EV Digest 4593
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "Noel P. Luneau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by Mike Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: open source-ness of Solectria E10?
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Hi from a newbie : Decisions
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) US EV-145s - was Re: Alltrax Controller
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Variable electricity rates
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re: Alternative
batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Alternative batteries - was : RE: LA Times front page article
on EVs today
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: US EV-145s - was Re: Alltrax Controller
by Andrew Letton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: PFC-30
by "Rich Rudman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) AltWheels Alternative Transportation Festival
by Ken Olum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by "Roger Stockton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: PFC-30
by "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) RE: Project ideas (dreadfully long)
by "Joe Vitek" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Review My Plans?
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Curtis DC/DC Converter 300watts?
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: e-meter and DC/DC - another possible part
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
20) Newbie's Plans
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Fwd: How To Check Batteries on GM S10.
by Electro Automotive <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Project ideas (dreadfully long)
by David Dymaxion <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Hi from a newbie : Decisions
by Stefano Landi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
H Peter,
I am very impressed with your SolarVan and BMS system. I wish that
small vans like yours were available in North America.
How is your project to shrink the main BMS circuitry on to one PCB the
same size as the K8000
Board coming along? I would be interested in one.
Thanks,
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Peter Perkins
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 12:54 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
As a TS Li-Ion (30x200ah) user for two years I am very happy.
Range went from a pb cell knackering 30 miles to 75+ with relative ease.
Possibly I could manage 100 if I tickled it along like Light foot Joe!
I would recommend them to ev users now. I would never go pb again unless
I was drag racing, which i'm not. They are also probably better now than
when I bought mine as part of the UK 2003 bulk purchase.
They are actually fairly simple to manage with stock components.
Cedric Lynch of Lynch Motors fame makes a nice idiot proof, simple and
cheap analogue Li-Ion cell protector which interfaces with most standard
ev controllers and chargers.
With some thermal management they give excellent range and reasonable
performance for my town EV.
Luckily I bought mine when they were $1.00 per ah.
Regards
Peter
www.solarvan.co.uk
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and privileged
information. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
We have come across this problem many times in the industry I'm in. The cap
/ resistor probably works great for the type of people who don't want to do
a custom pcb layout, but I'll throw our solution out there anyway.
TI makes an IC that pulse width modulates your solenoid / valve / contactor.
You can set the initial "hit" duration at full voltage, then you can set the
pwm duty cycle. A small resistor and cap are needed to set these things.
The part number is DRV101T, and you can buy it from digi-key for about $8 in
onesy-twosy pricing. Current limit is 3A.
The advantage to this method is that you can turn on a relatively large load
with a logic signal (5V). The other advantage it has over the resistive
divider method is that you don't have a load resistor dissipating power
through the solenoid load. Diode bypass is included on-chip for flyback
voltage.
Again, I realize this solution doesn't fit most the people on this list, but
it's a neat solution to the problem.
Mike Barber
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 9:02 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Kilovac Czonka II Relay Question
On 8/18/05, John Wayland <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> You can build your own external economizer. All it takes, is a series
> resistor in line with an electrolytic capacitor. The resistor fills up
> the cap, so when you first engage the coil you get full current and
> voltage from the immediate discharge of the cap into the coil to bang
> the contacts closed...then as the cap bleeds down, the coil is left to
> run off the reduced current and voltage through the resistor.
Whenever I've done this, I put the capacitor in parallel with a
resistor, and those two components in series with the coil. The
capacitor is intially discharged, so when power is applied to the circuit, a
high current flows to pull the solenoid in, until the capacitor is charged
up. Then, to hold the solenoid in, the resistor in parallel is chosen so
that a suitable current still flows.
--
EVan
http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What scares me a little about those trucks is, that you can't tow them
(that is what I have been told). You have to put them onto a flat bed.
After all, those cars are some 6-7 years old and, well, we all know that
cars can and will fail. Being unable to call somebody for a quick tow home
would be a BIG show stopper for me.
mm.
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
>>
>> You don't really mean to suggest that, do you? Usually people is
>> dreaming about doing it other way around - trash a DC system
>> and put AC system in.
>
> No way! I was just pointing out the ability to do so. I like not
> having to futz with brushes and stuff.
>
>>> Or dump the charger and put in one of the PFC units.
>>
>>
>> Same goes here. If you'll ever want to "dump" an NLG412
>> in a favor of a PFC, let's exchange - I'll give you PFC
>> and may be pay some.
