EV Digest 4645
Topics covered in this issue include:
1) RE: Adapter plate buisness - dimensioning
by Jeff Shanab <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
2) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
3) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
4) Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
5) RE: Steves Mower, was, 2000 mile range EV?
by Tim Humphrey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
6) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
7) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
8) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
9) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
10) Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by "EVdave" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
11) hybrid workshop 9/9 Tues 6:30-9pm RSVP toyotasunnyvale.com
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
12) Re: hybrid workshop 9/9 Tues 6:30-9pm RSVP toyotasunnyvale.com
by bruce parmenter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
13) Re: Kelvin connection
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
14) RE: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by "damon henry" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
15) RE: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
16) Re: adapter plate business...
by "Philippe Borges" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
17) Re: Buses talk...
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
18) Re: Thundersky Batteries
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
19) Re: AGM's, Gells, sealed batts, oh my
by Lee Hart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
20) Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
21) RE: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by "Don Cameron" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
22) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Victor Tikhonov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
23) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
24) Re: Best method. 50% / 30 sec CC (was: Correct AGM finish charge)
by Rich Rudman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
25) Re: e-meter type gadget wish list wanted
by Neon John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
26) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Ralph Merwin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
27) Re: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
by Mark Hastings <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
28) Re: Kelvin connection
by "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Begin Message ---
I really didn't mean for that drawing to be an example of why it is good
to be open about the patterns but there it is!.
Thanks, you are correct, a 12" bolt circle.
P.S. Those bolts have nothing to do with the nissan's pattern they are
where I mounted my motor bell. I need to create a drawing that is just
the pattern so people don't need to decipher the patern from it.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Woops! I got a bit ahead of myself and misremembered the RS-422 specs.
The page is worth reading, but it doesn't support my conclusion. Sorry!
Mike
On Wed, Aug 31, 2005 at 09:22:54AM -0400, M Bianchi wrote:
> Lee Hart worte:
> > If I were to rank buses for suitability in an EV, I'd say
> >
> > SPI worst
> > RS-232 bad
> > RS-485 good
> > CAN better (because software adds error detection and correction)
> > EVILbus best
>
> I would toss into the mix RS-422 and RS-423, which use differential drivers,
> and I would guess to be close to the EVILbus in noise immunity. (I've been
> lurking on this discussion; never built my own network electronics.) See:
> http://www.rs485.com/rs485spec.html
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Lee Hart worte:
> If I were to rank buses for suitability in an EV, I'd say
>
> SPI worst
> RS-232 bad
> RS-485 good
> CAN better (because software adds error detection and correction)
> EVILbus best
I would toss into the mix RS-422 and RS-423, which use differential drivers,
and I would guess to be close to the EVILbus in noise immunity. (I've been
lurking on this discussion; never built my own network electronics.) See:
http://www.rs485.com/rs485spec.html
--
Mike Bianchi
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
It seems recently that ICE vehicles are taking off faster and faster when
pulling away from stop signs/red lights when I drive my little EV pickup.
If I drive my old toyota van and slowly pull away it doesn't seem like a
problem, and even with the pedal on the floor my EV can out accellerate my van.
Maybe I'm just being sensitive but I think that big electric vehicle sign on
the back is a challenge for these people. Maybe I'll tape over it for a week
and see if that helps. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm working on an EV
motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I certainly want my EV
motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in acceleration up to a reasonable
speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Steve wrote;
yes , with my lawn mower project I will need alot of wh to cut just one yard
like 2100wh ( I did find that by going slower I could cut this in half )
and I am thinking of 4 yards per charge 8kwh needs about 12 golf cart
batts over 700 lbs , wooooo this is why I have to go with the Li to make it
work , as 200 lbs will be ok but 700 won't .
>
>
>
Steve;
My Elec-trak, like most others, has 6 golf cart batteries, it will cut almost 2
acres on a single charge, probably more with a well manicured lawn. Do you use
Gator Blades, we've noticed they use almost twice the power as standard lift
non-mulching blades.
