EV Digest 4609
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Zilla/Warp 9
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Correct AGM finish charge
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Ni-cads Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Valence Lithium-ion Ni-cads in Europe
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: Plus and Minus Together
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Zilla/Warp 9
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Plus and Minus Together
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Zilla Backorders
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Plus and Minus Together
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Zilla Backorders
by "Christopher Robison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Plus and Minus Together
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Valence Lithium-ion
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Plus and Minus Together
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) RE: Plus and Minus Together
by Mike Barber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Netgain Warp Dimensions
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Cwarman wrote:
> I will still need the following correct or no ?
>
> a. Potbox ?
When you get your Zilla, I'd highly recommend getting it setup for
this "Hall Effect Pedal Assembly":
http://cafeelectric.com/products/accessories.html
That seems like it would be superior to a pot box which supposedly is
prone to wearing out. Will you be able to swap out your current
throttle pedal with that one? If not, you can use your existing pedal
with a potbox connected to it.
> b. DC to DC converter for the aux battery ?
I'm going to get one of these:
http://www.powerstream.com/DC-HV.htm
Anyone know of a better option to use for a DC/DC?
> c. Contactor
> d. Main Fuse
Either draw out a wiring diagram and post it online, or get these
parts as your building it as it will make more sense then when your
actually doing it. It's hard to visualize the placement of these
items having not used them before in this application. Also, that
Convert It book you bought will help make more sense of these items.
> e. A Meter and Shunt ?
> f. Sometype of Breaker with manual disconnect cable ?
I suppose you could get by with just an e meter. I'd like to have a
volt meter and amp meter too(and a tach). I'm still undecided and not
completely sold yet on the e meter. Look here under the instruments
section:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/mainpage.php?id=3
Some good info here to clarify:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/gauges.shtml
If you want a tach for your motor, see about getting and installing
one of these motor speed sensors on it:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/accessories.html
> g. Misc cables, boots, lugs etc
Personal preference. Decide on what cable gauge you are going to use
then roughly estimate how many feet to get. You'll most likely be
buying a spool of cable in a 25', 50', or 75' length or thereabout.
Boots if you want them, need them, or want the added safety of having
something covering the terminals. The lugs will be determined by
which type of battery terminals you get and the cable size you select.
You've pretty much got all your bases covered.
The major hurdles are getting or making the motor mount and getting or
making the motor adapter to get it connected to the transmission and
the battery racks or boxes. It's all small stuff and details after
those major items.
I'm going to do mine like this:
Get the car prepped and ready. Get the motor mounted and installed to
the transmission. Build the battery racks/boxes. Get the controller
mounted and hooked up. Get the charger installed. Get the DC/DC
installed. Then I'll buy all the batteries.
What I'm hoping to be able to do to help me mock up the battery
racks/boxes is this: Go to the distributor and see if I can get 36
empty display batteries. You've seen these on display at the stores.
The ones with no lead/acid in them and don't weigh anything.
Then I will have what looks like a completed and functional car. It
just needs the display batteries replaced with real batteries. Should
make it a lot easier to build and work on and wire up(no voltage)
using those empty batteries..
Good luck.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Ward wrote:
> What I am not hearing anyone say in this thread is how some people are
> getting consistant high mileage from agm batts. If there is someone who is
> getting 3-5 years out of them please post and let us know how you do it!
I think it requires having Rudman Regulators installed:
http://www.manzanitamicro.com/parts.htm
Or:
http://www.geocities.com/sorefeets/balancerland/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Rush wrote:
> > http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/5493/lith7in.jpg (what's the "pig tail"
> > for?)
>
> That is the BMS.
If I have 36 of those batteries, what am I going to plug all those
connectors into?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
> Sorry, i have all you need but not on good side of the pond.
>
> Philippe
> France
Do these batteries require watering? What are the prices? Maybe we
could do a group buy and get a container of them shipped over to the
east coast?
Does anyone have a boat that can cross the Atlantic? ;)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
keith vansickle wrote:
> Any pics?
> Not yet but if I did have pictures where would i send them?
