EV Digest 4631
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: Build an Induction Charging System
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) RE: What is the DC input voltage range of the IOTA DLS-45
by TiM M <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: Recalibrating E-meter
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Todd DC/DC Converter
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: What is the DC input voltage range of the IOTA DLS-45
by "Joe Smalley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Safety - AC/DC, voltage, current
by Osmo Sarin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) RE: driving habits
by Cor van de Water <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Google Group sci.chem.electrochem.battery
by Lock Hughes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Transmissions...
by Justin Southam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) EV parking and HOV stickers (California)
by Ed Thorpe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Build an Induction Charging System
by Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by "Roland Wiench" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Transmissions...
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Todd DC/DC Converter
by Nick Viera <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Emeter RS232 - Palm M100 EVDash?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Emeter RS232 - Palm M100 EVDash?
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: Build an Induction Charging System
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: Todd DC/DC Converter
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Emeter RS232 - Palm M100 EVDash?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Safety - AC/DC, voltage, current
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) RE: Emeter RS232 - Palm M100 EVDash?
by "Myles Twete" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I have one. It's a colossal POS. It contains a very simple line
operated light dimmer affair that discharges a small cap into a coil
potted in oil inside a PVC pipe. The "voltage adjustment" isn't. Over
a few degrees of rotation, it somewhat affects the total energy
delivered but has essentially no effect on voltage.
Worse, there is no rectifier. It generates a more or less unipolar
pulse but it can't be used to charge a capacitor or much of any other
purpose other than sparking because there is a bi-directional DC path
through the secondary. A high voltage rectifier (that should be
inside the tube in the oil) is necessary to do anything useful.
I figure I can salvage the potted coil and case and build my own cap
discharge driver. Which won't resolve the other problem - the coil
arcing inside the case between terminals.
Before this devolves into another worthless thread between people who
won't do the math, it would be good to realize something. To achieve
useful power transfer across a capacitively coupled interface, one
would need very high frequency and very high voltage. NOT DC!!!! A
Tesla coil is a good example of moderate power coupling using low
frequency, very high voltage. A microwave oven is an example of using
very high frequency, low voltage. Indeed, microwaves from an oven
magnetron guided across a narrow gap to a bank of suitable diodes
would be one method of transferring moderate power across a gap. Here
is a photo of microwaves being capacitively coupled into a glass bulb
filled with neon (and my hand :-) What look like Moire' rings is
actually the microwaves affecting the digicam even though it was all
the way across the shop in full telephoto mode!
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/neon/micro_nuke.jpg
In general, voltage coupling is not the way to go.
The split core (or air core) transformer that Lee described is pretty
much the only practical method of transmitting kilowatt level power
across a gap. The gap should be as small as possible, preferably the
core halves touching or if air cored, the coils touching.
Here is a photo of a 1.5kw induction range that I have. This thing
couples the energy into the bottom of a cast iron pan that forms a one
turn shorted secondary. The very high current in the iron heats the
pan practically instantly while the top of the range remains cool.
Interestingly enough, I have fractured thin cast iron from the
magnetic forces set up in the pan by the high current. Actually, I
fractured two different ones. Each broke exactly the same way, from
the center of the pan to one edge. With the circuit broken, the pan
no longer heated very much.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/misc/Induction%20Range%20Internals.jpg
If the pan is replaced with a coil of wire then a transformer is
formed. In addition to the power electronics (a couple of large FETS
in a half bridge configuration and a line operated voltage
doubler/rectifier), there is an auto-tune mechanism to adjust the coil
to resonance for a variety of pot sizes. And there are rather
extensive safety circuits to protect the power stages from running
unloaded. The dark gray stuff under the coil is ferrite.
If someone wants to play with inductive coupling, an induction range
is a great place to start. I picked these up for $10 apiece surplus.
They'd been sold on QVC for about $100. These were warranty returns
and all had problems, easily fixed. Commercial grade ranges that
contain much better protective and tuning circuits, start at about
$300 and go up to a couple of grand for a 4kw version.
