EV Digest 4615
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Zilla Backorders
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Todd DC/DC Converter
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Plus and Minus Together
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Warp 9 / S10 / Zilla Controller
by James Massey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: From German Newsmagazine: Diesel vs. Hybrid
by "Andrea Bachus Kohler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Photo Montage
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: 8 volt battery - was Re: Help me decide!
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by "August Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Rick Barnes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: Buck controller for little motors
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) 2 step contactor - starting an etek
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Solectria E-10 manual?
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by Christopher Zach <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by "John G. Lussmyer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Battery design
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Zilla Backorder
by <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Michaela's choice, Re: Battery design
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Battery question / pricing
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
26) Re: Zilla Backorder
by Derrick J Brashear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Matthew Trevaskis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) RE: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
by "Bill Dennis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
29) E-9 PG&E rates in California
by Jacob <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
30) Re: Battery question / pricing
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
31) Re: Zilla Backorders
by "Ray Brooks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Guys, sorry about saying Evsource didnt return my call actually right
after i posted that , Ryan called me from the airport no less :)))) on
his cell.
Cwarman
Cwarman wrote:
Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
stock now...
Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these
guys ?
CWarman
.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Who made this thing? What's the history on it? Is it still being
made? Where can it be bought? How much did it or does it cost? All
the search results just turn up passive mentions of it on the various
list archives and pages detailing the parts used on someones EV
conversion.
What is it anyways? It looks like a PC power supply? Was it the best
DC/DC converter ever made?
How hard is it to make a current, modern DC/DC that meets today's
higher voltage needs? Is anybody working on one?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Every EV I've had is wired this way. Is it better to isolate the charger
case from the chassis. What is the lesser of two evils? LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
There is a significant voltage from pack negative to chassis ground. It
may
average zero causing your DVM to read zero, but you would get quite a
shock
if you touched both pack negative and ground while the charger is active
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 11:04 PM 22/08/05 -0500, Ryan Stotts wrote:
> When you lay the wires together - and preferrably have a slow twist (one
> rotation every 18" seems to be about right in industrial applications) the
> magnetic fields are of opposite polarity and cancel each other out.
Is this for AC or DC setups or both?
Well, on the battery side, AC systems use DC ;')
All of the commercial EV/AC systems that I know of use shielded wires for
the motor, I guess that's a part of the total quality package you get when
buying an AC system. Victor (and anyone else?), do any of the ones you have
seen NOT come with screened motor wires?
> Of course most of the EMI (electromagnetic interference) can be expected to
> come from the motor loop wires,
Can I get some sort of shielding sleeve to put those cables in?
Well, the simplest way is probably to do what communications cables often
do - a bare stranded copper wire is laid as a 'drain' wire, over the inner
bundle insulation and then is wrapped in foil, then insulated again over
the outside. Ground only one end of the screen, probably to the motor case
(since its' housing is shielding most of the noise inside it). For the
shortish lengths that shoud be involved in a motor loop, the cost of
insulating with heatshrink tubing should not be that bad.
Lee probably has some better ideas. Lee?
Regards
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mine (made in 1981) had corrosion in the threads. It came right out
with a tap. If yours are newer, that might not be a problem.
Seth
On Aug 22, 2005, at 11:54 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
Why the tap? Did the screws not want to thread properly in the stock
terminals? Thanks.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Allen
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:12 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
If they are like mine, get a squirt bottle for distilled water and some
sharp 10-32 taps.
Seth
On Aug 22, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
I'm putting together a string of 100 right now. Currently I'm in the
process of talking them out of their packages and cleaning the
terminals,
and am building the battery box. I should be to the point of charging
them
for the first time in a few weeks. I'll keep you posted. Also, you
might
want to join the BB600 board run by John Lussmyer.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:05 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
Is anyone here using the Marathon NiCad cells? If so, hows it going?
-Sam
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 12:32 PM 22/08/05 -0400, Cwarman wrote:
James, thanks for the great reply and yes i understand more now. Im VERY
new and nervous that i won't be able to complete my project. I just
ordered the book CONVERT IT , hoping this will help. I'm about to start to
tear out the ICE from the 97 S10 today im very excited..