>
> And the same here. If anybody on the list has an NLG412 they want to
> sell, please contact me off-list. This is a great charger and I like to
> have spares around!
>
> My mentioning these things was merely to show how flexible the truck
> is. Also, I know there have been a few of these on eBay recently and
> some were missing motor controllers or chargers and/or had been
> disassembled -- And had those disclaimer-loaded descriptions that just
> scream "dead truck!". You could buy these trucks and if one of the
> systems was dead, you wouldn't have to worry too much about replacing it
> with another option.
>
> -Tom
>
> --
> Thomas Hudson
> http://portdistrict5.org -- 5th District Aldermanic Website
> http://portev.org -- Electric Vehicles, Solar Power & More
> http://portgardenclub.org -- Port Washington Garden Club
> http://portlightstation.org -- Light Station Restoration
> http://klanky.com -- Animation Projects
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi guys, my first post to this group and im very much a newbie to EV
cars and conversions. Im very much planning on starting one soon and ive
been soaking up every bit of information i can find online. I live in
maine and trying to find a good donor vehicle right now. Im in contact
with two different people about cars that i can buy on the cheap. One is
a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am and the other is a 95 Chevy S-10.
Any problems with converting either of these two vehicles. Ill be
talking to you all very much soon as i get deeper :)))))))))))))))) I
cant wait...
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence,
Are these US Batteries US-145s? I don't see an EV145.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:58:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
The US EV- 145's are $127 each in Hayward California.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
> HI all,
>
> The batteries i am using for my car is Trojan SCS225 at $154 +gst aussie >
> dollars, pretty cheap. but if you plan to do the conversion for about 2000 >
> us dollars, it might be running a bit tight. The conversion would be good, >
> howeve i think you have to keep the weight down. In the ford festiva, the >
> car itself weighs a fair bit, well prob 800-900kg. My car only weighs 500 >
> kg or a little less after the stripdown. Use 12 volt batteries as they >
> would keep the weight down and yeah 50 DOD is good to aim for.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Danny Miller wrote:
> How common is it that power companies charge variable rates
> depending on what time it is consumed?
Call your power company and ask. Every place I have lived they have a
large number of (deliberately) confusing rates. If you don't ask, you
get the "sucker" rate.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Noel, I undrstand you, I don't take it personally.
Sorry, I don't want to debate SUVs. THe problem is not with cars,
it's with mentality of its drivers, not appropriate topic here.
Victor
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Just wanted to add that this is not an attack on you Victor (I greatly
respect your posts, projects and parts) but frustration with a culture
that seems hecka-bent on destroying this planet.
I have three passions in life, my wife, helping in some small way to
save this planet before the rapidly approaching "tipping point" and
building an EV.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Noel P. Luneau
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 8:03 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: SUV culture ruining America was 100 mile range, Re:
Alternative batteries
Of course Victor, I've had three SUV's and understand the culture.
However, I woke up and smelled the dirty air, drank the dirty
water, and got burned by the expanding ozone holes.
Consumer demand for SUV's are one of the reasons why our gas
mileage in the US averages a flat lined 21 mpg. It's one of
the reasons why the US imports almost 60% of our Oil and uses
25% of the rapidly reducing global supply. Bloated oil
consumption feeds the massive oil companies (Exxon record 11B
profit 1/4 05) that influences public policy at all levels to
refute Global Warming, fight successive wars for the
remaining oil (Iran oil is next), crush EV's and fund terrorists.
I don't like it that "it's cool" for single people and two
person families who have no need for a Tahoe, Expedition or
Hummer to feel the need to drive one around.
I live in this country and on this planet and when I make fun
of SUV drivers it's one way of expressing my anger at the US
consumption culture that is ruining this planet.
America needs to wake up before it's too late.
My two cents.
Noel
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 5:18 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
This is a matter of taste, there is no "right" or "wrong" here.
Different people likes different cars, just like different
colors of
cars.
Noel P. Luneau wrote:
Make it Big, make it Sexy, make it an EV and put in a
loudspeaker to
make it rumble!
The way you described, I probably won't want to sit in it,
EV or not.
But I'm sure it will appeal to some.
It's like wonderful Tango - really outstanding (spec wise) vehicle
which I won't consider having even for free because it is butt ugly
looking (to me). The fact that it may one day do 0-60 in
less than one
second or its stereo's power blows out owner's and
passengers' brails
is totally irrelevant - if I don't drive it, why do I care?
