EV Digest 4614
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Travis Raybold's Fiat Spider EV on EcoTrekker Tonite
by "Roy LeMeur" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Zilla Backorders
by "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: 8 volt battery - was Re: Help me decide!
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Ricky Suiter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Alternative batteries/mower
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) From German Newsmagazine: Diesel vs. Hybrid
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
by "Doug Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: From German Newsmagazine: Diesel vs. Hybrid
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: E-meter type gadget wish list
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: e-meter stuff - Zilla Hairball real-time output
by Ryan Bohm <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: From German Newsmagazine: Diesel vs. Hybrid
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Rush <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Tonight the EcoTrekker series visited the Pacific Northwest.
During the Portland, OR. sequence, they showed a charging station, then
panned the Fiat and Travis, and Travis had a few seconds of face time.
And... dammit! I missed it by two minutes and didn't actually see the
piece.
A friend called me and told me about it. He recognized the Fiat because it
recently lived here for a few weeks while I was doing upgrades to it.
Hopefully they will replay this episode soon :^0
This series is shown on PBS type TV worldwide.
For folks that don't know... here are the specs-
ADC 9" w/clutch, DCP Raptor 600, PFC-20, [20] buddy-paired Optima YTs for a
120V string, Rudman MK2 reg on each pair, Link-10. This is a very enjoyable
car to drive.
I don't think this vehicle has an online presence. I will try to get some
photos and text up on the web soon.
Great PR for EVs!
Roy LeMeur
Olympia WA
My Electric Vehicle Pages:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evpage.html
Informative Electric Vehicle Links:
http://www.angelfire.com/ca4/renewables/evlinks.html
EV Parts/Gone Postal Photo Galleries:
http://www.casadelgato.com/RoyLemeur/page01.htm
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My version of the data logger puts the digital data at the bottom of the
screen and plots the real time data on the top of the screen.
You can record your and see it too.
It is available for download from the Manzanita Micro website if you are
interested.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:29 PM
Subject: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
> on all the data logging programs I've seen that the e meter and newer
> version use , when using them you can't see what your logging without
> stopping the logger watch can't be started once stopped . So if you want
to
> see what's been recorded while its happening you can't .
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:25 PM
> Subject: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
>
>
> >I don't own an e-meter so can't tell what people like or dislike
> > about it. I know it has RS232 isolation issues, and that's all I
> > know.
> >
> > Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter,
> > how you'd rather seeit designed or operated?
> >
> > Which features are lacking and which you consider redundant?
> >
> > I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
> > point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
> >
> > Basically, could you create a short wish list what do you
> > want such a gadget to do. Don't let current design bias you -
> > alternative can but doesn't have to be similar.
> >
> > Thanks all in advance,
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
> >
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is the controller I need!
Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
I think Otmar has been getting a lot of orders lately. I waited about 2
months in I think May when his first batch of machined pieces came back
from the fabrication shop not to specs and then he had to wait for them
again to fix the problem and I think he found a different place to make
them. All in all I think it will be worth the wait (my EV's going to run
very soon). Above anything I know the controller itself is great, but the
Hair Ball is what is the real deal maker because it gives you such a nice
little interface to hook everything to.
And FYI, I think Otmar is like me and replies to emails a lot quicker than
phone messages (note his quick reply here). He always answers emails
generally within hours.
Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
stock now...
Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these guys
?
CWarman
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
1) Reverse voltage tolerant. It doesn't need to work. It just needs to
survive being miswired.
2) Connector on the back so the wiring harness can be disconnected. I hate
those tiny screws.
3) Prescaler includes a small DC/DC converter appropriate for the pack
voltage. Examples would be 6 to 36, 24 to 72, 48 to 120, 96 to 240, 150 to
400. It may be possible to design a DC/DC to cover the entire range with a
single device.
4) Isolated digital data output port.
5) Some sort of event counter that can be used (like an odometer) to
indicate 'work performed'.
6) Non-volatile memory to remember where it was before a power outage. This
makes getting it synchronized to the pack easier after a service or
maintenance event.
7) Lower standby current when sleeping.
8) Use a common 10K NTC thermistor to sense temperature.
9) Output an optocoupled PWM signal with the duty cycle proportional to the
state of charge. The user can then apply a filter and resistors necessary to
match their fuel gauge.