John
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:03:24 -0500, Ryan Stotts
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>If you want to play with high voltage, here's a relatively low cost device:
>
>http://www.unitednuclear.com/hvsupply.htm
>
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm using the Iota DLS-55 in my 144V truck. It's on a
relay so it's only powered up when the key is on. I
was concerned about the 180V finishing charge the pack
sees. My rest voltage is around 152V and so far no
problems. It's been about 2 weeks and ~250 trouble
free miles.
TiM
'61 Electric Rampside
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CEF (F06) is too small.
Set it to Automatic (A90) and "let it figure out" the right number.
AGMs are usually very close to unity (100%) CEF.
If the number is too small, the meter never resets (as you are
experiencing).
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "dan shoop" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 6:17 PM
Subject: Recalibrating E-meter
> What are you guys using for a Peukert Exponent for Excid Orbital 34CD's?
> I have the E-meter set at 1.09 but at the end of a week of charging and
> discharging the LED charge indicator reports no charge while the battery
> regs and voltage show full capacity. I remedy this by resetting each
> week. Any ideas or suggestion?
>
> --
> ___________________________________________________________
> Sign-up for Ads Free at Mail.com
> http://promo.mail.com/adsfreejump.htm
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
A similar product is available from Ample Power
http://www.amplepower.com/products/chrg/index.html
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 10:41 AM
Subject: Re: Todd DC/DC Converter
> Paul wrote:
>
> > > Who made this thing? What's the history on it? Is it still being
> > > made? Where can it be bought?
>
> > It was built by Todd Engineering.
>
> Interesting post here:
>
>
http://www.rv.net/forum/index.cfm/fuseaction/thread/tid/16035118/gotomsg/16035342.cfm
>
> 08/16/05
>
> "I tried to call Todd Engineering but I understand they're no longer
> in business."
>
> "Many of the original engineering prints from Todd Engineering were
> acquired by IOTA."
>
> http://www.iotaengineering.com/pptech.htm
>
>
> Looks like they are still being made, just under a different brand?
>
> http://www.mastertech-inc.com/iota/
>
>
> If the input for it is 108 - 132 VAC, what's the highest DC voltage it can
take?
>
>
> To find some prices on the various models, enter them here like this:
>
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=iota+DLS+27-25
>
> Or:
>
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=iota+DLS+27-15
>
>
> Which was the model that used to be used?
>
> Was it this one?
>
> http://www.mastertech-inc.com/iota/dls55.html
>
> http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=iota+DLS-55
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Todds blow up at 200 volts input.
You are risking damage by putting more than 180 VDC on them.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "TiM M" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "EV-List-Post" <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 11:39 PM
Subject: RE: What is the DC input voltage range of the IOTA DLS-45
> I'm using the Iota DLS-55 in my 144V truck. It's on a
> relay so it's only powered up when the key is on. I
> was concerned about the 180V finishing charge the pack
> sees. My rest voltage is around 152V and so far no
> problems. It's been about 2 weeks and ~250 trouble
> free miles.
>
> TiM
> '61 Electric Rampside
>
> __________________________________________________
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Trying to make my mind whether to use AC or DC motor in my first
conversion (yes, the holy battle again...). I´m not an expert in
electronics, and maybe because of that the safety issues are top in my
list. Also in general, I think if we want EV´s to get broader
acceptance, we cannot afford any severe accidents related to EV
technics.
So, I suppose high voltage/low currence is more dangerous than low
voltage/high currence? But is there any major difference in let say
200-400 V range?
AC is said to be more dangerous than DC at the same voltage level, and
AC to be dangerous from lower voltage levels also?
These facts speaks for DC in theory, but what about practice? What are
the REAL situations that are potentially dangerous? Have you guys/girls
had any severe accidents?
Thanks,
Osmo
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Try Google:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22of+all+car+trips+are+less+than%22
This delivered the following text from 2003:
According to the California Air Resources Board, 'full hybrid' passenger
cars with only 30 miles of 'electric-only' range would typically cover some
68% of ALL miles traveled on electric power alone. In most countries, over
90% of all car trips are less than 30 miles.
Other articles have pretty good consensus about 50% of car trips being under
5 KM (3 miles) and so on
for other distances / percentages.