But many get a kick out of it, and there is nothing wrong
with this -
just a matter of taste.
I wish Rick and Jerry luck - the more EVs on the road - the
better off
we all are.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
This e-mail and any attachments may contain confidential and
privileged information. If you are not the intended
recipient, please notify the sender immediately by return
e-mail, delete this e-mail and destroy any copies. Any
distribution or use of this information by a person other
than the intended recipient is unauthorized and may be illegal.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
> In order to make EVs more appealing to the Joe-everybodies, we
> need more range. That means better batteries. What is the chance
> that some of the people here start a kind of co-op to be able to
> handle (charge, thermal handling) and to order i.e. lithium
> batteries from Saft, Valence or Thundersky in numbers?
Better batteries would certainly make our job easier. There are lots of
people on the EV list that are indeed working to adapt and "tame" the
more recent exotic battery types to work in EVs.
However, cost is a major problem. Lithiums are vastly more expensive.
Most EVs use plain old flooded lead-acid batteries because they have the
lowest initial cost and lowest cost per mile.
A great deal of work is going on to get the most out of the technologies
that are already available and affordable. In many cases, a poor
solution that is very well implemented will "beat" a theoretically great
solution that is badly done.
BTW, welcome to the EV list. As with any gathering of people, you will
find everything from surly curmudgeons to Pollyanna optimists. Stick
around and read the archives a bit, and you'll develop a more balanced
perspective. There is no place on the planet to find as much good solid
information on EVs, or a group of people that are any more knowledgeable
and doing more work on EVs.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
EV145 is an 87# 12V battery:
http://www.usbattery.com/pages/12vsweeper.htm
hth,
Andrew
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Lawrence,
Are these US Batteries US-145s? I don't see an EV145.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]
Sent: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 06:58:45 -0700
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
The US EV- 145's are $127 each in Hayward California.
----- Original Message ----- From: "Robert Chew" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 6:56 PM
Subject: Re: Alltrax Controller
HI all,
The batteries i am using for my car is Trojan SCS225 at $154 +gst aussie > dollars, pretty cheap. but if you plan to do the conversion for about 2000 > us dollars, it might be running a bit tight. The conversion would be good, > howeve i think you have to keep the weight down. In the ford festiva, the > car itself weighs a fair bit, well prob 800-900kg. My car only weighs 500 > kg or a little less after the stripdown. Use 12 volt batteries as they > would keep the weight down and yeah 50 DOD is good to aim for.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes you can.
Bill.
I recomdend the PFC30 or the PFC20B for this low voltage application.
Rich Rudman
Manzanita Micro
----- Original Message -----
From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:47 AM
Subject: Re: PFC-30
>
> Hi Rich: I have 2 EV's Porsche 132v 105's X 22 Bat. & the festiva 72v 12X
> 145's.bat.
> Can I charger 'input' off 120vac 15amps for the festiva???
> Thanks........Bill that's is all I ask???
>
> Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
> > [Original Message]
> > From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Date: 8/17/2005 10:54:44 AM
> > Subject: Re: PFC-30
> >
> > Hello Bill and Sharon??
> >
> > I have had two e-mails with no new dialog.
> >
> > Rich Rudman
> > Manzanita Micro
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My public apologies to everyone for debating this way
and not quite sticking to the charter.
I shoud have known better it a waste of time and bandwidth.
Won't happen again.
Victor
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
GIVE IT BREAK OR TAKE IT OFF LINE!!!
I'm probably going to make a couple of enemies here, but geez guys, this is
getting a little bit juvenile isn't it? For Pete's sake, I doubt many
parents would put up with this in the living room. Why do we all have to be
exposed to it in our computers? Its unproductive and as David so succinctly
put it a while ago, it sends us newbies off the list to seek our information
elsewhere.
Sorry everyone. I had to get that off my chest.
Now I feel better. ;^)
Jeff Wilson
USA(Ret)
-----Original Message-----
From: jerry dycus [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:28 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I managed not to hear about this event in its first 2 years, even
though it is about 15 miles from my house. So this year I thought
I'd help a little with publicity.
Ken Olum
3rd Annual AltWheels Alternative Transportation Festival
September 17-18, 2005
10:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. both days
Larz Anderson Museum of Transportation, 15 Newton St. Brookline MA
Join over 2000 'clean travel' fans at New England's largest alternative
transportation festival.