10) Ability to set the setup parameters through the digital data port.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:25 PM
Subject: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
> I don't own an e-meter so can't tell what people like or dislike
> about it. I know it has RS232 isolation issues, and that's all I
> know.
>
> Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter,
> how you'd rather seeit designed or operated?
>
> Which features are lacking and which you consider redundant?
>
> I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
> point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
>
> Basically, could you create a short wish list what do you
> want such a gadget to do. Don't let current design bias you -
> alternative can but doesn't have to be similar.
>
> Thanks all in advance,
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
As far as I know the 42v standard was never intended to by a hybrid pack
voltage.
Its need came about for powering the next generation of high current
uses, such as electronic brakes, electronic active suspension, etc. Big
motors. 42v is about as high as you can go and still not be a
significant shock hazard under most normal circumstances. That keeps
the current and thus wiring size and switch sizes down.
It's not enough for hybrid as you noted, but to go higher would present
a shock hazard, makes transistor selection more limited, and make the
battery a lot more expensive. The industry is certainly not settled on
what a "standard" hybrid voltage will be. It may never have a standard
unless one battery technology is settled on and committed to, which will
probably never happen. Even if li-ion became like $500 to fill a car
next year, I bet wait another 5 years and it'll be old news.
The 42v std system is expected to operate side-by-side with the hybrid
systems if I understand correctly.
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
Now, if they decide to also make the vehicle a hybrid and draw large
peak currents for regenerative braking and/or fast accelleration, they
will need a much larger than normal battery -- something the size and
weight of the Toyota Prius or Honda hybrids. But the auto companies are
such copycats -- I'll bet if they want hybrid-like performance, they
will abandon the "42v" scheme and copy the high-voltage 100+volt hybrids
already offered by Honda and Toyota.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm pretty sure he's found a shop to make the plates for the controllers so I
think I had an isolated extended wait. I'm just glad I checked in to a lead
time long before I needed it.
Mark Ward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is
the controller I need!
Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter"
To:
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
>I think Otmar has been getting a lot of orders lately. I waited about 2
>months in I think May when his first batch of machined pieces came back
>from the fabrication shop not to specs and then he had to wait for them
>again to fix the problem and I think he found a different place to make
>them. All in all I think it will be worth the wait (my EV's going to run
>very soon). Above anything I know the controller itself is great, but the
>Hair Ball is what is the real deal maker because it gives you such a nice
>little interface to hook everything to.
>
> And FYI, I think Otmar is like me and replies to emails a lot quicker than
> phone messages (note his quick reply here). He always answers emails
> generally within hours.
>
> Cwarman wrote:
> Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
> Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
> stock now...
>
> Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these guys
> ?
>
> CWarman
>
>
>
> Later,
> Ricky
> 02 Red Insight #559
> 92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Take your meter and measure it. When the switch is on, the negative side of
the pack is attached to PFC case ground, car ground and chassis ground.
No kidding. Measure it.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: August 22, 2005 10:08 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
I don't think you quite followed rich's explanation.
I have one of these charges and would be HORRIFIED (as well as DEAD) to find
that's it's case was tied to the pack and the AC line.
One side of the PACK is tied to AC line, NOT the Case of the Charger!
The Case is tied to the Ground wire from the outlet.
At 07:40 PM 8/22/2005, Don Cameron wrote:
>This does not sound correct. If the battery pack is isolated from the
>car (which is a good thing). When a PFC charger is turned on, the
>negative side of the pack is grounded to the case of the charger and
>connected to the AC input ground. If the case of the charger is
>attached to the chassis/body of the car, then the chassis/body becomes
>attached to the negative side of the pack.
>
>When the charger is turned off, the pack is not attached to the ground
>of the car.
>
>I have confirmed with Rich that this is the non-isolated behaviour of
>the PFC chargers.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Use an oscilloscope. Not a DVM.
There is a significant voltage from pack negative to chassis ground. It may
average zero causing your DVM to read zero, but you would get quite a shock
if you touched both pack negative and ground while the charger is active
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:42 PM
Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> Take your meter and measure it. When the switch is on, the negative side
of
> the pack is attached to PFC case ground, car ground and chassis ground.
>
> No kidding. Measure it.
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: August 22, 2005 10:08 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
>
> I don't think you quite followed rich's explanation.
> I have one of these charges and would be HORRIFIED (as well as DEAD) to
find
> that's it's case was tied to the pack and the AC line.
