EV Digest 4643
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Deka Intimidator
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: adapter plate business...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: EV digest 4642
by Seth Allen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Emeter voltage prescaler
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Deka Intimidator
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Emeter voltage prescaler
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Smart E drive, Batts Re: Thundersky Batteries
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Emeter voltage prescaler
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Advanced DC Motors K91-4001 6.7" Model
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) Buses talk...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Try D+D motors!! Re: Advanced DC Motors K91-4001 6.7" Model
by jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: adapter plate business...
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: Advanced DC Motors K91-4001 6.7" Model
by Jim Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: Deka Intimidator
by Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: S10's SOC meter
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Thundersky Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Kelvin connection
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) 24 volt contactor
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by Mike Ellis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) 24 volt contactor, continued
by Dave Cover <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: S10's SOC meter
by "Paul G." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) RE: Kelvin connection
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) I have lost my BC 20 LB 20 installation diagram
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Kelvin connection
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Im considering the Deka Intimidator battery for my S10 144vlt
conversion. They are $99.99 plus shipping online at remybattery.com
Any comments on this battery and this price?
I was hoping to keep the costs down a bit further than this on my
battery pack but its been suggested to me by a few members that these
batters are great and will last me a 2+ years easy if treated correctly.
The battery talk on here confuses me and need more reinforcement :)
CWarman
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It sounds like the old Greek paradox called "the prisoner's dilemma."
Our actions have consequences. They may help or hurt you, and may help
or hurt others. As rational beings, we should decide what to do based on
the relative merits of the various outcomes.
If an action helps you and helps others, it is a "win" for both parties.
This is how most business transactions work. It's a good deal for both
parties because they come away better off than they were. So if I were
in the business of selling adapter plates, I would also sell the
dimensions because I get money for the data, yet can still use it again
myself or sell it again to others. My only loss is the risk that the
buyer might provide that data to others at a lower price, or start
building adapter plates in competition with mine and so drive down the
price. So I'd set my price based on this risk.
If an action has no effect on you, and helps others, it's still worth
doing just on the basis that it's socially good to help others. Or as
the bible puts it, do onto others as you would have them do onto you.
I'd like it someone gave me the data; so I'll give it to others as long
as it doesn't hurt me. If I'm *not* in the business of selling adapter
plates but happen to have the dimensions because I measured them myself,
then I would share this data for free. It does me no harm, and helps
someone else. The only risk to me is if it hurts a business that I
appreciate and would rather that they survive.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
CANbus, RS-232, etc
Looks like there is a fight going on over CANbus. Rarely do I agree
with Victor, but CANbus is far superior to RS232 in an automotive or EV
environment, in my experience. Do I know exactly why? No.
But when we had a hard time at (my old) work with RS-232 at 19200bps,
125kbps with CAN was no problem (there were 7 motor controllers, all
60+kW peak power running). It tolerated lack of termination pretty
well, too. I have run it for 30+ foot lengths at 250kbps in an
environment with an engine and 4 controllers of 70kW power or more. So
I can't tell you why exactly, but I can tell you that in my experience
it has been very reliable, much more so than RS-232.
FWIW, there is a battery charger device profile written for CANOpen.
www.can-cia.org has details. I haven't used CANOpen much, I mostly
focused on J-1939 flavored CAN, but you might want to take a look.
More opinion for the fire...
seth
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Ha. Those police Crown Vics are slower than even my slow POS
daily driver. They do 0-60 in about 8 seconds flat...
Interesting how those cops thought hybrids are slow, given
that a Prius isn't far off in terms of acceleration.
Those photos of Zombie spanking the Viper can be found here:
http://www.austinev.org/evalbum/woodburn2001/woodburn8.html
They'd make a nice addition to your site. If there is a
video, someone on this list must have it.
I'm glad to see that the particular radio host was open
minded about EVs and actually bothered to check your site.
