EV Digest 4642
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) Re: adapter plate business...
by Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: So what does it take?
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: adapter plate business...
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by Doug Weathers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) Re: Thundersky Batteries
by [EMAIL PROTECTED]
6) Re: Cloud Electric now hiring
by "Mark McCurdy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Zilla DAQ 4 mode questions or how to graph a race?
by Mark Farver <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: RS232 isolation question
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) S10's SOC meter
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Tony Godshall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) RE: S10's SOC meter
by Bruce Bailey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) Re: adapter plate business...
by "Philip Marino" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) Re: 75mpg Hybrid you can build.
by Danny Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Fw: 2000 mile range car?
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: So what does it take?
by =?ISO-8859-1?Q?Jukka_J=E4rvinen?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) Re: Cloud Electric now hiring
by Rex Allison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: Emeter voltage prescaler
by Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: adapter plate business...
by Ryan Stotts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
Electro Automotive wrote:
At 05:34 PM 8/29/05 -0700, you wrote:
[snip]
Agree whole-heartedly with what you said here. It's your business.
By the way, do manufacturers give out their schematics for controllers
or chargers?
Depends. Often, for industrial type stuff the answer is "yes".
Electronic test equipment: nearly always. Industrial dc motor
controllers (AC SCR type): often. I think schematics for Curtis
controllers are easily found. In the (really) old days, even consumer
electronics came with a schematic. The "programmers reference manual"
for the Commodore 64 came with a fold-out schematic in the back.
Even today, you can purchase the service manual for a lot of electronic
items, though not all.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Not true. Crash standards are based on instrumented standard dummies.
The specifications are in terms of max g-force to the head, torso and
extremities plus tangential forces to the limbs and pelvis(breaking
forces). These standards are available for downloading, though I
don't have the URL on the tip of my fingertips.
A major change in the last few years was the addition of a female
dummy. Previously only male dummies were used. The female dummy
changes the situation primarily in damage to the pelvic area. I think
that there is a baby dummy in the works but I don't keep up all that
well anymore.
Now the 2.5 mph impact barrier test is somewhat subjective, though the
government has tried to objectify it as much as possible. The
subjective part is in determining if a part is damaged beyond repair
and how much it might cost to effect the repair.
I should also note in light of this conspiracy theory that the
government does not do certification crash testing. The OEMs (or a
contractor) do the testing and provide the government with the data.
The government does crash test a variety of cars but that's more of a
spot-check on the self-certification process.
Finally I should note that there is a relaxed standard for low volume
manufacturers. Under a thousand vehicles a year, I think but don't
hold me to that. Small manufacturers such as Panoz have little
trouble with the standards so I'd expect Commutercars to have the same
experience.
John
On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 10:52:46 -0700, Victor Tikhonov
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>I'm afraid there is no measurable objective requirements.
>
>You'd need to crash test with dummies, and the team of expert inspectors
>will inspect the degree of damage, gepth of crump zones, etc.
>
>If they see (judgement call) that the damage is too extensive,
>you don't pass.
>
>So this is the key: if they don't want EV to succeed, they may keep
>telling Rick that the Tango didn't pass no matter what, even if actual
>damage of a car and dummy is less than that in flimsy GEO.
>
>Just because Commutercars is not GM.
>
>Sam Harper wrote:
>> So, hypothetically, if I came out with a vehicle design and prototype
>> today, what would I have to do to get it approved by the DOT? Under
>> what quantity do I not have to get it approved by the DOT? What are the
>> requirements? Seatbelts? Airbags? Center labeling?
>> -Sam
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Neon John wrote:
Sherry, I think it was, asked if other companies supply schematics. I
can't comment on those I've never had dealings with but I know that
all the leaders in their fields provide both schematic and service and
diagnostic information. Tektronix, Agilent, Fluke/Siemens, etc. It
was the policy in every major corporation that I worked for and TVA
that schematics and service information had to be supplied by any
vendor we dealt with. Heck, HP/Agilent and Tek and Fluke/Siemens even
publish white papers on the underlying design and engineering
principles.
Adapter plate's coordinates is not "your" information, you didn't put
any effort designing it. You just obtained what someone else did.