Well, the only major advice I can really offer is keep it as simple as
possible initially (as in first build version - upgrade things later). Go
with wet cell lead-acid batteries for a first pack - my conversion is
bogged down with lots of extra work in doing an AGM (Exide Orbital)
management system. Of course being a) a tech and b) a cheapskate I am doing
it a lot more complex than it could be in order to use cheap parts.
I have had an ex-forklift charger rewound to the pack voltages I expect to
vary across (96 to 144V), and am using some low-cost industrial
programmable controllers to interface optically isolated (modified) rudman
regulators to the dumb charger. And just to make it more complex doing heat
recovery off the regulator bypass resistors.
Ripping out is the fun part - but mark the wires as you disconnect. You may
find you want them later and to not have to figure it out can be helpful.
There is a list I found somewhere [forget where] (that I have not stuck to)
that goes along the lines of:
Design systems
Upgrade braking system if going to be needed
Basic vehicle body modifications - close off grille etc
Get motor
Build/buy motor adaption
Run in motor off 12V
Fit motor to vehicle
Check driveline with wheels off floor (run the motor from 12V)
Build and fit vacuum system
Convert heater to ceramic core
Build and fit battery boxes/insulation/heating/cooling/ventilation
Buy and fit high-current components - fuses, contactors, disconnect,
controller, wiring, etc
Buy and fit low current components (potbox, instrumentation, etc)
Buy and fit charger/charging interlock
Buy and fit batteries and remaining high-current cables, fuses.
Test systems
Upgrade vehicle suspension if needed
Register/insure and start using vehicle
Change tyres to low rolling resistance
Change transmission/diff/etc to synthetic low drag lubricants
Adjust wheel alignment zero toe in
Other body modifications for low drag - belly pan, streamliner canopy (for
trucks)
Essentially do the things that cost mostly time earlier, but some things
have to be in place before others can be finalised. And try and avoid
having to disconnect too many things to get stuff out - eg my motor and
gearbox can be dropped from below the vehicle, so I don't need to pull
500lb of batteries if (when) I need to change the gearbox.
Do not begrudge the spare time of a few weeks in designing and thinking
things through before starting to build and buy stuff. And go and visit
your local scrap dealers - you may find cable, fuses, fuse holders and
other stuff that you can "just use". My collection from scrappies includes
a complete GE 72V system - DC/DC converter, contactors, EV1 controller and
motors. I also have from wrecked forklifts contactors (putting two 72V
rated ones in series @ 120V), motors, insulated connection posts and other
stuff. So it is possible to spend some fun time 'goofing off' and recover
that value in secondhand or surplus bits.
Hope this also helps
James
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hybrids have an advantage in city driving, where most of us do a majority of
our driving.
Comparing the two in highway only isn't really telling anything about the
real potential for savings.
Marc Kohler
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: From German Newsmagazine: Diesel vs. Hybrid
Translated form the German Newsmagazine 'Der Spiegel', Online Edition.
Hybrid or Diesel - which of those propulsion concepts has the better
potential for savings. That is the question the supporters of both
technologies are fighting about. A test drive should resolve the issue:
Driving a Diesel and a Hybrid SUV across the USA.
The test started with a Lexus RX 400 h, a high priced hybrid SUV offering
155 kw, and a Mercedes M 320 CDI with 165 Kw. The 5-day trip, designed by
a well known German Motor magazine, went from New York to San Francisco.
The trip ended with a clear advantage for the Diesel SUV: In average, the
Mercedes used about 9.1 Liters Diesel per 100 Km (25.8 mpg), the Lexus
used 10.2 Liters (23.06 mpg)
No comment.
mm.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Awhile back somebody posted a link to a photo montage slideshow of one of the
EVents. I don't remember the EVent and can't find the link, but it was a
montage slideshow set to some pretty cool music... anybody have the url??
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Danny and All,
Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
As far as I know the 42v standard was never intended to by a hybrid pack
voltage.