More information at www.altwheels.org.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mike Barber [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> We have come across this problem many times in the industry
> I'm in. The cap / resistor probably works great for the type
> of people who don't want to do a custom pcb layout, but I'll
> throw our solution out there anyway.
>
> TI makes an IC that pulse width modulates your solenoid /
> valve / contactor. You can set the initial "hit" duration at
> full voltage, then you can set the pwm duty cycle. A small
> resistor and cap are needed to set these things. The part
> number is DRV101T, and you can buy it from digi-key for about
> $8 in onesy-twosy pricing. Current limit is 3A.
>
> The advantage to this method is that you can turn on a
> relatively large load with a logic signal (5V). The other
> advantage it has over the resistive divider method is that
> you don't have a load resistor dissipating power through the
> solenoid load. Diode bypass is included on-chip for flyback voltage.
This is, I think, an excellent solution to the problem (and is the one I
am using for my 3 EV250s). A couple notes, however:
- there are 2 versions of the TI/Burr Brown PWM driver IC (a 7-pin TO220
package); the DRV-101 and DVR-102 (one for high-side switching, one for
low-side switching).
- the Kilovac contactors draw 4A at 12V, while the DRV-10x can supply
only abour 3A. It cannot drive the Kilovac directly, but must instead
drive it via an external transistor. This works fine, but defeats the
DRV-10x's built-in thermal protection (in the sense that it is no longer
passing the full load current).
- the Kilovac contactors should not have a freewheel diode connected
across the coil as this will slow the release of the contacts and
greatly diminish their ability to interrrupt current; the contactor will
not meet its published ratings with such a diode installed! My solution
to this is to use a FET between the DRV-10x and contactor such that when
the contactor is closed (DRV-10x PWMing) a freewheel diode is connected
across the coil but when the DRV-10x is told to open the contactor the
FET turns off such that its body diode (a 60V zener) is in series
between the contactor and freewheel diode. This allows the coil voltage
to fly up to several 10's of volts before being clamped so that the
contactor release time is unaffected.
I will eventually post details of this DIY economiser, but for the time
being if someone is interested they can contact me off list. Fred
Whitridge built a simpler version that works very nicely for Albright
contactors but doesn't have quite the oomph required for the Kilovac.
He has a nice compact PCB layout for his using the Express PCB package.
(BTW, while the DRV10x is several dollars in qty 1 from Digikey, you can
request free samples from TI/Burr Brown, and may be able to get a couple
at no cost (TI samples are shipped by Digikey, so delivery is usually
quite quick too ;^).
Finally, CII Technologies (Kilovac) offers (or used to offer) an
external coil economiser circuit for about $30. They can also supply
the connector for the coil for a few bucks (the connector comes with
flying leads about 6" long).
Cheers,
Roger.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An economizer is typically a cap and a resistor in parallel, hooked in
series with the coil. The coil on these high speed relays needs a
high voltage kick to actuate but less current to hold.
The economizer works thus. When the coil voltage is applied, the cap
looks like a short, as it is discharged. The current to the coil is
the sum of the charging current and the current through the resistor.
When the cap becomes charged in a second or two, the only current
flowing is through the resistor. The resistor value is chosen to pass
the lower holding current. When the relay is de-energized, the cap
quickly discharges through the resistor.
If you get the spec sheet on the relay, the economizer values will
probably be specified. If not, it is easy to determine. You can do
the math but just trying various electrolytic caps in series with the
coil until the relay pulls in and then immediately releases will
select the cap value. Then add parallel resistance until the hold-in
current spec is met. If no spec is available, determine the minimum
hold-in value experimentally and then double it to start. If
vibration causes the relay to open, increase the current by about 50%
and try again, monitoring the coil temperature to make sure the coil
doesn't get too hot.
The above applies if the contactor has one coil. Some have two coils,
one for pull-in and one for holding. The pull-in will have a
momentary rating while the holding coil will have a continuous rating.
If the contactor doesn't need to be cycled rapidly, a PTC thermistor
such as used in the degauss circuit of CRTs can be used. This device
conducts for a second or two until it self-heats, then goes high
resistance.
A PTC typically needs several seconds to cool. If the contactor needs
to cycle faster than that, then a cap-resistor like above can be used,
the difference being that the resistor is chosen only to discharge the
cap in a reasonable interval and to only flow nominal current through
the pull-in coil.