Yes, obtaining cost you money, but you don't "own" info - anyone can do
the same.
Schematics is intellectual property of inventors - if they want to
share it, fine, but they don't have to. No user can demand it.
Else next thing the user will demand as well is the source code...
Rich and Otmar aew very pro-EV and help out everyone immensely.
I doubt they would ever publish schematics and the source code
to allow community to benefit "because EVs are already too expensive"
As John pointed out, even with this info available 99% of people
still won't be able to re-create the product. But resourceful 1% can.
Point is distinction between result of your creativity
(should not nesessarily be free) and someone else's
creativity (tranny dimentions) you just happen to have but spent
no effort to come up with). Charging for it I guess
is up to your ethical standards.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Thanks for the comments, Lee.
On Aug 29, 2005, at 12:25 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
Doug Weathers wrote:
What I want is not an amp-hour counter but a fuel gauge. I want to
be able to glance at the dashboard and get an instant picture of
my state of charge, like in a ICE car.
The fuel gauge in most cars is a joke. They never mark it in gallons
because its accuracy is so bad. You're lucky if it reads within 1/4
tank
of how much you actually have.
This is just about what you get if you have nothing but an expanded
scale voltmeter in your EV. Include a very large capacitor across the
meter so it doesn't bounce around, and it will work like a normal ICE's
fuel gauge.
Seriously? I've never been disappointed or surprised by an ICE fuel
gauge (unless it was broken). If a voltmeter is as good as this, then
it seems like that would be sufficient for most people. But I've never
heard anyone say that they thought their voltmeter made an accurate EV
fuel gauge.
Perhaps the vastly greater energy capacity of the gas car makes a
sloppy fuel gauge workable, where the same sloppiness in an EV is
unacceptable?
Are there any actual numbers that might help to get a handle on this?
I keep coming back to Mark Brueggemann's cross-needle analog fuel
gauge... My problems with this specific design is that the meter
isn't designed for use in a vehicle, and it doesn't work when
you're not moving, and it's hard to calibrate... So, how about
a ruggedized version of the basic hardware?
Mark's gauge *is* clever. The meters should be readable while driving,
unless you are on a very bumpy road. Or, you can get meter movements
that are ruggedized and damped for automotive use.
If the scales are properly drawn, it *will* work while you are driving
(that's the whole point of measuring current and voltage).
Will it work *better* than a simple voltmeter? It seems like it
should, since it uses more information (voltage, current, and the
relationship between them as calculated for your EV).
Calibration is a challenge. It is not simply a matter of adjusting some
pots. The challenge is that each battery has a unique relationship
between its voltage / current / state of charge. To calibrate such a
gauge, you would have to discharge your battery at various currents and
plot the voltage vs. amphours extracted. Then make your
red/yellow/green
scales accordingly. This is a lot of work.
Shouldn't be too terrible - a morning or three of work perhaps.
Since voltage is a good measurement of SOC only after the pack has
rested for several hours, you can measure the voltage in the morning
and figure the SOC. Then find a straight road and accelerate to
various amperages, and note the voltage. You should be able to
videotape your dashboard and just floor the accelerator to get a
continuous stream of data. Do this at various states of charge and
there's your data, customized for your car.
Ideally, someone will make a web site that lets you plug in the
measurement numbers and then it will generate the meter graphic for
you. Otherwise, you plot it by hand. An evening or two of work
perhaps.
Yes? No?
Then, it will change as a function of the battery's age and
temperature.
Age, I grant you. You'd have to redo the calibration every year or so
if you wanted to keep it up to date.
But temperature? Won't the voltage drop with temperature and show
reduced capacity?
It will still wind up more of a "guess" gauge.
Yes, but is it a better "guess" gauge than an expanded-scale voltmeter?
And remember, you should have an ammeter and a voltmeter anyway. Why
not put them in the same gauge and also get a SOC meter almost for
free?
I might just have to give this a try and find out for myself.
I'll have Rudman Regs on my batteries and will use the low-battery
alarm feature to let me know if I'm about to damage a battery, so I
don't see much of a downside.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
>>
>>Are my calculations reasonable? Am I missing something? Any other
>>batteries that I have overlooked?
