EV Digest 4629
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: Seattle area EV-savvy mechanics?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Brush Advance
by "Mark Thomasson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: Brush Advance
by Bob Bath <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Power Steering
by "David (Battery Boy) Hawkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) RE: Solectria E-10 manual?
by "Don Buckshot" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
by "STEVE CLUNN" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Exide/Optima compatibility
by "John Bisby" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) RE: "2nd Generation High Current Lithium Batteries"
by "Mark Fowler" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: E-Vision
by Ken Trough <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Re: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
by Otmar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: Exide/Optima compatibility
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: 110 V a/c in EV
by Evan Tuer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Exide/Optima compatibility
by "djsharpe" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Worth buying?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Worth buying?
by Bruce Weisenberger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) RE: 110 V a/c in EV
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) RE: Worth buying?
by "Stu or Jan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: 330V DC/DCs on eBay
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) RE: Worth buying?
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Worth buying?
by "Adams, Lynn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Fw: New battery technology
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Electric jeep 4 sale
by "Mark Hanson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Todd DC/DC Converter
by Martin Klingensmith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Advanced DC K91-4003 motor, 48-96VDC, single shaft, 6.7" diam., 8 HP
by "Peter Perkins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Victor,
A common technique we use in computing is to separate the presentation of
information from the storage or manipulation of information itself. For
example, capturing the current flow and storing it is left up to one area of
electronics & software, and the display of this information is left up to a
very separate portion of electronics & software.
If you keep this in mind with your design, you will be "agile" and be able
to take quickly take advantage of new user interfaces when they become
available (or be able to react quickly if a supplier goes bankrupt).
The same technique is used for storage devices. I am not a huge fan of SD
medium, but as you point out - what alternatives are there (RS232, USB,
wireless, bluetooth)? All have their pros and cons. If you design your
circuits and software to isolate the storage medium, it will make it easier
to change technology in the future.
In enterprise architecture it is very common to separate these "areas of
concern". A typical pattern is:
data - voltage, current, temp, etc.
presentation of data - lcd "gauges", readouts, flashing lights
control of the presentation - user pressing buttons, warnings
data storage - saving the data to a medium
modification of data - calculations of energy use, "fuel gauge"
external interfaces - sensors, external computers, GPS, etc.
I am sure you already know of these concepts in one way or another - this is
just another way of looking at it.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: August 25, 2005 6:24 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted.
Thanks for info Lee, my comments inserted
Lee Hart wrote:
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
>
>>I don't believe 3-5mA from the traction pack is too much...
>
>
> Probably not. 5ma for 6 months is 21.6 amphours. No EV should sit that
> long without charging. So 5ma is ok for packs with batteries of larger
> than this capacity (assuming the 5ma is the total load).
I think it is safe to assume that 5mA is close to the rate of
self-discharge. If you leave your charged EV for half year with disconnected
pack, how much capacity do you expect to see when you power it up for the
first time after such break?
>
>>I can only see how much standby power it will use, provided some
>>design efforts are taken to reduce it. Will see.
>
> Be aware than CANbus is not a low-power bus. The micros needed to
> support it are not low-power, either.
>
You'll need to refresh your info about these. You possess encyclopedic
knowledge already (seriously!) but if you test the bus, you will see it
works in bursts and you can control sleep time. Average power consumption is
low.
This plot is not the best representation of what I mean, (I have it uploaded
for other reason), but the "pauses"
before and after these command bursts are hundreds of ms and transceivers
sleep in between:
http://www.metricmind.com/misc/scope/lecroy.png
>
>>I don't have "prescaler", people so get use to this idea that can't
>>easily free up their mind of it.
>
> By "shunt" and "prescaler" I was just using common terms to mean
> "whatever black box measures current" and "whatever black box measures
> voltage".
OK, got it.
> I designed EVILbus because I didn't find that CANbus (or any other bus
> I know of) to be suitable for this purpose. CANbus for example is a
> non-isolated, high-speed, computer-intensive bus for low-noise
> environments.
