ram 1500 or Ford F-150
> -Toneau cover, lowered, lightweight hood, etc (for lowering drag)
> -Remove all ICE components
> -Solectria AC55 bolted directly to the differential (~10:1 ratio with
> custom gears)
> -Solectria UMOC445 controller w/regen
> -PFC-30 or 50 charger
> -Solectria 13.2v DC/DC converter
> -Power brake/steering assist
> -Homebuilt peltier A/C
Ok, other folks have already pointed out that the Peltier's aren't going
to work.
What I'm wondering is why have you selected such an enormous incredibly
heavy vehicle to convert?
I believe you mentioned a quad cab, so you are are talking about a vehicle
with a pre-conversion curb weight of over 5,000 lbs. After removing the
ICE and lightening the vehicle, you might get it down to 4,000 lbs.
Then you want to add 312V worth of 8V batteries, that's about 2,500 lbs.
Add at least another 500 lbs for motor, controller, battery racks, cables,
etc. etc. etc.
So now yo have a vehicle that weighs in at 7,000 lbs....with nobody in it.
The AC55 produces a maximum of 240 NM of torque, after the 10:1 rear end,
you end up with a maximum rear wheel torque of about 500 ft lbs.
I think your hil climbing ability will be limited to speed bumps...and
even then you'll need to take a run at them.
I might be wrong about this, but I don't think so.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Thu, Aug 18, 2005 at 08:53:42AM +0100, Peter Perkins wrote:
> As a TS Li-Ion (30x200ah) user for two years I am very happy.
<..snip..>
> Luckily I bought mine when they were $1.00 per ah.
You bought 30 200ah cells for $6000?
Wow, I wish I was you right about now :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 03:38 PM 17/08/05 -0700, Pascal wrote:
Hi all,
My name is Pascal, I am from The Netherlands, since a month or so I have
been reading the mails from this list because I am interested in an
Electric vehicle for commuting.
Although I have plans for an electric UrbaCar from mr. R. Q. Riley
(www.rqriley.com) I was wondering what kind of engine I can use instead of
the mentioned Jack & Heinz #G23 aircraft generator. (or the General
Electric CM-77)
It seems I can't find any of those on the Internet, so any tip or
suggestion would be appreciated.
Hi Pascal (and all)
Welcome to the EV discussion list. I think that the motors mentioned date
from second world war vintage surplus equipment, although I am by no means
certain of that. I assume that the UrbaCar is less than 1000kg? If so there
are many motor choices that are suitable to be used.
The main things that you need to consider is how fast and how far do you
want to go? If you do not need to go too fast (say, no more than 100km/h)
and you do not need too much power (no long hill climbs or racing-type
acceleration) there are many motors you could use.
If you check around your local industrial salvage yards you may well find a
motor out of a forklift or airport/factory vehicle that you could use. A
mitsubishi Colt was converted in Western Australia that used an ex-forklift
series-wound motor - 72V 6.5hp, being used at 120 volts. The vehicle had so
much power it could spin the wheels in 5th gear, but they could not go over
something like 90km/h. They chose to change the motor for an "advanced DC"
brand motor, but they could have raised the battery voltage or used field
weakening to increase the motor maximum RPMs.
The vehicle that I am converting (a Daihatsu cab/chassis truck) has a
target mass of 1000kg, with 480kg of that in batteries. The motor is a
modified 48V 4.5hp ex-forklift motor that I expect to get adequate
performance from for around town use.
If you need to get on with your build to a tight scedule, then purchacing a
new motor from Warfield, advanced DC, Kostov, etc. early in the project is
probably appropriate, but if your schedule is more flexible, then shopping
around for a used industrial motor can save you a significant amount of
money. My choice was to spend much less on the motor, and more on the
controller (a Zilla controller from Otmar) to look after it. This will
allow me to change motors in the future and reprogram the controller to
suitable parameters for the motor being used.
The DC verses AC debate is one that rears up from time to time, but in
short form the pros and cons are as follows:
DC, pros: Lower voltage battery pack (can be used with lower cost wet cells
more easily), higher low RPM torque, motors available from a wide variety
of sources unrelated to the controller manufacturer, able to do a
significantly lower cost system than generally available AC components.
Cons: Usually no regenerative braking, often simpler control methodology,
failure mode can be full power on, lower maximum RPM without risk to the
motor, often need to do more yourself to make up a system (adding external
blower to the motor for an example).