Certainly kills a few stereotypes that reside in people's
minds at the moment, and with rising gas prices, it's only a
matter of time before large numbers of people begin to catch
on. We're already seeing many new list members as a result
of these gas prices.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
How about this:
http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/Prescaler.GIF
It looks familiar, like what I remember Lee posting in his ASCII art.
The internal resistance of the meter must form the other half of the
voltage divider.
I've used the E-Meter and Link-10 which are the same... no clue as to
what the XMB is?
Rod Hower wrote:
I have the new XMB Xantrex Battery Monitor.
I looked all over for Lee Harts prescaler circuit
(checked archives etc).
I wonder if this would even work with the newer meter?
Has anybody tried there own prescaler with the XMB?
Thanks,
Rod
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I have a Xantrex 9-35Vdc Emeter that I want to use
on
a 12*13= 156Vdc nominal, 215Vdc max during charge
battery pack on a Sparrow.
The manual calls out a part # 854-2018-01 voltage
prescaler but does not mention input voltage.
I'm guessing the prescaler is just a resistor in
line
with the battery + line.
Any ideas on what I should use for a 156Vdc nominal
pack?
Thanks,
Rod
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Cwarman wrote:
> Im considering the Deka Intimidator battery for my S10 144vlt
> conversion. They are $99.99 plus shipping online at remybattery.com
>
> Any comments on this battery and this price?
They used to be like $88 or $89 each before the price of lead
apparently went up.. Or maybe it was the diesel fuel prices having an
effect on shipping costs..
I say go for it. I'm interested in seeing conversions done using that
battery(I only know of one). I even considered it before it went up
in price.
Or you can get the Exide Orbital for $2 less each..
http://remybattery.com/350/shopexd.asp?id=5442&catid=341&cat=Automotive&subcat=470&L2=&L3=
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here's Xantrex's response,
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
The prescaler is not just a resistor in series. This
would not change the voltage at all. The prescaler for
the XBM is actually still a future product. The XBM
will not work with a 156V DC system.
You can use a Link 10 with a 500V prescaler.
84-2016-01 (Link 10 Standard) and 84-6000-05 (500v -
prescaler)
http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/97/p/1/pt/5/product.asp
>>>>>>>>>>>>>.
--- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about this:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/Prescaler.GIF
> It looks familiar, like what I remember Lee posting
> in his ASCII art.
> The internal resistance of the meter must form the
> other half of the
> voltage divider.
>
> I've used the E-Meter and Link-10 which are the
> same... no clue as to
> what the XMB is?
>
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
> > I have the new XMB Xantrex Battery Monitor.
> > I looked all over for Lee Harts prescaler circuit
> > (checked archives etc).
> > I wonder if this would even work with the newer
> meter?
> > Has anybody tried there own prescaler with the
> XMB?
> > Thanks,
> > Rod
> >
> > --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I have a Xantrex 9-35Vdc Emeter that I want to use
> >>on
> >>a 12*13= 156Vdc nominal, 215Vdc max during charge
> >>battery pack on a Sparrow.
> >>The manual calls out a part # 854-2018-01 voltage
> >>prescaler but does not mention input voltage.
> >>I'm guessing the prescaler is just a resistor in
> >>line
> >>with the battery + line.
> >>Any ideas on what I should use for a 156Vdc
> nominal
> >>pack?
> >>Thanks,
> >>Rod
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello all,
As I work on the batteries for my EV, the most cost/performance/size
effectiveness I can figure is the Thundersky 90 AH batteries (34 to get 120
volts as a target) (for a 1000 lb glider). This should run just over $5000. I
am thinking of the Zivan 3 charger. Has anyone had good/bad experience with
this combination?
As others have said, these batts are not good from a lower
voltage system and the 90 amphr is the worse of the lot. I hear the 100amphr
ones are much better but still not up to the amps you need. Plus these batts
are not good for a newbie as they are still rather finiky, needing close
monitoring, care or they die an expensive death.