Lee, you're seriously laking knowledge in this particular area (which is
OK!, I hope I don't sound rude)
CAN was designed to work in the noisiest environments in industry machinery,
specifically - in cars. It is fast bus but can be arbitrarily slow if you
want. But it's like wanting slow computer - there are plenty around but no
one (normally) wants them.
Non- isolated is just one implementation using cheap twisted pair. The fact
is, CAN standard does not specify physical medium, it specifies protocol
only. IF you want to use fiber - fine, no other component in the system
[than transceiver dealing directly with medium] have to be changed or even
know about it.
> I know you like CAN, so it's pointless to argue.
I'm not arguing, and I like RS232 too. I like EVil bus for what it is.
Trouble is - you can't address it, it is not correcting errors, it does not
checks for validity of the information, does not re-send info if any errors
are present unless your software deals with it.
So EVil bus doesn't do what I need, but it did what you needed it to do when
you designed it.
In case of CAN this is dealt on the hardware level and checking is
implemented in silicon, I don't need any software.
So it's not that I use it just because I like it, I have good technical
reasons for it.
> But I would be curious
> to know how you will address the above issues.
We can take it off list, it's too specific, but I'd be happy to share the
info I know.
> Which CAN standard are you using?
CAN2.0b
> What is the number of the standard, and where is it documented?
Perhaps this is the best place to start:
http://www.kvaser.se/can/
> Is it a public standard, or trade secret standard (internal to some
> company) that anyone will have to pay or license to use?
I don't know legal details, but you don't have to pay to use it.
It was developed by Bosch holding rights and ownership for it.
But CAN nodes sold free of any licensing obligations by many companies all
over.
> Any idea of the power consumption or cost per node?
Depends on the implementation, transceiver type and what else in on the node
(controller).
> Are any products except your allowed to connect to it?
Unlike your EVil bus regbus or whatever else bus, *any* standard CAN product
can be connected to it, including CAN traffic analyzers. This is how BRUSA
charger is connected to it in my BMS right now.
Particular product's CAN matrix is no secret, you can download one, say for
BRUSA charger from their (or my) web page and make a gadget controlling it.
Same with EVision - if someone wants to hook to the bus anything else useful
they come up with (like web reporting or wireless things people is talking
about) - by all means.
>
>>It was perhaps simpler for you to come up with your own design than
>>master how to use existing one.
>
> No; not simpler. I did research many buses, looking for something that
> would work. I would much rather use existing hardware than build my own!
>
I think EVil bus worked for your application the best because you had very
modest requirements for it.
>
> Sounds like another holy war, Victor; I'm not going there. You will
> use CAN no matter what, that's fine; so no point in debating it. I'm
> just asking how you are going to deal with the power, cost, noise, and
> isolation issues. I couldn't see any way to get an isolated low-power
> CANbus node for under $20/node; whereas the EVILbus is more like
> $2/node.
>
No wars Lee. I already told you why I use it.
You make it sound that "I'll use it no matter what"
just because I'm stubborn while other better solutions (like EVil) bus
exist.
Let me know how to connect my off-shelf GPS module and my off-shelf charger
to EVil bus and then we can return to this selection choice.
>
>>EVIL bus works for what you need because all you need is in your own
>>EV in your garage. Outside that the world doesn't know about EVIL bus,
>>open published specs or not.
>
> Correct. Nobody knows your bus, either.
>
Lee, Lee, You're demonstrating your total ignorance here!
Please don't say it out loud.
It is not my bus, it is Bosch's bus. Robert Bosch was a genious when he came
up with message based system, not address/data system flavor everyone in
computing worls got use to.
Every automotive electronics engineer knows about this standard, *every*
modern vehicle takes advantage of it.
>
> For example, the Tango modular chargers each measure battery voltage,
> battery current, battery temperature, pack voltage, charger
> temperature, read two switches, and drive an LED and piezoelectric
> speaker. That's 9 device per node. There are 26 such nodes in a
> 25-battery car; 234 devices altogether. Mostly, you don't display any
> of this information; it's just used "behind the scenes" to keep all
> the batteries charged and balanced. How would you approach such a problem
with your system?