My ET weighs 1275 lbs with me on it. Are you sure you can't use the heavier
batt pack?? Why are you concerned with weight? I understand your machine is a
ZTR and the extra weight might be an issue, if you do the back and forth
mowing. If tyhat's the case though I would strongly suggest dumping the hydro
drive and go direct drive with two sepex motors, to take full advantage of the
stop and go regenerability (oooh, a new word, makes me feel kind of
Wayland-esque).
Stay Charged!
Hump
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
yes, i recently got my first EV and ive noticed the same thing..... mine
has "electric vehicle" on the back, so im thinking of taking it off......
i have yet to tell one person about my truck that doesnt come back with a
laugh...... so to be a smarty, i usually reply with, "im tired of supporting
the saudi's table" or while they are still laughing, "yea, now you know
exactly what goes thru my head when i see you paying 3 bucks a gallon."
yea, i know the first one isnt exactly PC but what can i say.......
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
It seems recently that ICE vehicles are taking off faster and faster when
pulling away from stop signs/red lights when I drive my little EV pickup.
If I drive my old toyota van and slowly pull away it doesn't seem like a
problem, and even with the pedal on the floor my EV can out accellerate my
van. Maybe I'm just being sensitive but I think that big electric vehicle
sign on the back is a challenge for these people. Maybe I'll tape over it
for a week and see if that helps. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm
working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I did get concerned when a huge F350 that was jacked up with 30+ inch wheels
was honking at me this morning because going 55 on a 45mph road I was going in
slow motion. Apprantly I had only lost a hub cap so now I a missing both rears
instead of just one side.
Someone at work suggested a sign that said
"My 25 mile commute costs $1.00 in electricity and $0 in gas" and a similar one
with obviously lower $ for my motorcycle when it is on the road. I figured that
would just be asking for trouble here in north texas.
EVdave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
yes, i recently got my first EV and ive noticed the same thing..... mine
has "electric vehicle" on the back, so im thinking of taking it off......
i have yet to tell one person about my truck that doesnt come back with a
laugh...... so to be a smarty, i usually reply with, "im tired of supporting
the saudi's table" or while they are still laughing, "yea, now you know
exactly what goes thru my head when i see you paying 3 bucks a gallon."
yea, i know the first one isnt exactly PC but what can i say.......
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
> It seems recently that ICE vehicles are taking off faster and faster when
> pulling away from stop signs/red lights when I drive my little EV pickup.
> If I drive my old toyota van and slowly pull away it doesn't seem like a
> problem, and even with the pedal on the floor my EV can out accellerate my
> van. Maybe I'm just being sensitive but I think that big electric vehicle
> sign on the back is a challenge for these people. Maybe I'll tape over it
> for a week and see if that helps. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm
> working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
> certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
> acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
$1???? wow.... look into off peak electric service..... cost for me near
philly is 4.9cents per kilowatt hr.... might beable to cut your costs in
half..... :)
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
I did get concerned when a huge F350 that was jacked up with 30+ inch
wheels was honking at me this morning because going 55 on a 45mph road I
was going in slow motion. Apprantly I had only lost a hub cap so now I a
missing both rears instead of just one side.
Someone at work suggested a sign that said
"My 25 mile commute costs $1.00 in electricity and $0 in gas" and a
similar one with obviously lower $ for my motorcycle when it is on the
road. I figured that would just be asking for trouble here in north texas.
EVdave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
yes, i recently got my first EV and ive noticed the same thing..... mine
has "electric vehicle" on the back, so im thinking of taking it off......
i have yet to tell one person about my truck that doesnt come back with a
laugh...... so to be a smarty, i usually reply with, "im tired of
supporting
the saudi's table" or while they are still laughing, "yea, now you know
exactly what goes thru my head when i see you paying 3 bucks a gallon."
yea, i know the first one isnt exactly PC but what can i say.......