>Well, no. Our experience with the 90AH cells is more like a 40A max
>(if you don't want to overheat and/or undervoltage them).
>As far as I can tell, the 270A max is possible only via dead short
>across the cell.
>Their voltage sag under load is HUGE.
>You MUST have a BMS for any of the ThunderSky LiIon cells.
Wow ! Thanks for the input. Any suggestions on "lightweight" packs (7-8 kw
usable ) near the same size ?
I can only get 8 Yellow tops (d34) into the car. I am not sure if I can get
more space soon. So I am trying to get decent range, where space is the
limiting factor.
Thanks,
Peter
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
at the bottom...
Business For Sale all or part Description:
My wife and I have decided that it is time to explore the opportunity of
retirement. We are looking to sell the Electric Vehicle Components Section
of this business. Please contact us for more information.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:02 PM
Subject: Cloud Electric now hiring
Business must be booming?
http://www.cloudelectric.com/jobopenings.html
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED--- *
* This post contains a forbidden message format *
* (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML formatting) *
* Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT *
* If your postings display this message your mail program *
* is not set to send PLAIN TEXT ONLY and needs adjusting *
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--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
actually, i think the 1998 chevy s-10 had one like he is talking about (see
the pics).... there is one currently on sale on ebay...
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Chevrolet-S-10-Electric-Vehicle-Electric-Car-EV-Solectria_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ13488QQitemZ4572177657QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
if the link doesnt work, its item 4572177657
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Doug Weathers" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:27 PM
Subject: Re: E-Meter, Ah counters, who needs 'em?
Thanks for the comments, Lee.
On Aug 29, 2005, at 12:25 AM, Lee Hart wrote:
Doug Weathers wrote:
What I want is not an amp-hour counter but a fuel gauge. I want to
be able to glance at the dashboard and get an instant picture of
my state of charge, like in a ICE car.
The fuel gauge in most cars is a joke. They never mark it in gallons
because its accuracy is so bad. You're lucky if it reads within 1/4 tank
of how much you actually have.
This is just about what you get if you have nothing but an expanded
scale voltmeter in your EV. Include a very large capacitor across the
meter so it doesn't bounce around, and it will work like a normal ICE's
fuel gauge.
Seriously? I've never been disappointed or surprised by an ICE fuel gauge
(unless it was broken). If a voltmeter is as good as this, then it seems
like that would be sufficient for most people. But I've never heard
anyone say that they thought their voltmeter made an accurate EV fuel
gauge.
Perhaps the vastly greater energy capacity of the gas car makes a sloppy
fuel gauge workable, where the same sloppiness in an EV is unacceptable?
Are there any actual numbers that might help to get a handle on this?
I keep coming back to Mark Brueggemann's cross-needle analog fuel
gauge... My problems with this specific design is that the meter
isn't designed for use in a vehicle, and it doesn't work when
you're not moving, and it's hard to calibrate... So, how about
a ruggedized version of the basic hardware?
Mark's gauge *is* clever. The meters should be readable while driving,
unless you are on a very bumpy road. Or, you can get meter movements
that are ruggedized and damped for automotive use.
If the scales are properly drawn, it *will* work while you are driving
(that's the whole point of measuring current and voltage).
Will it work *better* than a simple voltmeter? It seems like it should,
since it uses more information (voltage, current, and the relationship
between them as calculated for your EV).
Calibration is a challenge. It is not simply a matter of adjusting some
pots. The challenge is that each battery has a unique relationship
between its voltage / current / state of charge. To calibrate such a
gauge, you would have to discharge your battery at various currents and
plot the voltage vs. amphours extracted. Then make your red/yellow/green
scales accordingly. This is a lot of work.
Shouldn't be too terrible - a morning or three of work perhaps.
Since voltage is a good measurement of SOC only after the pack has rested
for several hours, you can measure the voltage in the morning and figure
the SOC. Then find a straight road and accelerate to various amperages,
and note the voltage. You should be able to videotape your dashboard and
just floor the accelerator to get a continuous stream of data. Do this at
various states of charge and there's your data, customized for your car.
Ideally, someone will make a web site that lets you plug in the
measurement numbers and then it will generate the meter graphic for you.