I assume you're now asking about BMS, not EVision.
My individual cell modules read voltage, 3 temperatures *per cell* (two of
which can be its terminals to detect loose connections), drive boost or
shunt circuit and 3 indication LEDs. This is all I want to know about
individual cells using "local" hardware. I don't have any switches, no need
to read them, but if I did, there is no problem. The battery current is
known at any moment from the shunt. Charger temp, power, voltage, current,
mains power, and other parameters are requested over bus by the BMS. Ah, Wh
and other statistics are tracked by the main controller. Extra boost and
shunt current is fixed, so I know amounts of individual Ah put in or taken
out (+/- some error of course).
> That's fine for a manufacturer. He can change designs every few months.
> What about the customer that has last month's system, and now can't
> get parts or support for it?
If you want to go tthere, Lee, my own life expectancy is perhaps 30 years,
hopefully some more.
In worst case, I can handle to be burned 3 more times during otherwise happy
rest of my life, if once every 10 years something unexpectedly disappears
from the market.
If you afraid SD card won't be around in 10 years, buy a few today.
But you don't have to use it. You can lag a laptop with you and the amount
of info you can store then is limited by your hard disk's size.
I just made this choice because SD card is very widely used in many more
consumer products than computers already.
It can well be wrong choice. Criticizing is easy, please suggest better
choice, I respect your opinion and am listening.
What should I use if I want (this wish is given) wirelessly collect data
from my EV and update the software/look up data?
>
> I didn't say 50 years. The EV itself won't last that long. But cars
> *do* last 10+years -- so I would restrict myself to parts and
> technologies that can be reasonably expected to last that long. The
> easiest indicator is, "Has it already been around 10 years? Then it
> has a good chance to be around for another 10 years."
I don't know Lee. SD cards were NOT around for 10 years and so were not CD
and DVD either. That does not prevent people buying them today. BTW, just
curious, do you have one?
So, again, I reasonably expect SD card as a storage medium to be on the
market at least for 10 years. If it disappears but I have few (they don't
practically wear out) I'm all set. But you know what? If it disappears, the
SD card reader is just another CAN node on the bus. Unhook it and hook up
another storage - a laptop with CAN interface or a hard disk if you like.
>
> I pick parts that have multiple sources, so if one manufacturer drops
> it, there are other sources. I use parts that have already been on the
> market for years years, and are widely used by many customers already.
> I use generic parts rather than highly specialized parts. I use parts
> for which real-world life data exists, not just theoretical marketing
> projections. These all help.
I wholeheartly agree. The most specialized part of the BMS I use is 240x64
LCD display. Only handful manufacturers offer it.
I use Optrex one, but if it quits manufacturing, Sharp, Seiko and Lumex make
similar ones too, but the driver most likely will have to be re-written.
This part is my biggest fear, but not *that* much - display module, again,
is just another independent CAN node in the system.
All other parts I use are generic enough.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This could be the pot box , what kind of controller , pot box do you have .
??
you can take a ohm meter (dmm) and check it .
PS - For anyone interested, details of the problem(s):
On our second(!) trip in town, the controller appeared to "stick" on,
which I noticed coming up to a stoplight. Put on the breaks and turned off
the ignition. Turning ignition back on fixed the controller's behavior at
the time, but the motor subsequently ran slower and slower, behaving as if
there was increasing drag (and indeed, an increasing cyclical vibration
from the FWD front end). Ended up having it towed home rather than risk
trying to limp any further. Now, when the ignition turns on (and without
use of the accelerator!), the motor starts turning slowly - I can see the
shaft slowly turning - but does not turn the transmission shaft despite
being in gear.
you mean the motor is trunning and the transmission is in gear but its not
moving ?