Upload them from your hard drive to here for example, then post the
resulting link it gives you to this list so we can see them:
http://www.imageshack.us/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
using them 100 cycle per year at 70%DOD (7000km) , 20 years (140 000km) is
easy
:^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Evan Tuer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 4:41 PM
Subject: Re: Valence Lithium-ion
> On 8/22/05, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Hey Jerry and all
> >
> > > How about instead, buy Ni-cads that while are not as
high
> > > cap as Li-ions, do about 2x range vs lead/weight in real
> > > life, are very robust and have 20+ yr lives!! And they
> > > cost 1/4 or so of Valance Li-ion's. And they don't need
> > > regs on each batt and can use a much more simple batt
> > > charger. They also don't lose cap when cold. In a custom
> > > built as an EV car done right, they could get you a 200
> > > mile range if done correctly.
> >
> > Ok - no problem. Is there anybody on the list who would be able to
design,
> > build and manufacture a set of nicads (including thermal management and
> > charging) so that i.e. I would be able to use it in my new conversion?
>
> I don't think it would take much designing. If you bought Saft MRE
> water cooled Nicads, you just need to add a pump and a temperature
> controlled fan. For the charger, you can use a Brusa charger and AH
> counter, it's off the shelf stuff.
>
> I'm not sure where Jerry gets his 20 year life estimate from though :)
>
> Regards
> Evan
>
> --
>
> EVan
> http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lawrence, where did you get them?
I bought into Tim Humphrey's haul of Saft BB600 nicads in hopes that
they'd perform similar to what I've heard about the Marathons. They turned
out to be very good cells, but not capable of nearly as much current as
what's been reported about the Marathon BB600s.
The only place I know of for the Marathons has been SG Photo, and when I
last talked to them a few months ago, their stock was running low and they
were looking for more.
Although I've pretty much acquiesced to using Orbitals, if an affordable
source of Marathon nicads were found, I might be willing to change course
once again...
--chris
Bill Dennis said:
> I bought mine from Lawrence Rhodes. I don't know if he has more.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Christopher Robison
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:51 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: RE: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
>
> Where did you get 100 Marathon nicads? Did you buy them from SG Photo?
>
> Are they available in quantity, from anywhere else?
>
> --chris
>
>
>
> Bill Dennis said:
>> I'm putting together a string of 100 right now. Currently I'm in the
>> process of talking them out of their packages and cleaning the
>> terminals,
>> and am building the battery box. I should be to the point of charging
>> them
>> for the first time in a few weeks. I'll keep you posted. Also, you
>> might
>> want to join the BB600 board run by John Lussmyer.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:05 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
>>
>> Is anyone here using the Marathon NiCad cells? If so, hows it going?
>>
>> -Sam
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
you don't manage it like that must use Ah counter never temp rise !
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Danny Miller" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:07 PM
Subject: Re: Valence Lithium-ion
> Charge termination for strings of NiMH/NiCd generally requires checking
> the temp of the cells. As long as they're not totally discharged and
> you don't know the charge state, it has pretty much the same charge
> voltage whether charging or overcharging. There's only a temporary
> dv/dt rise pulse as each cell reaches peak charge, unfortunately, they
> all peak at different times and the amplitude of each peak gets lost
> when there's 100+ cells in series,
>
> How do you manage this when the cells are water cooled? I'm stumped.
> We could leave the cooling pump off and wait for the temp to rise then
> turn on the pump and give it its fixed length finishing charge.
>
> Danny
>
> Evan Tuer wrote:
>
> > For the charger, you can use a Brusa charger and AH
> >
> >counter, it's off the shelf stuff.
> >
> >I'm not sure where Jerry gets his 20 year life estimate from though :)
> >
> >Regards
> >Evan
> >
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Yes, opposite to Li-ion, nicad are not shelf life limited , only cyclic life
count.
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "jerry dycus" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:15 PM
Subject: Ni-cads Re: Valence Lithium-ion
> Hi Michaela, Evan and All,
>
> Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On 8/22/05, Michaela Merz wrote:
> >
> > Hey Jerry and all
> >
> > > How about instead, buy Ni-cads that while are not as high
> > > cap as Li-ions, do about 2x range vs lead/weight in real
> > > life, are very robust and have 20+ yr lives!! And they
> > > cost 1/4 or so of Valance Li-ion's. And they don't need
> > > regs on each batt and can use a much more simple batt
> > > charger. They also don't lose cap when cold. In a custom
> > > built as an EV car done right, they could get you a 200
> > > mile range if done correctly.