AC, pros: Nicer control structure, regenerative braking is usually
integrated, higher RPM means usualy single speed gearbox can be used,
auxiliary items (DC converter etc) usually built in, usually longer
guarantee (I think Siemens is 10 years), fail full-on very rare. Cons:
lower acceleration rate, lower initial (low rpm) torque, motor and
controller integrated as a package (single supplier, no mix-and-match),
higher voltage (usually means sealed batteries and battery management
systems, so higher cost).
Surplus Siemens systems (AC) are readily available in Europe. Kostov motors
come from (I think) Bulgaria. Many people on this list are in the USA,
advice that they can give on good sources for them may not be appropriate
for you. If you decide on DC I would reccommend that you get a Zilla
controller, since it seems to be the most programmable and reliable DC
motor controller available anywhere, and is designed specifically for
on-road electric vehicles.
If you can give more information on the vehicle you are proposing, the use
you are expecting to require the vehicle for (range, maximum speed and
acceleration expectations) then we may be able to offer more appropriate
advice than this general waffle that I have made today.
regards
James Massey
Launceston, Tasmania, Australia
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/18/05, Joe Strubhar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Lawrence, I really don't think that putting a breaker with the HV wiring in
> the passenger compartment is a bad idea - might be if you had 250+ volts,
> but not very many conversions are going to go that high.
>
>
> I have mine mounted just under the dash in the center, and I don't think
> that it is a serious hazard at all - I'm just an electrical contractor, what
> do I know, right?
Most "factory built" designs keep the HV out of the passenger
compartment because they're worried about what might happen in the
event of a bad enough crash. A high power electrical fire on the
outside is bad enough, but you really wouldn't want one under the dash
if your legs are stuck there and you can't get the door open, say.
Meter wires are a safe enough from that point of view if they're
properly fused, but there's still opportunity for an electric shock if
someone unfamiliar with the vehicle is working on it.
So I don't think it's a bad general rule to keep HV wiring out of the cabin.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I picked up a Kilovac Czonka II relay on eBay for $11 (250A 320V). It says
"pre-production" on it. It also says "use with external economizer". Who
knows what an "external economizer" is, and how to build one? And, do you
know where to get the odd connector used for the coil (I was able to shave
down a Molex to make it work, but would like to get the correct connector
eventually)?
Thanks,
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Welcome, Noel - anything you want to ask or post about the last of your 3
passions is welcome on this list. But the first 2 we don't want to hear
about!!!!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re: Alternative
batteries
> Just wanted to add that this is not an attack on you Victor (I greatly
> respect your posts, projects and parts) but frustration with a culture
> that seems hecka-bent on destroying this planet.
>
> I have three passions in life, my wife, helping in some small way to
> save this planet before the rapidly approaching "tipping point" and
> building an EV.
>
> Noel
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:03 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re:
> > Alternative batteries
> >
> > Of course Victor, I've had three SUV's and understand the culture.
> > However, I woke up and smelled the dirty air, drank the dirty
> > water, and got burned by the expanding ozone holes.
> >
> > Consumer demand for SUV's are one of the reasons why our gas
> > mileage in the US averages a flat lined 21 mpg. It's one of
> > the reasons why the US imports almost 60% of our Oil and uses
> > 25% of the rapidly reducing global supply. Bloated oil
> > consumption feeds the massive oil companies (Exxon record 11B
> > profit 1/4 05) that influences public policy at all levels to
> > refute Global Warming, fight successive wars for the
> > remaining oil (Iran oil is next), crush EV's and fund terrorists.
> >
> > I don't like it that "it's cool" for single people and two
> > person families who have no need for a Tahoe, Expedition or
> > Hummer to feel the need to drive one around.
> >
> > I live in this country and on this planet and when I make fun
> > of SUV drivers it's one way of expressing my anger at the US
> > consumption culture that is ruining this planet.
> >
> > America needs to wake up before it's too late.
> >
> > My two cents.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:18 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
> > >
> > > This is a matter of taste, there is no "right" or "wrong" here.
> > > Different people likes different cars, just like different
> > colors of
> > > cars.
> > >
> > > Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> > > > Make it Big, make it Sexy, make it an EV and put in a
> > > loudspeaker to
> > > > make it rumble!
> > >
> > > The way you described, I probably won't want to sit in it,
> > EV or not.
> > > But I'm sure it will appeal to some.