FWIW, I've found no loose
connections in the battery pack, which I thought might have been
responsible for the bad controller behavior.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
When advancing the brushes on DC motors, do the brushes move in the
direction of motor rotation or against rotation? Thanks, Mark T
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark, it was a long time ago when I did this
operation, but here's what I remember:
With Honda, you need to advance the brushes in the
clockwise direction, and make certain your A1 is
connected to S2, as the Honda driveshafts rotate
opposite of most all other vehicles on the road
through at least 1995. To do this, go to the
commutator end of the motor, and push the brush
springs behind the little retainer bars that were made
for this purpose. Next, remove the (4) 1/4" x 20
screws holding the casting on. Nudge the housing back
about 1 cm. You should be able to turn the casting 34
degrees clockwise. Back out the allen screws sitting
in the holes. (Sometimes they're located pretty
deep). You can now put the allen screws in the
counterclockwise settings (the retard position).
I hope that wasn't a "Microsoft answer" (technically
correct, but not helpful to the issue you're
addressing)...
(;-p
peace,
--- Mark Thomasson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> When advancing the brushes on DC motors, do the
> brushes move in the
> direction of motor rotation or against rotation?
> Thanks, Mark T
>
>
'92 Honda Civic sedan, 144V
____
__/__|__\ __
=D-------/ - - \
'O'-----'O'-'
Would you still drive your car if the tailpipe came out of the steering wheel?
Are you saving any gas for your kids?
____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan,
No, an S10 manual gearbox is not like having power steering, and I have big
forearms to prove it!
BB
>Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2005 21:17:22 -0500
>From: Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
<snipage>
>Try and get a rebuilt one from the auto parts store or get one from a
>junk yard(will be cheapest way). With a proper manual box, it will
>feel just like power steering(or very close).
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jacob,
Do you now have an E-10?
I recently sold mine and have the original manual.
Mine is a 5th edition, 52 pages, for a 1995 truck.
Could you deal with .jpg images? I've considered scanning it so that I would
be protected against loss of the original.
Don Buckshot
Kansas City, Missouri
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Behalf Of Jacob
Sent: Monday, August 22, 2005 11:55 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Solectria E-10 manual?
Hi all, if any one of you has a Solectria E-10 owners manual, I'd happily
pay you to copy it (including your time) and have it shipped. Thanks
Jacob Harris
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Well testing is probable the best way , no no just joking , but this is the
contactor Otmar uses so its been tested to some point .
----- Original Message -----
From: "Eric Poulsen" <
So ... the 200A continuous rating is really conservative? I guess my
question should be: What's the failure mode when exceeding the 200A
rating of the albright reversing contactor? The rating is continuous,
not make/break.
Just seems the motor-side contactor should be considerably beefier
(amp-wise) than the battery-side.
but the motor side voltage is lower most of the time and all switching is
done under no load.
STEVE CLUNN wrote:
The thing with the contactors rating is that in EV's under normal
conductions they are not opened or closed under load , . The one problem
I see it that if you push to much current through them they might weld
together and not open when you want them to . With the reversing
contactor this wouldn't be to bad as you would just go forward but on the
battery side it could be a problem . If you have 2 one on the pos and one
on the neg side of you pack , you would be covered with one not opening
. I have had my share of things going wrong but have never had a problem
with this , and use the Albright sw200 alot.
steve clunn
----- Original Message ----- From: "Eric Poulsen" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 11:21 AM
Subject: Reversing contactors -- Am I missing something?
As I understand it, for a main contactor, something like the Kilovac
EV200 (Czonka III) is quite capable of handling the Battery -->
controller current. The motor current is considerably higher, depending
on the controller.
The part I don't understand is that the EV200 is rated at 200A
continuous, while the reversing contactors I see available (Albright
SW202) are rated at 250A continuous, 360A intermittent which seems
really really low if you're using something like a Z1K.
Am I missing something fundamental? Are reversing contactors generally
only used for lower-powered vehicles? Or do people simply run them past
their rated current regularly?
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
My Daihatsu EV is due for battery pack replacement. Currently on it's third
pack of Y/T's in 7 years / 63,000km.