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
It seems recently that ICE vehicles are taking off faster and faster when
pulling away from stop signs/red lights when I drive my little EV pickup.
If I drive my old toyota van and slowly pull away it doesn't seem like a
problem, and even with the pedal on the floor my EV can out accellerate
my
van. Maybe I'm just being sensitive but I think that big electric vehicle
sign on the back is a challenge for these people. Maybe I'll tape over it
for a week and see if that helps. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm
working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Hello everybody:
I don't know what part of the country y'all from, but I have a totally
different experience. People here in South-Texas are all interested in my
old Nissan E-truck, are helping me to get parts for my electric stuff even
starting to consider to convert a car themselves.
mm.
> yes, i recently got my first EV and ive noticed the same thing..... mine
> has "electric vehicle" on the back, so im thinking of taking it off......
>
> i have yet to tell one person about my truck that doesnt come back with a
> laugh...... so to be a smarty, i usually reply with, "im tired of
> supporting
> the saudi's table" or while they are still laughing, "yea, now you know
> exactly what goes thru my head when i see you paying 3 bucks a gallon."
>
> yea, i know the first one isnt exactly PC but what can i say.......
>
> db
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[email protected]>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:30 AM
> Subject: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
>
>
>> It seems recently that ICE vehicles are taking off faster and faster
>> when
>> pulling away from stop signs/red lights when I drive my little EV
>> pickup.
>> If I drive my old toyota van and slowly pull away it doesn't seem like a
>> problem, and even with the pedal on the floor my EV can out accellerate
>> my
>> van. Maybe I'm just being sensitive but I think that big electric
>> vehicle
>> sign on the back is a challenge for these people. Maybe I'll tape over
>> it
>> for a week and see if that helps. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm
>> working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
>> certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
>> acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
>>
>>
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
oh, same here, in fact, both jobs i work at have installed outlets for me to
plug into while im at work.... i think the closest Magnecharger is 2000
miles away...hehehe.... anyway..... we're talking about INITIAL reactions,
people afraid to get "caught" behind an electric vehicle. people who assume
the top speed is that of a golf cart, people who resist change, people who
accept Detroit's answer that EV doesnt work.
my mechanic and my brother both asked me how drunk i was when i let someone
sell me my truck.... then, they took it for a ride..... now, they are adding
mileage to it when im not looking.... and asking me to bring it over to
show others..... go figure..
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michaela Merz" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:36 AM
Subject: Re: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
Hello everybody:
I don't know what part of the country y'all from, but I have a totally
different experience. People here in South-Texas are all interested in my
old Nissan E-truck, are helping me to get parts for my electric stuff even
starting to consider to convert a car themselves.
mm.
yes, i recently got my first EV and ive noticed the same thing.....
mine
has "electric vehicle" on the back, so im thinking of taking it off......
i have yet to tell one person about my truck that doesnt come back with a
laugh...... so to be a smarty, i usually reply with, "im tired of
supporting
the saudi's table" or while they are still laughing, "yea, now you know
exactly what goes thru my head when i see you paying 3 bucks a gallon."
yea, i know the first one isnt exactly PC but what can i say.......
db
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Hastings" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 10:30 AM
Subject: Losing at stop sign takeoffs in my EV.
It seems recently that ICE vehicles are taking off faster and faster
when
pulling away from stop signs/red lights when I drive my little EV
pickup.
If I drive my old toyota van and slowly pull away it doesn't seem like a
problem, and even with the pedal on the floor my EV can out accellerate
my
van. Maybe I'm just being sensitive but I think that big electric
vehicle
sign on the back is a challenge for these people. Maybe I'll tape over
it
for a week and see if that helps. Has anyone else noticed this? I'm
working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
-[edited from Highlander group]
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Fri Jul 29, 2005 2:38 pm
Subject: Prius-Hybrid workshop in Sunnyvale, Tuesday, August 9,
2005
Due to popular demand, Sunnyvale Toyota is holding another Prius/
Highlander Hybrid workshop for anybody interested in this
technology. [Besides] their technical staff, they will have Mario
Jaime, TMS Technical Supervisor from Toyota there.