> > >
> > > It's like wonderful Tango - really outstanding (spec wise) vehicle
> > > which I won't consider having even for free because it is butt ugly
> > > looking (to me). The fact that it may one day do 0-60 in
> > less than one
> > > second or its stereo's power blows out owner's and
> > passengers' brails
> > > is totally irrelevant - if I don't drive it, why do I care?
> > >
> > > But many get a kick out of it, and there is nothing wrong
> > with this -
> > > just a matter of taste.
> > >
> > > I wish Rick and Jerry luck - the more EVs on the road - the
> > better off
> > > we all are.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Victor
> > > '91 ACRX - something different
> > >
> > >
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> > privileged information. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
> > e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
> > distribution or use of this information by a person other
> > than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
> >
> >
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi all,
I am wanting to use a data logger in my electric car so that i can data log
all the parameters. I am using an Alltraax 7245 controller with serial port.
However, does anyone know one that can also measure the speed,
acceleartion??? as well. I like the emeter or Link 10 but its hard to locate
one in Australia.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Robert, it is hard to beat the Link 10 with rs232 (as long as it is
installed properly). From its basic information you can determine speed,
energy usage, battery state and acceleration. Tie it together with data
from a GPS and you are ready to go. I am sure one of the EV places (CanEV,
EVParts, etc.) would be happy to send one to you in AU.
Another option is the GTech Force. It is "the poor mans" race car data
logger. It measures speed acceleration, calculates horse power etc. It has
**no** facility for measuring the pack power as it is made for ICE vehicles.
Also, it may not have all its functionality as it requires an ignition
signal from the spark plug.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Robert Chew
Sent: August 18, 2005 6:17 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Data Logger
Hi all,
I am wanting to use a data logger in my electric car so that i can data log
all the parameters. I am using an Alltraax 7245 controller with serial port.
However, does anyone know one that can also measure the speed,
acceleartion??? as well. I like the emeter or Link 10 but its hard to locate
one in Australia.
Cheers
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I spoke with the builder of a Buick and a Fox 3 wheel 'motorcycle'. They
were driven from FL to Saint Louis, MO and back with no problems.
By reducing the cars to 3 wheelers, they become instant motorcycles in FL.
In these conversions, the rear wheel was placed in a wheel well in line with
the rear wheels which were removed.
This got me to thinking. What if the rear wheel was placed behind the car
in the 5th wheel track instrument position?
You hang the wheel and your motor back there and place some batteries in the
trunk and presto! a hybrid motorcycle.
This can be done with any FWD car.
BTW The prime reason for converting the Buick to a motorcycle was to avoid
$2,800 in annual insurance.
There are no insurance requirements for motorcycles.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The US EV- 145's are $127 each in Hayward California.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
HI all,
The batteries i am using for my car is Trojan SCS225 at $154 +gst aussie
dollars, pretty cheap. but if you plan to do the conversion for about 2000
us dollars, it might be running a bit tight. The conversion would be good,
howeve i think you have to keep the weight down. In the ford festiva, the
car itself weighs a fair bit, well prob 800-900kg. My car only weighs 500
kg or a little less after the stripdown. Use 12 volt batteries as they
would keep the weight down and yeah 50 DOD is good to aim for.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My EV250-2A kilovac contactor arrived and man it is compact. Hard to
believe the specs. I haven't bought lugs for my 2/0 cable yet but it
seems like the bolts are awfully small on the kilovac. Do I need special
logs with a small hole to get more contact area?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I think the concern is shearing in an accident. You are drilling a hole in
thin metal. That could act as a knife in a wreck. If both holes collapsed
it could cut both cables and connect a very hot circuit. Welding would take
place. However I like your idea. LR.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Strubhar" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 7:49 PM
Subject: Re: Putting breaker under the radio
Lawrence, I really don't think that putting a breaker with the HV wiring
in
the passenger compartment is a bad idea - might be if you had 250+ volts,
but not very many conversions are going to go that high.
I have mine mounted just under the dash in the center, and I don't think
that it is a serious hazard at all - I'm just an electrical contractor,
what
do I know, right?
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:16 PM
Subject: Re: Putting breaker under the radio
Gravity be damned I'm going to mount the Breaker somhow either above or
below the floor of my car. Locations that it will fit: On or under the
hump in the back seat feet area. On the floor
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/418f.jpg you can see to lines of white
next
to the stick shift. That installation did have the wires comming up for
about an inch in four places. Next to that under the shifter but in the
hump and protected from scraping. I would have to construct a box to
protect it from splash. What do you guys think? Lawrence Rhodes......