I am considering using Exide XCD replacements. Does anyone know if they are
dimensionally equivalent, not just the foot print but the top periphery as well?
I know Exide has had reliability problems in the past, so how do these XCD
units hold up?
John Bisby
Perth, Western Australia.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
They don't seem that great.
Max discharge of 3C, recommended discharge of 1/3C.
No info on how much they sag under load (I only looked quickly, though)
Quite a bit more expensive than TS cells. ($500 for 80Ah - yow)
But, they also have a BMS and charger for sale.
Mark
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Ryan Stotts
Sent: Thursday, 25 August 2005 5:02 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: "2nd Generation High Current Lithium Batteries"
Anyone noticed these before?
http://www.powerstream.com/LLL.htm
Prices listed too..
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I've long wanted to get ahold of some color transflectives,
but never found much for parts sources, the price was quite
high, and it still needed an external controller.
Here's some links that might be helpful:
http://tinyurl.com/8zxxg
http://tinyurl.com/b4nfl
http://tinyurl.com/9gx2f
http://tinyurl.com/5mrj4
Hope this helps!
-Ken Trough
Admin - V is for Voltage Magazine
http://visforvoltage.com
AIM - ktrough
FAX/voice message - 206-339-VOLT (8658)
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At 1:39 PM -0700 8/25/05, Eric Poulsen wrote:
So ... the 200A continuous rating is really conservative?
It has a time component. You need to look at the curves that allow
higher current for shorter times.
At 5:12 PM -0500 8/25/05, STEVE CLUNN wrote:
Well testing is probable the best way , no no just joking , but this
is the contactor Otmar uses so its been tested to some point .
Yes testing is good.
I use three sets of SW202a contactors on the motor loop of my Porsche
914. This runs two 8" motors, a Z2K and twenty Orbitals in series.
The drivetrain is strong enough to accept full torque so I don't
bother to treat it nicely.
Back when I had Optimas I ran up to 1500 motor Amp drag racing bursts
(2000 amps in parallel) I had no trouble.
With the Orbitals at 1900 amps (series) I got a few times when the
contacts welded. Fortunately the Hairball just turns them all off
when that happens so no major smoke happened then.
Then recently I was testing (without the Hairball contactor control)
and accidentally threw the car in reverse at about 30 mph, several
times. This of course locks up the tires and puts a lot of stress on
the contactors. It doesn't help that I went ahead and switched it
back to forward while under very high load. This also arcs them
pretty badly. I didn't think much of it, but lately I noticed that
there is a lot of carbon around the contactors and the tips look like
they really should not be handling the current that they still seem
to hold. These are some pretty amazingly rugged contactors. Still, I
don't rely on them for breaking high voltage safely, just motor
switching which is normally done cold.
I'm trying to get new tips so I can clean the carbon off and do it
all again. Those poor contactors :-)
--
-Otmar-
http://www.CafeElectric.com/ Home of the Zilla.
http://www.evcl.com/914 My electric 914
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On Aug 25, 2005, at 11:22 PM, John Bisby wrote:
My Daihatsu EV is due for battery pack replacement. Currently on it's
third pack of Y/T's in 7 years / 63,000km.
I am considering using Exide XCD replacements. Does anyone know if
they are dimensionally equivalent, not just the foot print but the top
periphery as well?
They're pretty close, but they're definitely not the same. Depending
on your battery boxes you may have problems.
My EV design (still in progress) started out with the assumption that I
would be using Optima yellow tops. I worked out the design of the
battery boxes, then changed my mind and decided to get the slightly
cheaper and stiffer Exides. I had to completely throw out the old
battery box design.
The Exide XCD is slightly taller, and the top is more square (the
corners have a smaller radius). My original plan had allthread
hold-downs in the space left where the corners of the Optimas come
together; so much for that. Also, the posts on the Exide are much
closer to the edge of the battery, making it tricky to engineer battery
hold-downs made out of angle iron that don't touch the posts. There
goes that idea, too.