> >
> > Ok - no problem. Is there anybody on the list who would be able to
design,
> > build and manufacture a set of nicads (including thermal management and
> > charging) so that i.e. I would be able to use it in my new conversion?
>
> I don't think it would take much designing. If you bought Saft MRE
> water cooled Nicads, you just need to add a pump and a temperature
> controlled fan. For the charger, you can use a Brusa charger and AH
> counter, it's off the shelf stuff.
>
>
> I agree with Evan that they would take little designing other
than match them to your EV which would be? Without knowing what they go
into, it's not possible to recommend.
>
> They have been built this way for 60+ yrs so they are very
mature tech.
>
>
> I'm not sure where Jerry gets his 20 year life estimate from though :)
>
>
> From my close to 30 yr old flooded SAFT ni-cads that still put
out more than rated power but also from other sources. Though they did have
a bad batch a few yrs ago but other than that, Ni-cads are known for very
long life.
>
> HTH's,
>
> Jerry Dycus
> Regards
> Evan
>
> --
>
> EVan
> http://www.tuer.co.uk/evs2
>
>
>
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For one, from BRUSA (brusa.biz).
Victor
reb wrote:
...
I don't think it would take much designing. If you
bought Saft MRE
water cooled Nicads, you just need to add a pump and
a temperature
controlled fan. For the charger, you can use a
Brusa charger and AH
counter, it's off the shelf stuff.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just tell me what do you need ?
:^)
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "reb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:35 PM
Subject: Re: Valence Lithium-ion Ni-cads in Europe
> drat must have deleted phillipe's post
> if you are reading this phillipe
> get in touch and let me know what you have
>
> reb
>
> --- jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Hi Reb and All,
> > Phillipe just posted he has used
> > ones for a very good price in France and I believe
> > the chargers, motors, ect that you could use
> > possibly. I lust after being in Europe just so I
> > could get some of those.
> > And even if he didn't, there has to
> > be a UK seller of new SAFT's and I believe they are
> > made in France.
> >
> > HTH's,
> >
> > Jerry Dycus
> >
> > reb <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > drat i could do with some posh batteries for my
> > motorbike project
> >
> > reb
> >
> > --- Evan Tuer wrote:
> >
> > > OK, you've got me there, probably not in the UK :)
> >
> > > I'm just saying
> > > that these are manufactured products that will
> > plug
> > > together quite
> > > easily (compared to LiIon or even AGM).
> > >
> > > Regards
> > > Evan
> > >
> > > On 8/22/05, reb
> > > wrote:
> > > > hi evan
> > > > off the shelf from where ? (in the uk)
> > > >
> > > > reb
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --- Evan Tuer wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On 8/22/05, Michaela Merz
> > > wrote:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Hey Jerry and all
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > How about instead, buy
> > > Ni-cads
> > > > > that while are not as high
> > > > > > > cap as Li-ions, do about 2x range vs
> > > lead/weight
> > > > > in real
> > > > > > > life, are very robust and have 20+ yr
> > > lives!!
> > > > > And they
> > > > > > > cost 1/4 or so of Valance Li-ion's. And
> > they
> > > > > don't need
> > > > > > > regs on each batt and can use a much more
> > > simple
> > > > > batt
> > > > > > > charger. They also don't lose cap when
> > cold.
> > > In
> > > > > a custom
> > > > > > > built as an EV car done right, they could
> > > get
> > > > > you a 200
> > > > > > > mile range if done correctly.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Ok - no problem. Is there anybody on the
> > list
> > > who
> > > > > would be able to design,
> > > > > > build and manufacture a set of nicads
> > > (including
> > > > > thermal management and
> > > > > > charging) so that i.e. I would be able to
> > use
> > > it
> > > > > in my new conversion?
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't think it would take much designing. If
> > > you
> > > > > bought Saft MRE
> > > > > water cooled Nicads, you just need to add a
> > pump
> > > and
> > > > > a temperature
> > > > > controlled fan. For the charger, you can use a
> > > > > Brusa charger and AH
> > > > > counter, it's off the shelf stuff.