Its need came about for powering the next generation of high current
uses, such as electronic brakes, electronic active suspension, etc. Big
motors. 42v is about as high as you can go and still not be a
significant shock hazard under most normal circumstances. That keeps
the current and thus wiring size and switch sizes down.
It's not enough for hybrid as you noted, but to go higher would present
You are not correct Danny as when they first proposed it, low
voltage mosfets were the only available option for a hybrid drive that was cost
effective.
And even now a low voltage hybrid drive of 72vdc max I think would be
better than the present high voltage ones in a cost basis though would require
larger motors, the inverters and batts would be cheaper. Of course when they
first proposed it, cars were much lighter than now as they will be again
shortly as the price of gas rises.
a shock hazard, makes transistor selection more limited, and make the
battery a lot more expensive. The industry is certainly not settled on
what a "standard" hybrid voltage will be. It may never have a standard
unless one battery technology is settled on and committed to, which will
probably never happen. Even if li-ion became like $500 to fill a car
next year, I bet wait another 5 years and it'll be old news.
The 42v std system is expected to operate side-by-side with the hybrid
systems if I understand correctly.
No they won't as whatever voltage is picked will be used for all of
the ascessories, ect.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Danny
Lee Hart wrote:
> Now, if they decide to also make the vehicle a hybrid and draw large
>
>peak currents for regenerative braking and/or fast accelleration, they
>will need a much larger than normal battery -- something the size and
>weight of the Toyota Prius or Honda hybrids. But the auto companies are
>such copycats -- I'll bet if they want hybrid-like performance, they
>will abandon the "42v" scheme and copy the high-voltage 100+volt hybrids
>already offered by Honda and Toyota.
>
>
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I just did. >100 megohms from Battery + or - to case ground with switch on
or off.
August Johnson
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Don Cameron
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 10:43 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
Take your meter and measure it. When the switch is on, the negative side of
the pack is attached to PFC case ground, car ground and chassis ground.
No kidding. Measure it.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John G. Lussmyer
Sent: August 22, 2005 10:08 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Russco vs Zivan vs PFC
I don't think you quite followed rich's explanation.
I have one of these charges and would be HORRIFIED (as well as DEAD) to find
that's it's case was tied to the pack and the AC line.
One side of the PACK is tied to AC line, NOT the Case of the Charger!
The Case is tied to the Ground wire from the outlet.
At 07:40 PM 8/22/2005, Don Cameron wrote:
>This does not sound correct. If the battery pack is isolated from the
>car (which is a good thing). When a PFC charger is turned on, the
>negative side of the pack is grounded to the case of the charger and
>connected to the AC input ground. If the case of the charger is
>attached to the chassis/body of the car, then the chassis/body becomes
>attached to the negative side of the pack.
>
>When the charger is turned off, the pack is not attached to the ground
>of the car.
>
>I have confirmed with Rich that this is the non-isolated behaviour of
>the PFC chargers.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Michaela and All,
Have you bought the truck yet? If not, unless you need a
pick up it is a more costly way to go as it is too heavy, not aero and the
amount of battery, cost is directly proportional to weight, air, rolling drag.
And bigger pickups are hit in all 3!!
If you must have a pick-up, try to find a good older one that
weighs much less like the early 80's S10, or other older, lighter pick ups. A
good choice would be a Rabbit pick up if you can find one. You maybe able to
buy one already built!!
Better would be a light, aero car if it will suit your needs.
You can use a trailer to haul big stuff rather than buy a heavy truck and it's
twice as expensive EV drive, batts it needs for a given range, speed..
A big truck also will not be a good fit for ni-cads as the
costs get rather high and acceleration low. A small. light one though would be
good with them. This is why I asked you before what kind of EV you were going
to make.
Could you tell us just what you are going to do, range, speed
profile needed for your EV so we can give you better advice? EV's are a
system that needs to be designed together as a unit. first lets get your
mission, then chose the vehicle is a much smarter way to go with EV's.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Has anyone mentioned this:
It would be nice to be able to remotely mount the buttons on the eMeter.