If I were you I'd go with Hawkers of the biggest size you can or
Deka Dominators may be best if they will fit. You could buddy pair them for
48vdc if you go the multiple E tek route or in series to a higher voltage if
going the series motor route but if you want range, 2-4 e- teks will do you
much better than a series will, especially in stop and go city driving and have
better top end power. The Deka's, Hawkers seem to do without regs reasonably
well if you have a good battery charger though life will improve with regs. And
if you go 48vdc, you only need 4 regs. Don't worry about the batt charger until
you have decided on the batts, ect.
If you go with the E teks and regen controllers, you will get 20%
better range just from that.
With the lower currents you will pull, YT's will probably get a
better output than the 33 of so amphrs they usually get, so them or Orbitals
are another choice.
So my advice is chose one of the above battery packs with as many
as you can stuff and run it until they are ready to be replaced and by then you
will know enough, and they will be better, the prices will drop a lot to use
Li-ions as they still need another yr or 2 to mature enough for newbies..
Another possibility later is using both 1 string of AGM's and a
string of Li-ions with the AGM's supplying the amps and the li-ions supplying
the amphrs for long range. 4 Yt's and 16 200amphr li-ions cells would be an
interesting combo for you.
Call if you want and I'll explain more,
Jerry Dycus
Calculations show (270 Amp battery max * 120 volts) should put peak HP around
36, resulting in a stellar 20 second 0-60 mph. (which is acceptable to me at
least). It also should give me 8KW usable at <140 lbs (10+KW total). At a
recommended 200 kw/mile baseline value, this should give me 40+ mile range in
general conditions. (aka general 45-50 mph driving)
I am going to match up the battery pack to a ADC L91 motor and curtis 120 volt
controller into the stock manual tranmission.
Are my calculations reasonable? Am I missing something? Any other batteries
that I have overlooked?
(for 80-90 AH at 120 Volts)
Kokam battery pack quote > $18k
Peacebay > $7k
Valence > $10k
Spendid TBD
Battery space prohibits anything else besides small (55 AH) SLA or "exotic"
small battery types.
I am trying to be conservative in calculations to make sure I am not
disappointed at the end.
Thanks,
Peter
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Jim,
That circuit looks familiar, it's inside the Sparrow
EVCL box (that Otmar originally designed when his
company was called EVCL, the name stayed with the
box!)
The EVCL is a small box that looks for the seatbelt,
brake pressure sensors and a couple of other things
to turn on idiot lights on the dash and also to enable
the motor control.
Looks like I'm out of luck with the XMB according to
Xantrex.
Rod
--- Jim Coate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> How about this:
> http://www.cafeelectric.com/temp/Prescaler.GIF
> It looks familiar, like what I remember Lee posting
> in his ASCII art.
> The internal resistance of the meter must form the
> other half of the
> voltage divider.
>
> I've used the E-Meter and Link-10 which are the
> same... no clue as to
> what the XMB is?
>
>
> Rod Hower wrote:
> > I have the new XMB Xantrex Battery Monitor.
> > I looked all over for Lee Harts prescaler circuit
> > (checked archives etc).
> > I wonder if this would even work with the newer
> meter?
> > Has anybody tried there own prescaler with the
> XMB?
> > Thanks,
> > Rod
> >
> > --- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>I have a Xantrex 9-35Vdc Emeter that I want to use
> >>on
> >>a 12*13= 156Vdc nominal, 215Vdc max during charge
> >>battery pack on a Sparrow.
> >>The manual calls out a part # 854-2018-01 voltage
> >>prescaler but does not mention input voltage.
> >>I'm guessing the prescaler is just a resistor in
> >>line
> >>with the battery + line.
> >>Any ideas on what I should use for a 156Vdc
> nominal
> >>pack?
> >>Thanks,
> >>Rod
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Jim Coate
> 1970's Elec-Trak's
> 1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
> 1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
> http://www.eeevee.com
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
Peter Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear list members.
Advanced DC K91-4003 motor, 48-96VDC, single shaft, 6.7" diam., 8 HP
Can anyone tell me the default brush configuration for this motor as
supplied by ADC?
Usually all motors are supplyied with neutral unless CW or CCW are
on the label. Any shop selling these new will know how they are timed.