There are other methods, usually involving electronics or state
conditions (a pilot contact that opens when the armature has traveled
the full stroke, for example.) My experience with these methods is
that they frequently "fail dangerous" and end up burning out the
pull-in coil. I much prefer either pure passive component time delay
methods or state backed by a passive time delay limit.
In any event, fuse the pull-in coil with a fuse selected to blow in "a
few" seconds. I don't know what the thermal time constant of that
relay is so you'll probably have to get a recommendation from Kilovac.
In some ultra-high speed valves I've worked with, the pull-in coil
could overheat in seconds so I selected a fuse that would blow in
about 5 seconds. Most likely not so critical here so one that blows
in say, 30 seconds, would probably do.
Connectors: no idea about where to get the proper one but if you need
to make one, it is easy. Smear the inside of the contactor connector
with silicone grease as a release agent, push the appropriate sockets
on the pins, then fill the connector with your choice of stiff (2
part, preferably) RTV or epoxy. When cured, wiggle it loose. This
makes a very reliable and (with RTV) waterproof connector.
John
On Thu, 18 Aug 2005 05:51:58 -0700, "Rick Barnes"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I picked up a Kilovac Czonka II relay on eBay for $11 (250A 320V). It says
>"pre-production" on it. It also says "use with external economizer". Who
>knows what an "external economizer" is, and how to build one? And, do you
>know where to get the odd connector used for the coil (I was able to shave
>down a Molex to make it work, but would like to get the correct connector
>eventually)?
>
>Thanks,
> Rick Barnes
> Aloha, OR
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thank You Mr. Rich Rudman. Now the Monkey on my back. $2500.00
Bill & Sharon Hoopes
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [Original Message]
> From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Date: 8/18/2005 9:58:06 AM
> Subject: Re: PFC-30
>
> Yes you can.
> Bill.
> I recomdend the PFC30 or the PFC20B for this low voltage application.
>
> Rich Rudman
> Manzanita Micro
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Sharon Hoopes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 11:47 AM
> Subject: Re: PFC-30
>
>
> >
> > Hi Rich: I have 2 EV's Porsche 132v 105's X 22 Bat. & the festiva 72v
12X
> > 145's.bat.
> > Can I charger 'input' off 120vac 15amps for the festiva???
> > Thanks........Bill that's is all I ask???
> >
> > Bill & Sharon Hoopes
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> >
> > > [Original Message]
> > > From: Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[email protected]>
> > > Date: 8/17/2005 10:54:44 AM
> > > Subject: Re: PFC-30
> > >
> > > Hello Bill and Sharon??
> > >
> > > I have had two e-mails with no new dialog.
> > >
> > > Rich Rudman
> > > Manzanita Micro
> >
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John and the rest who responded,
Thanks for everything, especially for the "dreadfully long" budget assessment :)
This helps me a lot. Even though I have been on this list since I lived in San
Jose, Cali
in '97 (was it this list?) and I have done a lot of research, responses like
this are
invaluable.
I received come private replies from people who are here in Fla. who I can
visit and with
whom I can correspond as I get this project off the ground.
Thanks again and I will update as I get into it...
--
joe
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Project ideas (dreadfully long)
> Date: Thu, 18 Aug 2005 00:29:28 -0500
> From: John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [email protected]
> To: [email protected]
>
> Welcome, Joe. Guess what? $18k is a huge ass budget for a conversion.
> You could make yourself a *very* nice car with the right selection for
> a glider.
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On Aug 17, 2005, at 7:02 PM, Danny Miller wrote:
What car has made an all-electric A/C? I have never heard of this. A
LOT of electricity is required.
The new Prius is the only car I'm aware of. I'm not sure if its 12v or
pack voltage.
Paul "neon" G.
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Hi guys, can you tell me if this converter below would do the trick ? I
was planning on running 144vlt system so im not sure if this is large
enough as it says 140 VDC?
Remember im gonna use a
6vlt battery setup
9" ADC motor
Curtis Controller etc..
*
Curtis DC/DC Converter 300 Watts
*Model 1400E 120/140-1212F*
* Nominal Voltage in: 120/140 VDC
Nominal Voltage out: 14 VDC
Current out: 21.4 A
5.5"W x 6.5"L x 3"H
8 lbs (approx)
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This part is only rated at 167mA. Yet the Link 10 can require up to
225mA. How do you control this?