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 3:35 PM
Subject: Re: Putting breaker under the radio
> On 17 Aug 2005 at 14:49, David (Battery Boy) Hawkins wrote:
>
>> I mounted my breaker on the control board under the hood ...
>
> The problem with that is that it exposes the breaker to road spray and
> dirt,
> unless it's encased in a box or something. I'm concerned about this.
> Also,
> what if the cable breaks in an emergency?
>
> I like to mount the main breaker under the seat and bring the hv wiring
up
> through the floorpan. That's not really a good strategy because it
still
> puts the hv wiring inside the passenger compartment, even if it's just
> a
> couple of feet.
>
> I don't have a good answer for this, but I definitely don't like under
the
> hood and I'm uneasy about mechanical cable connections. Other
> thoughts?
> Anybody?
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I can understand why. Motorcycles are allowed and I get better mileage than
a Harley with my Civic VX. I think it will be allowed. ULEV 47 /56mpg.
LR>...........It it goes through all my cars will qualify for the carpool
lane solo. Only one is gas.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR" <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:26 PM
Subject: Did YOU HEAR - SOV's in the HOV if they are Hi-Milage Hybrids ?
Yes, as heard on NPR, this PM. California has legalized Hi-Milage
Hybrids, ( that is Insights, Prius's and Civic's ) in the HOV lanes, with
or without more than ONE PERSON. ( but the New Accord hybrids, and
Higlanders, and Lexuxxxuxuxux.... do not make the CUT )
They went on to say, it is part of the new Energy Bill, that allows states
to legalize this, without jeopardizing their Fed. highway Dollars.
--
Steven S. Lough, Pres.
Seattle EV Association
6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
Seattle, WA 98115-7230
Day: 206 850-8535
Eve: 206 524-1351
e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
web: http://www.seattleeva.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello to All,
Rick Barnes wrote:
I picked up a Kilovac Czonka II relay on eBay for $11 (250A 320V). It says
"pre-production" on it.
Man, you stole that one! I have three of them...great contactor!
It also says "use with external economizer". Who
knows what an "external economizer" is, and how to build one?
Most of the Czonka II contactors came with a built-in coil economizer.
The economizer is a circuit that allows the contactor's coil to be hit
with the full voltage and current it needs to initially pull in fast and
hard, say 4-5 amps @ 12V, then it ramps the current way down to
something like an amp or so, just enough to hold the contacts closed.
This of course, reduces the current drawn by the coil, and, it helps
keep that coil cool and promotes longer coil life.
You can build your own external economizer. All it takes, is a series
resistor in line with an electrolytic capacitor. The resistor fills up
the cap, so when you first engage the coil you get full current and
voltage from the immediate discharge of the cap into the coil to bang
the contacts closed...then as the cap bleeds down, the coil is left to
run off the reduced current and voltage through the resistor.
And, do you
know where to get the odd connector used for the coil (I was able to shave
down a Molex to make it work, but would like to get the correct connector
eventually)?
It's called a Deutsch connector. Look them up on the web, or get in
touch with Kilovac.
See Ya....John Wayland
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought of something similar. I was thinking of taking the back end of a
automatic diesel vanagon and cutting it down until you just have the rear
wheels, the engine, and the transmission. Then you weld on the front fork
and front wheel of a motorcycle to create your trike. The front fork would
also serve as a fifth wheel connection (or simply a trailer hitch
connection) that you could hook into the bed of your Ranger or S-10 EV as a
pusher trailer. The whole thing would be drive-by-wire if it was being used
as a trike or as a pusher trailer (you would just run the wires up into the
cab of the truck). You could use the device as a pusher trailer until you
get where you were going, the detach it and put the wheel back on so you
would have two vehicles. As a diesel vanagon, you could also convert your
trike to run on biodiesel/cooking grease.
I have the truck, still looking for the vanagon. Still need to design the
fifth wheel connector so that it could also work as the connector to the
fork of the trike and design the drive-by-wire system.
Has anybody already done this?
-- Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu or Jan
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2005 8:44 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Almost instant Geo motorcycle hybrid conversion.
I spoke with the builder of a Buick and a Fox 3 wheel 'motorcycle'. They
were driven from FL to Saint Louis, MO and back with no problems.
By reducing the cars to 3 wheelers, they become instant motorcycles in FL.