> > > > >
> > > > > I'm not sure where Jerry gets his 20 year life
> > > > > estimate from though :)
> > > > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> ___________________________________________________________
> >
> > Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC
> > calling worldwide with voicemail
> > http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
> >
> >
> >
> > ---------------------------------
> > Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> ___________________________________________________________
> Yahoo! Messenger - NEW crystal clear PC to PC calling worldwide with
voicemail http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, Victor. Yes, first I was thinking of the shorting problem. Second, as
you know, I'm new to all this electronics stuff, so I didn't know if there'd
be capacitive or EMF problems, or anything else a limited-knowledge guy
might not have thought of. Just another of my naïve questions. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Plus and Minus Together
My + and - cables run together almost full length from the rear boxes
to the front. What possible problems can you possibly think of
(other than rubbing insulation in both cables on the same spot
simultaneously and short the pack, which isn't "electrical" problem)?
Bill Dennis wrote:
> Are there any problems caused if the traction pack's plus and minus cables
> are run right next to each other for a short distance? Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan, youve been a big help thanks for all your kind advice.... ill
continue to pick away at everyones brains...
CWarman
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Cwarman wrote:
I will still need the following correct or no ?
a. Potbox ?
When you get your Zilla, I'd highly recommend getting it setup for
this "Hall Effect Pedal Assembly":
http://cafeelectric.com/products/accessories.html
That seems like it would be superior to a pot box which supposedly is
prone to wearing out. Will you be able to swap out your current
throttle pedal with that one? If not, you can use your existing pedal
with a potbox connected to it.
b. DC to DC converter for the aux battery ?
I'm going to get one of these:
http://www.powerstream.com/DC-HV.htm
Anyone know of a better option to use for a DC/DC?
c. Contactor
d. Main Fuse
Either draw out a wiring diagram and post it online, or get these
parts as your building it as it will make more sense then when your
actually doing it. It's hard to visualize the placement of these
items having not used them before in this application. Also, that
Convert It book you bought will help make more sense of these items.
e. A Meter and Shunt ?
f. Sometype of Breaker with manual disconnect cable ?
I suppose you could get by with just an e meter. I'd like to have a
volt meter and amp meter too(and a tach). I'm still undecided and not
completely sold yet on the e meter. Look here under the instruments
section:
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/mainpage.php?id=3
Some good info here to clarify:
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/gauges.shtml
If you want a tach for your motor, see about getting and installing
one of these motor speed sensors on it:
http://cafeelectric.com/products/accessories.html
g. Misc cables, boots, lugs etc
Personal preference. Decide on what cable gauge you are going to use
then roughly estimate how many feet to get. You'll most likely be
buying a spool of cable in a 25', 50', or 75' length or thereabout.
Boots if you want them, need them, or want the added safety of having
something covering the terminals. The lugs will be determined by
which type of battery terminals you get and the cable size you select.
You've pretty much got all your bases covered.
The major hurdles are getting or making the motor mount and getting or
making the motor adapter to get it connected to the transmission and
the battery racks or boxes. It's all small stuff and details after
those major items.
I'm going to do mine like this:
Get the car prepped and ready. Get the motor mounted and installed to
the transmission. Build the battery racks/boxes. Get the controller
mounted and hooked up. Get the charger installed. Get the DC/DC
installed. Then I'll buy all the batteries.
What I'm hoping to be able to do to help me mock up the battery
racks/boxes is this: Go to the distributor and see if I can get 36
empty display batteries. You've seen these on display at the stores.
The ones with no lead/acid in them and don't weigh anything.
Then I will have what looks like a completed and functional car. It
just needs the display batteries replaced with real batteries. Should
make it a lot easier to build and work on and wire up(no voltage)
using those empty batteries..
Good luck.
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> What possible problems can you possibly think of
> (other than rubbing insulation in both cables on the same spot
> simultaneously and short the pack, which isn't "electrical" problem)?
The thought that crosses my mind is not trusting the insulation and
knowing how well it really works. At really high voltages, it just
seems like maybe the voltage would "leak" out? Maybe that's why some
people don't like the idea of having two high power cables running
together? It just seems unnatural in a way when thinking about the
currents in those cables and the results of what happens when they get
together to have them side by side like that..
On the other hand..
If I had the motor and controller in the front of the car, and battery
pack in back and had the + cable running down one side of the car and
the - cable down the other, wouldn't that make a "ground loop" from
hell?!