How easy to change depends on how good you are. Most motors, the
timing can be changed fairly easily though you may have to drill, tap some new
holes.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Neutral?
Advanced?
Retarded?
Direction of rotation?
Can brush timing be altered easily on this model?
Thanks
Peter
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Seth,
Seth Allen wrote:
CANbus, RS-232, etc
Looks like there is a fight going on over CANbus.
No, no fights. I just mentioned my bus choice and reasons for it.
Feel free to use what you like, no one will fight you.
Rarely do I agree with Victor,...
I take it as a compliment :-)
but CANbus is far superior to RS232 in an automotive or EV
environment, in my experience. Do I know exactly why? No.
Because outstanding error handling ability of the CAN
implementation, transparently done for you.
But we were comparing RS485 physical implementation with CAN,
not RS232. RS232 is not used in cars just like PCs aren't
(hobbyists don't count). RS232 is OK for the office environment.
Lee mentioned EVil bus implementation. This is basically
a good bi-directional opto-isolator between the common bus (wires)
and bus nodes themselves, e.g. physical interface, not a bus
implementation as you think of if, say, mention RS485.
Unlike CAN nodes, in case of EVil bus you still have to come up with the
node electronics yourself (local circuits massaging your data), so
it is not really directly comparable. Nothing to fight over :-)
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Peter and All,
You may want to get a D+D motor of this type instead as they
are the original owner of ADC before they sold out and now just do 6.7" motors.
They will set it up what ever way, rpm, amp you want at nice prices.
Bob Rice is a dealers as are others and you can get them from
EV parts, ect.
I've had good help from them and will use them in my new EV.
2 A89 types, ES-22's have more power, start up torque than a
8" at a much lower price for my direct drive system and better cooling.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Peter Perkins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Dear list members.
Advanced DC K91-4003 motor, 48-96VDC, single shaft, 6.7" diam., 8 HP
Can anyone tell me the default brush configuration for this motor as
supplied by ADC?
Neutral?
Advanced?
Retarded?
Direction of rotation?
Can brush timing be altered easily on this model?
Thanks
Peter
---------------------------------
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
You needn't have bothered, Lee. Victor resorted to
"the experts use it, so there" logic.
According to Lee Hart,
> Danny Miller wrote:
> > The isolated sender doesn't need to send a lot of information.
> > I would tend to think just a low level SPI-type interface can
> > work just as well.
>
> SPI isn't isolated, has low noise immunity, and is really just a very
> short-distance interface for connecting two ICs on the same circuit
> board -- like the TTL standard. The principles it uses could be
> expanded; but there are better choices when longer distances and noise
> immunity are needed.
>
> > the data freq can be low, perhaps oversampled
>
> SPI data frequency is arbitrary, since is a clocked serial bus (both
> clock and data are sent). However, it transfers data on EDGES, not
> levels, which makes its noise immunity intrinsically poor.
>
> > I'm not familiar with RS-485, but assuming it's functionally
> > similar to RS-232 there's no specified support for multiple
> > transmitters sharing a bus...
>
> RS-232 and RS-485 are both hardware standards -- they don't say anything
> about the data actually being exchanged. But they are completely
> different. Here is a (very brief) summary of the two:
>
> RS-232
> 1. one sender, one receiver
> 2. separate wires for data and control (a typical RS-232 has
> a 3- to 9-wire cable)
> 3. transmitter sends +5v to +15v as "0", and -5v to -15v as "1"
> and can source/sink about 5 ma max
> 4. receiver counts +3v to +25v as "0", and -3v to -25v as "1"
> and has an input impedance of 3k minimum
> 5. thus power consumption is 1-4 ma per wire
> 6. unterminated (limits cable length due to noise and ringing)
> 7. single-ended (measures voltages relative to common or ground)
> and thus has poor noise immunity
> 8. good for 10-15' at 50k bits/sec with low noise immunity
>
> RS-485
> 1. many senders, many receivers
> (only one sends at a time, others listen)
> 2. only 2 wires, +data and -data (and an implied ground/shield)
> 3. transmitter has 2 outputs (one for each wire); it simultaneously
> drives +data high and -data low as "1", and +data low as "0".