In these conversions, the rear wheel was placed in a wheel well in line with
the rear wheels which were removed.
This got me to thinking. What if the rear wheel was placed behind the car
in the 5th wheel track instrument position?
You hang the wheel and your motor back there and place some batteries in the
trunk and presto! a hybrid motorcycle.
This can be done with any FWD car.
BTW The prime reason for converting the Buick to a motorcycle was to avoid
$2,800 in annual insurance.
There are no insurance requirements for motorcycles.
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/18/05, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You can build your own external economizer. All it takes, is a series
> resistor in line with an electrolytic capacitor. The resistor fills up
> the cap, so when you first engage the coil you get full current and
> voltage from the immediate discharge of the cap into the coil to bang
> the contacts closed...then as the cap bleeds down, the coil is left to
> run off the reduced current and voltage through the resistor.
Whenever I've done this, I put the capacitor in parallel with a
resistor, and those two components in series with the coil. The
capacitor is intially discharged, so when power is applied to the
circuit, a high current flows to pull the solenoid in, until the
capacitor is charged up. Then, to hold the solenoid in, the resistor
in parallel is chosen so that a suitable current still flows.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Lawrence, Steve and All,
Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I can understand why. Motorcycles are allowed and I get better mileage than
a Harley with my Civic VX. I think it will be allowed. ULEV 47 /56mpg.
LR>...........It it goes through all my cars will qualify for the carpool
lane solo. Only one is gas.
The new energy bill, while very bad in many ways giving hugh subsidies to
oil, coal companies that don't need it, has some forward thinking componants.
The new tax credits are based on mileage so those who buy the hybrids ones
that just use the E motors as superchargers instead of for increasing mileage
are cut out of most of the tax credits too getting little. While those with
high mileage that use smaller engines and bigger e-motors realitively get much
larger credits.
And apparently are using the same mileage standard for HOV lanes. As more
is learned what the energy bill really is at least a small part of it will take
us to where we need to be.
So those of you buying Hybrid SUV's, sportscars should check this out as
your tax credit will be very small like $300 and one getting a plug in Hybrid
when available will get it seems about $4k tax credit. If the Prius plug in
project can get certified, it will have a nice tax credit to help defrey the
cost.
Hopefully someone who understands this will let us know what's going on
exactly. It also has some good things, tax credits of about 30% on most RE,
conservation, home energy reduction, home net metering mandatory for utilities,
ect. Luckily for me new hydro is included so I can charge my and many others
EV's.
I'm not sure EV's get anything so far sadly. Hopefully it is buried in
it somewhere in the 1700+ pages.
Jerry Dycus
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steven Lough"
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List RCVR"
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 9:26 PM
Subject: Did YOU HEAR - SOV's in the HOV if they are Hi-Milage Hybrids ?
> Yes, as heard on NPR, this PM. California has legalized Hi-Milage
> Hybrids, ( that is Insights, Prius's and Civic's ) in the HOV lanes, with
> or without more than ONE PERSON. ( but the New Accord hybrids, and
> Higlanders, and Lexuxxxuxuxux.... do not make the CUT )
>
> They went on to say, it is part of the new Energy Bill, that allows states
> to legalize this, without jeopardizing their Fed. highway Dollars.
> --
> Steven S. Lough, Pres.
> Seattle EV Association
> 6021 32nd Ave. N.E.
> Seattle, WA 98115-7230
> Day: 206 850-8535
> Eve: 206 524-1351
> e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> web: http://www.seattleeva.org
>
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
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Hi guys, my first post to this group and im very much a newbie to EV
cars and conversions. Im very much planning on starting one soon and ive
been soaking up every bit of information i can find online. I live in
maine and trying to find a good donor vehicle right now. Im in contact
with two different people about cars that i can buy on the cheap. One is
a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am and the other is a 95 Chevy S-10.
Any problems with converting either of these two vehicles. Ill be
talking to you all very much soon as i get deeper :)))))))))))))))) I
cant wait...
Cwarman
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Wilco!
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Joe Strubhar
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 6:20 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re:
Alternative batteries
Welcome, Noel - anything you want to ask or post about the last of your
3 passions is welcome on this list. But the first 2 we don't want to
hear about!!!!!
Joseph H. Strubhar
E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web: www.gremcoinc.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:42 PM
Subject: RE: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re:
Alternative batteries
> Just wanted to add that this is not an attack on you Victor (I greatly
> respect your posts, projects and parts) but frustration with a culture
> that seems hecka-bent on destroying this planet.