Cor van de Water
Systems Architect
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Private: http://www.cvandewater.com
Skype: cor_van_de_water IM: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Tel: +1 408 542 5225 VoIP: +31 20 3987567 FWD# 25925
Fax: +1 408 731 3673 eFAX: +31-84-717-9972
Proxim Wireless Networks eFAX: +1-501-641-8576
Take your network further http://www.proxim.com
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Bob Bath
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 5:40 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: driving habits
That's a quote (85%) from Mike Brown's book "Convert
It". Mike's pretty thorough, so maybe he can source
it for us.
peace,
--- Ken Olum <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Could someone point me to the study from which one
> draws such
> conclusions as "x% of all car trips are less than 40
> miles"?
>
> The thing I would really like to be able to
> determine is this: What
> percentage of cars in America could be replaced with
> electric cars
> with a range of N miles without any change in
> driving habits (or with
> families choosing who should drive which car but
> otherwise going to
> the same places)? I suspect this isn't known
> because it would require
> asking people the longest trip their car has ever
> been on or the
> longest trips made simultaneously by all members of
> their families.
> But I would settle for the question of what
> percentage of trips are
> within a given range.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Ken
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V (video or DVD available)!
www.budget.net/~bbath/CivicWithACord.html
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering
wheel? Are you saving any gas for your kids?
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
OK, the subject line is somewhat facetious, but I'm at that stage in my
thinking on my conversion.
What I want is not an amp-hour counter but a fuel gauge. I want to be
able to glance at the dashboard and get an instant picture of my state
of charge, like in a ICE car. It doesn't have to be exact, just
informative enough to know when to turn around or start looking for an
outlet.
Fancy computers that give me detailed specs on energy consumption are a
secondary need. I will probably only want this information once in a
great while, and it can be calculated pretty simply by hand when needed
if you have an ammeter, a voltmeter, and a stopwatch.
I keep coming back to Mark Brueggemann's cross-needle analog fuel
gauge. More info here:
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
As I understand it, this scheme compares pack voltage to current under
load, and plots this point on a 2D graph drawn with reference to your
pack's impedance at different states of charge. The color of the
region of the graph that this point lands on gives you a rough estimate
of SOC. Mark has figured out an extremely elegant way to do this with
analog hardware.
My problems with this specific design is that the meter isn't designed
for use in a vehicle, and it doesn't work when you're not moving, and
it's hard to calibrate. It doesn't necessarily work with non-lead-acid
batteries, either (not that I care about that personally). But the
basic idea seems to work well for him.
So, how about a ruggedized version of the basic hardware? Clear
instructions for calibration, and accessible knobs? And a web page that
generates the meter graphics for you if you enter the parameters? How
much would this cost? $100?
Maybe there's an analog circuit that can integrate the two signals
(volts and amps) and drive a single meter needle and perhaps a low-fuel
warning light too. Maybe this circuit could also continue to display
the last setting so it's still accurate when you're stopped. $200?
Or, the high-tech version? Something that looks like an analog fuel
gauge, but uses Mark's algorithm, implemented in a microprocessor?
Something that is easily calibrated, or better yet, calibrates itself?
$500?
We have simple voltmeters sold as SOC indicators, and Ah counters like
the Brusa BCM series and the E-Meters, but nothing in between.
There must be some reason why an EV fuel gauge based on comparing volts
and amps under load isn't already in production by someone, but I can't
think offhand what it might be. What have I missed?
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I haven't played with the new groups offered by Google. At first
pass the way they present the group msgs for reading online seems nicer
than yahoo.
Anyway, here's one google group where the folks are into diff. battery
chems, their care and feeding:
<http://groups.google.com/group/sci.chem.electrochem.battery?lnk=lr&hl=en>
or tinyurl:
http://tinyurl.com/96alc
loCk
Toronto
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Keith and All,
as torque is proportional to current, peak torque output is
probably more dependent on the controller than the motor. I have already
had to replace the input shaft bearing in my ICE Swift transmission at only
60,000miles. The mechanics who did the job said that transmission is known
to be weak.
I am planning to use a ADC L91 6.7" motor in my X1/9 with a DCP Raptor 600.
The 1500 Fiat ICE makes 87lbft peak. As you can see from the figures below
i have my fingers crossed that the Fiat trans is much stronger than the
Suzuki.