> High and low levels are <0.5v and >2.5v (like TTL logic)
> 4. receivers measure the voltage difference between wires;
> >0.2v for "1" and <0.2v for "0" (typical difference is 2v)
> 5. terminated with a 150 ohm resistor between wires at each end
> of the bus (allows long cables and high bit rates)
> 6. high power (30-100 ma) due to TTL levels and 75-ohm termination
> 7. differential (measures voltage difference between the 2 wires)
> and thus has better noise immunity
> 8. good for 100' at 1 megabit/sec with moderate noise immunity
>
> (PS: CANbus is very similar to RS-485. The CAN standard mainly defines
> the software and data bit formats to be used on RS-485 hardware).
>
> Both of these have shortcomings in an EV. They are not isolated, and
> noise immunity is not good enough (RS-232 because it is high impedance
> and single-ended; RS-485 because the voltage levels are so low).
>
> > The logical answer to me would be a design-specific bus between the
> > isolated sender and the head unit.
>
> I agree. That is what led me to EVILbus (Electric Vehicle
> Instrumentation bus. Roughly speaking, it is an isolated version of
> RS-485 designed for lower power and higher noise immunity. Compared to
> RS-485, it adds optocouplers for isolation, doubles the termination
> impedance, and raises the voltage level. Here's a summary:
>
> EVILbus
> 1. many senders, many receivers
> (only one sender at a time, others listen)
> 2. only 2 wires, +data and -data (and an implied ground/shield)
> 3. transmitter has 2 outputs (one for each wire); it shorts
> +data and -data together (<1v) as "1", and opens them
> as "0" (terminating resistor pull it to >9v)
> 4. receivers measure the voltage difference between wires;
> <1.5v for "1" and >7.5v for "0" (typical difference is 8v)
> 5. terminated with two 150 ohm resistors anywhere on the bus
> (-data to ground, +data to +12v)
> 6. lower power (15 ma) due to termination resistors in series
> 7. differential (measures voltage difference between the 2 wires)
> 8. good for 100' cables at 10k bit/sec with high noise immunity
> (speed mainly limited by optocouplers)
>
> EVILbus is just a "basement project", but it has been used in a number
> of EVs. It is free to copy and use. It is a work in progress, so ideas
> and improvement are welcome. The circuit for EVILbus and Ralph Merwin's
> software protocol are at http://www.aracnet.com/~rmerwin/bms
> --
> Ring the bells that you can ring
> Forget your perfect offering
> There is a crack in everything
> That's how the light gets in
> -- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
> --
> Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Best Regards,
Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I agree that Guy B should offer to pay.
I also think that if Guy A was going to do it anyway, he can
be nice and give it away for free, but if he's such a nice
guy, he might as well give it away to the world, not just
Guy B.
In my own opinion, secrecy and intellectual property can be
used for the common good (I own it and I choose to give it
away) or for selfishness (I bought it and won't give it away
even if it costs me nothing to do so). Information shares
differently from material goods.
According to Ralph Merwin,
>
> I would expect Guy B to offer to pay part of the cost.
>
> If the vehicle is popular for conversions, maybe Guy A could pick
> some number of vehicles to spread the cost over, and sell copies
> of the plans to that many people, then maybe put them up for free
> somewhere, or donate them to one of the EV suppliers.
>
> Ralph
>
>
> Victor Tikhonov writes:
> >
> > It's not about me, so I can't "give someone a break".
> >
> > It's about two guys (I don't know friends or not, I
> > don't know them, and they are not on the list)
> > wanting to do simialr cars and needing the dimensions.
> >
> > So one is quietly waiting for another to get it (and 100%
> > pay for it) to have a free ride. I suspect the first one
> > does not realize that and will be paying "for himself"
> > since he needs it anyway (only to be approached later...)
> >
> > According to most of responses, the first one must pay it
> > all and "give second one a break" since EVs are already
> > expensive enough".