This would allow dash instrument panel mount, and move the control buttons
to the steering wheel for example.
Rick Barnes
Aloha, OR
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:25 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
I don't own an e-meter so can't tell what people like or dislike about it. I
know it has RS232 isolation issues, and that's all I know.
Can owners tell me what they don't like about their e-meter, how you'd
rather seeit designed or operated?
Which features are lacking and which you consider redundant?
I'm working on an alternative to an e-meter and am at the
point where I can implement changes most frequently requested.
Basically, could you create a short wish list what do you
want such a gadget to do. Don't let current design bias you - alternative
can but doesn't have to be similar.
Thanks all in advance,
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Ryan, Victor and All,
What's needed is being able to read volts, amps, amphrs
used, amphrs left and for charging, a turn of signal when the batts have
replaced 105-110% of discharge to turn off the batt charger .
And it should be robust, not like the E meter, preferably
powered by the pack voltage. Being able to use if for 12/24vdc will allow it to
take the RE market from Xantex spreading the cost over many more units.
Speedo, log option would be nice too, to make a complete
instrement package that would make it worth more.
If it can be done for a reasonable price, I'd be interested in
many of them for my Freedom EV as I will not be using the E meter as it is just
too fragile.
Anyone that can supply me with this or something like it
please contact me.
Thanks,
Jerry Dycus
Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Rod Hower wrote:
> >>Be able to see Volts and Amps simultaneously.
> EVdash already does this via the Emeter RS-232 comm link.
A lot of new people on the list as of late(That's a good thing.).
Here's the link to EVDash for those interested:
http://www.ohler.com/palm/EVDash.html
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Chris and All,
Or you can series/parallel the pack at a much cheaper
cost!! Just 2 diodes and a contactor or a DPDT contactor will do the trick
nicely.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Mine (made in 1981) had corrosion in the threads. It came right out
>with a tap. If yours are newer, that might not be a problem.
>Seth
I had the same black crud and removed it with a tap (10/32) also. I remember
someone soaking the crud with water and it loosened right up. There was also
some whitish green buildup on some of the contacts, but this comes off pretty
easy too. No damage to the posts. Probably just some excess electrolyte. I'm
going to try just washing off the cells with water and a brush. Some were kind
of slimy. The only precaution I'm going to take is to make sure no water gets
into the cells through the cap or the vent. Don't forget, the electrolyte is
caustic.
Dave Cover
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I found a message about starting a treadmill motor first with a 1ohm resistor
and then switching on the main contactor to short out the resistor to be a
softer start on the motor.
I have an etek in my garden tractor and would like to do the same. It is wired
at 43.2 volts. I have a bunch of 10 watt resistors that are one ohm so they are
free.
I was thinking of paralleling two pairs in series which would in my head give
me a 40 watt 1 ohm resistor? It would only be on for a second but is 1 ohm a
good value for starting an etek at this voltage?
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/23/05, Christopher Robison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Why? I don't want to ground the charger to the body. I want to keep
> > it "isolated". I want it to be a "floating ground"(is that the correct
> > term?).
>
> Imagine standing on your garage floor in your bare feet. Now imagine
> touching your car. Doing this safely implies that there is no significant
> potential difference between the body of the car and the floor. The floor
> is at earth ground -- zero volts. By grounding the body of your car, you
> can be assured that it is also zero volts.
Alas, I don't think it's quite that simple. Thinking of the floor as
"zero volts" is a simplification - in real life, ground potential
varies, and there can be some difference between, say, the earth rod
at one end of your house and the water pipes at the other.
That's why those things are connected together (equipotential
bonding), so that you can't get a shock by touching your metal stove
and metal draining board at the same time, for example.
And in the event of a fault in an appliance anywhere in the building,
the potential difference between the earth conductor and the floor
outside can be very large (until the fuse blows).
For this, and I don't know about the US, but in this country you can't
buy any mains powered product for use outdoors that has an earthed
metal case - these things are always plastic and double insulated.
So, of course you must earth the metalwork of the car if there is
mains current on board - but this in turn creates another hazard in
the event of a fault somewhere.