> One side of the PACK is tied to AC line, NOT the Case of the Charger!
> The Case is tied to the Ground wire from the outlet.
>
> At 07:40 PM 8/22/2005, Don Cameron wrote:
>
> >This does not sound correct. If the battery pack is isolated from the
> >car (which is a good thing). When a PFC charger is turned on, the
> >negative side of the pack is grounded to the case of the charger and
> >connected to the AC input ground. If the case of the charger is
> >attached to the chassis/body of the car, then the chassis/body becomes
> >attached to the negative side of the pack.
> >
> >When the charger is turned off, the pack is not attached to the ground
> >of the car.
> >
> >I have confirmed with Rich that this is the non-isolated behaviour of
> >the PFC chargers.
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This morning before going to work ( when you work on your ev before going to
work you know you got the ev bug) I tried out a motor I got for surplus
supply awhile back , (rated at 1/2 hp 32v) on the chain driven model ( I
have 2 models to experiment with on old style and one new) . I had about a
15 to 1 ratio to the wheel ( one jack shaft ) . had the mower wheel off the
ground , 36 v to it and I could easy stop the wheel from spinning with my
foot . The gas mower has enough power to keep turning the wheel no mater how
hard I try to stop it so I'm way under power with this motor even though it
looks as big as one of the tread mill motors .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lee Hart" <> I've been talking to Ernie Parker, an instructor at
Hennepin Community
College in Minneapolis. He and his students have built dozens of
hydraulic vehicles. Steve, he would be a good person to talk to to see
if there are any ways to improve your mower's efficiency.
the older style dixie chopper's had a eaton hydraulic motor and pump all in
one unite . a 5/8s shaft in and 5/8s out , I've haven't tried this set up
yet , the newer model (watch I'm using now ) has the hydraulic motor which
holds and supports the wheel and pump s few feet away . with lines going to
the motor .
According to him, most of the mass-produced hydraulics have pretty poor
efficiency. Given that they naturally have oil cooling, designers don't
worry much about efficiency.
Yes the new model looks like they went over board , no chains to the wheels
but much bigger motors and hoses going everywhere .
But when efficiency matters, there are certain units and techniques that
will get you over 90% efficiency, which is competitive with electric
motors. Neon John mentioned a lot of the basics, though in your
prepackaged hydrostatic drive unit there's probably not much that can be
changed.
Yes , I'm trying to work with what comes with the mower , , It's not that
far form working , and there are lots of things to improve . I'll first move
everthing off the newer model and put it on the older one , the see what the
power use is.
I'll should do this before I call Ernie .
steve clunn
--
"Never doubt that the work of a small group of thoughtful, committed
citizens can change the world. Indeed, it's the only thing that ever
has!" -- Margaret Mead
--
Lee A. Hart 814 8th Ave N Sartell MN 56377 leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Mark , I'm a zilla dealer and have a Zilla 1k 156v controller I could let
you use while your order is under way if you order it from
www.grassrootsev.com . its not brand new , but if I sold it I'd have to get
the same price as a new one . there would be the extra shipping , don't want
to take another dealers sale so If you are getting your parts with sombody
else I don't want to steel there biss.
steve clunn
. ----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is the controller I need!
Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
Mark Ward
St. Charles, MO
95 Saab 900SE
www.saabrina.blogspot.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:06 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
I think Otmar has been getting a lot of orders lately. I waited about 2
months in I think May when his first batch of machined pieces came back
from the fabrication shop not to specs and then he had to wait for them
again to fix the problem and I think he found a different place to make
them. All in all I think it will be worth the wait (my EV's going to run
very soon). Above anything I know the controller itself is great, but the
Hair Ball is what is the real deal maker because it gives you such a nice
little interface to hook everything to.
And FYI, I think Otmar is like me and replies to emails a lot quicker
than phone messages (note his quick reply here). He always answers emails
generally within hours.
Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
stock now...
Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these guys
?
CWarman
Later,
Ricky
02 Red Insight #559
92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Translated form the German Newsmagazine 'Der Spiegel', Online Edition.
Hybrid or Diesel - which of those propulsion concepts has the better
potential for savings. That is the question the supporters of both
technologies are fighting about. A test drive should resolve the issue:
Driving a Diesel and a Hybrid SUV across the USA.