> >
> > But somehow this still doesn't seem fair.
> >
> > I'm no judge, and can't suggest anything, just heard
> > the story I wanted to pass on.
> >
> > Dennis Merritt wrote:
> > > Neon John speaks the truth... In my opinion... Give the guy a break.. Evs
> > > are expensive enuff without someone giving others breaks..
> > >
> > > REVgards,
> > >
> > > Dennis Merritt
> > > Sacramento
> >
> >
> > --
> > Victor
> > '91 ACRX - something different
> >
--
Best Regards,
Tony
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Look down the motor and line up the brushes and the two pole shoe bolts along
the housing. If the brushes are dead in line with those bolt heads (which is
the center of the pole) then the motor is not timed but is neutral set. If
they lie to one side or the other then the motor is timed. To what degree it
is advanced you would need to measure.
Hope this helps
Jim Husted
jerry dycus <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Hi Peter and All,
Peter Perkins
wrote:
Dear list members.
Advanced DC K91-4003 motor, 48-96VDC, single shaft, 6.7" diam., 8 HP
Can anyone tell me the default brush configuration for this motor as
supplied by ADC?
Usually all motors are supplyied with neutral unless CW or CCW are on the
label. Any shop selling these new will know how they are timed.
How easy to change depends on how good you are. Most motors, the timing can be
changed fairly easily though you may have to drill, tap some new holes.
HTH's,
Jerry Dycus
Neutral?
Advanced?
Retarded?
Direction of rotation?
Can brush timing be altered easily on this model?
Thanks
Peter
---------------------------------
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--- End Message ---
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Although those are 12-volt batteries and 12 of them strung together
would give you the 144 volts, I hope you are planning on using 2 or 3
strings (24 or 36 batteries total). Doing so will raise the cost but if
not, your range will be pretty minimal. You should also consider some
sort of regulators or balancing system to keep these nice batteries happy.
Cwarman wrote:
Im considering the Deka Intimidator battery for my S10 144vlt
conversion. They are $99.99 plus shipping online at remybattery.com
Any comments on this battery and this price?
I was hoping to keep the costs down a bit further than this on my
battery pack but its been suggested to me by a few members that these
batters are great and will last me a 2+ years easy if treated correctly.
The battery talk on here confuses me and need more reinforcement :)
CWarman
--
Jim Coate
1970's Elec-Trak's
1998 Chevy S-10 NiMH BEV
1997 Chevy S-10 NGV Bi-Fuel
http://www.eeevee.com
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Bruce Bailey wrote:
> My '95 Jeep Cherokee... display a "miles left to go" indicator.
> As I consume fuel at a lower or higher than nominal rate, the
> meter indicates less or more miles to go before empty. It's
> obviously based on the remaining fuel in the tank and the per
> shot setting of the injectors.
>
> Anybody see a glaring reason why something like that could not be
> implemented?
Watthours correspond directly to gallons of gasoline. If you assume
battery voltage is constant, then amphours correspond directly to
watthours. Thus any of the amphour counting meters are basically the
same thing as a gas gauge.
However, a battery is not like a gasoline tank. The capacity of a
gasoline tank is essentially constant, but a battery's capacity changes
drastically with time and temperature. While it is easy to measure the
energy flow in/out of a battery, it is very hard to know how much energy
is actually in it.
It's as if your car had a rubber balloon as its gas tank. How much is in
it? It's hard to say! A simple float wouldn't work. It changes size and
shape easily. It can stretch to hold much more when it is warm and
flexible; but get stiff and shrink when cold. It can develop kinks and
folds so there is gas trapped inside that you can't get it out.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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John Lussmyer wrote:
>> Our experience with the 90AH cells is more like a 40A max (if you
>> don't want to overheat and/or undervoltage them). As far as I can
>> tell, the 270A max is possible only via dead short across the cell.
>> Their voltage sag under load is HUGE. You MUST have a BMS for any
>> of the ThunderSky LiIon cells.