I'm going to strap my two cables together and run them the length of
the car to keep that "ground loop" from developing. Or is the "ground
loop" only an AC phenomenon?
Electricity is a bit mysterious because it's invisible and theory
based and not mechanical. Takes a while to comprehend it and all it's
terms and nuances.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
i'm using Saft brand of same cells (aircraft starting) on my E-motorscooter,
actually touching 2000km of fun on odometer (37,2V50Ah pack with 72V450A
alltrax and lynch motor)
batteries opened
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ItalvelEVolutionA%20006.jpg
My "muscle" E-scooter though still not using 60V40A kokam pack (targeted
140km/h in 10 sec)
it already eat one 400 CBRRRR motorbike at every breakfast :^)
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/images/ItalvelMonaco.jpg
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:05 PM
Subject: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
> Is anyone here using the Marathon NiCad cells? If so, hows it going?
>
> -Sam
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
> Philippe Borges wrote:
> Maybe we could do a group buy and get a container of them shipped over to
> the east coast?
Yes, I would be interested to do a group buy too. I really would like to
get rid of those messy floddies :)
mm.
> Does anyone have a boat that can cross the Atlantic? ;)
On a single charge? :)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
stock now...
Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these guys ?
CWarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Im wondering if on a limited budget if this is an area that i could
scrimp just a tad and go with a Russco or Zivan for $500-$700 cheaper
than the cheapest PFC ?
I read alot about people using Russco and Zivan Chargers with good
luck. Also if i did go with a PFC will i still have to have and use the
Rudman voltage controll regulators ? Would I have to have these with
the Russco or Zivan as well ?
Thanks in advance
Cwarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just ask at Saft USA and "win" a container shipment cost :^)
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: Re: Valence Lithium-ion
> Philippe Borges wrote:
>
> > Sorry, i have all you need but not on good side of the pond.
> >
> > Philippe
> > France
>
> Do these batteries require watering? What are the prices? Maybe we
> could do a group buy and get a container of them shipped over to the
> east coast?
>
> Does anyone have a boat that can cross the Atlantic? ;)
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought them from Ed Ang who trucked them in from SG Photo. I have some
left. I'd trade them for a Zilla controller. But they might go into a
Subaru 360 I have my eye on. Lawrence Rhodes.........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:24 PM
Subject: RE: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
I bought mine from Lawrence Rhodes. I don't know if he has more.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Christopher Robison
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 12:51 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
Where did you get 100 Marathon nicads? Did you buy them from SG Photo?
Are they available in quantity, from anywhere else?
--chris
Bill Dennis said:
I'm putting together a string of 100 right now. Currently I'm in the
process of talking them out of their packages and cleaning the terminals,
and am building the battery box. I should be to the point of charging
them
for the first time in a few weeks. I'll keep you posted. Also, you
might
want to join the BB600 board run by John Lussmyer.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
Is anyone here using the Marathon NiCad cells? If so, hows it going?
-Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
No problem Dennis, this is what the list is for. My question was not
the attemp to expose whether you are new to this or not.
I was trying to see what exactly is your concern to give
valid answer.
If insulation is good and the cables are taped together (don't
rub against each other or against body somewhere, there is no problem.
In fact if it would be practical to twist power cables, from EMF stand
point it would be the best arrangement.
Victor
Bill Dennis wrote:
Hi, Victor. Yes, first I was thinking of the shorting problem. Second, as
you know, I'm new to all this electronics stuff, so I didn't know if there'd
be capacitive or EMF problems, or anything else a limited-knowledge guy
might not have thought of. Just another of my naïve questions. Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:00 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Plus and Minus Together
My + and - cables run together almost full length from the rear boxes
to the front. What possible problems can you possibly think of
(other than rubbing insulation in both cables on the same spot
simultaneously and short the pack, which isn't "electrical" problem)?
Bill Dennis wrote:
Are there any problems caused if the traction pack's plus and minus cables
are run right next to each other for a short distance? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan at EVSource told me this weekend that he's travelling this week.
He's probably going to be out of touch to some degree, though he'll try to
get internet access at his hotel, etc.
--chris
Cwarman said:
> Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
> Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
> stock now...
>
> Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these guys
> ?