The test started with a Lexus RX 400 h, a high priced hybrid SUV offering
155 kw, and a Mercedes M 320 CDI with 165 Kw. The 5-day trip, designed by
a well known German Motor magazine, went from New York to San Francisco.
The trip ended with a clear advantage for the Diesel SUV: In average, the
Mercedes used about 9.1 Liters Diesel per 100 Km (25.8 mpg), the Lexus
used 10.2 Liters (23.06 mpg)
No comment.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Why don't you ask him?
I ordered mine about 6 weeks ago and it will arrive tomorrow... heh, heh.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 9:27 PM
Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
> That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is the controller I need!
>
> Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
>
> Mark Ward
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
The incoming AC line goes to a full wave bridge rectifier. The negative side
of the bridge is connected to Pack Negative.
When the 120 VAC line swings negative, pack negative goes down to -170 volts
DC for a few milliseconds in a half sine waveform.
When the 120 VAC line swings positive, pack negative sits at -1 Volts DC for
8 milliseconds.
The green wire in the AC cord and the DC cord are both connected to chassis
ground in the charger.
Neither AC line nor DC line are connected to green wire ground.
The green wire ground is there to safely ground the chassis and blow the
feed breaker in case there is an isolation breach in the battery pack,
controller, motor, or charger.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 7:40 PM
Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> This does not sound correct. If the battery pack is isolated from the car
> (which is a good thing). When a PFC charger is turned on, the negative
side
> of the pack is grounded to the case of the charger and connected to the AC
> input ground. If the case of the charger is attached to the chassis/body
of
> the car, then the chassis/body becomes attached to the negative side of
the
> pack.
>
> When the charger is turned off, the pack is not attached to the ground of
> the car.
>
> I have confirmed with Rich that this is the non-isolated behaviour of the
> PFC chargers.
>
> Don
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Victoria, BC, Canada
>
> See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
> www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
> Sent: August 22, 2005 6:26 PM
> To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
> Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
>
> At 06:00 PM 8/22/2005, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> >I have the wall and the car and the charger is installed in the car.
> >I plug the charger into the wall and now the car is connected to the
> >power grid. What would the difference be between an isolated charger
> >and a non isolated charger? Because in my mind right now, I don't see
> >how either would be any different.
>
> Well, if your Pack is tied to the Car Body, you have a problem.
> But since sane people do NOT do that, it's not nearly as severed. A
PFC-20
> mounted in the car (to the body) will have the AC Ground line connected to
> the body.
> There IS a connection from a HOT AC line to one end of the pack, but since
> your pack isn't connected to the body, it's relatively safe.
> It's a nice idea to use a GFCI outlet, which will trigger to show you when
> you are getting too much leakage current from your pack....
>
> --
> John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
> http://www.CasaDelGato.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try the chargers at http://www.evparts.com/shopping/index.php?id=168
or
http://www.evsource.com/tls_chargers.php
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> David Roden wrote:
>
> I'm just curious, but where are these chargers made at anyways? Are
> these ALL of the models that are available?
>
> http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/charger.shtml
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Shouldn't need to be opto'ed. As far as I know all the fuel gauges are
a variable resistance to ground. Thus a simple PWM through a MOSFET to
ground would do it.
Danny
Joe Smalley wrote:
9) Output an optocoupled PWM signal with the duty cycle proportional to the
state of charge. The user can then apply a filter and resistors necessary to
match their fuel gauge.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
An isolated charger has less common mode voltage on the battery pack.
Less common mode voltage means less ground current.
Less ground current means fewer nuisance trips of the GFCI on the feed
circuit.
Fewer nuisance trips means more reliable charging.
Less ground current causes less corrosion.
Less corrosion means less maintenance.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> Scenario:
>
> I have the wall and the car and the charger is installed in the car.
> I plug the charger into the wall and now the car is connected to the
> power grid. What would the difference be between an isolated charger
> and a non isolated charger? Because in my mind right now, I don't see
> how either would be any different.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor,
Thanks for your comments and cautions, it is good helpful advice.
I suspect the risk increases with age - once past any "infant mortality"
(which I have not experienced) the pack will likely behave well when fairly
new. I observed mine closely at first to see what the behaviour was. I
would like to get a BMS on them soon before any problems come and bite me.
Thanks again.