The Exide has plastic feet at the bottom that stick out of the long
sides of the battery. I think this is supposed to be part of a
mounting scheme, where a bolt tightens a washer against the foot. This
wouldn't be very workable if the batteries are tight up against each
other. (I couldn't figure out a nice way to make this work, but
perhaps you can.) The feet make the bottom of the battery a bit
larger, but since the blue top sticks out further than the feet they
don't increase the overall footprint. If it should be a problem in
your design, however, you can do what John Wayland did and cut off the
feet with a table saw.
I have read on the list that the Exides with the side terminals don't
fit together very well. The side terminals take up too much room. I
didn't buy those (so can't comment further); I bought the marine
version instead, which has two sets of posts on the tops (standard
automotive, and a set of stud terminals). The studs on top would make
it tricky (impossible?) to hold the battery down with a bar across the
long axis, unlike the Optimas which have the top studs off to one side.
Now the good news.
The Exides have clever built-in handles that fold down like the handles
in a shopping basket. These make it really easy to move them around.
The stud terminals are a great place to hook up Rudman Regulators on
top of the batteries.
As far as holding the batteries down, the Exides have two holes clean
through them from top to bottom! You can just bolt them down directly
to whatever surface you like. (I bought some 8-inch long 5/16 hex head
bolts from Fastenal.) You don't actually need boxes at all, just a
flat spot. The batteries work on their side, so you can bolt them to
vertical surfaces too.
As a finishing touch, I got a local metal shop to cut me some 5 inch
squares of steel to act as washers to distribute the force from the
bolts more evenly. I drilled holes for the bolts. I also drilled
holes over the battery's vent openings, and then four mounting holes
for the Rudman Regulators. Makes a nice package - the Regulator
mounted to the steel plate, and the steel plate holding down the
battery.
I strongly suggest getting your hands on an Exide so you can see all
this for yourself. You could bring an Optima into an Exide battery
dealer and examine their empty demonstrator/display battery and compare
the two, or perhaps you could get hold of a dead one and take it home.
I just bought a good one and took it home to study. A digital caliper
was also very handy in getting dimensions. (The bolt hole centers are
3.1 inches apart, for example.)
There are two people I know of who changed from Optimas to Exides
before me - John Wayland I've already mentioned. Otmar also did it in
his race car, and he had problems with the extra height of the Exides.
You might check the list archives for more details.
If there's interest, I'll post some pictures of what I've done so far.
I can also post measurements if it would be helpful, but nothing beats
actually having one in your garage.
I know Exide has had reliability problems in the past, so how do these
XCD units hold up?
We're not sure yet. That's another one of the reasons I chose the
Exide - so I can gather some data on this battery and provide it to the
EV community. The early returns look good, though. The folks who are
racing with them (John, Otmar, Roderick, Rich, others?) get more amps
out of them than they used to with Optimas, and I don't know of any
failures yet. I'm hoping that longevity is at least comparable to the
Optimas, but we'll see.
John Bisby
Perth, Western Australia.
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
On 8/26/05, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Question: The inverter connects the a/c neutral and ground to chassis. I
> would rather have a 'floating' design, i.e. nothing is connected to the
> chassis. So, I mounted the inverter on rubber 'sockets'. I also opened the
> a/c and disconnected the ground from the a/c. Would you consider something
> like I did to be safe? Or should I add a 1 to 1 transformer to
> additionally disconnect the 110 AC from the chassis?
If you want it to be floating, I'd put the inverter in a plastic box
as well. Otherwise, if a ground fault develops allowing "hot" to be
connected to the chassis somewhere, you won't notice it because
there's no return path (the fuse won't blow) and then next time
someone touches the inverter case and the car chassis at the same time
they'll find out.
If you use a transformer, you could get one with a centre-tapped
secondary and connect the centre tap to ground, then you've got two
"safe" 55v legs and a return path for fault current.
But this is all adding weight to the vehicle and to be honest, I can't
think why you'd want to have it floating really.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
John
I have a Daihatsu myself that I bought from the CSIRO. It has 36 off
32Ahr Panasonic batts. 144V. I will need to replace these myself soon.