According to EVparts website
http://www.evparts.com/shopping/products/mt2114/mt2114peakmotoroutput.PDF
the L91 makes
60lbft @ 400amps (curtis 1221)
84lbft @ 500amps (curtis 1231)
150lbft @ 750amps (Raptor 600 which peaks at 900amps in motor loop)
I believe a 6.7" ADC can make more than enough torque to trash a trans
designed for a small 4 banger.
Cheers,
Justin
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.10.15/81 - Release Date: 24-08-05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" >
What I want is not an amp-hour counter but a fuel gauge.
I hear this for allot of people who have not driven an ev with e meter for 6
months , " All I want is something that will tell me how much juice I have
not allot of numbers " . This is pretty easy to make and you can use old
rpm meters , or any plane meter that masseuses milla amps . most analog
meters when you strip everything away will do. I'm going to talk about on
for 12v battery but could be used for any voltage . first you need some
zenor diodes a 9v ,10v and a 10.5v ( there cheep so even though you won't
be using both , get the to play with) . then some resistors , ( a 1k
resistor will drop 1v on a meter that takes 1 ma full scale ) . what you
want is the meter to read 0 at 10.5 volts and full scale at 15 v . Now hook
the ziner and to start 10 k and the meter all in series , getting the +'s
and -'s right . a variable power supply is needed also. Then as you turn up
the supply ,also hooked to a militia meter so you can see what voltage
your measuring . watch what you analog meter is doing and adjust it buy
adding different resistors or adding some plane diodes to raise the voltage
that the meter will read 0 at . . it takes some playing aroung to get it to
do just what you want , I would rather have a plan dmm and read numbers like
11.54 , but thats me.
I want to be
able to glance at the dashboard and get an instant picture of my state of
charge, like in a ICE car.
for now , thats what you want but later ? I can get in a car with a e meter
and if I know the type of batteries , can tell how far at what speed , I can
go and be only 5 % off , with the empty full ,empty gaigage it would take me
weeks of driving to get a feel and still not realy know . s
It doesn't have to be exact, just
informative enough to know when to turn around or start looking for an
outlet.
when I have my 2nd ev I did a 90 mile trip in it and had never done more
that 30 miles before that , my e meter said I could and I did. I knew what
speed to drive and how could adjust my speed to make it and I did. could not
have done it with just a volt meter or fuel gauge . the amp hour meter also
helps you know how your batteries and doing as they age . lots of info about
the batteries .
Fancy computers that give me detailed specs on energy consumption are a
secondary need. I will probably only want this information once in a
great while, and it can be calculated pretty simply by hand when needed if
you have an ammeter, a voltmeter, and a stopwatch.
I keep coming back to Mark Brueggemann's cross-needle analog fuel gauge.
More info here:
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html
This meter is better that the one I just decribed but you need a 2 meter
meter , I use old rpm meters that are easy to find.
As I understand it, this scheme compares pack voltage to current under
load, and plots this point on a 2D graph drawn with reference to your
pack's impedance at different states of charge. The color of the region
of the graph that this point lands on gives you a rough estimate of SOC.
Mark has figured out an extremely elegant way to do this with analog
hardware.
yes , if I ever find a 2 needel meter I'd make one ,
My problems with this specific design is that the meter isn't designed for
use in a vehicle, and it doesn't work when you're not moving, and it's
hard to calibrate.
you make it the same way as the one I described and just play with the
resistores till it dose what you want .
There must be some reason why an EV fuel gauge based on comparing volts
and amps under load isn't already in production by someone, but I can't
think offhand what it might be. What have I missed?
There are alot of little things that people can make for ev's that have not
been marked , what would you pay for somthing like this .
steve clunn > --
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Just received my EV parking sticker yesterday, for
California. This time it didn't cost anything, just
mailed in the forms from the DMV.
EV Parking sticker #221
HOV Diamond Lane Access sticker #1676
The HOV count includes CNG vehicles. But it would be
great if EV owners would at least get the parking
stickers, so we can have an official count of EVs with
the state (beyond what the DMV has for "E" mode
vehicles).
BTW, the parking sticker allows your vehicle to
legally park at any designated charging stop without
being towed. It's our de-ICEing control. If the space
is ICEd, that offending vehicle may be towed at the
vehicle owner's expense.