One way to avoid that is to use an RCD at the supply to disconnect the
current if there is a fault, but even this is not 100% protection -
the breaker might fail, and even if it works there's a small chance of
a big shock before it disconnects. So, another approach is to use
something like the Magnacharger, where the whole car is electrically
isolated from the grid.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
id like to get my hands on one too.... let me know if you have any luck.
dave
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jacob" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:54 AM
Subject: Solectria E-10 manual?
Hi all, if any one of you has a Solectria E-10 owners manual, I'd happily
pay you to copy it (including your time) and have it shipped. Thanks
Jacob Harris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I had the same black crud and removed it with a tap (10/32) also. I remember
someone soaking the crud with water and it loosened right up. There was also
some whitish green buildup on some of the contacts, but this comes off pretty
easy too. No damage to the posts. Probably just some excess electrolyte. I'm
going to try just washing off the cells with water and a brush. Some were kind
of slimy. The only precaution I'm going to take is to make sure no water gets
into the cells through the cap or the vent. Don't forget, the electrolyte is
caustic.
As for the black crud in my SAFTs, I found it went away with simple
water. Wash the tops with a hose, and go to it. Personally I think it's
some sort of lube.
In addition, I strongly recommend you get with John L and get in on his
order of nickel plated inter-cell connectors. I bought 100 of them and
they are the greatest thing in the world. Copper will be *destroyed* by
these batteries; go with nickel everythings. I'm trying to see if I can
afford another 200 or so of them.
John also just did an order of 4 gauge lugs, also nickel plated. And
he's got the source for real stainless bolts (not cheap-o screws) and
lock washers. Note: Home Depot garbage screws will not work; they turn
black in a week.
Chris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Steve,
I am currently awaiting the motor (Netgain warp 9 impulse), so it will be a
while on the controller. I will look for the best price, however they seem to
be fixed around $1950. Have to do things as I can afford them. But that is
life...
Will keep you in mind
Thanks,
Mark
>
> From: "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: 2005/08/23 Tue AM 12:40:56 EST
> To: <[email protected]>
> Subject: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Hi Mark , I'm a zilla dealer and have a Zilla 1k 156v controller I could let
> you use while your order is under way if you order it from
> www.grassrootsev.com . its not brand new , but if I sold it I'd have to get
> the same price as a new one . there would be the extra shipping , don't want
> to take another dealers sale so If you are getting your parts with sombody
> else I don't want to steel there biss.
> steve clunn
>
>
>
>
> . ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Ward" <>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:27 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
>
>
> > That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is the controller I need!
> >
> > Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
> >
> > Mark Ward
> > St. Charles, MO
> > 95 Saab 900SE
> > www.saabrina.blogspot.com
> >
> >
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[email protected]>
> > Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:06 PM
> > Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
> >
> >
> >>I think Otmar has been getting a lot of orders lately. I waited about 2
> >>months in I think May when his first batch of machined pieces came back
> >>from the fabrication shop not to specs and then he had to wait for them
> >>again to fix the problem and I think he found a different place to make
> >>them. All in all I think it will be worth the wait (my EV's going to run
> >>very soon). Above anything I know the controller itself is great, but the
> >>Hair Ball is what is the real deal maker because it gives you such a nice
> >>little interface to hook everything to.
> >>
> >> And FYI, I think Otmar is like me and replies to emails a lot quicker
> >> than phone messages (note his quick reply here). He always answers emails
> >> generally within hours.
> >>
> >> Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
> >> Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
> >> stock now...
> >>
> >> Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these guys
> >> ?
> >>
> >> CWarman
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Later,
> >> Ricky
> >> 02 Red Insight #559
> >> 92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
> >> __________________________________________________
> >> Do You Yahoo!?
> >> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> >> http://mail.yahoo.com
> >>
> >
> >
>
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At 06:30 AM 8/23/2005, Christopher Zach wrote:
In addition, I strongly recommend you get with John L and get in on
his order of nickel plated inter-cell connectors. I bought 100 of
them and they are the greatest thing in the world. Copper will be
*destroyed* by these batteries; go with nickel everythings. I'm
trying to see if I can afford another 200 or so of them.