Best Regards,
Doug
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 1:32 PM
Subject: Re: 100 mile range, Re: Alternative batteries
Hi Doug, I'm glad you'r happy with your setups.
Careful planning is the key.
Doug Hartley wrote:
...
The TS cells don't
need regulators as much since they are not being charged anywhere near
4.25 V/cell average pack voltage, so it is unlikely they will get out of
balance before I check them next. Until now, they are staying well in
balance, but I will eventually get regulators built or bought and
installed.
First I did this too. You can run that way checking each cell as often
as every time you charge (And taking care of any problems right then)
but realize this is a gamble. If your cells happen top be uniform enough
from the factory, you'll most likely be just fine. But should any hidden
devect be present or the cells are at way different temps, dangerous
conditions may rise unexpectedly quick.
Each cell is not charged to more than 4.0V is good but does not prevent
one to suddenly go dead (happened before for no appareent reason,
I suspect internal short/leak), and others to take the slack.
If others are uniform, they each may be 4.1V or so, still OK.
But if they are misbalanced of one has higher R_int, it will be
5-6V on that one while still ~4.0V on others.
Just be careful.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Michaela Merz wrote:
> Mercedes used about 9.1 Liters Diesel per 100 Km (25.8 mpg), the Lexus
> used 10.2 Liters (23.06 mpg)
Considering the price of diesel anymore... How much money total did
they spend on diesel and how much for gasoline?
Diesel around here costs more then the highest octane grade of
gasoline at the pump..
A breakdown of the tail pipe emissions from each vehicle would be
interesting to see also.
Something I never thought I'd see: "synthetic diesel"
Made from natural gas?
http://www.syntroleum.com/
What's next? Synthetic gasoline?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If you want to fully utilize a 50 amp 220 VAC service to charge your EV, you
will need a PFC-50. The PFC-20, Russco and Zivan will not draw over 30 amps.
The Russco will not operate from 220 VAC. It is strictly a 120 VAC device.
The Zivan can be ordered as either a 120 or 220 VAC model but will require
different chargers for different line voltages.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:59 PM
Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> John G. Lussmyer wrote:
>
> > Well, if your Pack is tied to the Car Body, you have a problem.
>
> My pack and my 12 volt system will not be using the car body as ground.
>
> > A PFC-20 mounted in the car (to the body) will have the AC Ground line
> > connected to the body.
>
> Why? I don't want to ground the charger to the body. I want to keep
> it "isolated". I want it to be a "floating ground"(is that the correct
> term?).
>
>
> > It's a nice idea to use a GFCI outlet, which will trigger to show you
> > when you are getting too much leakage current from your pack....
>
> How is a GFCI outlet different from the breaker in the fuse panel? I
> want to get a 50 amp or greater 220 line installed in the garage for
> the EV charger.
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ricky Suiter wrote:
> I'm pretty sure he's found a shop to make the plates for the controllers
I wonder how much one of these is and if it would do what he needs?
http://www.plasmacam.com/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Victor and All,
I finally got the Internet working in the Hotel! It's nice to be back
in touch with the world after all day flying.
In response to Victor's question about an e-meter type gadget:
I'd like to see the pack charge remaining percentage thrown out on the
RS-232 line. It looks like it can be calculated by using a hard-coded
value of your amp-hour capacity on your pack, and the peukert
compensated amp-hours given on the RS-232 line. But...it would be nice
to not need to calculate it.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Rod and Everyone,
Rod wrote:
Since the controllers already have motor loop sensors
installed, this could provide a real time motor
current display and a battery shunt could provide
battery current.
This is assuming Otmar would provide the output data
real time.
Good news! The Hairball will already output gobs of different
information in the DAQ mode. Scroll down to the data acquisition (DAQ)
on the Zilla owner's manual, and you can see everything that is output.
Don't count on the current readings being super-accurate, but they'll
give you a good idea of what's happening.
I'm waiting for someone with experience writing Palm programs to write a
Zilla control program. I would really like to do it, but time is an
issue. Maybe I could work up a discount on a Zilla as a trade for such
a program...hmmm.
And yes, as Otmar confirmed, there is a wait on Zillas. Plan
accordingly. I have been trying to keep a unit in stock, but ... it's
just too hot an item to keep around for long.
-Ryan
--
- EV Source <http://www.evsource.com> -
Selling names like Zilla, PFC Chargers, WarP, and PowerCheq
All at the best prices available!