>
> CWarman
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The electrical ground loop you're describing is totally different
animal, it has to do with having common ground point of few loads
electrically away from the power source. In an EV has nothing to do
with physical distance between cables.
Victor
Ryan Stotts wrote:
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
What possible problems can you possibly think of
(other than rubbing insulation in both cables on the same spot
simultaneously and short the pack, which isn't "electrical" problem)?
The thought that crosses my mind is not trusting the insulation and
knowing how well it really works. At really high voltages, it just
seems like maybe the voltage would "leak" out? Maybe that's why some
people don't like the idea of having two high power cables running
together? It just seems unnatural in a way when thinking about the
currents in those cables and the results of what happens when they get
together to have them side by side like that..
On the other hand..
If I had the motor and controller in the front of the car, and battery
pack in back and had the + cable running down one side of the car and
the - cable down the other, wouldn't that make a "ground loop" from
hell?!
I'm going to strap my two cables together and run them the length of
the car to keep that "ground loop" from developing. Or is the "ground
loop" only an AC phenomenon?
Electricity is a bit mysterious because it's invisible and theory
based and not mechanical. Takes a while to comprehend it and all it's
terms and nuances.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Philippe Borges wrote:
> Just ask at Saft USA and "win" a container shipment cost :^)
Good idea..
Canada, USA : East Coast
Ole Vigerstol
Saft America Inc.
711 Industrial Blvd
31682
GA
Valdosta
USA
Tel.: + 1 229 245 2832
Fax.: + 1 229 247 8486
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
USA : West Coast
Ed MULLEN
Saft America Inc.
9 Westgate
92677
CA
Laguna Niguel
U.S.A.
Tel.:+1 949 493 2864
Fax.:+1 949 493 2864
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is this the model we want?
http://www.saftbatteries.com/120-Techno/10-10_produit.asp?paramtechno=Nickel+systems&Intitule_Produit=STM
What's the price for 1? What are the quantities needed for various
price breaks(if any..)?
Why doesn't an EV parts supplier stock these? Seems to be 5 different
EV parts suppliers..
See if you can swing a deal with Saft and have them cover the shipping
and send the batteries over on consignment. Do they want to sell some
batteries or not?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor wrote:
> The electrical ground loop you're describing is totally different
> animal, it has to do with having common ground point of few loads
> electrically away from the power source. In an EV has nothing to do
> with physical distance between cables.
I think I got that mixed up with this:
"In order to further reduce noise emissions, power wires of a given
circuit should be run together in close proximity. For example: The
wires to the motor from the controller should all be close to each
other and secured together with wire ties. The same goes for the
battery connections. Anytime power wires carrying the same current in
opposite directions are not in close proximity, they form a loop. A
loop is very much like an antenna and it transmits unwanted electrical
noise.
Signal wires should also be run in sets. It is best to keep all the
wires for a given circuit in a tight bundle."
http://cafeelectric.com/products/zilla/Html/HB2Man.html
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
To add to what Victor was saying, it is highly advisable to run the power
and return lines as close as possible. Depending on the type of motor
controller you're using (how much capacitance it has on the front end), you
could end up causing problems if you don't run them right next to each
other. When you run them close, you reduce the inductance that the two
cables have. In a switching motor controller, it tries to turn the current
on and off thousands of times per second - if you have lots of inductance,
it can lead to very large voltage spikes on the input to the motor
controller.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 3:02 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Plus and Minus Together
The electrical ground loop you're describing is totally different animal, it
has to do with having common ground point of few loads electrically away
from the power source. In an EV has nothing to do with physical distance
between cables.
Victor
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
>
>>What possible problems can you possibly think of (other than rubbing
>>insulation in both cables on the same spot simultaneously and short
>>the pack, which isn't "electrical" problem)?
>
>
> The thought that crosses my mind is not trusting the insulation and
> knowing how well it really works. At really high voltages, it just
> seems like maybe the voltage would "leak" out? Maybe that's why some
> people don't like the idea of having two high power cables running
> together? It just seems unnatural in a way when thinking about the
> currents in those cables and the results of what happens when they get
> together to have them side by side like that..
>
> On the other hand..
>
> If I had the motor and controller in the front of the car, and battery
> pack in back and had the + cable running down one side of the car and
> the - cable down the other, wouldn't that make a "ground loop" from
> hell?!