I just mentioned on the BB600 list that we are getting together
another order for Busbars. I need orders by end of Wednesday.
--
John G. Lussmyer mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dragons soar and Tigers prowl while I dream....
http://www.CasaDelGato.com
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Michaela,
Paul Wallace has an S-10 with SAFT NiCads. His truck is on the EV Album at
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/313.html
Ralph
Michaela Merz writes:
>
>
> Hello everybody:
>
> After lots of thinking, googling and searching, I finally made up my mind.
> I found a nice '97 Chevy S-10 (a steal for 1500 Bucks) and will convert it
> within the next few month.
>
> I will try to avoid Lead-Acid batteries because I don't like the weight
> and the disadvantages.
>
> So - I'd like to talk about the necessary power (in terms of Ah/c3 or Kwh)
> needed to get a highway speed range of about 60 Miles. I would think the
> S-10 needs about 350 Wh, 400 Wh or maybe 450 Wh to go 60 Mph - or about 4
> KW/h to 4.5 KW/h for 10 Miles - so , I am talking about 24 Kw/h to 27 Kw/h
> needed to get 60 Miles. I guess that I would have to use some NiCads to
> get into that range.
>
> Anybody did an S-10 with Nicads before? Somebody (commercially) willing
> and able to provide technology, batteries and charger?
>
> mm.
>
>
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Omar, sounds like time to hire on!!! :))))
Anyone else have a a Zilla1k for sale ?
Cwarman
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Hey Jerry and All:
Yes, I bought the truck. And yes, since we are ranchers, we need a truck.
And, Jerry, don't get me wrong, down here in South-Texas, we like, well,
trucks. I already feel like an ant with my '82 Nissan E-Truck while being
squeezed in between a Dodge Ram and and F-350 at the traffic light :)
Why didn't I buy an older truck? Because I am about to invest some serious
money into the conversion. And I don't want to start with body work. And
I'd like to have something that looks 'newer' :)
Back to the original question:
I would think the S-10 needs about 350 Wh, 400 Wh or maybe 450 Wh to go 60
Mph - or about 4 KW/h to 4.5 KW/h for 10 Miles - so , I am talking about
24 Kw/h to 27 Kw/h needed to get 60 Miles. I guess that I would have to
use some NiCads to get into that range.
Anybody did an S-10 with Nicads before? Somebody (commercially) willing
and able to provide technology, batteries and charger?
mm.
>
> Hi Michaela and All,
>
> Have you bought the truck yet? If not, unless you need
> a pick up it is a more costly way to go as it is too
> heavy, not aero and the amount of battery, cost is
> directly proportional to weight, air, rolling drag.
> And bigger pickups are hit in all 3!!
>
> If you must have a pick-up, try to find a good older one
> that weighs much less like the early 80's S10, or other
> older, lighter pick ups. A good choice would be a Rabbit
> pick up if you can find one. You maybe able to buy one
> already built!!
>
> Better would be a light, aero car if it will suit your
> needs. You can use a trailer to haul big stuff rather
> than buy a heavy truck and it's twice as expensive EV
> drive, batts it needs for a given range, speed..
>
> A big truck also will not be a good fit for ni-cads as
> the costs get rather high and acceleration low. A small.
> light one though would be good with them. This is why I
> asked you before what kind of EV you were going to make.
>
> Could you tell us just what you are going to do, range,
> speed profile needed for your EV so we can give you
> better advice? EV's are a system that needs to be
> designed together as a unit. first lets get your mission,
> then chose the vehicle is a much smarter way to go with
> EV's.
>
> HTH's,
>
> Jerry Dycus
>
>
> ---------------------------------
> Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
>
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Hello all,
As I am working on the EV Smart conversion (Thanks Jerry for the input),
I am now looking at 48 volt 100-150 AMP storage solution. (I am looking for
daily useable 80-100 AH @ 48Volts).