Otherwise, you plot it by hand. An evening or two of work perhaps.
Yes? No?
Then, it will change as a function of the battery's age and temperature.
Age, I grant you. You'd have to redo the calibration every year or so if
you wanted to keep it up to date.
But temperature? Won't the voltage drop with temperature and show reduced
capacity?
It will still wind up more of a "guess" gauge.
Yes, but is it a better "guess" gauge than an expanded-scale voltmeter?
And remember, you should have an ammeter and a voltmeter anyway. Why not
put them in the same gauge and also get a SOC meter almost for free?
I might just have to give this a try and find out for myself.
I'll have Rudman Regs on my batteries and will use the low-battery alarm
feature to let me know if I'm about to damage a battery, so I don't see
much of a downside.
--
Humanity is acquiring all the right technology for all the wrong
reasons.
-- R. Buckminster Fuller
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Mark Farver wrote:
I'm trying to hack together a "quick and dirty" race performance
graphing app for Woodburn. I've got a 10oz embedded computer that
gathers data from a hairball and a 3 axis accelerometer and then tries
to present that information in some useful format post race via a
built in webserver (ok, its overkill, but I had all the stuff handy)
Otmar sent me a sample DAQ4 dump from the Hairball. I am still looking
for the perfect graphing toolkit for PHP but you can see two example
plots of that data on my website.
http://mindbent.org/farverdaq/
Right now its hardcoded to read Otmar's datafile, but I'll rework it to
a version where you can upload your own when I get the chance.
As another item to ponder... the accelerometer I have outputs
acceleration in three axis'. What is the most logical way to
postprocess this data to figure out vehicle acceleration..
Method 1. Level and square the accelerometer to that one of its
measurement axis is in line with the car's main axis. Discard data from
axis' other than the one oriented along the cars length. Acceleration
with be slightly higher than measured if the car squats or otherwise
changes angle.
Method2. Attempt to sum the acceleration vectors, sensor orientation is
not critical.. but the sensor is also measuring acceleration due to
gravity.. how do you remove its effects? I think you can assume that
gravity will generally be at right angles to the most significant
acceleration vector (since track is flat).. but I'm not sure how to use
that.
If you haven't guessed I was a lousy math/physics student...
Mark Farver
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Weathers wrote:
....
But temperature? Won't the voltage drop with temperature and show
reduced capacity?
Depends on the load. There is something called polarization charge.
If you stomp on accelerator when it's cold, the voltage will drop
but later recover slower than if you do it when it is hot.
This partially has to do with local depletion of the acid near plates,
and it takes longer at low temp ro fresh acid to mix with diluted
layers of it. Depleted acid is more water like (electrically), so
have higher resistance. Thus - higher voltage drop on it at the same load.
The battery just seem "lazy" but the voltage it recovers to is the same.
So if your voltmeter shows 11V this may not mean much - 5 min later
it *may recover to 13V, it's just -20'C outside. But you have no option
to wait at the intersection for 5 min, so all you see is 11V or below
which normally is very dead battery.
And remember, you should have an ammeter and a voltmeter anyway. Why
not put them in the same gauge and also get a SOC meter almost for free?
Because Wattmeter (combination of volt and ammeter) is NOT a SOC meter
either. It is better than voltmeter alone, but cannot be a substitute
for the counter how many Ah are removed.
I might just have to give this a try and find out for myself.
Good idea!
I'll have Rudman Regs on my batteries and will use the low-battery alarm
feature to let me know if I'm about to damage a battery, so I don't see
much of a downside.
Such system will prevent lowest batery damage, but it won't tell
how close you are to that point - there is no tracking of Ah.
Counting them is a key. Counting means keeping history (having memory
how many Ah already spent). Normal gauges react on instant input
conditions, no memory (to memorize integrated over time conditions).
That's the critical difference.
Doug Weathers
Bend, OR, USA
http://learn-something.blogsite.org
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Got it, thanks Joe.
Joe Smalley wrote:
Yes.
Noise immunity.