I bought some of the same cells John was talking about, and agree with
his comments. We made a group purchase of Thundersky 90ah cells thru
Victor Tikhonov. I think Thundersky sent us old or substandard
batteries.
Peter wrote:
> Any suggestions on "lightweight" packs (7-8 kw usable) near the same
> size?
You could get Hawkers that would fit. They are a high-quality lead-acid
AGM battery, very similar performance-wise to the Optimas, but come in a
much wider range of sizes.
You have a 48v system, right? Another possibility might be to use half
Optimas, and half Thunderskys. The Optimas provide the high peak power,
and the Thunderskys provide the long range. It would require two
separate chargers and a control system that allowed you to transfer
charge between the packs as needed.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire. 8 feet
or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them under the
hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach everything
to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through and even
melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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I happened across a 24 volt contactor and thought I'd give it a try. The reason
I was interested in it was because it was reported to be rated for 1800 amps. I
only have two other Albright contactors, and I figured, if I could get it to
work, I wouldn't have to worry about not being able to shut down.
It has 3 sets of contacts pulled in by one coil. The three sets of contacts
make/break connection between 2 very heavy copper plates. Each plate is about
3"x3"x.25". It has a sticker indicating it was made by Prestolite Electric in
Decatur, Alabama. The part number is JHA-4121B. Their site only talks about
starters and alternators, I can't find anything about their contactor business.
Does anyone know a way to use this with a 12 volt system? Would a Z1k be able
to tame this beast? Or is it just a nice paper weight?
Thanks
Dave Cover
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Lawrence, your comment reminded me of something I did see Rush say on a show
which must have been almost 15 years ago. Forgive me if I get things wrong,
this is from memory.
Someone (Clinton or Gore?) was pushing a program to develop cars that got
50 mpg, and Rush was blasting the idea. He said something like, "This is
ridiculous, there's already a car that gets 50 mpg. It's called the Geo
Metro and nobody wants one!"
Fast forward to today when you have a waiting list to get a Prius.
I wonder if anyone has a transcript of that?
-Mike Ellis
On 8/30/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Was the show Rush Limburger? LR...........
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "John Westlund" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:22 AM
> Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
>
>
> > Anyone happen to have a clip of this call-in? I'd like to
> > hear the reaction of the radio host to this. :-)
> >
>
>
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Tony Godshall wrote:
You needn't have bothered, Lee. Victor resorted to
"the experts use it, so there" logic.
Not quite, I don't use it blindly just because experts said so.
When experts explain why it is preferred and I understand and
agree, then it is a good technical reason to follow.
Not just aurhority.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Well, Google is better than Yahoo for searches. I just found a page about the
contactor, here's the link.
http://www.prestolitepower.com/products/sku.cfm?SKU_Id=12564
Is this worth using? I got it for a real good price. I haven't hooked it up to
12 volts to see if it will pull in, but I will as soon as I find a wiring
diagram. There are at least 4 connections coming out of the coil body. There is
a small silver box that is supposed to be an economizer circuit but I don't
know if it's working.
Thanks,
Dave Cover
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On Aug 30, 2005, at 12:06 PM, Victor Tikhonov wrote:
Apparently people have no big trouble to relate position of the
pointer to their usual destinations... or learn fast.
I've been looking for a simple ah counter. What you are working on
seems to be the first one that would be available to normal people, and
able to run *their* gauge (actually, you have another example listed on
your site now but its *expensive*.)
I'm looking forward to what you have in mind. I'd like to swap my EV
Buggy's modified 1966 speedometer for a later one with the fuel gauge
built in. (I suspect I will do this only by amp hour counting)
The idea is not that this is 'better'. The idea is that this is
'normal' - people seeing my EV can relate to it and see that EVs can be
like any other car. Well, in my case normal except for that Prestolite
hanging out of the back instead of an aircooled VW engine :-)
Try to avoid "feature creep" - where the device does what everyone
wants to the point where many customers only want it because of a small
subset of features. It tends to create an expensive device, a purchase
deterrent to those who only are after a small number of things it does.