>
> I have three passions in life, my wife, helping in some small way to
> save this planet before the rapidly approaching "tipping point" and
> building an EV.
>
> Noel
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:03 PM
> > To: [email protected]
> > Subject: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re:
> > Alternative batteries
> >
> > Of course Victor, I've had three SUV's and understand the culture.
> > However, I woke up and smelled the dirty air, drank the dirty
> > water, and got burned by the expanding ozone holes.
> >
> > Consumer demand for SUV's are one of the reasons why our gas
> > mileage in the US averages a flat lined 21 mpg. It's one of
> > the reasons why the US imports almost 60% of our Oil and uses
> > 25% of the rapidly reducing global supply. Bloated oil
> > consumption feeds the massive oil companies (Exxon record 11B
> > profit 1/4 05) that influences public policy at all levels to
> > refute Global Warming, fight successive wars for the
> > remaining oil (Iran oil is next), crush EV's and fund terrorists.
> >
> > I don't like it that "it's cool" for single people and two
> > person families who have no need for a Tahoe, Expedition or
> > Hummer to feel the need to drive one around.
> >
> > I live in this country and on this planet and when I make fun
> > of SUV drivers it's one way of expressing my anger at the US
> > consumption culture that is ruining this planet.
> >
> > America needs to wake up before it's too late.
> >
> > My two cents.
> >
> > Noel
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
> > > Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:18 PM
> > > To: [email protected]
> > > Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
> > >
> > > This is a matter of taste, there is no "right" or "wrong" here.
> > > Different people likes different cars, just like different
> > colors of
> > > cars.
> > >
> > > Noel P. Luneau wrote:
> > > > Make it Big, make it Sexy, make it an EV and put in a
> > > loudspeaker to
> > > > make it rumble!
> > >
> > > The way you described, I probably won't want to sit in it,
> > EV or not.
> > > But I'm sure it will appeal to some.
> > >
> > > It's like wonderful Tango - really outstanding (spec wise) vehicle
> > > which I won't consider having even for free because it is butt
ugly
> > > looking (to me). The fact that it may one day do 0-60 in
> > less than one
> > > second or its stereo's power blows out owner's and
> > passengers' brails
> > > is totally irrelevant - if I don't drive it, why do I care?
> > >
> > > But many get a kick out of it, and there is nothing wrong
> > with this -
> > > just a matter of taste.
> > >
> > > I wish Rick and Jerry luck - the more EVs on the road - the
> > better off
> > > we all are.
> > >
> > > --
> > > Victor
> > > '91 ACRX - something different
> > >
> > >
> >
> > This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
> > privileged information. If you are not the intended
> > recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
> > e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
> > distribution or use of this information by a person other
> > than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
> >
> >
>
>
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ARRRGHHH!
Had I seen it, I would have scooped it up. I regularly peruse Ebay for
potential cheap EV parts. From what I understand, you got a fantastic
contactor for super cheap.
Rick Barnes wrote:
I picked up a Kilovac Czonka II relay on eBay for $11 (250A 320V). It says
"pre-production" on it. It also says "use with external economizer". Who
knows what an "external economizer" is, and how to build one? And, do you
know where to get the odd connector used for the coil (I was able to shave
down a Molex to make it work, but would like to get the correct connector
eventually)?
Thanks,
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
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Victor Tikhonov wrote:
You don't really mean to suggest that, do you? Usually people is
dreaming about doing it other way around - trash a DC system
and put AC system in.
No way! I was just pointing out the ability to do so. I like not
having to futz with brushes and stuff.
Or dump the charger and put in one of the PFC units.
Same goes here. If you'll ever want to "dump" an NLG412
in a favor of a PFC, let's exchange - I'll give you PFC
and may be pay some.
And the same here. If anybody on the list has an NLG412 they want to
sell, please contact me off-list. This is a great charger and I like to
have spares around!
My mentioning these things was merely to show how flexible the truck
is. Also, I know there have been a few of these on eBay recently and
some were missing motor controllers or chargers and/or had been
disassembled -- And had those disclaimer-loaded descriptions that just
scream "dead truck!". You could buy these trucks and if one of the
systems was dead, you wouldn't have to worry too much about replacing it
with another option.
-Tom
--
Thomas Hudson
http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
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From: "Steve" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
The ZEV mandate was a really rather tepid recommendation for EVs, and never
very warm support, but it was a great help. It was more of a recommendation
for variety.