I have attended two workshops so far, and both where very
informative. They setup their service department with chairs,
cars, and demo parts (such as batteries, planetary gears,
electronics etc).
After a short intro, it is mostly questions and answers, with
plenty of time left for [one-on-one discussions] with the technical
staff, and a detailed look into the actual hardware.
Since they also provide a small snack and drinks, and seating is
limited, they would like you to drop them an email if you want to
attend.
I am personally hoping to get more info on the actual workings of
the Hybrid Highlander 4WD system as well as long-term maintenance
on my Prius (how do I know my HV battery is still OK?).
Prius/Highlander Hybrid workshop
When: Tuesday, August 9, 2005 6:30 PM-9:00 PM
Where: Toyota Sunnyvale, 898 W. El Camino Real, Sunnyvale, CA
RSVP: Stefanie at 408-716-1881 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
[map
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?addr=898+W+El+Camino+Real&csz=94087
]
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
This could be a good opportunity for people thinking of converting
a Highlander to an EV to gain the information they will need. If
a Prius can be converted to an EV, so can all the other hybrids.
Perhaps EVrs in other parts ofhte country could encourage their
local hybrid dealer to hold a similar workshop (?).
Bruce {EVangel} Parmenter
' ____
~/__|o\__
'@----- @'---(=
. http://geocities.com/brucedp/
. EV List Editor, RE & AFV newswires
. (originator of the above ASCII art)
===== Undo Petroleum Everywhere
__________________________________________________
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
geez Lawrence you just don't like doing things the easy way.
I still have a box of your abused mark 2 and one regs. The kelvin concoction
setup described in the 11 page manifesto is hard to pull off but simple in
concept.
The regs need to be close to the battery to protect them and to have the local
temp compensation actually do anything meaningfully for the battery.
The point is to keep any current from flowing in the kelvin wires and all the
current that does flow in the main larger wires.
The new crop of Mk2B regs don't dissipate that much current as the old Mk1
Loadless Regs could. If you need to blow off 100 of watts of power, you really
need to pay some attention to the charger.... Like set it for the voltage you
need , not just tame the charger with 100+ watt regs.
I have very little fun or motivation in rebuilding your reg stack a couple times
a year.
Lawrence on a Kelvin Reg net...... I need a stiff drink and it's not even close
to noon here......
Madman
Lawrence Rhodes wrote:
> I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire. 8 feet
> or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them under the
> hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach everything
> to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through and even
> melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
> Lawrence Rhodes
> Bassoon/Contrabassoon
> Reedmaker
> Book 4/5 doubler
> Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
> 415-821-3519
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I'm working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
Then you will need either a big amp controller, a transmission, or a low top
speed. With a 14-41 gear ratio my motorcycle tops out at 60mph but only
accelerates as well as an average car. Most V6 type autos would not have a
hard time beating me off the line if that is what they are trying to do. I
have no problem at all keeping up with normal traffic, but I'm not a rocket
off the line. I have a 400amp controller.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
I am planning on series/parralel on the motor side to get some low speed grunt.
I don't think that will be enough so I think I just have to disguise it as one
of those big scooter motorcycles and hide the electric part or at least not
advertise it to people behind me. If I didn't already have the parts I'd
probably go with a bigger motor, higher voltage and higher amp controller but
like I said I already have my 48volt components.
Right now high end infinities and those big SUVs are literally flooring it next
to my pickup. Had a mustang actually leave rubber on the road last night from a
stoplight.
damon henry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm working on an EV motorcycle so I don't think I'll upgrade my truck but I
certainly want my EV motorcycle to easily match any of these ICE in
acceleration up to a reasonable speed.