Keep on EVing - off to the EBEAA rally in Hayward
(which now has working AVCON charging - Chabot
College).
-Ed Thorpe
EV Ranger & AVCON-equipt Sparrow
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John,
Thanks so much. I'll pick one up on ebay this weekend. Realistically,
what type of power can be moved?
-Sam
Neon John wrote:
I have one. It's a colossal POS. It contains a very simple line
operated light dimmer affair that discharges a small cap into a coil
potted in oil inside a PVC pipe. The "voltage adjustment" isn't. Over
a few degrees of rotation, it somewhat affects the total energy
delivered but has essentially no effect on voltage.
Worse, there is no rectifier. It generates a more or less unipolar
pulse but it can't be used to charge a capacitor or much of any other
purpose other than sparking because there is a bi-directional DC path
through the secondary. A high voltage rectifier (that should be
inside the tube in the oil) is necessary to do anything useful.
I figure I can salvage the potted coil and case and build my own cap
discharge driver. Which won't resolve the other problem - the coil
arcing inside the case between terminals.
Before this devolves into another worthless thread between people who
won't do the math, it would be good to realize something. To achieve
useful power transfer across a capacitively coupled interface, one
would need very high frequency and very high voltage. NOT DC!!!! A
Tesla coil is a good example of moderate power coupling using low
frequency, very high voltage. A microwave oven is an example of using
very high frequency, low voltage. Indeed, microwaves from an oven
magnetron guided across a narrow gap to a bank of suitable diodes
would be one method of transferring moderate power across a gap. Here
is a photo of microwaves being capacitively coupled into a glass bulb
filled with neon (and my hand :-) What look like Moire' rings is
actually the microwaves affecting the digicam even though it was all
the way across the shop in full telephoto mode!
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/neon/micro_nuke.jpg
In general, voltage coupling is not the way to go.
The split core (or air core) transformer that Lee described is pretty
much the only practical method of transmitting kilowatt level power
across a gap. The gap should be as small as possible, preferably the
core halves touching or if air cored, the coils touching.
Here is a photo of a 1.5kw induction range that I have. This thing
couples the energy into the bottom of a cast iron pan that forms a one
turn shorted secondary. The very high current in the iron heats the
pan practically instantly while the top of the range remains cool.
Interestingly enough, I have fractured thin cast iron from the
magnetic forces set up in the pan by the high current. Actually, I
fractured two different ones. Each broke exactly the same way, from
the center of the pan to one edge. With the circuit broken, the pan
no longer heated very much.
http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/misc/Induction%20Range%20Internals.jpg
If the pan is replaced with a coil of wire then a transformer is
formed. In addition to the power electronics (a couple of large FETS
in a half bridge configuration and a line operated voltage
doubler/rectifier), there is an auto-tune mechanism to adjust the coil
to resonance for a variety of pot sizes. And there are rather
extensive safety circuits to protect the power stages from running
unloaded. The dark gray stuff under the coil is ferrite.
If someone wants to play with inductive coupling, an induction range
is a great place to start. I picked these up for $10 apiece surplus.
They'd been sold on QVC for about $100. These were warranty returns
and all had problems, easily fixed. Commercial grade ranges that
contain much better protective and tuning circuits, start at about
$300 and go up to a couple of grand for a 4kw version.
John
On Fri, 26 Aug 2005 23:03:24 -0500, Ryan Stotts
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you want to play with high voltage, here's a relatively low cost device:
http://www.unitednuclear.com/hvsupply.htm
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well, I know a E 1/2 F indication meter is not that accurate.
I have this in my ICE plus I have a Holly Computer that reads the numbers of
gallons to the 0.1 that flow through sender.
When my E 1/2 F meter reads F, its still reads F after I have driven 20
miles. Also when its on E, I still can drive 20 miles.
While the Holly fuel counter will start to read backwards from 20.0 to 19.9
after moving a mile and so on down to 0.0 gallons.
I had this fuel indicator in my EV when it was a series hybrid system.
With my E-meter, I program it for AH. My batteries are 260 AH. I first enter
260 AH which then counts down to about 120 AH which is normally my charge point
which is about 50% charged.