E-mail: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Toll-free: 1-877-215-6781
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I thought the Russco were isolated and the Rudman not. Am I wrong?
LR........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
David Roden wrote:
Much less has appeared here about the Russco, even though I'm pretty sure
it's been around about as long. Russ Kauffman regrettably seldom
contributes to this list, and doesn't maintain a website, so he and his
chargers aren't usually "top of mind."
I'm just curious, but where are these chargers made at anyways? Are
these ALL of the models that are available?
http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/charger.shtml
Russ is a real EV electronics
veteran, having designed a fairly well-regarded (if not particularly
widely
available) motor controller in the 1980s and a liquid-coolant cabin
heater in
the 1990s.
What happened to the controller? Was it not scalable in the sense
that it's inputs/outputs could be increased to today's levels and
expectations?
Note that neither Rich's nor Russ's chargers are isolated from the power
line.
Last I heard, Rich was working on an isolated model(haven't heard
anything about it, or the water cooled model, or the 75kw model in a
while though. I imagine he's really been busy as of late though..)
I know we went over this once before, but time has passed and it's no
longer clear to me(I've read that stress effects short term memory..).
Scenario:
I have the wall and the car and the charger is installed in the car.
I plug the charger into the wall and now the car is connected to the
power grid. What would the difference be between an isolated charger
and a non isolated charger? Because in my mind right now, I don't see
how either would be any different.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This post is off topic. Please sent responses and/or comments directly to
the poster, not the list. Thanks.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- Begin Message ---
On 22 Aug 2005 at 23:10, Joe Smalley wrote:
> The Russco will not operate from 220 VAC. It is strictly a 120 VAC device.
Hmm - Have I misunderstood this page?
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=168&product_id=1629
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
EV List Assistant Administrator
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You just need to run 10 second 400 amp cycles twice a day and recharge
promptly with a 40 to 80 amp charger.
This is not going to happen in an EV.
10 seconds of cranking in the EV does not push the car far enough to be
useful.
EV cycles are much longer, much deeper and recharging is not as prompt and
as automatic as an ICE vehicle.
Regs help prevent inexpensive chargers from overcharging (and drying out)
AGM batteries.
Flooded batteries do not need regs, you just need to water them more often
when overcharged.
Regs have a feature that INDICATES when a battery has reached float voltage.
By charging until the indicator blinks, the user can know when each battery
has reached float voltage and the observer knows when to back off or stop
charging.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2005 9:28 PM
Subject: Re: Correct AGM finish charge (Was: Re: PFC-30)
> Bill Dube wrote:
>
> > Typically, an Optima lasts ten years in your ICE car.
>
> That's completely true.
>
> But why don't our strings of YT's last nearly that long? How can I
> get maximum life out of my string of AGM's? Are regs what it takes?
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I stand corrected.
The reference I saw at http://www.electroauto.com/catalog/charger.shtml did
not list the 240 capable model.
Sorry.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Roden" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:04 AM
Subject: Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
> On 22 Aug 2005 at 23:10, Joe Smalley wrote:
>
> > The Russco will not operate from 220 VAC. It is strictly a 120 VAC
device.
>
> Hmm - Have I misunderstood this page?
>
> http://www.evparts.com/shopping/product_details.php?id=168&product_id=1629
>
>
> David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
> EV List Assistant Administrator
>
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
I think this is a GREAT idea.
Someone on this list said that the components only cost about $50, and the rest
was gravy to Xantrex. So that leaves a lot of room for new components if you
don't make a 500% markup. <g>
Also don't limit your thinking to EVers as the only market. The orig emeter
was, as you know, for PV users. I use a Link 1000 here in my 5th wheel that
monitors my PV batteries. It does basically the same thing as a Emeter and
talks to a 12 vdc charger/inverter and is rectangular in format. Check out
Homepower Magazine at www.homepower.com , the number one source for PV
information. I'm sure Richard Perez, the owner, would love to have a new meter
to review and hype.
You might want to contact www.outbackpower.com, they are a very forward looking
PV inverter company. They might have some good input also.
If you give your new meter a wider base, maybe it could actually come down in
price because it would appeal to other electrical systems that use meters to
monitor the in and out of electrons.
Rush
Tucson AZ
www.ironandwood.org
--- End Message ---