Then you will need either a big amp controller, a transmission, or a low top
speed. With a 14-41 gear ratio my motorcycle tops out at 60mph but only
accelerates as well as an average car. Most V6 type autos would not have a
hard time beating me off the line if that is what they are trying to do. I
have no problem at all keeping up with normal traffic, but I'm not a rocket
off the line. I have a 400amp controller.
damon
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
For me its just a question of time:
-first guy making the car tranny plans are free for EV community.
(everyone on this list share nowledge and tips, is it honnest puting a cost
on this information, design, experience sharing ? and major part of ours
individuals mistakes had costed money...on this list no business for
advise/tips other wise we will have to send money back in case of bad
design/tips/advise :^)
-both are making the care at same time, they agree each other "half'ing" the
cost or if there is lots of people dividing price by people number..
just my inch of 6061-T6
cordialement,
Philippe
Et si le pot d'échappement sortait au centre du volant ?
quel carburant choisiriez-vous ?
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr
Forum de discussion sur les véhicules électriques
http://vehiculeselectriques.free.fr/Forum/index.php
----- Original Message -----
From: "Victor Tikhonov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 2:58 AM
Subject: Re: adapter plate business...
> It's not about me, so I can't "give someone a break".
>
> It's about two guys (I don't know friends or not, I
> don't know them, and they are not on the list)
> wanting to do simialr cars and needing the dimensions.
>
> So one is quietly waiting for another to get it (and 100%
> pay for it) to have a free ride. I suspect the first one
> does not realize that and will be paying "for himself"
> since he needs it anyway (only to be approached later...)
>
> According to most of responses, the first one must pay it
> all and "give second one a break" since EVs are already
> expensive enough".
>
> But somehow this still doesn't seem fair.
>
> I'm no judge, and can't suggest anything, just heard
> the story I wanted to pass on.
>
> Dennis Merritt wrote:
> > Neon John speaks the truth... In my opinion... Give the guy a break..
Evs
> > are expensive enuff without someone giving others breaks..
> >
> > REVgards,
> >
> > Dennis Merritt
> > Sacramento
>
>
> --
> Victor
> '91 ACRX - something different
>
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Tony Godshall wrote:
> Don't you hate it when people take vigorous discussion as
> fighting? People are too damn sensitive these days.
Oh yeah? Who says? Put 'em up, I'll show you sensitive! :-)
> RS-232 isn't even good in an office environment compared to
> the alternatives. Have you noticed how few RS-232 devices
> there are now? Even historical inertia can be overcome.
>
> Almost everything these days is RS-422-style balanced pairs-
> RS-485, 10BaseT, 100BaseT, etc. They give you distance and
> noise immunity without excessive power or bulky shielding.
To go faster, you need more power. True for computer buses, and EV
buses!
RS-232 is still around because it is cheap, simple, and low power. For
short cable runs in quiet environments, it still works fine. For
instance, it's reasonable for connecting an E-meter to your laptop.
The alternatives mentioned (RS-485, CAN, 10BaseT, etc.) were all
designed for higher speeds, longer cables, and to work in the presence
of moderate noise levels. But, they all cost more and use more power.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--- End Message ---
--- Begin Message ---
Doug Hartley wrote:
> For a simplified 48V system, I would recommend 4 Interstate DCS-75
> batteries (more Amp-Hrs, lower cost, about the same size as Optimas)
> in parallel with a string of 14 of the 100 Amp-Hr. TS cells. Connect
> the strings in parallel, with a contactor to disconnect the TS
> string when not charging or driving. Charge from one charger set up
> for 48V of AGM batteries. It works well enough with nothing fancier
> than that. I recommend the use of suitable regulators for both
> battery types. This is basically half of what I am doing now with
> a 96V system of 8 Interstate DCS-75 batteries and 28 of the 100
> Amp-Hr. TS cells, so this would be for a small, light EV only.
Doug, are you actually driving with this setup? Or just planning to? My
gut reaction is that this is a little too simple to work well.