Paul "neon" G.
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Phenolic.
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: August 30, 2005 6:03 PM
To: Electric Vehicle Discussion List
Subject: Kelvin connection
I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire. 8 feet
or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them under the
hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach everything
to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through and even
melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Lee Hart wrote:
>> This is just about what you get if you have nothing but an
>> expanded scale voltmeter in your EV. Include a very large
>> capacitor across the meter so it doesn't bounce around,
>> and it will work like a normal ICE's fuel gauge.
Doug Weathers wrote:
> If a voltmeter is as good as this, then it seems like that would
> be sufficient for most people.
It is. It is by far the most common type of EV "fuel" gauge you'll see;
widely used on golf carts, fork lifts, etc.
> But I've never heard anyone say that they thought their voltmeter
> made an accurate EV fuel gauge.
Agreed. It isn't very accurate. But that's in part because the capacity
of the battery itself varies so much. I don't think many people think
amphour-counting gauges are "accurate" either -- though they are more
accurate than voltage-based gauges.
> Perhaps the vastly greater energy capacity of the gas car makes a
> sloppy fuel gauge workable, where the same sloppiness in an EV is
> unacceptable?
Agreed! If everyone had just a 1-gallon gas tank in their car, they
would be dissatisfied with the regular float-based gas gauge too.
> Are there any actual numbers that might help to get a handle on this?
If you tend to drive at about the same speeds and distances each day
(like a daily commute to/from work), then a plain old voltmeter with a
very slow response time will work pretty good. Let's say you have a 120v
pack of floodeds: Then the scale is marked "full" at 127v and "empty" at
105v.
By itself, this would only work if you discharged at a constant rate.
But as you accellerate, cruise, coast, and stop for red lights, the
meter would bounce all over the scale. So use a large enough capacitor
across the meter to have a response time constant of about 5 minutes.
This filters out the voltage variations from stop-and-go driving so you
basically see just the average voltage under load.
>> Calibration [of the crossed-meter display] is a challenge.
> Shouldn't be too terrible - a morning or three of work perhaps.
> Ideally, someone will make a web site that lets you plug in the
> measurement numbers and then it will generate the meter graphic for
> you. Otherwise, you plot it by hand. An evening or two of work
> perhaps.
Yes, that's true. But that's a big challenge for people who just want to
drive. And it will change as the battery ages, or as temperature varies.
> Age, I grant you. You'd have to redo the calibration every year
> or so if you wanted to keep it up to date. But temperature?
Yes, temperature, because battery capacity is strongly affected by
temperature. For lead-acid, the colder it gets, the lower the usable
amphour capacity. Also, its internal resistance rises, so there is more
voltage sag. If you try to drive at the same speed, the controller draws
more current to compensate for the reduced voltage, further decreasing
your range.
> is it a better "guess" gauge than an expanded-scale voltmeter?
Yes. More information allows better predictions. The expanded scale
voltmeter is basically correct only at one load current. The expanded
scale voltmeter with a capacitor filter is basically correct only at one
*average* load current (it would be wrong if your 10-mile commute took
10 minutes on monday, and 30 minutes on tuesday). The crossed-meter
display can be basically correct over a range of load currents -- you
use the scale that corresponds to your actual load current.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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I fired up my BC 20 with the larger resistor and nothing. I reduced and
still nothing. I think I lost a wire somewhere. Anyone have a diagram or
url with the proper sequence of wiring. I have the boost transformer with 6
positions. LR.........
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire.
> 8 feet or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want
> them under the hood along with my other regs. What is a good material
> to attach everything to. I used plastic last time and the external
> loads melted through and even melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER.
If they get hot enough to melt plastic, then they are too hot! You need
to do something about the heat. Install bigger heatsinks, or fans, or do
something to decrease the time or current that the regulators have to
handle.
--
Ring the bells that you can ring
Forget your perfect offering
There is a crack in everything
That's how the light gets in
-- Leonard Cohen, from "Anthem"
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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