In my opinion these AGM bats are not ideal. You have been getting only
2.3 years each on av. I think the way is to go NiMH. The main problem is
the charging of the numerous strings that are needed. There is a
solution though. You can contact me direct if you wish. I have seen your
vehicle in the photo gallery. Looks good.
Regards
David (in Melbourne)
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of John Bisby
Sent: Friday, 26 August 2005 4:22 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Exide/Optima compatibility
My Daihatsu EV is due for battery pack replacement. Currently on it's
third pack of Y/T's in 7 years / 63,000km.
I am considering using Exide XCD replacements. Does anyone know if they
are dimensionally equivalent, not just the foot print but the top
periphery as well?
I know Exide has had reliability problems in the past, so how do these
XCD units hold up?
John Bisby
Perth, Western Australia.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I saw an ad for a 1980 converted Horizon with a 23 HP GE motor, a GE EV-1
controller, and a 220 Volt on board charger.
I do not know if the seller would remove these components and sell them but
if he would, would they be a good choice even though they are 25 years old?
BoyntonStu
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Where is the AD? Is it online? Where abouts is the vehicle?
And last how much are they asking?
Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I saw an ad for a 1980 converted Horizon with a 23 HP GE motor, a GE EV-1
controller, and a 220 Volt on board charger.
I do not know if the seller would remove these components and sell them but
if he would, would they be a good choice even though they are 25 years old?
BoyntonStu
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
What size A/C?
What vehicle is it in?
How well does it cool?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Evan Tuer
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 4:57 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: 110 V a/c in EV
On 8/26/05, Michaela Merz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Question: The inverter connects the a/c neutral and ground to chassis. I
> would rather have a 'floating' design, i.e. nothing is connected to the
> chassis. So, I mounted the inverter on rubber 'sockets'. I also opened the
> a/c and disconnected the ground from the a/c. Would you consider something
> like I did to be safe? Or should I add a 1 to 1 transformer to
> additionally disconnect the 110 AC from the chassis?
If you want it to be floating, I'd put the inverter in a plastic box
as well. Otherwise, if a ground fault develops allowing "hot" to be
connected to the chassis somewhere, you won't notice it because
there's no return path (the fuse won't blow) and then next time
someone touches the inverter case and the car chassis at the same time
they'll find out.
If you use a transformer, you could get one with a centre-tapped
secondary and connect the centre tap to ground, then you've got two
"safe" 55v legs and a return path for fault current.
But this is all adding weight to the vehicle and to be honest, I can't
think why you'd want to have it floating really.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It is a secret. He wants about $1,000. Is it worth that?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 9:25 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Worth buying?
Where is the AD? Is it online? Where abouts is the vehicle?
And last how much are they asking?
Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I saw an ad for a 1980 converted Horizon with a 23 HP GE motor, a GE EV-1
controller, and a 220 Volt on board charger.
I do not know if the seller would remove these components and sell them but
if he would, would they be a good choice even though they are 25 years old?
BoyntonStu
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I bought one of these a while back. (same company)
I have yet to power it up. It was pointed out to me that it needs some
support circutry and a good heatsink to make a working dc-dc out of it.
(I need to re-ask Lee about this, or search through an old HD to find
what he told me I need, hint hint)
They talk about 300V families and 375V families on vicors site
300V 180V - 375V input range 100ms 400V surge
375V 250V - 425V 100ms 500V surge
I am gonna guess that the modules we have, which were a special order
for the military(vicor will make to order) are half way between these 2,
but closer to the 375V family because of the higher wattage rating. My
WAG tells me i would need at least 220V to keep the dc-dc from cutting
out and should use it on a 300V pack to handle end of charge and pack
sag voltages.
when it arrived my first impression was huh? you got to be kidding me!
It is very very compact.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Stu and All,
Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
It is a secret. He wants about $1,000. Is it worth that?
I'd buy it and use it as it is if running. The EV-1 is an old but
good controller, the GE an excellent motor and you have given no clue on the
battery charger so who knows. Since the Horizon used a VW transmission, the
adaptor plate, ect should would with a VW Rabbit, ect. if the body is trashed.