It won't necessarily be quieter with it grounded or ungrounded in all
installations. Let the user choose to ground it or not ground it depending
on his application.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 4:26 PM
Subject: RS232 isolation question
List,
Does it make much sense to isolate RS232 ground from the car's chassy?
If you think yes, why?
Of course provided, it is isolated from the pack and any hi voltage stuff.
Victor
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Someone just posted a link to S10 on ebay and I wanted to
show how they implemented SOC meter: just tach size
gauge calibrated as full-empty full swing, no numbers at all:
http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/cf/c2/38_12_sb.JPG
So it is relative readout ("exactly 1/2 left") but is is convenient?
1/2 of what? If it shows 1/2 full, how do I know how many miles
can I go?
GM knew it's not posible to calibrate in miles. But counting down
Ah meter (that's what this is) can be very accurate.
All it says: whatever full capacity you had when charged, you have
1/2 of *that* left. Now do your math yourself.
Apparently people have no big trouble to relate position of the
pointer to their usual destinations... or learn fast.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
According to Lee Hart,
> Tony Godshall wrote:
> >> RS-485... Simplest multidrop I could think of.
> >> A standardized protocol can be layered ontop of it.
>
> Victor Tikhonov wrote:
> > It is not robust enough for noisy automotive environment.
>
> Victor, the CANbus twisted pair as used in production automobiles is a
> *reduced* noise immunity version of RS-485. RS-485 uses symmetric bus
> drivers that pull both high and low; so it is fully differential and has
> the same impedance in both states. CANbus went to single-ended drivers
> with one active and one passive state to save cost.
>
> The advertised "high noise immunity" of automotive CANbus is done in
> software; by having more error checking and resending of damaged data.
Victor,
>From your other messages it seems you are wanting to do
rs232.
rs485 is better for the reasons Lee mentioned and is
multidrop. The only extra expense is running two wires, but
it's worth it to isolate signal from power. In fact using a
differential signal not only isolates from noise but also
makes questions like the one in your other message
(grounding) moot.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
All,
My '95 Jeep Cherokee has a selectable display in the overhead area between
the driver and passenger. One of the displays is a "miles left to go"
indicator. As I consume fuel at a lower or higher than nominal rate, the
meter indicates less or more miles to go before empty. It's obviously based
on the remaining fuel in the tank and the per shot setting of the injectors.
Anybody see a glaring reason why something like that could not be
implemented?
Bruce
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Victor Tikhonov
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:07 PM
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: S10's SOC meter
Someone just posted a link to S10 on ebay and I wanted to
show how they implemented SOC meter: just tach size
gauge calibrated as full-empty full swing, no numbers at all:
http://i15.ebayimg.com/04/i/04/cf/c2/38_12_sb.JPG
So it is relative readout ("exactly 1/2 left") but is is convenient?
1/2 of what? If it shows 1/2 full, how do I know how many miles
can I go?
GM knew it's not posible to calibrate in miles. But counting down
Ah meter (that's what this is) can be very accurate.
All it says: whatever full capacity you had when charged, you have
1/2 of *that* left. Now do your math yourself.
Apparently people have no big trouble to relate position of the
pointer to their usual destinations... or learn fast.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
From: Eric Poulsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
To: ev@listproc.sjsu.edu
Subject: Re: adapter plate business...
Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2005 11:09:47 -0700
I think schematics for Curtis
controllers are easily found.
Eric - I would like a schematic for a Curtis ( 1221C) , but haven't been
able to find it (on line, at least).
Can you post a link to it ? It's not in the user's manual. Or, can it be
ordered direct from Curtis?
Thanks, Phil
_________________________________________________________________
Dont just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search!
http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Was that sarcasm?
It starts out saying they couldn't replicate the results, like they're
debunking it... then claim it needs a 6.4 hp diesel engine rather than
the 5 hp in the plans and then it gets 129 mpg in urban driving at up to
45 mph.
Danny
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Ahh, now those are much more believable figures.
Thanks for the link.
Here is the follow-up article...
http://www.motherearthnews.com/top_articles/1980_September_October/Mother_s_Own_Hybrid_Car_
Danny Miller wrote:
Anybody know the drag coefficient and rolling drag of that Opel? We
could calculate just how fast 5 hp would take you... in reality only a
portion of that hp will not make it to the wheels in such a setup
either.