Later I enter 200 AH and charge it when its get down to 100 AH.
I find that I used about 100 AH out of the batteries before I charged so:
Now I used 100 AH and fill it up at 0 AH. Think as it is 100% to 0% gage.
Nice thing about this, I could go to
minus (-50) on the E-meter and still go.
Now when I charge the batteries, I watch the AH counter going from 0 to 100.
When its at 100, than I stop charging which is normally 15 volts per 12 volt
battery or 7.5 per 6 volt battery.
Roland
----- Original Message -----
From: STEVE CLUNN<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" >
> What I want is not an amp-hour counter but a fuel gauge.
I hear this for allot of people who have not driven an ev with e meter for 6
months , " All I want is something that will tell me how much juice I have
not allot of numbers " . This is pretty easy to make and you can use old
rpm meters , or any plane meter that masseuses milla amps . most analog
meters when you strip everything away will do. I'm going to talk about on
for 12v battery but could be used for any voltage . first you need some
zenor diodes a 9v ,10v and a 10.5v ( there cheep so even though you won't
be using both , get the to play with) . then some resistors , ( a 1k
resistor will drop 1v on a meter that takes 1 ma full scale ) . what you
want is the meter to read 0 at 10.5 volts and full scale at 15 v . Now hook
the ziner and to start 10 k and the meter all in series , getting the +'s
and -'s right . a variable power supply is needed also. Then as you turn up
the supply ,also hooked to a militia meter so you can see what voltage
your measuring . watch what you analog meter is doing and adjust it buy
adding different resistors or adding some plane diodes to raise the voltage
that the meter will read 0 at . . it takes some playing aroung to get it to
do just what you want , I would rather have a plan dmm and read numbers like
11.54 , but thats me.
I want to be
> able to glance at the dashboard and get an instant picture of my state of
> charge, like in a ICE car.
for now , thats what you want but later ? I can get in a car with a e meter
and if I know the type of batteries , can tell how far at what speed , I can
go and be only 5 % off , with the empty full ,empty gaigage it would take me
weeks of driving to get a feel and still not realy know . s
It doesn't have to be exact, just
> informative enough to know when to turn around or start looking for an
> outlet.
>
when I have my 2nd ev I did a 90 mile trip in it and had never done more
that 30 miles before that , my e meter said I could and I did. I knew what
speed to drive and how could adjust my speed to make it and I did. could not
have done it with just a volt meter or fuel gauge . the amp hour meter also
helps you know how your batteries and doing as they age . lots of info about
the batteries .
> Fancy computers that give me detailed specs on energy consumption are a
> secondary need. I will probably only want this information once in a
> great while, and it can be calculated pretty simply by hand when needed if
> you have an ammeter, a voltmeter, and a stopwatch.
>
> I keep coming back to Mark Brueggemann's cross-needle analog fuel gauge.
> More info here:
>
>
http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html<http://www.qsl.net/k5lxp/ev/evgauge/evgauge.html>
>
This meter is better that the one I just decribed but you need a 2 meter
meter , I use old rpm meters that are easy to find.
> As I understand it, this scheme compares pack voltage to current under
> load, and plots this point on a 2D graph drawn with reference to your
> pack's impedance at different states of charge. The color of the region
> of the graph that this point lands on gives you a rough estimate of SOC.
> Mark has figured out an extremely elegant way to do this with analog
> hardware.
>
yes , if I ever find a 2 needel meter I'd make one ,
> My problems with this specific design is that the meter isn't designed for
> use in a vehicle, and it doesn't work when you're not moving, and it's
> hard to calibrate.
you make it the same way as the one I described and just play with the
resistores till it dose what you want .
> There must be some reason why an EV fuel gauge based on comparing volts
> and amps under load isn't already in production by someone, but I can't
> think offhand what it might be. What have I missed?
>
There are alot of little things that people can make for ev's that have not
been marked , what would you pay for somthing like this .
steve clunn > --
> Doug Weathers
> Bend, OR, USA
> http://learn-something.blogsite.org<http://learn-something.blogsite.org/>
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Justin Southam wrote:
60lbft @ 400amps (curtis 1221)
84lbft @ 500amps (curtis 1231)
150lbft @ 750amps (Raptor 600 which peaks at 900amps in motor loop)
Where did you hear that Raptor 600s will do 900 motor Amps? The one I
owned _never_ did more than 600 Amps in the motor loop.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi,
Ryan Stotts wrote:
What is it anyways?