You don't have any means to control which set of batteries gets the
current during charging or driving. The two types of batteries have
significantly different characteristics, so it will divide
unpredictably.
As a minimum, I would add some kind of controllable resistor in series
with one of the packs; for instance a big MOSFET with a circuit to
adjust its resistance from 0.001 to 0.1 ohms. Use it in series with the
TS batteries to limit their current. Or, the MOSFET can be turned off
completely as needed (for instance, so the TS won't discharge into the
lead-acids when they are above 57v, their gassing threshold).
A resistor lowers efficiency a bit; but since the current and voltage
across this resistor are never all that high, you're only wasting a few
percent at most. For better efficiency, you can use a PWM controller; a
golf cart controller would be one option.
Lead-acids are better at supplying high peak currents. So it is better
to limit the TS to supply your average load current (with the
resistance, and let the lead-acids supply the peaks. A lead-acid with
very low internal resistance is preferable; Optimas or Orbitals or
Hawkers instead of the Interstates. The Interstate DCS-75 has twice the
internal resistance of the for example, Optima, is heavier, and has less
amphours at the C1 rate we normally use to compare batteries for EV use.
I would be more inclined to use the 200ah TS cells, with a smaller set
of Hawker AGMs. The TS give you the range, and the Hawkers the peak
power for fast accelleration.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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Mark Hanson wrote:
> I bought a Sep-Ex Bombardier with 6ea 12V sealed AGM (I was told)
> batteries enclosed inside the tunnel (no access)... I find it
> industrial strength stupid not to have the tops of the batteries
> accessible even if the are sealed.
I like that phrase :-) Yes, it is short-sighted to seal up batteries
that you know fully well will need periodic maintenance and replacement.
> What is the difference between the various sealed batteries?
Same as floodies; size, price, life, performance... you get what you pay
for.
Sealed batteries come in two basic types; gel and AGM. Gels are
lower-current batteries, not used in EVs unless you can keep the current
down.
AGMs are good for higher currents, and so more commonly used in EVs.
They usually have a shorter life than floodeds, in part because they get
abused more (excessively deep discharges and overcharging).
> I was told (by www.peacockltd.com the now parts supplier for
> Bombardier) that AGM's last the longest, is that true?
The salesman is wrong, of course. :-)
Though, it depends. There are circumstances where AGMs will last longer
than floodeds or gels. If you drive hard and fast (high currents all the
time), and have such a small pack that your range is short (less than an
hour per full charge), then AGMs will last longer.
--
Every act of conscious learning requires the willingness to suffer an
injury to one's self-esteem. That is why young children, before they
are aware of their own self-importance, learn so easily. - Thomas Szasz
--
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
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What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt
have a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short
commutes ?
Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
box..
Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
Anyone using one of these setups now ?
CWarman
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I have wired in "battery warmers" into the base of each battery box (7 units
in all). The intention is to have it plugged in while charging and
thermostatically controlled to bring the batteries up to 25 deg C. The
batteries are not kept warm while driving. Since I usually have the charger
plugged unless driving, I expect the mass of the batteries to be able to
retain the heat for the 30 minute/1 hr drives.
Al Godfrey has used this type of setup successfully on his Porsche.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cwarman
Sent: August 31, 2005 10:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt have
a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short commutes ?
Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
box..
Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
Anyone using one of these setups now ?
CWarman
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Lee Hart wrote:
If I were to rank buses for suitability in an EV, I'd say
SPI worst
RS-232 bad
RS-485 good
CAN better (because software adds error detection and correction)
EVILbus best
With CAN, you can get "canned" chips and software. The others are just
hardware standards; you have to write or find software yourself.
Lee, this comparison is a bit misleading and last paragraph have to be
emphasized:
You built an optoisolated transceiver for a 2 wire bus. This is not
a "bus" RS485, CAN, and many other use twisted pair as a bus,
and EVil bus is no different.