Not only does it brag of 75 mph, inside the article it mentions a 90
mph top speed. My question is, just how steep of a hill was it going
down at the time?
Danny
Peter VanDerWal wrote:
Larence,
That vehicle has been debunked numerous times. I believe even Mother
Earth printed a statement indicating that they could NOT duplicate the
authors claims.
The controller doesn't work as described, and a 5hp lawnmower engine
isn't
anywhere near big enough to power that vehicle at highway speeds.
I doubt it could go 75 miles (at highway speeds) on a gallon of gas an
a
full battery pack.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Here is the message from Stanford. LR..........
----- Original Message -----
From: Ad Shelton
To: Lawrence Rhodes
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 12:07 PM
Subject: Re: 2000 mile range car?
Hi Lawrence,
Unfortunately we stopped work on the long range vehicle about 1.5 years ago,
and instead began constructing the newest solarcar which raced (and won)
this past summer in the North American solar Challenge (
www.americansolarchallenge.org). You can read about that project on our
website if your interested at http://solarcar.stanford.edu
Addison Shelton
Stanford University '05
Mechanical Engineering
On 8/29/05, Lawrence Rhodes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
How is the project going? Any recient developments? I'd like to report
to
the ev list on your progress. Any pictures of the vehicle? Thank you.
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
Addison Shelton
Stanford University
Mechanical Engineering '05
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
At least in EU most of the crash test are only simulated with powerful
computer software. Only friction of the actual crash tests are actually
done in real life.
Have no idea how in USA it is being done. Unfortunately I think Victor
is quite right on the GM thing....
-Jukka
Victor Tikhonov wrote:
I'm afraid there is no measurable objective requirements.
You'd need to crash test with dummies, and the team of expert inspectors
will inspect the degree of damage, gepth of crump zones, etc.
If they see (judgement call) that the damage is too extensive,
you don't pass.
So this is the key: if they don't want EV to succeed, they may keep
telling Rick that the Tango didn't pass no matter what, even if actual
damage of a car and dummy is less than that in flimsy GEO.
Just because Commutercars is not GM.
Sam Harper wrote:
So, hypothetically, if I came out with a vehicle design and prototype
today, what would I have to do to get it approved by the DOT? Under
what quantity do I not have to get it approved by the DOT? What are
the requirements? Seatbelts? Airbags? Center labeling?
-Sam
--
Jukka Järvinen
R&D Director
Oy Finnish Electric Vehicle Technologies Ltd
Sepänkatu 3
11710 RIIHIMÄKI
FINLAND
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Puh./Fax. +358 19 735 705
GSM +358 440 735 705
www.fevt.com
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--- Begin Message ---
Yes, I have it on an audio CD and will try to post it to my website
tonight.
Please let us know where on the site it will be put. Thanks. Lawrence
Rhodes...
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It would work if you talked about all forms of electric motivation from
scooters to trains(that includes barstools & couches). If you had NPR
support that would be great. The tappet bros started on their local
station. You might also talk about alternative energy. I think it'd be a
winner. LR....
----- Original Message -----
From: "Roderick Wilde" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 9:38 AM
Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
Hey John, Maybe we should start our own radio talk show where people call
in with questions about their electric cars. We could name it " EV Talk"
with Arc and Flash, the two Sparky brothers :-) "Don't do wheel stands
like brother Arc and don't plasma ball your motor like brother Flash." :-)
Roderick Wilde
"Suck Amps EV Racing"
www.suckamps.com
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Wayland" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 8:08 AM
Subject: Re: John Wayland does Radio Talk Show
Hello to All,
Roderick Wilde wrote:
I just got a call from my friend and fellow Amphead John Wayland. He
played me a recording of a conservative talk show he called into and
blew the hosts mind about performance EVs.
John Westlund wrote:
Anyone happen to have a clip of this call-in? I'd like to
hear the reaction of the radio host to this. :-)
Yes, I have it on an audio CD and will try to post it to my website
tonight. In Portland there's a company called Moba Media that
automatically records pretty much every radio and TV channel receivable
all day and all night long. You can call them up to three months after a
broadcast and get either audio or video from them for a fair
price...cool! I've used them over the years to get copies of stuff I've
done. After the very impromtue radio thing, I had Moba take care of it
for me and bill it to my account, then let the CD sit there for two weeks
before finally taking the time to go over and pick it up.