Umm, haven't you already answered this yourself? It's a Switch Mode
Power Supply DC/DC converter.
Was it the best
DC/DC converter ever made?
Based on the one I own, I'd say certainly not, at least not for EV use.
It's problems include making annoying noises when lightly loaded, having
terrible reaction times to changing loads and transient voltages, having
a narrow input voltage range, and being built such that it is completely
unprotected from the elements.
--
-Nick
http://Go.DriveEV.com/
1988 Jeep Cherokee 4x4 EV
---------------------------
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I have a Palm M100 with a serial port cable. I synched it up to my computer so
I know it works. My emeter has the RS232 so I tried to use it. The
Emeter/Link10 was only on 12 volts of batteries.
I started up the EVDash Program and it just shows 0's like it isn't getting any
data. Reading through the emeter guide there is no switch to turn on the port
it always is on. Is there something I need to do to the input cable to work?
THe PalmM100 I bought specifically for that and I have nothing else to connect
to the emeter to try it out.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You'll probably need to tell it where to get it's data from (RS232) and what
information to dispaly, but that's just a guess, I don't know a thing about
that particular piece of software but from my experience, you have to tell
the software where to look for the input and what you want it to do with
that input.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:29 AM
Subject: Emeter RS232 - Palm M100 EVDash?
I have a Palm M100 with a serial port cable. I synched it up to my computer
so I know it works. My emeter has the RS232 so I tried to use it. The
Emeter/Link10 was only on 12 volts of batteries.
I started up the EVDash Program and it just shows 0's like it isn't
getting any data. Reading through the emeter guide there is no switch to
turn on the port it always is on. Is there something I need to do to the
input cable to work?
THe PalmM100 I bought specifically for that and I have nothing else to
connect to the emeter to try it out.
Thanks,
Mark Hastings
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Sat, 27 Aug 2005 10:40:43 -0400, Sam Harper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>John,
>Thanks so much. I'll pick one up on ebay this weekend. Realistically,
>what type of power can be moved?
If both primary and secondary are tuned and the coupling is tight,
then the majority of the available power should be transferable. Other
than making a "really kewl" RF jacob's ladder on top of a range (it
quietly hisses instead of buzzing), I haven't experimented much with
this aspect so I can't give details. But this is pretty basic stuff
so there should not be any surprises. Maybe someone could build a
SPICE model?
High power levels of RF energy can be transmitted over a considerable
distance. At WWVB, the station that transmits the time code that all
our "atomic clocks" use, the final antenna tuner variometer has a gap
between the coils of several feet. There are some great photos here.
http://tf.nist.gov/timefreq/stations/wwvb.htm
That transmitter cranks about 38kw to the antenna at 60khz.
Do note the use of Litz wire on the induction coil. This is a
collection of individually insulated wires twisted to make a whole.
This design maximizes the surface area and therefore the skin area for
the RF current to flow. This is very necessary for the secondary too.
You can make Litz from magnet wire or you can buy it already made. The
SMPS people discovered this very old technology long ago.
If I were doing this, I'd experiment with an induction range, analyze
and learn the internal design and then build a scaled up version of
appropriate power for EV use. I think I've seen a commercial range of
7kw power but that's about it. Still fairly puny as EV chargers go.
Unfortunately, a range of that power would cost about as much as a
Rudman PFC charger.
Just to dig up another old "discussion" :-), this would be a match
made in heaven for a tube type transmitter. 50 and even 100kw
transmitting tubes are at least as cheap as a power FET module on the
surplus market. As are high voltage power supplies out of old
tube-type broadcast transmitters. A 25kw inductive charger could be
built for hundreds of dollars of careful shopping, using a tube that
would be loafing at that power level. The big power ceramic tubes by
Varian et al frequently show up on the surplus market. Varian and
others can take these apart and rebuild them for nominal fees so even
a bad tube is a good deal.