I could connect your optoisolating transceivers to my CAN nodes
and it would be optoisolated CAN network (bus), not EVil bus.
Likewise, RS483 user can connect your transceiver just to gain
isolation, it remains RS485 bus (bits sequence, protocol, etc).
So if you compare physical inteface noise immumity, I trust
EVil bus excels. You can't compare it's power consumption
to other transceiver's without mentioning penalty you paid
to achieve it - just like IGBT gate drivers require amps
to drive fast, transceivers naturally *have* to draw current
if drive fast. If EVil bus would run about 100 times faster
than it currently can (to be the same as CAN), transceivers
would draw far more than 0.5mA per node.
This is by no means to diminish your design, you've solved
difficult problem. I just want people to understand that
you've built a very simple (2 optos + 2 transistors) and
slow bus transceiver, not a complete bus node.
Granted, this is all you needed for Tango.
I think, it is actually good potential building block for
any bus implementations out there to tinker with!
Lee A. Hart, 814 8th Ave N, Sartell MN 56377, leeahart_at_earthlink.net
--
Victor
'91 ACRX - something different
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Hi Don,
Can you explain what you mean by "Battery Warmers" and what exactly this
is. It would seem that one would want these on a thermostat ALL the
time the truck wasnt out on the road correct ?
CWarman
Don Cameron wrote:
I have wired in "battery warmers" into the base of each battery box (7 units
in all). The intention is to have it plugged in while charging and
thermostatically controlled to bring the batteries up to 25 deg C. The
batteries are not kept warm while driving. Since I usually have the charger
plugged unless driving, I expect the mass of the batteries to be able to
retain the heat for the 30 minute/1 hr drives.
Al Godfrey has used this type of setup successfully on his Porsche.
Don
Victoria, BC, Canada
See the New Beetle EV Conversion Web Site at
www.cameronsoftware.com/ev/
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Cwarman
Sent: August 31, 2005 10:04 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Battery Boxes / Heat pad ?
What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt have
a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short commutes ?
Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
box..
Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
Anyone using one of these setups now ?
CWarman
.
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I would simply as John Wayland... whatever he comes up with will be pretty
and absolutely practical.
I intend to have some pictures of his Reg Net when he gets it installed.
I will probably clone it for my own Goldie or Fiero.
Keep in mind John will be implementing "Reg Centered charging" and I will
be checking it and making darn sure it works as advertised.
Keeping the reg buss simple and uncluttered has been a goal of mine... and
it's not easy. But I am trying to make the tools that you need to get the
job done, with as little hassle as possible.
Rich Rudman.
Manzanita Micro
Ryan Stotts wrote:
> Bill Dube wrote:
>
> >Your hesitation to purchase regs tells much of the story.
>
> It's an issue of ~$1,620 plus additional complexity to the system.
> The more simple and clean looking the better.
>
> Lets say for example, the pack in this pic are AGM's:
>
> http://img371.imageshack.us/img371/7932/rearbatteries1wv.jpg
>
> How could a BMS be hooked up in such a way that there wouldn't be a
> spider web of wires running all over that impressive and clean install
> of a pack? Can they be remotely mounted as to be hidden away?
>
> I like how that pack looks and wouldn't want to make it look cluttered
> or messy if it was mine.
>
> That's a VERY impressive install who's ever setup that is. Extremely
> nice. Good job!
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I'd have to put RS-485 at the top of the list. Fast, multi-drop and
practically immune to even awful noise environments. I've deployed
RS-485-based instruments in power houses, induction furnaces and
electric arc furnaces, among other bad environments. The induction
furnace passed several tens of thousands of high frequency amps
through the coupling coil. RS-485 shrugged that off like it wasn't
even there.
I should note (maybe someone already has, I haven't been paying
attention) that RS-485 is strictly a serial hardware spec. Any
error-correction or communications protocol can be added on top.