Richard
On 8/15/05, Ryan Bohm ryan-at-evsource.com |vehicle/1.0-Allow|
<...> wrote:
> Hi Everyone,
>
> For my e-meter isolation, I used Mouser part number 580-HL02U12S12Y
> <http://www.mouser.com/index.cfm?handler=displayproduct&lstdispproductid=333042>.
> It has worked well, and was only $8.88.
>
> I used a zener controlling the base of a BJT and a couple resistors to
> ensure that the input to the DC/DC doesn't ever exceed the ~13.2
> specified as the maximum input voltage.
>
> If anyone needs a schematic or more details on this, let me know.
>
> -Ryan
> --
> - EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
> Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
> All at the best prices available!
> E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
>
>
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Chevy S-10
FBI-4001A ADC DC Motor w/Dual Shaft
1231 Curtis Controller 96/144 500amp limit
PB6 Pot Box
Albright Contactors SW200
Zivan Charger System 2800 watts (is this particular model needed and if
not, what else would be just as good but not as expensive ?) I was
quoted $930 for this unit.
Curtis DC/DC Converter 300 Watts
*Model 1400E 120/140-1212F* (again is this model correct for the above
system ?)
Thanks so much in advance..
Cwarman
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I'm posting this for a fellow not on the list. He needs help with a
factory electric S10. If you have experience with one of these, please
contact him directly.
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Wed, 17 Aug 2005 08:23:10 EDT
Subject: How To Check On Batteries.
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi I just brought a 1998 S10 Chevy and I also have a FM200 floor Mount
Magne Charger my
question is how can I check to see if the Batteries are good or not.And do
you know how I can get to them they are under the body of the pick up bed.
Thanks
John
Shari Prange
Electro Automotive POB 1113 Felton CA 95018-1113 Telephone 831-429-1989
http://www.electroauto.com [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Electric Car Conversion Kits * Components * Books * Videos * Since 1979
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Another excellent John Westlund post!
Just an idea from left field: 3rd or 4th Gen Camaro or Firebird.
Advantages:
* Lots of room in front for batteries, so not tail heavy
* One of the most aerodynamic gas cars built
* as low as ~0.31 Cd
* 155 mph on 275 hp
* Stock body has gone 300 mph on the Salt Flats
* Lots of room for aero improvement (belly pan, seal grill)
* Known tricks to lower drag from land speed racing community
* Claims of 30+ mpg highway (although my best is 25 mpg)
* Strong, tough chassis, excellent crash safety
* Off-the-shelf body strengthening parts
* Lots of race parts and knowledge
* Possibility for 50% weight in batteries
* Enthusiast car with a good parts future
* Cheap to buy
* Capable of setting an electric land speed record
* Four seats
* Agressively lightened cars down to ~2600 lbs
* ~650 lb V8 to remove
Downsides:
* Production stopped 2002
* Twice the batteries, 2 controllers, 2 motors = twice the cost
* Twice as long to recharge
--- John Westlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Welcome, Joe. Guess what? $18k is a huge ass budget for a
> conversion. You could make yourself a *very* nice car with
> the right selection for a glider.
>
> Joe Vitek wrote:
>
> >I thought about doing an S-10 that will have as much
> >weight taken out as possible: 'glass
> >flip nose, light bed, light seat, custom dash, etc.
>
> An S10 is an excellent platform for an EV. A sturdy chassis,
> high GVWR, and lots of battery room. They are also quite
> easy to work on.
>
> Notable is Seth Murray's truck, which you can find here:
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/387.html
>
> Faster than a gas S10 from 0-30 mph, and about 50 miles
> range. It also has the flip top bed and weight reductions
> you are looking at implementing.
>
> Want more range?
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/185.html
>
> The owner of this truck claims a 120 mile range to 80%
> discharge. But the entire ass end of the truck is loaded
> with batteries. The flip top may not work well for this
> truck.
>
> Both are fine examples of what an S10 is capable of when the
> chassis is pushed to its limit, and both are fairly
> realistic goals to shoot for as they've been done
> repeatedly.
>
> However, the S10 is by no means the 'best' choice for an EV.
> It has shitty aerodynamics. It's overweight. It's a good
> choice if you have a tight budget or if you want to do a
> simple conversion to get your hands dirty. An $18k budget is
> a lot to work with, and if you're inclined and also willing
> to maximize the time put into your conversion, you could use
> a much better platform and make an exceptional EV.