I have a pair of Varian 4CX50000's (50kw plate rating) somewhere
around here that came out of a TV transmitter in Atlanta. They're a
little down on power but still fine for something like this. When I
get a round tuit and when I find some sockets.
Oh, one minor correction. I sed....
>> Here
>>is a photo of microwaves being capacitively coupled into a glass bulb
>>filled with neon (and my hand :-) What look like Moire' rings is
>>actually the microwaves affecting the digicam even though it was all
>>the way across the shop in full telephoto mode!
>>
>>http://bellsouthpwp.net/j/o/johngd/files/neon/micro_nuke.jpg
That should be Newton Rings. Sorry about that. I had my mind on
something else at the time.
John
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 26, 2005, at 10:41 AM, Ryan Stotts wrote:
Paul wrote:
Who made this thing? What's the history on it? Is it still being
made? Where can it be bought?
Actually I didn't write that - I responded to it. There is a problem
with thread because my only line was the one below this.
It was built by Todd Engineering.
Now the problem. What we are looking at are AC to DC converters. Many
have the ability to do DC to DC but some don't - you need to know this
first. Another important consideration is what DC voltage they require.
Many converters that can do both AC to DC and DC to DC have a simple
rectifier front end. They are expecting around 160 volts DC from the AC
line (bad power factor.) If you take the minimum AC voltage of these
units and multiply it by 1.4 you will have an idea of their minimum DC
input voltage. So if its 105vac minimum then you need 147 DC volts as a
minimum (though some may work under spec minimum voltage.) Todd
produced an LV line, these offered less current than their same size
standard AC line models but worked down to 95 volts DC (down to about
68vac.) The Todd PCxx-LV models are the ones so desired for EV service
(unless you have a high voltage EV.)
I suspect that standard Todd units could take 200 volts peak input
voltage (except for the less common 240vac Todds and the late issue
voltage doubler front end Todds.) At any rate I would be very confident
saying the standard Todd converters often used in EV service can take
180 peak input volts.
Paul "neon" G.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I selected serial from the EVDash software and tried new and record and the
menu items. That is why I'm wondering if it is a hardware/cable problem. Or
maybe my emeters RS232 port is just a decoration.
Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:You'll probably need to tell it where to
get it's data from (RS232) and what
information to dispaly, but that's just a guess, I don't know a thing about
that particular piece of software but from my experience, you have to tell
the software where to look for the input and what you want it to do with
that input.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings"
To:
Sent: Saturday, August 27, 2005 11:29 AM
Subject: Emeter RS232 - Palm M100 EVDash?
>I have a Palm M100 with a serial port cable. I synched it up to my computer
>so I know it works. My emeter has the RS232 so I tried to use it. The
>Emeter/Link10 was only on 12 volts of batteries.
> I started up the EVDash Program and it just shows 0's like it isn't
> getting any data. Reading through the emeter guide there is no switch to
> turn on the port it always is on. Is there something I need to do to the
> input cable to work?
> THe PalmM100 I bought specifically for that and I have nothing else to
> connect to the emeter to try it out.
>
> Thanks,
> Mark Hastings
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Osmo Sarin wrote:
> Trying to make my mind whether to use AC or DC motor in my first
> conversion (yes, the holy battle again...).
Sort of depends on what's available to you and the prices. Have you
located any AC motors and inverters and seen their prices?
> So, I suppose high voltage/low currence is more dangerous than low
> voltage/high currence? But is there any major difference in let say
> 200-400 V range?
You don't want to get shocked at any voltage level.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I tried the same with a Palm M105 a couple years ago.
I had the same experience.
I then emailed Peter Ohler who wrote the EVdash program and found that it
hasn't been updated since it was compiled for PALM-OSv1.0.
My 4yr old Palm M105 uses Palm-OSv3.5, as I suspect yours does probably.
I think that's why they don't work.
I bought Code Warrior for the Palm and tried to recompile the EVdash for
v3.5, but resource and name changes since v1.0 require some code rewriting
and I didn't get far before I had to go on to other things.
Anyway, until the code is recompiled for OSv3.5, it's probably not worth
attempting to run EVdash again on your Palm.
-Myles Twete, Portland, Or.
--- End Message ---