As usual, there's a funny story attached to this. I really don't plan
these things that happen to me...really, they just 'happen'.
OK.....I was driving down the freeway in my clattering diesel work
service truck, a cab-over Isuzu where the large 5.2 L turbo four pounds
away right under your butt as you roll along in a 14,000 lb. box on
wheels. I'm in the morning rush hour traffic on the I-84 and am on my way
to an industrial dairy at Swan Island to do forklift wrenching, when I
decide to click on one of my favorite talk shows 'The Lars Larsen Show'.
I like to get a balance of liberal and conservative views, and so listen
to all sorts of talk radio if I'm getting windshield time in the truck,
and KXL radio is my choice for the conservative slant on things. On this
day, representative Jeff Kruptt is standing in for Lars, and as I turn on
the radio I catch the tail end of a conversation about the neighboring
city west of Portland, Hillsboro, and how the city is switching over to
hybrids for their detectives and officers to use. Most of what I hear is
negative comments from obviously ill-informed officers, most of whom
haven't yet experienced the likes of bigger hybrids like the Accord V6
that gets up to 37 mpg and yet accelerates to 60 a full 2 seconds sooner
than the Ford Crown Victoria V8 that these same officers feels has the
'power' they need to catch bad guys. They talk of 'dinky' weird cars with
no trunk space for weapons and such, even thought the Accord has a
roomier trunk than the Ford. I'm hearing about how the hybrids are a bad
idea because they must be s-l-o-w like all alternative fueled vehicles
are. As I listen, I hear an uneducated attitude as the hybrid bashing
continues. A caller or two makes good points about their experiences with
their hybrids, but the same negative spin from law enforcement types who
speculate that the hybrids won't work for anything because of lack of
power, keeps creeping in....something has to be done!
I'm thinking, why bother calling? I'm in a noisy work truck, I'm in
traffic, I've got work to do, I've got a less than stellar cell phone,
I'm pulling off the freeway and heading into the drop-out zone of the
lower river section near the island, and even if I call in and can get
through the usual busy signal (it's a very popular show that covers the
entires Pacific NW area) I'll bee put on hold and in the cue for at least
45 minutes.....and, there's the added fact that the parts guys back at
the work office listen to the same show and their radio can be heard
around the nearby cubicals...yeah, that would be good for my superiors to
hear, Wayland jabbering on about stuff on the radio instead of working!
Nonetheless, I'm compelled to dial up the radio station, and so I do it.
Ring...ring....ring...c-click "KXL, you've called the Lars Larsen Show.
What topic are you calling about? Where are you calling from? Why should
Jeff want to hear from you?"
As I tell her that the host has got it all wrong and spout out what must
have hit the right 'hot buttons', she puts me on hold...then I hear the
broadcast over my phone and can hear Jeff about to go to his next
call-in. I'm expecting that I'll be on hold like this for maybe a half
hour or so, and am prepared to hang up as I'm just 5 minutes away from my
customer location, but within maybe 20 seconds of being put on hold I
hear Jeff say, "Let's go to John in Portland"..... seems I was put at the
top of the call-in list! Now I'm in a panic as I'm trying to close the
windows, shut the overhead bee catcher, pull off to the shoulder
somewhere, and shut down the incessant Diesel noise maker.
I barely get stopped when I'm suddenly on the air! I won't go into the
meat of what we talked about, but let it suffice to say that it went very
well, and once I mentioned 'fast EVs' things shifted into high gear! I
even got to give my web page URL. I got a plug in for the Friday night
drags, too. About 45 minutes after my intervue when returning from a
commercial break, evidently Jeff and his crew had perused the Plasma Boy
Racing site, as he gave quite a glowing review and slowly and clearly
told his audience that they just had to go to the site...he even had the
stats of White Zombie correct.