>
> On the other hand, as you will see later in the post, an S10
> can have its aerodynamics radically altered. If youre
> willing to tolerate a non-truck like appearance, a tapered
> bed cover, covered rear wheel wells, side skirts, air dam,
> and a slew of other modifications could cut your Cd below
> the .30 range like Phil Knox achieved with his truck. I have
> a link to an article on that later in this post. This grants
> the possibility of a 200 mile range on lead acid batteries
> if you copy Red Beastie, the Toyota XtraCab conversion
> built by Dick Finley which achieved a 120 mile highway
> range, but add a slew of aero improvements to dramatically
> increase its efficiency and thus range will go somewhere
> above 120 miles. It may end up weighing 6,000 pounds, but
> using sealed batteries and a Zilla 2k, it could have some
> performance(But also be scarily expensive, just within your
> budget if you do all your own work including adaptor plate.
> You could settle for a performance slug and use flooded
> batteries, but what fun is that?).
>
> >What have you all found to be the lightest and most
> >aero vehicle to convert?
>
> There is no one ultimate choice in this regard. There is a
> tradeoff between the two parameters. Lighter weight will
> give you extremely good acceleration performance and great
> range at slow speeds, while clean aerodynamics give good top
> speed and more high speed range. Both characteristics, what
> you are aiming for, will give you the best of both worlds.
>
> I am converting a Triumph GT6. It has a weight of 1,793
> pounds, and has so much crap in it the glider can be
> stripped down to about 1,150 or below. The huge engine by
> itself is 403 pounds. Coefficient of drag is .32 and frontal
> area is 14.9 feet square. There also exists a fair amount of
> battery room, such that with careful battery placement I
> could have near 50% of the car's weight in batteries if I do
> a weight reduction on the car.
>
> I chose this car for the reasons you describe. Lightweight
> and aero. But it was a very long search for the 'right one'.
> I spent a good long 6 months in my spare time researching
> each and every car I could think of, went on messageboards
> dedicated to the cars asking about stats, GVWR numbers, drag
> coefficient, and advice. And even after that, I didn't
> settle on a decision. I almost ended up with a convertible
> Spitfire instead aiming for a low range but high performance
> conversion, until I found that GT6 for sale, with much more
> battery room and much better aero despite being a coupe
> version of the Spitfire.
>
> Some of the cars that appealed to me for conversion that
> were both lightweight and reasonably aero while being
> cheap(Unlike you, my budget was a bit smaller):
>
> -VW Karmen Ghia (1,786 pounds, seats 4, aerodynamic)
> -Porsche 914 (1,985 pounds, 2205 pounds for 1975 model, lots
> of battery room)
> -Triumph GT6 (1,793 pounds, lots of internal combustion
> related stuff to remove, aerodynamic)
> -Triumph spitfire (1,650 pounds)
> -Datsun 1200 coupe/sedan (1,613 pounds, seats 4,
> aerodynamic)
> -Fiat 850 coupe (1,480 pounds, seats 4)
> -VW Type 3 Fastback (2,000 pounds)
> -MGB GT (2,505 pounds)
> -Fiat X1/9 (2,375 pounds, convertible, but plenty of battery
> room still)
> -Opel GT (2,000 pounds)
> -VW based kitcars(Sterling, Manta Montage, Aztec, Kelmark
> GT, fiberfab Avenger, ect. Many are below 1,700 pounds)
>
> Of that list, the Datsun 1200, and Triumph GT6 are likely
> the most aerodynamic in terms of Cd*A, aside from a properly
> made kit car(which is very difficult to get right,
> especially if the body panels creak and groan at speed).
>
> However, the Kharmen Ghia, even though it has a .39 Cd
> stock, can be made to be far more aerodynamic than it is as
> a gas car. John Bryan's Kharmen Ghia conversion consumes a
> mere 100 wh/mile in mixed city and highway driving(typical
> garage built conversions range from 250-400 wh/mile, GM's
> EV1 consumed 140 wh/mile), and I'd take a guess that his Cd
> was probably cut down to the .25-.27 region, this without
> altering the exterior appearance of the car(ie. No covering
> wheel wells, no removing outside mirrors, ect.). Without Cd
> being this low, his efficiency figures would be practically
> impossible to achieve. See pictures/stats of it for
> yourself.