>
> I'm going to strap my two cables together and run them the length of
> the car to keep that "ground loop" from developing. Or is the "ground
> loop" only an AC phenomenon?
>
> Electricity is a bit mysterious because it's invisible and theory
> based and not mechanical. Takes a while to comprehend it and all it's
> terms and nuances.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello Don,
I have the dimensions on a Warp 9 double shaft 192 volt motor has listed out.
No blue prints, just rough sketches and notes.
It is best to draw out the dimensions as you read the following statements.
The overall length from end of output shaft to pilot shaft is 20 inches.
The diameter of motor housing is 9.375 inches
The overall diameter of motor is 9.875 (1/4 inch height for field bolts that
are on the surface)
The length of the motor body is 15.875 inches long.
The centering ring or the rise portion around the output shaft is 0.50 inch
high and 3.9375 inch diameter.
The centering ring or the rise portion around the pilot shaft is 0.25 inch high
and is 2.875 inch diameter.
The total length of motor from the surface of the centering rings is 15.875 +
0.50 + 0.25 = 16.625
The output shaft is 1.125 inch diameter with 0.25 inch keyway that protrudes
out 1.5 inch from the centering ring and 2 inches from the face of the motor.
The pilot shaft is 0.75 inch diameter with 0.1875 inch keyway that protrudes
out 1.875 from the centering ring and 2.125 inches from the face of the motor.
The Armature and Field connections are 3/8 inch brass bolts that protrude
1.1875 up from the surface of the motor.
The Armature connections are forward on the motor.
The Field connections are rear on the motor.
The normal orientation of the motor would be that one set of connections are on
top of motor and the other sets are on the side. They are place about 90
degrees apart. Make sure you have clearance above the motor. The motor will be
forward from the firewall.
The two top connections, Armature and Field are jumper together for a clockwise
rotation looking at the pilot shaft of the motor.
The two sides connections, Armature and Field go to you controller where DC
positive connects to the Armature and DC negative connects to the Field.
The mounting holes location on the rear of motor are tapped for four 5/8 inch
standard bolt thread and are place on a 6.375 inch circle center to center.
The mounting holes location on the front of motor are tapped for four 5/16 inch
standard bolt thread and are place on a 5.75 inch circle center to center.
I did not weigh the motor. The shipping weight of the motor in a double wall
cardboard box that is fill with solid foam for packing is 184 lbs, so something
between 176 to 178 lbs.
If you used a clamp on mounting ring on this motor, it will have to be at least
9-7/8 inch inside diameter to go over the field bolts. I plan to make one from
a 10 inch diameter 10 gage pipe tubing which normally reads 10 inches OD and
have it cut 5 inches wide, so it will cover over two field mounting bolts that
are space 2-3/8 inch apart.
In cutting this pipe to form two C-clamp sections, it will spring open a bit,
so it will fit the motor.
The spacing between the field bolts will allow a narrow mounting strap of 1-1/2
inches wide. It would be best to used two of these to go between two sets of
field bolts and than weld the mounting straps together for a larger mounting
area.
The adapter unit that is used to bolt to a bell housing of a transmission is
2.74 inches thick. So when you add the length of the motor, this adapter , the
bell housing and transmission, this will give you a good ideal where the front
of the motor and/or front of the pilot shaft will end up on.
When installing a motor, make sure your motor is place as close as possible in
parallel to the axis of the rear axle U joint. After mounting the motor, you
can adjust the motor with shims under the transmission rubber rear mounts.
Some transmission mounts come with additional spacers for adjustments.
Even though your motor is in the parallel axis of the rear axle U joint, there
is a offset distance between these two parallel lines. When I jack up my EV,
my offset for a GM with a 6-foot driveline distance is 4 inches. When the car
is down on the ground this offset is about 1 to 2 inches which is 1 to 1.5
percent.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: Don Cameron<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:57 AM
Subject: Netgain Warp Dimensions
I am unable to find on the web any dimensional data for the Warp 9" and 11"
motors. Does anyone have a PDF or can fax me a copy? I am looking for the
length, diameter, mounting hole locations (front and rear), centering ring
dimensions, output shaft dimensions, weight.
thanks
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/<http://www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/>
--- End Message ---