Since my car is small, the Trojans are too tall to mount. The Optima Yellow top
is marginal sizewise to fit in.
Thunder Sky looks interesting ($1600 on their web site for 48V 90AH) for
lithium (charger?)
NiCad (VTH) for $3000
I would like to stay under $2000 for the battery pack plus or minus the charger
if possible, but be able to draw up to 80 AH-100AH out of them before recharge.
Maximum controller output is 400 Amps.
Since the market price changes, I was looking for input on possible "lighter"
weight battery solutions without breaking the bank,
Thank you,
Peter
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On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Omar, sounds like time to hire on!!! :))))
Anyone else have a a Zilla1k for sale ?
I have a z1k lv, with hairball, which i can mail out as soon as today (new
and uninstalled) for $1950.
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On 23/8/05 3:42 am, Mike Chancey at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> The ability to drive a conventional analog fuel gage so the uninitiated can
> drive the EV.
>
> The ability to be interfaced with the speedometer/odometer pulse signal to
> then display miles remaining at current state of charge at current rate of
> discharge.
I initially thought that the analogue gauges on Peugeot and Citroen EVs
looked dated and inferior to the digital bar gauges etc. as used on the EV+,
RAV4 EV, EV1 etc. but in use they actually work very well!
They have basically made a new face for the 270 degree rev counter (tacho)
scaled from 0% to 100% with 50% at the top of the gauge so that "right of
centre" is >50% and "left of centre" is <50%... quick to read without taking
your eyes off the road! When pulling a lot of power the size means it is
easy to notice the rate of change too!
Similarly, the "ECO" gauge (ammeter) is akin to MPG gauges of old: much
smaller +-45 degree gauge, normally centred: move to the right is amps being
drawn from battery (through green, amber and red sections: border between
green and amber is 100A) and moving to the left it is in regen.
Apart from not having a "miles remaining" estimate the set-up works very
well. (I reset the trip odometer at each full charge - nearly as good!)
Matt
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Thanks, I'll try to thread a few tonight. The one problem I have seen so
far is that the grounding straps are so corroded that they break off inside
of the screen hole when you remove them. I haven't tried threading a bolt
into one yet, so I don't know if it will cause problems.
Bill Dennis
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Seth Allen
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 3:51 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
Mine (made in 1981) had corrosion in the threads. It came right out
with a tap. If yours are newer, that might not be a problem.
Seth
On Aug 22, 2005, at 11:54 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
> Why the tap? Did the screws not want to thread properly in the stock
> terminals? Thanks.
>
> Bill Dennis
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of Seth Allen
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 6:12 PM
> To: [email protected]
> Subject: Re: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
>
> If they are like mine, get a squirt bottle for distilled water and some
> sharp 10-32 taps.
>
> Seth
> On Aug 22, 2005, at 2:29 PM, Bill Dennis wrote:
>
>> I'm putting together a string of 100 right now. Currently I'm in the
>> process of talking them out of their packages and cleaning the
>> terminals,
>> and am building the battery box. I should be to the point of charging
>> them
>> for the first time in a few weeks. I'll keep you posted. Also, you
>> might
>> want to join the BB600 board run by John Lussmyer.
>>
>> Bill Dennis
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> On
>> Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:05 AM
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Who's Using Marathon NiCads?
>>
>> Is anyone here using the Marathon NiCad cells? If so, hows it going?
>>
>> -Sam
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
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Hi y'all, any one have experience with California's E-9 PG&E rates for
charging EV's? Mostly want to see if it ended up being worthwhile
economically. It's between 5-6 cents/kwh off peak (midnight to 7am) and as
high as 28.4 cents on peak (M-F 2-9 pm). There are partial peak rates at
around 10 cents at other day times (depending on time of year).Here's the
web site if you're interested. It was hard to find.
http://www.pge.com/about_us/environment/electric_vehicles/index.html#topic5
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Peter,
I was thinking about a Smart, as well, but what motor are you going to
use? At 48v, I can only think Etek - a single one. Thanks!