>
> http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/034.html
>
> He made every drag reduction he could, covered grille,
> underbelly, taped seams, Redline MTL in transmission, 0
> camber alignment, machined brakes. It took him years to get
> it right, obsessively going over each source of drag and
> attempting to correct it, and changing the fix if it didn't
> work. He achieved exceptional results. Every EV should
> strive to duplicate what he did for efficiency, in my
> opinion. Most EVs on the roads could have their range
> increase by more than 30% if people did everything they
> could to the car itself to improve efficiency. Instead, many
> will just opt to drive slower.
>
> Other cars, like the Fiat X1/9, can be so radically altered
> from their stock form, that they become reasonably
> aerodynamic, but their big plus is a large amount of battery
> room to allow 50% weight or more in batteries. This could
> give you some serious 100+ mile range. A favorite example I
> like to show others of what a long range EV built in a
> garage can do is 'Solar Bolt', a Tour De Sol entry made by a
> few high school kids. It achieved a 140 mile range on Trojan
> flooded lead acid batteries. The drag coefficient was cut to
> 30 with use of custom front air dam, bellypan, hatch, and
> other mods. I do not know the speed at
> which it achieved that range, but it was probably around 50
> mph. The car had 1,450 pounds of batteries and weighed 2,900
> pounds. HALF its weight in batteries. To see images of it,
> enter 'Solar Bolt' into a google image search in double
> quotes, and to find out info on it, go to the following
> link:
>
> http://www.foveal.com/ATdS_Report_2000.html#Report43
>
> Other cars, like the Austin Mini Coopers, are very light, in
> the region of 1,350 pounds or so, but they have the
> aerodynamics of a brick. You could make an extremely fast
> car with one of them, but finding battery room would be a
> challenge and at speeds above 50 mph, range would suffer.
>
> The Honda Insight was not on that above list because such a
> new car was not in my budget. Finding one from 2000 with
> about 100,000 miles on it for about $8-9k is certainly in
> YOUR budget. A Honda Insight would simply beat any and all
> cars in that list above for lightweight and aerodynamics,
> assuming all the cars in that list above would be kept
> without aerodynamic modifications. The Honda Insight weighs
> about 1,800 pounds, and has a .25 coefficient of drag. No
> other car available in America has anything on it. The real
> problem is finding a used Honda Insight for its bluebook
> value, and not marked up by the dealership $4-5k over value
> since due to gas prices, someone will pay it anyway. If you
> happen to come across one with a blown engine, you are
> REALLY in business. You could pick one up with a blown
> engine for $3-5k if youre lucky enough to find one.
>
> The following table lists the coefficient drag and frontal
> areas of various vehicles:
>
>
http://web.archive.org/web/20041118043051/http://www.teknett.com/pwp/drmayf/tbls.htm
>
> Get your ass to work on the search!
>
> I'm also going to give you a rundown of where you can make
> all the efficiency improvements for your EV. This is copied
> from a previous EV list post I made to another newbie, but
> no one displayed any qualms with it, so I assume it is
> reasonably correct advice, despite me not yet having
>
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Hi there and welcome to the world of EVs, being a newbie myself I
can't give you very technical advice, but I do have my $0.02 worth on
your donor vehicle.
Pontiac Grand AM - very heavy I think and you should make sure it's
got a manual tranny as an automatic is a more problematic conversion.
Chevy S-10 - This is the defacto standard and the PERFECT vehicle for
conversion. In fact if you can get the S-10 don't think of any other
vehicle. The pickup platform is the ideal vehicle as it has a strong
frame (for battery weight), the parts overall are inexpensive for
repairs and the number of conversions are plenty so you have a large
amount of experience to tap into. If you go to www.grassrootsev.com
you can order a video on CD which goes through the whole conversion
process. On their conversion they placed the batteries within the
frame rails under the bed and it made for a very neat conversion. I'm
not affiliated with grassroots, but I do endorse what they are doing
and purchased the video, it will surely help me through my own
conversion.
regards,
Stefano
DrFestiva
http://fest-ev-a.slandi.net
On 8/18/05, Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys, my first post to this group and im very much a newbie to EV
> cars and conversions. Im very much planning on starting one soon and ive
> been soaking up every bit of information i can find online. I live in
> maine and trying to find a good donor vehicle right now. Im in contact
> with two different people about cars that i can buy on the cheap. One is
> a 1997 Pontiac Grand Am and the other is a 95 Chevy S-10.
>
> Any problems with converting either of these two vehicles. Ill be
> talking to you all very much soon as i get deeper :)))))))))))))))) I
> cant wait...
>
> Cwarman
>
>
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