Though not called out in the spec, the defacto connector spec has
become the RJ45 modular plug just like Ethernet. What could be
easier?
John
On Wed, 31 Aug 2005 09:22:54 -0400, M Bianchi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>Lee Hart worte:
>> If I were to rank buses for suitability in an EV, I'd say
>>
>> SPI worst
>> RS-232 bad
>> RS-485 good
>> CAN better (because software adds error detection and correction)
>> EVILbus best
>
>I would toss into the mix RS-422 and RS-423, which use differential drivers,
>and I would guess to be close to the EVILbus in noise immunity. (I've been
>lurking on this discussion; never built my own network electronics.) See:
> http://www.rs485.com/rs485spec.html
---
John De Armond
See my website for my current email address
http://www.johngsbbq.com
Cleveland, Occupied TN
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I have individual heaters on the bottom of each battery (26 Optima YTs in
13 pairs). The batteries are in boxes with insulation on the bottoms all
year round, and on the sides and tops during the winter. The heaters will
be allowed to run only when the charger is plugged in.
The car is not yet on the road though, so I have no information about how
this setup works. I'm shooting to have it running this weekend, and once
the weather gets cold I'll know how the heaters work.
Ralph
Cwarman writes:
>
> What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt
> have a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short
> commutes ?
>
> Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
> box..
>
> Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
>
> Anyone using one of these setups now ?
>
> CWarman
>
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When in Connecticut I drove my EV to the train station every workday through a
year. It was parked outside even in the blizzards for 14 hours 4 miles from my
house when I had the 72volt rabbit and 10 miles from my house when I had my 144
volt blazer (I lived in different places with the different cars).
When I got home I'd spend time cleaning it off and then just drive em home and
plug it in. I did have a heating pad which ran with the charger to help warm up
the batteries while they sat in the EV outside. Yes there was less range and
yes it was a little slower to get up and go but the range was more then enough
to cover my 4-10 mile ride. If I remember correctly the large mass of the
batteries with just a bit of insulation in the battery box will keep them
somewhat warm for long enough if you drive and charge it most every day.
Cwarman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
What are people doing with thier EV in the winter months, if one doesnt
have a garage and this vehicle is gonna be used each day for short
commutes ?
Ive read about some people that will have a heat blanket in the battery
box..
Does this not have to be on, while the truck is being used ?
Anyone using one of these setups now ?
CWarman
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--- Begin Message ---
My problem isn't burned regs. At least so far. My regs burned through the
plastic with mild heating. I also want to put all the regs on something
more solid anyway. The plastic was 1/16 inch thick. The problem is
running long wires. I want to run 16 gauge wire from my back battery box
under the back seat to the motor compartment. I still don't quite know what
a Kelvin Connection is really. Looking up the defination it says 4 wire
hookup. Lawrence Rhodes
If you read the instructions for the regs you will notice that if any reg
comes on solid, the charger is set too high and needs to be turned DOWN.
To help remind you to do that, you can put a seat belt buzzer or sonalert
on
the external load pins of the first reg to come on. When it blinks, it
makes
a sound and you know your charger is making the reg blink. If it comes on
continuously, turn the charger down.
Once you know how to set the charger, you can remove the noise maker and
be
reasonably confident that the regs won't burn up.
Joe Smalley
Rural Kitsap County WA
Fiesta 48 volts
NEDRA 48 volt street conversion record holder
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- Original Message -----
From: "Lawrence Rhodes" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:02 PM
Subject: Kelvin connection
I want to connect my regs to the batteries in the back of my Aspire. 8
feet
or so. There isn't a good spot in the back anymore. I want them under
the
hood along with my other regs. What is a good material to attach
everything
to. I used plastic last time and the external loads melted through and
even
melted into one battery. The REG ABUSER. Lawrence Rhodes.......
Lawrence Rhodes
Bassoon/Contrabassoon
Reedmaker
Book 4/5 doubler
Electric Vehicle & Solar Power Advocate
415-821-3519
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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