-Sam
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello all,
As I am working on the EV Smart conversion (Thanks Jerry for the input),
I am now looking at 48 volt 100-150 AMP storage solution. (I am looking for
daily useable 80-100 AH @ 48Volts).
Since my car is small, the Trojans are too tall to mount. The Optima Yellow top
is marginal sizewise to fit in.
Thunder Sky looks interesting ($1600 on their web site for 48V 90AH) for
lithium (charger?)
NiCad (VTH) for $3000
I would like to stay under $2000 for the battery pack plus or minus the charger
if possible, but be able to draw up to 80 AH-100AH out of them before recharge.
Maximum controller output is 400 Amps.
Since the market price changes, I was looking for input on possible "lighter"
weight battery solutions without breaking the bank,
Thank you,
Peter
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Mark,
I checked out your 'saab blog' and had some comments.
The torque converter does require a pilot bushing to support it at the
front. That is what the long snout does.
I have been contemplating auto trans use for EV's. Unfortunately I know just
enough about automatic trans to be dangerous [ a little bit of knowledge is
a dangerous thing :) ]. My concept is to eliminate the torque converter
completely and create a drive spindle that solidly hooks the motor shaft to
the transmission's oil pump and input shaft.. What would be required is a
separate, electric hyd pump [ your PS pump?? ] to provide pressure to the
transmission while the motor is not running. This electric pump could be
shut off when the internal trans pump gets up to speed.
To drive the car you would select the gear you want with the shifter. The
clutch pack or band for this gear would be applied via the pressure supplied
by the electric pump. Once you hit the throttle and move away the internal
pump would then take over the hyd chore and the electric would shut off.
The trans would then shift up and down as needed until you came to a stop
and then the electric pump would take over again.
The question is how much current does the internal pump draw and how much
more internal drag does the auto trans have vs. a manual tranny? In high
gear [ not OD ] the auto is direct drive similar to the manual so there
would not be much difference there.
A lot of older automatics used a vacuum modulator to control part throttle
shifting and a kickdown linkage for 'passing gear'. Chry Torqueflites used
the kickdown linkage but no vacuum modulator. It is also possible to modify
the valve body in an auto trans to make it fully manual as is done in drag
racing. I just don't know if it is possible to make this conversion without
also have the trans shift so hard that it would make your neck hurt.
A computer controlled tranny is totally out of my realm of experience as to
whether it would be possible to make it shift properly in an ev. You would
probably need a throttle position sensor, tach sensor and vehicle speed
sensor at the very least .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Ward" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 23, 2005 12:27 AM
Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
> That scares me a bit since the Zilla 1K is the controller I need!
>
> Hope the problem is resolved soon! Might have to look at a Zapi instead.
>
> Mark Ward
> St. Charles, MO
> 95 Saab 900SE
> www.saabrina.blogspot.com
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ricky Suiter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 8:06 PM
> Subject: Re: Zilla Backorders
>
>
> >I think Otmar has been getting a lot of orders lately. I waited about 2
> >months in I think May when his first batch of machined pieces came back
> >from the fabrication shop not to specs and then he had to wait for them
> >again to fix the problem and I think he found a different place to make
> >them. All in all I think it will be worth the wait (my EV's going to run
> >very soon). Above anything I know the controller itself is great, but the
> >Hair Ball is what is the real deal maker because it gives you such a nice
> >little interface to hook everything to.
> >
> > And FYI, I think Otmar is like me and replies to emails a lot quicker
than
> > phone messages (note his quick reply here). He always answers emails
> > generally within hours.
> >
> > Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is it true there is like a 2 months backorder or wait time for the 1k
> > Zilla Controllers ? WOW! There has to be somewhere that has them in
> > stock now...
> >
> > Evsource hasnt returned my calls at all, has anyone dealt with these
guys
> > ?
> >
> > CWarman
> >
> >
> >
> > Later,
> > Ricky
> > 02 Red Insight #559
> > 92 Saturn SC2 EV conversion in progress
> > __________________________________________________
> > Do You Yahoo!?
> > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> > http://mail.yahoo.com
> >
>
>
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