So tell me, what are the odds of this? Immediately after I get off the
radio interview about alternatives to gasoline use, and as I pull back
onto the road, the guy in front of me in his pickup stalls out and rolls
back towards my service truck behind him. I turn on my flashers and give
him space to backwards roll off onto the shoulder where I had just
been....seems he just ran out of gas!!! He's all embarrassed as he tells
me he thought he could make it to a service station, and how he's never
ran out of gas before. I opened the back of my service truck and handed
him a gas can filled with gas that I keep for the air compressor on
board....it was his lucky day.
You know, with material like this, I'll never run out of stories.
That night, Mark Farver called to tell me we had over 5800 page hits
during the hour of my radio interview! I'll try my hand at sending up an
audio track to the web page tonight so I can share this with everyone.
I think it was a pretty good interview, but screwed up when I said there
was video showing my car beating a Viper. I was thinking about the
'Mustang race' video but at the same time was seeing pictures in my head
of my car pulling away from a Viper at Woodburn most of the way down the
Woodburn track, plus, I was thinking of Rod's Mazda running in videos
against a Viper, and in all the excitement and adrenalin rush of being on
live radio, I somehow morphed the Zombie vs the Mustang race into a video
of my car racing a Viper ...oh well, I'm not perfect. I 'would' like to
find out who's got that video footage of my car taking care of that Viper
in the 1/8 mile someday, as it would be a nice addition to the video
section of the web page. Had it not been for a bad battery that let go on
that run, the Zombie may have indeed, taken the Viper that ran a low 13
on that day.
See Ya... John 'Plasma Boy' Wayland
http://plasmaboyracing.com
--
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Tony Godshall wrote:
Victor,
From your other messages it seems you are wanting to do
rs232.
Don't confuse - I want to provide RS232 data output you can
plug your older laptop into and capture/download stored data.
I don't use (and don't suggest to use) RS232 for
inter-modules connections in the vehicle, it will not work.
I use CAN as the most robust solution suitable for EVision.
rs485 is better for the reasons Lee mentioned and is
multidrop.
You're talking from the computer point of view.
I don't intent people "dropping" something inside my
hardware. Also RS485 is not EV OEMs use - Siemens
and MES inverters, BRUSA chargers all use CAN, none use
"better" RS485. I think they have good reasons for that.
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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--- Begin Message ---
Does anyone have an idea (guess) of how many motors
and controllers are sold a year for the on road hobby
market?
Just curious.
--- Mark McCurdy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> at the bottom...
>
> Business For Sale all or part Description:
> My wife and I have decided that it is time to
> explore the opportunity of
> retirement. We are looking to sell the Electric
> Vehicle Components Section
> of this business. Please contact us for more
> information.
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ryan Stotts" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <ev@listproc.sjsu.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 1:02 PM
> Subject: Cloud Electric now hiring
>
>
> > Business must be booming?
> >
> > http://www.cloudelectric.com/jobopenings.html
> >
> >
> > * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
*
> * * * *
> * ---REMAINDER OF MESSAGE TRUNCATED---
> *
> * This post contains a forbidden message format
> *
> * (such as an attached file, a v-card, HTML
> formatting) *
> * Lists at sjsu.edu only accept PLAIN TEXT
> *
> * If your postings display this message your mail
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____________________________________________________
Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page
http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs
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I have the new XMB Xantrex Battery Monitor.
I looked all over for Lee Harts prescaler circuit
(checked archives etc).
I wonder if this would even work with the newer meter?
Has anybody tried there own prescaler with the XMB?
Thanks,
Rod
--- Rod Hower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I have a Xantrex 9-35Vdc Emeter that I want to use
> on
> a 12*13= 156Vdc nominal, 215Vdc max during charge
> battery pack on a Sparrow.
> The manual calls out a part # 854-2018-01 voltage
> prescaler but does not mention input voltage.
> I'm guessing the prescaler is just a resistor in
> line
> with the battery + line.
> Any ideas on what I should use for a 156Vdc nominal
> pack?
> Thanks,
> Rod
>
>
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--- Begin Message ---
Philip Marino wrote:
>I would like a schematic for a Curtis ( 1221C) , but haven't been
> able to find it (on line, at least).
Is this of any help?
http://cafeelectric.com/curtis/index.html
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