Responding to anything on this list on my schedule
is like driving a curvy road by looking in the
rearview mirror to see where the road was a moment
ago. :)=)} But here goes...
If we look back to the history of motor vehicles
we see that in the early years a number of variant
technologies co-existed. Granted that some of the
variety was because competing technologies were
shaking out in the marketplace, but still there
were electric and steam vehicles on the same
roads as gas vehicles right up through WW2 in the
U.S. and in Europe.
Big Oil grew up on the automotive industry, which
was also helped along by the likes of Henry Ford's
Model T -- a simple, cheap car that competed
favourably against the motorcycles of the day (the
original economy transportation). We've gotten
used to the idea that any transportation problem
has a hydrocarbon solution simply because that's
where the most of the money in research and
development has been spent. Nonetheless, most
people seem (anecdotally, at least) to want a
vehicle that starts immediately, runs as long
as they want it to run, and is ready to start
immediately and run as long as they want it to
run as soon as they're ready to take off again.
They also apparently want to be presented with
a fait accompli, not with a work in progress.
Anything beyond the necessary labour of filling
it with fuel is considered too much.
Anyone who's ever run an old vehicle or an old
piece of agricultural, railroad, industrial or
marine equipment knows they're labour-intensive.
There's a constant round of adjusting, lubricating,
checking and fiddling -- so much so that each
machine is unique in a sense: the operator knows
by "feel" whether it's "in" or "out." Ask the
general run of person driving a Honda Civic or
other modern car if their valves are within
tolerance and they'll give you a blank stare.
As a consequence, the labour-intensive machinery
is the province of the tinkerer, the engineer,
the mechanic, the techno-geek, the hotrodder,
or as Michaela has characterised us, the nerds.
(She didn't really -- somebody else hung that
label on first.)
We do this because we love it. I'll put on my
nerd hat and wear it proudly -- not least because
I believe that garnering attention for what we
do is a good thing. Current automobiles got where
they are today through a process of people always
asking whether something could be made more
foolproof. They didn't ask that because they'd never
seen a car, they asked because they saw the greasy
guy in the duster and the goggles blowing past on
the road and thought they'd like to try that, too,
only without all that messing about with spanners.
We'll set aside for the moment the thought that
if you make something foolproof, Nature evolves
a more adept fool. :)=)}
Back to the point. Because we've been hoodwinked
societally into believing in the magic of oil to
solve all our problems, it's easy to fall into
the trap of feeling that there must be a similar
one-size-fits-all solution just over the horizon.
The economics of the oil industry are, in many
senses, unique -- and not at all applicable now
that cheap oil appears to have gone the way of
the hoopskirt. (Yeah, it wasn't ever "cheap.")
Variety is a good thing. I prefer to call it
"diversification of the energy portfolio" in
my more pompous moments. Electric vehicles
will work for some, hybrids for others. For
some problems, small solutions. For others,
social change and realignment of priorities
must proceed before technology finds an
answer. Steel wheels on steel rails driven
by diesel/electric locomotive power is at
present one of the most efficient ways of
moving large loads, considered in cost per
unit weight. Change the metric to cost by
environmental impact and perhaps a different
solution emerges. Or, maybe not.
The important thing, which I think tends to
get subsumed in the debate, is that no advance
happens without the dreamers, the early adopters
and the tinkerers. At some point the art
advances to the point that people begin to
notice. At some point after that, it becomes
sufficiently attractive that more people want
to get on board with it.
I'm no engineer. I can push electrons and they
generally go where I want them. I'm not at the
level where I can design around abstruse problems.
I leave that to the folks who (hopefully) are
designing them and packaging them because the
market is growing under pressure from guys
like me -- not afraid to do the horse labour
of taking out the gas bits and putting in the
electrical bits but a bit leery of the design
end of things.
In the event, as more people realise the hydro-
carbon solution was propped up by an artificially
maintained economic system, they will begin to
find those energy diversity solutions that work
for them. That revolution has already begun, in
the places where people are most driven to seek
such solutions. That it is garnering mainstream
attention (and no longer as merely a crackpot
fad) bodes well for the future. However, it
should be borne firmly in mind that while pushing
the envelope of the possible in EV design serves
to encourage growth, the real questions that will
drive further growth turn on money. Show people
that it's not only less expensive but that it
also more efficiently fills a need they have
(rather than a want) and they will be more
likely to support it.
Chuck
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