Can you see, test it? Or is it too far away?
Jerry Dycus
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 9:25 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Worth buying?
Where is the AD? Is it online? Where abouts is the vehicle?
And last how much are they asking?
Stu or Jan wrote:
I saw an ad for a 1980 converted Horizon with a 23 HP GE motor, a GE EV-1
controller, and a 220 Volt on board charger.
I do not know if the seller would remove these components and sell them but
if he would, would they be a good choice even though they are 25 years old?
BoyntonStu
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
If they are in working condition, yes.
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Stu or Jan
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 7:54 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: RE: Worth buying?
It is a secret. He wants about $1,000. Is it worth that?
BoyntonStu
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Bruce Weisenberger
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 9:25 AM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: Worth buying?
Where is the AD? Is it online? Where abouts is the vehicle?
And last how much are they asking?
Stu or Jan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I saw an ad for a 1980 converted Horizon with a 23 HP GE motor, a GE
EV-1 controller, and a 220 Volt on board charger.
I do not know if the seller would remove these components and sell them
but if he would, would they be a good choice even though they are 25
years old?
BoyntonStu
Future 72 Super Beetle conversion in progress
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Watt do you think? Looks promising, Mark
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,68631,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_1
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi, if interested, here's the link to my EV on ebay or if you have any listing
suggestions for tweaking the ad, please let me know. Getting a Bombardier this
week-end.
Thanks, Mark
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ru=http%3A%2F%2Fsearch.ebay.com%3A80%2Fsearch%2Fsearch.dll%3Fcgiurl%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252Fws%252F%26fkr%3D1%26from%3DR8%26satitle%3D4571532074%26fvi%3D1&item=4571532074
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ryan Stotts wrote:
How hard is it to make a current, modern DC/DC that meets today's
higher voltage needs? Is anybody working on one?
I am not working on one currently but it is something I would like to do
when I'm done with school. Integrated SMPS controls are getting better
with every offering from TI/ON/IRF/etc. It is not hard to design one but
it is going to be hard to make a reliable DC/DC that can work in an
automotive environment that doesn't break the bank.
I should not say it is not hard to design one as it depends on the
experience you have with electronics.
--
Martin Klingensmith
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Advanced DC K91-4003 motor, 48-96VDC, single shaft, 6.7" diam., 8 HP
Can anyone tell me the default brush configuration for this motor as
supplied by ADC?
Neutral?
Advanced?
Retarded?
Direction of rotation?
Can brush timing be altered easily on this model?
Thanks
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Don,
Don Cameron wrote:
Victor,
A common technique we use in computing is to separate the presentation of
information from the storage or manipulation of information itself. For
example, capturing the current flow and storing it is left up to one area of
electronics & software, and the display of this information is left up to a
very separate portion of electronics & software.
This is exactly how EVision is planned. Info processor is physically
away from the display module in my case.
If you keep this in mind with your design, you will be "agile" and be able
to take quickly take advantage of new user interfaces when they become
available (or be able to react quickly if a supplier goes bankrupt).
The same technique is used for storage devices. I am not a huge fan of SD
medium, but as you point out - what alternatives are there (RS232, USB,
wireless, bluetooth)? All have their pros and cons. If you design your
circuits and software to isolate the storage medium, it will make it easier
to change technology in the future.
Thanks for warning, exactly this concern lead to the decision to make
storage independent.
In enterprise architecture it is very common to separate these "areas of
concern". A typical pattern is:
data - voltage, current, temp, etc.
presentation of data - lcd "gauges", readouts, flashing lights
control of the presentation - user pressing buttons, warnings
data storage - saving the data to a medium
modification of data - calculations of energy use, "fuel gauge"
external interfaces - sensors, external computers, GPS, etc.
I am sure you already know of these concepts in one way or another - this is
just another way of looking at it.
> Don
Thanks for valuable input from the computing pro,
Victor
--- End Message ---
